Jackie Hering: Hey everyone, and welcome to this episode of the Women's Race Podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Herring. If this is your first time here, I want to wish you a big welcome and thank you for tuning in. Today we have a very special guest, my friend Paula Finley. She is fresh off her very first Iron Man at Lake Placid, where she won in very dominating and amazing fashion, as she does. She's very talented. I love chatting with her. And I'm really excited to share this chat with you guys. Make sure you hit that subscribe button wherever you are listening so you can hear all the rest of the episodes. In this podcast, I interview other pro triathletes and we tell their stories, we talk through races, and really the point of this podcast is to just put more of a spotlight on women in professional triathlon racing. So if that's something you're interested in, I hope that you will stay with me and listen to some more episodes here on the Women's Race Podcast. Let's get into today's episode and have a listen to Paula Finley. Yeah. hey guys. We are here for a very extra special episode on the Women's Race podcast. Our first guest, Paula Finley, our first returning guest. She was the very first guest, and now she's returning. And this time she's returning as an Iron Man champion. And collectively we're quite proud. And when you paula: Yeah. Jackie Hering: Rung that little bell in the finishing shoot. We were all crying. Everybody watching. It was like the most special moment. So everybody has a lot of questions and we're also very proud of you. So good job. Yay. paula: Thank you. Thanks for having me back, Jackie. I I was so pumped when you were starting this up to be your first guest ever. And it's gotten so popular. I'm so proud of you. I think you've had amazing conversations with so many women and women that I don't really hear from ever. You know, I know them, but it's cool to like see behind the curtain. So good job. I'm glad it's going well, and thanks for having me back. Jackie Hering: well I was worried I knew you were gonna crush it. So I like last week I remember sending you a text that was like, Okay, when you go smash it, promise me you will save space for this chat 'cause you're gonna be everyone's gonna want a piece of pollen now. paula: Well No, I I figured no matter how the race unfolded, I would have some interesting insights of how it went, you know, whether it went poorly or well. So I'm happy to be back. Yeah, talk about it a little bit. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I submitted a little poll asking what people wanted to ask you. And I can say collectively, we all have a million questions was pretty much the summary. There were so many questions. And I know you recorded your TTL pod today, so we're gonna try to cover fresh stuff on here best we can. But most of all, I guess the first question is. You did your first Iron Man. how did it compare to what you expected it would be? paula: I tried to go in with no expectations, but it went better than I thought I would enjoy it. Like every time I did a half, I would finish and think, there's no way I could do that twice. Iron Man is insane. I don't want to do one. But when you're going into an Iron Man, your mentality is so different that you expect the distance, you expect it to feel long, and therefore it didn't feel that bad. So I went in with a plan of like some pacing and some nutrition strategies and like How do I get make this the best experience possible? And I feel like it unfolded pretty smoothly. I didn't really have any super dark moments. I didn't really have any unexpected obstacles. so I liked it more than I thought I would. I, you know, I've you and Jackie or you and Holly last year when it was raining in Lake Placid, did not enjoy it. So I was worried I'd have a similar experience, but I think I picked the right course for me. Placid is awesome, as you know. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: Great town, good volunteers, and I brought a good field. So yeah, it turned out to be a awesome day. And I would like I it's not like I finished and thought I'm never doing that again. So I guess that's a good thing. Jackie Hering: Yeah, that's a huge win. to finish an Iron Man and feel that is a good sign. I think, you know, you were saying a lot of things beforehand. And of course, there's always nerves about the unknown, but you know, you kept saying, I've been training for this my whole life. And in some of the the times we talked, you were commenting how much lower the power was. So it felt a lot easier. And I think It seemed like you had a nice mindset about it that you were setting your expectations correctly. you were just like accepting that the training was what it was. You weren't trying to like overdo it and think you're gonna do your 70.3 watts. So you went in with a good plan. you executed the plan. Lisa Bacharis would like to know your exact watts. She told me to ask you maybe you can say it more broadly, how much lower your Iron Man watts compare to your seventy point three watts? You don't have to say what they were. paula: it was like twenty watts lower. Jackie Hering: That's impressive. That's good. paula: Yeah, I thought it was good. I mean, I after the first lap, I was like, this is actually okay power for a seventy point three. And same thing on the half marathon. I was like, first half marathon, I'm like, this isn't that different than I do for a half, but for some I think I was riding really fast and efficiently and The course suited me. I climb really well and I can descend pretty well now. So yeah, we were like kilometers per hour, which I have as an average on my screen, was pretty high after the first lap, and then the average power as well. So I tried not to look too much. I mean, I looked at the power to kind of have a ceiling because my coach told me, like, don't ride too much over 260, 270 ever. Even if you're at the top of a hill, you're climbing, like you don't want to have these spikes out of corners, or you know, that just zaps your legs for later. And the nature of racing with race. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: Ranger and other athletes and passing age group versus I did do a lot of the spikes that were really high. So maybe next time I need to control that a bit. But yeah, I w I don't wanna say the the average power, but I mean it was it was exactly twenty watts less. Yeah. Jackie Hering: That's fine. All right, there you go, Lisa. so you stuck paula: I think Lisa would be good at it. Jackie Hering: I think she, like you, you know, you were, I think, concerned about how you would hold up training for the run. And then also like the actual marathon itself. but it seemed like you built really smart and conservatively this year, and therefore your body was able to stay healthy and handle it. And then during the race, like, how did it feel to run a marathon? paula: Yeah, yeah. It was as expected on the last 10K or so. Just really muscular breakdown was my main limiter. I aerobically felt really good and really smooth. And Marta, who I left transition with, went out really fast. I thought it was too fast. I even said it to her, like we're running so fast right now, this is kind of crazy. But we were going downhill with a tailwind. As you know, that course starts downhill. So Jackie Hering: Mm-hmm. paula: you make up for the fast pace when you're on your way back. And I as I was kind of putting time into her without really trying to gap her, I didn't mind running with her, but I was just kind of stretching the elastic. I thought, my gosh, I might pay for this later. But if I slow down 10 seconds per K, I'm still gonna suffer the last 10 K. So let's just keep going with what's comfortable right now. Not like my heart rate was super high or anything. So I the last probably like Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: 15 kilometers were really a struggle, like hardest thing I've ever done. But up to that point, it felt pretty good. So my hope is that with with more long runs, I mean I did do a good build for this, but I think I was lacking a little bit of the long run volume. I've only done one two-hour run versus like, you know, doing that three weeks in a row. So ran out of time a little bit to do a bit of a bigger run build, but at the same time I stayed healthy. So, you know, you can't be too greedy and Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: I think aerobically I was fit for the whole thing. It was, yeah, really just the muscle pain, as you probably are familiar with, every step. Jackie Hering: Like like knive was it the knives and the quads? Was it the quads? paula: It was the quads and I and like a Charlie horse feeling thing on my right side, which made me worried after lap one that I would even finish. I'm like, this is so painful. I still have 90 minutes to go. How am I gonna get through this? But I don't know, you just put one foot in front of the front of the other, like everyone told me to do, that had done these before and break broke it into chunks. So yeah, I got through it. Crazy. Jackie Hering: Mm. Mm. Yeah. I I think that the knives and the quads it just comes and you don't know when it's gonna come. And as far as I can tell, I mean it's most important to show up healthy to the start line. And if that means a little bit less running on the way there, like you just gotta tolerate a little more knives and the quads during the race. But it's worth it to show up healthy and be able to execute and and maybe paula: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Jackie Hering: We'll see what you do. But yeah, so did you it sounds like mentally you were in a good space and physically you were in a good space. Were you was your mind just like doing the thing? Like were you in a good mood? Yeah. Throughout the race. paula: Throughout the race or leading in? Yeah. Throughout the race I was surprised how much I just really felt like I was doing another race. I tried not to think too much about this is so new, this is so different, this is twice as long. I'm out here for nine hours. And I really stayed in the moment. And anytime my mind would drift to what was coming, I was pretty good at bringing it back to the moment. So that's hard for me sometimes, even in 70.3s. I think about, my gosh, these girls are chasing me down. They can run a one 15 half marathon, I can't, and I get distracted from that. But I found it easier in a in a marathon or in this Iron Man to stay within myself a little more and not worry too much about other people. Cause as we saw, Chelsea was starting out like so fast, I thought she would for sure catch me. And then she ended up walking. So you just can't predict what's gonna happen in these things as much as you maybe can in a half. So my mind was pretty internal, like Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: Yeah, it's I'd say positive, I I guess, but anytime I saw anyone I knew on the course, I didn't even look at them, except for Eric and Nick. Cause I was like, I don't wanna break Jackie Hering: You looked like you looked like a robot on the screen, I'm not gonna lie. You were like no changes. paula: Yeah. I was worried to about breaking that focus. Like is I didn't want to spiral if I let myself crack a bit emotionally. So I yeah, stayed pretty, I guess, robotic. But on the inside I was suffering so much. And I even watched the broadcast back a little bit at the end and it didn't look like I was hurting as much as I was hurting. So I guess I had I had a good Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. Well, you have like such beautiful run form that even when things are breaking down, I think your body still runs correctly, which is nice. Yeah. paula: thanks. Yeah, I guess so. I wouldn't yeah, it's so funny watching yourself run. I like notice all these little things I wanna do differently. Like, you're so tight in your upper body, but in general I kept my form okay the whole way, which is good. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I have all the questions from people, but I, of course, was glued to this whole race and I watched everything and I saw I was wifting my brains out like ADD Central. I had like a hundred screens. it was super fun actually. paula: As you were riding Swift. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's funny. Well, I did that for you during Texas, so it's the way to do it. Totally. Yeah, it's a good way. Jackie Hering: It makes it go by pretty quick. Yeah. I saw a really critical thing happen right at the start and I rewatched it like three times. In the swim, can you talk me through? I don't know if like we had like the perfect overhead angle. I don't know if you've watched this, but where did you start in the swim? Who'd you start by? And can you tell me how hard you went and like what your mindset was in that first bit of the swim? paula: Yeah, the swim was a really rough start. Like people were climbing over me right from the get go. And it's a fairly narrow start gate. but it in an Iron Man swim, I thought maybe you don't really have to go out quite as hard as you do in a half. But I for sure felt panicky. And I think I even accidentally was like kind of swimming on people too, because it was so hectic. And I started next to like Jet is it who's the girl that's the really fast swimmer? Anyway. Yeah, so I started next to her and and Chelsea was nearby me. And I ended up getting on Chelsea's feet. She's really easy to pick out because of her white swim skin. And she was swimming so well. I was having a hard time staying on her feet. Jackie Hering: that Lara Juni Hernandez chick. Nice. Yeah. paula: But I figured if I'm like swimming feeling like this is pretty hard, we're probably moving pretty fast. And I didn't think there was anyone on my feet, although I could see a few people ahead of her. So I told myself before the start that the swim mattered, but it wasn't make or break for the race. Just don't panic. If you get out with a gap that's further than you want it to be, it's okay. You can catch up. There's so much time today to make up for that. So I was pretty relaxed throughout the swim mentally. Physically, it felt hard. I was really working hard to stay with her and kind of lost her feet on the last turn with a thousand meters to go. Because as you know, there's so many people in the water at that point. Jackie Hering: Yeah. So many yeah. paula: So even just keeping sight of where she was was really challenging and navigating around people trying to go the straightest line, but that's kind of impossible. So the whole swim was just like stay relaxed, stay relaxed. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Long strokes, like don't don't work too hard. And I think I got out of the water with a minute. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: Chelsea put like a minute on me in the last kilometer, which was amazing. but only two minutes to the front of the race. So I was I was in the in the race still. And I didn't feel like the swim like took that much out of me. I got on my bike and felt good. So yeah, swim was I don't know, it's a good swim, but it's windy and choppy and busy and whatever. I just thanks. Jackie Hering: I've Thought I thought your swim was awesome. And I mean, especially like, I don't know, you had maybe one one bad swim or something this year, but I was just impressed because at the start, the overhead view was like she did gap you a little bit, and you are you just like maneuvered perfectly and caught back up and got on her feet. And I thought that was kind of like the critical moment because then you had somebody to be with, otherwise paula: Mm. Yes. Jackie Hering: There was a gap behind you, like people were going back, and you would have been then stuck in like no man's land the whole time. And Chelsea's been swimming. Yeah. Like it was probably worth that little push to get up to her. And that's really good you're able to do that. She's been swimming. She came out front group. She was out with Holly in Kona. She's been swimming really well. paula: Yeah. Yeah, and I told myself that yeah. Yeah. I know and I knew that. So I thought, okay, if you're with her it's it's a good thing. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Very good. Yeah. Yep. so anyways, just wanted to talk through that because I'm always interested in swim dynamics. It's the puzzle I'll never solve. paula: It's interesting. Yeah. I actually like it too, because when you're watching it from the outside, it's obviously feels way different than when you're in it. And you can learn some things about sighting and where to put yourself and how close to be to someone. I felt the whole time like I was too far from her feet. I'm like, you should be almost touching her feet for the maximum draft, but I like couldn't get there. And yeah, it was hard. She was going well. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, she's magically swimming good. okay, so on to the bike. You had a plan. Did you pretty much follow your plan the whole time? Or were you feeling like, all right, I want to get to the front of this race. I just want to crush people. Specifically, I want to hear about the dynamics of if you stuck to your plan and then kind of what it was like when you finally did get to the front and caught up to those other girls and paula: Yeah. Jackie Hering: If if it was like strategy to drop them or you just went or like what happened there? paula: well, this course starts downhill, huh? That big descent, which is six minutes long, and then kind of is flat for a while before the next half climbs. So I really was thinking like I could see them way up the road. I was freezing cold. It was so cold at the start, really windy. And I was riding a little harder than I wanted to just to get warm, not necessarily to catch them. And I knew that that my best chance of like closing the gap. quickly and efficiently was on a climb, not on these rollers. So yeah, I wasn't panicking or anything because I knew they were up there and I knew exactly, you know, that big climb out of J that's like eight minutes long. That was where I wanted to catch them and that's exactly where I did end up catching them. I knew I could put like a minute into people if I was riding pretty well at that. so yeah, I was riding probably like Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: 250 to 260 up that climb, which is good high for an Iron Man. But that's where I wanted to get around people. And as I came around them all, which felt not too hard, there's like, as you know, this is so annoying for you too, pro men intermingled in their little pack, which I said to them, like, you guys need to get out of the women's race. You're impacting their dynamics here. And I got to the front of the pack and I was a little bit mad about that, like about the guys that were in the way. So I like surged in anger a bit. Jackie Hering: Mm-hmm. paula: and dropped them a little bit. But you know how it is with all the motorcycles around, they got back onto me and it's so hard to break the elastic at these things because if there's a motorcycle beside me, then they're getting like motorbike me. Yeah. It's crazy. Jackie Hering: There was three. I took a little video and posted. I was like doing some commentary on my trainer because that was before I was riding too hard. So I'm like recording with my phone and talking. And when you went by and we're about to have a gap, there was three motos in a row behind you. And I'm like, freak, I could keep up. If you get three mo well, not at that point. If there's three motos. paula: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, of course you could keep up Jackie Hering: It's so much easier. So whatever. You ended up eventually either those motos moved or, you know, whatever. And then Marta somehow got away from them and did make it. paula: Yeah. Well y yeah. Yeah, Marta's really good on the bike. She's she's strong. She's like a little rocket. She has good position. She I don't know. I c I would have preferred just to TT on my own at the front by myself, but she kept, she was like coming around me a couple times. And you know, when that happens, you have to sit up and break because you gotta get out of the red flashing lights. Jackie Hering: She's so strong. Yeah. paula: So it made it a bit of a surgier ride, but I suppose in an Iron Man it's nice to have company a little bit. So I didn't mind having her there. But I would drop her like several times, look back, she wasn't there, and then she'd be there again. So I don't know, she was just like Jackie Hering: She obviously d she didn't want to get dropped. paula: No, she was cueing off me, of course, and like probably using some of the more technical parts to pin it and get back on. And yeah, I it was okay. I really like her. She's a really nice competitor. Super, you know, super good at all three and really experienced. So it wasn't a bad thing to have someone around. And I was just really wanting to put time on Chelsea, knowing she's such a good runner and Lisa Perder, who I know also can run really well. So I was getting gaps to them, but Also in an Iron Man, like you can't go way harder just to put gaps on people, otherwise you blow yourself up. So again, more staying within myself and just riding watts that I knew I could sustain. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Well, some of us maybe Marta's like me. Maybe she likes to Iron Man with a buddy. You know? Like you know it's a long way. I mean, not to talk about the men's race, but Martin Van Reel like soloed that thing. And to me, that's like my worst nightmare. I don't want to solo an Iron Man. It's nice. I paula: Probably. I mean most people probably do. It's so lonely. Yeah. I just want to because I don't wanna I was so scared of getting a drafting pet like it's nice to not deal with Race Ranger in any way and just be like open road. Cause anytime I only saw a red light like twice when I was riding behind her and every time I'd go right around and that's a spike. That's a huge effort. So it's different dynamics. It's crazy. But Jackie Hering: Yeah, that's true. Yes, it is. And I remember at Placid last year when I was like it was like dumping rain and I was like mildly bonked at the end of maybe not mildly, maybe like a good amount bonked at the end of that ride. And I like couldn't see I'm like hand windshielding wiper on my visor and when I wiped it off, I saw a red light in front of me and I'm like, I actually can't physically do the watts to go around this person. Like I did not go in this light on purpose. paula: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Jackie Hering: But it's true, those spikes do kind of add up and you don't necessarily sometimes it's by accident that it turns red and you don't necessarily want to be like doing an effort. paula: Yeah, just because of the nature of the nature of a rolling course, right? They get to a hill before you do. But I actually don't mind it when it's another female. What really pisses me off is when you come up behind a pro man and the red light's going off, you're still obligated to go by them and they're riding as hard as they can. So when that happens, I try to scream at them and say like, Hey pro man, please ease up for like 10 seconds so I can not get a penalty here. And you could go back around me, whatever. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: But generally they're pretty good about noticing I'm there and then s sitting up a bit and not to impact their race, but like if I get a penalty 'cause of a guy, that's shitty. Happened to Lisa. Jackie Hering: Well that that is how Lisa last year I was so pissed for her because there's it makes me mad, that happens all the time. And if like if I'm catching a guy on the bike, all I can think of is like, I'm a forty year old lady. Like how am I catching you? It makes no sense to me. paula: Yeah. Yeah. Well, for me, every time I catch them, it's on any kind of incline. Like we get to a descent and they're like goodbye. And if we get to an incline, they fully freaking slow to like I mean I'm riding like twice as fast as them sometimes. It's crazy. So Jackie Hering: Yeah. It's because they have like a sixty tooth one bye 'cause they think they're that strong and then they can't climb the hill 'cause they're like you know they're not strong enough, they just gotta admit it. paula: Yeah. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Anyway, that's just some of the dynamics of the bike, but it's how it is. And it honestly makes five hours go by quick when you're dealing with some of that stuff. So it's not all bad. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. well, one of the things I was like holding my breath about w has been a huge project of yours this year, which is the nutrition. I was watching your bottles. You only had your front like little straw thing and then your underw bottle, which was probably all your like calories essentially. I was watching the content, what was in those bottles? paula: Yeah. Jackie Hering: Very closely. I'm like, I hope she does this. please be eating. So if you can, kinda can you walk us through what your fueling plan was? if you want to start at the swim or just the bike or whatever you want to share. paula: Please be eating. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't that calculated aside from the total volume I wanted to consume. So in my torpedo I had tailwind high carb mix, which is 90 grams of carbs. In my bottle below my torpedo, I had a flow gel, which is 300 grams of carbs. And I think that was a really critical thing to discover in the last couple of weeks of my training because I like the consistency of it. It's a really efficient way to get a lot of carbohydrates in and Jackie Hering: Yes. paula: I did put an extra flow gel bottle in my special or my personal needs, but didn't need it. And then I had two gels, which equaled 100 grams. So in total I was carrying almost 500, and I knew if I finished everything, I would be in good a good place. My arrow bottle had just water in it for washing down gels and flow gels. And then probably in like four of the aid stations, I picked up just water and refilled the torpedo. So Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: kind of diluting the tailwind as it as I went. So I felt like I got enough carbs. probably not enough actual fluid. If if it were a hotter day, I'd have to have more water or electrolytes. But I think I did a good job because I never felt like I was bonking. I never felt like I had any stomach issues. And then on the run, Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: I was grabbing Morton Gels for the most part for my, which wasn't necessarily my plan because I had these Amex gels that I trained with and all my personal needs and I ran out with them. But it is nice to have Morton, which I know my stomach tolerates, just to grab whenever and then water. And actually Coke, which I thought of you every time I took a Coke, because I'm like, I never drink Coke, but Jackie does. Which especially when it's all hot and flat. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Coke is the answer in Iron Man. I know. I always just grab the ice cup and then the Coke and then you dump the Coke in there. paula: I was not making cocktails. I was just Jackie Hering: I'm like mxing just run ten seconds a mile slower and you can make your own cocktails on the road. paula: Through you know what tastes so gross is the electrolyte through the run aid station when it's hot. It's so yucky. But I was taking that because I was worried about these cramps. I was like, what can I do out here? That's my only desperate attempt to make these stops. So I was taking precision at every run stop as well. Jackie Hering: Yeah, you definitely have to mix the ice with that. Yeah. That's the way. I mean, you have to be so flexible with nutrition and Iron Man and be listening to your body, especially on the run. It's like, give me everything and body, just do your thing with it and send it to the muscles. paula: Yeah. Yeah. I got pretty for sure. I think I got pr I'm pretty lucky that I have a not an iron gut, but I don't have really sensitive, you know, GI tracks or anything. I I can take pretty much any gel on earth, any drink on earth without practicing with it and I feel fine. So that's a nice thing too, to be able to grab what's on course. Actually, this is funny, before the race, Lindsay Corbin, I chat chatted with her and she's like, a good piece of advice is to try to pee on the bike because that means you are Jackie Hering: Yeah. Same. Yeah. paula: hydrating enough and I did pee on the mic. I don't know if you ever do that. Yeah. Jackie Hering: You did. I I used to, but the let like since this new phase of Iron Man racing, I have never had to. So I don't know if something's wrong with me or what, but I do usually pee like when the start of the run at some point. But good for you. Did you wait did you wait till you were passing the male pro and just like let it go, like right all over paula: interesting. No. Okay. Yeah. I mean I felt through several times like I had to pee. I mean Yeah. No, I couldn't do it if I was pedaling. It was just sense only. Yeah, yeah, that's a good tip. Jackie Hering: Next time. No, next time. Pass him up the hill and then as you start descending and he's coming, just let it go. Okay. That is gross. paula: That's so gross. It felt it felt very yucky. I'm like, this is wrong. But Lindsay told me to, so I'm gonna do it. Yeah, yeah. Jackie Hering: People do it. They do. As long as you wash your bike. paula: Bike is washed, yeah. Bike is clean. Yeah. No, I love my bike. Jackie Hering: Yeah, then that'll be fine. You'll get a new bike for the next one probably anyways. okay, so you nailed the nutrition. I'm I honestly that's what I was nervous for for you, because I know you have historically have had a habit of not eating enough sometimes. Yeah. So I'm glad you've got that. paula: Definitely, especially in halves. Yeah, yeah. But it's funny when you yeah, when you know it's important and you make it happen. I mean, this race was important to me, so I was willing to like try new stuff and pull out all the stops and this included. It was one of my biggest worries as well. So that really made me focus on it more than I usually do. Jackie Hering: Yeah, that's good. Good stuff. okay, let's move on to kind of like your prep and your training. The main consensus of some of these questions was what were the main differences in your training? Like what what changed and did you like it? paula: Yeah. well I put I go on Strava for most stuff. I probably miss like three of three rides. I don't know. I I don't put everything on Strava, but I put a lot. So you can kind of see the vibes of the long rides. Jackie Hering: When did that change? 'Cause you used to put everything, Paula. What happened? paula: Yeah, well, sometimes if I'm I've been doing like three heat sessions a week, I don't put those on Strava, like stuff that's not really that interesting to that I don't think is interesting. Or if I do like a couple hours on the gravel bike, I don't put it up there. So most workouts are there. But I think the difference was just the embracing the longer bike rides and the intervals that were longer than I usually do. So like 30-minute, 40-minute intervals. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: With the recovery being not full recovery, like still riding, you know, 170, 180 on the 10 minutes off. So those are really good because I would ride like, you know, 220 to 230 on those longer pieces and feel good and practice taking in fluid and nutrition while I was doing them. And my biggest struggle on the bike through my life has been comfort in the TT bars, riding in the elements, finding roads where I feel comfortable riding. Jackie Hering: Decent. Yeah. paula: Cause in 30 minutes riding at 230 watts, you can go pretty far and pretty fast. So you have to have roads that you feel safe on. And I was really good about like driving out to somewhere where I knew I could do that and execute it properly and be brave in the wind. If it was windy, I wouldn't just wuss out and go on the trainer. I'm like, it might be windy in the race, go outside. So making decisions that I normally would have maybe backed out of in situations like this and just like grabbing the bull by the horns and doing them. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: some of the the run strategy wasn't like go do 30k runs a bunch of times. It was more do a run in the evening after a long bike ride or like do a key run session and then the next morning do a longer run. So within 24 hours I was running 35 or 40k, but with a sleep in the middle and some refueling. So the total volume of running was good. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: But the number of runs I did that were like continuously over 20, 25k were pretty minimal. So I don't know. That was my coach Paulo's approach. And I was enjoying it. I was feeling fitter. I was feeling like I finished every day with not totally destroyed, like I could wake up and still do the next day pretty well. On rest days, I took them really seriously and actually rested. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: and didn't try to like, you know, do a 90-minute cruise or do a hard swim. Like they were actually restful. So all those little things helped, I think. And I ended up enjoying the longer training. I thought I wouldn't, but taking that intensity down a notch was kind of fun. Cause riding hard, like 300 watts, whatever, that it's so hard. And I'm good at it. So I think I've told myself I like it because I'm good at it. But it is kind of nice to take it down 50 watts and just do that for a longer period of time. Jackie Hering: I like to take it down a lot of watts. That feels way good. I mean, yeah. It's t it Iron Man is nice. I I think it's great. I you have you had like buddies on your long rides. I saw Eric busted back out a T T bike. what yeah. paula: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes, that helped a lot. Andy Kruger, he's a a male pro in town, is pretty good. He did some long rides with me, or I tried to stay with him on the rides, and I was like, a lot of those rides I was riding over what I should have been, but I'm like, stay with Andy, stay with Andy, and it made me stronger. yeah, there's there's a few different pros in town that I joined up with, which obviously helps so much when you're doing the long stuff. And then Eric getting the Shiv T T back up and running was Jackie Hering: Fine. Yeah. paula: Also very helpful. Jackie Hering: I did not see that one coming. Does he plan on doing any triathlons with it? paula: He has loose plans to do like a final 70.3 or something, or like Norsman or something of that nature. And Eric loves riding the TT bike. You can go really fast and it's pretty fun, which I've also embraced. So he likes it. And it's, I think the hip pain that he had before was really bad on the TT bike, so it made it not fun. But when you don't have that, it can be fun. So yeah, he's got a good attitude. Jackie Hering: yeah. And he Yes. Yeah, that's awesome. And so nice for you to have him like back in like fast fast bike mode. paula: Yeah, to be honest though, every time I rode with Eric, most of the time he was on his road bike sitting on my wheel, which I also enjoy because it's like company, but he was like had the cameras out and stuff. So yeah, good training partner. Could not do it without Eric. Wouldn't be in the sports still. biggest supporter ever. So Eric's my husband, if anyone doesn't know. Jackie Hering: Okay. Yeah. Yes. He he is maximum supporter, big fan. I think you guys are a good team. And yeah, he does a lot. it seems. Yeah. paula: He does a lot. Same with Mark for you. I mean we all need husbands that are supportive and couldn't do it by ourselves. Yeah, yeah. Jackie Hering: For sure. Yes. I mean, I was telling you right before this that I got I spontaneously did a long ride and got home and had to quick whip up a lasagna. I couldn't have done that lasagna in 15 minutes without Mark, because he's like grabbing stuff out of the freezer, finding me my ingredients. It's just like triathlon. Like we need the we need the men. paula: Yeah. You can't do it solo. Yeah, to a certain extent, I feel like I'm more useless now. Like I went to TT Nationals without Eric and I was like, I don't know how to put this derailer on. I don't know how to pump my tires. So it's good to occasionally get a little solo time to remind yourself how to do things that are pretty simple. But otherwise he's helpful. Jackie Hering: Yes, I I get that going to races. But then you miss them. okay, let's let's look ahead. there was some I was also on occasion in the live chat on the Iron Man YouTube, which is a whole crazy thing, but I learned the most it's mental. It's it's absolutely ridiculous, but I did learn one amazing thing, which is how to block people. paula: It's a dumpster fire. You never know what you're gonna get. Jackie Hering: In the chat, and you could just block like the people who get on there and just say annoying crap over and over, like slow twitch or whatever, which is the worst account ever in these chats. you can just block them and then you only see the people you like. Yeah. Anyways, I was in the chat and a few people were like, do you think she'll actually do Kona? I'm like, guys, isn't that the point? paula: Yeah. And then they don't show up for you. that's good to know. Okay. Jackie Hering: So how you feeling about Kona? Are you excited? Like we're going, right? And when are we going? Let's go. Yeah. paula: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well you're going, right? Okay, I haven't booked anything, so you need to tell me when to go and where to stay. But yeah, I'm gonna go. I said this a lot of times before the race. Going getting a cone slot was not my mission going to Placid. I wanted to go and have a good Iron Man. And I if I I think I said in our podcast, like if I was just finishing just to get a cone slot and I was death marching in in 10th or something, that would not be a success to me. So I'm very grateful to get a cone slot, but it was not my goal. But I will go. And I've also seen a lot of messages of people say, like, I'm not good in the heat or whatever, but I can train for the heat. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Whatever, let's just give give the finger. I can't right here 'cause I don't want my thing to be rated explicit. paula: Yeah, I've been heat churning. I mean, anyone can prep for the heat. Of course, some people are better suited to it, but I will get b ready as fast as I can. And it's it's exciting. I think after doing that one and not having a bad time, it's fun to think about going to the biggest race of the year doing it again. So I'll be there, you'll be there. Lots of people will be there. Jackie Hering: so so sad that Holly won't be there though. She just put out she's made peace with it, I think, now, but she just put out her YouTube like officially announcing her injury and now she can't do an Iron Man to qualify. That is sad. But she's gonna Yeah. paula: I know. she I haven't seen it. You know, I really wish I wish that the top ten auto qualified. Like from last year. Jackie Hering: Wasn't she was she top five? Maybe the top five. paula: Was she sixth? Yeah, she was sixth. But still, the t the top ten or eight, whatever you make it, deserve to go back. You're competitive on the world stage. I guess you should have to complete one Iron Man in the year, but it's it should just be I think it should be an auto-qualify. It's so sad when someone so good and she'll be healthy by October is gonna miss out on it. And it's not by lack of trying. She tried to go to Hamburg. Jackie Hering: okay, top six. But still Yeah. Yeah. It paula: She did everything she could to get healthy for the races she's doing and yeah, it's really sad. Not just 'cause I'm friends with her. It's like a bummer for anyone that misses out who's really a competitor and in the mix. Jackie Hering: It is said. Yeah, right, yeah, so paula: I would give her my I would maybe I'll give her my slot. No, no. Are they transferable? we can ask. Jackie Hering: I think we'd be better off giving her mine. I mean Alice has one to transfer. Alice is qualified for Kona. Alice Alberts. She's gonna have a baby. She should just give her slot. Too bad they don't allow that. Yeah. okay, so we're looking forward to Kona. Are you gonna do any? I saw your name on, I know you're not going to Boise. I saw your name on Vancouver T100. Are you gonna go or just see how the body shakes out? See how you feel. paula: That she's gonna bump it to next year. Yeah, I'm sure she would. Yeah, the start list came out like the day after I finished placid and I was like, hell no, I do not want to do that. But the allure is like the racing in Canada. If it was anywhere else, I would not have even put my name on the start list. as we know, that racing just gotten faster and faster and it's suited me less and less. It's four weeks. I think I could come around for it for sure. Jackie Hering: yeah. It's what Is it four weeks? paula: But now I'm getting a bit greedy and I'm like, should I go to Zell Z and get more Pro Series points and then do Niece and do Kona? Like Zell Z niece are two weeks apart and then Kona. Or just do Nice and Kona and not be distracted at all. Just train till then. Either of those options sounds good. Jackie Hering: Holy Okay, so before before Placid and before Kona, were you planning to go to Nice? Like was this always Nice is always part a good part of the plan. Okay. paula: Yes. Yeah, it's a I like climbing. I think it's a good course for me. And I also don't think that like training for a half can it has to be that disruptive to a an Ironman build either. I don't know. Maybe it is, but I Jackie Hering: It is a good course for you. No, it's not. I think it works. I think it works great. I think the only drawback is that it's like a Europe trip that kind of, you know, it's just a little more it's just like that little bit extra travel and time zone that is just a little a little bit disruptive. But I think overall, you know, like you did with Happy Valley, that was like regardless of how Happy Valley would have went, paula: Yes, totally. It's draining. Jackie Hering: Obviously went well, which was a good confidence booster. But even if it hadn't, it would have been a really good stimulus as part of your Iron Man training. So no matter how Nice goes, it will still be like a a boost towards your Kona training. I love doing a half before a full. So paula: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't wanna I've done one Iron Man. I don't wanna like, K seventy point threes, I'm done with you. I still wanna be in the mix with them. So I'll go to Nice, yeah, for sure. Jackie Hering: Yeah, so actually that was Holly sent me some questions. I was gonna have Holly on the pod and and then I was like, okay, who knows where where that'll go with all of us chatting. But yeah, that that would be but yes, she was really interested if this is gonna kind of change your overall focus, I guess. I don't know about paula: Yeah. That would be like TTL after dark. Like you don't want to hear that conversation. Whenever we do stuff. Jackie Hering: Maybe not so much for this year, but for like next year. Like will you do you think you'll try to do some Ironmans or still keep a lot of seventy point threes or just do a mix? Have you thought that far? paula: Mm. Or not or none or retire. No, I Jackie Hering: Or we did get a couple questions about okay, now she's done Iron Man, is she gonna go have babies now? So paula: Well that's that's an option too. yeah, I think training for an Iron Man and then having a good experience there definitely gave me a little more rejuvenation and love for the sport which I was losing as I was racing the T-100 stuff and feeling a little bit, you know, like I want this to be over. I'm not enjoying the racing, I'm not enjoying this traveling, I don't like going and getting eighth place at T-100s, it's not fun. Jackie Hering: It's two paula: I'm grateful for the T100 for the financial opportunity and like how well they take care of us. It's fun racing, but it took my enjoyment away from it a lot. So it was too much like short course. It was so different than 70.3, and I was all in on it because I had the contracts. So finding this other path of racing a little bit longer, and I regret not doing it sooner, I think, but you know, you can't go back in time, so I'm just grateful I made the decision to do placid this year and yeah, now I feel like I could do it for another year or two and do good at it, learn things, focus a little more on like the Pro Series or Iron Man or whatever it is, and keep going for a little while. So I'll decide later. It's hard to do that three days after my first one, but I'm coming at I've I know I'm tired and I'm sore, but I do think that if you did an earlier season Iron Man and then Placid, like it's not totally unrealistic to do three in a year. Based on how I feel right now. So Jackie Hering: You're preaching to the choir. I mean, I agree. Like, you could do I know it is doable if you spread them out. And and even if they're not that spread out, like two years ago, I had that bad I had a bad ankle sprain over winter, so I wasn't running at all. So I didn't start my pro series campaign till like the end of May. So pretty much and then I did paula: Yeah. At first I thought it was insane, but you can totally do it. Yeah. Jackie Hering: My Iron Man's June, July, October. Like you can really jam in there. It's better to spread them out. but paula: Yeah. I know. Well, is it though? Like I was even thinking in the back of my mind, which immediately got shut down by my coach, I should go do Kalmar because in four weeks I'll still be like fit. I'll get another Iron Man and then I'll do the two world championships. I could freaking top three in the pro series, but I know I'm not I'm not doing that, but I'm just saying. Jackie, I'm not gonna do it. Jackie Hering: You are getting way too greedy. I am sorry. Your body will be so pissed. This is called how people get burnt out and hurt. Please don't. I'm gonna I'm glad your coach said no. A big NO to that. I understand the idea. Yeah. paula: Yeah. But what I'm saying is, yes, that's the idea, is like you can, like you did, jam it in a little more when you're in the fitter part of your season if you're careful about not getting injured. And it's it is possible. Anything is possible. But I'm not doing that. Jackie Hering: There you go. She's drinking the Kool-Aid. Drinking the Kool-Aid now. well, yes, I mean anything is possible. If you wanna come to Kalmar, that'd be great. Holly was gonna come and now I have no friend, so paula: To be honest, it sucked not having you or Holly and Placid. It really makes it less fun. I'm glad Nick and Eric were there, obviously, and I had family there. But even before the start, it's so comforting to have friends around. And I had Fiona, like a couple other friends, but we I really missed you too. So next we gotta do a Kona, whatever. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I well, Kono will be there. Yep. You're gonna have a bit more hype, I think, than me, which honestly last year like it's fun to be a I actually really enjoyed and was quite honored to be a part of a lot of the media stuff and get a little bit attention because I was doing well in the pro series, but I think maybe it was because my family was there. It just felt like I was so exhausted every day. There's a they really pull you into a lot of stuff. And so I think that that could happen to you. So you might have to say no to a couple things here and there to protect your energy. Cause it's like, it's just so hot and humid. And then you just end up being out and about going a hundred different directions all day. That paula: Yeah, I could see that. You have to be careful. Yeah, just manage your energy totally. Yeah, I like I like Holly's style. She like came in on Wednesday or Thursday. I might do that. Just like show up and race. I don't need to recon the course. I know what it is. Jackie Hering: right. There's really nothing to recon. I'm coming, I think this week we're going on Monday because last week or last year. no, last year I went a little early and that was fine. Cause Alice wanted me to come early with her. But the kids race is on Tuesday. And we want to get there in time so the kids can do the kids' race this year. So but they're really honestly you get there and for me, I just get more and more tired the longer I'm there. paula: Of course. Yeah, yeah. That's what I've heard from people. They're like, Go as late as you can and we'll see. As long as your heat train going in, obviously. Jackie Hering: Yeah. So Yeah, I need to do better about that. That's one of the things I didn't take serious enough, I think leading into last year. paula: Do you wanna do a do wanna do a Tucson camp? Heather and Lindsay said Tucson's actually great that time of year for Kona Prep because it gets a bit humid and it's hot. We could stay okay, let's let's do it. Let's do it. Jackie Hering: I would love that. Sure. Let's do it. I once my kids hey, I'm doing full summer. Like yesterday I was on the trainer and the kids are home and Mark's trying to work. I and the I need a break. And so I'm excited for school to start. And end of August. It's not till after Sweden. So I'm I'm just chugging along over here, but paula: Which is when? Still a while. Good job. Jackie Hering: Yeah, so training camp will be super fun. I we and we both know Tucson pretty well and I love going to camp with you because it inspires me to get in really good shape so that I can train with you. It's true. paula: Okay, let's God. Okay, well we can stay at Heather's house, so I think I think we should do it. Jackie Hering: Yeah. All right. I will I will plan for that. I'll tell Mark no big hunting trips because I got a camp to go to. okay. Let's see. So we have cracked through most of the questions. I am wondering. Yeah, I mean, I I don't like to do I know on your TTL pod you guys do such a good job of like. paula: Can Pencil it in. Very organically. Jackie Hering: Here's the question. Here's the answer. Ours is it's more of a conversation that we got going on here. paula: This format was great. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Overall, looking back, like, do you think this is gonna help your I guess mindset and your toughness going into seventy point threes? Like how do you think this is gonna change how you might feel or attack or think of when you're racing a seventy point three? paula: I think it might have a similar effect to when I jumped up to 70.3 and then went back went back and did some Olympic distance races. You feel like I can go harder here. This is not that long. And it was that realization I had when I did the first lap of the bike and my power wasn't that different than a half. And I did the first lap of the run and it was only a couple minutes slower than a normal 70.3 for me. And I'm like, I need to go harder in the halves. Because I finished I finish those things and I think I'm going hard, but I'm not like. you know, rolling on the ground exhausted or anything. So maybe I do have more in the tank, or maybe my body's just kind of stuck in this gear of this pace is good for me. This Iron Man pace is what I'm best at. I don't know what it is, but it it still makes me it doesn't make me never want to do one again or anything. I think it makes me excited to go and feel like, this is actually a little bit shorter and mentally it might be easier to get through some of the lulls knowing that it's gonna be over relatively soon. So yeah, I don't know. It might the training also I think is good for half training. It's like it's made me stronger, able to kind of maybe get to the end of a half better as well, the end of a bike 70.3. Sometimes I get to the end of those and I'm like, how am I gonna run a half marathon? But I think through this longer training I'm doing, I will hopefully have a bit less of that feeling. I don't know. Jackie Hering: Well, this is this is something none of us like to hear who are racing against you, so paula: Well, Jackie, I'm just trying to be positive, but I could be totally full of shit. I mean, I don't know. Jackie Hering: No. No, it's it is true. It's like even when now that I'm, you know, I had that stint of just doing 70.3s, and now that I'm back to mixing in the Iron Man's, it is a thing. Cause when you're bound to have a couple 70.3s where you just feel like blah, like you're just there, like the whole time. And even those, it's like, well, I in reality only have an hour left. Like it's not that big of a deal. Like paula: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. It's gonna be done at lunchtime, Jackie Hering: It's gonna be done. paula: not four PM. Jackie Hering: You just kinda chug along and get through it. So I think that's what Iron Man kind of sets you up with is like you know you can navigate a super long day. So doing a half day on those days when you're not feeling your best, like you know you'll you'll chug through it. So I'm sure it will be helpful. paula: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, yeah, you'll get to the end. It's good it's good for the brain. And I didn't totally ease off the intensity into the Iron Man because I did T T nationals for Canada. So I was doing some high intensity work as well, but the the primary focus was longer stuff. So I think even when you're doing Iron Man training, as you know, you have to keep some of that higher end. Otherwise you just get too stuck in one gear. And I had to use the higher end plenty of times in this race to get around people, to get up hills. Like it's very dynamic. So the seventy point three training also plays into the full Iron Man stuff as well. It's not just one way, you know. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Right. Okay. What are your top three things you're most excited about for Kona? Tell me it's the Asi Ball. paula: Okay, the food, I guess. The SAE bowl. Okay. I don't know. Kona at this point makes me a little worried than more than excited, just because I feel like it's in over my head, but I felt like that about placid as well a little bit. So I think I'm excited to be part of the hype. Like I watch it every year really carefully and get fed all of the stuff that's being shown all week. And I always have FOMO. Jackie Hering: No. The Asaíbow place is really delicious. But you tell me your top three. That's mine for you. paula: So to actually be there, be part of it and get to feel what it's actually like to yeah, be in it, I think will be fun. I'm excited for that. I'm excited to have Eric and hopefully Nick, maybe my parents come. my dad said to me after placid, he's like, Well, if I knew you were gonna win, I would have come. What a good dad. Jackie Hering: Your mom yeah, your mom's not gonna wanna miss it. She's gonna be there for sure. paula: I don't know. My my aunts, three aunts and one uncle were in Placid. So I had like a good family support network there. But my mom gets so nervous watching me race. I don't know if she'll want to come to Kona. But yeah, it's I'm also excited for it to be like the last thing of the year. Cause I've been dragging my season out so late the last couple of years, like going to Qatar, mid-December, going to Dubai, going to New Zealand. And I think it'll be fun to have this. Jackie Hering: Yeah. paula: Focus that's in a reasonable time of year. October is not too long to like train hard for and know that after that I'm all done. So that's a nice feeling as well. There's a finish line and it's achievable. And I can hunker down and train really hard till then without getting injured or tired, knock on wood. Jackie Hering: Yeah, we're all knocking on the same wood for that. Yeah, I think October is the perfect time. Cause then you can just like enjoy fall, like do the fun bike rides, like just have at it. paula: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then not feel too effed the next year. Like starting the season injured and tired is the worst feeling. Like you can kind of start a little earlier too if you finish earlier. So I don't know what 2027 will look like for me, but it seems like, okay, it is reasonable to think about doing an Iron Man in April if you're done in October and you're not pushing your body till the end of December. So it yeah, it changes the year a lot. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I think it I think you will love Kona if you can go into it holding the same mindset you did for Placid, the like search and discover mindset. If you can just keep that same one for Kona, which should be easy because it's your first time. Like just go see what happens kind of deal and you know. paula: Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it does take the it it's really rare for me now to be like new at anything because I've been around for so long. So to go into something being new to it takes the pressure off and yeah, treat it more like discovery and what could be possible than pressure. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Right. And we're gonna have a great day there. I have a really good feeling it's gonna be great. I'm paula: Thanks, Jackie. I mean, I I'm excited you'll be there too. And it's nice having you and Lindsay and Heather, who are so experienced there, to like tell me stuff like that and give me little tips. I mean, it's I couldn't have done even placid without some of the stuff that you guys told me. So I'm grateful for my friends who are all Iron Man champions as well. I'm serious. Jackie Hering: Yes, w I mean we all are. Yep, we've been there. and now you are too. It only took you one though. So that's just awesome. paula: It's so funny with the everyone saying the bell was I mean, I didn't even think twice about it. It wasn't I didn't think anyone would see it. I was just like, first timer bell ring. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Well in in like our last text we have a little group with you and me and Holly. You were like it was I don't remember if it was me or Holly, but Holly's like, don't forget to ring the bell. and you did and it was so sweet. paula: Yeah, did you say I had to ring the bell? Yeah. There was maybe that's why I did it. Subconsciously I it just happened. Yeah, I didn't even know what it meant. So do they have a bell at every Iron Man? Jackie Hering: You just knew you were gonna ring the bell. Well when you saw it. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the f I don't know if it's like the first timer or the PR bell. I'm not sure, but whatever it was, there's always a bell. Yeah, but I think it's the first timer bell. That's why it was cute. Well, Holly probably rang it there last year, so it was probably top of mind. I haven't rang a first timer bell. Okay, hold on, kids. Since the year 2008. paula: They always have one. Okay. Okay. It is, it is, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. That was your first Iron Man. Wow. Well, if it makes you feel better, I was racing triathlons then too, just not Iron Man's. Jackie Hering: Yes. Yeah. I know. You I mean, it's full circle now, Paula. Like the coolest career. I'm so happy that you're still going and you're still loving it. It really like it really is neat. paula: Well, as you know, thank you, Jackie. You see behind the curtain more than most people 'cause you're my friend, but it's not always positive and good. So I'm happy I could have a good build that was that was positive and found a little joy in the whole thing. So that means a lot for me. Jackie Hering: Yep. Yep. Seems like you got some good mojo. So just keep that going. It doesn't it's all your man. You don't gotta go hard all the time. You can stop and have snacks whenever you want. It's great. Yeah. All right. Let's wrap this up. Thank you so much for coming on and I would like to hear your last thing, which is what you're loving right now in your recovery. Yeah. paula: Ha ha Totally. In fact that's better. Yeah. yeah, this is what came up, comes up on every episode. What am I loving? I'm loving my neighborhood, who had a little parade for me when I got home last night. Like they all made signs and they were out on the front yard. It was the cutest thing ever. They put signs all over my house. So best neighborhood ever, we're never moving. I'm loving Eric's parents who watched our dogs all week, didn't have to think for a second about how they were doing because they were well taken care of. And I am loving Jackie Hering: Every episode. paula: Eric for putting up with that week of chaos and he he did love it, but it was exhausting for him too, as you know from Mark, like supporting an Iron Man is a lot of work and he did a ten out of ten job. So those are my things. Yay, Eric. Jackie Hering: Yay. Double kudos for Eric on this episode. So that's awesome. Well, enjoy your recovery. Just take a chill. You can do whatever you want in your recovery. Ice cream every day. It's good for the bod. We had bad smoke for a couple days, which we never get. It was insane. It was terrible. paula: Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna go to the coast tomorrow because it's so smoky and bad, and so we're getting out of here. Yeah, yeah. It was smoky and placid was smoky too, but thankfully cleared out. But it's it's the worst. So we're gonna go escape. Jackie Hering: It moved. Yeah. Well, we're hitting our cabin for a few days too, so so relaxing. It's nice. All right. Yep. Thanks for coming on. paula: Nice. Yeah. Well have a nice time and thank you for having me and thank you everybody to lit for listening. Bye.