Jackie Hering: Hey everyone and welcome back to the Women's Race podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Herring, we are here. It's episode two and thank you ⁓ much for coming back and listening. You guys are the early listeners and someday we will look up back on this time with such joy, the very beginnings. And so thank you all for sharing this show and giving me some ratings. That's kind of how the word gets out and hopefully I can continue this. ⁓ speaker-0: All right, we had a little technical difficulties and we're going to try to finish this podcast out. We're almost there. Thank you guys for sticking with us. now have to learn how to edit podcasts now that that got messed up and we had to start over. So we'll see if I can figure that out. We were going through some submitted questions. One of them that I think you'd be good for ⁓ and were talking about that you have to do today is strength training. This person is wondering if you could share some of your favorite strength training exercises that you do frequently. Not all of them. Just pick one or two that you think, I don't know how to even go into this. Jackie Hering: And we can keep growing it. yeah. So here we are. I'm really excited for episode two today. I get to talk to a friend in long course triathlon. That's going to kind of be the theme of this podcast. We're talking to all the fast ladies in professional triathlon. We're going to cover all sorts of things today, but let me give her a good intro. ⁓ we got Hannah Barry here today on the show. She's one of the athletes that I've gotten to race a bunch. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I have a strength coach so that I don't have to cover too much of this myself because I don't really, I have not studied anything to do with strength and conditioning. So I just do what she says. I mean, I just keep it simple. I do a lot of stretching. I do a lot of mobility. And then I do a couple of heavy lifts. So like a deadlift and a squat or a hip thrust. Jackie Hering: over the last few years and gotten to know a little bit. And she's one of those that doesn't really necessarily chase the spotlight. She's not a super loud gal and she's not shouting everything from the rooftops, which is totally kind of how I am. So I love that. if you look at the results, she's pretty much always there. She's multiple Ironman and 70.3 wins. ⁓ speaker-1: And so I think just keeping it simple when you're just to get those basic strength, I guess, fundamentals in the program and avoid injury. think those things just cover those three things like a bit of mobility and stretching ⁓ and a few heavy lifts and you're good. Jackie Hering: Her breakout year was last year and she had a fourth place at the Ironman World Champs in Kona, which is extremely impressive to me because I was there and I died an absolute death out there and she crushed it. A couple of years ago, she was fourth in the Ironman Pro Series. She's done a bunch of T100 races and as far as I can tell, this year she's going after the Pro Series again. We're still going, Hannah. admire about you. speaker-0: You're good. I don't do much strength at all because I don't have time, but good for all the people that I it would probably help. somebody whose name on Instagram is ⁓ impossible to asks how has up in and continuing training in New Zealand benefited you as a pro athlete? Hannah: You Jackie Hering: just absolutely how well rounded and consistent you are. She's getting really uncomfortable because I'm going to keep going. She's super fast swimmer. I can't keep up to save my life. Strong on the bike and strong on the run. And now she has broken the three hour marathon barrier. The world is her oyster. Thank you, Hannah, for being here. speaker-1: I mean, I know no alternatives to this. So I mean, love living in New Zealand. It's a great place to live. It's a great place to grow up as a kid. The downside of it is it's a long way from everywhere. So it's quite challenging, especially when you're a new professional and you need to travel a long way to races. It's obviously quite costly. Hannah: Well, thank you. Thank you for that mildly uncomfortable but very nice intro. It's great to be here. Jackie Hering: Yeah speaker-1: You're a long way from home, big time differences, et cetera. But I mean, the positive is I love growing up in a small country. The community is small and ⁓ I so many people in the triathlon community all over New Zealand because we are a small country and I love that. And ⁓ don't I don't know why it would benefit me over in the other country. Jackie Hering: Yes, I'm excited to chat again. We were both at Ironman Texas. I want to hear first off just how your recovery is going, how you're doing. Hannah: Yeah, actually recovery is going well. Obviously the race was not great off from my perspective, but came home, had a super chill week. Body is fine. Even though I did have some issues in the race, it's all settled. We're good. And we are back into it as of this week. it's good to back training and not focusing on the Ironman distance, to be honest. speaker-0: I mean, it's nice. It's nice to stick. mean, I kind of live near where I grew up. I just think it's nice to kind of be in touch with your roots and right like. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, totally. And family's here. A lot of my school friends are still here and I catch up with them as much as I can. But we all live busy lives, obviously. But yeah, no, I love it. It's good. Hannah: Two Ironmans before the end of April felt like a lot. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah, yeah. You had a really, really busy start to your year, is good for the pro series to kind of get it knocked out. did what? Was Iron New Zealand your first one or did you do something before that? speaker-0: Good. All right. Kristen Yaks, PhD says, what is your why? What is it about the sport that gets you fired up? Hannah: Well, I did do a local half Ironman here in New Zealand way back in January, but it was like straight off off season. And it's like a race that is on my doorstep. I do it just for the love of it. I'm not sure I really count that as like a... ⁓ speaker-1: feel like this is often asked and it's always like, why don't you give an answer without being too cheesy is sort of the goal. But, ⁓ I think I just love, I challenging myself. ⁓ I I mean, a hard sport and I love trying to just improve and see progress. I think the has a lot of great people. love that we, ⁓ as a professional. speaker-0: Isn't it? Jackie Hering: Yeah. Hannah: proper race, it's sort of like a very chilled build up and just turn up and do it. yeah, New Zealand was the first. So I have only done two Ironmans, not like some people, for example, Christian Blumenfowder has done four races, including two Ironmans, but he is maybe not human. we won't include him. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Nah. Only. speaker-1: sport, are also connected the age group community. I do like that. And ⁓ I doing hard things that are challenging. And I think this sport is perfect for that. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah, we won't worry about the boys on this pod. It's about women's racing. You're one of the only few who has done finished, like completed the two Ironman so far, though. So I do consider that a lot of racing for for this point in the year. So kudos to you. think you're doing pretty good. You are currently number one in the pro series, which means I'm sorry to tell you absolutely nothing. Hannah: Exactly. speaker-0: Yeah, it's good. think that's enough listener questions for now. In closing, I always, well, not always so far, I've asked one person this, but I plan to ask this at the end of every episode. Closing question is what's something that you're loving right now? Could be really anything. Could be training, could be triathlon related, or it could just be anything in your life that you're loving. Hannah: Yeah, really does. Jackie Hering: at this point in the year, it really, it's too soon, but at least you have like two, like decent score. Well, one really good score and one that will probably be okay. It'll be fine. You know, it. Hannah: Yeah. speaker-1: am loving walking on the beach ⁓ the moment. We have, I live close to the beach and we've had like, since I got back from Texas, just sunny days every day. And so I've been going to walks on the beach. Obviously training and the program for the first week back here. yeah, loving It's beautiful. Hannah: Yeah, I mean, silver lining, it's better than a 70.3 score, so, it's quite a good score. Jackie Hering: For sure. Yeah, I mean, that's the hard part about the pro series, right? Like you just don't know what's gonna happen. Texas wasn't your favorite. We don't gotta hash through that too much. we'll kind of focus on, think what main thing that I always think is cool about you and really interesting is just you've had this really nice. ⁓ speaker-0: That's awesome. That's so good. Well, we're going to close it out. Thanks Hannah for chatting and for working through the ⁓ problems with me. Hannah has a great sub stack that, ⁓ everyone can go read. writes about, well, Hey, I'm just telling you, right in your sub stack and people will go read it. Maybe Jackie Hering: continual progression and you seem to be really improving each year and especially the last couple years, you seem to have just really great consistency. Is kind of how you feel like it's going from your end? Like, is that what you feel like is happening? speaker-1: kind of stopped, so you're embarrassing me. ⁓ speaker-0: used to have a good sub stack, but now she's fast to try out blonde, she doesn't got time for that. ⁓ But she's on Instagram and you follow along, follow along there ⁓ and we'll you in the U S ⁓ at the this summer. Looking forward to it. Hannah: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I've been, uh, I was going to say really lucky. I don't know if it's entirely luck, but I have just had like a really consistent run these last few years in terms of like no real big setbacks, uh, injury wise or even illness wise. Obviously you do get the odd cold here and there, but, um, nothing big. And so it has just been like a real consistent. speaker-1: Yeah, cool. Awesome. Thank you. speaker-0: Thank you. Bye bye. speaker-1: See ya. Hannah: just ticking through the weeks. don't do anything crazy, nothing like these big, I don't know, 30 something hour training weeks that people like to talk about, on social media, just like ticking through a volume that is like consistently maintainable for me without like going into that completely overreaching kind of situation. so I can back up the good weeks, occasionally have a recovery week when it's needed, but I've just been, yeah, consistently ticking it over and I have been seeing the progress, not only in the racing, but in the training. And I mean, that's fun. That's why we do it, right? Like it's, that's drive behind it, behind it all. So ⁓ been a really fun last few years. I've really enjoyed it. Jackie Hering: Yeah, yeah, kind of the same way. I feel like it's really feeling that progress, even if you're not pushing the hours to a higher limit, you can still feel the progress ⁓ how your workouts are going and in just generally how you're feeling. like ⁓ you that 20, 25 hours? Like are you somewhere in there or? Hannah: Yeah, I would say like, if you were to say like a standard week would be 25 for me, if I'm pushing it, I mean, I know I can definitely handle like a 27 hour week fine. But I wouldn't do it like back to back to back to back many, many weeks in row. would be like a few in a row and sort of the key time leading up into an Ironman, for example, like into Kona or whatever. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Right. Hannah: Yeah, it's anywhere from like that 20 as a lower week up to like 27, 28 is sort of where I sit. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, you gotta, that's the thing. You gotta just like find the sweet spot. What works for your body? I'm interested, did you, so I know you have had the same coach for the last couple of years. Did you have, have you have, how long have you been with your current coach? I guess is the question. And what did you do for coaching before that? Hannah: so I've been with Ben now for, think four years. It's coming up four years, probably from around about this ⁓ of the year. it's been a great four years. mean, ⁓ he been a big part of the success and the consistency, I think over the last few years, I haven't had any big injuries and so on. and ⁓ I've enjoyed, these last few years under Ben. Prior to that, I had a coach here in New Zealand. So for those people who don't know Ben's German base, so he's on the other side of the world to me. Yeah, I had a New Zealand coach before that and that was Bevan McKinnon. He coached me for quite a number of years as well. I ⁓ remember how many now, but it was quite a few. that's are basically, since being a professional, those are the only two coaches I've had. So sort of stuck with the same coach for a number of each time. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I mean, that's good. It's hard. mean, I had a ⁓ of coaches for only a year at a time and it is hard to ⁓ too many judgments based on one year alone. I mean, I really should have stuck it out, but I am just not capable apparently of doing that. So good for you for... Hannah: Yeah. 100%. Are you self-coached? Are you coached or self-coached? Jackie Hering: No, I've been self-coached since like kind of around a little before Kona time, around Kona time last year. It just works better for me. I've been the bulk of my time self-coached and I just, I don't know. It's not a time to dive into a psychology podcast about me here. So we'll save that for another time. But let's look back. You only started racing pro in 2017. This is what I'm talking about. Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Hering: I want to rewind a tiny bit because you are a doctor. Can you tell me how in the world you go and get a PhD and then decide one day doing your doctor work that you also want to go race pro triathlon? Please walk us through it. Hannah: You So I first started dabbling in triathlon when I was at university still studying, but that was when I was doing my undergrad, so engineering degree. And I hadn't done any swimming, biking or running prior, but I had, like I loved sport always as a kid, played every sport under the sun. And so anyway, I fell into the sport of triathlon through basically getting injured. playing my other sports and so started swimming. And then loved it, met everyone at the club, loved the atmosphere at the club. There was all these ranges of people. ⁓ sucked, but I actually really liked that was picking up a sport where I did suck ⁓ and... For me, was like, wonder how good I can get at a sport that is so new to me. And because I had played the same sports for so many years at that point, I had played netball. Netball is a popular sport here in New Zealand, probably not. not in America, but ⁓ volleyball. Jackie Hering: What sports? Okay. Hannah: a bit of hockey as well. And I had played these sports for just so many years that it was like, you kind of get to a certain level and then I was just there. And so then starting from scratch in a new sport was just like, such a fresh like perspective. And so I just was just enjoying learning to swim basically at first ⁓ Yeah, just carried on. And then I was still studying, went into a PhD. That was definitely my priority through those years was studying. So like, just was doing training, triathlon training around it, like in the mornings and the evenings. I was traveling a fair bit while I was doing my PhD. So then I would like go weeks where I did hardly anything, but I was still seeing a lot of progress and still just really enjoying it. And then... finished PhD and started working for the university straight away, like just took up a research role. ⁓ ⁓ I started taking ⁓ a little more seriously and started training a lot more. And then for a few years I did both. So I was working and I was ⁓ racing, mostly Australia, New Zealand, just because the travel was still difficult and only 70.3s. And I don't know, just... ⁓ I was getting better and I was loving it. And so even though I had spent seven years studying towards something, parked it ⁓ became a full-time athlete. So a lot of years to study. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Is it life a trip? Yeah, you just, you don't know what's gonna happen. That must've been around, it looks like you did all Asia Pacific kind of through 2020. Was that kind of like after COVID times, you kind of were like, all right, I'm gonna go for it. Hannah: I know exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I had actually decided to leave my job right before COVID hit. So I think COVID hit like the beginning of 2020. Is that right? It must be. And I had like literally just left my job. So it wasn't the best timing. Then the world was. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I think so. Well, you had a whole year to like hunker down and train. Hannah: Well, I guess so. guess so. Yeah, that's true. So yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah, well, that's really cool. That's a great journey to hear. And honestly, there's something freaky going on with people from Australia and New Zealand that you don't grow up a swimmer and then magically you're this good at swimming. Like, that's not normal. Just, I don't want to like crush the hopes of people listening that are trying to a pro triathlete and not be a swimmer growing up. But unless you're from a country down there, Hannah: you Jackie Hering: If you're from the U S and you're not swimming as a child, it's just not happening for you. So I don't know. I swam through college and I'm still this bad. Well, I was, I was good like 15 years ago, but it's like swimming catches up. The age catches up to you in the pool a little bit for some reason. So whatever I, I'm Hannah: You swim? Did you swim as a kid? you? Okay. not bad! ⁓ swimming. Yeah. Jackie Hering: I'm not trying to get much better. I'm just trying to stay where I'm at in the pool. you know, there was. I feel like I've heard you, maybe you don't want to talk about this or maybe you do, but I know somewhere in there you had like a handful of injuries. Was that part of just getting your body used to the training load or were you doing things differently that were not like supporting you as an athlete? Like, what was what was the kind of the the situation there? Hannah: Yeah, that's good enough. basically the second. I made some stupid decisions I think. And I think it, I mean it was a combination of things for sure. It was kind of that time where I stepped up to the Ironman distance which I think is like a whole nother stress on the body anyway, just moving ⁓ up distance. no, we did... ⁓ With my coach at the time, did decide to play around with the latest trend at that time, which was low carb. ⁓ that was a ⁓ decision. We will never be going back there. Why did that become such a craze for a while? Jackie Hering: ⁓ yeah, fun. Well, you know what was funny is friend that lives here that was my training partner at that time was coached by your same coach. And he also on this like fasting kick where he would try to do these like, not kidding you, four hour rides and like not eat anything and not eat anything for like two and a half hours. So then I'd have to drag this guy's half dead body to the gas station and like get him like a Snickers bar, cause he's literally gonna pass out. Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Hering: I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't know what you're trying to do here, but I just don't think this is getting you your best. Hannah: I know, it's crazy. Like now looking back on it, you're like, why did we consider these long, fasted rides or like no carbs for breakfast and then go on train for a day? Like it's such a stupid thing to do, but it was like what people were telling us was like the best thing to, mean, stepping up to the Ironman distance, everyone was like, you need to be a fat burner. it's like, okay. Jackie Hering: That was all that term. That whole idea was like all the rage though. And I it originated somehow from like Dan Plews. I have no beef with Dan Plews whatsoever. I've never been coached by this guy, but I do remember he was like big on this topic and suddenly everyone's doing it. And I'm like, at the time my kids were really little and I'm like, I cannot make it. I think I was even, I had just barely finished like. breastfeeding sky, like, actually can't make it an hour without carbs. like even just living as a human, not even exercising, just like being alive. So I never got on that trend luckily, cause I probably want to also screwed myself up. Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jackie Hering: ⁓ that's crazy. So you got over that, got better. Started eating crap loads of carbs. Hannah: Yeah. So pretty much. Yeah. that was a good, like 18 months, two years of like, bone stress. had two bone stress injuries and they were like kind of awkwardly, ⁓ like just got over one, started training for a while and then got a second one. So it was such a long time of just like not really properly training or racing through, those couple of years, which was frustrating and quite a difficult time. You definitely start to wonder like, I done? Like, this, am I ever gonna be back to like, at least where I was before? And my body had to like figure itself out and like, yeah, ⁓ it a process to come out of that for sure. And then feel like I honestly, just these last four or five years have just started feeling more myself again. And then that's when like the progress has started happening. So. Yeah, it's been a much more, ⁓ smoother last few years, thankfully. No more bone stress injuries over the touch wood ⁓ over the last few years. And it's just, yeah, I've been enjoying it and feeling like really healthy and like feeling like I'm thriving, not just surviving through the training. And I always tell myself when I'm in like the thick of training, like I need to feel like I'm thriving, not just surviving. Cause you can really survive through. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Hannah: big training weeks, but then how much are you actually absorbing? And so, yeah, that's always like sort of the thing that I tell myself, am I thriving here? So yeah, it's good. Jackie Hering: Yeah, that's like, I feel like I understand that feeling, because it's, if you've done hard things, you can certainly kind of like grind through it and you can just like do it. Hannah: So you can do it and you just turn into like almost automatic mode. sometimes you don't even realize you're there. But just don't think that's when you're fully adapting or like adapting to the training. So I think that's a feeling to avoid. Jackie Hering: Yeah, ⁓ for sure. mean, nowadays when I kind of get into the thick of it, when I'm doing like the major stuff, I'll get towards the end or I'll, you kind of, you're always paying attention to how you're feeling. my body doing? What am I up to? Especially when you're coaching yourself, ⁓ one else is really checking up on you. But a lot of times what I'm asking myself, like, is this ⁓ necessary? if I feel like I'm getting to that point where I'm like, Hannah: Yes. Jackie Hering: really pushing, like I'm at the bottom of my current barrel. Is this necessary? And then you have to be like completely honest, like, yes, I have to get this done. This is gonna help me or like, no, you might dig too deep and you might hurt yourself here. So it's tough. Hannah: Yeah. Yeah, it's a hard balance because there's definitely times where you're like, yeah, I am definitely fatigued, but you need those times like in key moments leading into an I-Man, right? But it just can't be for too long and at the wrong time, I think. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. So if there's like the main take home, like what do you think you understand overall now that you didn't really have a handle on in those years that you were injured? Hannah: think, well, definitely the fueling component has changed massively. And I think we're in a great place now where people are embracing the carbs and having so like many more. And I think it's showing in the results. So I think just that awareness around fueling and then, also just paying attention to how the body is recovering. Like it's fine to go into those big training weeks where you feel fatigued, but how long is that fatigue lasting? after a big day, know, can I go to sleep after a big day and wake up in the morning and feel like good again? And if I'm not, then you have to start questioning, do I need an extra recovery day? So I think just through time, I've just really started to learn to listen to my body a lot more. And I think if I had anything to tell my younger self, it would be to just really start. trying to learn to listen to your body earlier and like take responsibility of that as well. Don't rely so much on a coach to tell you if you should train or not. They don't know how you're feeling. So it's up to the athlete to really be responsible for how they're feeling ⁓ ⁓ with the coach to those decisions. Don't rely on them. So I think it's probably, yeah, something along those lines. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, that's right on. And that, I think kind of sums up why I personally struggle with coaches sometimes is because I like to do what I'm supposed to do. And I think a lot of people get in this category where you like to do what you're supposed to do. You want to feel like you're staying on the right track. You want to feel like you're doing the work needed. And sometimes I think that can cause you to dull your own inner voice, which may... which early in your triathlon life, you might not have it dialed and you might not, you actually just don't know what to do to get yourself there. But if you've been doing it a while, you do kind of know what can get you there. also you're probably better at listening. So it's like, it goes both ways where in the beginning you need a coach, but you also have to like tune into you and not let the coach override this tough one. Hannah: section. Yeah, mean, and that's part of the reason why I do really enjoy being coached by Ben. I feel like we have a good balance of he sets the program, but also he's on the other side of the world to me, right? Like he's sleeping when I'm awake. So there's a real good balance of him setting the program. So I don't have to think about it, but like when it comes to the training day, I have to make decisions on my own, whether like I'm up for the training or not. And he is totally like leaving that up to me being like, I need to make the decisions around how I feel. And he will support that. Whereas I think a lot of coaches probably wanting to help a hundred percent, but maybe help a little too much for professionals. I think when you're starting out, like you say, it's important to have that guidance. But yeah, when you're more experienced, I think there's a lot of benefit in listening to yourself. So. Jackie Hering: For sure. Yeah. All right. We already, we covered a lot of stuff there, but I want to kind of switch it a little bit because I think you're consistent in racing. I personally place high value on consistency in racing. think that to me, being able to be consistent over a year is, I hold much higher in regard than being able to slam out one good race a year. I think it's just. It just shows that you're well-rounded, that you have a handle on yourself. I think that's awesome. So I want to talk a little bit about just kind of mindset, how you approach racing, what you're paying attention to ⁓ the race. Most of all, is that specific data? Is that how you're feeling? Is it like a mix of these things? ⁓ ⁓ you mainly looking at? Hannah: It's definitely a mix. Yeah, I have the data there available, sometimes it doesn't help to look, depending on how you're feeling. Jackie Hering: Right? just like swipe it over to the map where you see nothing. ⁓ Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. So I think for me, it's always race day needs to come down to how you're feeling first, but I do like to have the data there. I do like to pay attention to it, but if need to look away, I will. ⁓ And been numerous ⁓ Ironmans where the data has been, I mean, don't, ⁓ it's not And I look, I just swipe it away thinking like, maybe this is not my day. And then, um, if you take the time to just go by how you feel, the day can turn around and come back to you. So, I mean, that was Kona, honestly, last year I got onto the bike. I had terrible legs, didn't look at the power and then finally started to feel like good. And then I ended up fourth. Like I honestly thought I was having a bad day, uh, at the start of the bike. So. Jackie Hering: Yeah. So who were you? Were you with people? I'd like to hear about Kona actually. Can you tell me about your day in Kona? Hannah: Yeah, so I didn't have a good swim. found the swim crazy in Kona. Like I got beaten up so bad. ⁓ I mean, I ⁓ ended up next to Chelsea Sodaro and she like attacked me at one point I felt like and I went backwards really like. Jackie Hering: ⁓ yeah. Hannah: And then it happened again. And then I was just swimming on my own. My ⁓ swimskin zip came undone. Anyway, so I was a little bit like coming out of the water, I guess, mildly panicked just because the swim was not fun. Got onto the bike. And like I said, I didn't have great legs onto the bike. was like just ahead of the big group. I think you were probably in that big group of like Kat and I think that Laura ⁓ everywhere. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, like everybody. Hannah: And so I was like just ahead of that group. It's kind of with a couple other people, but kind of solo. Uh, and then basically just try to find my legs and let the group. I could see the group was there when we did the little turnaround through town. And so I was like, oh, well, I'm waiting for them. And then from there, it was just sort of, mean, I don't know how you found the bike, but it's quite chaotic on that. on the queen K it's just like a huge group. You're trying to like find your position. and it just felt like I was, yeah, I don't know being swept into the group and the group dynamics for at least the first half felt good by the halfway up Harvey basically. And then got away in a little group with like cat and Laura from like a good chunk of the rest of the group and just stayed with him to the end of the bike. And then I ran my own marathon and it was just, Yeah, it was crazy to see the dynamics of the race unfold around me, to be honest. just felt like I along, doing my own thing and then ended up fourth. I mean, there were so many. Yeah. I mean, ⁓ I, were times where I actually felt terrible. Like I like, this is not good, ⁓ but then just, it's amazing if you just keep like. Jackie Hering: Isn't that great? Yeah. Hannah: I don't know, you're stubborn and you just carry on. Like how the day you go through those waves of feeling good and bad and the day can just sort of, I don't know, you end up actually doing all right. it just felt like that. was like, yeah, I don't know. It was a crazy day. did have, mean, overall, I guess it was a good day, but Iron Man is crazy. It's just, there's a million emotions in one day. Jackie Hering: There's so much in one day. And I think being able to just hold it together and like have a run anywhere around three hours in Kona, it's gonna turn out to be a good day. And I think that's the main thing is like, I raged too hard on the bike and it's actually better I think to have no legs at the start of the bike. I had amazing legs when I got on the bike. And actually that was what caused my problems is I was like, Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Hering: I'm having my day, you know, and you just feel too good. So then you go and blow it up because you're dumb and you're not dumb. So you didn't do that. I had to learn the. I had to learn the lesson the hard way. And that's good. I mean, I aspire to put together such a nice race like that. And it's interesting to hear that you didn't feel good the whole time like. Hannah: Yeah, okay. ⁓ I've done that a times, don't worry. you Jackie Hering: I bet that's most people. There's probably like a few people that just felt amazing all day. It's rare. Hannah: Yeah, I mean to feel good in Kona too, I mean that is even rarer, like it's just, it's brutal, right? So probably everyone's feeling wildly terrible. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, think they are. So it sounds like you're mostly on feeling. Are ⁓ still with Garmin or no? No. Well, you were for a long time. Maybe they'll have you back. If you could have one thing on your Garmin, like what would be the one thing? Let's say you're just feeling okay, but you only get to look at, you only get one thing available, your whole bike ride. What would you put? Hannah: No. Whole bike ride. What would I have? I'd probably have something, I would either have like, I'd probably have speed. I don't know, yeah, speed or distance. Like in case I need to count through the kilometers. That was me in Texas, counting through kilometers. Or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. mean, I race. Jackie Hering: Really? Okay. Ha ha! no, then it's going bad if you're counting the kilometers. ⁓ Hannah: I've raced with no power accidentally before and I don't mind it. I don't really look at heart rate much. Occasionally I will look at it if I feel like my heart rate might be high. I'll just check in and see is it high? Because if it is, I'll want to like back off slightly, let it settle. But otherwise I don't really look at heart rate. So ⁓ mean, ⁓ feel like it depends on the course. Speed can be helpful because if you want to just try and like... carry speed, right? ⁓ It's quite helpful. And if you're in a group dynamic and you are say riding second wheel, pay attention to speed and then have a turn at the front, like with the aim of kind of holding that speed at least, you know? So. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or if you're sitting behind them and you're like saw your speed when you were at front and then you're behind them and you're like, ⁓ like this isn't this is not working. It's you got to just go up there again. Yeah, that's interesting. My my default, I feel like I would say power. But then there's so many times, especially during Iron Man, where you just actually don't want to see the power and you're just Hannah: Yeah, yeah, this is not good. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Jackie Hering: It would sometimes just be better not to have that. So yeah, that's interesting. What about for running? What would you put on your watch? Hannah: Yeah, I think so. probably would put pace. ⁓ don't look a huge amount, but I do like to just probably for those first couple of kilometers, because it's so easy to ⁓ out too fast when you come off that bike. Like it's just so hard to gauge the speed you're going. So just being aware in that first, I'd say five kilometers on the bike. ⁓ mean, sorry, onto the run. But other than that, I ⁓ I really look. ⁓ I actually, I think you said this in the pro panel in Texas that you like to just run by feel for an Ironman and I agree with that. that's only a ⁓ new thing to me. I used to look a lot more. But running by feel for, I think the Ironman marathon is a good way to go. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But for sure, I do look at it. You know, I was running with Grace Beck at the start of Texas and we were doing hilarious. Honestly, I wish we would have had like somebody recording us because we're trying to figure out kilometer and mile pace. Like it was comical. And we both finally were like, let's stop doing this and just run. She's I'll go the pace. I think I'm supposed to go. You go the pace. You think you're supposed to go. Hannah: you Yeah. Yeah. you Jackie Hering: And we were pretty sure those were the same paces. We just couldn't. Hannah: Couldn't you just say, I want to run a 250 something five marathon. And then she'd like, yeah, me too. Couldn't you figure it out that way though? ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah, we kind of tried saying that. I don't know. It wasn't working, but we settled into what we thought was appropriate. did need, honestly, we did need the watch to like slow us down a little bit at the start. So that ⁓ a time I look at it. But in a half, I don't look at it at all because if I'm raging too hard, if I'm able to go as fast as my body will go. Hannah: Yes. Okay. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Like that kind of determines how fast that half marathon is going to be, because pretty much whatever I'm going out in is just what we're trying to do. Hannah: Thank you. Okay, yeah, I definitely still look and a half because I can still go out too fast and fade. Jackie Hering: See, you still, you got some wheels. You're a little younger than me. You can still, you can still get it. ⁓ I don't know. So what do you feel like, like what's been your one race? Do you have one or maybe more than one where you have had that like, just like the day where you just, it feels easy where you're just like. Hannah: Yeah, but I'm not forced into a fade. That's the problem. You are just... I'll be. Jackie Hering: just rolling all day and it just feels like you're getting it done, not a huge problem. Hannah: Yeah. I'm trying to think. I mean, there's probably been one or two. I don't feel like it happens that often. ⁓ I actually think New Zealand just in March was a pretty good day for me. I mean, I had some troubles. I dropped my chain twice at the start of the bike. But in terms of how I felt all day, I just kind of went into the race so relaxed ⁓ like just wanting to enjoy it. Jackie Hering: It does not. Hannah: I just felt like that all day. I had some issues at the end of the marathon with like slight crampingness, but my energy all day was good. I enjoyed the bike because I had company. it, I felt good at the end of the bike, similar to the start of the bike. Like it was one of those days where it did feel like it didn't take that much out of me at the end of the day. and I crossed the finish line feeling like, cool, like this is good. and I feel like that was a, that was one of those days where I was just kind of, I dunno, it was, it was a nice day. I enjoyed it. So, other than that, I can't really remember any that were just ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Hannah: I feel like you're always kind of battling at some point, right? But some days have been better than others. But yeah, that would probably be the only one I can think of. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah, it's nice to have those type of days and it's true. think it's maybe once a year, maybe if you're lucky twice a year, maybe once every other year. mean, it of depends on how all things are going, but usually I think we're going into races with a different mindset. There's a lot of different things going on at Hannah: Yes. Yeah. Jackie Hering: every single race pretty much. I guess like, what do you, what, I guess let's talk about what your next races are, kind of the mindset you're taking into the next part of the year and you know, what your, what would be like a win for you for the rest of the year. Hannah: So next races, I am doing happy Valley, 70.3 Boise 70.3. And then I'm hoping to carry on sort of that middle distance block into T 100 Vancouver, if I can get a start. so it's quite a nice middle block coming up now. ⁓ ⁓ I do quite like to focus on one or the other and not mix too much unless I'm using a half as like a build race into a nightmare. So yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to it. really enjoy the half distance training more than I enjoy the full distance training, if I'm honest, but then I enjoy racing the full distance probably more. ⁓ yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. It'll be ⁓ a block ⁓ over the U S again. And what am I aiming for with these races? I don't know, guess just consistency. would like to keep continuing progressing the run for me. I haven't ⁓ felt I've nailed a half distance run in a while or middle distance. I did a lot of T100s last year and the run was improving across the year, which was really nice to see. And I'd kind of just like continuing that on and progressing the run. And also the swim, I need to keep working on the swim as always. Jackie Hering: ⁓ my gosh, I totally forgot till now. You swam right before this. And I do this thing where I see whatever Hannah posts for her swims on Instagram and I screenshot it and I go copy it, except for she's swimming meters and I'm swimming yards. And then I add five seconds to the interval. sometimes if I'm with my swim group, we'll sometimes attempt your same interval. Cause then I'm like drafting behind the guys, but. Hannah: Yes. I guess. Jackie Hering: Let's hear what you did today just to give us all something to go try if it was good. Or you can tell me yes, whatever day in the last couple of days has been like a good. Hannah: Well, did a, I actually did a test set yesterday in the pool. So that was really hard. I've actually just taken, I've got a new swim coach as of now, basically. And he wanted to put me through a test set. So yesterday I had to do a swim where I did 50 max, 100 max, 200 max, ⁓ 400 ⁓ twice. it was, yeah. ⁓ It brutal. Like, yeah. Jackie Hering: No. No! No! Hannah: So ⁓ can... ⁓ Jackie Hering: How long are you just sitting on the wall in between, or you do an easy hundred, or what's your rest between? Hannah: It was good rest to start with. So the 50 was on two minutes. The 100 was on three minutes. The 200 was on four minutes. then the Jackie Hering: writing this down not that I'm gonna do it cuz I refuse to swim that that hard okay keep going Hannah: And then the 400 was on six minutes and then straight back into the next round. So no extra rest in between. I mean, 400 on six minutes, you don't get as much rest as the others obviously, but yeah. Jackie Hering: Okay. And what was your, what'd you make of that? Did you feel good about it? Were you like, I hate my life or like what? Somewhere in between. Hannah: I basically did what I thought I would do. So I, have quite good takeout speed. the first 50 and 100. Yeah, my weakness sits somewhere else. Don't worry. so takeout speed in a race is like never an issue for me. like hold myself back and like put my head down. You know, you don't breathe for the first 15 strokes, whatever. Do my first 15 strokes. ⁓ Jackie Hering: I know. No, I don't know about that. Hannah: Okay. Yeah. Okay. This like, I don't know, 10 to 15 strokes, do a few hard strokes, try and get out in front of everyone. I do that and I look to the side and I'm like clear, happy days. Not an issue ever in a race for me, that part. But then you go into like the next part of the race and I, that's when I start to struggle. So that like, before it gets like, maybe, maybe that's not a problem. Jackie Hering: That's because you didn't breathe for 15 strokes. Hannah: Anyway, so then I find it hard for like a portion before you like properly settle in like a group or whatever. So yesterday's swim, I started out great in the first 50 and then it was just like this lactate build and I was just dying to the end. it was grim, but anyway, good test set. We'll learn to improve it. Jackie Hering: Wow, so did you have a group to be swimming that with or were you like on a solo mission? Hannah: ⁓ I swam it with Matt Kerr. You know Matt Kerr, he's another Kiwi pro. Yeah, so he lives here where I live. And so we will do, when I'm not swimming with squad, we'll do try and link up for swims together. Just swimming on your own is no fun, let's be honest. So yeah, I have a few different people I will try and link up with if I'm not swimming with the squad and he's one of them. So he got dragged into it. Jackie Hering: Yeah ⁓ I bet he loved it though. He's just like into that hard stuff. He lived here over last summer. Hannah: Uh-uh, I know. ⁓ that's right, he did. Jackie Hering: with our Kiwi friend that lives here. Yeah. Hannah: Okay, ⁓ actually I think I remember seeing you guys going for a ride together or something Jackie Hering: Yeah, and I tried to teach him how to train easier, but I don't think he took to it too well. No, he doesn't like that. He likes to go hard. Hannah: No, he trains. ⁓ Yeah, he just trains. Like some weeks I'm like, I'm pretty sure you've doubled my hours, but okay. Jackie Hering: Yeah. I tried to explain you don't have to do so much and it doesn't have to be so hard, but whatever. Some people just like getting into it. Yeah. Loves it. Well, I've written that set down and that's something I will not be doing, but I will share it with the people in case they want to swim as fast as you. You know, I did watch the start of Iron Man Texas ⁓ I did take note of your beautiful takeout speed because they had like Hannah: loves it. Yes! Jackie Hering: an overhead view of the start of the swim. And I'm always, I'm trying to get better because my takeout speed is terrible. Cause obviously I'm not holding my breath for more than two strokes. So there you guys go. But yeah, I mean, you were, you were there and I know you said you hate the water there. It is nasty. It's murky. It's yeah. Hannah: Mm, yeah. ⁓ just gross. Yeah, I don't really don't like that swim. I was swimming on my own and just thinking about how much I hating that I could not see anything under the water. Jackie Hering: I ⁓ it makes you feel better, I had a swim where I was so most annoying way to swim, actually, ⁓ like breath, like almost holding hands with someone. I'm like, can ⁓ really me. I'm like trying to relax and do my thing. And I'm like, why is her arm keep being by my arm? But we didn't, you know, neither person wanted to budget all. So. Anywho. ⁓ Hannah: Uh, so annoying. It happens. Yeah. Yeah. Did you take the, so found something interesting after the race. And I think pro try news brought it up about how some people took like the fast line through the boys and some people kept the boys to their left. So I swam with the boys all to my left through the canal path. Jackie Hering: We did too. Hannah: Yeah, but then I saw like, think ⁓ front, I don't know. I saw some video of some of the women and obviously the front men definitely, and they just cut straight through that corner. And I'm like, I did not know we could do that. They us, keep your to your left. Jackie Hering: I don't think, so we went through the middle of the red ones as we were meant to, right? And then I thought, I don't remember any specific direction, but I was just following the people I was with. we are, our little group, we were like, like right in line with the orange buoys the whole canal way. So I don't know. I don't know what the front girls did. I'm not sure. I think they were a little bit towards the inside. Hannah: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, maybe they did this to me. Yeah, I'm not sure. Jackie Hering: of the orange, honestly, I think that that's not really on us or anybody in particular. As far as I can tell, I think if there's a real specific thing, they have to say it like right before the swim start or something. I mean, it's hard when it's a wide open canal and they're, I don't know. Hannah: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah, find it really hard to sight through that swim. It looks so simple on paper, but through the first part, obviously not the canal, you can't go wrong, but that first bit I find quite disorientating. I don't know if I'm seeing the boys that from the coming down and because I breathe to my left and I keep like sighting the wrong boys. I don't know. And then like, anyway. ⁓ Jackie Hering: That swim is just not your best friend, maybe. Hannah: It's not. I said to my co-chappers, we're not going back there. I just cannot handle that stuff. Jackie Hering: well, yeah, there's plenty of nice clear swims out there. I'm sure you'll find some. I want to change gears and talk about a topic since this is a podcast about women's racing in particular. I think most of our listeners are going to be women. And so I feel like a topic that is interesting. And I personally get loads of questions about is just the idea of like motherhood, how, how pro triathletes especially like think about. ⁓ starting a family or not starting a family. You are a happily married woman. You have a great husband. You and I have kind of talked about a little about this before. Like you don't have to divulge your personal plans. can talk more broadly about just the idea of some, know, obviously I think we hit our peak in our mid thirties, which is also kind of a time most people would want to start a family. What do you think about the landscape? I guess and ⁓ How do you feel it is these days? Hannah: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's tricky. It's, tricky, but I think it is becoming more accepted. ⁓ also, we are seeing more and more examples of women doing both successfully, which is really great for myself and for other professional women wanting to have a successful career and also have a family. We, yeah, it's tricky to know when is the right time still, but think it's really positive knowing that it's possible at least when it is the right time. And ⁓ yeah, I I don't know exactly when we will have We do want to have kids at some point. But ⁓ I think you can when you want to, right? Like you don't have to have... your kids in your early 30s, there's plenty of women who have kids in their late 30s now and like post-career and then there's also plenty who have kids right in smack bang in the middle and come back post. So yeah, I mean you just have to kind of figure out what might be right for you individually and I really love that there are so many examples of great women. doing both, mid-career and post-career and early career like yourself. So yeah, I mean, I think it's great. think it is ⁓ totally We are definitely capable of doing both. Obviously it requires a bit of time away from the sport, but I love the idea ⁓ of trying to back at least post like having kids and giving it a crack depending on. know how it goes you can't like guarantee any of these things right so yeah we will see. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah, think that's right on. I mean, I had kids younger and I was, I don't know, it was like, actually I was thinking, ⁓ as told you, was thinking about you all morning on my bike ride and thinking about this podcast and trying to get prepared. And I had the thought of like bringing up this topic, not to make you uncomfortable by any means, but just to, I just want to speak about it because I think. The landscape has definitely changed. I was thinking back to when I got pregnant, which was towards the early start of my, you know, the beginning more parts of my racing, but actually in hindsight, it was at an extremely, I think, pivotal time where I had just started to get good. I had won an Ironman, I had won a 70.3 and then I got pregnant. And in hindsight, that would have actually been the time to begin like, building my sponsors. could have started to get more sponsors and make some money, but strangely at that time, it didn't really like occur to me like that this was a pivotal time. So I feel kind of lucky that I wasn't like really worried about that. But also ⁓ then, like you would just get dropped from all your sponsors right away. I did have some sponsors and a few of them kind of like loosely stuck with me. ⁓ Hannah: Yeah. Jackie Hering: but most were just like, whatever, go do your mom thing. And I feel like the whole conversation and landscape has definitely changed since then. It's in contracts, it's in a lot of contracts now even. Hannah: Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yes, it is. Yeah, I'd say I don't know 100%. I don't know if it's in all of my contracts, but I think it's in at least half. So yeah, I mean, it's definitely there's progress there. Do I think there's still more progress to make? Probably. I don't entirely know because I haven't been through the process. So I don't know. But it's definitely moving in the right direction. And I think it is good to talk about because hopefully that encourages that to continue. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I think one of my main goals, I guess, with this podcast is to just get more eyes on the women's racing, get more young women interested in racing. And I think a way to grow the sport is for women to realize you actually can do both things. It is very possible to have a family and do the sport. it's not, I think a lot of women leave early. before they've reached their potential because maybe they do want to go start a family. And I just think there's probably more in there that you might not, that a lot of people aren't getting out. So it is a topic I'm going to cover a lot. I hope, I don't know, I hope we keep seeing more moms coming out here doing it.