Jackiehering: Hey everyone, and welcome to the women's race podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Herring, and I'm so glad you're here with me today. This is a podcast where we do race breakdowns behind the scenes and talk about athlete stories, specifically about women's professional triathlon. I am currently racing as a professional triathlete in my practically millionth season, but I'm still going. And we talked to other pro women triathletes and today we have an exceptional triathlete and a new mom who seems to somehow seamlessly navigated becoming a mom and also transitioning to middle distance racing at the same time. I'm so excited to hear some of her stories. have Sophie Evans who previously before she got married not too long ago was Sophie Caldwell. She's on here today and we're going to hear all about her transition to middle distance. What

Sophie: Yeah.

Jackiehering: has happened throughout her career. I want to hear about some of that and then also what it's like becoming a mom and what that also is like being married to another professional endurance athlete. This is super interesting to me. So welcome, Sophie. Thanks for chatting with me today.

Sophie: No, thanks for inviting me on. I'm excited. Yeah, champion women's sport. So yeah, I'm excited.

Jackiehering: Yeah, that's kind of what we're doing here. You're freshly into middle distance, but I want to kind of start with your early career. Were you always a triathlete? I know you had tons of success in short course, but when did that exactly start for you?

Sophie: I've done triathlon since I was eight years old. So I've done it quite a long time now. it was always active as a kid. you know, did like swim lessons from, you know, being a baby and stuff like that. yeah, mom and, and that just thought, ⁓ we saw a local triathlon advertised. So off we went down and yeah, had a 50 pound Halfords mountain bike and it was cold and I didn't have a tri suit. So I put on one of my mom's big t-shirts cause it was quick to put on in transition. ⁓ and yeah, that's kind of where it started and did all the junior series that we have over here in the UK. ⁓ we're quite lucky that the domestic scenes for children is, really good. And actually, yeah, now 23 years later, it's even, it's even better. but yeah, did all the children's races, the junior races got involved with British triathlon and, yeah, kind of had a very, ⁓ linear progression of a journey through from eight years old to kind of where I'm at now, I'd say.

Jackiehering: That's really neat. I love that. haven't, my daughter's eight years old right now and she's just started, not that I necessarily want her to be a triathlete, cause I don't know. mean, sometimes it's tough, but she seems to have a real interest. think it's just cause what I do. Like she just loves getting in with swim and, and riding her bike and doing some of these little kids tries. So that's cool. It can actually provide a pathway. What type of things when you started really getting into that?

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jackiehering: the main ITU scene. What were some things that you loved about it? You must have enjoyed it for to do it that seriously.

Sophie: Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me was the friendship group. And when you're younger, that's probably the overriding reason why you keep going. Obviously there's the love of sport. I wouldn't say I was an exceptional kid at anything. was good, but I wasn't turning up and winning everything I entered. But I was very fortunate. We had a good swim club, a good run club, a good triathlon club, all those things. And that friendship group. For me, probably what carried me through a lot of it. ⁓ And then all the way through to, yeah, kind of getting onto British Triathlon talent programs and stuff like that. Like I've known Georgia Taylor Brown since we were 15 years old. And yeah, like that kind of friendship when you're going away and we're going, you know, we went to Youth Olympic Festival in Australia and stuff like that. Yeah, kind of just felt like this dream that, you know, get to travel with your friends and do triathlon and see cool stuff. probably wasn't until I was late teens, I was like, could actually like do this as more of like a career, so to speak. yeah, but I think, yeah, growing up, was definitely that friendship, enjoyment, traveling, all those things that, yeah, I wouldn't have been able to do without without sport.

Jackiehering: Yeah, it's really different, I think, over in Europe compared to here. don't really have such, maybe in some places, but nothing like that was ever by me, such tight-knit, specifically triathlon groups. have, of course, the swim team is really huge over here, but not really cycling, not really triathlon. Years ago, actually, before I had kids, I tried to start a little kids' try team here. ⁓

Sophie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jackiehering: There was interest and parents want to do it, you really need like a full on structure to make that successful.

Sophie: Yeah, I think because we're so fortunate in the UK that we have great facilities up and down the country that it makes it easier to tag on junior stuff to like adult things within leisure centres or, you know, like we're obviously a lot more condensed population wise than you guys. So yeah, quite a lot of our, you know, adult tri clubs have a junior section and you know, within

Jackiehering: Yeah.

Sophie: the grassroots races, there'll be junior races put on as well. you know, comparing to where it was when I was eight years old to now, like it's had a massive shift forward. But even, yeah, even back then it was, it was a great platform for children and even more so now like, similar to you, if Phoebe turned around and said she wants to do triathlon, I'd be like, ⁓ it's a lot of thieves. But if she did want to do it, there would be loads for her to get involved and do. So yeah, we are quite lucky in that aspect.

Jackiehering: Yeah, that's pretty cool. Well, you went on to have a lot of great years in short course. I mean, we don't have to hash through all that, but of course, I've been thinking about you all morning and researching you. you have podium at least practically every year. You have a handful of wins in the short course stuff. You can talk through some of that if you want. But what I want to know since I'm in middle and long course, was there a point in that? in those years of short course racing, was there a moment you started to feel like, want to dabble or I want to look into longer course? Or was that just recently?

Sophie: If you'd have asked me five years ago, I'd have been like, no, not doing that, not getting on a farm trial bike, not for me. But I think as I've gotten older and everything that happened for me around Olympic Games, I just needed something else. And scene of 70.3 and T100 and that middle distance became much more exciting to me. I was much more... aware of it. was watching the races, was following races and yeah, when everything happened back in 2024 and there was T100 London and it was kind of like, I'll put my name down if I get a start, great. And I did. And that was kind of my first, yeah, I towed the line ⁓ at London. ⁓ And then all through being pregnant, I was following all the races and really kind of like, yeah, I was just excited by it. ⁓ And I always knew that when I came back from having Phoebe that I was definitely going to do a bit of long course or middle course probably can't quit long course can I? It's not Ironman. So middle distance, me it seems very long. So middle distance racing and yeah, see what, see if I enjoyed it, see if I was any good at it and just give myself something new and fresh to see where I wanted to go really. yeah, I've only done

Jackiehering: It's definitely middle distance, yeah.

Sophie: Well, I've done 170.3 and one T100 before having Phoebe, but I've enjoyed it so far. I've enjoyed the challenge. I've enjoying learning something new and I've done the same thing for a long time. And yes, you evolve as you get older and training looks different and you know, but principally it's the same, same thing. I've done it for such a long time now that I was definitely ready to change up training, change up the year, change up races and Yeah, I have enjoyed it so far, so hopefully continue to do that.

Jackiehering: Yeah, I follow short course and long course. just really enjoy watching all types of triathlons. So I was kind of witnessing from the outside your Olympic drama that was unfolding. And it sounds like that was probably a really rough experience. And it makes a lot of sense to me that you would be like, I am done with short course now. And I'm sorry that that happened to you. That sounds rough. ⁓ If do you want to go into any of that or should we just say like peace out short course? We're good.

Sophie: Yeah, I don't. I think if you'd have asked me when everything was happening, I was at the point really where I didn't know if wanted to do triathlon at all, let alone whether that looks like ITU or, you know, getting on a TT bike. I didn't. I was at the point where I was like, you know what, just, don't want to do this anymore. And then, yeah, I fell pregnant with Phoebe and it wasn't until kind of like the January, February. everyone was getting ready to race and I kind of was a bit like, Oh, do you know what actually like, do quite miss it. yeah, like, now I'm thinking about race and I'm a bit jealous of everyone getting ready to race. yeah, then I didn't have it till the May. And at that point I was like, no, do you know what? do want to come back and race. And I've definitely not completely shut the door on short course. Like for me, The pull of an Olympics is still there and I'm just figuring out this year and next year if that pull is enough to keep me in short course. And I've been very open with, with people and sponsors and British triathlon and people like that. And yeah, I don't know if it's going to be enough for me at now. I don't know if I'm going to be good enough to try and qualify. Like I'm not just going to blindly put myself into short course racing. Like those girls can run unbelievably quick and yeah, I. I'm not sure that I could ever, well, I know I can't, I'm never going to be as quick as a Cassandra, a Beth, a Leone, like I'm never going to be able to run that quick. ⁓ So we just, yeah, this year is all about kind of figuring out if, if it's enough for me enough for our family dynamics or actually whether the middle distance racing is something I enjoy more and I'd it's better for us. So we'll see, we'll see what the year brings and hopefully I'll have some answers to my questions by the end of the year.

Jackiehering: Yeah, I mean, your attitude sounds so good. It's stuff that you don't really, once you have a kid, it's hard to like force things that don't feel like they'll work for the dynamic of the family. No matter, you know, if you want the Olympic thing, that seems to me that it involves extensively more travel and random things and races that you might not feel super passionate about, but you got to do them anyway for the sake of points or whatever it is that.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackiehering: middle distance you have a lot more kind of control of what you're doing where you're going you could Do all your races within Europe and and not have any big mega travels ⁓ But yeah, I get I never was fast enough at anything to even look at the Olympics ⁓ Which is why I just started straight away with Ironman But but I can see that that would be a pull and you're definitely a fast enough swimmer so like

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, I think that. Yeah. We need to the breakaways back on these get the breakaways back off. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the flexibility I think that is the is a pull for me now in the middle distance stuff that yeah, had was originally in race Abu Dhabi to over my year and then obviously I got cancelled. ⁓

Jackiehering: At least you, you gotta get that rolling again. Just talk to Georgia. I mean, you guys have a thing. So, yeah.

Sophie: And then it was kind of like, ⁓ we'll go to Samarkand and you can race that. And it was literally two days before Lanzarote World Cup. I just absolutely freaked out with the thought of leaving Phoebe to go to Samarkand for this awful travel. I was, and I literally just messaged my coach, this whole message of just like, I can't go and race. I don't want to race it. It's stressing me out like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he literally replied to me, was like, it's fine if you don't want to race it. It's completely your decision, but I just felt so overwhelmed at the thought of leaving her, which at that point I hadn't even left her for one night. I have left her for one night now. and I'm going there and doing this race. I just, yeah, it just became, I just felt very overwhelmed, which is not very normal for me. ⁓ so yeah, the, flexibility of travel and racing and stuff makes it lot easier, especially with Tom as well. Like.

Jackiehering: Yeah.

Sophie: Yeah, it's just working out how we're going to fit everything in, I suppose.

Jackiehering: Yeah, that's the name of the game. mean, does it... Do you feel more comfortable? It sounds like it's a little stressful just working out the travel and things, but overall, when you're like weak of the race, do you feel more comfortable thinking about going to a short course race? Because you know exactly what to expect. You've done it a million times. Or do you like the idea of the newness and the adventure of the middle distance? Like you just did Valencia. and had a great race second place a couple of weeks ago. That's okay. Did you feel calm, excited heading into that?

Sophie: that. My own fault. I felt, before I went and raced Lanzarote, I felt uncomfortable, just like not knowing what I was expecting from my performance, not knowing what I was expecting. I just didn't really know what to expect. it was, I just felt uncomfortable before Lanzarote. And then when I went to Valencia, was, wow, the whole dropping your bags off the night before, your bike off, and then it was also a split transition. So that didn't help me either. Cause it was like over here, over here, over here. So. I did find that stressful, but in a very different way to what I'd find stressful about a World Series. You could do much more things on your own time. Although I wasn't sure where I was going and all these things, and for a number of reasons, I to have a very late drop into Valencia. So I didn't see any of the course. Lots of those things, which I would never imagine do it. It just wouldn't happen for a World Series because you'd miss a briefing, you wouldn't get put to the back of the pontoon, all these things. So for different reasons, I felt uncomfortable or nervous, but I enjoyed them both in different ways, if that makes sense. ⁓ So yeah, but I would like to be, now that I've done one, I feel like that would be a lot, I know what to expect. And I was on the phone to Jodie Stimpson before being like, right, Jodie, how does this work? Talk me through what's gonna happen, because she's like, right, you're gonna get these bags, you're gonna get this, you're gonna get the other. So yeah, she was like. talking me through it I just didn't know.

Jackiehering: Yeah. I think in longer course or middle distance, you know, seems from my perspective, it seems like in short course, the athletes are all kind of like together and you're all kind of cared for. And there's a lot more like doing things together. And in long course, it's kind of like you're on a one man journey a lot of times. Like you got to find where you're going. You got to show up places. Nobody's keeping track of you. You're just like.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got, I like, I've come from a federation where it's all done for you. Like they make things as easy as they can for you, which is brilliant. But you, you know, I turn up to the airport and sometimes they're like, where are you staying? Where's your hotel? And I'm like, I have absolutely no idea. Like I literally, I get, I get to the airport, I get on the plane, a transfer comes and picks us up, takes us to the hotel. Like, you know, and then we have a group chat and it's like,

Jackiehering: No. ⁓ my god.

Sophie: meeting for briefing at four o'clock, I could tell you every thing was all I need to do is meet in the lobby at four o'clock and we all walk together. So like, you know, I've spent the however long doing that. And it's been great. You don't have to think and then all of a sudden you're pushed into this new world of, you know, Iron Man or whatever. And you're like, yeah, you got to do it yourself. And you're like, ⁓ I don't know what's going on. So yeah, it was a steep learning curve. And yeah, we took Phoebe out as well, which as you can imagine, traveling with small humans is makes life more tricky.

Jackiehering: You're a travel agent, yeah.

Sophie: But yeah, was, like I say, it was different but in a good way and yeah, not put me off. So that's a good thing.

Jackiehering: Yeah, that's really good. And from the sound of all that, you might really enjoy T100, because they do, you did one. yeah, and I saw you got on the start list for the T100 Spain. That's awesome. You're going to do so good and they will take nice care of you. You don't got to stress at all. So that'll be cool. How has training been going? Well, getting ready for that.

Sophie: Yeah, they look after you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've definitely spent more time on my time trial bike, which has been the big thing. Amazing, isn't it, when you spend time on your time trial bike? I know. Yeah, you just got to do it. yeah, before London, I think I had my bike for like three weeks. I, and I've never sat on a TTV bike before. it was, yeah, by about 40K, I thought this is, I just want to get off this bike now. was awful.

Jackiehering: It truly, that's the secret. I'm sorry, like truth is out. You gotta just do it.

Sophie: Whereas, yeah, I've spent much more time on my time trial bike leading into Valencia and then, and then since. So yeah, I feel as prepared as I can do. I'm probably back training 90 % of what I would have done pre-Phebe. Just maybe not quite the same volumes, but just trying to be a bit clever with other bits to just minimize the volume out of the house basically is kind of where we're at. So yeah, it's been a good change.

Jackiehering: And she's, yeah, she's just about one. Is that right?

Sophie: She is one a week today actually, so yeah. I know.

Jackiehering: Perfect. Yes, you're gonna just keep feeling better and better, honestly. Like, I don't know what your sleep has been like, but I remember really crossing a barrier like around that. Well, I guess I got pregnant again not too long after, but there was like a couple months. Yeah. And then I was like, oh dang, now we gotta go do it again, but it's fine. Yeah.

Sophie: Well you felt amazing! We're going again. Yeah. Yeah, she's, she's just started nursery as well. So kind of those two days in the week that just free up a bit. And I think, I don't know if you were the same, but like for us, it's just the recovery. Like we can, because we're on different schedules, like funnily enough, Tom is not coming swimming with me at seven o'clock in the morning. Like he's definitely not one for swimming. So, you know, making our schedules fit in the day is fine. Like we can get all the training done and we're very fortunate that both, especially our mums like come and help us a lot with Phoebe and you know, now she's starting nursery, like it just frees up time to just do nothing. And I know that sounds so weird. Like everyone's like, ⁓ she's off to nursery. Like what are going to do? More training? You're like, not really. I'm just quite looking forward to just more recovery. And I think that's the thing that we've both struggled with the most probably is just lack of sleep. ⁓ And then just lack of time where you just sit and do nothing or nap in the day or whatever it might be. hopefully now she's got two days of entertainment at nursery. We'll have a bit more recovery time in the week. So we'll see.

Jackiehering: Yeah, she'll love it. You guys will love it. I was kind of the same way. I kept them home for as long as possible. But then you hit a point where you're like, okay, they'll actually enjoy being with other kids. And also for your own mental health, it's nice just to have some downtime where you can get stuff done. You could do laundry, you could do whatever, or you could sleep. Or you could, I mean, it's just nice to have the freedom to do what...

Sophie: Yeah Yeah. Yeah. Be that, yeah.

Jackiehering: what has to be done for your own self on those days. So that's going to help you tons. You're going to feel really good after that. in the middle distance versus the short, do you feel like what one suits your physiology or your personality? Do you feel like getting into the middle distance? Are you like, okay, this is it for me. This is going to be great.

Sophie: Yeah, so. Well, I'm probably on paper, probably better suited to the middle distance. Like, I was amazed coming back from, from, you know, pregnancy and that how quickly kind of like that first threshold stuff all just came back super quick. And even now, like across the board, swim, bike and run, like that kind of more typically like 70.3 race effort has come a lot more naturally. to me than the stuff I over it, like especially running like the faster running is, it's hard work. ⁓ Yeah. So, that's been, that's just been the hardest bit for me at the moment is that like 5k, 10k running stuff. So, yeah, on paper, think I'm probably better suited to the middle distance racing, but

Jackiehering: Yeah.

Sophie: Obviously I've it's this time on the time trial bike like yes, I've spent more time on it, but still not I wouldn't say I was a fully dialed in TT bike rider and Yeah, and then on the flip side I do enjoy the kind of like fast pace racing dynamics of the short course stuff I've only done one since coming back. So and I've not done a world series yet So I might give you a different answer after I've towed a line for one of those so yeah, but Like this year is just about doing both in a hybrid year and just figuring those things out. Cause all honesty, like I don't know what I'm going to enjoy most. I don't know what I'm going to be better at. don't know. I don't, I just don't know. And part of me thinks that's quite a scary place to be. Like I've always known like every year I've come into, I've always known what the A-race is for the year. I've always known, I've always known these things, like what the whole year looks like, what we're planning for, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas this year is. On one hand, it's quite nice just coming into it being like, I don't know and that's okay. And we're just going to work things out and the race calendar evolves every few weeks depending on what I get start for or what I've qualified for or what the other girls want to race and what I might get start for and all these things. So, yeah, I'm just embracing the, the not knowing. So that's very different for me.

Jackiehering: Yeah, that's probably a good practice. Like, ⁓ just let it be, yeah.

Sophie: Yeah, just it is what it is. And yeah, you know, most of it you can't control anyway. just yeah, as long you're comfortable with the not knowing it's actually not a bad not a bad place.

Jackiehering: Yeah. It's not terrible. But we didn't have much coverage of Valencia, your first 70.3. I do kind of want to hear your take. I want to talk through the race a little bit. had, you were up there with a few other short course ladies. So maybe that offered some familiarity for you, but.

Sophie: It was a bit of an ITU resurgence, I think.

Jackiehering: And for sure, look how I mean, you had Kathy Ashar first, you were second, and Lena Meisner third, which are all short course people. You want to tell me kind of just your run through, how did that play out?

Sophie: Yeah. The swim was fine until I couldn't see the last boy and then kind of was off course and then just so the swim was the swim but it was fine. I led the swim until I didn't see the last boy then got Alisha Beto another short course athlete got me on the run out so that was annoying but anyway it's not fine. Yeah I know so but no the swim yeah the swim was fine like swim is my

Jackiehering: But you were like leading the swim or something. No swim bonus for you, sorry. ⁓

Sophie: my strength really. it was, ⁓ it didn't feel that much longer than, ⁓ a, than Olympic, transitions though, very long, running through, like obviously you have all the age group bikes. Like I was, I could not believe how many age groupers were there. Like unbelievable how many, yeah, thousands. Like my mind was blown. Like I've never seen anything like it. ⁓ but it was amazing. Like I've never done the races where you're on the same course at the same time.

Jackiehering: Thousands? Yeah. Yeah.

Sophie: So yeah, that was really cool. And then kind of got onto the bike with Lena and I just thought I'll just stay behind and just, I don't want to kind of over bike and blow up, but equally I don't really know where to gauge this. So kind of sat with Lena and then we kind of got caught by Kathia and Marjolee, maybe like 40, 50 K. And then the four of us were just kind of together, but I definitely felt more comfortable on my bike. So that was a big bonus. I had bottles on the back of my saddle. That was the first for me. know, professional. I was, I had practice. Yeah. So I had bottles behind my saddle and all those things are just different. it was, yeah, I was just like, if I can just tick these things off, that'll be great. So tick all those things off. And yeah, and then the run.

Jackiehering: Yeah. ⁓ were you able to grab them? And okay, yes.

Sophie: I ended up having to have a C-section with Phoebe, which wasn't planned. It's created a of fascial pull through my tummy sometimes. That was coming in on the run a bit, which was a bit annoying, I think probably from being on the TT bike, the 90K.

Jackiehering: Like a, does it feel like a cramp or what does it feel like?

Sophie: yeah, but not like a stitch almost just like kind of across my whole tummy. ⁓ yeah, it's not ideal. ⁓ it's a work in progress, you know, scars take two years to fully heal, as I've been told. ⁓ so that was a bit annoying on the run, but, ⁓ just, just thinking about my nutrition and just kept and all those things in. So

Jackiehering: No. Mm-hmm.

Sophie: Yeah, the run felt very long, like hats off to Ironman and mine women because I could not imagine doing that again. Like, I could not imagine anything worse than doing that run again. So yeah.

Jackiehering: You were going fast. You went just under 119. It just felt like way too long for you.

Sophie: Yeah, yeah, it was far. It was far. I'll be honest, when I ran out and you see like the markers, it's like one. And then you see the next one, it's like two lap and it's like 13. And you're like, wow, I've a whole lap before I get to 13k. And then I've still got another 8k to go. Like, it did seem quite far for me. ⁓ But yeah, I think now that I've done it, I mean, it was about only my second ever half ⁓ marathon. Like I did one just before Christmas. and then obviously fresh off the bike and then that one. So I think having done it now, like, I feel a bit more mentally prepared, which is probably my limiting factor. ⁓ So yeah, that way was a presently surprise from the whole for the whole day. And then to qualify for Nice was, yeah, I was very, very, very happy with that. So I couldn't really ask much more on that day.

Jackiehering: Yeah, that's pretty awesome. You got your knee slot and that's a race that won't be too bad to travel for you. So that's pretty cool. And that course ⁓ is beautiful. It's lovely and it will be a real challenge. And man, I might not go because there's too many fast people, but and it's so far coming from the US, the distance and we don't have mountains. it's ⁓

Sophie: No. Mm-hmm. Hahaha It is far for you guys. Yeah.

Jackiehering: You know, when I did the Ironman there, was just with kids. Like I can't bring my get my kids out of school that long. I'm not good at descending because I don't have any mountains to practice on. So it's kind of like starting on the back foot for some of us a little bit, but it is beautiful and it is a great, pretty easy place to to travel and and vacation at, honestly.

Sophie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, easy for us. France, yep, I'll take that. No time, well, it might be an hour time difference, but yeah, great. I am very, I'm excited for it. So yeah, looking forward to the end of the year.

Jackiehering: ⁓ Yeah, that's well, maybe that's like kind of one of your North stars that you can aim at for this season. Yeah. Do you? Yeah, are you excited? How's your husband doing? I guess with your transition to middle distance, he's an ultra runner. So I've just seen a little bit. I don't follow ultra running as close as triathlon, but I'm sure he's obviously extremely supportive because he understands what it's all about. Like, how have you found?

Sophie: Yeah, for the F. Yeah.

Jackiehering: navigating, I guess, parenthood where you're both trying to train with Phoebe and is he ⁓ like a super dad or what's his status?

Sophie: Yeah, no, he is very hands on. I've said we're very lucky that we're around so much with Phoebe. ⁓ You know, the fact that, you know, two weeks after I had her that you didn't have to go back to a normal job and leave me all day and, you know, very, very lucky that we're in the situation that we're in. And yeah, he went on when she was what three months old to win UTMB out in France. And yeah, it was It was crazy really. So yeah, he has definitely jumped two feet into being an amazing dad. And you know, we are both very lucky to have him and he's got a hard rock hundred miles coming up this year. So he'll be heading over heading over to you guys over in America next month. And that will be that'll be a challenge for us because he's kind of away for nearly a month. It'll be a challenge for him being away from Phoebe for that long. me not so much. can just chat to him on FaceTime, but she's not great. She's not great on a phone. and the logistics of that when he goes away and parents coming up to help and all these things, like there's a lot of moving parts, moving parts for that. But yeah, like we both understand that that's going to have to happen. And yeah, those big races and you know, they are important and Yeah, like I say, we're just very lucky that in between those, we have an amazing family dynamic and family life that I feel very grateful to have. yeah, moving parts when he goes away, but when he's here, he's full on dad mode. So yeah, very, very lucky.

Jackiehering: I really think, I mean, that's awesome. I have that too. I have an awesome husband who, mean, obviously any woman who has kids who's able to continue racing, it is kind of unspoken that they have a high functioning husband and dad because it would not be possible if the guy's lazy and sitting there and not chipping in to do all sorts of different things. And as they grow, like there's,

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackiehering: different things that that'll come up that you know you both have to do right now. Personally I've got an eight and a 10 year old so we're on like the divide and conquer drive them to different sports pick them up take them all sorts of different thing type of mode which is its own challenge and actually I almost preferred the little kid mode because then you just like chuck them in the car seat and you take them anywhere you want to go they're just with you and now.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. with you they did what you wanted yeah yeah

Jackiehering: It's like they have so many time commitment things and want to go to friend's house. so, yes, you have to be on the same page. And that's good. That's going to suit you guys really well. And also nice that you have family like coming to chip in. That's really good.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the saying it takes a village, it sounds so cliche, but for us, like, it really does. Like you, you know, I'd say that we were very well supported before and, you know, family would come and watch you race and things like that. But yeah, now with Phoebe and yeah, just that's kind of stepped up another level. And like you say, without, without that and without Tom, like I wouldn't be back racing and, and things like that. So yeah, it takes a lot to move. move everyone around to where you need them to be.

Jackiehering: Yeah. Do you feel like all that has kind of changed or shifted your relationship with training or with races or results even?

Sophie: It's definitely shifted in two different ways for me and in training. Training now I feel like it just has more like intent to it. Like I wouldn't say that stuff I was doing before was, you know, I was lazy and I couldn't be bothered to do it or like I'd go and half ass it and or whatever. But like now everything is very much like, I feel like we've maximized what we can get out of what we have because You don't just have endless amounts of time now. Well, I definitely don't have any of this amount of time. ⁓ you know, so it sings, especially around the bike, just kind of, I don't really do like easy riding anymore. Like it's either a session or it's like strong aerobic for me, which I never really did before. so I'd definitely say training is more intent to it and maybe a bit more specific, maybe not specific in terms of like the specificity, but everything is there for a purpose. And then the racing side, like. It's almost just like this level of like gratitude I have now, like, whereas before it was almost like a need to perform, like I needed to do well and it probably wasn't, well, it wasn't, it wasn't a very healthy outlook on racing. Whereas now it's almost just, I feel grateful that my body's allowed me to come back and race. Like it's grown a human, like it's grown, it's grown something that I love more than anything in the world. Like this. small humor, like I've grown that person and I've now, yeah, I've also fed her for nearly a year and now I'm able to train and race and hopefully get back to a really high level with that. So it's like gratitude for almost for myself, which is an odd thing for me to say. And then also like gratitude for the people that have helped, like whether that's family and friends or, you know, coaching and support staff that have had and you know, all those people that have kind of like willing you on and helping you on. So. racing now just seems like this amazing bonus that like I've got back to be able to do that and how cool that I've managed to qualify for world champs and you know, I given a start for T100 and I've got my name on a world series start list and all these things like it definitely comes from a place of being thankful rather than like a need and like I have to do it. So it's been a nice welcome change and yeah, yeah.

Jackiehering: Yeah, I completely understand that. And I've heard that same thing from a lot of women. I'm interviewing, I don't know if you know Holly Lawrence, ⁓ but I know her and ⁓ she kind of says a really similar thing. And I felt, I still feel the same thing. I've been racing a lot of years since my kids are alive. And it's a type of thing where you have so, like you have...

Sophie: Yeah.

Jackiehering: the kid and you have your life and you're very happy with that, that if racing went away or it didn't work, you would be okay. Whereas it'd be fine. Whereas before I feel like I didn't have the six, it was all or nothing. It was like, this is what I've got. I gotta make this work. It was like a little bit stressful. And you know, once you have kids, you're like, I am okay no matter what. And it really does like release this weight that you're just able to.

Sophie: Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah. It was all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah.

Jackiehering: I think that's why performance can be really good after kids actually is because the weight is lifted. There is not really such a huge pressure. You've got someone that's going to like snuggle you and when they're little, they don't even know. My kids used to think they used to think I won every single race I did back when they were little, which was awesome. Now they're now they're really hard on me. But yeah, yeah, they kind of are.

Sophie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, she doesn't know what's going on. Yeah, little savages now. But yeah, that's, yeah, I think, like you say, whether you win or lose, whether you've had a great training day or not, you come back in and like she knows no different. Like, she's hopefully in one day, you when she's a bit older, just gonna think, wow, how cool my mum can do this. Like, that's amazing. And yeah, I feel very lucky to have joined. group of women, not just in triathlon, but you know, in all sports that have kind of paved a way for me and I hope that I continue to show other women and whether that's in triathlon or not or whatever it might be that with a bit of help and support like we can do a lot of things and you know, have a family and go on to do cool stuff as well. yeah, I feel very privileged to be part of the mum group.

Jackiehering: Yeah, it's a pretty sweet group. That's one of my main things for starting this pod. And I want to try to bring tons of moms on because, you know, you're still young. You're only what, 30 or something? 31 maybe? ⁓ a baby. Plenty of time to race. Have as many kids as you want. You got a million years ahead of you. But, you know, it's important to bring on these different stories of motherhood and it's going to look different for

Sophie: Yeah, 31. Yeah.

Jackiehering: for a lot of different women, you have a completely looking different path than I did. We had a kid around the same age, but who knows what your trajectory is gonna be. And I think it's just good for women, whether they're really fast before kids or they just want to continue after kids and see a path for that, just to see like it is possible. It's actually like...

Sophie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Jackiehering: very possible and it doesn't have to even be stressful. You can just, if it's just what you like to do. ⁓

Sophie: Nah. And I think as well, like you see the performances, Holly at Kona's like a prime example, like that was unbelievable. Like whether she'd had a baby or not, like that performance for your, what her second Ironman first Kona experience, regardless of being a mom, that was an amazing performance. Then you layer in the fact like she has got Poppy and then you're just like, wow, that's, that is like a whole new level. And you know, I think that is just. inspiring to so many whether your ambition is to go to Kona or not or it's you know to run a 5k at parkrun or whatever it might be like it just goes to show that it is it can be done and like I think it's really cool and yeah I was there's been loads performances like that you just think wow like that has just shown what is possible so yeah hopefully Hopefully we sat here in five, 10 years time and more women will be, you know, inspired by our performances and things like that.

Jackiehering: Yeah, I think it's a young sport, triathlon is, even though it's been going on what seems like a long time, it's still pretty young. And I think there's been a lot of progress with more women doing it, more women having families, but also I think just overall support of athletes from brands. And I'm interested if you'd be open to it. You know, you, I don't know what contracts and sponsors are like in short course, but if they... like hung with you through pregnancy or if you just kind of went and got new ones that do support you or like what was your experience with that side of it?

Sophie: I had many through short course. I found it very tough sponsor wise short course vibes. Very fortunate to have Essex and stuck through me, paid me exactly the same through being pregnant. Yeah, so that was amazing. I was with Specialized and my contract coincided ending the year that I fell pregnant. So it didn't get renewed. in the same capacity, kind of got product and bike and for this year, which is amazing because the bike market is a tough one. ⁓ So yeah, although it wasn't the same that I was on previously, like I still feel my contract was coming to an end anyway. And so anyway, so like from that point of view, like I was still very grateful to still be given product and a new bike for the year because yeah, like it was tough. And then

Jackiehering: It is.

Sophie: win and precision hydration. Yeah, kind of stepped on board. Yeah, before I'd even raced this year. that was amazing. And yeah, again, I was open to both of them saying like, I know you guys are primarily in the non drafting scene, but I'm going to still do a bit of both. And they're like, yeah, fully, fully support. And obviously, the more non-draft in the better for us, but like we fully support where you're at and, the decisions that you want to make. So it's definitely been eye opening, the opportunities in, in non-drafting and yeah, feel very grateful that some people, that those brands have stepped up to help me. Yeah. Before I'd even towed the line of a 70.3. So yeah.

Jackiehering: Well, it's very easy to see that you could have success, I think, in middle distance. ⁓ If I had a brand, I would sign you up too. There does seem to be a lot more sponsor opportunities specifically in middle and long distance. Like even when, you know, my early years when I wasn't very good, like you could still get some sponsors, especially product, of course, for people starting out, but...

Sophie: Hahaha Yeah.

Jackiehering: Do you now in your contracts have some type of maternity thing? Is that something that you look at or not really? You might need to make a sibling.

Sophie: I didn't really look at it, but yeah, I didn't look at it before. I think a lot of it was, well, I just didn't really think to be honest. Like I didn't, we always knew that we wanted to have a family and we just didn't know exactly when and whether I had gone to Olympics would we have kind of finished the Olympics and thought, ⁓ now's the time or I'm not sure. it probably wasn't that I looked at, whereas. Well, I can't say I'm have a baby in the next few years at the moment because my brain would be fried. ⁓ But I fancy another baby now. ⁓ But I think brands are much more on board aren't they like, ⁓ you know, World Triathlon have a maternity policy, British Triathlon had one for race starts, ⁓ T100 have got a maternity policy. So I think everyone's buying into it more and ⁓

Jackiehering: it seems that way, but there will come a random day where you're like, okay, I think it's fine. Yeah.

Sophie: just protecting female athletes, so it's good thing.

Jackiehering: I think it's a really good thing. mean, I can't imagine short course where you actually like, like your ranking determines where you line up and if you even get a start. And then if you go have a baby, like how...

Sophie: Well, I say World Triathlon protected it. They half protected it. So my points got frozen. wherever I was 40th or something, they got frozen at 40th, which is great. And they have, ⁓ I think it's something like two years, they're frozen for two years. So they either stay frozen. I know two years, if you haven't surpassed that it unfreezes. But if you race really well and in six months.

Jackiehering: Do they?

Sophie: you surpass that ranking, they unfreeze and you crack on with your new ranking. So that was great. Got on the start list for Lanzarote. The start list came out and I was like number 55 on the start list. And I was like, how am I number 55 when my world ranking being frozen at like 40th? Like was so confused. I was like, I should be like top 10, like nine or something to go and line up. So I emailed in to our triathlon, I was like, really confused. Like my points have been frozen. This is where I am, but like the start list has come out and I think a mistake's been made because I'm literally at the back. And the reply was, ⁓ your points are frozen to get on the start line, once to, but to make the start list, your actual ranking. So my ranking of 350th in the world was used. And I was like, on one hand, it like, it was a beach start. didn't.

Jackiehering: Yeah. Ha No.

Sophie: it wasn't really going to make any difference. Like, okay, but I was like, principally, that is actually really pede me off because I'm like, you clearly understand that you need to protect rankings. So you've, you have protected them. But when it comes to actually using it for the other part that the rankings used for you thought, nah, just go to the back of the pontoon. So I was just, I was just like, oh, well, we can bring it up in the next meeting and this that and the other. I was like, well, yes, could you bring up in the next meeting because you understand that it needs to be protected and that you need to that's the right thing to do, but you've only half protected it like, it literally made no sense. So yeah, that was

Jackiehering: That truly does not make any sense. Hopefully they fix that, cause...

Sophie: I like don't bother if you're not going to use it for everything that your rankings use for don't bother protecting it at all. Just be like, it's your decision to have a baby. You're to go back to 350th in the world. That's that. Like don't make out that you're trying to help me because you're not. So yeah, I was, I was disappointed.

Jackiehering: Yeah. ⁓ that's kind of crazy. So then do you have to start like in the middle of the scrum and like.

Sophie: I was literally like, yeah, I was like 55 out of 58. Yeah, yeah, it was not ideal, I'll be honest.

Jackiehering: That's like my actual worst nightmare. Just watching those races gives me a bit of anxiety. That's so scary. Then do you get beat up or are you fast enough that you're like Zoom?

Sophie: Um, my wet suit got pulled up. was an honesty. The swimming Lanzarote was possibly one of the worst. Yeah. My wet suit got pulled undone first time in my whole entire career that has ever happened. Uh, and it was just, yeah, it was not ideal. And then I was just like in with everyone. I was like, get me out. And I was like, swam really rewind. I was like, I'm not, I'm not doing this today. was in my first race back in any two years. I'm just not doing this. So I swam around the outside of my wet suit undone. was like, right, let's just get to the beach, got to the beach, looked up and I saw Taylor Brown. I was like,

Jackiehering: ⁓ No.

Sophie: thank goodness we have each other. ⁓ thankfully she had a rough swim as well, so we had each other to get back on the front. But yeah, was just one of those things, you're just like, can we...

Jackiehering: ⁓ that's crazy. But then that's gonna happen again, right? Cause now you're ranking. So that's gonna keep like any short course you do, you're gonna have that similar. That's insane. Maybe they can fix it part way through like right now, just say it's fixed. Not at all. I do remember some saga relating to this with Gwen Jorgensen too, where she tried to get back on and she couldn't get on any start lists. I don't know.

Sophie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. A terrible ranking. Yeah, I know. Doesn't make sense, does it? I know. Yeah. And it's hard as well, because obviously for like when and for me being from a nation with lots of athletes, you're capped at five for a World Series. So yeah, you're then relying on potentially being subbed into a race or not a full start list and things like that. So you're like, oh, it's, yeah, I've shot myself in the foot a bit here.

Jackiehering: That's what they talk. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Well, hopefully they fix that. If not for you, then for like the future people. Truly like, my goodness, that's crazy. All right, let's do a few little questions and then we'll kind of wrap it up. We don't need to make this too long. You probably have ⁓ a million things else you could be doing. ⁓ But I think people kind of who have kids have...

Sophie: Everyone else, yeah I know. So yeah. No

Jackiehering: a memory or an image of what it's like having a one year old, we understand that everything that probably used to be super dialed and perfect is no longer like that anymore. ⁓ So I just kind of want to hear like, what's your current like, biggest challenge or thing that people don't really see about your life right now that that you feel like that you want to share that's part of your story part of like what you're navigating to try and get your training done and try and be the best you can.

Sophie: Oh, I think, I mean, you're probably aware, like people talk about mum guilt and, you know, that feeling of, of being guilty and you kind of before having Phoebe I was like, yeah, I can see how people would feel, you know, like leaving a child to go out training and all those things. But yeah, I definitely feel that and I've left her for one night. So in a year I've left her for one night so far. And yeah, I know.

Jackiehering: You might have a bad case of this from the sounds of it.

Sophie: So I've only left her for one night and when I race, I'm racing T 100 and she's coming with me. And then the week after is World Series and Alcahero. And I've said that I'm going to leave her at home. So that'll be like four nights where I leave her. And I know she's going to be absolutely fine. Like she probably won't even notice that I'm not there, but it's just, I don't know. It's just that feeling of you can't help. You can't do anything. Like you're off to go and race and selfishly, it's just for you. And you're leaving her. So that's, I definitely have struggled with that. And when she was much smaller, and I was exclusively breastfeeding her, like, going out and leaving her, I'd be like, I've got two and a half hours and like, and I remember on one ride, I've misjudged it. And I was a bit further away. And I had this like, feeling of panic of, oh, my goodness, I'm not gonna make it back. And she wasn't. Yeah, I was like, I need to get back.

Jackiehering: Not just panic, but your boobs are probably like in pain. Like I'm actually panicking.

Sophie: Yeah. And I had and it and nothing was gonna happen to her like she wasn't gonna she wasn't gonna starve like, and I like that was a lot for me like thinking of somebody else that really depends to start really dependent on you. So have that. I've said it before, like the recovery thing and managing that is tough. Phoebe's done one week of induction. So she did like three

Jackiehering: Yeah.

Sophie: couple of hours slots and we got hit with hand foot and mouth from week one. I was like, you can't even write this. Like she came back, she's like runny nose. was like, ⁓ bit of a cold from nursery. ⁓ great. It's starting. No, not just a cold hand, foot and mouth. So then like you're trying to look after a human that's got horrible viral infection and you're trying not to get ill and you're trying and like she's not sleeping very well and

Jackiehering: No.

Sophie: And like that is just tough. ⁓ And you know, we've spoke to a lot of people that have had kids and put them through nursery and like, is this worth it? Because we're like, is the illness thing? ⁓ That's gonna be tough for us, I think to manage like such a thing. ⁓ But yeah, it's all those things that any aspect and I mean, you like to say, well, this is is 10, like, different challenges are just going to come and go. And at the moment for us, that's the challenge and I imagine for you now it's the, they're at school, it's hard to take them out and you know, they have their things, whereas Phoebe's so small, you just off we go, we're going, you don't have any choice. So yeah, just different things and like thinking about a lot of stuff, I suppose, like my brain feels like it's always on thinking of, has she got this? What's she gonna do for that? What about that? ⁓ So yeah.

Jackiehering: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's like the mom current running brain. That's a thing. Yeah, the biggest issue in those first couple of years truly is the health and sleep situation. Like the amount of boogers that a child produces within the first two years of their life is just nasty. It's sick. It's like if you can stay healthy somehow, that's really...

Sophie: Hahaha. Yeah. Quite remarkable! Yeah. And it's like, it's hard, isn't it? It's like your sleep's compromised. So like, you're more, you're more susceptible because your recovery is not as great. And then you're bringing in a germ filled human that just wants to hug you and be near you. And you're just like, oh, this is not ideal. So we're just, yeah, if we can get through the next few months without being struck with every illness, that would be fantastic. Yeah.

Jackiehering: Yeah. it's so tricky. That would be a win. Yeah, yeah, I think, and back on the mom guilt topic, like I suffered from that a little bit. Actually, I had, my first guilt was my dog mom, because I was initially a dog mom. And that first year, I felt like such terrible dog mom guilt, because I was like a really good dog mom. We did dog park, we did everything. And then I'm like doing the baby, and he would just like sit there with his head. I'm like.

Sophie: Same. Yeah. sit there. I'm really sorry I've neglected you. Yeah.

Jackiehering: Yeah. So I suffered dog mom guilt real bad. And then then I would have like regular mom guilt when I was out exercising. it really it really is like if you're efficient and you're doing the best you can, like your kid is fine. And it's what the thing that I think fixed me was thinking about. It's important for the kid to build relationships with other people, to have that alone time with dad, alone time with grandma.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah.

Jackiehering: is really important and that will like bond them so tightly that when they get older, you know, right now it's no big deal. Nobody really cares when I leave. Cause they're perfectly happy being home with dad or having a weekend with grandma and grandpa. Like they're like, peace out mom, go have fun. And it's such a nice feeling cause now I don't have the guilt anymore. Like if it's more than three days, I'll miss them a little bit. You know, I'll be like ready to go home for sure.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. See ya! Yeah.

Jackiehering: It's nice. So, you know, just keep in mind, like it's it's healthy. It's good for her to to build those relationships. So the very last thing that I'm asking at the end of the podcast is a little segment called What Are You Loving Right Now? And it can be triathlon related. It can be anything you want to talk about that you're loving right now.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah, so that's... two things I'm loving right now. The first thing is we have bought for Phoebe a seat that goes on the bike so we can put her in and we go riding with her on the front. Our first ride as a family was last week and we rode 40 minutes to a cafe and we were met by Olivia Mathias and she brought her dog and then Alex Yee turned up on his bike.

Jackiehering: Okay. Like the one on the front? ⁓ I love that.

Sophie: Yeah, we cycled there and we sat and had a coffee and we just pootled back and she had a little helmet on and she loved it. And I just, I thought how cool, like we've just ridden with you to a cafe and we've sat there with our friends and the dog, we've had a coffee and a cake and we've just ridden home. And I just thought, this is, this is pretty cool. So that's probably the one thing that I'm loving right now.

Jackiehering: Wow.

Sophie: And the second thing is when I take her swimming on a Monday. So we have half an hour of, it's called Water Babies over here. And we go in and we sing silly songs that I thought that people would think, wow, you're singing nursery rhymes and jumping around a pool. And we love it. And she splashes in and goes underwater. And yeah, we just turn up with the other kids and off she goes. So they're the two things that. a hybrid from my mum life and my triathlon life that we go swimming and we go bike riding, but in a very, very different manner.

Jackiehering: Yeah. it's so good. mean, I got such joy swimming with my kids when they were little and I still do. Still, it's my favorite thing just to go to the pool and play around with them or the beach or wherever it helps in travels that they love to swim. So how fun. I miss those baby classes. Just singing Wheels on the Bus and and all that. Like, ⁓ that's great. Yeah, so good.

Sophie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah! So yeah, they're my two things.

Jackiehering: Well, Sophie, we're gonna wrap it up here. Thank you so much for chatting with me and I hope I can meet you in person at some point. That would be really nice. And to everybody listening, thank you for being here. This will wrap up episode three. You guys are still the real fans, the real listeners, and I'm glad you're here. And if you like this, please make sure you hit that subscribe and leave a comment if you like. I will keep making these. really pumped. got a couple more great guests already scheduled. So thank you for being here and talk to you soon.