Jackie Hering: All right, hey everyone, and welcome back to the Women's Race Podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Herring. We are here, episode 17, I think. I realize it's really hard for me to keep track because I don't label them, but I'm pretty sure we're on 17. And I have called back to Holly Lawrence to get her back on the show because Holly, I haven't told you this, you probably already know. You're one of the most popular episodes. The people love you. So you're here. Holly: I'm just here to catch up with you. ⁓ but I think that's probably what people like, that they know what that we're obviously friends. It's like a very natural conversation and yeah, you get the real real us for good or bad. Jackie Hering: Get the real deal. Well, I think people like to up until recently when you and Sean kinda launched the Passion Project YouTube and stuff, you have been fairly private, I'd say. Don't you think? Holly: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think I get a bad not reputation, but people on first like encounter with me think like I've had people say before, like, ⁓ they think I'm stuck up, they think this, they think that, just because like I I'm pretty shy until you get to know me. So like in a social setting, if I don't know you, I'll be like pretty shy at first and then, you know, like you, once you know me, you can't shut me up. ⁓ so maybe we're the same You know, me and Sean the same that way. And then like Passion Project is just a opportunity to just like, yeah, be a bit more transparent. But yeah, it's always been my my want to be as open as possible. And yeah, the people that know me know that's what I am. I'm an opener book. But yeah, it's hard to convey that on, you know, Instagram where you have just like perfect images and you don't post the the, you know, anything else but that. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess what I'm saying is I think it's been nice to have the passion project stuff. I think it's fun to see, you know, obviously Sean takes really nice photos and videos and and puts those videos together really nicely. So it's been fun, I guess, for me and for probably everyone else just to be able to follow along a little bit more. Holly: Yeah, I mean, I think that's just the nice thing of everyone now doing YouTube and like it's just it's just a better way to have like to really get to know someone, ⁓ just having longer form kind of content that's just kind of like a fly on the wall. But we've not been as good a about it as we've wanted to be. Like just since Poppy, it's harder and harder to wrangle her. I don't know if you saw like the last like outtake of and I was like Jackie Hering: The end. Holly: ⁓ n we'll just stick her in the chair, put her colouring book in front of her, she'll be fine. And every time we spoke, she just started shouting. So we just yeah, we're like, Okay, we'll do it when she's napping. Yeah, it's Jackie Hering: Yeah, that's pretty funny. That well, in case people haven't watched your YouTube, Holly just put out a YouTube update with her status, which is not the best news in the world. so maybe we could talk about kind of I don't know, just kind of we we chatted early in the year. So it was even before Spain, I think probably. It was pretty early. So let's just kind of walk us through how the ups and downs of your year and Holly: Yeah, probably. Yeah. Jackie Hering: I your current status and then we can talk about how awesome we're biking right now. Holly: Yeah, I mean, ⁓ it's been a bit of time now for me. I mean, I think I announced it last week that I had ⁓ shin ⁓ stress reaction, not a fracture, but it still means six weeks of no running, which means that I can't do an Iron Man to qualify for Kona, so I'm not going to Kona, which has been a big blow for this year. ⁓ Yeah, I feel like it's been a long time since I've like of through no fault of like, you know, pregnancy, obviously not on a world championship start line, but then like not being on a world champ start line this year when I'm should be, like is kind of a big blow. And ⁓ yeah, I've had a bit of time now to process that and everything and just kind of readjust what now the season does look like. And, you know, I've only raced one and a bit in races this year. So yeah, it's just been it's obviously not ideal, but In a weird way, I think this probably what I needed. I was starting to like really question whether I was enjoying racing anymore, whether it's kind of time to hang up the shoes, whatever you call it, like, yeah, kind of retire. ⁓ but this is kind of let a fire under my butt a little bit of being like, no, and especially not going out like this of like and I've still got a lot to crack in the Iron Man and I don't wanna I don't wanna leave with unfinished business and I feel still feel like There's a lot I can do over the distance and it's just not fun lining up to a race when you're nagging with an injury or kind of like hiding it to yourself or things aren't going well. And I think I kind of escaped relatively unscathed last year from coming back from pregnancy and having like a decent year, but you know, it's kind of finally bitten me this year and now it's kind of really made me yeah, take a step back and then readjust for next year. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. I know me and Paula kind of discussed there should be like a slot donation program because there's quite a few people like Alice Alberts has a slot. She's not racing. I'm sure she would love to donate it, but it's tough. Holly: Well Yeah, I mean one that's but ⁓ yeah, I mean I know obviously like Iron Man give wild cards. At one point was I I was like, should I ask for a wild card? Even though, you know, for sure they wouldn't give it to me, but I'm always of the mindset that if you don't ask you don't get, so you should always ask. but it's still what what is Kona now? Twelve weeks away? Jackie Hering: Feels pretty soon. Yeah. Eleven maybe. Yeah. Holly: Like it's gonna roll up really soon and like I'm not even if I magically was granted a slot to Kona, like the run build isn't there to be confident in having a good race and I don't wanna be there just to make up the numbers. ⁓ so yeah, that's that's kind of the Jackie Hering: Yeah. Well, it seems like you've handled ⁓ handled it as well as you could. I mean, obviously it's it's tough when stuff doesn't go our way and we depend on our bodies for like everything that we do, essentially. And yeah, it's really really a hard thing, but it happens often and like you see people pulling off big start lines all the time. And I know for me that helps me Holly: I'm not. Jackie Hering: feel a little bit better like this year watching ⁓ let's like Laura Phillip when she pulled off the Roth line. Like she's a German. That's gotta be your favorite race. And just like, you know, you have to take care of your body. Holly: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, but in the grand scheme of things, like that's still a tactical decision. Like she's Kona's, you know, where she's makes or breaks her career. So like yeah, it's it's probably a blow, but it's more of a blow sitting out for a world championships. More for also like sponsorships and stuff. Like they obviously expect you to be there and yeah. But yeah, it is part and parcel of the job. Like You're gonna be riding the line and at some point you're gonna pick up injuries and I was a little bit like Thought I was a bit more indestructible than that. Like, you know, I was like, ⁓ yeah, that's you know, it makes sense that I had a sacral fracture coming after pregnancy, but to get kind of like a bone stress injury, I was like, How how did that happen? Like I can't get those kind of thing, which I mean it just proves that no, you can. And it's like, yeah, it's gonna Jackie Hering: Do you think do you think there was anything nutritionally or anything that like led to it? 'Cause it seems to me like you look very healthy. You're not like trying to be super thin. You eat normal, it seems. Holly: No. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like it kind of it really annoys me that like I know red S is very important. Like everyone it's it's a hot topic. Like everything, like if you had the like flow diagrams, like everything leads to Red S. Like everything. Like even on the internet now, like, you know, I think 'cause if you say anything out loud, your phone is listening, you know. So then you'll get served an Instagram post about it. And recently I Jackie Hering: It's a hot topic right now. Yeah yeah. Holly: I was like stoked because last month I got my ferritin checked and it's like been the best it's ever been. And my ferritin is normally like in the gutter. And I've obviously like spoken this out loud. So now my phone is giving me ferritin-related Instagram content. And like I saw a post, it's like ferritin now is a red S issue. It's like every single thing is like a red S issue. And even, you know, and I have had people reach out to me since this. Jackie Hering: No. Holly: ⁓ injury update and saying, is it a red S issue? And I'm kind of like defiantly like, no, you know what? I am still like three, maybe more kilograms pre-like above what I was sitting pre-pregnancy. And I've purposefully done that to be like, I'm in a healthy spot. I'm eating, you know, at least enough for the demands of my sport to not be like. at all in a negative, you know. And so like, yeah, it kind of it it annoys me when people kind of and it it's it shouldn't do because yes, okay, like a lot of people are struggling with red S or whatever, but like for it to be in the answer for every injury, it's not. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah. And every time anyone feels bad or has a crappy race also. But, you know, I think yours, like looking at the whole situation, it seems like it was just more of a, you know, you had your foot thing going on and you probably just ramped your running too quick, which is like classic Holly: And yeah, yeah. It's reference, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's definitely like a load a load management thing. And like obviously you've got twenty twenty hindsight. Like we have like I've been using Stride for like so many years. It's the like dual pod. So you've got a pod in each of your shoes. It's like a power meter for you running, but it gives you all these like metrics and like For a while it was saying I was in like cautionary territory, you know, when I was like in my IMM build, which like obviously is seeing kind some kind of deviation. I sprained my ankle at the end of the year last year. So it's like little deviations that like obviously when you go back and you're just like digging through how did this happen, then you're like, okay, this is a reason, but it's hard in the moment to be like, we should back off. In this time, because like we are seeing this deviation, but now I've kind of like had the wrist slap to be like, we're gonna take more like heeding of the warnings next time. ⁓ which is cool to have those tools, but also like when you're feeling good and you wanna just be like progressing, progressing, progressing, but at some point you've really got to listen to your body and and pull back. And really in hindsight, I would have not even tried to race hamburg. after Pamplona when my foot was pissed off after the raise. I was then having, you know, pains in my shin, which I wasn't even like saying out loud. I take the ostrich approach in life to some things and I just like don't say it out loud. It doesn't exist. Sean's like, you never spoke this to me and I'm like, I'm sure I did, but probably didn't. so yeah, like obviously Jackie Hering: Yeah. ⁓ no. Holly: Yeah, in hindsight you think, ⁓ well, I could have probably saved Saved like I could've got to an Iron Man, I could've gone to Kalmar or something if I'd stopped straight away after Pamphlona. But in the moment you're like, I just get through this next few weeks, I get through this, get through this, but then fast forward it's how many months down the line, so yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, that's so tough. It's hard to know when to push through and when to stop. Like I think that's kind of what happened. So I have I don't think I even told you, but I can run now. Holly: Yeah. ⁓ you can I d I wasn't sure if you were gonna say this out loud. Yeah, you're pretty good at that. Jackie Hering: ⁓ well I'm not I I accepted my problem immediately. ⁓ but then I did go into like a bit of I don't know, I was on the this the denial train for I guess a few days after that. But I think mine Holly: You were in your denial phase. Well I'm in my like, ⁓ this is meant to be and like you're like kind of you keep messaging me in a bit of a panic and I'm like, Don't like you're gonna be fine if you just take the time now. Jackie Hering: Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. You know, I so I took two and a half weeks fully off of running. ⁓ which was like a little weird at the start, but it it hurt so bad I couldn't even just pretend to run. It was just it just hurt. I'm like, well, this is seems completely pointless. Holly: Yeah. Yeah. But it's so funny that we try and run through that, don't you think? It's so funny that like Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, where in my mind, I didn't even cancel my boisey Airbnb. If I would have canceled it in time, I could have freaking gotten my money back, but I didn't cancel it because I was like, ⁓ still, it might magically be okay. ⁓ so I held hope for too long, but then finally when I like released it, thank goodness for Mark, he's like, just just Holly: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jackie Hering: Do what you can do and just forget about it. Just until it's better, there's no reason to to push the run. So once I did that, then I got like super into riding my bike and swimming a lot. So that's it just happens. Yeah, I rode two century rides last week. It's so much fun. You feel so good. Holly: Yeah, it's funny how that happens. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's that is the nice thing that like obviously in trathlon. Like if you're a runner, if you can't run, it sucks. Cause like that's literally the thing. Like you can't do the thing. Like you're now like aqua jogging, like you'd be sent to like, you know, aqua jog jail. Like it sucks. Like, no aqua jogging. Like, but in triathlon, like you're like, okay, now's the time to like Jackie Hering: Yeah. ⁓ it's Holly: Get strong on the bike, to work on swimming, where it's like it is hard when you're doing three sports to like focus on pushing each one up, like when just load is high and everything. So yeah. There are there are like positives to come through it. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I hope so. I think I think working on the bike and swim is probably a good thing for me, so Holly: 'Cause you're still planning to do Kalmar, right? Jackie Hering: I I ran four minutes straight. If you can run four minutes, you can run a marathon. I felt like Holly: Yeah. I don't know if they say that. No one says that. ⁓ Jackie Hering: I felt a really strong glimmer of hope today, so I'm just gonna keep it's in like two and a half weeks. Holly: Okay. What is Kalmar? Is it three or four weeks time? Two? ⁓ no. I'm sorry, but Kalmar's off the cards. Jackie Hering: I'm I was running s I think it's fine. I do. I truly do. Cause yeah, I don't run the same on there, so actually it doesn't feel right. I have to go outside and just be with my body. So yeah, that's what I'm up to. I will probably do Kalmar as long as nothing hurts. If something hurt like Holly: Okay. Yeah. Maybe. Do you have a lever? ⁓ hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like if you're like past it and you you're like confident that it's not just gonna like re come up, then like yeah, if you could have the assurance, I don't know if there's some PT or someone's willing to give you that assurance, but yeah, that would be. ⁓ really? ⁓ nice. Jackie Hering: Right now I'm having Top Yeah. He says go for it. Yeah. So we'll see what happens. I mean, I gotta I'm I would like to be able to run some miles at a time rather than just four minutes. So I'll just keep trying and see. That would be a good goal. Yeah. But I do want to do Kalmar. Holly: Yeah. Right. 'Cause current is still like the main the main. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really wanted to do Kalma. I like love Copenhagen, flying in there, like everything I like was really wanting to do it. So yeah, sucks not to go there, but But hopefully you will be, so Jackie Hering: I know. That would have been fun. Yeah. Well, we're going no matter what, because guess what? We got we got my mom and sister watching the kids and we're just gonna go. Holly: Hello. Yeah. Well yeah. Then you should. Jackie Hering: It sometimes you have to do stuff for fun that you wanna do and the race is either gonna go great or or not go. But I think it'll at least go okay. We'll see. Yeah. ⁓ hey, I wanted to talk through your thoughts on some of the recent racing. What do you think about like placid? Holly: Yeah, I mean Paula yeah, ran away with it and we're like obviously being friends with her, so stoked for her. She's yeah, I think like a lot of us had ⁓ not like like confidence kind of hiccups and things, but it feels like like even I saw one of her inter interviews before the race and she was like just seemed super confident, super even being super new to the distance and everything and I thought it's either gonna go badly and she's gonna be confident until, you know, it goes badly, or she's gonna have a great day and she had a great day and it seemed like Yeah, it super suits her. Right now, I think, yeah, like Yeah, so impressed with that. ⁓ Yeah, I mean that's kind of the biggest biggest thing for me in Lake Placid. And obviously Martin just running away with it. That was pretty crazy to watch. Jackie Hering: Yeah. That was pretty cool. I mean, I am not jealous because I would not want to do an Iron Man all by myself all day. That's like my worst nightmare. Holly: Yeah, I mean Yeah. And no. Like if you're off the front, then I'd be having a whale of the time. Like it's way more like I obviously used to race races off the front and it's the best feeling ever. Because you're like it's like you're the only one that matters. Whereas like when you're losing time, like that's the sucky position to be on your own all day. So ⁓ yeah. Jackie Hering: Well, sure. Yeah. Holly: I like when people say that, ⁓ it's hard to be on your own all day. I'm like, Yeah, not not if you're like winning. And you're all the time checks you're getting is like you're putting time into people, you're putting time into people. That's like better than anything. You're not responding to anyone. You are the person that's dictating. So it's yeah, I think it's a great position to be in. Jackie Hering: Not if you're winning. Well, there's like you and five other people that will ever experience that. Holly: I would love to experience that again. I would love to experience that again. Jackie Hering: You gotta come to these lower level 70.3s. You can do it like every race, Holly. It's super fun. yeah, what do you think? You've raced a lot, like fairly closely with Marta Sanchez, right? Like, is she she's pretty strong overall? Like, I'm always impressed, especially when I see her running. I'm like, she looks so slow. I'm sorry, but she did not look fast. But she just chugs along and gets like three hours. Holly: Yeah. What? Jackie Hering: Plus or minus couple minutes every time. Holly: Yeah. But didn't she do a two fifty five this year? Jackie Hering: She might have. It was like her it was her fastest run ever. I was impressed. Holly: Hannah Plassive, which is like not an easy run horse at all. It's cr I I'm so surprised that people run first there. But ⁓ but yeah, I think it's just yeah, being strong. But she's she's a f she's like an interesting person racing because it seems like she's just like super aggressive. Like not inner person at all. She's just like Jackie Hering: Yeah. She's yelling at you in Spanish. Holly: I am non aggressive as a person. She's lovely. I really, really like her. She's always got a smile on her face. She would be like, you know, so kind in a race or whatever. But like is in her racing style, like she's like kind of surgy. Like if you've raced with her in a T one hundred, surely you have. No. Jackie Hering: Nowhere near her ⁓ she's in a different zip code coming out of the swim. Holly: I remember San Francisco with her and she was like in front of me, behind me, in front of me, behind me. And I was like, Wow, this is like I'm very like kind of steady eddy a little bit, like this is my pace. But she's like very surgy and I remember remembering Kona, she was like in front of me for a while and then behind me and then I think she repassed me again. Like she's and you're just like, Wow, she just never runs out of energy. Like Jackie Hering: Yeah. Holly: Like to race like that, which is obviously just her style. And I think she she races the people around her more than just like sticking to her like numbers her day, her which is like what we're always like told in Iron Man that, you know, you should do. But she races like that in, you know, T one hundred Iron Man, whatever it is. And so she obviously lost time to Paula as Paula was catching and then rode with Paula for the whole rest the bike. Yeah. Jackie Hering: The rest of the way. Holly: So it's like if Paula was there from the beginning, she probably would have just biked with Paula the whole way. So it's like, I think Marta's just gonna race whoever she's around. And she'll like she's a super strong cyclist. ⁓ and so that was probably good for Paula to like come off running with Marta. And it's funny because like Marta's a really good runner. Like she runs like the same as she does, like for a full Iron Man than she does a seventy point three. Jackie Hering: Mm. Yeah. Holly: But because of her like, you know, T one hundred seventy point three distance, I think even like Paula was like, ⁓ I can beat Marta, like on the run. And like I had that same thought in Comey when she like I I can't remember how it works dynamic wise, but I remember like she repassed me. And at no point did I ever think, ⁓ she's gonna beat me. I'm like, I can beat Marta. You know, it's like, and even though I had no idea, it's like we just have these like Jackie Hering: Yeah. Holly: you know, expectations of people or so that yeah, that was probably really great for Paula. But she had a great day, I think. I think Marta said she had a great day afterwards. And who was third? I can't even remember. Jackie Hering: Yeah. I should definitely have this in my mind. I now I feel terrible. ⁓ It was a Tamara didn't run up that far, did she? Usually I have my i now you're now I always have my iPad out with all the information Holly: You can't ⁓ This is what you're cut. See, I was really only watching the race with Paula. I was really only it was just like where's Paula? Where's to everyone else? Jackie Hering: I know, we were we were really stuck on that. Well, I'll pull it up here. We'll find it. We'll find it. Not quickly though, so you gotta talk about something else. Holly: Yeah. What did Okay, yeah. I was I was impressed ⁓ that Chelsea did walk to the finish line. I mean, people were like, Well, she has to. And I'm like, Well, there's one thing you have to walk to the finish line or you don't get your slot Kona. But then I was like, Who's just gonna walk and be out there for four hours? But she walked and she's Yeah, yeah, you do have to give it to her. But Jackie Hering: That's how bad she wanted to go to Kona, you gotta give it to her. Holly: I wonder if she Yeah, I wonder what happened. Like, was she hurt or was it just like, you know, you race above your capabilities and then it's Jackie Hering: Well It bites you hard. I think ⁓ I think that might have been what happened. She was cause she swam pretty hard and it looked like she probably biked pretty hard because she didn't lose too much time. And then it looked like she ran pretty hard. Like she was like going at her maximum. Holly: Until yeah, I think it's like and that was the finish of the race. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Hering: It's like go till the wheels fall off. Except then you have to keep going. Like the most painful way to do it. But I guess if you don't have pressure to like finish in a certain place or a certain time. Holly: Yeah. Well, I guess like if you were ever gonna try that tactic, that was that was the one to do it in when you're like the result doesn't matter. I'm confident I can walk if I need to. And I'll I'll happily walk and make this a in eleven hour day or ten hour day or whatever it ends up being. so I'm just gonna go hard like people seemingly are doing right now. Like Christian and you know, like, you know Jackie Hering: Yeah. Couldn't ⁓ Holly: When it was always like the trope, you know, keep within yourself, keep within yourself. And you're like, Maybe I'm just gonna try not doing that and see how it pans out. Jackie Hering: ⁓ that's what I tried in Kona. It's terrible. It's so bad. It's not recommended. Don't do it. Holly: ⁓ no, I don't think I could do that. I don't do that. Jackie Hering: I mean you can, but then you blow up and have to walk. Yeah. Yeah, it's really painful. Third place was Rachel Zalinkis, which was an awesome race. Do you know her? Holly: Then you're walking, yeah. No, I don't know her at all. No, I don't. I just know I've never raced with her. I just know she's a super good swimmer. And I've never raced Jackie Hering: She You would love racing with her 'cause she's really s gotten really, really strong on the bike too. She would actually be a good race friend for you. Holly: Yeah. But didn't ⁓ am I thinking about a different race now? Yeah, I'm thinking about Boise I just watched. Did did Zelinkus lead out the swim? Jackie Hering: ⁓ she was second. Probably that Laura Hernandez. Yep. And she actually hung on for eighth. Yeah, I mean Rachel Zincas has been like just off and on with different health stuff, but she's really strong. She was a 10k open water swimmer. This chick is like I think she can be really good if she can stay healthy. But yeah, ⁓ Holly: ⁓ yeah, tomei or something? Yeah, no Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah I've never Jackie Hering: Boise, I was supposed to be there. Actually did I tell you I didn't even sign up for it? Holly: What? Did you realize? Jackie Hering: The s I didn't realize. I had all my stuff booked. The start list came out. I didn't tell him I wasn't racing. The start list came out and I looked at it. I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, my name isn't on the start list. That's weird. I forgot. I thought I had signed up. So it was all it all worked out. Holly: Okay. Did you forget? ⁓ yeah. I know. Well it is hard. It is hard to remember like, you know, we're we are glorified age group as in Iron Man. Like it is hard to f to remember that because you're like I know. I know, I know. Yeah. It used to just be, hey, can I race this race? Yeah. Jackie Hering: The actual process is a huge pain. It needs to be completely revamped. For people that don't know that aren't pros. Yeah. But now it's, hey, can I sign up for this race? And then, well, it's only within a certain period of time that registration's open. So like once I see the schedule, this is what happened. At the beginning of the year, I said, here's all the races I want to sign up for. And they're not open. So I could so that's why I missed Boise, because they're like, ⁓ Boise's not open yet. ⁓ Holly: Ha ha I'll send you the link. ⁓ yeah, of course, yeah. ⁓ huh. And they're not open yet, so you can't do it. Yeah. Do you think ⁓ I've done them all for the year? Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Jackie Hering: done. So then I've anyways, we send them an email. They send an email back with a link and we have to click on the link, do the thing, first sign up for your Iron Man license. I find it just really annoying. Holly: I mean it doesn't sound like that. Yeah. Jackie Hering: But I don't like doing extra things, so Yes, so I wasn't signed up, but I thought Boise was really interesting. I thought Hannah DeVay was gonna run I thought she was gonna win. Holly: Yeah. Jackie Hering: I don't know what's up. Like, does she usually run faster? Holly: I have no well, yeah, I don't know. I know in T one hundred Pamplona, she like biked really well and then I don't know where she was after the run. So I don't I just don't know if she's like biking super hard and then doesn't have the run or I don't know I have no idea, don't know much about her. So if she's like under running or overbiking or just that's where she is at, I have no idea. ⁓ I was surprised about Hannah Berry. I thought she Jackie Hering: Do you see? In what way? Holly: I just thought she would have had a better race than that. Like she just Yeah. Not really. Like compared to I feel like she's a yeah, she's stronger. Stronger athlete. Jackie Hering: She did pretty good. Yeah, maybe. Her yeah, her bike, I would have thought she would have wanted to get a little bit bigger gap. Maybe. I I don't know what her I haven't asked her like what her bike was like. I think it was just okay. Actually I did ask her. Her race, she was more happy with it than she was with Happy Valley. So she felt like she's like moving in the right direction. Holly: Yeah. Then ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just see her as yeah, a better athlete than than she's shown over seventy point three recently, I guess. But then she's really bright, man. So Jackie Hering: Well, she kind of falls in sh right. She falls in like the Marta Sanchez category, which is like super strong and consistent Iron Man, and then like just not quite as just like doesn't quite have the seventy point three speed. She does on occasion, though. Sometimes. But yeah, Kristen Casper, I was happy for her. Do you see her? Is she in Boulder? Holly: Yeah, yeah, she does. She does. Yeah. I mean Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. although they moved to Arizona, but she has been here training a bit. ⁓ yeah, yeah, she I think she would be stoked with that. I think she's had some like back issues and stuff, so yeah, I mean maybe she should ⁓ move fully to seventy point three and Jackie Hering: Would you or would you try to go to a home Olympics? Holly: I mean, I don't know. I don't have that same you know I th I think, you know, your career is fleeting and maybe she can have more success right now in seventy point three than be kind of a like Jackie Hering: Mid tier Olymp yeah. Holly: Yeah. Like ⁓ you know, number up make her than in a short course race or maybe make the Olympics, yeah. Yeah. But I think that right now there's probably stronger USA athletes than her, so it's probably a long Jackie Hering: ⁓ one of which one of which you train with. Let's hear all about it. I want I that's actually one topic I did want to talk about because I love how your little training squad looks. I want to move there. I know. Can you like how many group sessions are you guys doing? So the USA Olympian we're talking about is Gina Sereno, right? ⁓ yeah, tell me about your guys' squad out there. Holly: Useful. Yeah, so I mean, right now it like mainly kind of centers around our swim sessions. Like we have two key swim sessions a week and but we meet for every swim. and it's like a mixture of short course, long course. and Gina is yeah, really good short course athlete. She does have a full time job working. ⁓ she moved on from NASA now For another aerospace company, but yeah, she's a in Jackie Hering: Like a normal full time job? Shush. Holly: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like yeah. It's pretty crazy. Like I think at some point you would hope, like, you know, with Olympics on the cars that she would maybe like take yeah, take a leave, like, you know, you've got your whole life to work. I'm sure no one would on a resume and I've never been in the workforce, of course, but like Jackie Hering: Take a leave of absence. Yeah. Yeah. Ha ha ha. Holly: But I don't think anyone would look badly on your resume that you took a couple of years out or a year out to make the Olympics. Like I think if anything, that like strengthens you as a person and ⁓ you know, go get her or whatever. So yeah, she and she's like made huge improv improvements in the swim since she's been with us, and that's really paying off in short course. And yeah, she's super strong runner, she has a running background. ⁓ Jackie Hering: No kidding. Holly: But she's yeah, super strong across all three and yeah, it's fun to like train with different, you know, people at different distances. I feel like even if I it was like having an off day, which over the winter, you know, I always have an off day every now and again, it's nice to like feel like you can still be helpful to someone else. ⁓ and you feel like you get a bit of purpose from that. So yeah, it's nice to have other people in the group. ⁓ She obviously she's working full time. We don't bike so much together unless she's like on a camp or on the weekend. ⁓ but we all generally rolled out together ⁓ for a long bike on the weekend and long runs on the weekend too. So yeah, it's fun. I think there's like ten people or something in the group, maybe. Yeah. Jackie Hering: Do you guys ⁓ that's good. Yeah. Do you swim early then? Holly: Seven o'clock, which I think is early still. Like it's mainly because of, you know, people working. I like to be like awake before swimming, so I'm not someone that can get up at like six twenty before seven A. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah. I get up at five fifteen for my swims. But I like to sleep through the first half of swim ⁓ before I realize what I'm doing. Holly: Really? When's your swimming? No, no, I want to be like at full capacity because otherwise I'm like it's not worth being here. So I get up at like 5 45 for a 7 a.m. swim. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like obviously with Poppy, so it's like it takes time for to get her, you know, fed, chained, whatever, chase her around the house trying to tie her hair back. Jackie Hering: Wow, that's a long time. Do we eat breakfast? Well, me too, but Yeah, get her going. 'Cause Sean brings her on deck. Does she still like sit in the thing? Holly: Yes, if you Yeah, she's still in the carrier, just kinda like bopping around and yeah, like for some reason it still works. Like I'll be so sad when it doesn't 'cause I don't feel like I'm away from her. ⁓ yeah, it's really nice having her around and like ⁓ no one else seems to mind that she's yeah, she's like a participant, so yeah. Jackie Hering: You're getting close. Yeah. Yeah. When I coached I used to coach a masters around here when Skye was a baby and I always had her strapped on the front and I feel like people are dying, you know, you're giving ⁓ a hard set or whatever, and it's like this baby's just like right in their face as I'm talking to ⁓ like, Well, you can't be that upset because there's like a baby here. ⁓ that's fun. Holly: ⁓ Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. There has been one time when she's just like running like, you know, nearer to the end, he'll like get her out and she'll just like running around on Paul's side. And l I think last week she just like fell into the pool. And Sean just Sean just with one hand like grabbed her. She was just soaked. But it's like ⁓ no. She was just like ready to get back in. Yeah. She was Jackie Hering: Ha ha ha. Was she freaked out or was she does she l I'm sure she loves being in the water? Yeah. Holly: She sees us all there every day, like she'll get a cat, put it on, put goggles on, and she's like, I'm ready. Jackie Hering: ⁓ How cute. Have you been ⁓ teaching her how to like swim? Is she going under? Holly: I I mean we try, but we're like we're not equipped for this. We actually need to get like real swim lessons for her. Well, I mean, I feel like we do. I feel like we do. Like because people are like equipped to teach babies. Not she's not a baby anymore, she's nearly two. But like, and I feel like it would be easier if it weren't us, because she'll just like clam onto us. Whereas like maybe she'll Jackie Hering: No, you don't. What why? I'll tell you my experience. Holly: Okay, you tell me your experience. Jackie Hering: I took Hunter to the like infant swim. He wasn't an infant though. He was like two. Like the little, like when they're little, like the where they teach them how to flip over and get air and all that. And he was like a little mama's boy. We were together all the time. And so this was a very traumatizing experience. There were so many tears. And she was like, ⁓ he'll calm down, he'll get used to it. No. Like, it just. Holly: Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Different. ⁓ so you never actually learn anything from it or no? ⁓ okay, well maybe it's fine. Jackie Hering: Not really. I'd say it was like a little it depends how like cling on y they are to you I guess like he was just really like but then when I would take them it's fine we're doing whatever in the water like yeah Holly: Yeah. Yeah. But she won't like float on her back. Maybe I just have higher expectations for her than her for an ability apple. Jackie Hering: Yeah. And we never we never did that with Sky. We just put like the ⁓ like floaty thing on her and sh that's what she wore till she was like three or four and then she just started doing it. And she's she's on swim team and Hunter Hunter o will only swim in the ocean and Sky's on swim team. So I don't know. Holly: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well I was expecting Okay. Okay. Well I think I I thought she should be like floating on her back, being able to like paddle herself back to the wall and I'm like, ⁓ she's so behind. Jackie Hering: Probably not till she's like four or th you know. I think save your money, save the trauma, save the tears. Holly: Yeah, okay. All right. All right. We'll find better then. If I'm swimming like in the afternoon when she's awake, then like Sean will just like swim with her in the play pool next to where I swim. So like we'll all go to the pool together. Like we're all on the same schedule. We'll all go and go to the pool. We'll all go. So like it's nice. And it's like really only because Sean makes it happen, so Jackie Hering: Yeah, I love that. That's cool. Are you riding most of the times during the day with people then? Holly: I mean half and half. There's like a f like some of the guys on the team I'll ride out with sometimes if things line up. ⁓ recently I've been riding with a friend here, who ⁓ won't who won't join our group. I'm always like, You should just join our group because she ends up doing my sessions all the time. ⁓ But yeah, I'm like I actually joined a group ride on the weekend. ⁓ Jackie Hering: What group ride and how far and how hard was it? Tell me. Holly: So it's called the super training ride. Super training ride. Yeah. And you paid you paid to do it, which I find funny. ⁓ and it was I don't know, like 85 miles or something. But it was like one of these rides like and like all all group rides are all different. Like I used to do it one group ride in LA, which I loved 'cause it had like a climb to begin with that like broke it all up and then you're like through and off over the top, like For like 40 minutes. So it ended up being like a hard hill climb and then like 40 minute like tempo over the top. ⁓ and then I just like ride with people afterwards. But this one, it was so hot. It's been so hot in Boulder lately. ⁓ but it like you're doing like a hundred watts for the first hour, which is so not what I normally do. I'm normally like s like lap my like start my garment, you know, straight out. I'm like. Jackie Hering: You go out way too hard. Holly: care about my average, whatever, a little bit too much. and then like when we got to the climb, it was just like full gas. And I like held on for like ten minutes, maybe fifteen minutes before I like ejected myself from the group and then ended up like working with some other people and it was really fun, but there's like a lot of like stop starts and, you know, when there's water stations or whatever. So ⁓ but I think I'll definitely do it again. 'Cause you just like meet people, like I met some guy in his late forties that like is super into time trialing, super strong. And I'm like, yeah, let's ride together. You know, it's like just brings people together. And that's how I met most of my riding friends in LA. So I'm like, well, I should probably do some of this in Boulder now. I can, like, I'm not running. So I did it on a Sunday, which normally would be a long run day. So yeah, there's positives that happen from it. But yeah. Do you do any group rides where you are? Jackie Hering: Yeah. I haven't in quite a while 'cause I do most all my riding Monday to Friday. Like usually like Wednesday and Friday are my kind of longer ride days. And then if it works, like this last weekend I got a weekend ride because Sky was gone. ⁓ but yeah, I mean it's super fun to be out out with a group. I do love it. Makes it go by quick. Holly: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I just love I love riding with pe well, doing anything really with people that are stronger than me. So I'll just like red line until I can't anymore. And I I enjoy doing that. So I need to put myself more into that than just like doing your prescribed workout and yeah. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, I did for a lot of years. I would go to this ride here. There's one, it's like on the west side of town called the Brew Ride. It's from a brewery. And it's a whole bunch of like roadie cyclists. And it's gotten I think I went maybe I went once last year, but it's gotten a little insane. And I can't tell if I've just gotten old and slow or if it's gotten to a level that's just like psycho because there's Holly: No. Yeah. Jackie Hering: So much testosterone. And now I used to always leave with the first group. And then, you know, they presend the route so you know kind of where people are gonna start hitting it. So I would get towards the front because these guys are gonna climb insane. ⁓ like get towards the front and be ready and then just try to hang on. ⁓ but now they get like barely five minutes out of town and just like pin it immediately, and there's no hope. Holly: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: I could drop like f seven minutes in. It's so I can't even leave with the first group and then it's a little depressing. So yeah. The second group, it's not even safe 'cause people think they're racing and like you don't want to be racing with the random people that yeah. Holly: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Right. That's like the readjustment or also 'cause I haven't done it forever that I'm like, I'm so like, that's a hazard, that's a hazard, you know, like even riding from pr through pregnancy and like and it's just when it's your job, you just like, I cannot afford to crash. So I get really like I'm not going near that person. I always like to be on the outside, not on the inside, you know, you're like, it is a risk, but it's also like, Well, it's fun and you can get more out of yourself doing it. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. ⁓ okay, what else should we cover? We can talk about what iron are you gonna do? Or you gotta wait and see. Holly: Yeah. I mean Either Florida, Cosumel, or Western Australia. There's pros and cons for it all. But I think ideally I would like to race Florida just because it's earlier. I feel like I've been training really hard all year. I don't want it to just be like and it's like it's funny, people think, ⁓ well, enjoy the recovery. And you're like, what recovery? I'm now biking, like I've been biking super hard for the lot like since since I got back from Hamburg. Jackie Hering: Yeah. No. Holly: You know, you have more appointments, you have MRIs, you have more bodywork appointments, you have all this stuff. So it's like my job got harder not using them. But ⁓ Yeah, it's just changed. And you get less of the you know, the fun stuff and not racing and so ⁓ yeah, I would like to race Florida and then if I had the option to race Qatar, maybe race Qatar T one hundred. I mean, it was lovely staying in the Ritz last year and Jackie Hering: Right. It's just it's just changed. It doesn't mean you're doing less. ⁓ yeah. Holly: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ I don't know like if I could get in or anything, 'cause obviously I'm not racing Vancouver, probably wouldn't race Dubai. So yeah, not sure how that stands. Jackie Hering: Is that one the f the like end final one again? Holly: Yeah, yeah. But also because like the end of season money isn't you know, the bonus money, whatever, isn't the same as last year. Like it's not as good as it was last year. I don't know if people'll be like, you know, hanging on like a thread like people were last year just to like make it for their end of season bonus money. ⁓ 'cause it's really not that yeah. Jackie Hering: Right. So there might be some spots open where they'll you would definitely get one if you wanted it, I'm sure. Holly: Yeah, yeah. I you'd hope so, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. What about you? Jackie Hering: Yeah. Well, geez, I could use a trip to Qatar. I'll just go it would be long on the list till the I don't know how they even do this list, but I'd be probably pretty far down the list. I don't know how how do they even pick is it just ranking? Is it ranking still? Holly: Yeah. No, I d yeah. Yeah, there is no ranking, but I think they also do wildcards and I don't know. I should probably like yeah, speak to Dylan now. But ⁓ are you gonna try and do a race before next year? After Kona? Or do you think you'll be done for the year? Yeah. Cause you last year, right? Jackie Hering: No. I'm gonna be done. I say that. ⁓ what's that? Every year I say I'm done after Kona and then I'll take I do because I take Well, I only train for three weeks before Indian Wells. I take three week two or three weeks off after Kona and I do like literally nothing and then I start exercising and then magically I feel like I'm in shape again. So I so if I do Indian Wells or or whatever, it would be Holly: ⁓ then you race into the miles, right? Mm. Jackie Hering: Just 'cause I like to, 'cause it's fun, just to see where things are at. Holly: Yeah. But you will come off after Kona as if it's the end of the year. Yeah. That's I think that's the key really. Like even last year, like I raced Kona and I was so burnt out after Kona. 'Cause like obviously just it was a hard year coming back from pregnancy, like you know, broke my sacrum. It's like are you like going like trying, trying, trying all year and I pro I was really like emotionally and physically done at Kona, but I still had Dubai and Jackie Hering: Yeah, it will be the end. Holly: To do. And I feel like that's what really what nailed me for this the start of this year. Like the start of this year, I got sick a bunch. ⁓ it just wasn't going. You know, when you just don't feel like you're really absorbing the training or trying really hard, but it's just like it's not moving the needle in the way it should do. ⁓ so yeah, it is like I think I would only race guitar like. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Holly: if I was excited to do that, because like I was dragging going into Dubai and dragging going into Qatar and I was just like, I'm so need a break, you know, and then like you don't have enough of a break. And I feel like the years can just kind of roll away from you if you really don't take the breaks you need. And you're really good at doing that. Jackie Hering: Well, I I feel like when my physical and mental and it like emotional like the whole battery itself gets downed, like I I just can't push on. I'm just I just don't. I don't know. Yeah, so maybe that makes me good at that. But if there was it would be tough like your situation last year. I mean, you were doing well in the series. Like I think in that position it would be hard for me to be Holly: Yeah. That's Jackie Hering: to put on the brakes because you're like, I'm committed to this a this you know? Holly: It's also muddy, it's hard to turn down. Like I I was one score down, so I only I can't remember, was it five scores, five scores that scored, five races that scored. I only had four because I DNF'd in London, cause I tried to race after three weeks after Placid, going straight back into it. You know, I was already burnt out in London. and I still got top ten, 70k, and you're like, Great, but you're kind of like Jackie Hering: No. Holly: doing the I am at and the T one hundred and you're like this financially, this, you know, it's like it it's gonna catch up to you at some point and it definitely did for me. So like that's also why I'm like I'm not super upset about this 'cause I'm like, yeah, I kinda did it to myself. Jackie Hering: Yeah, it you can only chase do it all for so long. It's true. Yep, we're not machines. Holly: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you see like, you know Lucy when she didn't start in seventy point three World ⁓ not seventy point three I am World's n in niece ⁓ two years ago was it? you know, that I everyone's kinda been through it and you see it all the time. So yeah, it's not it's not the most surprising thing ever. Jackie Hering: No, I mean we're gonna see Holly: But i I would like to do I would like to do an Iron Man at the end of this year to qualify for next year. And that would like massively take the pressure off, take a real off season, build upright, you know, do all the things that I haven't felt like I've been able to do in the last couple of years, whether it's from pregnancy or just being after burnout last year. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I think that's a good plan. You just gotta just get the qualification check mark, hopefully, and then you won't have to worry about that. I know that always like makes it can make racing much more relaxing. After that, you can pick what you want. Co we could do a race together. Holly: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. That would that would be lovely. You were fine. I was listening to I think it was your ⁓ race with your podcast with Paula, my brain shutting down. ⁓ and you said you would like you like racing together. And I'm like, that's always been my I'm like, I'll do an Iron Man if I get to like do it with a buddy. Like that sounds lovely. Like I would love to do that. Like, you know, if you could like time trial two up, you know run together. Jackie Hering: Ha ha ⁓ yes, I would love that. You you could do that potentially with Paula. Holly: I would like to do it, yeah. You're ⁓ you are. Jackie Hering: I sadly I'm not fast enough. Aww Maybe after these big bike weeks I'll I'll be ⁓ I don't know. The swim, I'm swimming fine, but you'd have to put like a dang jet pack on my butt to swim with you. Holly: Yeah. Yeah. There's otillos, you like get tethered together. That would be fun. That would be fun. Jackie Hering: Yes! That's what we need. A tether. That would be fun. If only but have you watched those? Like those are some like seriously rough ⁓ running conditions. That might be a little bad for us. Yeah. ⁓ okay, any very early. I know you're not gonna be in Kony, but Kona, but Koni. Holly: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Jackie Hering: Very early thoughts or predictions for Kona. What do we think? Holly: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. kind of crazy Alanis isn't gonna go, right? Jackie Hering: Are we going round two of the nib Lucy Demolition? I know. I was very surprised that she didn't say like, ⁓ yeah, I'm gonna go do I thought for sure she was like, ⁓ I'm gonna go do Sweden and go to Konam freak. She's not. She seemed pretty set on that plan. Holly: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. Wild. I mean, she just like I mean, we haven't really spoken about Roth, but yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy. And I'm like, wow, I would like to see her versus Solvig versus Lucy, you know, on her day. Everyone on their day, like, yeah, how that would pan out, I don't know. Jackie Hering: That was Holly: Obviously Julie Duron, we don't really know how she is against other people. She can have crazy races and maybe that's the thing in the Bret Sutton camp that like no Julie's going. Yeah, who knows? Who knows? It's like a waiting line, you know. ⁓ yeah. Solvig's obviously Yeah. Jackie Hering: Julie needs her day, yeah. And then you can do it next year. Well, she's been s she hasn't like she after Hamburg, like she's having trouble getting like back in her rhythm. I think I think she's coming around now, but like we've messaged back and forth here and there and she was like had that a really bad training camp and was like trying to get her footing. Holly: Still? Still? Yeah. I mean I feel like I feel like that's what I got caught caught into at the beginning of the year. Like I got sick twice and just, you know, wasn't the same for ages. ⁓ and I feel like this stuff's going around. Like I don't want to be that person with a mask anymore, but I still will because I'm like, I'm not I'm not getting this again. Do you know I before even COVID existed, you know, when you go to a doctor's office and they have the masks up front and they had this before COVID. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Don't do it, no, Holly. Holly: I always used to take one and I used to put it in my laptop bag and I was like, if anyone around me is coughing on a flight, I will wear it. Never did. Never had the balls to do it, even if someone was coughing. I would just like make Haisa their air hostess and be like, Can I sit in another seat, please? ⁓ But yeah, I mean, it just sucks since COVID. There's always been like these illnesses and stuff that's like taking people out. I don't know if it happened before or whatever, but anyway. Jackie Hering: It's always happened. I think it's just a a situation where first we don't want to admit we're sick, so we keep training. And then our body's trying to get better, but then we're training. So it just like gets it into too big of a hole. Like I that's what I had, I think. What did I do before Happy Valley? ⁓ pretty much from Iron Man, Texas through Holly: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ yeah, I mean Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: The week after Happy Valley. So, like how many weeks is that of where I wasn't absorbing anything, I was feeling like crap, but I was still pretty much training, thinking I was okay. And then you're just in this spiral. So Holly: But I don't know. I've actually been thinking about ⁓ going to Kona just to watch. Jackie Hering: Please, then you could be the boots on the ground for the women's race podcast. I'll try to fundraise. Holly: I could be. I could be. I would have serious FOMO, but like an like really ⁓ Jackie Hering: Iron Man would probably hire you. You could do some reporting. You don't wanna do that? Holly: No, I don't I can't rely. My brain and my mouth don't don't speak at the same time. Sometimes my mouth just moves and then then something will come out just to fill the gap and I'm like, ⁓ yeah, no, I don't I don't think I'm suited to that. But ⁓ yeah, I do like ⁓ in previous years I've like, you know, not wanted to be part of it. If I'm injured, I can't even watch it or whatever. But now I'm like Jackie Hering: Oi. They're not communicating. Holly: You know, I still yeah, I still wanna be part of it. I still wanna you know, cone is such a big thing, so I don't know, I might go. I still have a competition I bought at the beginning of the year and it's not refundable anyway, so maybe I will. Jackie Hering: That would be You should come, that'd be so fun. We can hang out on the beach. Holly: But I wanna have like some kind of purpose. So someone give me a job. Like personally, like you could give me a job to do to help you. I'll be there with No, not to not today, no. But anyway, anyway No. But anyway, it will be it'll be super interesting. Do you have any ⁓ thoughts on how the race is gonna go? Jackie Hering: Okay. Well I can't pay you. You could go find a paying job. I'll bring you a microphone and somehow we'll figure out how to record out on site. People It could potentially be Cat's year. Cause I think she's had she's had so many years where it seems like everything goes perfectly for her. And I feel like this year she had the Texas thing. She had a screwed up body. Like her body wasn't right in Roth. And so I think she saved herself like Holly: No. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Well what what happened in Roth, do you know? Jackie Hering: I think she was just a little sick, like stomach sick. Holly: Okay. But they didn't really announce it, right? They didn't really say anything. I feel like some people like, you know, they don't want to make excuses or whatever. So like you end up just not really finding out about what's going on with people or like why they've had it and they don't want to look not gracious or not, you know, whatever to the people who won or but I'm always like, I just wanna know. Jackie Hering: Well, I think it just Yeah. Yeah. I think that's yeah, because obviously that's not how she normally races. Like that's obvious something was going on. So she I Holly: Yeah. But then I do wonder, like, as her run is coming on so much that like is her bike becoming less of a weapon 'cause you know, she was biking like the best people like a couple of years ago. Like yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I think well, I guess what I'm getting at is I think she's an interesting one because she saved like two trips to the well that now she'll have she'll be super good in Kona to like dig really super deep because she hasn't done it in quite a while. So I think could she could have a year. Maybe. Yep. Or we'll just watch the Lucy Taylor show. I can't wait. That would be fun just to come out and watch that. Holly: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah, it would. It would. I think they'd both be kind of scared of what happened last year. Jackie Hering: No kidding. Yeah. I'm scared of what happened to me and I was back in no man's land by then. So nobody wants to blow up in Kona twice. What? Holly: Did you heat stroke? Did you heat stroke? No. Jackie Hering: No, I just just utilized every porta potty, which can easily give you heat stroke because it is so, so, so hot. I had a terrible stomach problem because I rode too hard and then I f screwed up my fueling. It was just it it all is connected. It was a whole bunch of poor choices, Holly. And I wanted I wanna do better. Holly: ⁓ What? Why? Why did they have certain issues? Do you know? ⁓ What choice ⁓ is I think that is what keeps you going and I'm and like honestly, like earlier this year I was kind of like, ⁓ maybe I'm done, you know, maybe I'm retired. Which Sean's always like, You're just tired. Like anytime that I bring up, he's like, You're tired. I'm like, No, I'm retired. Retired. And he's like and then like, you know, the cloud will left in a couple weeks and I'll like, you know, not running or whatever. And I'm like, huh. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Retired. Holly: Sure, maybe I was tired and he's like, Can't ⁓ Jackie Hering: It's like every week before your period magically you retire and then unretire a week and a half later. Holly: ⁓ but honestly you're always like left thinking, ⁓ God, I you know, I could do better than that. I couldn't, you know, there's always something that you feel like you crack. And I've really not shown anywhere near my capabilities in a in an Iron Man. So I feel like that's why I'm really like I really I really have to just do this until I feel like I'm like, okay, I've put I've put my best kind of into that. Do you feel like still with Iron Man? Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. I I had the most amazing Iron Man in Hamburg a couple of years ago and I don't know if a day can ever feel like that day. Holly: No. But that's what we're all searching for. You to even like say it like that. You're just like still like, ⁓ just good Yeah. Yeah, you won it. You won it. Jackie Hering: I just had the day when you have the Yeah, I went super fast. I don't even know how. It's just f and it it's like the day where it doesn't feel like there were times that felt hard, but the hard was like appropriate for like the power or the pace that I was doing or like where I was in the race. Like it just happened. Holly: Mm. Yeah. Well yeah. But you know, like your best performances and this is like it's funny to think about it, like your best performances, like they're almost like you're just like, ⁓ yeah, it feels good. Like, you know, it's like it's not this like hard feeling, but when you know, when even when I've been racing recently, it's just like, ⁓ how much can you take? You know, not like ⁓ yeah, this feels so good, it's exciting, you know? And like I wanna race again and feel that. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. Holly: Which I have been in training recently, like and it's mainly on the bike that I've like not been performing the way I feel like I should and I can. ⁓ and like recently when I've been biking like that, I'm like, okay, I wanna race and be able to feel that. Like, yeah. Jackie Hering: Yes, me too. I mean, we gotta just keep racing, no retiring, until we have one more race that we just like hit. Holly: It's like these people are chasing the perfect wave and it's like it never exists. Smoking like an addict, like we should speak to Lino and be like, does it is this what you were chasing? ⁓ Jackie Hering: Yeah we just wanna hit the flow one more time. Just give us one more That's kinda what it is, yes. this what you're looking for? I know all about that too, Holly, but I just don't air my dirty laundry out in the world. Yeah. ⁓ okay, we should wrap it up. It's an hour three. Anything else you need to share with the world? Holly: Okay. Okay. ⁓ I know, no. But if anyone wants to come and train with me, I feel like no one ever asks me because they think, well, we you can stay in the basement here. We got everyone has a basement in Colorado. We literally don't go down here. It's got its own living room, a bedroom, bathroom. I'm in the basement. Yeah. In the basement. ⁓ my hair's going sleep. Jackie Hering: No. I do, said The base How inviting ⁓ that does that you're in the basement now, that does look nice. ⁓ Well, okay, we'll we'll c we'll end this off. But if ⁓ I would like to come train with you. But as you know. Holly: You should. And also I heard you talking about going to a training camp with Paula. I'm like, can I get the invite too? Jackie Hering: Yes, you do. Cause I was thinking like, you know, I can I can hang on Paula's wheel most of the time on the bike and I am a good run training partner for her, but I would have nothing to offer. I mean, I swam with her when we were at the TTL camp or whatever, and I can I can swim with her if I like leave right behind her. But I feel like you could bring you could really help her swim. Holly: ⁓ yeah, yeah. I'll be swimming. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Jackie Hering: leading into Kona. And I'll just be I'll just be back there. Holly: That's my job. That's my job. I'll take it. I'll take it. Jackie Hering: But yes, we'll keep you in the loop, of course, for whatever camp. It's just hard. You'd have to bring your kid probably. I would leave mine behind. Holly: Yeah. I've not once spent a night without her. I don't think I could. Jackie Hering: I mean you will eventually. It's nice. All right. Let's wrap it up. Thanks for coming on again. And all you people out there, thank you for listening. Many of you have told me that you are requesting a little jingle, a little song for the intro and outro. And I am sending that request right back to you people to produce me a song. Holly: Maybe. Yeah. I just single. ⁓ okay. Jackie Hering: ⁓ because I'm not any expert at any of that. But if you send me a jingle, I will put it at the beginning and end if I like it. And then you could be happy. So send it on over. Holly, you got any jingles? You want to? We could have Poppy sing a little song for us. No. Okay. Well, anyhow, thanks for listening, guys. And I will talk to you again next Friday. Holly: ⁓ I'm gonna take the point. Yeah, no, I don't think you'd want that. No.