Jackie: Hi everyone and welcome to the Women's Race Podcast. I'm your host here, Jackie Herring. In this podcast, we dive into women's professional trathlon racing by chatting with athletes, breaking down races, and sharing some of the realities of life as professional women in the sport. My goal is to bring you conversations that go beyond the results sheets and tell some of the stories of the women I get to race with and hear about how they are, maybe outside of the numbers that you see on paper. And today I'm excited to welcome a new guest. She's from GB. We're getting outside the US, outside Australia. We're really expanding here. And we have Indy Lee here on the show. I will do a quick intro of you, Indy, but ⁓ shut yours if it makes you uncomfortable. I won't go too deep. ⁓ she's been a professional triathlete for quite a while. I think started in short course and then moved up to the middle and long. Indie: Thank Jackie: Her career has been not the most straightforward because she's an athlete that's had some incredible highs, some super cool victories and breakthrough performances, but also we've seen ⁓ some challenges and some road bumps along the way. So it's a really cool, I think, path where we can see that it's really difficult to stay at the top of this sport. And we all deal with a lot of ups and downs. And I'm excited to get into some of that. ⁓ one thing I really admire about you, Indy, is that you continue just to find your way and deal with these ups and downs and then show up and get back to ⁓ back on top. So it's gonna be great. She just raced at Iron Man Hamburg and knocked out a Kona qualification, which is awesome. ⁓ and today we'll talk about all sorts of different things. And but first off, Indie: Yeah. Jackie: I just wanna start off by saying really good job at Hamburg. I'm proud of you. And we'll get into that race, but first I just wanna hear like how your recovery's been and how you're feeling now. Indie: Yeah, well thanks for having me on your podcast. I'm excited to have a little chat. Yeah, thank you for the Hamburg stuff. To be honest, the biggest emotion is just relief that I got the Kona qualifying done. It was my first race that I finished this year. And so I feel like I was a bit late to the party, but yeah, recovery off it has gone the best I've recovered off an Ironman. That feels quite good. I had a week of doing hardly anything and then this week I'm getting back into it but I've got a of a cold slash hay fever. I don't know what it is but inevitably I got sick after an Ironman so here we are. Jackie: Mm. I mean that's that's kinda par for the course. I feel like half the that happens to like almost everybody. Indie: Yeah. Yeah, was like, it was a wet day as well. So like after you finished, you're like sitting around in the wet and cold. So it's probably unsurprising. Jackie: So Yeah, well, that's that's kinda hamburg for you. It rains like all week. Both times I was there, it's like nonstop rain. So I mean, what can you do about that? So getting into Hamburg, I guess maybe we rewind just a little bit because you kinda had like a couple false starts, I think, to your year before that. Am I right in thinking that? Indie: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, so I had I intend I intended to race Texas. That was like my my A plan. So that's my that was my A plan for the year. And then I got sick. But basically since Kona last year, I've just been like, like a bit screwed, screwed and like, just Jackie: So like what kind of went on? Indie: I think I underestimated how hard I worked in that race, slash how much I went to the well and then I just didn't recover off it. And then that just had a knock on effect until I started feeling good again in like basically April. I was just like below par. And yeah, I was like two weeks out from Texas and I just thought there's absolutely no way I get around an Ironman. Like probably like more mentally rather than physically. And then, um, then I went in to do a T 100 in Spain and, um, had a bit of a rough go in the swim and didn't make it three T one. So that was another great start to the year thinking, yeah, let's, let's start on a high. So then going into Hamburg, it was like, Oh man, am I like made for this anymore? Like, I don't know if I've still got it. I just, yeah, like. Jackie: Mm. Indie: Confidence-wise, was like real low, but I got onto a start line and I finished the race, so that was good. Jackie: Yeah, I mean it's really tough. You know, I was back there by you and Kona. I don't think either of us had like, you know, any type of day that we were imagining having. ⁓ no one really imagines we had a nice walk. I hate walking. And all these ⁓ it's so sad. And you even like Indie: No. We had a nice walk along Queen K though. I hate walking. Yeah. Jackie: I think you even told ⁓ either you left me behind or I left you behind. I can't remember which. Indie: You were like, come on, let's start jogging. And then we started jogging together and I was like, no Jackie, I can't even jog. Yeah, I'll see it at the finish. Jackie: You're like, I can't. Meanwhile, I'm like I ha I I came a point where I'm like I I'm dying like really slow death out here and I'm either just gonna die out here or I I have like twenty minutes left of available life and I I need to like I need to get this thing over with before it before I fully run out of energy. So ⁓ yeah, it's sad and it I think it's really hard when things don't go the way you want and it Indie: Yeah. I'm not it with a slag of energy. Yeah. ⁓ huh. Jackie: And then on paper it looks like it was so slow, it's like, okay, I don't need as much recovery. I went like like that was ridiculous. How could it have used so much? Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, like I walked half of the marathon, like why am I so tired after this? But yeah. Jackie: Right. But I think it's because we really did a number on our bodies and then like almost worse than if it would have gone well, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get into something good, which was Hamburg. so I kind of want to hear just like a quick run through of what your day was like. ⁓ I've raced there twice, so I'm pretty familiar. ⁓ I'm interested to hear like what you what you made of the swim, where you were at. You actually Indie: Listen. Yeah, yeah exactly. Okay. Mm-hmm. Jackie: ⁓ compared to the last couple of years, there was actually some fast swimmers available at this race, which was nice. ⁓ yeah. So kind of walk us through your day. Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Well, I started off the first 300 metres of swim was really good. And then about 400 metres, for some reason, I just dropped off the front pack. And that was a bit demoralising. You're like six minutes into an Ironman and I'm like, ⁓ that's where I should be, with that lot and they're just swimming off up the lake. Yeah. Jackie: Did that effort just feel did it just feel too hard for an Iron Man? Indie: Yeah, I just thought like there's no way I can swim like this for an hour and at the start of an Ironman, like I'm just going to burn too many matches when like, I'd like fully, I'd thought that I would comfortably be within that swim group, but obviously it just wasn't my swim day. And then I was pretty isolated all the way, like all the way out and then. It's just one big loop. all the way out, I was just on my own thinking, I'm just going backwards and backwards. And then went around the top turn boys and I saw that I still had a gap to the chase pack. And then literally like 300 meters later, I saw Lisa and Laura who were leading that chase pack. And I was like, oh my God, like how have they caught me up? Like I must be so, so slowly. And I just went into a bit of a mental spiral then thinking, ⁓ like, yeah, I'm done. Like, isn't for me. Like, what? Jackie: What? Well it's kinda messed up because normally y you would maybe swim with Lisa Perter, but the fact that Laura's there is like why is she there? That's what's concerning. Indie: Yeah, but she... Yeah. Yeah, and it was like the whole, like, it was basically like the whole big group. And I was like, oh, I'm like, man, like, I thought I'd have maybe like three or four minutes on these girls, like out the swim. And then they came past me. And then I got onto the back of that group and I was just thinking, oh, like, just, you just got to get out the water. And then I got out of the water, had a terrible transition, and then they had all gone off up the road. And so... Jackie: Yeah. Yeah. Indie: Then I spent the first lap of the bike riding on my own as well. And it's a pretty lonely course, isn't it? Like you, didn't have anyone out there giving me splits really, other than the bit in town. And so I had no idea if I was like catching, if I was maintaining or anything. And so I was just thinking like, well, I'll just get to the end of the first bike lap and like see how you're doing. And then ⁓ I got a time gap to Laura. Jackie: Yeah. Indie: and was like a minute and I thought, like, maybe I'll try and catch her. And then I could, and then on the second lap, I started to be able to see her and that gave me a bit of a boost. But yeah, I guess for the first four hours of the race, I was just like, you're rubbish. Like, you're done, you're a has been. Yeah, was brutal. It was so brutal. Like you can be so unkind to yourself when you get in that frame of mind. Jackie: A ⁓ And it and it's so hard to be kind of by yourself in no man's land for that long and not have any information, like am I doing good, am I not doing good? Like was your data telling you anything positive? Indie: Yeah, yeah, I love to say get off. Like, yeah, yeah. My day, I was riding like what I thought I could ride. I was riding what I'd intended to ride. So that was a positive. And then I think the more I kept on doing that, I thought, you must be okay. Just sort yourself out. And then there was actually one part on the start of the second lap where I literally out loud to myself, was like, heaven's sake, get a grip, grow up and just get on with it. Jackie: Yeah. Indie: You're out here now, just stop feeling sorry for yourself. You're better than this and get on with it. so I think that sort of snapped me out of the negative spiral. And then I got onto the run and I had the best time ever. I had like, yeah, so mad. The contrast from when I got out of the swim to 2K into the run was nice and day. Jackie: Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Indie: And I had quite a few family and friends out there in different pockets along the run route, so that was really nice. And every time I got to them, I'd be like, I like to have a bit of engagement, so I like to of stay present. So that was quite fun. And yeah, it's the best I felt on an Ironman run, well, in all the races I've done, so that was a really nice feeling to end on. And then I think, because I ended on that, it's sort of given me bit of hope for the rest of the year. Jackie: Yeah, for Yeah, as it should. Like what number Iron Man is that for you? I can pull up You've only done a couple, a few. Indie: Yeah, maybe six. Jackie: Okay. Indie: six or seven. Jackie: Yeah, I mean it's it's still ki still kind of a small sample size. So you're gonna have a lot of a lot of different experiences. But I think what what is cool about Iron Man is we it gives you enough time to have the full spectrum of a terrible day, become your own therapist, fix yourself, and then have a good day, like all in one outing. And I feel like in a half you don't get the opportunity to like work through it all. Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's wild. No, like in a half if it's going badly it's going badly quickly. Yeah. ⁓ Jackie: It's just bad. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Well that's awesome. So on the run, so you came off the bike, ⁓ kind of around Laura, right? Ish. Indie: Yeah, yeah, and then she just sped off. Jackie: She did her thing. ⁓ were you like kind of around other people on the run? Were you passing people? Were you just holding your spot? Indie: I think I was on my own the whole day. I overtook, I started the run in seventh and I finished in seventh, but I overtook Lottie Wilms on the last lap. And then with 5K to go, my quad just like totally seized up and I'm like running and I've gone past her, but I'm thinking, like if she comes back past me, I got nothing. And then... You know at the end of the lap you have to go around that little triangle, square bit, the square that's a triangle. Doesn't make sense but you know what I mean. Every time I went round a bend there, my quadture just getting worse and worse and then I could see her catching me and I was thinking, I got nothing, I just gotta get to the finish. And so that was the only bit of racing I had, all day basically. Jackie: Yeah. Wow. And you only had like half function of your quads for the racing bit, so that's that's fun. ⁓ I hate that feeling when the quads go and you just have like knives in ⁓ and there's like literally nothing yeah, you there's nothing you can do about that. ⁓ so so you got that done and Kona was the main goal. So you got your main objective. ⁓ is that kind of the main outlook? Indie: Yeah. Yeah, and every step is just pain. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jackie: For for this season or is is there like a side quest that you're working on or is it really just Kona? Indie: I think it's just Kona now. Last year I raced, well the last two years I've just raced too much. And so this year it was like, it was really intentional to not race as much and hopefully get to Kona in a better spot and like less mentally fatigued and that kind of thing. yeah. Excuse me. Kona's the main goal. Jackie: have your ⁓ results pull that's the main goal I have your results pulled up here on Pro Try News you raced 11 times last year that's right that's a lot like five hundred five T100s five 70.3s and two fulls so yeah that'll do it I mean Indie: for now. Yeah. Any questions? Yeah. And I think probably like three of them were good, Which isn't good odds. Jackie: Three I mean It's it's not a great percentage, but there's a lot of people that are like that. That just like really you know, you have really good really good ones and so I mean it is goal a good goal to try and find what you can do or how you can become more consistent if that is a goal. ⁓ and maybe racing less will will help you achieve that. What do you think? Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, like, yeah, I think it definitely is because all the races I did well at last year were the ones that I like, properly, I had like a good block before and I was like, just properly prepared for and then the ones that went badly were the ones where I was just like trying to hang on after a good race or at the end of the year when my body was just like so tired that there was there's no chance really that I had to do it. Jackie: Yeah. So you work with a coach, right? So do you guys kind of sit down and like plan this out together then for your season? Okay. Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we planned it out. Well, we planned it out at the start of the year and it looked one way. And then there's a, I've got a very vivid memory of being in Lanzarote on a training camp in like the middle of March. And I was trying to do a session of literally one minute on, one minute off at like half marathon pace. And I didn't even run like marathon pace for the half marathon pace sessions, the half marathon pace efforts. And I just sat on the car and I was like, Sam, like, I cannot go to Texas. Like, this is ridiculous. And he was like, yeah, I agree. He's like, your body's just screwed. I was like, yeah, my body's just screwed. And then he's like, we'll just have two weeks off. So literally like in March I had two weeks off and then started again. So, yeah. Jackie: Ho ho ho ho ho Athe. ⁓ Wow. And then from when you started back up again, was it did it did the training then did you like feel like you were adapting and actually like accepting the training better? Indie: ⁓ Yeah, way better. Up until that point, I could do the sessions, but I would get to maybe two weeks in and do a long run or a long ride with efforts in, and then I just wouldn't recover off it. And I'd either get sick or just be completely flat for a week. But then once I had the little reset, we started building a bit steadier. It's been a bit smoother sailing since then. Jackie: Yeah. ⁓ I'm glad you're able to recognize that and take a step back. Cause I feel like a lot of people get stuck in this cycle where they'll just continue on, never adapting, just get themselves so exhausted. And then Yeah, it's never coming good. You're either getting you're gonna keep getting sick or you're gonna get injured, and then it's like your body will force you. Yeah, well, that's good. So now are you on Indie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you think, ⁓ it'll come good, it'll come good, but then it just doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's like six months of, Jackie: Gonna rebuild towards something before Kona. Indie: Yeah, I'm going to do a couple of 70.3s. So I'll do Swansea 70.3 because it's like a three hour drive from here. And then Zellamsee, which is in Austria. Have you raced that one before? Jackie: ⁓ nice. Yeah. No, but that is it would take a lot for me to fly to Europe for a seventy point three, but that is one that ⁓ actually looks really nice to me. Indie: You Yeah, everyone says it's gorgeous, so I'm excited to go there. And then that'll be it before Kona. Jackie: Isn't that the one? That's the one, isn't it, where it's like looks like a normal water lake swim and then they just like run. Is this the one where they like run in the water forever? I think it is, like it's like so shallow and they just run. And then they like hit a trough and like fall in, and then they get back up and run again. I hope that's the one. Go, ⁓ Indie: Oh, oh maybe. Oh yeah, because it's so shallow. Well that'll be fun. But yeah. Jackie: Go rewatch I'll go rewatch it on the trainer. I'll let you know. We get a lot of Yeah. Indie: ⁓ no, don't do the swarms on Ruby, they? That would be tricky. Jackie: ⁓ no. I got nothing to do with Ruby. They're not it they don't sponsor me. Even though I probably ride the trainer as much as friggin' Lucy Charles. But that's fine. That doesn't mean I love it. Indie: No. You love the trainer, you're always on the trainer. You inspire me to get up. You inspire me. Jackie: ⁓ no. That's okay because actually I see that the video is not working, so we don't gotta worry about it. I can just you can take a break. I can chop this out. I inspire you on the trainer. ⁓ Indie: That's good. Yeah, in the winter. Because I think Jackie's doing it. You can do it. Jackie's, Jackie's own Wisconsin. You can do it. Come on. I hate the trainer so much. Jackie: Yeah. It does. It's a love hate for me because I can feel it really works. Like I really do get strong off it. Like come spring, I feel like I'm probably like as strong as I'm gonna be pretty much all year on the bike. So how I know like whatever work I'm doing over winter, that's that's pretty much what where I'm gonna be at. And I don't know. It is tough, but I do I often think about ⁓ Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie: Other women too when I'm training. Like when I when I see people doing hard stuff, I'm like, all right. Everybody, everyone's out there grinding. Like they're really doing it. so you've got a good result this year, at least one under the belt. So that's a good sign. you feel like you're going in the right direction once you get get this cough knocked out. ⁓ I want to talk about kind of Indie: See ya. Everyone's doing this, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie: A topic I've touched on a little bit with some of the other guests, which is what happens when you have like what looks like from the outside world, like a breakout performance, which which I think you've had one of those. I'm so boring. I've never experienced anything like this. I just like chuck along at at wherever I'm at. ⁓ but once you have this breakout, then all of a sudden. Indie: Mm hmm. Yeah. Jackie: Like for you, like that T one hundred race, and then all of a sudden magically you're in all the T one hundred media, all this, like what does that feel like? And how have you like figured out how to navigate that if you have? And like what what do you think about all that? Indie: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ huh. Yeah, that T100 race in Miami after that, it was pretty mad. I'm pretty, I'm quite low-key anyway. I'm not huge on social media. I'm not one to put myself out there, I suppose. And so it was a bit of a challenge that then people wanted me to do interviews before races and wanted to know what I'm thinking and how I'm going. the same as before. I just had one good race, that's it. Yeah, it's pretty challenging to be honest. then you get people nagging you that you gotta do more on social media. Yeah, and yeah. Jackie: Like sponsors or events or just Indie: How do I navigate it? Not very well, not very proactively. ⁓ I just want to be like in my own little world, which I appreciate that's not really what the point of professional sport is, to just like be in your own little world and like go out training and like not really care about what anyone's thinking and just wanting to prepare for races and stuff. I appreciate that professional sport these days is more about like people wanting to know your story and everything. Jackie: Well it gets Indie: I just don't find myself that interesting that I would think other people would be interested. you know, like that's what I... You just think like, why are bothered? But also thank you for being bothered. Thank you. Yeah. Why? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Jackie: I know exactly. That's how I feel. yeah. Yes. Wow, you care, but also I don't know what to say. Like it's interesting. I think that's that's why, you know, none of us in triathlon, I don't think, really started this sport for like fame and fortune. It's most people, especially those of us who've been doing it a longer time. Indie: Yeah. Jackie: There was no media back a long time ago. Like you truly did just get to train, show up to races, and get on with it. And if you had a good race or a bad race, ⁓ for the perception of anybody that wasn't at that race, nothing really ever changed. And I think what's so different now is like even with some of these lower tier races, you know, like I won a low tier 70.3, and because Lionel was there. Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie: It's blown everywhere. And I'm like, all right, that's cool 'cause I won. That's awesome. But if if I hadn't won, I'd be like, I'm kind of embarrassed of this result. I'd rather like I went there 'cause there was about to be no cameras there. And Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to get a race done and then get on with the year. Jackie: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's certainly an interesting thing now, but we we do have to be social part of the social media machine, it seems. ⁓ Indie: Yep. You gotta get the content out there and have your picture taken. The thing I hate the most is those studio photos. ⁓ my gosh. Like, I just feel so like, it makes my skin cool because I feel so uncomfortable. I'm just like stood there going, hands on hips, smile, serious, smile, serious. And you're just like, Jackie: The studio. Indie: God. Jackie: It's so brutal and doesn't it feel messed up because you look at some people's photos and I swear some people actually enjoy it. Like I've seen some peop some faces and I've walked in and I'm like, I think they're having fun. I think they're enjoying. Indie: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Have you, have you practiced for this? Jackie: Have you been in your your they're in their apartment like Indie: Yeah, the bit at the end when they're like, like, just freestyle a bit and we'll get some like cool pics. I'm like, freestyle? Like, me freestyling is walking out of here. Like, thank you. Jackie: No. Yeah, like I'm not freestyling a s photo shoot in my spare time. That's not really like what I'm trying to be good at. Yeah, it's a tricky one for sure. ⁓ do you find that you that that that like the expectations thing, do you feel like your personal expectations changed after winning a big race? Or do you feel like it's more expectations from the outside? Indie: Yeah. I think my expectations didn't really change because like that the race that in Miami like the performance that I put together wasn't like anything like spectacular it was just like on that day it was the best out of people who were there like it was early in the year it was I was just super super fit and I just I just had a really good day. And so it wasn't like, ⁓ like you can never do that again. But then maybe, I think part of it is, there is like a tricky part of it where like I've, like I won that race and then I was thinking, ⁓ like I've had that experience and I think, ⁓ like I'd love to do that again. And then if you, like the next race I went into was Singapore and I didn't even finish. And so I'm thinking like, ⁓ my gosh, like. I've gone for this high to like straight back down to the bottom. Like, will I ever get back there again? And then maybe going into races like last year, I was thinking, or like the year before after that race, was thinking like, if I don't podium or anything, like, I haven't, I haven't proven that I was like worthy of that Miami result almost that was just a fluke because there were a lot of people saying that it was just a fluke and like that kind of irked me a bit because I felt like I don't want it to be a fluke, I want to have other good results. Jackie: No Right. Yeah. And then you kinda gotta navigate like yeah, dealing with people. I guess if you worry about what people say, there's like way too many people that think they know what's going on sometimes that that can't always see what's happening. But I mean, what's interesting is I've a lot of people when they have really good results, they're really just executing their normal day. Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Jackie: And it happens to be the day that the execution works and the body's its best. Like it's just so rare for everything to line up like that, where just everything works correctly. I've had only very, very few days like that. And that's why I think it's it's good to keep that in mind that at any time the execution could just line up with your body. Indie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's what happened for me in that day. Like my hormones were on like the best day that it could have been. then like I was going into that race with like zero expectations. Like nobody was like considering me to have like a good day or like to be competitive at the front. And then I just had a really, really good day. And that's, that was the outcome. Jackie: functioning at its absolute best and you could just have the day. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I saw you. It was either before that race or another one. And I gave you my normal pep talk, which is like, nobody cares. ⁓ yeah. Indie: Yeah. Yeah. We were on the bus on the way in and then we were walking in and we're like, okay, everybody, nobody cares. Just complete the activity. Yeah. Literally, yeah. Jackie: Finish exactly, like two things we gotta do. Yeah, I still I I give that pep talk to people all the time, and myself included. Indie: I still think of I still think of that fact talk before I just complete the activity. Jackie: Yeah. Yeah. Which is actually harder than it sounds sometimes. ⁓ yes. ⁓ so now we're we're gonna head into the second half of of the year, and you know, what do you do? This is something I kind of struggle with so far this year. I've kind of had a bunch of crappy 70.3s. After you've built up all your Iron Man fitness. What are you gonna change or what looks different? Like getting back to 70.3 mode? Like what are what are you thinking of? Indie: See ya. Yeah. I'm just gonna try and just run a bit quicker. Jackie: And bike harder? Indie: I'm gonna bike a bit, I'm gonna, what I'm gonna do Jackie is gonna swim a bit quicker, bike a bit quicker, run a bit quicker. I know, it's rocket science. No, seriously, what I'm gonna do is just, well actually yeah, it's literally just try and do things a bit quicker. Because I've got a really strong base from my slow build, my slow six month build up. Jackie: I'm taking notes. Wow. Yeah. Indie: Ironman Hamburg. And then, so I've got the endurance down. I just need to improve turnover and be a bit more powerful, I think. Jackie: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Are you ⁓ let's kinda I kinda wanna hear about what your day to day looks like. Like you are you swimming with people? Are you just on a solo mission out there? What it what's it like where you are? Indie: ⁓ It's a bit of a mixed bag. I swim on my own three out of four days of the week. And then the fourth session is with a club and it's like, it's wild. You just get in and go, go, go. And it's my favorite swim of the week because it's hectic for an hour. And then you get out and you think, well, like, I'm not going to sleep for hours. Which is great. Notes in the evening. It starts at like 7 p.m. Yeah, I wait all day for it. Jackie: Yeah. It's in the morning. Aw no Yeah. Indie: and then I get there and I'm ready to go. Pumped up, but it's good. And then, I live pretty near Kat Matthews. So every now and then I'll bike with her, depending if we're like on the same kind of schedule. then, yeah, there's a few people around who I'll bike with, but I'd say maybe 80 % of it I'll just do on my own, which I like. Jackie: Mostly on your what bike do you ride the most? Indie: ⁓ My TT bike. No, if I had a choice I'd just ride my road bike all the time and then the week before a race I'd get on my TT bike. But yeah. But through the winter I'll have my TT bike on the turbo so if I've got to do a hard session then it'll always be on my TT and then I'll go out on my road bike. Jackie: This is not a this is not a trick question. I got no skin in the game. Well, same for all of us. Mm. Yeah. That's kind of how I am too. But I have I have tried to be riding my tri bike more, like when I'm going outside just to, I don't know, get used to it and get used to riding the right power on that bike. And there's probably something to it. Indie: Thank See ya. I It just feels, if I've got a like, if I have ⁓ like a proper workout, not just an endurance ride, then I'll go on my time trial bike, but through gritted teeth. It's just not as fun as it. ⁓ yeah, it feels like work. Yeah. Like, yeah. Jackie: I know. It just makes it feel more serious than it wants to feel. I think that's it. Yeah, you're like, all right, I'm on a mission. Like you're not gonna like stop at a coffee shop with your TT bike. It feels stupid. Yeah. So okay, and how about running? Do you run with any people? Are you just taking your dog out or what? Indie: No, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take my dog out, although, um, don't lick your paw. She's got a sore paw at the moment, so she can't run, which is really annoying. She keeps looking at and then hops around. So, um, dog mom. And, um, I'll run with her, but not if I've got a session, because I'll just be worried about her getting in the way. Um, and then my coach Sam will come out and run with me quite a bit, which is good. Jackie: ⁓ nice. And I've been asking all the quick runners, which ⁓ everyone I've had on so far is pretty much quick at everything. So I guess I'm asking everybody, do you go to a track and do actual track workouts? Indie: ⁓ I've tried that in the past, but I don't think it works for me. I think because we run on the road, I just prefer to do hard workouts on the road. We race on the road, so I prefer that. And I spent so much time when I was younger running on a track. Jackie: Like why? Indie: I find it really, I like, I can remember like all the splits I used to do for like 400 and stuff and then I get on there now and it's like so much slower and it's just so demoralizing that I just think it's mentally it's healthier if I just avoid that. Jackie: That's why I didn't like to swim for a long time. I was like, what's the point? I can't even beat like twelve year old me. I still c it's just a little messed up, but I personally love running on track. I love a weekly track workout. I I rarely miss a week. Well, in the winter, we used to have a really good indoor track here and they like tore it down to build some big football thing, but Indie: Thank Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? ⁓ wow. ⁓ yeah. What, a 400 metre indoors? 200. Oh, 300. Jackie: It was two hundred indoors, which is a little rough, but ⁓ man. I mean, no bank. You just run in the outside. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I really like it. I'm not sure. It's just measured. It's con it's just right there. Indie: With banking? No bank. And you do all your workouts on that? ⁓ outside lane, of course. Right there. You start where you finish. Jackie: ⁓ it's just Yeah, your water bottle's right there. Indie: Yeah, yeah, you're never further than 200 metres away. Jackie: You can quit at any time. You're not far away. I don't know. Anyways, I'm pro I'm team track. We'll see. I'm taking ⁓ yeah. I'm just taking a tally who's on my who's who's aligned with me on certain things. Indie: You can quit at any time. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Team Track, Team Pizza. Who else has said track so far? I feel like Holly's a track bell. Jackie: She's definitely a track girl. Yes. And before we chatted, Grace Beck and Hannah Berry had not been on a track in years. And ever since we chatted, they've both been doing weekly track workouts. Indie: Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, Jackie you're an influencer. Jackie: Yeah, well, hey, that's the only people I care about influencing anyways, is yeah. ⁓ anyways, you don't have to run track. You're still good on the road. ⁓ well that's fun. I think, you know, do you find there's certain times that you you want more people training with you? Like for me, when I get closer, like in the thick of Iron Man, it's like the more I desire other people to kind of help me along. Does is that kind of happen for you? Indie: You Mm-hmm. Yeah, ⁓ for sure. Yeah, like when you're like in the thick of Ironman training and you're like tired and you just need to help getting out the door and you know that once you're out the door, you'll be okay. That's when I'll sort of call on somebody else and be like, hey, let's, can we go for a ride or let's, let's run together today. Yeah. Jackie: Yeah. For sure. And your coach lives close enough he can join you here and there. Indie: Yeah, but yeah, he lives in the same house. Jackie: That's interesting. Wow, that's like I mean that's probably why that sounds so intense, but that's probably why it works really well. You know how Indie: I rent a room with him and his wife. It sounds more intense than it is. It's not. We hardly talk to each other. No. Jackie: You just hole up in your room. I feel like that's why married couples work is like, you know, coaching is so much more than just like writing a plan. And I feel like when people are remote, something gets lost in translation because it's so hard to read how someone's actually doing unless you're seeing their face. Indie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie: So he's keeping a close tally on you then. Indie: He keeps a close eye on it, yeah. Which is quite good because he'll just, days he'll tell me just to like grow up and get on with it or he'll say like, let's maybe like chill out a bit today. So that was good. So that was good. Jackie: Are you somebody who like has your plan and you wake up first thing in the morning and you're like out the door going and doing it? Indie: Oh, no, I'm a bit of a slow starter. like, I'll wake up and like have a nice chilled coffee and then slowly, slowly get on with the day, which is the luxury of like training on my own so much then I haven't really got a set schedule that I've got to like crack on with, especially in the summer. I'm a lot more relaxed. Jackie: Yeah, that's nice. I I find it hard sometimes to plan. Like, you know how there's some people that want to plan, like mega plan ahead? Like on next week Wednesday, let's meet for a ride at 10 a.m. I'm like, I I cannot commit to this. This is too much for me. And it's like, but then the next week at 945, I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I'm ready to ride. Let's go. Yes. Indie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I cannot commit to that. I'm the same. I'll you 15. Yeah. Jackie: But then their brain will blow up because that they didn't have it on their their planner or something. So Ugh you know, different strokes for different folks. I think ⁓ for us, for pros, like we need to find the routine and the rhythm that works for us, right? And Indie: Exactly. Yeah, especially if you've been doing it for a long time, you know that if you need to be like militant about it to get it done then that's fine, but also you can still get the same amount of work done at the same intensity if you just take your time about it. Jackie: Yes, it's it's possible. I'm not militant, but I do force myself out of bed really early every morning to go swimming because ⁓ man. It's it's a love hate because I am not capable of swimming by myself in these later later years of my life. I can't like I can, but it is gonna be like two to three K like pull paddles. I'm just gonna Indie: Yeah, you do early swims, ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓ yeah. would get in and do like 4xK pull paddles every swim if I could. I just love pull paddles. like, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ Jackie: You know, put on If I was swimming alone I would do I would do that every s and that's why ⁓ some like if I do that then I'm slow. I get really slow at swimming. So Indie: But strong. Jackie: Strong, yeah, I guess. Yeah. My shoulders will get really big and I'll look like a swimmer but be like in the way back of the pack. Sad. Indie: Strong but strong. Yeah. How do you swim like hard that early though? If you've got like a fast session, how do you swim? I can't like, I'm not like, I can't wake up enough. Jackie: 'Cause you're with a group. It's like your evening swim. That's the joy of it. All. I wake up, I have coffee, I have an English muffin. And the great thing is when you're starting, you don't like fully wake up till halfway. You're just like blacked out, swimming, and then pretty soon, like once you come to, it's like, ⁓ we're half done. Indie: Are you like having a coffee or? on the spot. Yeah, Yeah, so you just get through the warm up. Yeah, that's quite nice. Yeah. I did do quite a few years of swimming like really early. So like I can, I can sort of remember them, but I was young so I didn't need as much like now, now, now I'm like just a slow moving barge and I just need to wake. I need time to wake up. Jackie: Yeah. Well. Well, hey, that's was I was once like you. and and I've since whatever works. I mean if you have a fast group, I it's worth it. It's just worth it for me. I just was getting so slow. You're not slow. Except for this last swim. Just kidding. You're not slow. You would still I I might have been dragging at the back of that pack or I might have been way behind. ⁓ you never know. Indie: Maybe I just need to commit to it. Yeah. Well it wasn't Hamburg yet. You Halfway through, I went riding with Kat the other day and I said to her, halfway through the swim, Kat, was thinking, well, I'm just going to retire after this. Like, I'm not going to be able to qualify for Kona. I'll just tell Kat that I'll swim with her to get her ready for Kona. And then the next thought in my head was, well, God, if I'm swimming like this, she's not even going to want to swim with me. Jackie: She'll be like, What help are you to me now? Indie: Yeah, yeah, she's like, yeah, can stand on poolside if you want. Yeah, but yeah, watch me and pool paddles fly along. Jackie: Put the paddles on. Then you'd be helpful. Yeah, for sure. all right. I want to get a little advice from you for if ⁓ any people are listening to this. ⁓ if an athlete, if someone's listening, a pro, I know a lot of the pros listen, ⁓ or a regular person, believe it or not, we do have men and women listeners. ⁓ men seem to be. Indie: Mm-hmm. No way. ⁓ yeah, do you see the stats? Jackie: I do see some stats. Actually, it's not separated by sex, but I get messages from some men that say they listen despite being a man. So whatever. I'm glad that they're here. Yes. ⁓ if they're listening, they're in a rough patch or they're like struggling with confidence or just kind of like things aren't going to plan. Like, what's something that you've learned like overall, or even just through kind of what you worked through this year that could help them? Indie: Ugh. Well, good for them. Bye. Jackie: Kind of keep going. Indie: ⁓ I'm not sure I'm the best person because even though, well, maybe I just need to take my own advice rather than not being the best person I Yeah, I really struggle with that actually. Maybe what I do is I just try and not dwell, well, that's not true, I do dwell, but I try not to dwell. Jackie: Ha ha. Indie: ⁓ Yeah, I just tried to like move on and like focus on what I'm going to do next. And ⁓ I watched this movie a few years ago on Netflix, it's called Stuts. And it's like this psychiatrist who like just talks about different techniques of like how to get through life basically. And one of the things he talks about is this string of pearls theory where like, if you've got a string of pearls, no one pearl on that string of pearls is more important than the other. and then you can replicate that into life. like your thing of just complete the activity. It's basically just that. Just focus on what you're doing at that time and do that to the best of your ability and then move on to the next thing. Focus on that. Move on to the next thing. And then you get to the end of the day and you've got a whole string of things that you've done well. And then you can look back and be like, ⁓ yeah, I can string together a good like line of things that I've done well and then that all just like multiplies because you do one week and then you do a month and then by the end of the year you've got like loads of things. I'm not sure if that makes sense but yeah exactly. Jackie: thousands of pearl necklaces. It makes it makes a lot of sense. I think the basis of that is focusing on what you can control and doing the best you can. And then by doing that you can build consistency in whatever it is that you're trying to do rather than deciding that something is absolute garbage, like giving up, chucking it all out, ⁓ and then Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and then like chucking it all out. Yeah. Jackie: And then you're starting with nothing rather than building each little ⁓ like good habit or doing your best, whatever it is. ⁓ yeah, yeah, that's good. I mean, consistency, no matter what. I just I just had a bad race. Actually, like a horrendous. Well, according to some people, it still looks fine. But that's the funny thing is like actually I had two really absolute Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh. Jackie: like garbage cans in a row, but the one looks better because I was on the podium, but it was like actually equally as garbage as the the one I just did. So it's really hard for me. Yeah, it's hard because I am usually pretty consistent. And so when you have two like really bad just bad feeling things in a row. Indie: Yeah. ⁓ no. ⁓ no, Jackie! Yeah. Yeah, it's not even like the end result, it's like how you felt like executing it, you know, like you just think, no, like, I know I can feel better than this. Jackie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like my legs ⁓ have both I like they wouldn't even do Iron Man power. They wouldn't. And I'm trying every trick in the book. I'm like Indie: It's wild. Yeah. Jackie: And then like I'm fine the week before. And then magically, you know, I'm fine now this week. I I kind of wish the race was this weekend. I think I would do really good. ⁓ but you know, can't change it. So it's really hard for me when I feel like it is a little out of my control. And then it but I do find myself dwelling on it, even though I know that that's not a good idea. ⁓ But yes, it's important just to say, like, did I do my best? Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Jackie: Mostly. ⁓ and most of the times when things are going bad, maybe you don't maybe not every exact thing is your best. But I think I think overall probably you still you can most times stay like I've still tried to do my best. Indie: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, it is. It's really tricky for me not to like spiral though. If like one thing goes wrong, you just say, this is it now. Like, I'm done. Yeah. Jackie: You can't you're like in your thirties. You can't just like chuck it in not yet. Indie: I think that at the start of the year that's how I felt. Like, ⁓ my gosh, like I was doing so... be like trying to do a run session and I just think like, ⁓ God, I've just got to retire. You're too old for this. Like so many runs. Jackie: yeah, I I think that I Indie: But now I don't feel like that anymore. But it's hard not to just ruminate and think and be unkind to yourself. Jackie: Yes, that's the challenge. I think it's good to just take a step back sometimes and be like, am I and this is one thing like Mark my husband really helps me with when I when he sees me kind of being in a funk or I get back and I'm like I I can't swim. I'm I'm not doing this anymore. He's like, take a step back. Like, do you is this what you want your everyday life to look like? Indie: I know. Jackie: Is this what you want to be doing every day? And I'm like, well, I mean, mostly, yeah, pretty much. Like this is what I enjoy doing still. And even though some days and some races ⁓ have a little frustration, like, would I rather wake up and kind of be go do something else? Not really. Like it's really fun to go on bike rides. Indie: Yeah Yeah Mm-hmm. My, yeah, it is really fun, yeah. And like we get to call it work, so you just gotta have that perspective, haven't you? Jackie: So Yeah, that helps. That helps me. Even when I'm having a crap race, I just like pretend that I'm an age grouper and I'm like, I am a hundred percent winning my age group right now. Like that's what keeps occurring to me now is I'm like, for sure I'm the first place over forty person doing this activity. Like just take a step back. I'm raising like really serious people here. So Indie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah that's the thing isn't it like we're raising people who are also like really really good. Jackie: Yeah, everybody every day is training their brains out. And somebody's just gonna have their great day and everyone else is gonna have like a normal day and some people are gonna have a crap day. So you just gotta somehow try to be with all the other normal day people. Indie: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, she's gonna figure it out. ⁓ Jackie: So gosh. All right. I've got a few questions. ⁓ and then I gotta find my phone and bring up the Instagram questions that we have for you. We got a handful. ⁓ I should have sent them to you before, but it's nothing insane. Don't worry. Indie: ⁓ gosh. Jackie: Let me just pull those up right now. Those will be a good thing to do. okay, here we go. From ⁓ dear. I think I need glasses also, which is really, really sad. ⁓ I ⁓ I am, although my mom, my mom saw me and she saw me like trying to read something. She's like, Do you want me to take you to Walgreens to get some readers? I'm like, no, please don't. ⁓ my gosh. Indie: ⁓ no, no. Push through it, push through it. Just increase the font size. ⁓ no! Not ready for that yet. Jackie: ⁓ okay, ⁓ I zoomed in, that's good. ⁓ Jumasati. Maybe you know this person. Tips on how to be a good amateur without sacrificing life for triathlon. Husband, not a triathlete. Indie: ⁓ Tips on that, would say just maintain perspective always. If it's your hobby, treat it like a hobby. Don't think that you've got to train like a full-time pro because it's our job. And if it's your hobby, then take it like that and enjoy it. If it becomes too serious, then slow down a bit. Jackie: Is this a good question for you? Yeah, if it becomes too serious, then your husband won't like you anymore. Yeah. Probably. All right. ⁓ drummer Shannon One. What job would you do if you weren't a professional triathlete? Indie: Yeah, exactly. Prioritise your husband. ⁓ that's a good question. ⁓ I don't know. ⁓ I would be... I don't think... No, I'd get too anxious about losing other people's dogs. Jackie: Dog walker? Yeah. All right. That one you'll have to think about. Indie: I'd like a little cafe. I'd like to make coffees all day. Jackie: That would be awesome, wouldn't that? ⁓ okay, we got a few more. We'll go quickly. What was the transition like from short course to long course? Racing. Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ was lovely. It was so nice. A transition from short course to long course so that I had more control over where I raced and when I raced and my own schedule. I much prefer long course because it's way less ⁓ intense and the racing is more fun. Jackie: Yeah, and it looked like I just have this still pulled up. You did like four or five years of short course, right? Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really know that 70.3 racing was a thing, I guess. I just thought if you were an elite triathlete, you just did the short course stuff. Because that's all I knew. And then I became better educated. Jackie: Yeah. When we know better, we can do better. This is it. ⁓ looking back on the last three years, what would you have done differently, if anything? Indie: Exactly. ⁓ I would have raced a little bit less and focused on more specific races throughout each year. Jackie: Yeah, I think that's a really solid answer because it's crazy to see like the some I mean Lucy is a good example of that, but we have a lot of examples of people that just really target a few races rather than I mean, I fall in the camp of racing quite a lot. I like to race, but there's certainly some that that you have a proper build and you really feel like, wow, that's how it's supposed to feel. Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it feels so, it feels so nice. Rather than like slogging through our rakes. It's just, ⁓ it's not the nicest feeling. Jackie: It does. No. All right, here we have a good one. ⁓ KTH. What was the hardest and what was the easiest part of Iron Man Hamburg? Indie: The hardest part was the second half of the swim and the easiest part was probably the first 35k of the run. Jackie: Yeah. ⁓ that run is so special with the fans. Like you just fly, right? Indie: ⁓ it's amazing, isn't it? ⁓ you feel so good. Yeah, it was definitely like one of the best run courses, I think. Jackie: Yeah. Yeah, I love that race. All right, two more of these and then we'll kind of wrap it up. how do you not compare yourself to your good friends like Cat Matthews? I struggle with comparison. Indie: ⁓ how do I, I just don't, ⁓ I don't, it's not that I don't care. That's like the wrong word. I just, I'm, I'm like not bothered about what other people are doing because I'm like focused on trying to get the best out of myself. And I know that like, that they're doing what they're doing and it's, I have to do different things. for myself to get better. So it doesn't matter what they're doing. Jackie: Yeah. And cat's kind of a specimen, so it's hard to Indie: and yeah, Pat's a different breed so like if you try if I try to compare myself to her like it's always gonna be a losing battle so yeah. Jackie: Ha ha ha. Right. That's like when I train a little bit with with Paula when she's like getting in shape. I'm like sometimes I'm like beating myself up like but then I to have to take a step back and be like, okay, like some people are really good. Indie: Yeah. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Jackie: Which I think you are really good as well. But I think cat is like especially nowadays seems to be becoming a specimen. ⁓ all right, last question. What does success look like in a race like Kona? That's a good one. Indie: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. ⁓ that is a good question. I think for Kona this year, it's after last year, it's getting to the end, it's getting to the finish, in a good way, which probably means not walking the second half of the marathon. Just getting to the finish a bit quicker than last year. That's what success looks like. Yeah. Jackie: Please Yeah. Yeah. I think kinda like that, but I I bet we have like similar visions of success in Kona, which is just executing a day that that is just like a whole day that you can be proud of. Like no matter what place that gets is it includes not walking because you're executing a day that includes running. I just want to do a day and I don't I don't care what place. Indie: Yeah. Yeah exactly, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And like... Jackie: Right. Like it doesn't matter what place it gets you, it's just a day that you can be proud of. Indie: Yeah. Yeah, that's the same for me. And just like knowing that I got the most out of myself, not in a way of completely going to the well, but by, yeah, like just executing it properly rather than walking. Jackie: Yeah. Won't that feel good? We're just gonna run through this finish line. Indie: I'm just gonna cruise through the finish. Not, not, yeah, just, I'm not even, yeah exactly. And then I can collapse but. Yeah exactly. Jackie: With a smile we did it. Yeah, it whatever. Yeah, it's fine. They'll give you some IVs, you'll be fine. ⁓ all right. The last thing unless you have anything else you want to chat about. Anything? Indie: I don't think so. Jackie: Okay. Sometimes like I'll be on a podcast and I'll have this idea of this thing like I'm really excited to talk about and then we never get to it and then the podcast ends and I didn't even get to but you don't have that. Okay. Okay. ⁓ I wrap up every show with something that you're loving right now. It can be anything that you want. Indie: I mean, No. No. ⁓ yeah. Something I'm loving right now is that I've got quite a few friends with kids who are getting to the age where they're fun. So my best mate's got a four year old and it's got to the stage where she'll FaceTime me for a chat, but it's just William who wants the chat. And then he's just walking around his house, chatting to me about his day. Jackie: Like what age is fun? Indie: and really really love that. So that's something I'm loving at the moment. Jackie: That is super fun. We love that's you know, usually when the parent hands the kid the phone to FaceTime someone, it's when like they need a break from the kid. They're like, Go call, go call whoever. Like Indie: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah. So Sam and Hannah, who I live with here, their little boy Dougie is my godson and he's two and a half now. And he's like at the age where he's like fun as well. So like, I can just be like, hey, Dougie, like, let's go do something. And that gives the parents a bit of time just to not look after a child for a bit, which is quite nice. Jackie: That's awesome. Yeah. ⁓ that's awesome. Wow. How handy. I actually wish you were living in my house. Just kidding. My kids are old enough that they don't they can just hang out. ⁓ okay. Well, thanks so much, ⁓ Indy, for coming on and chatting and sharing your story. And hopefully people are interested in that. I don't know what has happened with the video. So this one will just be audio only. So it's fine. Indie: Thank you. Okay. Jackie: Hopefully that's okay with you because I can't do anything about it. I tried to click some buttons. I'm not a genius, but we'll have great audio. Thanks everyone for listening. Make sure you subscribe and I figured out how to view and respond to Spotify comments so you can do those. Yeah, if you want. Yeah, just figured it out. ⁓ yeah, and we will see you again next week. Indie: Thank you. That's good.