Jackie Hering: Hey everyone and welcome to the Women's Race Podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Herring. Thank you all for being here. I have been doing this now over a month, and I'm so excited that I haven't missed a Friday. People keep coming on this show, and yes, we're doing it. And thank you guys for tuning in and listening. I have no sponsors yet, but I decided I actually don't care because I like chatting to people anyways. And this is a labor of love. For the love of the game for triathlon. So thanks for being here. Today we have a great guest, another Australian. I guess I'm working for the Australian crowd on this pod. ⁓ we have Grace Theck on with me today. She is coming off of T-100 series racing last season and is now shifting more towards Iron Man. I get to spend a lot of time with Grace in Texas, and I want to talk all about that. I kind of want to hear her thoughts on T100 versus stepping up to Iron Man, how she feels about it mentally and physically, I guess. And I also kind of want to do a little dive, which we haven't done on this pod yesterday a little dive into the professional side or the financial side of being a professional triathlete. And I know her and I have chatted about this a little bit and Just kind of some of the realities that we face in this sport as athletes and what we kind of have to think about and work through to build a sustainable career and just have have a functioning lifestyle. So I know we can both chat on our experiences in that if we and however much we want to share, we'll see. ⁓ so hey Grace, ⁓ thanks for coming on and how are ya? Grace Thek: Hey Jackie, thanks for having me. I'm very excited to be on the podcast. Obviously, I've ⁓ a fan from day one. I've listened to well, I think four of the five podcasts so far. I've got one for this afternoon while I head out for a run. But yeah, really enjoying listening to the podcast and ⁓ a different perspective, I guess, from regular Trathlon podcasts with yeah, obviously the more female focus. So yeah, I'm excited to be here. a little I guess daunting to be aligned with all the other broadcast guests who've been, you know, really fantastic and ⁓ I'm not sure how much I can offer, but yeah, I'm excited to have this chat. Jackie Hering: Well, everybody's different and everyone offers a different thing. And I actually re-listened to my last one that was with ⁓ Penny. It was my first recording in the evening, and I decided I can't do that anymore. Cause of course I'm more critical of myself, but I thought I sounded absolutely brain dead. So I've got you here in the middle of the day. I've had enough caffeine. I've eaten double lunch, and we're gonna crush this chat. Should be should be good to go. Grace Thek: Perfect. Jackie Hering: We both had our workouts in at least something today, so so we're ready to chill. ⁓ what's it looked like for you? I know you haven't raced since Texas. ⁓ what did it kind of look like for your recovery from Texas? And then how are you getting back into training now? Grace Thek: Yeah. Yeah, so after Texas, ⁓ given it was only my second IMN, I decided I needed a little bit of a reset. ⁓ I'd been training basically the whole year towards that goal and ⁓ hoping to, you know, qualify for CONAR there, which I did. So I took a week completely off. I didn't do any exercise. I Didn't I don't think I even went for a walk that week. So it was kind of couch potato. ⁓ I know it's very different to ⁓ the way that you approach your recovery because I saw you getting in those walks and ⁓ being active with the kids. But ⁓ for me I just needed a week of just tuning out completely from ⁓ Trath on Life and ⁓ and it yeah, it was awesome. ⁓ and then a week ⁓ after that I kind of just got into aerobic exercise kind of Jackie Hering: I love walking. Yeah. Grace Thek: Did what I felt like doing for the week, so it wasn't really structured. And then ⁓ since then it's kind of been a gradual build with structure ⁓ towards my next race, which will be Happy Valley in a couple of weeks' time. So yeah, I was on the the start line for ⁓ Chattanooga and I was contemplating racing there, but my j body just wasn't ready to ⁓ go to the well again after Texas. Jackie Hering: Well my body wasn't ready to go to the well either and I didn't. And here's a great surprise, you don't have to go to the well in every race. You could just show up and just do a training day sometimes. ⁓ but you know, some people can do that and you're probably more hardcore than me, so Grace Thek: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Well you have a lot more experience when it comes to full Iron Man and I think that ⁓ you know, that helps. I know when I did my first seventy point three, I took like two or three weeks completely off after it and now I can back to back race, you know, within a six day time frame and a long haul commute, but ⁓ yeah, I think I'm still new to the the long course distance and I'm yeah, needing a little bit more recovery than you probably need after a a full distance. Jackie Hering: Yeah, maybe so. You did awesome though, and it was so fun spending the day with you. ⁓ did that. Grace Thek: I think we re I think we did the whole thing together except for the last like two laps of the r the run course. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I know. It was super duper fun. And, you know, did that race like how did you feel about your result? How did it give you confidence? I know I wore this shirt in honor of us both getting our ⁓ Kona spots. I know that was like the number one goal. And we had that nice little chat before the race, like, okay, hey, we're gonna get this done. And I was, I mean, I've as you said, I've done Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: A lot of Iron Man. So and I can tell when I'm in the right shape to like do a fine Iron Man and I was almost sure that it was gonna be fine. So I felt pretty confident in that in that chat before the race, like if we just do a decent day, we're gonna get this done. So I feel like that that made it nice, like a good team activity for the race. But yeah, did it did it give you confidence? Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, obviously ⁓ having only done one other full distance at Challenge Roth last year, it was still a little bit of unknown because the Challengeroth race went surprisingly really well for me. I don't feel like anything went too astray from the plan. And so, you know, what I've heard from many other athletes is that Iron Man days can, you know, be anything. It can ⁓ yeah, a lot can happen within those, you know, eight to nine hours. So I yeah I wasn't expecting too much for myself in that I just wanted to give my best performance. I felt like my training leading up to it was very good and ⁓ on race day it really just came down to how I would tolerate the heat, ⁓ which luckily for us it wasn't too bad on the day. I think the humidity kind of crept in in the later parts of the day and I think that's ⁓ was a bit of a struggle for me. But overall I was, yeah, pretty happy with my performance. I swam kind of where I wanted to swim. I biked ⁓ reasonably well for me. ⁓ yeah, I felt pretty strong. I was very happy to have you there. I think mentally ⁓ more than anything, just to be able to ride with someone. And I had that same ⁓ kind of support, I guess, in Challenge Roth where I had three other athletes I was ⁓ riding with. And I think mentally that really, really helps get you through the 180K. And I think if I was just Jackie Hering: Yeah. Grace Thek: riding by myself mentally it would be quite difficult. So ⁓ I think we from my perspective, I think we helped each other along. ⁓ particularly maybe ⁓ myself pushing it the first maybe 40K, but then the last 40K, I really needed your help. And I think ⁓ just having you to track ⁓ on the home stretch of that bike course was really important for me. And then obviously, yeah, it was a fun run to run with you for the first lap. Obviously I faded pretty hard in the back half of the run, but ⁓ yeah, obviously I was a little bit disappointed with how my run went compared to what I thought I was capable of. But all in all, ⁓ I'll take that. You know, it was really just one step in front of the other to get that kind of slot and I did that. So now ⁓ hopefully I can string together a little bit more of a complete racing corner. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I mean you did awesome. You still went an eight forty. You got fifth. Like that's nothing to sta shake a stick at. You did really good. And I didn't I didn't look at what you ran in Roth. ⁓ I could look, but Grace Thek: Yeah, I'll take it. Around a two fifty three, I believe. Jackie Hering: So it was a little bit slower. Who knows? Grace Thek: Yeah, I think it was about ten minutes fast ⁓ s faster in Roth, but I think the conditions and ⁓ perhaps maybe just being in the T T position for so long during the Texas race maybe took a little bit out of me for the run. So ⁓ yeah, I think you know, it's hard to compare courses. I think they're all so different and conditions and the dynamics with the race that ⁓ it's hard to compare, but obviously ⁓ hoping for slightly faster time ⁓ on my next Iron Man, I think. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah. In Kona. It's hard to run fast in Kona. I mean, I I would like to run fast there too, but mostly I just wanna like do a decent job. I'm I'm holding no expectations because I mistakenly had really high hopes for Kona last year and I think that was the beginning of my demise is like, you know the races, like how it sounds like we went into Texas similar. Like we know we've done the work, we're in pretty good shape. Grace Thek: Hi. Okay. Jackie Hering: Like no huge expectations. It's like, I just want to execute this day. And I think something happens heading into Kona where you've it's the same setup. You've done the work. You want to have a good day. But then it's like also, I want to get top 10. I want to do this. I want to run a two whatever marathon. And for me, that made me blow the doors off and completely mess, mess it up. So it was a great Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I totally understand that. I feel like when I'm in a happy place, I'm healthy and I don't put expectations on myself there the days I tend to do my best. But as soon as I start to have in the back of my mind these things creep in, like, you know, I want to get top ten or things that are kinda outside of your control, I think that's when things start to un unravel for me a little bit and that pressure gets to me. So ⁓ yeah, definitely having more of a relaxed mindset definitely helps. So hopefully we can both channel that for a Kona. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's the goal. I just need to chill, chill this year and just let it happen and not stress because same, you know, if you just do the day and don't try to be a hero, that's the way to be a successful Iron Man. And I learned that from Hannah Barry because she's the most like she just does her day and magically it just works out because she's not doing anything. I mean, it is kinda epic 'cause she swims so fast, so she's way the heck up there, but it's it's just like a good lesson in consistency and, you know, managing your own personal day for whatever that's gonna be. ⁓ yeah. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Yeah. For sure. And I think, ⁓ you know, obviously looking at the pro series, that definitely favors those who are consistent, like people like yourself and Hannah who and obviously Kat, but people who just consistently do their thing and are able to string together multiple races consistently. So I think ⁓ yeah, that's something that, you know, obviously I'm searching for in the long distance world, but I think ⁓ it's takes probably a lot of practice and ⁓ 'cause what What number corner is this for you this year? Jackie Hering: ⁓ well I d I maybe like my fifth, but I'd say last year last year was my first one of like this phase where I'm actually like good and training and operating like a pro. The other Kona's were like two thousand you're gonna die when you hear these years, but ⁓ two thousand nine, ten, ⁓ twelve, fourteen. Grace Thek: ⁓ wow, so it was a long time between your Kona appearances. I I I've for some reason thought that you'd just been there almost every year for I guess since then. Jackie Hering: No, I took I took nine years off of Ironman like the Ironman distance racing. I did one in like it was like twenty fifteen and then I didn't do another one till twenty twenty four. So I was Grace Thek: ⁓ wow. Okay. Did you use the experience that you had previously in those earlier years in your race last year, or you felt like it had changed so much in terms of equipment dynamics conditions that it was just a completely new experience? Jackie Hering: I think it was a completely new experience and I think that's why I stuffed it up so badly. It's like back back then, I mean, I was in my twenties. I wasn't very good. And I wasn't I mean, I was good enough to be at Kona. I was fine, but I wasn't like in a place where I felt like I was competing really. I was I was just like not training very much and I was just kind of off of like natural whatever it is. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: but now I think you know I'm in better shape. I understand a lot more about my body and how to race better. But yes, I guess I needed to have a really rough experience to realize, like, okay, Kona's like its own beast and it needs to be dealt with more carefully ⁓ than maybe some other Ironmans. So it was it was a lot of mistakes, but I I did learn a lot. And Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Do you have any any tips for me other than just relax before the race and not build up the the pressure too much? Jackie Hering: Well, I think my main tip, my problem was I felt I was I felt too good. So then I decided, here's my chance. I'm gonna rate I went s really hard on the bike, is really what happened. Way too hard in the first bit because I just felt too good and I didn't want to get stuck in the I was scared of getting a penalty and I didn't want to get stuck in the scruff of like all the women because we had such a huge group coming out of the water together. It was like everybody. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: And of course, like right away, like Solving and Cap broke away. ⁓ but then it was like a lot of girls all together. And I was nervous to I didn't want to get stuck in the scruff, so I just rode hard, literally like almost like better than my 70.3 watts for way too long. Cause and I just felt amazing. I was like, this is gonna be my day. I'm crushing this day. But then, ⁓ it bit me so hard. ⁓ Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. But it came back to bite you. Jackie Hering: I was in a bad, bad place. Like everybody coming past me on the way back, because I was like riding like like I had been drinking pretty much. And everyone's like, Are you okay? Like I'm like, ⁓ this is bad. If people are going by and asking if you're okay, that's like not a good sign. So yeah, I would say Grace Thek: ⁓ So redemption for this year. Jackie Hering: I just wanna do it correctly how I know I can, like control myself and take in my nutrition and just not try to be a hero. Like I'm freaking forty one years old. I don't need to go drop all these girls. What am I trying to prove? I just need to like take a step back, sit in the pack if that's where I gotta be. Like I don't need to you don't need to win it in the first half of the bike ride. Like Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: It's one on the run. That is where where it happens. So you just have to be smart and then execute a run, which I thought I was gonna do, but I was too messed up. So you know. Grace Thek: Yeah. Yeah, it definitely seems like a a tricky race to to master and ⁓ yeah, probably doesn't help when you go blazing in the first half of the bike. So ⁓ probably won't put that as my ⁓ plan for for this year. So let's both have successful races and ⁓ pace ourselves. Jackie Hering: It's a bad idea. Th don't do it. ⁓ my goodness. so crazy. Yeah. ⁓ so comparing Roth to Texas, I know you don't like to compare courses, but like mentally or like feelings-wise, was it similar or did you learn a lot in Roth that you were able to bring into Texas? Like what was what did you get just from doing those first two? Grace Thek: Yeah, so obviously I went into Challenge Roth having never completed a full and so that was a whole new experience. I was going into the unknown. I wasn't sure what to expect. And I was honestly just happy to make it to the start line because I wasn't sure with like my injury history that I would even be able to train enough to tow a start line. ⁓ so I was like in a place of I guess just like happy that I was there and excited for the day ahead. ⁓ I don't remember standing on the start line with nerves. It was more just excitement for the day ahead. And obviously experiencing the Challenge Roth course, which is unbelievable. Like the atmosphere on the side of the road, going up Solarberg, it's unlike anything I've ever experienced before. And I'm not sure that I'm gonna have a triathon that compares to that in terms of the atmosphere. And so I think that really helped ⁓ give me that kind of extra gear ⁓ in in Challenge Roth. But in terms of ⁓ feelings. You know, this the swim was pretty ⁓ similar feeling towards ⁓ pretty similar to Texas. I was ri swimming by myself though in Roth, ⁓ kind of in no man's land, so it was a little bit lonely and it felt like a longer swim than three point eight kilometers. But ⁓ overall, you know, I was just kind of holding back a little bit 'cause I knew that it was a long day ahead. ⁓ and similar to Texas Challenge Roth, I was able to ride with a group of women, so it made it mentally go by a lot faster. and then on the run, I think that's where it differs the most. ⁓ challenge Roth. I actually felt my best in the last probably seven to eight K of the run. And that was a huge contrast to Texas where I I was literally just one foot in front of the other trying to make it to the finish. And so I think I got really lucky with my first Iron Man, it being such a great experience from an atmosphere point of view, but also a performance point of view. And the fact that I hadn't done one before, it was like a huge accomplishment f to even make it to the finishing line. And then obviously to get second in that race was amazing. And ⁓ yeah, it's like probably an experience I'll never forget. Texas on the other hand, obviously my key goal going into the race was to try and get a Kona slot. But obviously that relies on other people. And so I guess process wise, as we mentioned, like I my aim was just to go and do what I knew I was capable doing from my training stats and hope that that was enough on the day with the other ladies to to get the Kona slot. So ⁓ I think yeah the feelings were pretty similar swim and bike in terms of performance, but yeah obviously the run was ⁓ better in in in Roth. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I mean, no Iron Man's ever gonna feel the same. And sometimes it's shocking what you feel at different times during Iron Man, and it doesn't even make sense. But it's both ⁓ overall have been positive, it seems, which is which is great. And you know, you mentioned about the pro series earlier and you did G Long, you did Oceanside, you did Texas. Have you decided? Are you fully doing the pro series? Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: Or are you still like you're gonna do happy valley and then what? You're still on the fence! Grace Thek: Look, I'm on the fence. I'm on the fence. I know I had a a strict cutoff, like I think Chattanooga race weekend, I like, Okay, that weekend I'll decide which way I'm going. But ⁓ for me it seems a little bit overwhelming to do three IMANs in one year. I think if the pro series was two Iron Man's and three seventy point threes, I think you'd get a lot more people pursuing it because obviously you have to qualify for Cona anyway, so if you wanna go to Coney you've gotta do two Ironman's. But that third one, I've been wrestl Yeah, I've been wrestling with the idea and obviously the mo the one that makes the most sense would be Lake Placid, ⁓ which is I think it's only like eight weeks away now. So it's ⁓ coming up pretty quickly and ⁓ my training since getting back on the schedule post Texas has been very up and down. ⁓ and ⁓ Jackie Hering: ⁓ it's a bugger. That that is the bad one. Yeah. Grace Thek: I think with that comes the the thought process of doing another one. You know, some days I I think, yes, I can do another Iron Man, and then other days I just think, I'm not sure if I can go that deep again and then come back for Kona ⁓ just, you know, 12 weeks later. So yeah, it's something that I've definitely been playing with. And and this year the c key goal was qualifying for Kona. And now that I've done that, I'm looking at other options like, well, maybe I should do the Pro Series. ⁓ almost there to ⁓ do one more Iron Man and then Kona, but I don't know. It's a tough tough decision. I I'm not sure how you make it. I guess you've done so many full distances now that three in a year might not seem too overwhelming or maybe it does. Jackie Hering: Think too hard about it, actually. I just decide that I'm gonna do it at the beginning of the year and then I'm just committed to it. But yeah, may it may be that I've done I don't know, 30 Ironmans or something that it's it doesn't and I I don't know. I don't train huge volume. So it's not that I'm like banked a ton of volume. I just think that I know my body's pretty durable and pretty resilient, so maybe that's a piece of it too, is like I just know I can keep training and go race. I like to race a lot. ⁓ I don't know what to tell ya. I can't advise you on this. You're beating me in the pro series so far, so I guess I'd say don't do it, but you gotta I know it is it is early days and Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, it's ⁓ early early days in the pro series. It's ⁓ yeah, putting a lot of eggs in the one basket, I think, with the pro series, because, you know, at this stage it's still two full Ironmans that I have to do reasonably well in to score to then count towards that pro series versus the other option would be to pursue some more seventy point three races within America and you know, some would be pro series but others would just be regular Ironman races. So maybe the opportunity to ⁓ you know, pursue a a podium or or something like that for sponsors because obviously ⁓ you know you've got to think about all of the options but ⁓ yeah, it's a tricky one and I'm hoping to make the decision and then ⁓ probably after Happy Valley. Jackie Hering: Literally you g have to decide this week you gotta start trading for your other Iron Man. Grace Thek: Yeah. I think the the training's slowly ramping up that I can kind of go with either options, but ⁓ yeah. I do, yes. ⁓ Chris Hanrahan, so he was out on course, the ⁓ the guy ch cheering us on, giving us time splits. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Do you have a coach? ⁓ yeah. He was cheering for me. Well he was cheering for you, actually, but I pretended like it was for me. Grace Thek: No, yeah. I he was he was he's a big fan of Jackie, so ⁓ yeah, it it was fun ⁓ to to have you there. And I think you said at one point he's my coach now. Jackie Hering: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, well, I don't have a coach. So any coach that's cheering or giving splits, I just I will adopt that coach. He was my coach on the ground. It felt nice. It just feels good to have someone that's like paying attention. ⁓ because I was there by myself. So I didn't even have like my husband or nobody there. So it was good to jump on the gray team Grace for that day. Grace Thek: Embrace, yeah. Yes. Jackie Hering: Well, we're kind of getting into a little bit of race pickings, but I'm interested. So you raced as part of the T one hundred series last year. And last year they did the contracts. And I know that that was probably a big selling point because, you know, the contracts were guaranteed probably what, like 40 grand or something. Whatever it was, you can tell us or not, but it was guaranteed amount of money and then plus whatever prize money. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: They've since moved away from the contracts, but I'm interested if like how you think that went, if you think that was helpful in building your career, or was it just like getting different race experience, make a little money and and see what what happens from that? Like how did you come out of that? Grace Thek: Yeah, so obviously I was ⁓ very excited about the opportunity of having a T one hundred contract. I'd actually sat down with my coach the day before I got the email and we'd already figured out my plan was to go pro series that year. And then the contract arrived the next day and actually for a few days I was still set on the pro series. I was like, I've committed to this. I feel like in my head this is what I want to do. And after a few days of reflecting, I decided to ⁓ sign the contract with the T one hundred and obviously ⁓ there was a financial benefit of doing that having ⁓ guaranteed contra like salary that I hadn't necessarily had previously apart from some sponsorships ⁓ helping me out ⁓ every year. So yeah I I pursue the T one hundred financially but also I really like racing the best in the sport and I haven't shied away from ⁓ racing the best and so I thought it would be a great opportunity to spend the year, see how I go over the T one hundred distance and ⁓ obviously have that financial support that I I hadn't previously had in the years prior. So ⁓ obviously it was a bit of a combination of reasons, but ⁓ th those were the two main reasons. Jackie Hering: Yeah, and I mean you cracked the top ten a couple times, ⁓ and you did a lot of them. Like you were probably one of the people who did the most of them, probably more than others, didn't you? Grace Thek: Yeah, I think the contract required four plus the grand final and I think I did five plus the grand final. So I think I did all races except for London and Spain, ⁓ which were the two that I missed last year. So ⁓ yeah, I committed fully to the series and ⁓ yeah, and I actually really enjoyed racing all around the world. I went to places I might not have gone to to race, like Qatar, and Jackie Hering: Okay. Grace Thek: I r yeah, I really enjoyed the racing and just the community with the T one hundred, they really look after you. They makes you feel kind of like you're a professional. I I know that Holly Lawrence touched on it in her interview with you, but yeah, they just support you fully with accommodation, mechanics, physios, massage, that kind of thing. And so you feel like you're all there in one environment. You have breakfast with your competitors, you get to learn a bit more about people rather than just a you know, a different race where you just show up on the start line and you see people for the first time that week. Jackie Hering: I mean I love the experience. I don't love getting my butt kicked and racing for thirteenth place or whatever. Like that that hurts me deep inside my soul. And that's why I can't do it. I'm not strong enough. Grace Thek: Mm. Yeah. That was one thing I struggled with. It was kind of felt like at times I was just making up numbers and it felt quite disheartening to get my butt kicked so many times. But at the same time it gave me an opportunity to see what I needed to do to be better. And I think seeing that instills, I guess, like some motivation as well in you to to go out and train so that you're not getting smoked as much. ⁓ but Jackie Hering: Ha ha. Grace Thek: You know, these women are fast and it's ⁓ I think the thing with the T one hundred ra racing that I didn't particularly like were the courses and the lapped courses on the bike. ⁓ for me that wasn't something that I loved. ⁓ you know, I really like the Iron Man races where it's one or two laps of course because ⁓ yeah, the repetitive U turns. ⁓ and also 'cause there's so many laps Jackie Hering: They're so fast. Yeah. Grace Thek: just watching like Taylor Nib like breathing down my neck, hoping that I don't get lapped. ⁓ which is actually a possibility. Jackie Hering: That is stressful. I've been in that position. ⁓ my gosh. It's so stressful. I there was one when it was still PTO, the race in Milwaukee. I was having like a particularly terrible bike ride. Like I had no legs. I think I was sick and getting my period. Like everything gone wrong. Something was wrong in my bike. She was like so close to lapping me. And I think that was a race where they still had the rule where if you get lapped, you're like done. And I was like, Grace Thek: Yeah. Jackie Hering: I was like, all right, it was a second to last lap and she was about to finish up. Like I have to go so hard, hard as I can on this lap, so she doesn't get me. Grace Thek: It's funny 'cause I was in that exact position at Dallas. I had probably the worst race of my entire career at the PTO Dallas race and I could see and I was doing the math in my head, like, ⁓ goodness, I've really gotta push this last lap because if I don't, she's gonna lap me out. And I guess I had like PTSD because ⁓ when I was fifteen I I kind of did one season of Trathlon and it was ⁓ there was this one race and ⁓ I th Jackie Hering: Ooh. Grace Thek: I don't think it was a World Cup, but it was a a local like Conti Cup, I think. And I got lapped out in this race and I was like so upset at the time because I didn't I was so new to the sport. I just sat on the curb and like cried. And then I think I just went for a run because I just had to like ⁓ yeah, exactly. ⁓ but luckily it didn't come to that and I haven't been lapped by Taylor. Jackie Hering: Work through it. Yeah. Thank God. Grace Thek: But yeah, now they've removed that rule, which I think is good because with so many laps, it is a possibility to be lapped out. Jackie Hering: Yeah. Yeah, it surely surely is. Yeah. Did you feel did you feel like you improved throughout the year of T one hundred? Like were you swimming c with the girls? Were you I d I don't remember if you were coming out with them or what? Grace Thek: I was a bit hit and miss in terms of the races. ⁓ I my main focus for the first half of the year was challenge Roth. And so the racing the training was tailored towards the full distance. ⁓ but I actually had some decent results. ⁓ Singapore was my best result in the T one hundred and I think it was probably a factor that we'd just come out of summer in Australia and so we were a little bit more heat a ad adapted than the Europeans coming over 'cause it was ⁓ Jackie Hering: It's so hot there. Yeah. Grace Thek: I think it was late March, early April, and yeah, it was hot and humid. and I think the races that I tended to do well out were on the swim in particular with the non wet suit swims. ⁓ those tend to be my strength. So yeah, the Singapore race and the last race in Qatar, I had s stronger swims, but yeah, the most complete race was probably Singapore coming off a good off season of training. I think by the end of the year in December in Qatar I was just Pretty cooked from the year of racing and ready for a break. And I think that was the sentiment among most of the pros at the race. Jackie Hering: Everybody. Everyone I talked to was on absolute fumes. Like either no energy or like partially injured, just like mentally burnt out. It's just so hard. And I'm glad that they've adjusted it to less races counting because with with the different places you have to travel in that series, adding that all up throughout the year, even though you're going to cool places and you're well taken care of, it I think it just gets to be a little much. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: On the system. Grace Thek: Yeah, I think people underestimate the fatigue of travel throughout the year and how much that can impact on your training, performance, and just like mental ⁓ status. I think, you know, yeah, especially when it's all around the world from like Singapore to America to the Middle East to Europe. So ⁓ but yeah, I was very happy to have done the T one hundred race races last year. I think that ⁓ it was a good learning curve for me, but also it kind of with the challenge Roth made me think that this year I wanted something different and ⁓ I think I was re energized with the idea of pursuing the full distance racing. ⁓ maybe 'cause I thought I could be a little bit more competitive and not just making up numbers, but ⁓ just I think something new to work towards, a new goal, a new stimulus. ⁓ and I think, yeah, that's really energized me this year and I'm a lot more ⁓ maybe not Yeah, probably happier going into the races because it's you know, races that I pick r rather than the T one hundred series where it's races you kinda have to do. Jackie Hering: I think that's that's it. Like you nailed it right there. It's the freedom of choice and control. And if like what you did with Chattanooga, you're not feeling it, you just don't go. Like you you get to have have control of your season. And I think that that's the best part about long course racing. Honestly, that is that is nice. And I like that, you know, T100 switched it back to no contract, bigger prize money. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: You can just drop in if you're ranked well enough, which we both are. We could just drop into any two one hundred if it fit into our schedule. But with all this Iron Man racing, we ain't got time for that. ⁓ and at the Grace Thek: Yeah. Yeah, I I don't know how Kat Matthews did the T one hundred pro series double. That was incredible. ⁓ I'm not sure that too many people will pursue the double, but that was super impressive. Jackie Hering: Remember that? Yeah. Yeah, that was early days of of both of those. So I think she just went for it. But I think she's getting a little more deliberate in her race picking now. She's got you know targets on winning the big races, which you can't just go dabble everywhere if you're trying to like really win things. So yeah, I mean there's a lot of choices now. We got a lot of things. If I could run my perfect world and dream thing. Grace Thek: Yeah, exactly. Jackie Hering: I would like to help Iron Man treat their pros the way that T100 treats the pros because it really is an experience that makes you feel like a pro. In Iron Man, you're schlupping through the expo. You got to show your QR code to four people to get checked in. ⁓ it just feels like it just feels so not pro at all. They have nothing special for us. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: maybe a port-a-potty. Chattanooga, they didn't even have a porta potty down by the start. Like in the non-pro series, like the lower tier races, like you're just a smidgeum ahead of the age, like one tiny thing better than the age groupers, which is your separate transition. And that's literally it. And that's a cool part about the sport that we're all mixed in. But also if they want to professionalize it more and like they are with the pro series, I feel like there's like a few more steps. Even just getting us a mechanic down there would be pretty cool. ⁓ you know Grace Thek: Yeah, I certainly agree. I think it's easier with the T one hundred because of the numbers. It's you know, if you're only looking at twenty ⁓ men, twenty women and and now that they've split it it's just twenty athletes, ⁓ at each race versus Iron Man is obviously a lot harder because it's a little bit more inclusive in terms of the numbers of athletes that they can have on the start list. But ⁓ I do understand that, you know, there is ⁓ room for improvement when it comes to Iron Man and I guess professionalizing the ⁓ the sport a little bit more. As you said, it it it probably isn't too hard to have some porta potties and the right mechanics and the right equipment on the on the mechanic motors and just little things that I don't think would cost too much but would mean a lot to professional athletes. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I think so. And you know, I love Iron Man. I do a million Iron Man races. So I think I think that they have the loyalty of a lot of the pros and and we just wanna keep racing, but we wanna be like supported in these endeavors. I wanna transition a little bit just talking about kind of the financial reality. I guess, of pro triathlon. what do you think people misunderstand about what being a pro triathlete is? Grace Thek: Yeah, I think there's ⁓ there's like kind of two things. One, I tell someone I'm a professional triathlete and they say, ⁓ that's cool. Like, how do you make money? And then there's the other who are maybe people within the sport and they think that maybe you earn a lot more than you actually do. So ⁓ you kind of have the two str streams of thought where it's like how could you possibly make money from that and then other people who maybe think you make more than you actually do. ⁓ and it's a hard sport. Jackie Hering: Ha ha ha. Grace Thek: It's an expensive sport, there's a lot of gear, ⁓ and having, I guess, some resources and equipment, you know, can help tremendously in your performance. So ⁓ it is certainly a tricky one and it's one that ⁓ you know, probably is a barrier to entry for a lot of people. You know, even just basic bikes and shoes, you know, it adds up. So ⁓ yeah, it's definitely yeah, a tough sport to crack into. And then I think once you're in it, ⁓ it doesn't necessarily get easier the longer you've been in it. So I guess this is my ninth year racing professionally and ⁓ I still would say that I make most of my money from prize money, like a large substantial amount from prize money every year. Obviously last year was a little bit of an exception with the T one hundred contract and having some stability in regards to the financial ⁓ component, but ⁓ Yeah, it is a tricky one and ⁓ I don't really know exactly how to get better. Obviously social media is ⁓ has risen over the years and particularly important at the moment in this social media climate. ⁓ and it's just trying to figure out what sponsors v value and ⁓ and then putting yourself in a p position to ask and and for me I'm someone who tends to wait for sponsors to approach me rather than go out and actively approach sponsors and I guess I I don't like asking Jackie Hering: That's a tough way to do no ⁓ you gotta go ⁓ win world champs and then they'll come for ya. Grace Thek: Yeah, so ⁓ I don't know, how how have you found the changes, I guess, since when you first started getting into Trialflower now in terms of expectations for social media? 'Cause I know for me a lot of contracts have social media ⁓ clauses attached to it, which is understandable, but also it's hard because social media and content creation is not necessarily, you know, it's not our job, but it is a requirement. So it does ⁓ Jackie Hering: Like we're not yeah. Grace Thek: I think takes a bit of mental strain to like, you know, make sure you're getting the content during the sessions when you're, you know, at work and then putting it all together ⁓ for social. So ⁓ yeah, for you has it been mainly like d breakdown of sponsorship versus ⁓ prize money and how has that changed over the years? Has it gone more to sponsorship now that you're you know Jackie Hering: Exactly. Yeah. Grace Thek: improving ⁓ more and more every year or has it kind of Jackie Hering: I don't think I'm improving anymore, Grace. Let's be clear. I'm just, I'm just on I'm doing fine. ⁓ it has changed quite a lot. So social media, I think, I don't even know what your Instagram was invented, but I don't think it was invented ⁓ back when I started, which was amazing. Yeah, okay. I started Racing Pro in 2011. And it was amazing. Grace Thek: Well, I think you're I think you're doing great. I think it was like twenty twelve from memory. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: Because it was so old school. You literally exercise, you race, you make money, and the sponsors actually just care about your results. And back then they cared, and still probably now they cared a lot about just like community involvement. So it was very easy to, you know, I would put on a lot of like local clinics, and all you do is just send them pictures of you putting on these local clinics and stuff that was much more like. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: in person, like locally based, community focused. Where now that we're in the world of social media, it's like you have to like present it all to the whole world. which Grace Thek: Community community focused. Yeah. I find at times it's a bit like performative because what you're posting doesn't necessarily like I try to be authentic with my posts but I think it's easy to have a facade at some point, you know, where maybe reality is slightly different to what is being presented on social media. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I mean I personally try to be the regular me on on social media. ⁓ and for me, the way that well, I I I have like two separate lives with triathlon. I have like the pre-kid life where I was on Team Timex, which was amazing. And they supported me as an age grouper and then moving into pro, ⁓ up until I had kids. And then they dropped me. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: And so then it was kind of actually great because then I didn't have any expectations or timeline or anybody that I felt like I had to get back in shape for. It was truly just my own decision that I wanted to continue with triathlon. And I had obviously the support of my husband to say, like, yeah, if if you want to do this and you, you know, you want to pursue it, like go do it. And I was like, I don't have any sponsors. He's like, Well, if you get good, you'll get sponsors. Grace Thek: Mm. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: And that's that's what happened. I just got back in shape and then just reached out to pretty much the brands that used to sponsor me. Like I've been with Rudy Project, Blue 70, like some of these since like 2009. so for me it's been just kind of like an organic relationships over time type of situation. And then some ⁓ have reached out to me for various reasons, like. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: ⁓ I got Garmin because the sponsorship guy's wife is a fan of me. She thought I was cool. And she's like, You if you're signing any US person, you have to sign Jackie. I'm like, all right, that's great. The guy's wife likes right? Yeah. but I'm really clear with my sponsors, like as best as I can to say like my main focus, ⁓ like I gotta train. Grace Thek: That's cool. Love that. Women supporting women, I love that. Jackie Hering: And I have to get the training done to race well. And if I focus on being a content creator, like my racing is gonna suffer. And it's not my goal to become an expert content creator. it's my goal to see how good I can be at triathlon. So if somebody is gonna fire me for not creating amazing or perfect or enough content, then then they're not supporting me the way I wanna be supported. So, you know, like that's how it has to be for us. We can't we're not like a twenty-five year old influencer who's just creating reels and doing like a 10 hour Ironman. Grace Thek: Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, I th I'm I've been fortunate that I've had sponsors who are able to really support me and ⁓ give me the freedom, I guess, to you know, post what I would like on social media and they have trust in me that I'm going to represent the brand in a way that ⁓ is authentic and ⁓ you know, good for their brand. And so I think anything that has too many social media clauses that ⁓ maybe are red flags. ⁓ but Yeah, I guess it is part of the sport, so some element of it is needed. And I think part for me, ⁓ I started doing weekly stats and thoughts and it's something I started almost like two and a half years ago, I think, is how long I've been doing it for. And initially it was my return to training after an injury. I had a back injury and I was out and I kind of documented what my training looked like as I ⁓ got back into regular training again. And it's something that I continue to do because I actually felt that it was reflective for me at the end of the week to reflect on the week of training, reflect on other things that happened in the training. And in a way, I guess it was selfish because it was like my own not therapy, but it was a way to see the good in the week and areas that I could improve on going into the next week. ⁓ but it also kept me accountable to posting at least once a week for my sponsors and keeping people in the loop as to ⁓ what I've been up to. So I think for me that's been ⁓ something that's like a non negotiable each week. some days or some weeks it ends up being posted a little later in the week than the Monday ⁓ for the previous week. But yeah, it that's that's something that I found at least ⁓ yeah, realistic that I can complete each year each week. Jackie Hering: Yeah, that's really it. Like each person is gonna be different with how much they wanna post, how much they can handle. But I think that's that's a nice way to do it. And and also for yourself, but for other people. ⁓ because training as a pro can actually be quite ⁓ monotonous and a little bit boring because you're doing nearly the same things with maybe a little bit of build and a little bit of change. Week on week for actually years is what's going on here. And it can it can be easy to lose track of a week or two and be like, ⁓ gosh, I'm just training, training, training, especially when you're Iron Man training and you get tired and you don't have a lot of creative energy to to put into social media, ⁓ to forget about a week. So I love that like weekly thing. If I was a very ⁓ Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: organized or scheduled person, that could be something I could do too. But ⁓ what gets me posting actually is just I spend so much time on my trainer over winter. And then also during throughout the year I still do like one or two rides a week on the trainer just when I when it's crap weather or whatever. But pretty much all of my posting, anything that I'm posting happens when I'm on the trainer. That's my time to just like knock it all out. So Grace Thek: Yeah, I love that. ⁓ that's a efficient use of ⁓ social media, I think. Just doing it while you're writing. Jackie Hering: Yeah, it's like exactly. I'm like doing the interval, thinking about something, something I'm gonna share, and then I get to the rest. I'm like, all right, type, type, type, type. Here we go. ⁓ yeah, because it doesn't have to be rocket science. Sometimes you just gotta like find a picture, find a little video, put some words on it. Grace Thek: Yeah. Yeah, and I love the way that you authentically post I particularly like the what's up chefs that you were doing a few years ago I think, but I feel like yeah. But I haven't se I haven't seen so much recently, but ⁓ you should bring that back. Jackie Hering: ⁓ you're a chef, yeah. ⁓ there is like I I don't know how to call it, but I have like a tiny cult following of the chef because every now and then I get a random message. Like it'll just say chef with a question mark. Like people are wondering what happened to Chef. My sister actually invented chef. She used to have years ago, she when in early Instagram, she used to have like this alter ego that she would put like a filter on that gave her like a chef hat. Grace Thek: Chef Jackie, what's up? ⁓ yeah. Jackie Hering: And she would like do these recipes with this voice. And I think that's that's how I started saying that, but she was much better at it, ⁓ I think than I am. But I can bring back chef for you and for the other loyal chef fans, of course. Yeah. ⁓ do you think, you know, what you said about the finances with outside like people not in triathlon? I get the same exact response. They're like, Grace Thek: That's awesome. Awesome. Jackie Hering: How they can't even imagine how you make money doing triath on who's paying you. They don't know that there's prize money at races. They don't know that sponsors, you know, will actually pay you. And I I try to say, like, you know, runners have sponsors. Like, I think people are used to team sports and people make a salary. ⁓ but not as used to, well, of course, this is a pretty niche sport still, but not as used to maybe. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: the individual sport and and in triathlon, you know, unless you're like a superstar, we're kind of piecing together, like however many sponsors we have that are paying us, you know, anywhere from like two to like twenty thousand dollars, just piecing these together to try to create a salary for ourselves. Like it really isn't for for most of us, we're like, I don't know, middle Middle tier, I don't know what we're called, but yeah, it's not we're not making tons of money. I still rely on on prize money and I love prize money and I love that's why I love the Pro Series. It's a nice bonus if you can string together like a decent year. So you do gotta get creative. Grace Thek: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I think the Pro Series ⁓ end-of-year bonus is certainly an incentive, but ⁓ it's also hard to yeah ⁓ commit fully to it because it's like if you put all those eggs in one basket for the pro series and don't do so well and don't get paid a bonus, then you've sacrificed maybe other prize money from shorter races where you can race more frequently. And I think for me, making the jump up to Iron Man came later into my career. And a a part of that was because with 70.3 racing, I could race regularly and be rely on s you know some steadier prize money throughout the year versus if I wanted to do an Iron Man, I always thought that I had to, you know, not race for a a large chunk of time, maybe three or four months, to prepare for an Iron Man and then Jackie Hering: Yeah. Grace Thek: Depending on how that went, maybe I would get some prize money, maybe I wouldn't. And then I would need some time off afterwards to recover. So I would be racing less throughout the year. And therefore it would be a huge hit to my living because most of my money is made from prize money. And so that was why it was so valuable last year to get a T 100 contract, because it gave me that stability to still pursue the full distance without having to, I guess, sacrifice. Jackie Hering: Be stressed about it. Yeah. Grace Thek: And stressed about the financial side of things. ⁓ And then this year is obviously a little different not having that financial stability from T100, but still having a good group of sponsors supporting me to be able to pursue ⁓ the full IMN and know that I won't be racing as frequently as I would if I was just racing the 70.3 races. So I think that was kind of my hesitation for a long time to jump up to the full distance. was the financial component, but then obviously as we touched on was probably the injury ⁓ management and trying not to get injured, ⁓ making that jump up to the full distance. Jackie Hering: Do you feel like you're doing good ⁓ managing your body like with with the increased training and with the Iron Man? Do you feel like you've got a handle on like the load that your body can handle and stay healthy? Grace Thek: Yeah, I think last year was ⁓ kind of a lesson in what I could tolerate and what I couldn't tolerate in terms of load. But I think the big difference in my training going from the seventy point threes to the full is that ⁓ the intensity is reduced. So I'm doing more hours and spending more time but a lot more aerobic or Iron Man paced ⁓ power which is substantially lower than what I would be doing training for a seventy point three. So it's kind of managing the load and I think for me the run load is the hardest one to manage, making sure that I'm not doing too much and ⁓ injuring myself. And I think ⁓ the last year kind of built that foundation and this year we were able to kind of take it one step further and add a little bit of intensity when it came to the running training, which is something that ⁓ I hadn't really done for about eighteen months. I was just easy running all my runs until this year I introduced one interval session per week. So I think, ⁓ yeah, I've got a relatively good grasp on what I can handle and what I can't handle and you know, little things come up and you work through it and figure out what the reason was for getting that niggle and how to I guess prevent that going forward. Jackie Hering: Are you ⁓ getting on the track at all or do you just do where do you do your interval runs? Grace Thek: ⁓ I usually just do it on a bike path. So here I do it down at the beach, which is just flat concrete, and then back home I was doing it on ⁓ yeah, a bike path near my home. So ⁓ yeah, I actu I have not been on a track. I think I've I can count on one hand how many times I've been on the track since I graduated from college where I was running on the track every week. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Jackie Hering: Gotta get on the track, squishy. So good. ⁓ ⁓ you would love it. Get on a track. I love track. That's how we're gonna run fast, Grace. Come on. Grace Thek: Okay. Maybe we have to do project track before Kona and s Jackie Hering: I was gonna try to run a five minute mile tomorrow morning. I'm Grace Thek: Jeez, that's awesome. Jackie Hering: I mean, try is the key word. We don't know. Well, well, I ran under five. I was gonna try to do five every year, but then I c felt like I got slow the last couple of years. And I did track the week before Chad Nooga. And I'm like, what is wrong with me? I need to try to run a five minute mile again. So prior to that I had never broken five, I think I ran my first five minute mile at like age Grace Thek: What's your best mile time? Awesome. Jackie Hering: thirty seven or thirty eight or something. So Grace Thek: That's awesome. So if you break that five minute tomorrow, I'll I'll have to be scared i if it comes down to a sprint finish in the last mile of seventy point three happy valley. Jackie Hering: Wha ha ha no. ⁓ man. I I don't think I have any s there's not really a sprint in me. it's more of like a steady burn for me. ⁓ don't so don't worry. ⁓ I don't know. ⁓ yeah, we will we'll find out. We'll see how we're feeling. ⁓ so your run, you don't you what's your like general run volume like? I just gotta find out because everyone's telling me you're such a fast runner. Grace Thek: Five K miles, nothing to sneeze at. Well I guess we'll see tomorrow. Jackie Hering: He Grace Thek: ⁓ we're gonna have the same dilemma we had in Texas 'cause I go off kilometers and you're off miles, but ⁓ I would say that I think my biggest week was seventy kilometers in the build to Texas, which would be fifty fifty maybe no, four maybe forty miles. Jackie Hering: ⁓ no, not this again. Get a calculator. ⁓ that's a ton. Hang on. Seventy kilometers to miles. Forty three point five miles. We're about the same. Grace Thek: Yeah, that was prob that was probably my biggest week, but most would have been significantly lower than that, maybe closer to thirty miles a week. So yeah, I think ⁓ yeah, obviously I come from a running background and I ran in college, ⁓ in the US and I got injured a lot throughout that time and it kind of ⁓ I guess the silver lining is it led me to the sport of triathlon because I still wanted to run and pursue running, but I knew my body couldn't tolerate large volumes, so I decided to to move into triathlon like so many people have. And yeah, and I guess from that I kind of went up and down with injury over the years. But ⁓ in 2024, I think it was, I decided to like commit to just running. Every run was just an easy jog and I had no intervals. And I did that for about 18 months to get some consistency because prior to that it was kinda like I had a really good week and then I couldn't run at Jackie Hering: Yeah. Grace Thek: all the next week and it was very up and down like a roller coaster of a ride and I decided I just wanted to keep running and to be consistent. So that's kind of what I did and then yeah, this year I've added the one session a a week. So I think that's helped and ⁓ I saw that Jackie Hering: Just move that, just move that from the concrete to the track and you're just gonna go. It the consistency over time, even if it's easy, is just so underrated because if you can just keep going, you'll just keep getting a better and better shape, even if you're not even trying. Grace Thek: Yeah, exactly. And I think I learnt that a lot during that time and even just adding one session now I've seen the benefits of that. And do you you don't do your track sessions in spikes like Christian does though? No. Jackie Hering: No, I would I would like break immediately probably. Grace Thek: Do you use do you super shoes when you train or do you just reserve them for races? Jackie Hering: ⁓ no, I I do wear them sometimes. I find actually they really help me I'll wear ⁓ for most like speed work, because I think they help my body recover a lot better. and then also like if my legs are f if I'm feeling actually really tired, I wear them also. Cause it for me it's like I can run a little bit more, like a little higher mileage, which for also, you know, maybe get up around 40 miles a week. Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jackie Hering: It just helps me recover a little better. So I'll wear them for sure for the fast running day. And then s on occasion, also if I'm doing like a real long run, like over 18, 15, 18 miles, I'll wear them for many long runs also. Yeah. I just they just feel good to me. I'm not even trying to go fast sometimes. I'm just wearing them for the actual cushion and to like protect my body. Grace Thek: Okay. Nice. Yeah they Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I tend to reserve them for the races, but ⁓ there's a couple of shoes that have a little bit of a carbon intermediate plate that I use and ⁓ if I need a little pep in my staff I definitely put those on for some of my easier runs. Jackie Hering: Yeah, I think it's the foam for me. It's like makes makes it bouncy. It makes me run a lot better. Yeah. Anyhow, ⁓ we gotta wrap this up. It's been an hour. I gotta go coach eight-year-old soccer. I'm a soccer coach also, because I don't got enough going on. ⁓ I just love it. It's it's fun. ⁓ highly recommend having children if you've ever considered it. Grace Thek: Nice. Busy life. Jackie Hering: We gotta wrap it up with what you're loving right now. ⁓ it can be anything. Since you've listened, you know ⁓ this segment. So hopefully you've thought of something that you're loving. What is it? Grace Thek: Mm-hmm. I did think of a couple things, but the one thing I'm loving, which it's gonna sound probably crazy, but weekend swims. I've been doing some weekend spin swims the last few weeks since Texas, and a part of it is because ⁓ the LA pool situation is pretty tough and so the pool is only open Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and so I have to swim Thursday, Friday. But the good thing about it is that Jackie Hering: No, I Grace Thek: ⁓ my husband has the weekends off and he's gotten into swimming and so he comes with me and we treat it as like a little Jackie Hering: And he's like a male model or something, so you like Grace Thek: We ⁓ we treated a little date, so we go swimming together and it's really cool to see his progress with his swimming. He's kinda gotten into it in the last like nine months or so. Since Challenge Roth last year he he watched me and he decided he wanted to train for a triathlon. And so it's been really fun to go to the pool and see his progress and then have an activity that we can kinda do together and it always ends up at a cafe afterwards or out for lunch. So ⁓ that's something I'm loving at the moment. Jackie Hering: That's okay. I'm strongly against weekend swimming usually, but this sounds ⁓ like a more bigger picture thing that I support, which is happy relationships. So I'm glad that you can't have that to do together. ⁓ even if you have to do a swim workout on the weekend, which sounds like ⁓ something I will never be doing. Grace Thek: Yeah. I don't I think I avoided it for so many years of my career and then the last year or so it's been creeping in. But ⁓ if it's an easy swim, it's okay for the weekend. But a a swim workout on the weekend's pretty rough. So having company to do it with is ⁓ always good. Jackie Hering: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I am looking forward to seeing you at Happy Valley. And hopefully your training goes good. ⁓ getting ready for that and I will see you there. And yeah, thanks for coming on the show. And thanks to everybody for listening who's made it this far. If you aren't, I don't even know how podcasts work, but if you aren't subscribed or whatever you gotta do for a podcast, ⁓ please go do that. And if you want to leave any comments on either YouTube or Spotify, then I will see them and I can respond to you. So thanks guys and I will talk to you soon. Grace Thek: Thanks, Jackie.