Ben: Sydney, thank you so much for joining the podcast.

Sydney: Yes.

Ben: we should we start with you just introducing yourself?

Sydney: Yeah, sure. So ⁓ my name is Sydney Trotsky. I haven't been in insurance for too long. I got licensed in twenty twenty three. and been kind of I guess my main ⁓ thing. I a couple other things going on, so I wouldn't say it gets as much ⁓ attention as like full time job, but again that's ⁓ probably why a of people go the independent ⁓ independent agent route, you do have that flexibility. but yeah, I've been doing it for a few years and don't know. I don't what else do you want to know? so ⁓ I licensed in life and health, but I only do life.

Ben: What type of insurance do you do?

Sydney: I guess that is kind of broad. With life insurance, so some people just focus on like simply final expense insurance, which would be like your burial protection that you're only gonna sell to, you know, a certain age group. and then there's different products like term insurance, which are geared more towards young people, people who have a lot of assets that they need to protect, ⁓ protection, ⁓ and then there's the scope of like annuities for, you know, more generational creating wealth. like IULs and that type of thing. so I'm able to do all of those, but I've focused mostly on whole life and term life ⁓ the moment. ⁓

Ben: Interesting. How do you find your clients?

Sydney: Yeah, so that's the hard part. You know, I I think a like if you talk to people who have been in the industry for, you know, ten, twenty, thirty years, you'll hear a lot of it does end up coming from your previous business. You know, referrals, word of mouth, just, you know, having that good relationship. And I've seen a little bit of that, but again it's only been about three years. so it's still that's ⁓ where the most work comes in, you know. It takes an hour on the phone with a client to actually help them, but finding the clients is where I spend the most amount of time. so the simple route is buying leads where know just like any ⁓ service or contractors if you're selling a or service ⁓ there is who need it ⁓ and they fill out a form online or do a things like that where you get those little lead magnets ⁓ and ⁓ you you them and they've they asked for the information but sometimes you call them and they have no idea why you're calling who you are, anything. ⁓ so it can be tricky buying leads, but other than that you just kind of have to market yourself 247. Like it's kind of a joke in the insurance industry. Like people say you can't be a secret agent. Because a lot of people do try to just rely on buying the leads versus the people who they're not meeting anybody without telling them what they do. know. And those are the people that is gonna ⁓ ⁓ know, mostly generating ⁓ warm or free leads or just genuine connections that they end up turning into clients.

Ben: What made you go into the drawers in the first place?

Sydney: I do have a sales background. and I think the same as most insurance agents, if you ⁓ literally if Google right now like what ⁓ industry creates most ⁓ millionaires It's insurance, what is one of the top three. So, you know, I I can I'm not gonna be the person that sits and says, ⁓ I'm j only here because I love to help people. but that is a huge plus, right? So ⁓ a sales background, I liked doing sales, I liked working with people, but ⁓ didn't really like the feeling of, ⁓ know, maybe selling somebody something that they don't necessarily need. Whereas now not only am I selling them something that they do need, but can drastically benefit their lives. So I I get to feel good for helping somebody and also you're compensated very well for doing so.

Ben: What does your typical day look like?

Sydney: So if I'm spending, you know, a full day working, think the best way to structure ⁓ to get your ⁓ a lot of people are in different places, you know, I'm still somebody who has to dial. So dial time. so majority the morning would be spent dialing. So sometimes this is a hundred sometimes it's five hundred calls. You know, like you might be there for a while ⁓ and then know, take a little break in between because it can get really discouraging when you're calling over and over and nobody answers. so definitely like mental reset I try to take in between ⁓ and then in afternoons is kind of more ⁓ handling things, servicing policies, if I have to call any insurance carriers, if I have to follow up with clients, or you know, and unfortunately we do have to deal with things like death claims. So sometimes there's more personal things that you deal with with the families. So I try to save all of that for the afternoon and keep the morning time focused on my, you know, outreach in general, whether it's the calls or marketing myself online.

Ben: How do you decide on which carriers to work with?

Sydney: Yeah, so it really depends ⁓ ⁓ what the person needs. ⁓ very big on hearing client out. ⁓ Because you know, somebody can call you and say, Hey, I want this, I know exactly what I want, but then they start telling me like the reason they want it, and I'm able to kind of pick apart, well, what you're looking for isn't really gonna do what you want. you have to really understand what they're looking to accomplish. Like what problem is in their house that we're trying to solve. ⁓ So really figuring that out first ⁓ and then understanding their is obviously important because ⁓ could say that they want to put ⁓ know $200 a month towards ⁓ insurance policy, and then you find out they're on a fixed income and barely have 200 at the end of every month. ⁓ it's like you have to really ⁓ and out these key things, and from there, I you know, I'm never gonna go straight to a because it's the cheapest, but if I know that I can get the same product at a cheaper cost, I'm always gonna try to do that. So I always start with the ones that are offering the most value for the best price. And then from there things like do they require a physical exam? Are they gonna have to go get blood work and all these other things done because some carriers do require that. And I try to make it as easy as possible for my clients. So those are the two main things that I look out for.

Ben: I I'd love to just dive deeper into how you generally think about the carrier landscape. Like it w what type of things do you look at when you're evaluating various different carriers?

Sydney: Yeah, so will say ⁓ working with ⁓ right company ⁓ this too because ⁓ there is a lot ⁓ in like not insurance companies but insurance IMOs ⁓ you can be a broker. there's a lot of them out there that aren't as ⁓ aligned as am. where, you know, I had worked for companies before that they told us to push a product just because we got the highest commission. you know, I'm I'm sure there's a lot of people who do that, ⁓ If you're you're not working in your client's best interest, it's gonna fall back on you somehow. So like there's that you know you'll hear things where their claims don't pay out, for example. You know, so ⁓ being with the company, ⁓ they're not even give you an option to contract with those type of companies. You know, so ⁓ that good IMO like, hey, these are companies that pay out 24 48 hours, ⁓ you know, they're not our clients a hard time. ⁓ Simplifying the process. If a client misses the payment, they're not gonna cancel it the same day. So having just kind of a ⁓ scope, like I'd say there's probably to 30 insurance carriers ⁓ I could safely put a client in and that they're gonna be protected and their money is not gonna, nothing bad's going to happen. And then ⁓ just of going from there, the little details like ⁓ you do we need a physical? Is there ⁓ different Is there things that, you know, some of them like mortgage protection and stuff, they might have income requirements. know, so there's a lot of different things that you have to look out for, but yeah, the most part, just avoiding those carriers at all costs. They're not even ⁓ something that come up if I was doing a quote for somebody.

Ben: Is ⁓ is there anything in particular, given you've only started this journey quite recently, that really surprised you about becoming an agent?

Sydney: I think the biggest thing is how many it's not really about the insurance industry itself, I guess, but the the practice. was very shocked to see how many of these IMOs are recruiting You know, and that is something that, you know, I I'd love to build a team. I think that's great. I love to help people and mentor them and I mean I had a mentor and it helped me a lot, but know, then you see people who are like doing recruiting more than they're producing. And then it becomes very, know, things get messy where, ⁓ know, they're starting people out ⁓ super low compensation so that benefit more if you bring in a bunch of agents. where I'm at now where I'm very happy, ⁓ start at a higher compensation rate to it producing rather than just trying to ⁓ bring you know into the business. Because I think it scares a lot of agents away too, because they're like, well, ⁓ if I make money doing this, why do I need to recruit a million people? it's because they have those recruiter models where ⁓ what it's designed for. ⁓ I think that was the biggest shock to me.

Ben: w what your situation now? You're working with an agency and and sort of independent going after your own business?

Sydney: Mm. So I do have an IMO that I'm under. And I'm not even going to lie to you. I probably have switched companies five or six times. So I've I've seen the bad, the good, the differences.

Ben: Do you get to keep your clients when you move?

Sydney: This is why if if anybody watches who is ⁓ really evaluating where you need to work or where you want to work, do your research because these these unethical companies that have a bad reputation have them for a reason. everywhere that I've worked, I've I own my book of business, but there are some companies that ⁓ maybe internal lead sources where, for if you wrote a bunch of clients up, they might still have access to that somehow. so it's funny you you ask. I I do have all of my clients, ⁓ but a lot of them I can't access their because of not having certain carriers anymore. ⁓

Ben: Mm.

Sydney: But I actually had this is kind of wild, but I had somebody call me a client who I have a very good relationship with. I make sure to have very good relationships with these people because they are my clients. I am here to help them. Don't forget my name. luckily she called me right away and told me that somebody called her and told her I was no longer in the industry and she needed to get a new policy. She called and I was like, you know what? Give me that. That number, give me that name. I'm gonna look into this a little bit, let them know that I am still in the industry and they can reach out if they want to talk to me. So I ⁓ I called it and I found out that it was somebody from my first company. Yeah. And I was like, Wow, so they are they've somehow gotten access to clients that I've sold and we're trying to flip my policies, which the end of the day is just such a bad practice because you are not doing clients any favors by doing things like that. They they've had these policies in place for so long. You're just making them lose money ⁓ now ⁓ something at a higher premium because they're older. Like just it's bad business, it's unethical. It's yeah, so I was was really unhappy to hear that. Yeah, so companies is very important. A lot of time could have been saved had I done that, but I just got licensed and wanted to hurry up and start working.

Ben: I I'm curious because from the independent agents that I've spoken to, they typically fall into one of two camps. It's an independent agent in life, and then they sell annuities, they sell, you know, term life insurance, things like that. Or they've ventured into property and casualty. It's very rare that I see people who, you know, who who start in P and C and go into life, but I do see it in the other direction. So I I guess the question to you is: have you ever thought about going into You know, homeowners, auto insurance and and really broadening your depth of insurance products into that direction.

Sydney: Yeah, I I think there's a couple of reasons people do that though. Like, ⁓ mean one, they might just ⁓ en really what they're doing. Which, you know, I can understand. It it can be very heavy to be talking to people all the time about funerals and burials and you know, it's it's not for everybody. So I think that that's one reason that people like they kinda jump in and they realize what they're gonna have to constantly be talking about and they're like, ⁓ it might be easier to talk about cars, know, or your house or things like that. I there's very few ⁓ people actually like are just ⁓ in insurance. spectrum that they're actually selling all of those different products. You it I I would find it very hard to unless you're somebody who just is constantly meeting people, ⁓ and it would be hard to focus in and be an expert on one thing, I think. So I understand the switch though, you know, going into a different field. I had considered it. But the end of the day, like I when people make that jump, it's not because they don't want to be in life insurance, it's because they didn't realize how hard it was going to be.

Ben: I think that tracks with the conversations I've been having, where people literally say, you know, life insurance is really all about what you said, which is calling everyone up, acquiring needs from somewhere. And then in in P and C it's a lot more about, well, someone has the need for insurance because they otherwise can't buy a house. Someone has the need for insurance because they otherwise can't buy a car. Right. So the the cost of a demographic is very different. You're trying to generate demand with life insurance to some extent, right? You have to explain to people what what why that's needed. And then once you explain it, it it makes a lot of sense. the explanation for home and auto and some of these other lines comes from somewhere else. It comes from a contract that you wouldn't be able to sign otherwise.

Sydney: Yeah. Yeah, I've literally had ⁓ because I market myself a lot organically, just trying to, you know, save on lead costs, of course. I've had people who literally would comment and they're like, why don't you try selling something that people actually need? And her argument was like, People can't even afford groceries right now. You think they're gonna get life insurance? ⁓ And in like educational brain, I'm like, if you can't afford groceries, how is your going to afford a disaster? Yeah. So it's just like all these things that people say, I'm like, you're just amplifying the fact that you really do need it, it's not needed in the way that ⁓ can't get in your car and drive down the road without insurance. You fully live your life ⁓ and care ⁓ what or anything that you leave behind ⁓ to you're not gonna get arrested for that. ⁓ So guess in terms of like real necessity, it is ⁓ something but like I I almost

Ben: Exactly.

Sydney: just prefer what I do because I don't want to be something that people do it because they have to. I want to like really make a difference. Like the people that I've really, really helped the most, like you get thank yous. They they check in with you. I have people telling me happy Mother's Day. You know, like I I made an impact on them. You're not calling your car insurance lady thanking her so much and inviting her to dinner. know, it's just the the reward ⁓ it's not the same for me in a field like that.

Ben: Sense. You've clearly learned a lot over the last three years. If you think about where you've gotten most of those lessons from, is it is there any particular moment that comes to mind?

Sydney: I will say I'm just very, very observant. And I'm very hands-on. So when I did start this, I was at every training I could possibly be at. And not just to like get it more information about the products and what we're doing, but like I wanna hear everybody's stories. I'm I'm mi building relationships with other agents. So I've just I've observed and talked to so many people in the industry that I do feel that that's kind of where it all came from. I'm just like a I'm a compiled brain of everybody I've talked to in the industry. and going from so many different companies too, you really get to learn a lot because, ⁓ know, s people will say, ⁓ they're all the same. It's just a brokerage. That's so far from the truth.

Ben: ⁓ do you use any tools for your life insurance business?

Sydney: I do. I do. think it would be very difficult not to. Yeah, I I especially when we're talking like ⁓ leads, you know, maybe somebody who's just strictly working off referrals, word of mouth, and doesn't have such a mass amount of people, it be more feasible without. ⁓ But have couple things I I at least always have a CRM. So I recently switched to it operates off Go high level. pretty sure it was designed for life insurance agents. Yeah, so there's a ton like ⁓ there's a ton of AI in it. ⁓ which you know I won't sit here and say I was like fully on board for all the AI stuff when it started happening, but the fact is if I'm not doing it, a bunch of other people are going to. if can make my life a little bit easier and more manageable, why not do it? So ⁓ I that. and it a ton of workflows, it has voicemail drops, it has follow-ups, and not just just for leads but also my existing clients. It'll do things like reach out and ask for reviews. It'll reach out to them every six months, every year to check in, see if they need anything to remind them that I exist because a lot of people forget. know, so there's just so many benefits wrapped up in that that I I think it's you're really doing yourself a disadvantage not having something.

Ben: It's so is Go High Level the only tool you use? You you said there were a few others.

Sydney: now I think it is. I I've used a couple of different like dialer systems, ⁓ ⁓ they're ultimately just like glorified CRMs. They weren't anything like what I have now with all the AI tools.

Ben: How do you get the quotes from the carriers?

Sydney: So that ⁓ is probably my favorite thing about my current company. ⁓ swear since I've started in this business, I was like, why can't we just have one website where I put in my clients information and It's not quite as extensive to like them all and tell me which one they'll get approved at, ⁓ I can put in my clients information and it gives me immediately ⁓ most the that's most likely to approve them and the rate. So we mm-hmm

Ben: That's a homegrown system in the current company you work in. Wow.

Sydney: Yeah, so the ⁓ CEO of this company, which mind you, he's only been his own company for like two years, but he's so ⁓ like in the tech space and embracing all of this stuff that he was able to create that. ⁓ it's ch I mean, it it's phenomenal. Like if if every agent had this, I think it would be a game changer. That's why like when I when I do when people ask about my company, I'm like, let me tell you about this link. ⁓ not only is that where I write my business. But if you texted me after this and was like, Hey, you know what? I need to look into a policy, but I kinda just want to do it myself, I could send you the link, put in your own information, submit own application, and I still get a commission if you went through with it. It's just ⁓ I mean I I don't know how more people aren't using something like that, but yeah, it's amazing. And I do all my business in one place and with that it tracks my numbers, what's pending, anything that the policy needs service wise, if there's documents waiting, it's all in one spot and this is a free service with my company. Yeah.

Ben: If you could wave a magic wand, I mean I i it sounds almost like the question I was about to ask you already answered because you know the the system that your company build exists now. I my question was going to be, if you could wave a magic wand to have any part of your daily activity be automated or like much improved, what part would you wave that wand for?

Sydney: Something better for lead generation. feel I that's probably across the board. Like we just want ⁓ wants to be calling everybody their moms and their aunts and their cousins to have to tell them what we do. We want help people who n need what we have. ⁓ But for reason it feels very hard to find them. You know, and then you have all these like TV commercials for for these companies that are selling sorry but terrible products and misleading information and those are the ones getting the phone calls. Yet have all these independent agents who are really genuinely working in their clients' best interest and going to be ⁓ their point for life, ⁓ which such a better trade-off, and those are the people who are struggling to get ⁓ clients.

Ben: Was there any is there any way in which you would solve that problem?

Sydney: I think the main thing is what really what it comes down to is running your own ads.

Ben: right?

Sydney: Yes, that is the problem. You know, I there's like I said, I do a lot of organic stuff, posting in Facebook groups, things like that, just trying to talk to locals and at least let them know what I do. But the chances of those posts being seen groups where there's thousands and thousands of people and hundreds of posts a day, it's very unlikely. ⁓ it's also very unlikely that they're gonna see your post at the right time when they need that service. ⁓

Ben: Course.

Sydney: Yeah, nobody's gonna screenshot it and be like, ⁓ I'll come back to this when I want life insurance. Like, that's not what happens. It has to be the right time, the right person. So running your own ads, I've done it before, it is extremely effective. I closed policies within a day or two of running my own ads, but you I mean you're still committing to budget at least every single day. And people are trying to get ⁓ started even get that safety. it to be able to do that, nobody has hundreds of dollars a week or a month to put towards it. it it really, ⁓ know, you asked earlier like the biggest shock. I think ⁓ really underestimate ⁓ slow progress is if you don't have a lot to invest into it.

Ben: Yeah. And and also think it's very difficult to know where time invested is gonna have the biggest payoff, right? Because there's always so many different things you can do. You can run ads, you can like post and Facebook, you can do all these things. And it's it I I think the trick is probably to f get a sense for where am I gonna get the most payoff? And if it is buying leads, you know, that that that that that might make sense if it's something else, you know.

Sydney: Yeah, it's definitely the quickest. You know, if I can buy a list of 500 names who were at least interested at some point in their life, the chances of you not being able to close one or two of those is it's crazy. So that is the quickest and easiest way, but again, you have to have the money to put into that and you're also taking a risk when you do that. Because sometimes you'll call a list of a hundred people and will answer. ⁓ you're like, I spent five hundred dollars.

Ben: Yeah.

Sydney: ⁓ ⁓ no return. ⁓ that's extremely discouraging. Like to people who give up very quickly. I've seen people purchase one or two lead orders and they're like, this doesn't work. I'm not doing this anymore.

Ben: interesting. It's really a hit and miss based on the list quality that you're ac acquiring.

Sydney: Yeah, lead vendors are a big controversy probably ⁓ a lot of industries. and think the biggest thing is because they're recycled. You know, not the only one getting them. Someone's gotten them before, someone might get them after me. So That's really why it comes back to running your own nobody else has access to them ⁓ going to be the most efficient way. But I w in of my old companies we had ⁓ a young kid start. He was like just turned eighteen years old, ⁓ had money, ⁓ like nothing more than to be successful in this industry. ⁓ He and started knocking on doors in his town. Just random. doors. Some eighteen year old kid Telling you that he sells life insurance and he like it it's was so impressive because he closed enough ⁓ like one month ⁓ then start ⁓ leads and he became a twenty thirty thousand dollar a month producer within six months. but the thing is how many people are willing to go door to door to strangers' houses ⁓ introduce themselves and try to convert that into a sale? ⁓ a lot of it just comes down to how much work are you really willing to do? How much are you really ⁓ willing to put yourself out there and do the hard thing or like the embarrassing thing ⁓ get you where you want to be?

Ben: And how are you how comfortable are you dealing with rejection?

Sydney: Yeah. Yeah. That's it's it's funny like when people even bring that up to me still because I no problem with that aspect anymore. ⁓ I've doors closed in my face, I've had people hang up on me, I've had people cuss me out, ⁓ I've everything that you can think of. And I'm like, I'm to the point where I'm like, she's having a bad day. And I will literally call back. Like I'll call back in a couple of days and I'll be like, I think you were having a bad day the other day. I don't know if you remember yelling at me. And sometimes it sparks a good conversation. Like I've had people be like, ⁓ I'm so sorry, like I was in the middle of this and that and the other. Like you just have to remind yourself that these are just humans and they're going through things. Like ha has someone ever called you when you're like in the middle of trying to, you know, get out of your car and you're dropping everything. And things are happening and you're like, I can't do this right now, but like, call me in an hour and I'm like, I'm sorry, what what's this about? know, the rejection factor is ⁓ think that's just something that mentally some people can handle and some people can't. If if you ⁓ not adjusted to that within a month, ⁓ ⁓ gonna work.

Ben: I think it's a big filter, no? It's a big filter for ⁓ these like i any type of sales role really the the fact that people who can't deal with rejection will unlikely be successful

Sydney: Yeah. it's it's a thing, you know. Like some people are just not built for things like that and that's okay, you know. ⁓ I I remember I first started, like you know, like I said that first month or two, I was like, Wow, I didn't ⁓ expect ⁓ this It it kinda sucked at first and you do kinda internalize things, you know, when people are saying things to you, you're like, ⁓ maybe I'm bad at this, or like maybe I shouldn't be calling them, or like, you know, you start to go through all the things then you close a deal and you have a very happy client who's very nice and appreciative, and you're like, No, ⁓ I'm doing is good. That person's just not nice. You

Ben: I I'd love to look to the to the future with you. So wh where do you see Sydney so ⁓ what what do the five years look like for you, ideally?

Sydney: Yeah, so know, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that I am just in money. you know, I went it's been three I've been trying to grow to where I wanna be and I might be doing that for another year or two because I didn't have a ton of money to invest up front ⁓ and I'll be honest, another downside when you aren't used to having money, the first time you have money, you don't really ⁓ how to handle it. I got on a little bit of a hot streak and lost it all. So ⁓ I'm for the next time that that happens to do things the right way. So, really just my own production up, and you know, I there's no reason that somebody who's consistent in this business and good at what they do. ⁓ Do shouldn't no reason to not be making ⁓ know at least $15,000 $20,000 a month. So my own per personal pen, that's ⁓ that's constant goal. ⁓ And would like to have a small team of people under me as well. I ⁓ I'm always talking to people about what I do, but ⁓ I'm gonna bring somebody into sales who doesn't want to be into sales. I'm not like doing heavy recruiting or anything like that, but I know good ⁓ of ⁓ opportunity. This is for the right person. if I can take somebody out of their nine to five, or I'm a single mom, so I understand how important time with your kids are, you know, like ⁓ schedules when get in sports, like this freedom is not something you get ⁓ with job. Most jobs don't. ⁓ Most people having to make these huge sacrifices. So ⁓ I'd like be able to help get some people out of that ⁓ and teach the right way now that I've learned the hard way and I can guide people in the right path to actually see the success. So that's why I want to bring some people in but I don't see myself having any big agency or anything like that. just enough that I'm like, you know, I'm I'm helping some people out and ⁓ clients are happy and then things will hopefully work off more of a ⁓ of mouth referral basis.

Ben: I wonder whether it's the lead generation component that if that was solved, then you could dedicate all your time to really just helping people, right? It's it's it it feels to me like the taxing part of the job, right? The thing that really is hard ⁓ is calling people, the buying you know, getting lead lists, doing all that type of stuff. ⁓ and the fulfilling part is when you get to Find someone who really wants your help and then you sit down with them and you can you can tell them what's probably best in their life situation.

Sydney: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean ⁓ imagine. ⁓ the commission that we make. ⁓ I couldn't even imagine if the system was so perfect that every morning I'd sit down at my computer, ⁓ have five appointment you know, each call takes about an hour. So say I have five appointments lined up, say I close three of Average is seven hundred to a thousand. Me a three thousand dollar day every day, you know. It's too easy. It's way too easy. But that's what every life insurance agent wants. We want to just have these appointments. I you don't have to buy, but let me have an appointment. At least set me up for a presentation to educate and help you out if I can. If I can't, okay, that's fine. that's thing about the CRMs too. ⁓ You when they're reaching out to my leads and stuff, it does give them the option ⁓ book appointment. on the calendar. Some of these CRMs even have AI bots that are kind of doing some of the calling for you, trying to set up appointments. So I we would all just love to sit down to a full calendar, but I think that takes a quite a bit of time in the industry before you get that luxury.

Ben: thank you, Sydney, for joining the podcast.

Sydney: Yeah, of course. I'm I'm glad I could help. If if there's anything else, I'll be here.

Ben: Amazing.