Robert Martin: My phone started to blow up on it. I was like, Okay, let me solve this. I've already parked just sitting down so that way I can do this from a seated position. So one moment. Anyway, thank you. ⁓ so

Ben: And we're back. I think that the signal is better. Yeah, I think you were explaining sort of how you got to where you are today. You ended up selling your book. That you were just... Amazing. All right.

Robert Martin: Perfect. Sorry about that. I was challenging everything. How did the move go from the UK? ⁓ I was challenging the words of wisdom I had heard prior, which was internet leads don't work. You gotta smile and dial. And I'm like, it's it's we're in 2020, the decade I don't think that can be true anymore. ⁓ well, it's the same time to write a big account as a small account. I also found that really isn't true. Even the service side, a lot of these new carriers, or even some of the older carriers, they're developing really good self service tools. They're developing really good like

Ben: ⁓ yeah, I mean we I'm I moved from Germany actually f ⁓ a couple of couple of years ago. Yeah, I was in I was working out of Berlin and prior to that out of Munich, which has a lot of insurance as well of course. and and then yeah, I moved over 'cause of my wife. She runs she's a she's a archaeologist here in New York. And so she had an opportunity and it was easy enough for me to come along and so now I'm just figuring out what is what is what is the next step, you know.

Robert Martin: My post. Nice. almost light diet ⁓ agency management software tools inside their portals. I was like, it's just not it can't be true. I I I I sat out there with small accounts have value. You're gonna get referrals by treating them well for sure. And it's gonna build into a very natural pipeline. And the ones that then make it, who are like, ⁓ I started on weekends doing lawns, my best success cases, he went to be ⁓ like he had 18 employees.

Ben: but I've been working in insurance for the last two years here in New York as well. Mostly with carriers, so that's also why I'm so interested in independent Asians 'cause I don't know much about that space at all. Robert, thank you thank you for coming on the podcast.

Robert Martin: Yeah. My pleasure.

Ben: Do you want to give a quick introduction on yourself?

Robert Martin: ⁓ is this recorded yet or no? Thank you. I wasn't sure. ⁓ I'm Robert Martin. I own Gnome Insurance Services. I it's a scratch agency I built. ⁓ I sold my first book and I'm in the process of starting to build a second one. I wear many hats because I also work with an aggregator and I've done some consulting on the marketing side of things for insurance agents who are having trouble in building online.

Ben: It is, yes, it is already recovered.

Robert Martin: He went from a one man doing on weekend warrior while you had a day job and he turned his lawn care company into eighteen employees with workers' comp, with general liability with auto, the whole kid in caboodle. So Yeah, I was like, I think there's opportunity here. And then out of leads that I haven't been able to fully convert, just because I haven't been as I've done this on more of the part-time side, like it. But if I've been just using organic social media leads, I didn't spend a dollar on acquisition. I didn't spend any marketing money. ⁓ I was already nationally licensed at the producer level. So I got an agency in my home state and a lot of these

Ben: That's fascinating.

Robert Martin: presence and getting leads. Like they'll go, ⁓ they made one post, buy my insurance. ⁓ no one pressed yes and gave me all their data. The internet doesn't work. I'm just gonna keep phone dialing. I've helped people like that learn how to build rapport and relationships online occasionally. So I wear many hats, but yeah, that's all I do. Insure tech carriers, the MGAs kind of let you operate on the producer license level usually. So I was able to write business in several states very affordably. I think my startup budget was a thousand dollars and I built an agency that had three hundred thousand of premium enforced and was making north of the thirty, forty, thirty to forty grand range from nothing on week on part time basis for most of it. And then in between a layoff at one point, there was six months where it literally put

Ben: That's so interesting. What made you go into insurance?

Robert Martin: I had been doing I went from being an actor to being kind of a salesperson, ⁓ non-insurance, and then I needed to find a way to kind of find a expertise. I knew there was money in niches and and like finding a specialty. So I went from selling vacuums to selling insurance. I luckily had a family member in insurance because I the three options I was looking at. I was like, it's gonna be real estate, taxes, or insurance. I had a family member who had

Ben: Yeah.

Robert Martin: all the food on my table. It it took care of me as a backup because tech had been turbulent in like the 2023 through 2024 range. And it yeah. So it fed me and kept me alive and paid for me and my wife. And it gave me a lot of freedom and a good safety net. And then I was able to sell it for a decent return. And helped manage like captive commercial carrier's products for years as an underwriter. I knew the understanding of some of the risk management terms. I was like, well, I got a head start here just because he worked from home in a time when a lot of people didn't. So I was like, I knew a lot of terms. I was like, okay, I have I'm gonna take the one I have the head start in.

Ben: very familiar.

Robert Martin: ⁓ I had a very fair contract. So I did some consulting in that time at first. And then I started laying the foundation for a new a new plan moving forward that I'd have a new project that I want to work on. And I've gotten very familiar with a lot of top tier carriers.

Ben: So interesting. What is what is he what did he do? He was also an agent for captive.

Robert Martin: He was an he na he was an underwriter at ⁓ CNA for a long time and then a couple other insurance companies. But I'd grown up hearing insurance terminology for like captive risk management around trucking and ⁓ roofers. And I I sh went straight head first into trucking insurance and I'm I didn't do great. I can admit that fully, but I learned a lot

Ben: Can you walk me through sort of what an average day looks like for you? ⁓ And not what the ideal day is, but really what, you know, going into the nitty gritty details, like what do you typically do?

Robert Martin: Once I got license, I think it was my first job. I cold called agencies around my house. This was in 2019. Found one who was willing to give me a shot and I did not do well. I probably would have eventually, I like to think, but COVID messed up everything because it made it a very just weird time in commercial auto insurance. So then I bounced around. I got a try to working for some insure techs, and then I ended up doing leaving insurance for a little bit to do software sales. ⁓ so using social media, using the internet in any capacity, it still uses similar rules as people who run the ad side of it. You're looking at keywords. So, like you can look you literally on Facebook, you can go search liability insurance. Now you're gonna find personal auto commercial stuff in there. You gotta somewhat cultivate your ⁓ your position. I found that personal pages have a resounding success right now for one reason.

Ben: Yeah.

Robert Martin: And then I launched an agency why doing software sales and then I've just it's been a it's been a wild ride.

Ben: Interesting.

Robert Martin: They're insulated from AI. Certain certain places more than others, but personal Facebook. Meta's position effectively is if you put a bot in charge of your personal Facebook, they will ban it. And they're very quick at catching it. You would have to spend a lot of time trying to master making that bot appear like it's a person. And even then, I know they catch and they ban a lot of people on that. ⁓ but no, use it ⁓ search, add people there.

Ben: Mm-hmm. Hmm Is the software sales adjacent to insurance?

Robert Martin: Yes, it was with a company called Guesty. They had a damage protection program. It was a warranty on people who run short-term rentals. So they hired me because of my insurance background, but it wasn't they made sure for the longest time it was not an insurance product because they they didn't want to deal with the red tape on it. It was a if a guest breaks something, we collect this amount on stays and then we pay out to make sure the damage is paid for when they break a $200 TV.

Ben: Hmm

Robert Martin: It's a very insulated space from it right now. So there's still a lot of organic connection there. And people really, there's a lot of digitally first people. There are people who like older people and younger. This isn't an age one demographic or the other. People don't want to pick up the phone as much. They're getting spam risk and like auto-dialing and all the different things out there that make the phone space slightly worse off. We're seeing that online as well. But if you can cultivate, hey, I'm a real person, I'm not. stuff that wouldn't normally meet a deductible on a traditional insurance plan. So they really liked my insurance background, but they were like, we don't need any of your licensing for tied up on anything. So feel free to use it if you want to. And I built a little digital, I built a work from home digital agency, the one that would normally get like eyes rolled at it, like, ⁓ that's not going to do anything. And on the first book I built, I built on an aggregator.

Ben: That's why you ran

Robert Martin: Out of a virtual assistant call center from a random country XYZ. you have a big very good ability to build rapport. I think it's also being a part of these spaces. I used I listened to a lot of Gary Vaynerchuk when I was younger, and I definitely know he left an imprint on my social media like approach. ⁓ he calls it the like the two cent strategy, and it's very similar. I use the commons, I build rapport in there and I advise people to build rapport in the commons. I used Agentero for market access. and I did 300,000 in new premium, probably really doing it as a more part-time focus when I was starting out. And

Ben: Interesting. Mm-hmm.

Robert Martin: I scaled it. I got lots of clients who were just it was a lot of small premium. I noticed there was a gap that there's a lot of accounts that larger agencies don't even want to touch. They have a minimum premium in their head of where it's worth it because they have service costs, they have other costs. And there's the old saying of, would you rather write 10 $1,000 policies or one $10,000 policies? A lot of agents use that mindset to brush off smaller accounts. ⁓ don't just ask for a close. Don't just go and sit there and say, ⁓ buy my insurance. When someone shares something about cats or dogs, be genuine. Never lie. ⁓ hey, I'm not a pet person, but that's a cute dog. ⁓ people sharing memes. I've literally I've gotten a lead by sharing memes about like I'm not a big person in golf and like

Ben: Calls.

Robert Martin: I used some insure tech carriers and I was able to quote organically online really easily where I'd build funnels generating ⁓ thousand, two thousand dollar premium leads almost daily where they'd be binding and they'd go through a payment link. Cause I realize if I get them used to taking phone calls, especially with the amount of people of who don't wanted to get on the phone anyway, it sets the expectation. But if I bind with them over Facebook Messenger, Instagram. It's a it's a meme about where a bunch of people are like, Yep, golf's awesome gone. It's small office talk jokes, things like that in different groups and places. You want to not just have comments that are give me your money.

Ben: Hahaha Wow. Wow.

Robert Martin: If they look, especially when you're in groups, when you're in groups, you can click on a user and you see all of their interaction in the group, particularly. So if you build a genuine rapport, the social engineering logics are going to look at it and go, ⁓ he's a real person. He's actually a member of the community. He interacts. He gives advice that's useful. I'll talk to him. He's not just here to sell me a product.

Ben: Good day.

Robert Martin: My proudest one is right now has been Reddit and Snapchat, where I've been like, I've gotten deals done over it. I've collected all the info. And these social platforms, most of them have decent encryptions and like I'm not taking payment info on them, which helps because I can send out a payment link with most of the new insure tech carriers. I I built a niche there. And then ⁓ the aggregator I worked for.

Ben: Yeah. No way. Mm-hmm.

Robert Martin: ⁓ I think there's a benefit. Yep, sorry.

Ben: Interesting. you say that the majority of your current clients are from Facebook?

Robert Martin: Offered me a job around the time I was considering refocusing. So I've shifted into an internal agency underwriting manager. I do have a couple, I do some deals here and there that I like that on my own book right now. I kind of get to keep my prize like favorite accounts and not worry too much. I'm learning a bit more on the ⁓ the legacy side of some of the carriers as well. Like I've gotten very familiar through my current role with the Hanover Chubb ⁓ travelers. ⁓ yes, I could easily say the majority of the ones I've sold. I have some other lead sources that I have built into. my referrals have definitely added in random text and random emails for the people who didn't who weren't on Facebook or they told their buddy about me in person and then were like, Hey, you should use my guy. But no, the hyper majority when I really do a like a forensic audit, the hyper majority, I'd say 90% plus came from other Facebook or other social media sites at least. So I'm very confident if I wanted to scale on much larger full-time project I could. But as I am the part-time agent that most people would have rolled their eyes at, but I I made it work successfully for me and it fit into the life I was building and the opportunity. And yeah, it's been an interesting, it's been a very wild ride. I I jokingly post on social that I'm the hardest working agent after eleven PM because I have bound probably

Ben: So then let's say ⁓ you're messaging with someone on Facebook and they ask you about homeowners, let's just use one example. What would your process look like where you go to carriers and get quotes?

Robert Martin: ⁓ if I have the direct appointment, I'll use a go just log in and I'll see if I have a good market for them on direct. I've worked with aggregator networks. As I said, I built an on Agent Taro. I work with them as well at a capacity to assist building their network and ⁓ 15, 10 to 15% of my deals between 11 p.m. and three in the morning. Be clients who have erratic schedules, contractors in particular. If you're willing to service them when they're available, and some of the social media platforms show you when they're online, like they're brain, they're doom scrolling, they're playing video games, they're venting, they're relaxing. ⁓ I've got everything set up. Let me just touch base with them. ⁓

Ben: No way. Yeah.

Robert Martin: You can go to an aggregator, you go to a raider for especially for home and auto, and you can plug in to see if the raider will give you any options for carriers you may not have an appointment with. I think that's one of the nice parts of Agentero is you can write under their code effectively, and it will let you buying business, you may not be able to qualify. You may not have the production to sell this policy with the carrier you want, but they might be able to get you set up. Dellos, Bu, and California are really good examples. And also, this only works on social media because I know the telecommunications rules are different for texting, unless they're an active client. You have rules on when you can and can't. With social media, when you get them as friends, they've effectively given you consent to, hey, I can follow up technically under the rules as I had it explained to me. it created a really good I'm servicing them where they are, when they need it, when they're available to be served. Nine to five if you're a pressure washer.

Ben: Yeah.

Robert Martin: very easy to get set up through that process. and then at worst case, I've been clever. I've worked with people on referral. Right now I have a family member's home and auto with travelers through a referral book because I've just been with other around other agents. And I've some agents are very against the referral book side of things. So like they don't want to ever do that t 10 foot pole. Others are, yeah, you can we do 50-50 split. You can access do in-house as lawn care guy doing house is you're not on your phone. You're you're doing hard labor out in the fields right now. ⁓ you're not going to respond in that nine to five window. And that's part of the underserved finding people who just aren't getting a good experience. You give them a white glove experience, they'll re they'll refer everyone they know to you. And that's where it really picked up after about six months in my outbound to inbound ratio shifted from like 90% outbound to like 30% outbound.

Ben: Because Yeah.

Robert Martin: I got a buddy who will let me access traveler's personal lines nationwide. He has a strong appointment there. And I've placed some friends and family in my home state of Georgia because I mainly lean commercial, but I was like, I want to build this out. And then on commercial auto, I had some contacts there. I'm like, I don't have the ability to really go beyond like maybe like Geico progressive the retail side, but I was a I got a, I think I I still get ref referrals from guys I sold a policy to with no service work three years ago because I made it a smooth five minute experience and I set expectations correctly. So yeah, that's

Ben: Yeah. It's fascinating. And did you is that kind of what you expected or or like did did this all d all develop in in that way?

Robert Martin: It wasn't a great commission, but it was a giant account, so I was still happy. I got two out of 10% of the of the take on a large 10-tow truck fleet. This has been my biggest proof that my marketing side works, is that this was a quarter million premium account. I never spoke with him on the phone. I got all the info. I got everything through his personal Facebook. And then I play helped place him with a referral partner. And Definitely developed. I originally all right. So the name Gnome Insurance, my plan. I came up with the idea kind of like loosely in the back of my head in 2022, a year before I actually launched. I found the aggregator, I thought about it, I was on the fence. I was like, I could sell so much branch home and auto insurance, branch the insure tech carrier. They had their reinsurance issues and they couldn't their pricing.

Ben: No way. Wow.

Robert Martin: I'm gonna get my two percent up front and two percent on renew as a referral partner for because I was licensed in the state. I got all the stuff, I landed it for them pretty much and did the front work. And I was willing to refer it, but as because I'm more on the part-time side, yeah, I sometimes have to pass or hand things off. But at the same time, I built a fantastic marketing funnel. It was also part of the reason I sold my first book when I when I scaled. I was like, this kind of came together unexpectedly faster than I expected, but it did the job of proving everything I wanted to. They there was a reason they were beating state farm all state and farmers in the preferred zip codes and decimating the captives for just about a minute, I think. They were coming in a little too aggressive and they had to fix that. My original plan was I was gonna sell them as almost like a captive independent almost, because it's like they're so affordable, it's so easy, it's gonna go great. I was gonna send garden gnomes to every home that I sold a policy to as a as my kind of thing to

Ben: Okay. Sure.

Robert Martin: I also had really high expectations of what I thought service needed to look like. And yeah, it's been an interesting journey. I learned I was better. I would have never called myself the outbound prospecting wolf hunter type and say like those sales archetype conversations that companies love to have. Like, are you a hunter? Are you a farmer? Are you a like, or do you like to maintain the relationship? I was like, I would have always said I like building rapport with existing. I'm more on the like, I take inbound.

Ben: You yeah.

Robert Martin: That was the concept for GNOME insurance. Then the market changed, and I was like, ⁓ I gotta go commercial. I've done commercial auto, which is complicated. General liability at the end of the day is not nearly as a pain in the butt as doing the commercial auto side of accounts. So I was like, okay, I found codery in November, I wanna say of 2024. And then

Ben: Yeah.

Robert Martin: And then I can do outbound, but it's not my strong suit to owning my own agency and showing that I could go against the like words of wisdom of other people's methods and really just do the way I wanted to. No, I'm I'm an outbound killer. I just don't wanna be yeah. I realized how easy it was to quote to bind. I started calling people and collecting payment info, but then they had a feature called their quote snapshot. And I think they did the best of all the programs and like insure tech carriers or programs. You can literally send them a payment link through text, through email, through mess through through app. It opens up, it has their info, they can put in their payment info. They lot they bind on the spot. It emails them the COI, it emails them the policy.

Ben: How many carriers do you? How many, I think there's a bit of delay on the line. How many carriers do you work with right now? And actually before you answer that, because conscious of the delay, are there any particular carriers where you're saying like, yeah, I know I will go to this one for this particular risk, know, but do you have favorites and are you comfortable sharing maybe some of those insights that you have from the work you've done with carriers?

Robert Martin: And if they don't need service, if they're a residential contractor who doesn't need any COIs, I still have people who refer stuff to me from years back. Anyway, I built my first book and then I ended up selling it because I I did have to decide if I wanted to build a service team. I explored virtual assistants, which all in all wasn't too bad. I just had really high standards. I know what I know now. I wouldn't have sold a book now, but I sold my first book I had built. Yeah. ⁓ yes, I know I know several carriers in several markets now because I've had to w help work on a rating program on the agent terror side. So I've gotten to work of legacy and then ensure tech on my own side as well. ⁓ the In twenty in the beginning of twenty twenty-five, and I got a decent payout on it, which was nice, but I had unrealistic expectations on what I should be servicing people. I was thinking in my head, like a software person having spent too much time around that side of the industry, I gotta get people COIs in like two, three hours. I gotta turn around service same day every day. Coterie as an MGA is a fantastic option. Is paperwise, are they going to be the best policy in the world? No. But I think who they're selling to, they were never going to buy Hanover or Chubb starting out on weekends. They were never going to buy a traditional legacy carrier product that takes longer to get a quote on, that comes out a little bit more expensive, because it is a better piece of paper on average than legacy.

Ben: What what what made you want to sell it?

Robert Martin: If there's a delay, I gotta call the underwriters and I gotta prod them to like process the endorsement as fast as possible. I set an unrealistically high standard for myself. The people who ended up taking over, I think the service time went from probably closer to two to three business days, maybe three to five on a busy week. There wasn't some grand demise. ⁓ the the book retained I I had access to see parts of the data on the book and the health of it, like. Cotery uses like Spinnaker, Everspan. They'll use some carriers that don't have as big of a brand or as like maybe customized every possible endorsement, like manuscript policy written perfectly. But no, they are a good insure tech carrier for people who, in my opinion, would have had no insurance otherwise. They literally would have just been uninsured. I think they do an exceptional job in new business ventures, in micro small business.

Ben: ⁓ Mm-hmm.

Robert Martin: No, the book continued to function just well. There was maybe one or two clients in total who were r frustrated at the drop in quality.

Ben: Retained.

Robert Martin: ⁓ so I have a very strong preference there. I like Next, but as a carrier, they do scare me a little bit because the way their direct consumer works, I'm really worried. Like I've found people who have say they already have Next, and they're there are people just admitting to insurance fraud on the internet saying, Yeah, I use Next, and they're not my client, so I can't do much about that, really. But I find But no, I was but it gave me an opportunity to refocus and I wanted to learn more. I like this was a this was a book of business I built through a series of happy accidents of

Ben: Yeah, now I can hear you again. Yeah.

Robert Martin: I really hope they find a way to fix it. Their workers comp is a lot better at catching it. ⁓ but their general liability, I still know they probably have like a dude owns a rage room and he says he's a wedding venue, or a dude owns this and he says he's this online and they can get a policy. And they're not getting dropped at renewal. They're getting renewed two, three, four years. So I'm hoping they can fix it in the long term because they have great tech.

Ben: I think you were saying it's a book of business that you built through a series of accidents more than anything else. I think that's where where I lost you. Well, we'll just wait until a claim happens, right?

Robert Martin: Exactly. I don't like that's that's just a recipe for disaster that I would love to see it fixed, but ⁓ on the legacy side, I love the Han O ⁓ Hanover. I can't ⁓ they're not the other just Hanover. ⁓ I love Hanover, it's a fantastic carrier. I think their workers comp general ⁓ their workers comp bop or general liability kind of bundles are very competitive. ⁓ and you can get into the nitty gritty of almost every endorsement with them. ⁓ currently structured, they require agency licensing, which was the biggest reason I didn't get to write them as much as I could have. ⁓ it just has an extra additional cost for every state you want to write them in. You need to be agency licensed, was my understanding. So it made this barrier where I gotta really get into the deep niche side of them in only a few states. But fantastic opportunity. Chubb is A very competitive carrier. I've never had the most personal success with them. I've heard a lot of good things. I've quoted a lot of business with them, but it's definitely felt like they they have it feels like they have a second appetite code kind of bar like you learn it by doing. It feels very like a guild apprentice. Like you're just learning by doing. You're not gonna find a big book of the secret to making it with Chubb. ⁓ But they're a fantastic carrier. They have some great policies. I love their cyber and some of their secondary line products. But it definitely feels like you'll think I you'll think you know it. And then you'll be like, why did this not work out? Why did this not work out today? And you're just gonna slowly learn by doing with them. ⁓ Berkshire Hathaway is fantastic with almost all their sub carriers and products because I've written with ⁓ Biberk with three. I've written with Breeze. I've worked worked with Nico, Nico on the ⁓ broker side. The only thing I will say is I really think on Biberk they need to let agents know. And with all their lines, I think, even with three, they really need to specify up front that they are pickier. They are they are the right amount of picky. And I respect direct notice of cancellation if they find something like someone's. info wasn't accurate or someone gave partial info or you were only quoting with what you had, they are the king of accuracy. If you write a risk and the insured tells me something that's wrong, they will find it because they will check everything in postbind review. Like they will s they've found stuff that no other carrier finds. And they will send a D a direct notice of cancellation out immediately. And then you have to guide them how to fix it. The best example I can think of, a lot of contractors buy a generic website.

Ben: Hahaha

Robert Martin: The generic website maybe says they do something they've never wanted to do. My biggest example are pressure washers who are like, I have a fear of heights. I literally get dizzy the second I step on a ladder. I'm never going up there. They'll write it down, they'll sign an affidavit, they'll do everything. But the random guy they bought a website from on a who built a just stock photo brokerage website, put roof washing on their website. Berkshire with every carrier will cancel on that because they're hard checking. where I know a lot of the competition is not. So that's a double edged sword. You know for a fact that business is stable and is not going to get canceled over anything, but you have to do your due diligence when working with Berkshire. Just so that's with any of them, because I think they have a higher threshold across the board.

Ben: That makes sense. Very interesting. How do you typically get the quotes? So you mentioned there's a couple of portals you might log in. Do you use any other tools to basically place the business?

Robert Martin: ⁓ with commercial, I'm ⁓ I've used the like ⁓ Agent Arrow has a commercial raider. It's what I assist on running on the back end. ⁓ if I have to, I will go with them. I personally prefer because I run a one man shop situation usually. I personally think as a one man shop it's really it's not impossible. It's very hard to keep track of. Everything you need to be doing and with ⁓ Raiders commercially, whether you're with Smart Choice for another aggregator, First Connect, or if they have if they were to ever develop one or Agentera or any of the options out there who offer that service. There's a lot of just email communication. You have to be a very organized email checklist, make sure you circle back or connect it to an AMS. I ran a very low tech agency. I ran on an Excel sheet because I didn't like any of the AMSs offered to me when I looked at into a bunch of them. And even now, even with a lot of new tech coming to that field, I still feel like for people who are building a scratch agency, you're buying shoes five sizes too big almost always until you hit like a million premium. I think it's really easy to run an agency. With a couple direct appointments, you have the access to the mark you need to on the commercial side and even on the personal side, they're getting better. They're offering light AMS framework in most carriers these days. ⁓ there's a few you have to manually track. Berkshire, that's another thing I'll say on their end. I you have to manually track. They're one of the ones that is not offering that light AMS support. It might go to a completely different section of website once you bind, you may not even be able to find it unless you have the name or the policy. Data to look it up manually, but it's not going to have like a bound policy section to make it easier management. But a lot of the industry, I feel, has started to go this way where they're giving you light AMS services. ⁓ so I didn't justify the cost with my first book because I was just like, it I don't want to have to like settle for something. I'm gonna buy something and then be frustrated and have to do it their way of doing it because it won't let me do it the way I want to manage it. So that was the only reason I personally had more issues with ⁓ commercial raiders. There is still email correspondence that is essential when using a raider. You need to you you it's very hard to be a a fly by night agent who's just like popping off everything and focused on sales, only outbound, and then use a raider because you have to be accountable to managing that. And there are systems that make it better for sure. Agent Taros.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Robert Martin: Doing great things there. And it's a great opportunity that I've gotten to play with there. But the number one thing is we'll like I've seen the other side of that. If you're not an agent who looks at your email that much and audits every email you get, ⁓ carriers are some will call you, some won't. And so you can miss things even with direct access. Like it's really easy. You need to be, if you're not that type of person, Getting other it whether it's a bot an AI an AI email assistant, a virtual assistant, or an actual person, getting to that level where you can pass the service off is very important. If you're not the type of person who can wear all the hats of am I good at just prospecting and selling the policy, servicing and then monitoring, there's still a lot of email communication or like, ⁓ I got one notice and that's it. If I miss it, I missed it, and that's gonna lead to problems. So Yeah, using a rater is the second and then referral book is the third. So that's my three-way funnel. And if I can't sell it between those three, direct ref ⁓ raider referral, ⁓ I l I'll usually ref ⁓ throw it to someone still. I've built a good professional network. I even if I don't get paid, I'd still rather I've gotten an occasional referral from people I've never sold. Yep, because I introduced them to the right person.

Ben: Serve the customer

Robert Martin: If I can't help you, but I introduce you to the right person, I'm still gonna get a referral from you in theory. So I've tried to just maintain that level of professional put them first.

Ben: Exactly. Yeah, that makes sense. ⁓ That makes sense and I love how you think about this. Is there a thing in your workflow where you're like, hey, if I could wave a magic wand to improve this part, I would love to sort of automate this or maybe make this faster. Is there something in particular that comes to mind?

Robert Martin: How I tend to do things if If I could get Ayy An AM, if I could truly get an AMS of my dreams being it does everything at the stage you want it to, it would start at like $10 a month range, and it would scale, it would be a slider. It would be you can put everything together in a box and you can slowly just turn on more functionality as needed. The problem is all of them want to sell you their set package, and their minimum is still more than most agents need for the first half a million premium. I would, if I could. build the tool or find it. Either way, I would happily be the person to build it or do it long term. And AMS where it just evolves with you. It could start at free even and you just turn on more functionality as you need it and it scales with you as budget. Right now I find that's the biggest startup cost in scratch agencies usually. ⁓ it's usually more than your EO insurance. ⁓ in some cases it's more than your licensing. You have upfront cost of if you need to scale licensing quickly, but you can't also you can't buy them anymore. So it I said it's a it's a large cost. There used to be the AMS structure well before my time where you could buy a a software and you just own it. You'd have the disk kind of thing. And we've shifted to that as a service function. This is your biggest expense as a startup agent outside of advertising. And if you're not an ad spend agency like I did mine organically

Ben: Yeah.

Robert Martin: Nope. This is just my number one cost is how do I keep all this together? I am decent enough with Excel on my own and with the U use of AI to assist me in figuring out certain formulas, automations, reminders. I built a small U. I literally just got into the process of building my own a little bit just to make my job easier. It shows me a breakdown by state of every single policy I've sold by renewal date. Of each month of which months are my busier months. It's and this is all done through a spreadsheet right now. It l automatically highlights when they're like five days out from renewal, especially the ones that need more. I can flag this one needs like more physical work. Certain carriers auto renew really smoothly and I I almost have to do nothing there. ⁓ But no, I ended up choosing to build because it was like to the independent agent, yeah.

Ben: Do you use a s- Sorry, yeah, there's a bit of delay. Do you use any CRMs or anything like that?

Robert Martin: I used a couple different ones that I tried and I found once again, CRM and AMS side, it was easier just to build in the small agency. If I when I get to a certain budget in my brain, I s kind of just set a a mile marker of I either want to have a thousand active policies or I want to be making ⁓ north of like two million premium enforced. At that point, I would build out there, but I'd be building out for the employee I want to hire more than myself. I don't enjoy how it is how most of these work. And unless I find that perfect program that will literally be anything I want whenever I need it kind of thing, I would eventually, yeah, I'd probably I did the math in my head. I was like, Yeah, I'd go buy like mo ⁓ what if I go with momentum, it's pricier. ⁓ they're really nice on their tech package size, but Like I respect the fact that they're efficient, but their price mark is higher. Or I can do Hawksoft. I I love that Hawksoft works. I don't know why this has always been the way I describe people. It's a very efficient piece of software. It still reminds me of a public library computer for some reason from like the early 2000s with the drop-downs and their UI. I mean that in the nicest way possible. It's efficient. It just, it's

Ben: Hahaha

Robert Martin: I will get it if I have an employee I need to make their job easier. But at the agent level, a lot of them they feel built for the service employee more than for the independent scratch agency founder. And I think that's a consistent problem among all of them so far. But there's some great software, there's some great pieces, they all have great functionality. If there's a personal problem you're finding they can solve, for sure. But I was able to do all of it on.

Ben: course.

Robert Martin: A spreadsheet. I never had endorsements get missed. I never had renewals fall through the cracks. the only area I can admit I I struggled a little with was following up on leads I didn't close. But I had enough new volume that I was never s sitting there really sweating over, ⁓ well, I didn't close him last year. Should I follow up again this year? I always had enough new volume, it never was it was not that. of a matter.

Ben: ⁓ Awesome, I think those were all my questions, Robert. Thank you so much for joining the podcast.

Robert Martin: You're welcome. I'm glad to have given my my two cents. I hope it's helpful and I hope you have some lovely back end pieces to make everything sound better because I apologize for the delay. I'm not sure if it's my connection or yours there, but it's I've not tried to interrupt you. I do apologize.

Ben: It's so good. No, same here. Was there anything in particular you still wanted to cover? I think you messaged saying you also had some thoughts.

Robert Martin: Yeah, ⁓ so pr ⁓ can we do this can we stop recording?