JJ Vittoria: I was always interested in fragrance. I had a lot of friends and family in the business. And as you guys know, it's it's a small industry. It's it's there's once you know s a few people, you know a lot of people. and so I got to meet some of these perfumers as a as a kid, I would get these like samples from the lab. And so that was, you know, kinda got me into it early on and I got exposure to that side of things, the lab side of things, the perfumer side of things, where they're creating these fragrances in these studios. And that was always super interesting to me. And that was I thought very different from I think the retail side of fragrance, the way that most people interact with fragrance. And the way that I interacted with fragrance, being also a consumer

Michelle DeLorenzo: JJ, thank you so much for joining us today. So for those who don't know, JJ is the founder of Olfactory NYC. For those who may not have heard about it, can you tell us a little bit about it?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, so at Old Factory NYC, our whole idea is to make high quality luxury fragrance in an accessible, fun, and interactive way. And the way that we do that is through this customization process that we're known for, where we start with one of our core fragrances and then you build upon that with various accords. So you get a fragrance that's tailored to you.

Josh: looking at kind of the foundations of All Factory NYC, what felt broken to you about the fragrance industry and made you decide to to actually start the company?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, so you know, fragrance, as you guys know, I mean, for for for many years, fragrance was dominated by these designer brands. In the last, you know, in the in the sort of two thousands, you got a lot of these niche brands coming along, which were really fragrance focused for once, 'cause designer brands, you know, fragrance was that kind of like ancillary product to a bigger fashion business, you know, Dior, Chanel, that kind of thing. And then you know, you get in the in the 2000s, you get these brands that are fragrance first Lalabo, Byrado, Diptyque, these things where it's really about the fragrance, which was awesome. the only thing was for me that I felt was a lot of those brands were catering to one kind of customer. they're all quite expensive. you had to be you also had to be willing to spend quite a bit of money.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: And so they weren't really a good sort of like gateway drug to fragrance as an art that I thought, you know, was missing out there. so what we set out to do at all factory was to create something that was really fun, accessible, that wasn't intimidating, that was able to sort of invite a different kind of customer, a new generation of fragrance I wouldn't say lovers, fragrance sort of people who are sort of interested in fragrance. and sort of bring them into the world of fragrance and hopefully introduce them to the art of fragrance and then you know eventually they'll go on and and keep shopping with us or go to other places, go to stealth, places where they can sort of really dive into fragrance and the sort of deeper ends of fragrance. So that's that was kind of the idea of all factory is like this is there's not enough ways in to experience this product in this art form in a way that felt like the the stakes were low.

Michelle DeLorenzo: I think it's a really, a really great concept. And I I think there's lots of fragrance enthusiasts out there that we all come to some point where we're like, what if I made my own fragrance? And it's an incredibly like high bar of entry into making your own fragrance. So I I love the idea that people can get the experience of, you know, smelling ingredients, smelling accords, and trying to put things together to see how they blend. I think it's a great, like, hey, this is. It's a great introduction into this world for people. Do you do you think that you do you think you set out to disrupt or to fix your own experience in fragrance?

JJ Vittoria: You know, it's it's it's sort of interesting one. I don't I don't you know, I always like fragrance. And I when I go into a like a Frederick Mal or or I mean I maybe I should be saying specific brands. If I go into like any sort of high end fragrance brand, I don't feel like necessarily intimidated because I know some of this stuff. I don't feel like the ingredients and, you know, the sort of

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: the kind of theater of it all is is super intimidating. But I know people who do. And I felt that people I would be sh with would find that like quite hard to access. So for our perspective, like it's not just accessible from a price perspective, we're definitely a little bit we're definitely cheaper than than than most fragrances from from a price perspective. But we're also just like with the accessibility is also to act that access to the world of perfumery, which I think was just is just harder to get into. So when you say disrupt or fix,

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: You know, I think that like it was just trying to offer a different angle. Like how can we how can I get more people interested in this thing that I'm interested in, in a way that will be more accessible for them?

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I think that's really important because I think the I know for myself when I kind of left the world of like my designer and my easily accessible fragrances and started getting into the niche and the indie and the obscure, it was very intimidating to go into certain stores. Like I remember my first time going into Bergdorf Goodman to smell fragrances and feeling completely out of place and not knowing the lingo and feeling like I was gonna be pushed into something. And I look back on that now and I'm like, you know, that's you're being silly. But it's definitely it's intimidating, especially if you're you know, these are big ticket items for some in some cases. And it's not especially in our economy at the moment, these are big decisions for people. It may seem small to some, but they it's it's it's a lot. So I think having that accessibility and having that experience is so important for people who are learning and looking to become part. Of this community too.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and and you know, I I would say too that because fragrance is not a visual product, at least the actual product isn't. you know, it's it's something that you have to experience. People don't I feel like, you know, and having having interacted with a lot of customers over the years, people don't feel I think the confidence of knowing what it is that they love without the input of other people or without the kind of and then, you know, if you if you're doing it

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: If you're coming going into a you bug bug box or something like that, like you've got a sales associate, so like are they really do they really have your best interests that you know, you're kinda like you're kind of going into this world and you're trying to make a decision. It's not like feeling cashmere and saying that's really soft. You're like smelling, you know, some vetiver or something. You're like, what what even is Vetiva? I don't even like and you're trying to like be and and so it's a lot to take in, I think. And so that was always the sort of impetus.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: Behind us is how do we get that customer? Because there is that customer. In other countries, you know, fragrance is a little bit more of a a broader, broadly used product. And we felt like there was that and it was just total theory, right? But like, and we did some customer analysis, but those are theories like there is people who want who are interested in this, but they just it feels like too much work to kind of really to really get over that hump and really get into it.

Josh: Yeah, I think we've talked quite a bit with with some of our other guests about, especially in the luxury space, whether it's a designer fragrance or like a luxury niche house, there is kind of this exclusionary border that they keep. And that's that's part of their mystique. It's part of their brand. but in a world where this is an art form, it's your fifth sense, you know, you you want to have something where people can get at least get their foot in the door and and not feel so intimidated.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I mean, you know, and that and as you say, like it's great for some and it works well and you know, I I think of it like there's a lot of incredible art in the Louvre. in but that doesn't mean there's not space for, you know, a MoMA or something that's like trying to just bring a different kind of person who's into something who's trying to try to get access in a different way and is into a different way of presenting the product. You know, I I I just think that it's like it's just if yeah, it's for different people, you know, that that that that want to experience it.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I think you this is totally going off on a on a tangent and not off script, but I think you mentioned something in there too about, you know, going into a store and kind of almost like chasing the hype of like what you've heard of, what you've seen before, what you've seen people talking about, versus an experience of going to old factory NYC where you have to learn how to trust your own nose and build, you know, your taste.

Josh: Yeah.

Michelle DeLorenzo: I think it's a really important part of anybody's fragrance journey to start learning what they like. And I think this offers a really great opportunity for people to do that as well.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I mean, well, I will say this though, just as kinda like a counterpoint. Ninety five to ninety-five plus percent of our customers are coming in groups. So very rarely people are coming in and doing it on their own. and that might just be again part of the reason like fragrance, right? You want to have it's actually much more of an experiential product, a group experiential product than I ever thought it was.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Love that. Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: but for us it really is. People are developing that taste together, they're smelling things on each other. If your best friend likes the way it smells on you or your partner, that can really impact what you like. Cause ultimately what you know you're wearing fragrance partly for the way it smells on you, but you also want when people smell you, other people who are smelling you to like it too. It's not like it's it's and that's where it's also different from like clothes because, you know, or skincare something like what I buy, you know, needs to feel good on me. and and how it affects others is less is less important I think than than than fragrance is. so I don't know if that analogy is quite right with clothes because obviously there's you know you want other people to like the way you look but but you know there are other personal products which really, really only matter to you. fragrance, I think, you know, we all say, well if it I if I like it, I like it. Like who cares about other people? But fragrance, you don't want people to walk past you and not like you want people to like the way you smell. You want it either for attraction reasons

Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: or for whatever else you want you want other people to like it. And so that's what people are doing. People are coming to the factory and see they're coming in groups, they're coming in pair in pairs, date nights, that of thing. where you know you're you're you're getting something for yourself, but you're also very much involved in the creation for some for the person you're with as well.

Josh: a few previous interviews that I was reading up on, you've spoken about how removing packaging, branding, markups, things like that really allowed you to kind of hit that accessible price point. to educate the viewers a little bit more, can you explain kind of the model of All Factory?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I mean, you know, as any as you guys probably know, I'm sure, I mean, fragrance is pretty the the the sort of product level margins are pretty high in the sense that and also just like what you're paying for, what goes into the the actual juice itself is a very, very small part of what you're actually buying. And it's worth kind of thinking. I mean I It's it's all it was almost kind of ridiculous, right? Like no I I can't think of any other product where the actual part you're actually using is so small in terms of the cost compared to the just the packaging of itself. And I always just found that crazy. And it's not really in vogue now. Like you know, nowadays packaging is just like everyone talks about packaging, but it's so important. people want to have beautiful products and I get it. For us though, you know, the focus was always on the juice.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: How can we have the best fragrance of stuff you actually wear? Packaging with most of it, half of it is gonna end up in the trash. We wanted to make, we wanted to focus on that. And then, you know, what can we do? What trade-offs can we make? We don't want to have bad packaging, we want to have good packaging, but but that's where the trade-offs can can happen. So how can we save on on on that? Also, you know, brands pay for bottling services. Well, if you're bottling them on site when you're making them, you don't, you know, that's it's kind of wrapped in. So so there are all these little things where you can kind of strip out some of those costs. We also use a lot of s the same bottle at least across all, you know, you can make all different fragrances, but it's the same bottle. So we look for ways in which you can we can streamline that. So I think because that's where brands get stuck is high MOQs, you know, you you're you've got these you you wanna do all these different SKUs and fra but but like you know you've you can't because you've got different or at a different stage you've got to be paying for things. So by kind of somewhat vertically integrating at least within these these stores, you're able to you're able to to to get rid of some of that. you know, and that I I think without getting too into it, I hope that like in terms of the model that helps. Also the thing is, you know, with us obviously when you come in you're paying for an experience as well. So it's also the person's time you're paying for to to help you, which You know, isn't that different I guess for if you spend a lot of time in a fragrance store they they have sales associates too, but w with us it's really kind of a one on one it's well it's a it's a you know, a personal experience. So that's definitely a high cost for us.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. so you've worked with several quite prolific perfumers. where do we credit them versus where we credit the customer?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I mean, you know, these are still very much fragrances designed by the perfumer. and then they're tailored by you. So in the same way, like if you go to a if you go to a tailor, you go to you get a suit tailor or something like that, like that'd be a suitable kick dress, whatever. If you're getting if you're going to a tailor, you know, it's still you know, it's still Dolce Gabbana making the suit, but then you get it tailored and made to you, and you've now got something that really fits you, even though it the fabric or whatever was made by. you know, world-class designer. And that's probably gonna be a better suit than something that you if you were to make the fabric, right? Like, you know, by yourself. So so so I think that's where we are. Like we feel like our customization process, yes, it's not fully custom, but like as in you're not building from scratch, but we could do that. But it I we we think that you wouldn't end up with such a great fragrance at the end of it if you did do that. While the experience may or may may be more to your preference. Pla they are places you you can make you know full custom fragrances, you can work with someone to do that. Often it's you know quite expensive, but you can do that. but it's just not what we're going for. Which we we ri and the model, to you know to your previous question, like it kind of depends on you loving the fragrance and wanting to get it again. we can't really like if if everyone's just coming in and buying once, that'll be tough for us because we because we are do we we are going for this accessible price point and trying to do really high quality at a low price point, we

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: We do want people to love the fragrance. We want them to really get attached to it and keep coming back for it. And I think if you focus too much on just the building of it and you're building it, you know, it's kind of like you make the scent, but then, you know, do you are you really gonna wanna get it again and are you gonna use it all? So I and maybe I'm I could be completely wrong by the way, but I just that was kind of the way that we approached it.

Michelle DeLorenzo: I think what a great way to make a signature scent or or find a signature scent to tailor something for yourself. You know, I think it's we don't often think of signature scents as we're both collectors and and are constantly trying new things. But I think a great majority of people who wear fragrance probably are signature fragrance folks. So I think, you know, for anybody who's looking to smell different, but maybe not buy. Three hundred bottles of perfume. Customizing your own fragrance gives you that outlet.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's you know, but but we also people who customize multiple, you know, it's di for different times of the year. I think that it's or whenever or whatever. I mean, you know, you can obviously, you know, you as someone who has that many fragrances, I'm sure you wear them for different times you know, I think that it's it's just part of, you know, figuring as I say, it's kind of a journey, right? People people, you know, they smell one thing, they like it for a little bit, then they think, Okay, how can I change this? How can I build on this? How can I get something that's

Josh: Yeah.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

JJ Vittoria: kind of along the same lines or I want to keep that ingredient but change something else. So I think that yeah, it's a fragrance is always a journey. You're always learning new things about the things you like. You're discovering new ingredients and new perfumes you like. And so yeah, I think that we just like like to be a part of that.

Josh: Yeah, I liked your the analogy of like the tailor and the suit because the I was reading through actually just today some of the different it's like 17 base fragrances in your your core lineup, and they're made by a variety of really prolific perfumers, including like Frank Vogel, who did the very extremely well known Santal thirty three. so there is this basis where like People who maybe are somewhat familiar with fragrance know that they're getting something that is still very good quality. there are a lot of these kinds of workshops that exist. and some of them feel a bit loose in like what what is this? Where are these accords from? Did you make these in your kitchen? And this is like a very that guided customization of something that you know has been tested and is balanced and is ready.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

Josh: To to be blended.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and also I just say like and spotlighting the perfumer. I mean, these guys are amazing artists who train for years and years. you know, you might be a very you might be a talented amateur perfumer. Not you guys, but but the customer might be but the but you're not gonna you're realistically not gonna stand up then and and you know, we wanna respect that. We wanna respect the art that goes into the time and the training that goes into this, and the beautiful creations that they can come up with. and you listed and you and you mentioned one there.

Josh: Whomever. Yeah.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

JJ Vittoria: and all of our perfumers have created awesome fragrances for loads of designer brands, niche brands, and and they're really and they are really amazing artists. And so definitely part huge part of our brand is is spotlighting those. We would never want to take away from that. I think for us, it's it's you know, when when when when a brand goes to a perfumer and they want to make a fragrance, the perfumer comes up with A bunch of different iterations. They go back and forth. The brand tries and as you know, like so they they try all these different versions anyway. and then what ends up happening is someone in the brand, maybe someone who's an evaluator or a marketer, whatever, they picked the favorite one, and that's the one that that that ends up on the shelf, and that's the one that's for everyone. But all those other ones that ended up on the cutting room floor, those are still great fragrances. And those ones, one of those might have been better for you. and and I and so what we're doing really in the way. It's kind of just rewinding that process. The perfume is still coming up with all these different stuff. We're still trying all these different things. But then we're saying leaving the last step up to the customer to and and our team on site to sort of find the perfect scent for you specifically.

Josh: Yeah. And can you talk to us a little bit about how the perfumers approached creating these different elements? because like you said, it's a it's a little different than creating a full composition.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah. Yeah. so yeah, I mean that was like that when we when we when we and we talk the perfumers, we have back and forth and dialogue, that's always in the the understanding is right. How do we what what we really like this scent, but how does it interact with other accords? How can you build on it? How can you play with it? and if you can't, then how can we like take elements of it so that it can be So that so that we can sort of start with a different kind of bass or that can be built up. I will say, you know, our sense, you know, they can be b on their own, they're fine. So that's just like what as I say, like that's one version, the core scent on its own. And the accords are the things you can add to it, all the different ways, those are those things that end up on the cutting room floor. But they're not necessarily the the the sense itself, the core scent on its own might be the perfect one for you. so that so it's it's sort of a dual mandate for the perfumer, like. You gotta make a really great fragrance, but also think of the different ways in which it can be other things can be added to it to make it perfect for someone else. so it's definitely a lot of back and forth in that s in that sense. And we also wanna have a lineup at any given time that generally covers the spectrum of fragrances. So you mentioned 17 cores, but at any given time we only have like, you know, nine to twelve, and we wanted to make sure that it covers the general spectrum of fragrance so anyone who comes in can kind of like find something along the lines of what they're looking for. So yeah, there's there's there's push and pull. I mean it's it's it's a it's a lot of but again, but focusing on the juice, that's what it's all about. Like so all the time we spend on that, we're not spending on, you know, you know, some beautiful heavy weighted brass cap or something like that. Right. So that's for us, you know, we've we've had the same we have a nice cap, but it's the same one we've always had. So it's there's that that's kind of where we can sort of save on things. It's it's it's

Michelle DeLorenzo: No.

JJ Vittoria: is sort of building on really f drilling down into the into the fragrance.

Michelle DeLorenzo: I love the I love the juice first mentality. And it sounds like it's a a really maybe a fun challenge for your perfumers as well. I I do want to say I like the way you showcase in the stores because I know you have you have images of the perfumers with the bases as well in the stores. Is that correct? I I love seeing that because I love seeing perfumers, you know, get their their credit where their credit is due. So kudos for that.

JJ Vittoria: I was I I to be honest, it was one of the weird things I thought was so weird at the beginning of this brand. Like I it was so weird to me that you had all these what other what other product is there where you know, what other what other art is there that like you know, you don't know who the maker is, who the artist is behind it? I mean, you know, painters, musicians, like

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

JJ Vittoria: There's always the credit there. And with fragrance, it's just a strange industry where they're behind this sort of corporate wall. They don't really get the exposure. Brands do brands do some do a good job of like putting it out there. but but I was always so surprised. And so we felt like, why wouldn't we sort of sing the your shallows from the rooftops? you know, the the the favorite cut, like I once had this customer who came in and said, like, I've got I think it was like Ilias. I mean, it's I love everything he's created. And like they knew like his lineup. I like, that never happens. Like you never know what you know, you you mentioned Frank Google, but like people won't know all the sense that he's created, like generally. But you know, I think that yeah, you know, it's a conversation starter and it hopes people hopefully people will start to sort of look these people up and say, I I really love all the things that this person's made and

Josh: we we had a conversation with Michael Nordstrand, who's a perfumer and works for several brands and things like that. And he he had a really great analogy where he was like, you know, you don't have people walk into a bookstore and reference, you know, we want Lord of the Rings by the publisher and never mention Tolkien in the conversation. So why aren't we talking about the authors of the that are underneath here? and it's such a good vehicle to discovery. That was actually the name of the episode with Michael.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

Josh: where yeah, if someone comes in and they're exploring and they're like, you know, Hunter, it really works for me. I love the way this sits and it's by Ilias, they can go and explore some of their other works and and they might just love the way they do perfume.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and sometimes there sometimes there are themes. Like some it's not I'm not that good at this, but like there are times when you smell something and you're like, Is was that made by, you know, Ilya, was that made by Frank? Like I feel like there's something there and I don't know. I don't know if that's the case, to be honest with you, but but but you sometimes you there they do have certain techniques. we have a scent cam that's made by Frank, and like you can kind of get like a bit of that sort of Santal vibe at the one. And there's also like he also made the Glossier U scent. And sometimes like when I smell it, I get a little bit that as well. And so, you know, I I there's some they're just elements. They have some sort of like Easter egg sometimes.

Michelle DeLorenzo: do you think your customers that are coming in, do you think they're people who are looking to create or people that are looking to connect?

JJ Vittoria: I think I g I it's a cop out, but I'd say both. I mean, people who are looking to I think that people are looking to connect with each other in a different way. As I say, we get so many people who come in on a date night. We get a lot of people who come in where it's clearly one person who booked the appointment and wants to like do this. And then these are the other person, usually a couple, there's the other partner who's Who's kind of like, like, I don't know, is really this for me. And then it's them, it's that second person who is so into it by the end of it, who like won't leave, who's like obsessed with it, and is like keeps asking questions and is trying to smell new things. And the person who booked the appointment is like, okay, cool, like I think we've ready to go now. Like, and so it's it's so you you it builds this connection between people, fragrance generally. and you're sure you see it like still all the time. Like people come in, they smell things and like they talk to each other, and it just creates these conversations, which is just

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Mm.

JJ Vittoria: fascinating and I think it's what makes working at art stores from what I hear as well. Like from the peop from the start, they they just love it. Like they love engaging. They love talking about fragrance in different ways. And people sell it sa say, that smells like that smells like like cotton candy and charcoal. Do you know what I mean? Do you do do you know do you know what I mean? And and that kind of effect that people and they're like, gosh, yeah, like we yeah, I get that now. Like and so this is kind of like it kind of creates these these these amazing moments of connection.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

JJ Vittoria: through the creative process. that I think is just it's awesome for me to watch. It's it's a really great thing to be a part of and to experience.

Josh: yeah, I really love that experiential part of it. I think is so important. Because you mentioned this earlier. People want some kind of validation of their fragrance when they're in that like vulnerable spot of did I do this right? Do I want to purchase this? Do I want to wear this? And I've been to a few like fragrance releases where there's fifteen strangers and by the end of the night we're all shoving our wrists up to each other's faces, saying, isn't this one so good? How do you think this one is on me?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and then then just because of the way, you know, it smells different on different people. So, you know, we get this yeah, people are like smell it smells great and then then they then you know then they're they're with their mom and they they put it on their mom and they're like, it smells terrible. Like, why why why does it, you know, and and so it's kind of like it's that sort of it's those moments of sort of exclamation, you know, delight, but also c surprise. And you know, it's what creates that kind of like mem that memory. And then, you know, as your fragrance is so associative, you smell that fragrance in the future and it reminds you of that those moments, that time, that time spent together, those moments of connection, that experience, that part of your trip, that was that was special. And and and so I think that that's that's what we love being a part of. And that's what I love whenever you know, whenever I whenever I go to space, whenever I go to a any fragrance store, you know, I I will smell that fragrance again, it'll take me back to that that time. And I think that that's a you know, that I think that's really valuable.

Josh: do you feel like at the end of the day, you mentioned like the the excitement of the people that just attended, not necessarily the person who booked it? Do you think the people are are really coming there for the scent, whether it be the fragrance or the body wash or the lotion? You have multiple products, lines, or is it the experience they have of this tailoring and feeling like this is mine?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I mean I think that they come for the experience, right? They're there for the experience. I think to me, and what was kind of by design, is the you know, that they leave with a product that is great. And so but that's sort of a surprise. Like I think a lot of people will pr and I don't know this, but I assume a lot of people come, they make a set and they think, that was fun and like I have this thing to remember it by, but they don't necessarily like think it's gonna be their every day set. But then it surprises them. And we see this in like you know reviews all the time. It's like, I just thought that this was going to be a fun day out. And now I have this scent that I'm aware for the rest of my life. Hopefully it's the rest of the life. But they say that anyway. So and so like that's that's you know, they that's that's kind of like I think the cool thing about it is that and that's because fragrance, like so many of our customers, I think what makes us different from a lot of brands is in fragrance, is that so many of our customers are not fragrance lovers to start.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: that we're not we could do frankly a better job of getting more fragrance lovers. I mean I'm a fragrance lover so I would love to have more people who come in as like super fragrance obsessives. I think that fragrance obsessives see us and think, you know, it's a cheaper product, probably not for me. Like I'm gonna stick to, you know, what I know, which is like, you know, really expensive fragrances. And like, you know, I think that I think we can be that for them. two, but when we're not right now because I think that it's a lot it's because of the way the brand is positioned. and I think we've got to do a better job of appealing to to that group. Sorry, I didn't think that answered your question at all, but w but it was a question

Josh: I thought it was a great answer though.

Michelle DeLorenzo: No, I think it's a really great answer. We'd love to help you brainstorm some ideas on how you can get some of us major f cent nerds in there.

JJ Vittoria: Right. Yeah, it's always been a struggle. I think look at the price is one thing, right? You want to make something accessible. But then if you do that in fragrance, like there's that kind of like sort of opposite effect of that, where if you and I forget the name of it in economics, but there's something where like, you know, if you if you price something higher, then obviously people are gonna think that it's it's better quality just just generally. And so, you know, we we struggle with that. It's in in I think it's different in fragrance than than other products where you can have affordable luxury.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: where the where the quality is very provable. you know, if you buy a thirty dollar cashmere sweater, I keep saying cashmere, but if you buy a thirty dollar card, you're like, okay, this is good value. whereas fragrance, if it's good value, you think, you know, is it good value or are they just using cheap stuff? Like is this and so and so and so that's the that's a challenge for us as a brand to sort of, yeah, to sort of make to to sort of bridge that and and and convince people that, you know, this is yeah, this is great stuff. And the perfumers are a big part of that. But

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

JJ Vittoria: But yeah, I think it's it's a challenge for any sort of brand but that in our kind of price point that's trying to like be like really great value.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I there's definitely there's definitely a tension and a sort of elitism, I think, in the fragrance space where, you know, people have this this preconceived notion that just because something is more expensive means that it's automatically a higher quality, not taking into account all of the things that you said about packaging and how much of that cost actually goes to packaging and how much goes to marketing versus how much is actually invested in the juice itself. And I'm a very juice-first person. I I can look past A I have some bottles in my collection that I know Josh would never even pick up because they're so horrendously ugly, but they smell incredible. And that's what means the most to me at the end of the day. And I I think there's a shift happening in the fragrance space because I think people are starting to realize that. But there's still there's still a divide amongst people who like different kinds of scents. You know, you have your People who are obsessed with fortable, people who are obsessed with indie, people who are obsessed with niche, and then your group that doesn't care as long as it smells good. I want to smell it.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, yeah, and it's also it's also just like total interpretive too. I mean, you can have, you know, I bought stuff that's like cheap, but that may or not may or may not be great like ingredients-wise, but like smells great on me. so you know, and that you know, I don't know if it's it's for so yeah, it's a tough one. It's a tough one to yeah, that sort of provability of the of the quality. So yeah, I mean the experience is for us was always that kind of like how do we get people into that top of that funnel? How do we get people through the door? and then hopefully the product will speak for itself after the fact.

Josh: Yeah. I mean, coming from a we and I would venture to say almost all of our audience are all fragrance obsessed freaks. shocking to no one. But there is that element of I think both the community piece and but also that trying your hand at it. As Michi said earlier, how many of us as the audience knows I'm on a longstanding path to find my perfect coffee perfume? How many of us have that elusive scent that we want and can't quite grasp? What yes, old factory MYC is kind of positioning itself as the the doorway to get people into the art form, but also for those of us that have multiple bottles in our collection, we get to go and tailor something and experience accords and pieces and that creative piece is still missing for a lot of us in in the collecting space. I think it's just as interesting and fun there.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean and and that's the thing. It's like, you know, and look, I should you know, we've had a lot of people who've really heard fragrance who love coming in. It's kind of like it's daunting for I think some of the for the people who work at there 'cause they're like they're like, Okay, now now I feel like we're on the same you're on the same level and I I don't know how do how do we sort of and and and that's but but you it's great 'cause then you can kind of have a really kind of fun conversation back and forth and you know, yeah, I mean you can have you can find all sorts of cool stuff with us. I mean we do The a little bit of the downside of being a brand that, you know, has a lot of sort of newbies coming in is that our most popular accords, the most popular sort of blends and and directions people go are kind of in those kind of more classic directions. So we have all this side of the library that people don't really touch. It's kind of like like in like Beauty and the Beast, like that library that's like behind all the cobwebs and stuff. That's like we have all these cool fragrances that people don't really get into because it's a little too niche.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: and that's when the fragrance lovers, those are the fit those are the the stuff that gets you know that they that gets brought out that they sort of end up discovering. So there's plenty of room for that, in in in in what we do. yeah, I mean we and we and we love it. Yeah, we love kinda like getting into sort of more sort of niche notes and you know, f definitely could help you find a new a coffee fragrance. we could It's but you know, as you know, coffee's not a popular it's not a super popular it's getting more by the way. It's getting more, I think, in five times what we said. But it's not a super popular note for fragrance. And so, you know, yeah, I mean like you're you're sort of you're you're more limited. whereas like gourmands, you it's just egg, so many gourmands there everyone's you know and we've got great gourmands, but it's like everyone's sort of going in that direction.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Yeah. When I come in I want to see your weirdest accords. I wanna smell the ones that nobody ever wants to put in their fragrance.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, yeah, we got some good ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, no, I mean y yeah. I mean it's it's

Josh: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: there's some there's some fun ones. you know, but look at the end of the day we as I say, we wanna make sure that you're guided the way a guided process works is we wanna make sure you pick something that you're gonna like. And so often people the the staff will like try and push you in a certain direction just because they want you to like they want you to like it. They they're gonna and so they don't want you to pick something that's completely off the wall. But you can always like if you directly request it, they're gonna give it to

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Yeah. I also think with, you know, you have ten locations now. Is that correct? I also think of it as a great, I when I travel, I really, you know, and j Josh is the same. I like to buy a fragrance from wherever I'm going as sort of like a remembrance of of where I'm going. However, I think the kind of scents that I like are now starting to become so readily available that it's almost difficult to find something that's special to an individual place. But I like the idea of being able to maybe go into an old factory NYC when I'm visiting, say, you know, Texas or or Philly and making a scent that specifically reminds me of that trip and having that scent memory for myself instead.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I think as yeah, I think scent is just so associative. It's such a cool part of fragrance. we you know, something that we do a lot more of these days is like these you know, bridal fragrances and wedding experiences because people will then smell it and then get taken back to that moment. so you know, for for obviously special occasions mo for a lot of people that that's a wedding day. But you know, it could be a trip. You know, we get people, you know, because obviously you can name your fragrance as well for us. So people name their scents, you know, mostly after these, you know, NYC twenty twenty five or whatever. And and it kind of like represents the that time for them. and that's great. That's it's really cool for us to to be part of that, obviously. but I think that, yeah, I think until you sort of have experienced that, until you've bought a fragrance somewhere where you're going, you don't realize, yeah, you don't realize how like the every time you spray it after you'll just be immediately transported back to that. I've got we there's a brand DS and Doug, I'm sure you're familiar with, and they they say like I think their slogan is like perfume is armchair travel. I love that. It's so true. it it's like it it it it you smell something it just immediately transports you if you if you're familiar with it, right? So like, you know, you c if you've been to the sort of Middle East and you get those whiffs of those ouds and things like just saffrons. It just like really

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: puts you in that place. and you can and yeah, you can kind of manufacture that yourself if you do that on a on a journey you're taking or or or a time or an occasion that you're you're part of.

Josh: Yeah. One of the things that I think really sets All Factory NYC apart from some of the other kind of blend your own studio kind of setups is you also offer an at home method that allows an even greater level of accessibility. If someone's not near one of your locations, they can still kind of experience and and explore that. I kudos on creating that, but also how did that idea develop? 'Cause that's pretty complicated.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and complexity is definitely sometimes a problem for it. but like it I mean I i it came about in COVID, because we at that time had one store, one lonely store on on in in in New York at the time, and things were looking a little dire back then, in terms of, you know, are we get we were so young at the time, we were, you know, a year or two old and it was how are we gonna how are we gonna continue this? How are we gonna keep the this you know customization alive when you can't go to and we didn't you know remember by the time you didn't know whether it was ever gonna happen again. So created this thing, this this at home experience. And you know for me I really wanted to make sure it wasn't just like a quiz. which you know quizzes are getting maybe a bit better now with AI and stuff. Well I don't know maybe they are it but is is it really you know quizzes I didn't feel like the quizzes I took were really a great sort of way of representing what's actually gonna smell good on me. I think that and so I wanted to make sure that the way we did it was like through getting the scent on your skin, through s through smelling, through sampling. So it's kind of like it's a it's a it's a three-step process, but it mimics what happens in the in the store where you s you get a sample set of one of our of the core scents. you pick one of those and then with you don't need to send anything back, you can then get a with the you give credits and you can get basically just versions of that core scent in the next sample box. And you can do that a few different times and keep sort of sort of different versions, keep playing. and then eventually, you know, you you get credit towards a final bottle the same way and and then it gets made the same way, you know, it make in the store with your name and all that. So it's kind of like the sim similar way. It's just takes a little longer because it's it's steps. But the beauty of it is that you get to live with the scents. You get to play around. You get little samples of things that were a little bit like the scent that you ended up picking and you can maybe wear that at different times. And so you've got a built-in kind of layering fun aspect to it as well, where these are different samples. And then, you know, one of those other samples you might like that one better in another time. And so you can use you and you know that and you have that. Whereas when you come to the store, you kind of like, you know, you leave with the product there or you don't, but you don't have Yeah, you don't have that same sort of th those little samples. So I think that that's it's it's it's a different experience. It has it's in some ways it's not as it's you know, you don't have the same interactive level as the store, but you get other things there are other advantages instead, I guess.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, I can definitely see some of the some of the more fragrance obsessed folks enjoying that process as well. I know I like to wear something at least twice now before I like move forward with it. So I think having those samples is is definitely it's definitely a great way to to reach those people. so moving into you know, this making fragrance accessible. Do you think that In some ways it risks simplifying it.

JJ Vittoria: in terms of the customization process or like like the fact that it's not built from scratch. Yeah, I mean I I I I mean risk simplifying it, yeah, maybe, but I don't know if that's a bad thing. you know, I think fragrance can often it it can have a tendency to overcomplicate. because because as you say, it's got people who just you know people really get into it, they love it, and it's like

Michelle DeLorenzo: In general. Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: You know, nowadays, you know, you've got these like AI systems that are like making what was sort of quite complex for people and inaccessible for people, you know, coding and it's making it super easy, but you end up with a you can design and create things that you never would have been able to because you're not a coder. and you were and now you're able to do it super like with a couple of prompts on a screen and you're able to get to the same place that and and so so you know, sometimes I think like simplifying something that is complex is the outcome can be something that you that you would never would have been able to to to have before. So I think for a for this it's it's sort of a similar thing in the sense that we you know fragrance I think is yeah it it's it's it's often not by any other fault not the fault of anyone but it's just intimidating. It's intimidating. You know, you've got you've got three hundred fragrances, you know, that's

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: That's a lot to for for for for someone to think, okay, I you know, I need to buy three hundred fragrances and and smell these things and take this time to to really to really understand fragrance. It's like, well, you know, if you don't if you wanna just kinda dip your toes in, you wanna sort of if you have a little bit of interest, or we can help you, you know, we can help you get there.

Michelle DeLorenzo: I think I do think it there is a simplification there, but I think it's in a in a positive direction in that it's allowing allowing people to experience fragrance and connect with fragrance in a different way that they might not have have even thought possible before. I think it's I think it brings more people into the community because it lowers that bar for us. It lowers that that bar of entry.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and and and and I think going back to what I said before, with you know, you'll often have in a group of friends like that one person who's like really into fragrance. And everyone else is kinda like, you know, maybe they're into it a little bit or whatever. But like if you had something you really loved and you could bring some those other people into it in a way that like you knew that they would like it. But, you know, and and the outcome can be whatever, maybe they get into fragrance, maybe they don't, but at least your it's like your chance to like show them

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: some to show them a part of your world a little bit. And and we get that a lot. Like we get people who come in and they you know it's it's usually like you know it's usually like a daughter of a in a family of five and she brings in her siblings and her parents and like the rest of them are just there just to like sort of humor her. And then as I say, they end up really getting into it and really loving it. And and you know and the delight and the joy of that girl that made that appointment when she sees her family really into it.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

JJ Vittoria: it's a small thing, but it's just I think that that's it's just really cool.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. It's probably way less intimidating than Josh and I's approach of like meeting people and be like, Hey, smell my arm. Smell smell this. Take my samples.

JJ Vittoria: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Josh: you said like there's the one person in a friend group for now. mul multiple of my friends get are afflicted with perfume, whether they like it or not. They get a wardrobe, whether they initially wanted to explore it or not. but not everyone has, you know, someone like us. so this is such a good accessible point. I think another interesting thing from your perspective is what what are people looking for and wanting from perfume now?

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah. And that's great too, yeah.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah.

Josh: that they didn't ten years ago.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, you know, it's it's as you know, perfume has it's the popularity has grown incredibly. I'd love to say like we you know, we are the beneficiaries I think of like a wave of interest that wasn't really there when we started. You know, when I we opened in in right at the end of twenty seventeen. and you know, I think obviously a lot of it's to do with what happened in COVID. losing their sense of smell and and maybe valuing it more. I I don't even know. I mean I don't know. Do you guys have a theory on on on why the what's been the driver behind the growth of fragrance in the past sort of six or seven years?

Michelle DeLorenzo: think it's I think it's multiple things. I think it's social media, I think it's access, I think it's I think it's a pocket of joy for a lot of people right now. And I think that's why, you know, even though, you know, the economy is is absolutely frightening at times, but people are still coming in and they're still buying fragrance because it feels like an element of of control almost. I think it's for a lot of people it's feels like self care in a different way. I also think we're seeing a much larger spike in males who are interested in fragrance. And I think it's a way of for them to interact in this beauty space that maybe ten years ago didn't feel welcoming to them as well. So I think there's I think there's multiple factors happening there.

Josh: And my perspective I think leans back on on your reflection as well. I think COVID broke a lot of senses of community that maybe they weren't as strong as people thought they were. And now people really want connection. They want connection and they want expression. And commute perfume as an ecosystem and a community offer both of those.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, and I think that, you know, when you can bring people together as part of a shared experience where it's not exclusionary to anyone or any group, I think that that's that's definitely what, you know, has has changed. I think. So when I say when you say, you know, what what's changed with with fragrance, you know, I I I don't know if if we started this brand you know, fifteen years ago whether I would have been saying w whether I would have been saying that all of our customers are coming in groups. I think that people definitely, as you say, see it as a as a as a as a place as as a somewhere to build connection, somewhere to a an exp a shared experience in a way that maybe it it wasn't before and it's hard to remember like those what what you know, it's hard to remember now. But I think that that's bringing people together, having shared experiences, I think that COVID made those things so valuable. And then on top of that you've got the fact that like it was literally our set that one of our senses that was attacked in that moment and and and getting it back, I mean, allowed people to have maybe a new appreciation. for scent and and what scent is. I know a lot of people who during the COVID were buying discovery sets of fragrances to like see what scents they still and then I think probably in doing that learned like, you know what Patrilli was. I mean, you know, just to be like that's kind of like how these things work. so yeah, I mean I I I it's been all it's been an awesome ride. It's been great to see the way people what it's developed obviously, you know, the trends that that come and go. as you said, as I said before, you know, gourmonds being just the last like five years have just been just huge. Everyone wants more and more kind of edible things. And so what's driving that, I I don't know. And now people are saying it's like GLP ones that are driving this because you can't eat these things or you don't want to eat these things but you want to smell them. I don't know if I buy that 'cause the trend was happening way before that. But I don't know what you guys think.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I think everybody just wants to smell like a snack.

JJ Vittoria: Exactly. Exactly.

Josh: So typically as we move into kind of our closing ritual for the episodes, we we talk a little bit about like what are top of mind for for the company. And by all means, if there's anything you'd like to announce, please do. But I also want to take a minute to drill into like your collection as a fragrance person. what does JJ wear? What are you like?

JJ Vittoria: You know, people ask me this and it's so boring because it used to be like a lot I used to have like a lot of cool stuff. Like I was always buying various things from all the stores around. Like I would go to Telekologne and stock up and like Labo and and all and all and and you know, Scent Bar when it first came up. But nowadays I'm just tr testing stuff all the time. I also have like a a little baby at home and when I'm wearing a lot of fragrance, she s like doesn't love it. so so so I I so I'm now I'm I'm I wear fragrance a little more sparingly and I'm typically I'm you know got all these various just testers constantly of different things that I'm trying out. So I'm not able to really really tr the and the things I wear yeah mostly kind of unnamed things that we're testing out. So it's a bit of a boring answer to your question, but that's that's kinda where it is.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm. Mm. Yeah. Don't don't worry, as she as she gets older, she'll definitely steal your fragrances from you. My I've had to my my daughter is three now and I've had to start hiding my PR packages because she has been swiping my bottles and putting them in her purse before I can get to review them. So it's she'll she'll get on board eventually.

JJ Vittoria: Yeah exactly, yeah, yeah. She's got a very little nose right now, so I'm saying it's that 'cause she's got this tiny nose and I just don't think it can handle. Mm-hmm.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: That's great. I'm excited, yeah. No, I'm excited.

Josh: are there any exciting things coming for Olfactory NYC that you'd like to highlight here or kind of inform the the public about where they can reach you?

JJ Vittoria: Yeah, I mean, so, you know, for us, you know, something we've been we've been we've done recently and it's a little bit kind of along the lines of of of what we were speaking about earlier about appealing to a diff a a customer that is a little bit more, you know, fragrance, obsessive, a fraghead, although I hate that word, but but but you know that that like we you know we've recently been doing these sort of intents so you can like kind of juice your scent effectively and make it more like a sort of

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm.

Josh: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Parfound concentration, whereas before you were doing all sort of EDPs. and so that's a cool thing to do because you can now do that like, you know, if you like a scent but you and you wear it in the store and you're like, you know, worried that it you you well, you're someone who wants something typically wants things stronger or you, you know, want things to last a really long time, like you can you can do that to any of the customization. You can do that to any customized scent, you at the end of the process or later on. Like if you buy the scent, you're like, I love it, but it I feel like I'm it's not wearing like long enough on me, you know, you can you can be you know, you can get that too. So I think that's a that's sort of I think a cool thing we've done recently, that allows people to kind of take that extra step. that they weren't able to before. On the personalization side, we recently allowed you to also engrave your bottle if you're someone who's interested in that kind thing. so that's so just different ways and we're always looking for different ways to kind of make the experience, make the product, you know, better in any way that we can and sort of elevate the experience in different ways. And so it's just sort of parts of

Michelle DeLorenzo: When when somebody leaves olfactory NYC or when somebody completes their online at home kit, what do you hope lingers for them?

JJ Vittoria: I hope that they I hope they remember the the experience. Even in the at home experience, we what we learnt so much about the at home experience is that we thought that that was like people doing it alone because it's really for one person. Everyone is doing it in groups as well, like even at home, with this thing that's designed for one person where you can only get one it only comes with one fragrance. People are still doing it with each other and they're like having these moments of experience with each other, and this time it's like out of our view.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm.

JJ Vittoria: And we don't, you know, we're not a part of it in the same way, although we're trying to we're doing new things to be a part of it. That's actually another new thing we're doing as well. You can now do the second part virtually with a an associate. So you can kind of like do that from home as well. But that's but yeah, I mean I think it's it's those it's those moments together, it's those moments of connection, it's it's remembering the exper it's it's hopefully every time you smell you remember that experience, but also you wear it and you're you know getting compliments. That's the best thing, right? Like the amount of people we get, reviews say, like, I wear this every day and I get so many compliments, like that's what you wear fragrance for. A lot of people I mean, a lot of people wear fragrance because they want people to say, you smell amazing. And every time we do that, we're really pumped about it.

Michelle DeLorenzo: JJ, can you let the people know where they can find Of Factory NYZ?

JJ Vittoria: Well, you can find All Factory NYC in New York, Boston, DC, Dallas, Atlanta, Philadelphia, and Miami right now. Coming soon to Chicago and also online at allfactorynyc.com. And yeah, send us a note at hello at allfactorynyc.com. If you s if you say JJ in it, you'll it'll come straight to me. So if you want to ask me anything, you can also just address it to JJ and they'll follow me.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Thank you so much for joining us. Go ahead, Jack.

Josh: Yeah.

JJ Vittoria: Thank you. Thanks so much. It's been so fun. Hopefully, like I don't know if my microphone has my I don't know if the qual how the quality's been. Okay. And hopefully you've got a good editor because I know that I can ramble a little bit with this stuff.

Michelle DeLorenzo: You sounded great this whole episode. Yeah.

Josh: it's been great. Yeah.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha

Josh: Adam is great. yes, thank you everyone. I look forward to stopping by. I'm pretty close to Chicago, so that might be the location I get to. if you've enjoyed this episode, please consider liking, subscribing, commenting. It helps us reach new audiences. Yeah, thank you, and we will see you next time.

Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay, love you. Bye.