Josh: Alright Mishie. Finish the sentence. A great fragrance doesn't have to. Michelle DeLorenzo: Last twelve hours. Josh: I knew I loved perfume when Michelle DeLorenzo: Ooh. When I realized it could smell like a snack. Josh: I wish more brands would. Michelle DeLorenzo: Gift more PR to black women. Josh: I n I'll never understand why people Michelle DeLorenzo: Are obsessed with Ambermash. Josh: My most controversial fragrance opinion is Michelle DeLorenzo: Beast mode fragrances are trash. Are you sensing a theme here? There's a theme. Josh: All right. Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Is that it? Okay, Josh: That's all I got for ya. Michelle DeLorenzo: I love it. All right, okay, okay, my turn. A note I've changed my mind about the most is Josh: Vanilla. Michelle DeLorenzo: okay. The fragrance I recommend the most is Josh: Ghost of you by mythology. Michelle DeLorenzo: That that tracks. That's that's very accurate. The biggest misconception about niche perfume is Josh: That it's independent. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes, okay. Fragrance has taught me. Josh: not to go strictly by gut, but to spend time with things. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. And last, the future of perfume should Josh: Be of the people, by the people, for the people. Michelle DeLorenzo: Fuck yeah. Welcome everyone. So we have a kind of a different episode for us tonight. we decided that we were going to put out to all of you a ask me anything kind of scenario where you can get to know us a little bit more. Maybe it makes us feel a little less curated on the things that we want to talk about and and answer the things that you really want to hear from us. So I have a drink in hand. so I might get a little a little loose lipped on this. But yeah, welcome, welcome for this one. Josh: Yeah, I think we got some really good questions. And we'll dive right in. The first one is actually Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: for you. Michelle DeLorenzo: For me. Mm-hmm. Josh: so this is from Bell Knows Notes. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: Burning question for the fragrance files about you, Mishie. Have you considered Michelle DeLorenzo: Eee. Josh: crossing over into consultation or brand specific work in marketing or sales operations for one of the larger houses? Michelle DeLorenzo: So the short answer is yes. I've sort of over the past three years been and even further than that, I think I I've known that it's my time to leave the world of of education for quite some time now. But over the past year and a half, I've I I've really been dabbling on what the right place for me is. I'm not leaving Stell anytime soon. In fact, my role with Stell will be growing in the future. but you know, looking looking ahead 10, 20 years from now, I I think ideally my my dream job would be in possibly consulting, but there is a position and I'm blanking on the name of it right now. and it's sort of like the mediary between the perfumer. And the client. So when a brand goes to a perfumer of whether it be one of the big oil houses or an independent perfumer and gives them the brief on what they want, there is this, there's this middle person that is sort of the translator for both, right? So there are lots of people who want to start fragrance brands who don't necessarily know the lingo and might give you a big picture, but need help kind of reining it in. And also Perfumers can be a little bit on the they can be a little bit on the testy side. So there is that intermediary person that is that is making sure that is looking at it from an outside perspective to say, is this fragrance meeting your goals for what you're looking for? And is it also giving the perfumer creative freedom to make something truly special for you? So it's a fragrance evaluator. That's the name of the position. So a fragrance evaluator, I think, would be an absolute dream job for me. but From starting my content journey, I think the goal was never really to be a mega influencer. That's not really where I see myself. I am very happy with my smaller following because my audience is really engaged. And I'd rather have a really small, super engaged audience and be able to build my career offline than be, you know, the next, you know, mega, mega influencer. So Yeah, I mean the goal is definitely the goal is definitely eventually to move into fragrance full time. but yeah, we'll we'll we'll see where it goes. Josh: And I think maybe people don't know this, and if any brands are listening and are interested, you have done and are still willing to do product photography for brands on kind of a sliding scale based on what Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: they they need. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. So that's definitely it's in my wheelhouse and I'm actually talking with a brand right now. So it's an independent brand, who I really believe in their work. but they've been using AI in a lot of their their marketing images and in some of their product images now. And I said, Listen, I I really like what you're doing, but to me, these images are devaluing what you bring to the table. And they absolutely agreed. They're like, I hate using AI, I just don't feel like I have the resources to go above that. And, you know, I think when it comes to indie perfumers, I'm a little bit more forgiving and and not willing to just write them off. as I am, you know, a large brand that has the budget. I think for some people, especially in the indie space, it's hard. Like you're you're the only person doing this. You're asked to be the perfumer, the social media person, the, you know, shipping, ever it's all on you. So I a few years ago opened it up to brands that I'd be willing to do product photography for them. And I do truly only do it very seldomly now, just because my my schedule is insanely, insanely packed as it is. but you know, putting this out there to other brands as well, don't feel like you need to use AI because that feels like it's your only option. I am more than willing to do photos for you. I know other content creators who are amazing photographers who would also do it for you. you know, there's there's resources out there. And, you know, I think just just reach out to the people that you see creating and reach out for help because if you're if you're really true about this art form, I want your images and your your product marketing to match how how passionate you really are. Josh: I would say yeah, message to any small brand if you're lost and feel like you don't have access to marketing, to copy, to photography, to graphic design, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: reach out to the fragrance files. We know so many people can engage with Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: you. Michelle DeLorenzo: Professional copywriters, I mean videographers, so many people that are also huge fragrance heads that would be happy to help. So yeah. Hi Mishie and Josh. I'm a huge fan of the podcast. How do you and Josh balance supporting perfumers with avoiding overconsumption? This is a constant tension for me. I know I have far more fragrances than I can ever hope to use in a lifetime, but it's also really important to me to put my money where my mouth is and support the creators and brands that I love. Josh: I love this question. because I think it's Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: something we all struggle with a little bit. Once you start collecting fragrance, you very quickly Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: realize how much you have and how much it takes to use a single bottle. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: for me personally, there are kind of two main ways I can support brands. There are brands that I love and that I believe in that aren't for me. They don't have an offering that I would want on my shelf. And those are always brands that I want to hype online that I want to recommend to Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: others that I want people to explore. And that's a non-monetary praise and help. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: And then I'm fortunate enough to have a pretty healthy perfume budget. So if there is a brand I like, I'm gonna buy something from them. I also have no problem decluttering things. So it is not uncommon Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: for me to be like, I love this. Your roommate have it, your friend have it, you Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: know. Hey, Mishie, do you want to try this? And I'll just send her the bottle. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: Because the money that I spent to me is not about having a full bottle. It's about the joy of experiencing it and about like supporting a brand that I believe in. So even Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: if I don't keep it and use the whole bottle, I'm happy to have supported them. What about you? Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I am I'm very comfortable sharing a lot of my collection in that there is there's way more perfume here than I will ever use in lifetime as well. And you know, for so when friends ask me to try things, I'm more than happy to make decans and send it over to them. I don't always follow through in a very timely manner manner because ADHD, Josh: Okay. Michelle DeLorenzo: but I am always willing to decant anything from my collection to and you know, even for people who really want to try some of the more obscure things in my collection and samples may not be available. I am happy to share that. And I think sharing my collection has been one of the best ways, not only in building community, but in helping to spread the word because, you know, if if there's a product that you can sample, but a friend has it that you can smell, like you're helping that brand make a sale without, you know, without trying while also building those connections. And I think for me, I I also If there is if I can't afford to purchase something, I will repost, I will share, I will, I will use my platform as often as possible to support the people that, you know, especially the brands that I care about and the people that are I think are doing amazing things. Because I can't buy every bottle. I am very, very privileged and very lucky to get quite a lot of fragrances in PR. And I I'm somebody who doesn't believe in selling my PR, not against other people who do that, but I love to when I do get it, if it's not something I'm loving or if it's not something for me, I love to swap it with other friends as well. I will make my video, I will say if something is not for me, but this is the audience that it is for. but I think always just I think the key point in that is if you are somebody who is just a collector but not a content creator, is share, repost. Talk about it. Because even if you're not purchasing it, maybe amplifying somebody's voice is the way to get other people to purchase it. And you know, don't, don't, don't be against purchasing samples and decans if that's what's in your budget. You know, I I think we don't always need to have a full bottle of everything that we love. If I purchased every single full bottle of every fragrance that I liked, I would need an entire house to fit it all. Josh: Yeah, I am I'm a big fan now of travel sizes and and getting rid of of Michelle DeLorenzo: I Josh: bottles. Michelle DeLorenzo: okay, so here's my thing about travel sizes. I go into this like weird, like scarcity mindset when I have a travel size that I don't want to finish it. And then I kind of put it in a drawer and it kind of disappears and I forget about it. Josh: I have the opposite experience, which is why I find that so interesting. When I have a travel size and I do my full spray for a day and I see the dent, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna finish this in the week. Like Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Yeah. Josh: it's like I'm I'm completing the game. I'm like I'm doing the level. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I love when I can do that. So all right, so side question. What are some travels that you emptied that you knew you needed a full bottle of? Josh: so I've talked about it before on short form for sure, Cloak Musk by Sunt Trunk is like my work fragrance. And Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Josh: I've been through three or four travel sizes. Michelle DeLorenzo: wow. Josh: and I like to rebuy that travel size because it lives in my work bag, but I loved Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: it enough that I found I was going into my work bag to get out and spray. And that's when I was like, hmm, I need a bottle of this for my cabinet. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Yeah. I finally smelled Cloak Musk because we got Cent Trunk in Estelle. And I understand. It's actually one of the few musks that I can smell and I really enjoy it. So I get it. for me Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: the two the two most recently was Dirty Peach by Heretic. Josh: Mm-hmm. Michelle DeLorenzo: I finished that travel size so fast. And that's a 15 ml travel size. And I flew through it. And I I am not somebody who wears fragrances for compliments, but I got so many fucking compliments on Dirty Peach. And I think it's on their sale right now. So I don't know if it's a fragrance that's going away, but I highly recommend trying that one out. It is so juicy and delicious. It's one of my favorite peach fragrances. And then most recently it happened with Sunset and Tamarindo from Chris Collins. I flew through that in under a week. I loved it so much. Josh: W I mean it's only available in a travel size, which is disappointing to me, but fourteen carats by Heretic. I also blew through. Michelle DeLorenzo: So good. So good. Yeah. Heretic, bring us full-size bottles. Bring us full-size bottles. Josh: Yeah. this is a related right. this is a related question to the last one. This is from John. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: What part about sharing perfume with others brings you the most joy? And then examples that he gave to to thought provoke is is it the reactions that they receive? are you proud of your knowledge of the perfumes? Is it just the shared experience? Michelle DeLorenzo: I think it's all of that. Like I I love a shared experience. And I listen, I anytime they get to show off what I know, I'm happy. I am I am somebody who is actually very like surprisingly as a content creator and a podcast co host, I don't like being the center of attention. unless it's something I know everything about. Like, all right, so fun fact about me I hate being the center of attention so much that I eloped. I could not have a wedding because I could not bear being the center of attention. Now I still wound up being doing that because I got married at Comic Con, but that's a side story for another time. Josh: In cosplay. Michelle DeLorenzo: In costume. Yes, we were Captain America and Captain Carter. That is a whole other story. I've already had too much of this old fashioned to fully go into that. but no, I I hate being the center of attention unless I know absolutely everything about what I'm talking about. So when it comes to fragrance, I'm like, I wanna tell you, I wanna tell you everything. My my nephew recently really got into it and he got into it with the dupes. That's been like his gateway. And I keep telling him, I'm like, could I just just come over. Just just come. Come to the house. Let me let me show you the real stuff. so yeah, I mean it is it is shared experience, it is sharing your knowledge. but for me, like as somebody who also sells fragrance, when somebody finds something that they truly connect with, it makes me so excited. And it's it's kind of like it's kind of like putting together a puzzle for me. So Just last weekend, one of my best friends and his future wife came in to purchase their wedding fragrances. And she had come in a couple of weeks earlier, and we found lots that she enjoyed. We had a great time. But I knew my friend was gonna be really difficult because this is a grown man that eats nothing but like chicken fingers and french fries. And like you are gonna be really fucking hard to pick something for. And we spent a a solid like maybe hour and a half going through, and we found I I mean, I think this man has worn curves for since we're in high school. But we not only found one fragrance that he's gonna wear for his wedding, but we found another fragrance that is on his wish list. And I'm like, to open his world to all of this and see how excited it made him and her to find something, like made me feel really good inside. It's a long-winded answer. I'm sorry. Josh: No, I I I agree with you. I think I've learned I mentioned it on a previous episode. I don't do small talk well. I find it really Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: hard to relate to people on surface level conversations. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: And sharing the experience of perfume bypasses that. And you Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: can so easily start to learn things about people when they smell something and they're like, this reminds me of every summer I spent with my grandma. Or this reminds me of when I worked at McDonald's. Like you you get those bits and those pieces that let you relate to someone easier. I've also learned that perfume is a love language for me. Like Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: when I really care about someone and I smell something and I think about them, I'm like, I want you to smell this because it makes me think of you and this facet of you. Michelle DeLorenzo: I love that. Yeah. Josh: I also have like an encyclopedic knowledge of perfumes that I've smelled. So it is fun to show that off because I didn't realize that was a unique skill until we were at Fumed and Noah from Amphora, they were like, You should ask Josh. Josh knows every perfume he's ever smelled. Michelle DeLorenzo: No, it is it is really quite incredible. I think for a while my fragrance journey, I was kind of like hoarding samples as this I need to keep a reference library. But I wound up I wound up giving them all to my my husband to bring to his work colleagues because I'm like, I actually don't need to go back and reference because I remember them so vividly. So That's not everybody though. Some people some people need it. I it sticks here forever. Josh: Yeah. I do I I kind of envy people when they're like, these are the notes I wrote while I was sampling this. And I'm like, You wrote notes? I just have this like cinematic vision when I think of a perfume name and I'm like, yeah, that's what this is. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, yeah. I tried to be a notes person, but it's my brain doesn't work that way. You are a spreadsheet person though. Josh: Do love space. Michelle DeLorenzo: You I know when you had your collection was much larger, you had like a whole categorized spreadsheet. Josh: Yep. I I had it divided by f fragrance family, core note, the season you would wear it, the time of day you'd wear it. but I I also think that was a result of having so many fragrances that I couldn't Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: say, this is the fragrance for today. And now that I have Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, yeah. Josh: a much more curated collection, that's just emotion. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I tried having a spreadsheet for a while and I think I I kind of got mad at myself when I was like approaching the 300 mark. I'm like, this is too many. Stop. I I couldn't, I couldn't bear to put any more on there after that. I was like, I'm just feeling bad about myself now. So it is what it is. all right. So our friend Mr. Salty asks, I know this has probably been asked, but if not. If you had to pick a scent or sense to describe to describe one another, which one or which ones would it be? Josh: I think getting to know you and getting to be friends with you, there's different parts of Mishi that I would associate with different fragrances. So when I Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: think of like my friend Mishi and like the warmth of giving you a hug and laughing with you, I think of like Indigo Smoke by Arquiste. Cause it's this that cozy, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. I love that one. Josh: warm love, and you are the person who exposed me to that fragrance, so it's an association. But then when I also think of like Mishi. my co-host and the badass that's taking the floor of the fragrance events and the Beyonce of Stelle, I think of like portrait of a lady. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ooh, that's so interesting because that's one I hated for so long but now I love. Josh: I know. But it it is like that like confident, like sharp, sexy. So I I associate that like out outward view of you with that fragrance now. Michelle DeLorenzo: I love that. I feel so loved. I think a brand that I associate a lot with you is probably Filippo Sorcinelli. for me, they are you are this very like quiet, strong presence at all times. And like I feel like, especially when we're together, I feel very grounded by you. And I think a lot of those scents also like there's this. There's this religious kind of overtone of them. a lot of incense. And like for me growing up in a Catholic church, also, those scents make me feel very grounded. And so being around you, I kind of have that same feeling, even though those are fragrance I've I've never smelled on you in particular. but Josh: Right. Michelle DeLorenzo: definitely like I I think incense fragrances that make me feel calm and make me feel steady remind me a lot of you. Josh: I love that. I love Philippo. I mean if I it makes sense. Michelle DeLorenzo: I l I know. I love you, friend. man. Great question, Salty. Josh: yeah. Grant asks and I think this is actually three questions in one. How Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: do you handle spilled, spoiled, or stolen perfumes? Michelle DeLorenzo: so spilled. I will say there was I don't have many spills, but there was a moment where two moments. One where my daughter broke my travel size of Havana Gold from Drees van Ooten. And one where my cat broke my body oil of the the sweet cream from skin. Devastating. But since my fragrance room is in my bedroom, it just meant that my bedroom smelled phenomenal for quite a long Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: time. cleaning cleaning that up was kind of I was very nervous about the perfume in particular because I was afraid it was going to peel the the finish on the floor. But it didn't. I cleaned it up rather quickly. spoiled. I I am lucky enough that I've only ever had. Maybe two fragrances ever actually spoil. And that was because before I was, you know, really educated on on how to preserve fragrances, I used to keep them in my bathroom, which if you don't know, you should never keep your fragrances in the bathroom. And I still lived with them for quite a while because generally when a perfume spoils, The top notes kind of disappear, but the middle and base notes are kind of kind of living there. I've never had a fragrance really go rancid. So I don't know if I could answer that one. as far as stolen perfumes, I've never had a fragrance be stolen from my house, usually because I'm just like, here, take it. Take all the fragrances. but having fragrances stolen from the store is traumatic. 'Cause it feels very it feels very violating when it when it happens. but yeah, it's it's a bad feeling and there's whole lots of police reports and and nothing really ever happens with it. But yeah, it's kind of a nerve wracking but really awful situation. Josh: Yeah, I have only had two spills. one I dropped my bottle of Brutal by Demolish Studio. And Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: thankfully, rather than the bottle shattering, it snapped the atomizer off. So I was able to catch the bottle, it didn't leak too much, and then I had decant bottles and I just made several decants of it, and it was like Well, I've lost this cute bottle, but I didn't lose a whole lot of the fragrance. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: I also was doing a decant of who are they? They they went out of business. Tonkin Tonka was the fragrance by Unleashed Apothecary. Michelle DeLorenzo: yes, yes. Josh: And I was doing some decanting of that for people to smell because I wanted to get rid of it, and I dropped a two milliliter sample of Of Tonka and Tonka on my hands. I smelled like a hot gym shoe for like three or four days. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: it was so potent and there was so much of it on my hands that like no I did rubbing alcohol, I did coconut oil, I did like an exfoliating soap. It was there. Yeah, Michelle DeLorenzo: That is that is strong. Josh: it's a super strong deer musk. so I learned that Sample decanting is not for the faint of heart and only happens on a flat surface. spoiled. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Yes. Josh: Similarly, I've only had I think two small travel sizes of a perfume oil go rancid. And I was Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: like, noted, unfortunate. and now I just anything that I know has a high concentration of naturals, I kind of prioritize using. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes, definitely. I perfume oils and like body oils I've had have spoiled a lot faster. And I'm not sure why that is. Unfortunately, those do wind up going in trash. But I don't think it's the perfume part that spoils. I think it's the carrier oil that's in them. those are probably better to keep like in the fridge, honestly, because like especially like Jujoba oil, what Jejoba oil spoils, it smells gnarly. So body oils, I think I'm not in so the body oils that I have currently I have very small vials of. I have a lot of the the small vials of brown sugar babe, which I absolutely adore, but I I should probably keep those in my I should probably keep those in my fridge. Yeah, that'd be smart. let's see. Josh: We're gonna start seeing perfume rooms with mini fridges full of fragrance. Michelle DeLorenzo: Listen, in in about six months when I buy my new house and I have to completely redo my fragrance room, because I'm gonna have a fragrance room, which is really exciting. there might be a mini fridge. A little maybe a little desk fridge. Just for the oils. Josh: I'm here for it. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. so let's see. this is a great question. So Jose asks Is there a fragrance in your collection? that you don't actually like anymore? And if so, why do you still own it? Josh: This is a question more for you than me. I have Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: no sentimental attachments to perfumes anymore. I get rid of things I do like. I have no Yeah, Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, you do, you do. I have to look. my gosh. Josh: on my side personally, I get rid of a fragrance if I haven't worn it in like two months. And if I loved it so much that I miss it, I will buy it again. I have no qualms Michelle DeLorenzo: I feel like you're j Josh: with getting rid of things. Michelle DeLorenzo: I feel like you're judging me. Josh: This is a question for Michy. Michelle DeLorenzo: so there's two answers to this. I can give a specific one, but I can also give like there are some brands that I've been gifted that were from the brands that first gifted me product and first believed in me as a content creator that I have a hard time parting with. And even though they're not necessarily scents that I reach for anymore, they stay in my collection because It's kind of a reminder to me that like somebody believed in you and made you keep going. So Josh: So sweet. Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. So I, you know, I have lots of now being on some of those brands, like regular PR lists, I will as they come in, like if it's doubles or if it's something I really don't enjoy, I will give it away. But some of those first bottles, I'm like, I need that as a reminder to myself, especially as somebody who can in in the past, I think I've gotten really discouraged with things and given up way too quickly on them. And this is, you know, working in the fragrance world and and being in fragrance. it's the first time I feel like I'm really doing something for me and have been able to push back towards some of those negative self-talk talk feelings. And I think having those fragrances in my collection are part of that. Like I can look at them and say, like, you know, this is you're on the right track. but for a more specific answer. I think I've said this in the past, but probably by the fireplace by Mason Margella. And I keep this for two reasons. One, because it is a fragrance that I think opened my world to the idea that fragrances don't have to especially fragrances for women, don't have to smell just fruity and floral. they can be so much more interesting than that. it was also my wedding fragrance. So I think I'll always have even a small bottle in my collection because of that. But yeah, there is I I have quite a few replicas. And even though I don't wear them very often, they are they were kind of my gateway into the whole world. So they stay. Josh: So, next question. This is from Gabe at Tank House. have you ever smelled something so good but so expensive you wish you had never smelled it at all? Michelle DeLorenzo: So many times. I will I will name three brands in particular. Drees van Noten. And I now own four of them. there are quite a lot of Drees Van Noten's that I really, really enjoy, but for me a comfortable range for a fragrance is once it gets above two fifty, it's I I find it really challenging to justify the price. Dries Vanoten, I think, is the only designer brand that is giving me truly interesting and creative fragrances, although they are at a much higher price tag. And the bottles are gorgeous. So yeah. but there are still several that I want that I don't own because the price is quite prohibitive. my main one, which actually entered my collection fairly recently, was Tobacco Honey from Girlan. I smelled that early on in my scent journey and I promised myself I would buy it when I achieved something big. I actually wound up buying this off of our friend Elsie when we were at Fumed. And, you know, she gave me an amazing price on it. It's nearly a full bottle. And I'm like, you know what? This is us going to an event as a podcast is a big achievement. So it's time. So even though I didn't pay full price for it, I'm happy to have it at my collection. but I feel that way about a lot of girlons. I really enjoy them, but the price is prohibited for me. And the last one is Jinx. Jinx fragrances blow my fucking mind. There is one right now in the store called Summer of Sadness. That has Josh: I need to smell it. Michelle DeLorenzo: my god, it's so good. And I keep working and I'm like, okay, I have this event coming up, this thing coming up, this vacation coming up. How can I make this work? Because I believe it's it's like 595, I believe. It's it's in the upper 500s, but it is 1965 aged Mysore Sandalwood. And it's unlike anything I've ever expi I can't even describe it to you. It's so incredible. I can't wait for you to smell it next month. my God. but it's it it it blows me away and I feel I love a lot of Jinx fragrances. I do have one in my collection that I I wound up buying off of somebody else's declutter and I'm I'm so thrilled to own it. But yeah there so Therese Van Oden, Girlan and at the tippy top of the list because I would own all of them is Jinx. Josh: My list is much shorter than yours, but we have jinx in common. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. Josh: I do find the way they do ingredient sourcing and they're Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: all very limited run. This is what I could source. This is the creation I made with it. When it's done, it's done. I think is a really cool form of the perfume Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: art. It's a specific business model. I know some people really hate that. I Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: can appreciate it because it is truly limited edition. I don't love when Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: limited editions come back around. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: but the price point is very prohibitive. And the other one, I have a pretty healthy perfume budget. There is no scenario where this is ever entering my sphere of purchase, and that is Pluto by 1511 Paris. it is you are buying an art to object. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. Yeah. Josh: with perfume in it. And it is fourteen hundred dollars. Michelle DeLorenzo: But the most gorgeous bottles. Josh: I and I've heard like the packaging, you like reach through a membrane, like it's an experience and an art object and a very high quality perfume. So I do respect it. I Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: smelled Pluto and immediately was like, get this away from me. I'm gonna be in trouble if I keep sniffing this. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel too about a lot of those. I I recently texted Jake, the one of the owners from Stealth, because we got this this brand called Folklore Inn. And, you know, in the similar vein of like Jinx and Lost Tribe and in that it's, you know, aged materials, really like natural. And I'm like, I hate you so much for making me fall in love with this genre of perfume. Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Because I it's all I can think about, but these are the brands that like when we're talking about going over that three, four hundred threshold, these are the only brands that I think that's justified because the juice in the bottle is actually worth what they're being charged, what you're being charged for, right? You're using precious ingredients that are never going to be you're never gonna get another my source sandalwood from nineteen sixty-five. Once it's done, it's done. So Those to me are the brands that are worth it. And I hate that Jake made me love them. Josh: Yeah, I was thinking about it, and you know, 300 is really my ceiling with perfume now. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: And there it really has to be a ma like life altering for me to go over 300 now. Because I'm not gonna pay for the Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. Yeah. Josh: the name brand, obviously, of of a perfume. The only Michelle DeLorenzo: No. No. Josh: designer, this isn't even a question, the only designer fragrance that I've seriously considered buying since I started collecting. was the Christian Loubaton Fetish incense. Michelle DeLorenzo: That one is very good. Josh: That whole line, credit where it's due, beautiful bottles, beautiful fragrances. The Santal, great. The amber, great. The lavender I liked. So like Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. It's a solid, solid line. I can't I can't put any hate on them. Josh: Even then I think it only comes in at like two eighty. Michelle DeLorenzo: Which is really not bad. It's really I mean, I I I that's that's kind of sounds crazy to say. I know, because there are a lot of people who like a Josh: It's Michelle DeLorenzo: bottle that's at a hundred and fifty is is a stretch. And I I completely understand that. I think we we live in a kind of a different world where like fragrance is kind of like it's part of our budget, you know? so even a two hundred eighty, it's not really very accessible. But when I think of other brands who have the same name notorot notoriety as Loubuton. Two eighty is a reasonable while others are asking six seven hundred for juice that's not Josh: Yeah, I mean Michelle DeLorenzo: nearly as interesting. Josh: I think the fetish line would wipe the floor with every single mind games. And it's Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. Josh: cheaper. Michelle DeLorenzo: Absolutely. It also absolutely destroys any single Louis Vuitton, as far as I'm concerned. Josh: Yeah. So yeah. Actually, while we're on the topic and feeling a little spicy, Nikki asks, What Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: do you think about the House of Bo recent price hikes? Now Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: more money per milliliter than Guerlain. Michelle DeLorenzo: I alright, so I I know I upset some people with this take that I don't I no longer feel like they are worth their price per ml. I own four House of Bows. I adore House of Bow, genuinely. I I've been a fan of them far before they became really viral on TikTok, way before they had their 40 ml release. when they were only in Bergdorf and had, you know, it was three seventy something or three fifty for a seventy five ml bottle. So the my love runs very deep for them. But for me, I've I've praised them so much. I've praised them on this podcast for the release of the 40 ml bottle. Releasing a smaller size in an equally gorgeous bottle at a very at a much more accessible, I can't say very accessible, it's a more accessible price point of originally 175. That was huge. And I think opened them up to such a great market and made them. really made them go viral. People were going wild on TikTok for them because now they was it was within a lot of people's budgets. So I feel like this price hike has really deterred a lot of that audience that helped them rise to this level that they're at now. You know, they sort of debuted as a as a prestige luxury brand, but then brought themselves to meet the people And now says kind of like, all right, well fuck you. You know? And there's there might be reason for this price hike. And this is this is where I this is where I feel like they've failed in their messaging. So I I definitely recommend Asha Coco is this is what she does. She helps brands set prices and negotiate contracts. And she posted a really great substack about it. And the The whole thing with why this price hike feels so much different from other brands, which let let's be honest, prices do need to increase because of the economy that we're in, because of tariffs, because of material costs. It is inevitable. But when you announce a price hike, but don't give a reason behind that price hike, especially one that's that's almost at 40%. You're leaving way too much room for interpretation for your fan base. You're leaving way too much way too much room for speculation on why this is happening. And it feels like a slap in the face, and and you leave us to come up with these different ideas versus just being transparent about why this needs to happen. I think if they were honest with their audience, maybe it would have been better perceived. Still disappointing, but better perceived. And if it didn't follow up with like, hey, prices are going up, and then literally the next day there's a new release, it also would have felt different. I also want to point to our friend Arabelle, who posted a a video, not naming them by name, but talking about how they use AI in their messaging to customers. So when you make a purchase, you get a AI video of the owner saying your name. And thanking you for your order or thanking you for was visiting the website. And I think Arabelle has a really great point that the future is human made and that's what's gonna be luxury. Because so much is gonna turn to AI that if something is luxury, I want that human connection. And when you put AI in it, it ruins that luxury for me. So long rant to say I'm fucking pissed about it. Josh: I don't have a whole lot to add. I have never interacted with a House of Bow fragrance. I was a little suspect of their ability to make gemstone caps from the get-go. I work in like big business. So from my perspective, again, this is my view in. I don't know the details. You make a move like that when you are trying to make your books look right so you can be purchased, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: or because you have an investor who wants their their money back. So eat they're either going to sell or they have someone who wants money, is what I see. I obviously don't know Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: the details. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Well, I mean, because if you think about it, even even if it's not the increased price, increasing the profit margins, that rush of sales, because they've given people a window on when that price is going to go up, that increase of sales of people panic buying to purchase before the price goes up is gonna boost your numbers greatly. So there's there there feels like there and this is what I mean. We're speculating because we don't know the real details. But That's giving you a window of like, hey, look at how much of our our sales, you know, jumped in in the third quarter. But I digress. And and the reason why I I say that they're not they're not worth it any longer at this price point, although I do really love their fragrances, I think their past couple of releases to me have felt kind of redundant in the fragrance space. And where before I felt like they were much more. much more unique and innovative innovative in what they were bringing us, but the past two releases to me have felt very much same same. So price per milliliter, if I'm if I'm considering a house of bow or a girlon, I'm gonna go with a girlon. Josh: I do neither, but that's okay. Michelle DeLorenzo: This is this is gonna be a fun one for you, and I'm gonna add something in. So Discovering Casey asks, name one of each you'd recommend, niche designer and dupe. And I'm also gonna throw in Indy in there. Josh: Okay. one of each I'd recommend. Indy, very easy. goes to view by mythology. We we already do I already said I recommend that to everyone, anyways. Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Surprise, surprise. Josh: niche, I am gonna go with Heretic Hackson. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Mm. Josh: Designer. I'm gonna go with I actually just said it the Christian Lou Bouton Fetish incense or Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: the Dior New Look, the Privé Dior New Look fragrance. It smells like a morgue. I think it's amazing. Michelle DeLorenzo: You like that one? I hate that one. Josh: and then dupes, I am ethically opposed to. So I would never recommend one. I think if you if you like a fragrance and it's not at an accessible price point to you. Study it to understand what you like about it, and you can find a dozen s DNAs that hit that sweet spot for you Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: in a cheaper price point from an independent brand. Or get a decant of that, and then you have something to aspire to. Michelle DeLorenzo: I agree. I have a dupe that I think might bypass the ethical code for you. All right. Josh: Let's hear it. I'm interested. Michelle DeLorenzo: So, okay. For me, I'll start with my dupe, and that would be Liam Gray by Latafa, because it is a dupe of Greece Charnell by BDK. I I won't get into it on the podcast here because they are very litigious. But if you want to know why I'm against it, you should do your own research on that. but yes, and and honestly, having and I own the original and I own the dupe, I this is one of the rare occasions where I actually like the dupe better. Josh: I think for me Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: Okay, go ahead with your other ones. We'll circle back to this dupe conversation. Because we we've to we've talked about it Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay, circle back. All right. Josh: a few times in different episodes, so we'll put it to rest here. But continue with your other recs. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. So niche for me, I would say my my favorite niche. I'm gonna I'm gonna go Chris Collins for niche. Chris Collins is at a designer level price tag with most of his fragrances, but he is niche. That is all that he focuses on. I own multiple Chris Collins fragrances, and I think He works with some amazing perfumers. He has a great relationship with one of my favorite perfumers, Alexis Krujan. And everything that they are doing together, I've absolutely adored. Lust Oudelis, if I'm giving you a specific one. Savant Manhattan Cherry. I everything he's done is African roibos. Amazing. So niche, we're gonna say Chris Collins. Designer. This is hard. Cause I want to give an accessible designer. Cause I could say I could say Dries Vaughn, but I want something more accessible. I don't want to recommend it because I know it's owned by I think Estee Lauder, but for me it's it's replica by Mason Vargella. If you're looking for cool, new, different scent profiles that are not just what you expect in the male and female sections of a Sephora, try Mason Margella. And then Indie, there are far too fucking many for me to recommend. I am going to call out specifically because I don't think I've given him enough love lately, but our friend JK, if you want really interesting anything from Closet, my favorite is marginalia and mushmallow. But yeah, marginalia is an old book and dusty and a air conditioner sparking kind of fragrance. And musshmallow is a marshmallow vanilla custard that is creamy and whimsical and incredible. Josh: So this this dupe conversation. For Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: I everyone has to find their own ethical code to live by. So if you Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. Josh: have settled your position on dupes and you appreciate them, I am not here to change your your point of view. I frankly don't care what you do with your money. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: For me, I view a dupe as not really any different than like. Stealing someone's art, particularly from the perfumer Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: that made them. That Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: being said, there are perfumers that I know will make a fragrance and then work with the dupe house on the dupe as well. And that makes it sticky and complicated, and why I can't say Michelle DeLorenzo: Very. Josh: there are black and white answers to it. And I am a person who loves a black and white answer. So Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: you know, there are shades of it. I think if it's a if it is a big brand owned by a big house and they have murky ethics in the way they treat their people, in the the things that they support, the things that they say, the way that they operate, and you get a dupe I again, I'm not gonna say anything of what you should or shouldn't do with your money to begin with, but I feel like that is a lesser evil than buying a dupe of an independently owned perfume house. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. I think that's where I draw the line because I think I can understand that especially some of these houses are so cost prohibitive and in a way that it's not like it's not like a jinx where you're paying for the juice. You're just purely paying for the name. And I think for me I don't I don't like that sort of of I don't like that feeling. I don't like treating people that way. And I think people deserve to smell great and and have the luxury of fragrance at any price point. So in that sense, I understand dupe culture, but I don't support dupes in the same way. And I think where I fully draw the line is any dupe brand that goes after independent perfumers. I I truly I don't care if you Dupe imagination from Louis Vuitton. I don't think it's actually hitting their bottom line. And I think their prices are overpriced for no reason other than the name. So I don't really care about that. But if you come for a smaller brand, that's and there there are dupe companies out there that do that. And to me, that is incredibly unethical. so it's it's a great area for me, especially when there are so many independent brands that are in. The same price range as the dupes that are incredible, beautiful profiles that I think you should explore. So it's a really nuanced conversation that I I don't want Josh: It is. Michelle DeLorenzo: to be elitist and say you should never buy dupes, because if that's what you can afford and that's what makes you feel good, then you do with your money what what makes you feel good and what's what's in your budget to make you happy. So It's a really it's a it's a challenging conversation. Even though I don't particularly support dupes, it doesn't mean that you don't have to. Josh: And I think there is if I had to give guidance, which someone asked us this question, so they they kinda opened the door Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: here. So dear listeners, if you want to hear my guidance on it, it would be if you find something that you love and it is out of your price point, or it is from a brand that you don't want to support. Maybe go on Parfumo, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: go on the the different forums, base notes, things like that, look it up and see the the fragrances people say it smells like, and see if there is an independent fragrance, either independent or niche or whatever that is from a brand that you're willing to explore and just buy a sample. And if it scratches the itch, great. You found a great alternative. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: If you do that, nothing is scratching that itch and you're still not either A going to afford that or going to purchase from that brand, go to the gray market, go to the the resellers. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: And then if you still can't find it, then sure, I guess I do. Michelle DeLorenzo: I have a caveat on the gray market. if it's a new brand, if it's a new fragrance launch, here's the secret that nobody wants to tell you about the gray market. If it's been some of your older fragrances, they they might be overstock. They're they're older stock. So there's always the up, there's always the chance that you're getting something that is older that might be past its expiration. And it might smell very similar, but it might mean the top notes have gone away, which I think, you know, we we can expect. But if it's something that's new and it's on the gray market, you're at best case scenario buying stolen product. at worst case scenario, buying a fake. But what's even more common is you're buying something that for some reason could not be sold in retail stores. So I'm talking about like if this fragrance is released within the past like six months to a year and it shows up on the gray market. It means it's at some point in transportation, it has been overheated or frozen, or something has happened to it that the retailers will no longer accept it for sale in their stores because the quality has been degraded. I can't tell you how many times back when we were stocking products that had a gray market market that people would buy a sample from us. And then go on the gray market and buy it. And then come into the store and complain like, hey, your sample didn't smell like what I bought off of this website. And it's like, probably because you've got a degraded product. So that is that is my caveat. Josh: Yeah, and some of the the gray market websites are super, super sketchy. I Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. So be be careful. Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: I know we all all love a great deal. I've I've bought from them, I've bought discontinued fragrances off of gray market sites. I would not be able to live without my bottle of lilac a day from Wilhelm, which I will at every chance bully them that they should bring that one back. But the only way I could buy that was at a in a gray market, and I I'm thrilled to have it in my collection. But just be wary and Be understanding of what you could potentially be getting is my only point. Josh: So the next question I think dovetails into what we've been discussing. Joe says, Hey Mishi, I love, love the podcast. So two questions. One, can we get a tour of both of your collections? I think we should maybe look at doing a whole episode for Michelle DeLorenzo: I I I mean you don't need a full episode. I might need a full episode. Josh: So heard, and we'll look at doing that for an episode. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. Josh: Also, I love supporting independent artists and creators, especially now in the perfume industry. But at what point is something really air quotes independent when you know they Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: have money backing them? I love the idea of a perfumer making everything themselves out of their studio, like paraphrase, but some of the niche brands look like they have money and connections in the industry, and it feels nepoistic. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yep. It is a great point. And I think I want to take this opportunity to say that our labels of niche designer independent are no longer they're no longer really applicable to what's actually happening in the industry anymore. Because what what did niche used to me used to mean? It used to mean a brand that is only focusing on fragrance or fragrance related products and it was making making products that were for a small percentage of the population. And it meant that those fragrances were very interesting. But once we had the niche boom, what happened was is that private equity, L'Oreal, Estee Lauder, LVMH, they bought out these brands because they were doing so well and turned them into profit machines, right? And What happens when you get bought out by a big company like that or get massive private equity funding is you no longer become about the art, you become about the profit. And for some people, like that is the goal of building their brand is to eventually sell and and retire on that money. And that is when it happens for you, it is wonderful. But as the consumer, we expect w what you can expect is not only a degraded product because you're getting they're gonna look to cuss costs at an any anyway, but they're also gonna look to release fragrances that are safer and will sell more to a larger market and they're not willing to take risks. So I think what we think of as niche is not really niche anymore. I think independent is the new niche. And when I talk about when I when I talk about independent, to me I have kind of two categories. There's Independent artisanal, and then there's just independent. So an independent artisanal for me is something that is perfumer owned, perfumer made. Then the other side of just independent, it can be that, or it can be somebody who has the money to pay another perfumer to make the product for them. Both are technically independent because they don't have a parent company above them who is. funding them and putting pressure on them to release a certain kind of product. They might have their own financial situation that they're able to afford this because it is quite pricey, especially if you're going to the big oil houses. Although I do encourage anybody who is looking to make their own fragrance line and you don't want to be the perfumer to talk to independent perfumers who are willing to work. That is that is my my PSA. But Yeah, I think they're they're different kinds of indie and there there are subgroups. And I don't like the term ultra niche, but I think the artisanal and the ultra niche are kind of the same thing and we're just using different languages for them. Josh: It's just how edgy they want to come off. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, I think so. I think so. But Josh: Yeah. There it was. Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. I think if you have any sort of financial backing at all, you're not indie. Josh: Kind of. So I think Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: when we talk about financial backing, it's easy again, this is a nuanced conversation and in the age of the internet we don't want nuance, we want black and white answers. And it is very easy to say if you have any financial backing or any funding, you're owned by something and bad. And there is a difference Michelle DeLorenzo: Not bad. Yeah. Josh: between being owned by an entity and having a having a partnership or having a minority stake or having an investor. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes, absolutely. Josh: So yeah, by and large, I completely agree with you. I think niche, the old world of niche is is dead to quote some brands that themselves have private equity backing. And in the indie space, I think the word niche we could reframe as like a company that strictly focuses on a fragrance product. That's their Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: niche. That gets weird. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: but then when you look at something like I mean, there there are brands we know of that have money backing them. But the owner still has complete creative control. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes, this is true. Josh: so that's where it gets into that like shades of yes and no. It's Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: hard to build a business in a market that is so hot and so saturated, like perfume. If you see a business with any kind of scale, it's not inappropriate to assume they have an investment. It's also probably not appropriate to assume they're owned by private equity until you actually know. how many times have we talked to perfumers or brand owners that in their previous lives did something that allowed them to have connections, to have the polished perspective that they're bringing to the table? We know people who worked in TV, we know people who worked in beauty, we know people who worked in movies, and now that they're in this space, they can reach into those different outlets and they come out Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: looking. phenomenal. But that doesn't mean that they have money backing them. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. And I I do wanna say that we had this conversation recently that not all private equity, even though we ha we love to hate on them, not every private equity firm is as awful as we think they are. Josh: There are I mean God, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, yeah. But like Michelle DeLorenzo: They are the exception though. Yeah. They're not the rule. There is the a few exceptions to the rule on the particular private equity that is investing. Josh: Right. And usually private equity has made a name for itself in the way that they're terrible, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: but in the core ethos, it is someone who has made a significant amount of money somehow and has chosen to seek out brands to invest and support because they believe in it and they will get something back. And in that very reductive definition, there are some brand some PE firms we have seen. that are truly supporting brands and perfumers and and things like that because they love the vision or they love an aspect Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: of it. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: So I'll swallow my tongue and say, Yeah, okay, sure. Michelle DeLorenzo: I I think the important part of this conversation is that nothing is there's no simple answers to any of this. And every brand exists in in I I think I think just categorizing it into these few different categories isn't enough for what's actually out there right now. We're seeing such an insane fragrance boom right now and people paving their own paths that It's so much bigger than just indie designer niche anymore. Josh: Yeah, for sure. I I think we're reaching a critical mass where those categories and families and delineations are things of the past. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Agreed. Josh: Should we wrap this one up and do a part two? Michelle DeLorenzo: If there's we still haven't gotten to a lot of the questions, right? Josh: That's why I think we should do a part two. Michelle DeLorenzo: A part two I think we can do that. Is there any question you want to end with? Josh: how did you both meet? Michelle DeLorenzo: Maybe I think we've gone over that though. Josh: We did. If you watch the first second episode actually, Who is the fragrance files? you can hear a little bit more about that. But the short answer is TikTok. Michelle DeLorenzo: TikTok. We can thank TikTok. so back when Josh and I met, I had so I had recently seen a video from Jade, Jade Bod, who was talking about how she was really slighted by a brand. And I hated watching her go through that experience. And being a newer creator, I thought I need to create a space for everyone who is just starting. Cause at the time in 2023, there were so many of us who were just starting out in this fragrance journey. And Jade had been somebody who was in it for a really long time. And I'm like, how do we if if it wasn't for Jade making that video and being, you know, you know, being open enough with her audience to say that, none of us would have known how trash that brand was to especially women of color. And so my My idea was we need to make a a space for some of the newer content creators to be able to share this information about how they're being treated by brands. If you need help from anybody who might be a little bit further along in their journey. so it started off as a Facebook group that I started and we quickly realized like we didn't like interacting in that forum. And that Facebook group turned into a group chat that started on on Facebook at Messenger. And then moved to IG and then moved to regular text messages for a little while and is has now become a Discord. with a lot of the same members from when we first started. But when we had first started, we used to jump on lives together and just talk about the fragrances that we were smelling. We would, you know, unbox the newest scent mail that we had and talk about whatever whatever was new that week. And Josh had come in and started, you know, joining us in our lives and We got along so well that I'm like, hey, do you want to join our group chat? And that's I mean, that's that's just how it was. We just immediately clicked and I think Josh for me really opened up my world to indie as a baby creator. I don't think I really knew how much more was out there. And Josh really helped open open my world to that. So I, you know, thank you so much for that, Josh, because it's really not only like open my mind, but opened my entire world in the sense of, you know, where my journey is now. So yeah, we just we just immediately clicked and, you know, we we started our our Instagram group chat talking shit and Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: sharing our sense of the day. And yeah. Josh: Yeah, I think to that same point, like I had started around twenty twenty two, twenty-three, so it was around the same time, and for whatever reason, I got a lot of followers really quickly, and then the the attention d died off because I wasn't that like super exuberant influencery type person. And interacting with Mishie and like the warmth. That Mishi brought and the community that kind of coalesced there made me feel like I had a place to belong. Because it felt really hollow up until that point for me where I was like, why am I even doing this? Like 17,000 followers for what? Like and I was like, no, actually, follower count doesn't matter because I found people that I can just talk to about perfumes that I enjoy, which is all I've ever wanted to do. So Michelle DeLorenzo: I love that. And our group chat is still going strong and we still love each other. And yeah. Josh: Yeah. Our our weird channels about what we're eating every day. Michelle DeLorenzo: Shout out to the Discord. all Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: right. I want to end us on a question from James from Filigree in Shadow. And we're gonna do fuck Mary Kill. All right. So Buck Mary Kill, Filippo Sorcinelli Ooh. this is gonna be hard. Clue perfumery. And I'll make it easy, Latafa. Josh: Okay. Import is this the the brand or the owner? Because that changes. Okay. just wondering. Michelle DeLorenzo: The b the brand. If I mean I know where you're going with this, so if you want to go order. Josh: Fuck Clue. They're a fun a fun little time. Mary Michelle DeLorenzo: They are. Josh: Philippo. That's one of my longstanding safety fragrances. And Kill Latin. fuck Mary Kill. Tobacco honey Portrait of a Lady Indigo Smoke Michelle DeLorenzo: you Josh: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. I will I'm sorry, even though I love it, I will kill portrait of a lady. Only because the first 15 seconds smell like nail polish remover. The rest is gorgeous. But if I have to pick out of the three, that is the one that's going to die. I would I would fuck tobacco honey because she's a sexy bitch. But as it's a very often safety net fragrance for me, it would be Mary Indigo Smoke. Josh: Ooh I have a second one if you want to think of another one for you. Fuck Mary Kill. Michelle DeLorenzo: another one Okay. Okay. Josh: Zedou by Mind Games. Michelle DeLorenzo: god, okay. Josh: Delena. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: And LaMail. Michelle DeLorenzo: my god, no. Josh: Huh. Michelle DeLorenzo: my god. All right. So I have to kill LaMale because that was my my toxic ex, his signature fragrance for six years. so we are we are killing LaMale. no, you know, I can't even say that because I really fucking hate Delena. Okay. Okay. Kill Delena. Screw that that synthetic fake ood. Fuck LaMale. and marry marry mind games. Yeah. All right. fuck Mary Kill. Azaro is most wanted. Fersace Arrows. PDM Greele Greenley. Josh: Kill PDM Greenlee. easy. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: I'm gonna say fuck Azara's most wanted. There I get this weird almost caramel corn vibe in the opening, and it's like a good time, Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: but not something for a long time. And like Versace Eros, Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I feel that same way about LaMale. Josh: yeah, Versace Eros is to me boring. There is technically nothing wrong with it as a fragrance. So I'd marry that one. Yeah. You are on paper Michelle DeLorenzo: What a brilliant marriage. Josh: a good investment. Something I've learned is important in marriage. Michelle DeLorenzo: Goodness. Now we're throwing shade. Okay. So now that we've gone off the rails, thank you all so much for listening. We have questions that we have not gotten to. So we're going to continue to open this up for you. If you would like to pop in the comments other questions that you have that you would like us to answer, we're going to maybe next month we will film a part two and get some more of your questions in. Josh: Yep. I love this. This is a great episode format. Michelle DeLorenzo: This is very fun. Josh: All right. Bye. Michelle DeLorenzo: Bye.