Michy: does writing allow you to do with fragrance that shorter formats don't?

Christina: Yeah, so writing gives me space. So it gives me the room to really record on paper and, you know, by typing ⁓ my thoughts. It gives me time. I'm a person that really needs to sit with something and experience it. And writing gives me that space. And I couldn't imagine doing it any other way when I'm talking about fragrance. I've tried. I do some short form, but very, very little. because I need room and writing gives me that room.

Michy: that's why we also turned to doing a podcast because short form just never seemed like enough for all the conversations that we wanted to have. And even for reviewing fragrances, which we really don't do a lot of ⁓ on here, I love sit with something for a long time before I film my review. I don't like to do first impressions. ⁓ I want to live it. Am I naturally going to dent this bottle before I talk about it and tell you how much I love it? So ⁓ I agree 100%.

Christina: Thank you.

Josh: ⁓ funny, I ⁓ to write and still sometimes do as a hobby, ⁓ I've never approached it perfumery because I love to talk about it and love to go on tangents about it. ⁓ So finding someone who ⁓ ⁓ so much depth and care on perfume has been very cool.

Christina: Yeah, I grew up writing. So I went to school for creative writing and I was an English major. And it's just always how I've processed things. Even, you I love talking about things, but I feel like I get my thoughts fully formed unless I write it first. Even, you know, like when I'm like, I have an argument with my boyfriend or someone, I need to write it out and my notes out first. I'm like, I need to just do a brain dump.

Michy: Thank

Christina: have that space to process and then I can take it somewhere else.

Josh: I love that. For folks who maybe aren't familiar with the dry down diaries, can you give us an introduction?

Christina: Sure. So I write the Dry Down Diaries. It's on Substack and I publish weekly and I write about fragrance. I write about, I care most about feelings, how fragrance makes people feel. I care about story. So I interview a lot of perfumers. I interview collectors. I do reviews, but their feelings forward is what I like to say. And I really am. creating a space for people, all people in fragrance. So people just starting out, people who are deep nerds like me and wanna like learn as much as they can, ⁓ people who want to understand more about fragrance,

Michy: What made you feel that perfume was worth writing in a longer, more deliberate form?

Christina: Perfume is so rich for me with emotion. Like it's about the feelings. I'm like already repeating myself, but I think there's so much story there and that's what I find most interesting. So I've taken a lot of writing writing classes and this one in particular that I used to do, we did something called like flash fiction or even like a sensory flash. writing where you eat something or you smell something or you read a couple lines of a poem and then you just write your reaction. It's like ⁓ a brain dump where you're not criticizing yourself. You're just like getting out onto paper everything that is in your brain and reacting to whatever you just felt, smelled, tasted. And I just think that there's no better thing than fragrance to do that with.

Josh: so someone who ⁓ grew around writing, has a deep passion for writing outside of just perfume content, was there kind of a moment that the kind of quick impression, short format perfume world felt insufficient or did you always approach it with that writing perspective?

Christina: I always approach it with a writing perspective. So I've been a long time collector and fan of fragrance, ⁓ but I've been writing dry down diaries for three years and I started the sub-stock before I started my Instagram account or my TikTok account. So for me, it was always along.

Michy: I think you touched on something that we all feel and I mean, you know, the reason why we all talk about it so much is and why fragrance is so different from other things in the beauty space is that it is it is you're experiencing art. It's not simply you wear this to make your skin look better. You wear this to to look better. ⁓ wear to feel better. Like, yes, there ⁓ wear to smell good. Sure. ⁓ there's so much. ⁓ There's something so much deeper about fragrance than I think of any other beauty cosmetic thing out there. ⁓ It is wearable art.

Christina: Yeah, definitely. And I think it has the power to change our mood. So in some ways, I think of, you know, when you put on a piece of clothing, when you wear things to, it's like, I think about getting ready in the morning and getting dressed as like a little bit of my armor in the world. Like, how am I going to go out into the world today? And fragrance is that for me too. You know, if I want, if I'm feeling like open and I want people... to approach me or I'll wear a softer, more likable scent. But sometimes I just wanna be in my own little bubble and I'll use fragrance as an armor to like, and maybe nobody even picks up on that, but I do mentally. I'm like, okay, this is how I'm going out in the world today, which I think we all do, right?

Michy: ⁓ my god. I want to know what are some of your go-to stay-away-from-me-sense?

Christina: ⁓ my Kiso, Amber Kiso by and ⁓ and Black Afgano. These are two that are two. ⁓ And ⁓ I overdosed on Amber Kiso I even, I just sprayed so much of it. And somebody in the office was like, why does it smell like a dentist office today? What smells really weird in here? ⁓ And I was like, I'm just gonna into this meeting room and hide.

Michy: was when you said stinky ood my mind immediately went to it because I think you have a bottle of is a paradiso from Tata. Yeah. ⁓

Christina: ⁓ yeah, that's in my glass cloche because I'm, that's like, like hit away because I want, think it leaks a little bit and I have to like put it under glass.

Michy: ⁓ They have ⁓ dark images ⁓ of hell basically them and they are all, yes. ⁓ And ⁓ they're cool. I think it's the Paradiso one is the one that has a peach note in it. So it's got this really like wild duality of this like cheesy oud ⁓ and bright peach, not super sweet peach.

Christina: They're so cool. They're really cool. Mm-hmm.

Michy: Very interesting.

Christina: I love that you know that I have that too. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Michy: It's such a distinct bottle that whenever I see it in your videos, I'm like, fuck yeah, Christine has such cool taste.

Josh: I think also about like ⁓ as ⁓ a warning or a to keep people away. ⁓ Last year when I was New York, we were all on a train car ⁓ and someone in our group wearing Molotov cocktail ⁓ by silhouette. And we had half a train car to ourselves after two stops.

Christina: Mmm.

Michy: you Yeah. Yeah, it was a shout out to Kirk. That was that was rough. He's still not allowed to wear it around me.

Christina: I'm not surprised, yeah. sometimes as fragrance people, forget, like I'll forget that that is actually what happened with that Amber Keyser. Like I forget how strong something is or how other people might react to it because I'm just so caught up in like where it's taking me and you know, the everything about it, the notes, the whatever, the story of it. then you get around people and ⁓ you can in their faces, Like ⁓ something's not

Michy: No, so that happened to me at work the other day and I don't remember now what I was wearing. No, I do, I do, because it's on my tray. I was wearing ⁓ this one and I'm just gonna call it LB because I will butcher the name from Dorsey, which is this really gorgeous ⁓ orange blossom and sandalwood, I want to say. It's stunning. And I'm like, ⁓ this is lighter. It's not gonna be much. It's gonna be office appropriate. And then somebody who I was in a meeting with my boss.

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Michy: and the head of HR walks in and goes, why does it smell so weird in here? And I'm like, oh no, it's me.

Christina: The worst thing that ever happened to me was I was working, this was when I was in book publishing and our ⁓ publisher didn't like smells and she wanted a fragrance-free work environment, but I wore a perfume anyway and I finally got talked to and I couldn't wear fragrance to work. Even like really, really lightly, people still, someone ratted me out. It was the worst.

Michy: Man, that sucks. do you think there's point ⁓ when ⁓ talking perfume starts replace actually experiencing it? ⁓

Christina: Absolutely. think, ⁓ I mean, I love talking about perfume, right? Because it can connect us and I love like geeking out with people about it. But I think it's also very much a solo experience and you have to sit with it and you really have to, you know, one thing that I even am guilty of is this sort of instantaneous reaction. And I do this thing where at the end of every month I have a, what I wore this month that I record. every single day. ⁓ And I'll publish that. And you know, I'm testing a lot of stuff, like I'll get samples or I'll get sent stuff that I wear in a day and I'll record my reactions to it in this post. And it's like a mini review, but I haven't sat with it long enough. And so when I go back later, I'm like, actually, that's not really how I felt. And I just didn't give it enough time. And so I think that can happen with talking about something too, I think. And I think we really can influence each other in good and bad ways. think ⁓ sometimes I really try to like not hear about something or consume any content around it until I smell it, because I know how much I can be influenced. I think we all can.

Josh: I think that's a really interesting perspective on the way we experience perfume and then sitting with it, ⁓ developing our opinion. What does that process look like for you?

Christina: ⁓ when paying attention, you know, sometimes I'll just spray stuff on and go on about day. But when know I'm going to write about something, I really ⁓ follow it and I follow its journey on my skin. ⁓ And I I'll record my thoughts as I'm experiencing the dry down. So I'll like be writing notes. be, you know, I'll be writing how it makes me feel or what it reminds me of. That's when I like really let myself sit in it. That's when it feels best.

Josh: it is, those first impressions can be really fun. And I think that's why they make good short form content.

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Josh: But an easy example, last night, a friend of mine who is a flight attendant brought me ⁓ Timberlands from South Korea, particularly the bottle of Puppy. And I immediately sprayed just a quick on my wrist and in our group chat, she knows, I typed out my first impressions and I was like, it's like baby soap and dry Cheerios.

Michy: and the chance to get into the industry. And it's really a chance. And I think that's good way to start.

Christina: Hmm.

Josh: And I was like, that's so odd, because that doesn't fit the vibe of the perfume. That doesn't fit what the marketing for it should say. And it's not really what I want it to smell like. So later that night, I just doused myself in it. I was like, I'll go to bed even if I don't like it. And being able to actually sit in a cloud of the fragrance as it warmed up, I was like, ⁓ it's these really solar aldehydes that are kind of soapy.

Christina: Thanks.

Josh: and this like puppy musk and this like, as I actually lived with the fragrance rather than just one spray, was like, I do get this like playful puppy in a sun dappled clearing. I see the vision for this fragrance now. I'm still not sold that it's for me, but now I understand the fragrance better. Cause I took some time to actually wear more than just a single quick sample.

Christina: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Michy: I ⁓ I do the same. ⁓ I to wear it a couple of times before ⁓ I or before I record my review of something. ⁓ And I'm even trying to slow down with purchasing without wearing full wear first too. ⁓ ⁓ Because it is very easy, especially being a stylist, to just be like, ⁓ this is amazing, okay, I want it. You know, I need an entire, I need at least an entire shift of wearing it all over before I commit.

Christina: I would first of all have no money if I worked at Stel, but I like to also smell things the next day on my clothing. So I do the dousing too. I also, that's like one of my favorite things is when I pull out a sweater or like I pick up something I wore the day before and I hold it up and I'm like, oh, this smells like even, it just like gives you a different angle of it.

Michy: Yeah, I think it's important to experience the scent in multiple layers too, right? There are definitely scents that I will only spray on my clothes and not spray on my skin because I love them, but they don't work on my skin chemistry, but I can get use if I sprayed on my clothing,

Josh: When we think about, ⁓ you you've always approached it from this kind of literary, intentional, slower paced perspective. Do you think the way people consume fragrance content changes how they smell fragrances?

Christina: 100%. Yeah. Because, you know, as soon as you say something is there, the person listening is going to smell it, right? They're going to look for it. And so, you know, I do on and off Emma Vernon's perfume. smell club and it's so fascinating or even if you smell with friends like you know it's so fascinating you smell something and you say ⁓ there's a chocolate note and I smell rose and then the other person all of a sudden is like I smell that too so it it's opening up your brain to I think notice something it's not necessarily bad but I think it can it can make it harder to figure out your own opinion of something because you might have been influenced to look for a particular thing.

Josh: We're group hallucinating around fragrances.

Christina: Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I mean, I also kind of love it. I feel like this happened with Mother's Milk a little bit. Like, I smelled it. Liz, Vapor Room, we were at an event. She brought a sample. A bunch of us smelled it. And we were all standing around being like, it's sour. Now it's sweet. ⁓ but then smelling it on each other's skin. And that definitely influenced my experience with it and also how I smelled it, for sure.

Michy: ⁓ immediately bought a bottle of it after I think it was the same night ⁓ that you guys were experiencing. We were also experiencing it on the East Coast and I smelled it on our friend Sarah and I was like, no, that is an absolute. need that. ⁓ But ⁓ true. I think it was risky because I didn't try it on my skin, but it I think, will be one of the best releases of the year.

Josh: Yeah, reordered the heiress discovery set specifically for Mother's Milk. ⁓ I have Greenspell back there in my cabinet, but yeah. ⁓ And for those who us in video format, this is my perfume room now. ⁓ It's finally together.

Michy: Yay, new perfume

Christina: Ooh, cool.

Michy: love the experience too of ⁓ shopping with friends and trying things on skin and ⁓ realizing how differently it on everybody. ⁓ I think if you believe that that's a reality, go out shopping with your friends and smell it on everybody's skin. ⁓ My friend ⁓ Tina, Tuna, ⁓ and... ⁓

Christina: ⁓ I love Tina. Yeah.

Michy: I love Tuna so much. ⁓ Yay! mean, fragrances, I have to compare them on her sometimes because they smell so wildly different on both of our skin that sometimes it's like this, there's no way this is the same perfume.

Josh: Tuna. mean, ⁓ that conversation though, like we are talking very specifically about the way we experience fragrance in person with people. And I think that's a core element of kind of ⁓ a fragrance. ⁓ a lot of the ways we also find out about a fragrance is by consuming particularly short form content. And I think about how often my two sample list is filled up because I see a particular TikTok and I'm like, that sounds like my alley. That description works for me.

Christina: Yeah, it's tricky because I feel a certain responsibility and I'm sure you guys do too because what I smell and how it smells on my skin is so different. And so I've had people buy stuff based on, it happens to all of us, right? Based on what I wrote about it or I was crazy about it. And then they're like, I didn't smell that at all. It smelled this way. And I think that's why smell it on your skin and really like you can listen and and you know consume that content but there's nothing that's going to replace your own taste and your own opinions and I think that's where things can get really tricky

Michy: question either one of you, both of you feel free to answer this. But as long format people, what do you think would be helpful for people who are making short form content? What can they include? What can they add to their overall reviews that you think would ⁓ make experience for who's listening just a little bit better?

Christina: I always love it when people say it smells like this or this reminds me of this ⁓ because that gives me a point of reference. ⁓ So that's something that I appreciate. So if you like Delta and Venus, maybe, which can also feel like gimmicky and weird and then, you know, group things together too much, but that can help me.

Josh: It's for me, it's a little bit less about what they should do and the things that turn me away a little bit more. I think I mentioned this in our 2025 postmortem, actually the first episode of this. I really dislike content, especially around new releases where someone makes a video and they say, we have a new perfume. And then they just read the notes that are posted online.

Michy: And it thinks that. Yeah.

Josh: Cause you don't know that it smells like that. You don't know that you'll like that. Like you're not adding anything to the conversation. You're just creating a commercial.

Christina: Yeah.

Josh: And like, I would much rather you say, I'm really excited about this and this is why. Or if you have smelled it, I like this because it, and I'm a very visual person with perfume. So like tell me the place it takes you, the thing it makes you think of. I don't care about the notes. I could see those online.

Michy: Yeah.

Christina: And for what it's worth, Nishy, I think you do a really good job of talking about, I love how you talk about fragrance. And I also think it's like you find your people, right? Like you find the people who you know, oh, my tastes align with them. You smell enough that you're like, okay, I know that, know, if Kari from Oh So Peculiar, like I, there's certain people, right, that you're just like, okay. I bet I'm gonna like that. If she likes that or if they like that, yeah.

Michy: Kari, yeah, Kari has immaculate taste. If you do not follow ⁓ So Peculiar on TikTok, you are seriously missing out. I mean, taste down, I mean, she also has the most incredible house I've ever seen too. So ⁓ she's amazing.

Christina: Ugh.

Josh: Yeah, and there are also people that I enjoy and I trust them even when we have very different tastes. ⁓ To an extent, Michi and I actually have quite different tastes in perfumes, but we know that about each other and we know where we overlap. So there have been several perfumes where I'll text Michi and be like, are you at Stel? Is this for me? Do I need to order a sample?

Christina: I love dynamic too. And it actually, I've heard that before on your podcast and Tynan and Sable ⁓ from Smell Ya have that too. And I love it. And ⁓ I love the it offers too, because that's another thing I think that can happen with all this content we have to consume now. It's like, you can think that there's a right and a wrong way to enjoy perfume or what to like, or what's, I don't know. There's all these. I feel like we police each other a lot and there's a lot of rules that shouldn't be there. And so I like it when like Tynan likes a lot of designer fragrances and he does not give a shit. He's like, this is what I like. And I like the sweet stuff and I let, know, and he's unapologetic about it. And I love that. And there needs to be space for that. And you know, Sable likes the darker like her die-hot with a vengeance, you know, that's her vibe. And I know I usually lean more towards her, but it's really interesting to hear them.

Michy: Yeah.

Christina: talk about fragrances and hear their different perspectives on the same scent.

Michy: Yeah, I definitely big shout out to Smilyolator. I love their podcast. In their most recent episode, Titan said something that I'm like, yes, and I wish this is something that more ⁓ creators and reviewers understood. And there's a new fragrance that's, you know, will probably, you know, it's not going to be for me. I know it's not going to be for me. And I really just wish that people And I agree with him on this, that when you're reviewing something, you can objectively say that something smells nice, it smells good, it may not be for you, but there is an audience for it somewhere, right? There is, you know, in the realm of fragrances that I think we're really working with, there's very few times that I'm like, this is a bad fragrance, this is a poorly done fragrance, these ingredients are not good, they don't work together. I know that there is somebody, know even if it's not my particular taste, somebody will like this. And it's okay to say, this smells good. It's just not for me. Not everything has to be for me.

Josh: where do you think short content does well and where do you think it falls short?

Christina: I was thinking about this and I think one of the amazing things about short form content and I'm thinking a lot about TikTok for this too, is how much it can really help an indie brand, a perfumer, launch their career. I interview so many different perfumers and so many of them, especially the smaller ones who don't have budget for marketing, they attribute their SID of SID Botanica as one of these people. And she said, I have not spent a dime on marketing because she didn't have the budget.

Josh: Love, Sid. Love, Sid.

Christina: It's hers. She's a, I know, me too, one person show and she attributes so much of the success of her line to TikTok. That's where she, and she didn't send product too, you know, and it really, for a long time. And I think that's amazing. I think that's incredible. I think the way it can unlock. just the discovery for people and to surface these really small indie brands that are up and coming. And I think that is incredible. On the flip side of that, it can also, you know, there's a founder who has a fragrance brand that launched a perfume that was very different from the rest of their line. And the first review it got on TikTok was really bad and that killed it. It never recovered. And that can happen too. So, ⁓ I don't know if that totally answers your question, but I think it's something really awesome about short form content that that community has created. I think it's incredible. And I think it's just, I look at Fumed and it's all, I wish I could be there, but it's all these amazing indie perfumers who I love who like, and I think so much of the community has lifted them up and has really like helped get them out there. And I think that's incredible. Yeah, that's how I feel like that this community should work.

Josh: so started my TikTok and gothfragrancebestie was born out of falling in love with perfume ⁓ and my saying, we love you Josh, but please stop talking to us about perfume. Make a TikTok or something. ⁓ And if never explained this on the TikTok or on ⁓ the thing, was something a friend called me. ⁓ She was I love that you have so much knowledge of perfume. You're just like my gothfragrancebestie. And I was like, That's the name. ⁓ But even when I first started doing it, didn't really, know, 30, 60, 90 seconds isn't enough time to explain both where our fragrances from, what the perspective that the perfumer had, if we know, and how it makes me feel. That's like three separate videos. So I felt like I struggled a lot to...

Michy: Thanks.

Josh: build an audience there. And the TikToks that did do really well and built me a pretty quick following were the ones that I felt lacked the most depth. I have a TikTok of unboxing oddities dead air and just talking a little bit about how I find it to be a very melancholy aquatic fragrance. And it's got nearly a million likes and it blows my mind or a million views, sorry, not million likes.

Christina: You

Michy: Hmph.

Josh: but a million views, and I'm like, it's just an unboxing video talking about this fragrance. I don't know why it performs so well. I don't think it's a very interesting video. And that was why I ultimately pivoted away from short format mostly was because I don't think I can engage with perfume the way I enjoy to consume it.

Michy: Yeah, I agree with both points. think I've struggled with building a following and it's steadily been increasing over the years, but Short form really is for the designers, it's for the affordable. When you're talking about the niche and indie stuff, you don't grow as fast because the community is significantly smaller, And it feels like a very... ⁓ It just feels very tiny of the people. I'm talking to the same people who want to experience these fragrances. I'm not oftentimes influencing people out of my sphere. So I think that's the frustrating part. ⁓ that unless you talk about those specific fragrances, which are not bad, they're just not in my range. ⁓ But I do think I agree that talking about them, even if you're reaching 100 people, even if you're reaching 50 people, talking about the indie fragrances is important. And these are the brands that we should be uplifting. We mentioned this, I don't know if it was last episode or the episode before, but The people who work at these big fragrance houses, they have so much more creativity and they want to do so much more with the fragrances that they're putting out to the mass market. And they're looking at indie brands to see what's doing well for them. And they're hoping and wishing that they get clients that want to be adventurous so they could mass market some of these fragrances.

Christina: Hmm.

Josh: What do we feel gets lost when both ability to generate content, but also the ability to consume it is so immediate?

Christina: I think you can, I'll speak for only myself, but I think I can forget why I'm in it. I think I could get caught up in the frenzy and just sort of, especially when I consume, just sort of forget. Like it's so easy to just like, you know, in all content, it's not just short form, but. ⁓ Sometimes I have to take a step back and put myself on like a content diet because I'm like, okay, like I have to I had this moment actually recently within the last week where I needed to come back to center and just reminded myself what remind myself of why I do this and why I care about this because it's so easy to Even mother's milk was amazing and I love it But even there's like this frenzy around like ⁓ my god, I have to smell it. I you know, and and you can kind of forget why you're in it in the first place, And then when I'm writing, I write weekly, sometimes more. And my posts take me a very long time to write. And I can get real birded out. And I think if I just think about publishing and publishing content and publishing a post, I can lose sight of. why I'm doing this in the first place. And when that happens, I'll do Jake and I from Style have this thing where he'll send me unmarked files and I'll write about it before I know I have any context. And it's such a good exercise and just smelling the fragrance. I don't know what it is. I don't know the notes. I don't know the marketing campaign. And that kind of thing brings me back to center. It's like, this is why I'm doing this.

Michy: That's my favorite way to experience fragrances in general. Like I've done a couple of lab sample testing for Simrise and for a couple of other brands. And it's, you're right, it really is just like the purest form of enjoying something just for the juice. Figuring out what the journey is for you, what the notes are for you, because as we know, notes are completely made up. But it feels the most fulfilling. I 100 % agree.

Josh: ⁓ When you talk about, you you mentioned you write once a week, sometimes more. ⁓ What does that writing process look like for you? Do you come with a topic or a scent in mind? Or does it kind of go where the spirit takes you?

Christina: Oftentimes I will be, ⁓ I'll start something and I'll be working on it for several weeks. ⁓ But if it's, you know, I do this regular feature now with Michael Nordstrand where he's Ask a Perfumer. So that's a regular reoccurring feature. So there's things like that that I can kind of work on throughout the month or my monthly where's posts. But when it's really sitting down and writing about my thoughts and my like more review style posts, It depends. So the Mother's Milk, to be honest, I sat down, I was so inspired by it that I woke up in the middle of the night and started writing it on my notes app and then got out of bed and finished it on the couch and published it at midnight. So that just like vomited out of me. ⁓ But that's rare and that felt really good, but that's really rare. Usually it's quite a longer process.

Josh: Hmm.

Michy: So first of all, think I'm very like super in love with the Ask the Profumer with Michael Nordstrand. Love that man so much. I also really love the interviews that you've been doing with collectors. think that's a really, we get into talking about community building. I think that's a fantastic tool. ⁓ But we keep talking about Mother's Milk. So I feel like we should mention a little bit about

Christina: Mm-hmm.

Michy: But when wore for the first time, I actually got quite emotional because it very much reminded me of my kids when they were infants. And there is this beautiful creamy milkiness ⁓ that is sort of reminiscent ⁓ of breastfeeding, but this soft velvet skin ⁓ the fragrance that very much feels like. their fuzzy newborn hair. So for me, was just really super touching to have that scent memory in fragrance form. it's a very difficult time of being a parent because having infants is absolutely wild. And it goes by so fast that you really don't get time to appreciate it. So having it in scent form just really made me. Super weepy. And it's a memory I'm glad I get to keep.

Christina: Yeah, ⁓ I ⁓ thing I about Mother's Milk is that it really truly took me on a journey ⁓ and that it so much fun to write about that journey. ⁓ But I smelled sourness like there is a sour milk. is a you know, and then I did smell ⁓ the top of baby's head ⁓ and it just me on that lacterine lactonic journey. But what I love about it and this was interesting because it was the dry down was really different on everyone. really different. But for me, the floral rose, think there's rose in here, ⁓ rose water like really came out. And so it just, you know, like hours later, all I got was this like really pretty creamy rose. And I loved it.

Michy: Yeah, it's amazing. really, to me, feels like being up at 3am, completely exhausted. There's a soft glow, glowing light, and it's just you and the baby. And you're feeding and you're stressed, but it's so comforting and sweet and adorable.

Christina: Yeah, it did make me think of my mom and it did make me think of her. There's a leather note, there's leather, like there's something rough in it too. So it brought me to like her purse, her handbag, and then cuddling her.

Josh: I just thought it was really interesting that I've yet to smell Mother's Milk, but the same week that it released, ⁓ Fischer's Sund released a full version of Faux Flora 1. And if you want an emotional journey through the human experience, purchase the Faux Flora set by Fischer's Sund. I cried at every single one of them. They're in the case back there. And one is birth. So it does have this milk accord. It does have this softness, this powderiness. And I was like, how interesting. Like if I had a nickel for every time a breast milk perfume was released, I'd have two nickels, which isn't many, but the fact that they were in the same week is interesting.

Christina: Yeah, love that that's my favorite. The Flo-Flor-A for a Flo-Flor-A set is amazing and number one is my favorite. and it's more like saliva-y. There is a lactonic, but to me, the mother's milk goes more like floral and soft. And number one is, it's more like raw in a way, but I absolutely love it. Yeah.

Josh: Mm-hmm. I think raw is a good description of all five of those in a way.

Christina: Yeah.

Josh: four and five particularly are quite emotional when you smell them and kind of sit again with them. Fisher's Scent does that very well ⁓ and the to sit with a fragrance.

Christina: talk about a rich ⁓ fragrance to write about, their scents are just so layered. They really take you on a story. There is so much layering in there that happens. Yeah, those are really fun ones to smell. I like to smell those with other people and just hear what they're experiencing. ⁓ And then they did the whole soundtrack too. Like there's music you can listen to and they were like, yeah, really beautiful.

Josh: As much as I loved Iceland, was my favorite vacation I've ever had. ⁓ Visiting the Fischersund workshop was very, high on the list. They're spectacular. Moving away from our love of Fischersund, the value of the long form.

Christina: That's so cool that you got to, I would love to. You ⁓

Josh: Do you think there are audiences that have an appetite for this slower, more thoughtful content?

Christina: Yeah, and to be honest, think that a lot what people crave right now is connection. And I think people want that in so many different ways. I think it's why we all want to come together more and have there's more events, whether it's ⁓ scent swaps or perfume events at stores or things like fumes. There's an event out there. There's more and more of these cropping up. And I think it's because that's what people are craving. And I say that because I think long form also allows this space. to have a conversation and to really dig into something in a way that makes you feel seen. And I feel it when people comment on things I write or there's like this discourse that happens and then people will come back to things or message me and there's just something that's happening. It gives you more space to go deeper. And I just think people want that now. more than ever as the world is on fire and we're all feeling like off our axis, like things feel crazy and I think feeling that connection however we can matters more than ever.

Josh: Yeah, I think there's, when it comes to like perfume publication, ⁓ I really think of you with the dry down diaries. And I think of Jen at Immortal Perfumes with the scent strip, which is quarterly. ⁓ But to your point, this kind of community that we're all driving and craving. And that's why Mischi and I wanted to build this podcast as well. The dynamics of the perfume community is also sometimes difficult. ⁓ How have you seen the perfume community change in the kind of three years you've been working with it?

Christina: Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, one thing I find is that my readers are way more knowledgeable. I do this thing where if you become a paid subscriber, which you do not have to. I have tons. 90 % of what I write is free. But for my paid subscribers, I'll do custom recommendations. And I will do recommend. And I have to tell people, you fill out a survey and then I recommend. And I have to tell people now, like, this is based on my knowledge, which may be much more limited than yours. And so I'm finding that people have gone deeper and deeper into this world. And it's awesome. And ⁓ So that's one thing. I think there's more and more content. There's more and more. ⁓ The community has just gotten bigger and bigger. ⁓ Yeah. And I think. there's really, really good things about it. But then I think sometimes it can feel a little performative and we can see people just like doing this thing that like, okay, I want to show up on TikTok. This is how I'm supposed to show up on TikTok instead of losing sight of like, no, like what makes someone connect with you is, you showing up as you and really like knowing your taste and making sure that's what you're, what you're sharing and not just like parroting something or ⁓ Whether it's, yeah. Yeah. And it's funny, I was talking to Jake from Stahl about this like duping culture. And like this bad like duping culture, which is with fragrance duping, there's that. But then it also kind of...

Michy: Shout out to Jake, we love you.

Christina: this is where we might need to edit. But it also can happen in community and in content creation. And I think sometimes it's very innocent. It's like we're all consuming, and sometimes we may do something that we don't even realize. ⁓ I got this from another person, and I think it's just how the world works, right? But then I think when you do something and maybe you've, I'm speaking vaguely here, but maybe you've taken something from someone without realizing it, if it's then brought to your attention. acknowledging it and like doing the right thing around it is super important.

Michy: Yeah, no, I think it's, you know, I know you've experienced it, but it's kind of almost a universal experience now for a lot of creators where, you know, you record a certain kind of content or you come up with a hook or something and someone does it and this happens especially to black women in this space where what they're putting out with the originality that they're working with is being co-opted and they're never and it goes far, I mean far beyond fragrance, you let's look at this as a macro thing too. But you know, it's okay to be inspired by each other. It's okay to learn from each other. Elsie said this in our episode with her too. Just acknowledge where it came from. Say, hey, I saw this video. Christine told me about this fragrance, Michi told me about this fragrance, Josh told me about this fragrance, or I loved that this one did this, this is my take on it. It's okay, and that builds community and that builds your connections rather than isolating people. it's very easy to track these things now. It's very easy to see who posted something first. And then you wind up... getting yourself in hot water and the perception of you is going to change if this is something that you're doing to people. So I know I have certainly changed my perspective on certain things that I know have stolen from my friends.

Christina: Yeah.

Josh: I mean, I think there's probably not a defined line, but it's a good prompt question to continue the conversation. When does sharing become performing? And if we reflect on LC's episode, everything is a performance. But more to the aspect of being performative for an algorithm and not so much about the content you want to create.

Christina: Mm-hmm. ⁓

Michy: everybody gets very obsessed about the numbers your follower count right but when we're talking about if you're doing it for recognition of brands which I mean if that's your ⁓ motivation fine but ⁓ a lot of times brands are not looking at just that count they're looking how much people are actually engaging with your content you can buy followers it's illegal ⁓ But you can buy followers. And if your follower count doesn't match your engagement, a brand can look at that and say, this is not a real account. It's very easy to see. Building your community, building your rapport with the people who are watching you are the most important things that you can do to grow in general. But... ⁓ Yeah, it's something that people shouldn't get so bogged down with the numbers and talk to people more.

Josh: also think ⁓ anecdotally something that just came up around that was I had someone reply to a comment that I left on ⁓ Professor Perfume's video two and a half years ago. was something of her unboxing a PR kit. And I was like, I can't wait till I get PR from brands or something like that was the comment. And someone for whatever reason, two and a half years later, commented saying how'd that work out for you? And I don't know if they were being facetious or what, ⁓ but I was like, how interesting, because I actually just turned down a brand for PR like two weeks ago. Like, I actually don't want PR now. I thought that's what I wanted. I thought that's what the social media game was. And I also, we talked about it before, had a huge collection. And I was like, actually, this isn't what I

Christina: Hmm.

Josh: I want to have the very best of each mood of a fragrance I want. I want to sample what you have and talk about it. But if I'm going have a bottle, I have to absolutely love it now.

Michy: Yeah. Yeah.

Christina: is, I feel, so much talk about getting on PR lists in the community amongst content creators. I ⁓ that can be the wrong motivation. But I also understand it because getting PR enables me ⁓ do a lot of what I do because I don't take money from brands. ⁓ I will take bottles from brands or discovery sets from brands because then it helps me do this without having to buy as much. ⁓ But there is something about it. I tell brands, I'm not going to write about it. I only write about things I like. And I set those expectations. And I think that's really important. ⁓ But I think that's a really good point, Josh. I think taking a step back and saying no to brands that you don't, you know you're probably not going to like or write about is super important. And I feel like there can be this threat frenzy around it that is the wrong motivator that does cause the performative. Like here's a box of the latest thing that I just got and I'm the first to write about it.

Josh: Yeah, I think there's, it again connects to that performative element and not necessarily performative for likes or things like that, but it's that validation piece of maybe I am actually good at this hobby of mine. If a brand wants to send me something, I know why I wanted to be on a PR list. I wanted that validation. And sometimes it would be nice if certain brands would want to send me something because I really liked them. But I also realized I don't need that. I don't. I don't need the likes, I don't need the validation. Like my short form content has all but fallen apart. I have a follower number that does not match my engagement because I don't show up anymore. And that's fine. Because the community that we've built and the people that I have this parasocial relationship with that hopefully will become an actual relationship is great. And that's what I was longing for. I finally figured out that that was the piece I wanted.

Michy: Now, I think for so many of us, like being in this fragrance community, we feel like we found our people. And that's the most incredible thing. Like I never thought that as an adult, I'd be making friends and like really good friendships, really like friendships that will last a long time over perfume. What?

Christina: I know, I love it so much. And I find that perfume people, there is this like through line that runs through a lot of perfume people. And it's just this like sensitivity and creativity and curiosity. And it's like so many of my people have that. I don't know, there's just this thing in the community that's so lovely. And I feel exactly the same way. And I feel so lucky as an adult to have found this community.

Josh: I think that leads into our next question pretty well, actually. What does it mean to you to have a voice in the fragrance world today?

Christina: ⁓ it means being able to show up as myself and share my own views and opinions. And I feel really lucky that people care enough about them to read them and to show up in that space with me. ⁓ and I think there's a certain responsibility there too. Like I think, I really think about who I wanna give space to on my platform, on Substack. Like I think about it through the people I wanna show in that Collectors series and the people, those people in the community and the perfumers I wanna give space to. And then I also create space for things I just really love that may not be the coolest thing, but it's a part of me and what matters. And I think just being really conscious of showing up as myself always. is so important.

Josh: And just so you're aware, you have inspired us to interview perfume collectors.

Christina: Amazing! I love that!

Josh: We have kind of talked about, we have this series around kind of the issues and then we're going to do like really joyous brands. And then we're going to look at interviewing people that are also collectors and content creators and the other aspects of this great community.

Christina: Mm-hmm. I love that. Yeah, I love that. I think it's so important and like to your point, Michi too, like I think that representation matters so much to you, like showing the people who are in the community and ⁓ giving them space to talk about the bottles that matter to them, why they're in it, like why, and I think people love reading it. Like people love hearing it. It does not have to be anybody that anybody knows even like, ⁓ I love that, I love that you guys are gonna do that.

Michy: a little teary seeing my friends on your your sub stack. I was like, I love these girls so much. I'm so happy they have like a moment to be appreciated and enjoyed. Star and Kari love them so much. So I can't wait to see the next one.

Christina: And what amazes me with that ⁓ series is so many people, everyone I asked to do that series, because I send a series of questions. They're such good writers. Like, of course, because these are thoughtful, creative people. But I'm just blown away. mean, Tracy of Invisible Stories, I had her on. everyone, even people you would expect and then people who aren't writers are really have really beautiful words to share. So that's always a really fun part of it as well.

Michy: do you protect your perspective from being diluted or rushed?

Christina: honestly like I think I need to take breaks sometimes so as much as I can like immerse myself and I want to see what all my friends in the community are liking and reading and reviewing I need to ⁓ ⁓ yeah, when I write it, very rarely rushed. ⁓ So I think like by like a forcing function, it forces me to slow down.

Josh: thinking about the way you interact with the community? We talked to the kind of onslaught of releases of PR, of short-form content, and then these slower, thoughtful, more creative methods. Do you ever have to step back and kind of redefine your relationship with the community?

Christina: Yeah, 100%. I feel like I did this recently. Like I was looking at TikTok and I just saw some things that made me feel not good. That was like a little mean-spirited and icky and it made me feel bad. And I think also I can sometimes compare myself and think about like, I'm not doing enough. I'm not getting enough out there. And ⁓ that's when I know I need to like step away.

Josh: What does that look like in the fragrance space and really any creative space? ⁓

Christina: For me, looks like ⁓ anxiety. ⁓ like kind of panic and not having, ⁓ spinning out. Like I just will spiral and I'll just, I'll get really anxious and I'll get really, ⁓ be really self-critical and think like, this isn't good enough. I'm not, nobody cares. Like that whole horrible like self-talk. when I get there, I think actually read, like I try to read, Atlas of Perfume Botany, that book. I'll like, it's such a beautiful book. So I'll like try to like take myself out of my head and like.

Michy: ⁓ I had that one too. Yeah. So beautiful.

Christina: read and have like a pause, like a forced pause and get lost in something. I like that book because you can pick it up and just open it anywhere and like just taking a break from ⁓ the screens too.

Michy: Yeah, I've very much been feeling like I've been overwhelmed by my screen recently and need to put it down and like refocus myself because I feel like I'm consuming more content that I'm producing and it makes me feel stressed out. But it really just sucks you in and keeps you in a loop.

Christina: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Michy: You know, and it's like I want to keep up with what everybody's doing, but it's overwhelming. ⁓ you know, taking a step back and off the screen in the real world, what kind of perfume community do you want to be a part of?

Christina: I feel like I'm a part of the community I want to be a part of. I feel so lucky. People, I mean, this weekend was lovely. Ministry of Scent here in San Francisco had an event for Teddy the perfumer, his perfume release. And we all showed up for Teddy, but we showed up for each other too. it's just, you know, some people you only see at these events, but there's just this familiarity and kindness. And like, it just feels welcoming and kind and ⁓ safe. And I feel like there's so much of that in this community and I feel really lucky to be a part of it. I don't know. And I wanna be a part of a community that like sees one another. And when I felt bad things in the community and it's made me wanna retreat, it's when I feel like... that is not happening. And there is like certain things that are, ⁓ yeah, not not like ethical.

Michy: Yeah, I would say that there's definitely different areas of the community ⁓ where we all have in common that we love fragrance, but all love fragrance very differently and very different types of fragrance and have different opinions of the world. But I do think that we have found our community. think there was a time where I felt, and Christine, this is the first day that we met. Do you know that you were the first person to ever recognize me off of my screen in the real world? was like, yeah, it was last year. It was my first week at Stell. And I think we were having some sort of event and you were like, ⁓ my God, Miss Shia. And I was like, and I had never seen your face because I had only ever seen your Instagram at the time. And I was like, and but it was just like, ⁓ my God, like.

Christina: ⁓ my god, I did not know that. You

Michy: This feels so good to be out and like, these are my friends that I've never met before, but these are my friends, you know? So it felt really good. And I think that's why I enjoy going to these events too. I will be perfectly honest, there's very few brands at events like Scent Explore. Fumed is different. I want to see every single brand at Fumed, but at brands like Scent Explore, where I'm like, I know I'm probably... not going to purchase anything. I think I purchased two bottles the whole weekend. ⁓ But the best part about it is like all of my friends are in New York City with me. Like I get to see these people, I get to hug you, we get to talk, we get to have dinner. And it's amazing how even people I've had very little back and forth interaction with like we feel like we're old friends. Like we've been chatting forever because of this because of perfume and it's incredible.

Christina: Yeah, I love it. I love it. And it's almost like when you meet people like Sophia from Sophia Smells Things and Carrie was just for me and like, it's like, know them already. There's just this familiarity and yeah, I love that. Meesha, didn't know that. That makes me so happy. ⁓

Michy: So you know the special place my heart always.

Josh: I do love the few people that I've had the pleasure of meeting in person from online. The one comment I always get is, you're so much bigger than you look at phone cameras. I think now that Michi and I have a picture together though, it helps set the scale a little bit.

Michy: It helps. You're a tall babe, I love it. And I was wearing platforms in that photo.

Christina: You're tall, you're tall. I know that from the photo,

Josh: Yeah. Yeah. So now.

Christina: ⁓ my god, are you like six what six something? ⁓ wow.

Josh: ⁓ There's a picture of, yeah, there's a picture of the group of us in New York when we went shopping at Berkdorf. And it looks like Papa Bear and the kindergartners that I'm rushing home, because I was just so much taller than everyone else in the photo. So yes, if you see me in person ever, please feel free to say hi. And yes, I am very tall.

Michy: And I'm 5'1".

Christina: That sounds all I am too.

Michy: you

Christina: ⁓ god, I love that.

Michy: You

Christina: Amazing.

Michy: And it's the exact opposite. People are usually surprised at how short I am.

Christina: Yeah, people usually don't know who I am, which is kind of nice, but sometimes more and more, once in a while I'll show my face or I'll be in style or something and Jake will be like, this is Christina from Dry Down Diaries. And then people, then it'll click. But yeah, when people do recognize me, I'm always surprised because I'm like, how do you know what I look like? But yeah.

Michy: Okay. I feel like you're an honorary style employee at this point.

Christina: I know, I know, I love those guys. I've worked some shifts before. I go to New York so much for my family's on the East Coast and I go there all the time for work. And there are definitely afternoons ⁓ when Jake would be like, what are you doing? Do you want to come work a shift? I'm like, sure, absolutely.

Josh: the West Coast celebrate.

Michy: It's funny because before I started working there, they had opened up in like January and I had brought people in. I started working like the following end of February, but I would bring people in and I'd show people around and it was like, there, guess this is gonna work.

Christina: you

Josh: So thinking about ⁓ if someone is listening to this and they're maybe have been struggling with short form content or video content, and they're like, ⁓ writing, maybe that's the avenue to any of those aspiring writers out there. Do you have any advice?

Christina: I often tell people actually, when you do start writing, actually use pen and paper because it's a different sensation than typing at your keyboard. it's a little bit more, the output is different. So I always tell people to try that. I also... I tell people to just write, you know, I work with a lot of, also work in sub stacks. I work with a lot of writers there and I just say, it like, you know, dedicate, find a time to write, try to make a habit of it and just don't, don't judge yourself. Just put it out there and just start. don't edit yourself, don't edit yourself because you can always go back and edit, but get everything on paper. And, ⁓ be kind to yourself in the process.

Josh: I would be remiss not to do a plug. If you enjoy the Fragrance Files, our secret third Fragrance File person is our editor, Adam, who is a writer. ⁓ A.C. Lowry, The Shimmering Saga, if you're interested. ⁓ He is the reason that all of this makes it out every Friday. So, thanks Adam.

Michy: We love you Adam! So coming into our closing ritual and maybe thinking not for the purpose of writing, but what does it mean to spend time with a fragrance for you?

Christina: when I really spend time with the fragrance. It's a break in my routine. It's one of my favorite things to do, especially when I'm like in a rut or just like feeling a little depressed is just to go over to my fragrances and to smell them and to really feel them and to like not think about anything else. So it's a ⁓ It's like a ritual to me. It's a sacred ritual. That sounds so cheesy, but you guys know what I mean.

Josh: It's not. Any long time listener knows I love modern ritualism. It was gonna be an area of study for me in grad school. ⁓ And yes, I think the ritualism of perfume is of great psychological benefit to all of us smelly freaks.

Michy: You

Christina: you

Michy: ⁓ yeah, I love to just sit in front of my cabinet and pick up bottles I haven't worn in a while and just sniff and just enjoy. It's just such a delightful sensory experience. with that said, and this is the question for all of us, what are some fragrances you are currently spending time with?

Christina: Damn fool. Damn fool. I'm like, have about this Untouchable Butterfly is the one I have right here. And I wrote about them and I absolutely love them. I think that they're doing amazing things. I've been, I have...

Michy: Damn fool! ⁓

Josh: Ugh.

Michy: Mm-hmm.

Christina: Some from Sid Botanica that I've been loving. That like a lot of like green citrusy stuff I'm into right now. Sid's Butterfly Tamer.

Michy: I just picked up. ⁓

Christina: here. ⁓ Wait, for real? That's crazy. ⁓ We're psychically connected. That's crazy. ⁓

Josh: Butterfly Tamer is really lovely. My favorite Sid is Liminal Creatures. I got to smell an early rendition of it and ultimately got the first bottle when she released it.

Christina: Hmm. Ooh. What both of you are going to love that will be at Fumed is Earthstar, her newest release, which is... She sent me a little bit. It's beautiful. Got a little mushroom. It's good. Real good.

Michy: ⁓ I can't wait.

Josh: The clay. I think I also smelled a very early version of that one. Could have been a different one.

Michy: I plan on getting multiple of the, because I'm obsessed with the travel size bottles that Sid has, so. So cute, I'm I am planning to get multiple of those next week, yeah.

Christina: They're so cute. These. Okay, this is one too, sorry, but I'm obsessed with ⁓ Luster, Ally Studio. This is such a ride. It's my favorite one from Ally Studio and I love Bryson's work. But this, just like that starchy sweet potato that doesn't get too sweet. And on me, it's just this gorgeous spicy dry down and I love it.

Michy: ⁓ yes, so good.

Josh: Lustre is so good. ⁓ with gourmands for the first time and luster was an immediate purchase. Phenomenal.

Christina: Mm.

Michy: Yeah, I'm loving watching Bryson and Eddie grow in their fragrances, and I genuinely love all of them. But his growth over the past, what has it been, a year, two years is really incredible. I'm very, very proud of them. anything for you?

Christina: Venus and tuberose, but like that, it's warm, it's nice. Like it's, that's a hot weather scent for me and it's been really hot and I need to always have a white floral that I can, I love a white floral. Real basic that way. Love it.

Michy: I love a good white floral. Well, you said one of mine, said Sid Botanica Butterfly Tamer. I actually picked up the full bottle last week for my birthday. And yeah, I'm really loving it. It was a particularly warm day in New York for the time of year. And I'm like, I'm so ready for spring. And it was between this one and Honey Body. And I had a really hard time choosing, but Honey Body will probably. probably come home with me at some point too. But ⁓ also speaking of fragrances that are going to be at Fumed, Kelly and Jones sent me a few of her fragrances that I've been living with and just I want to give them the full experience before I, you she didn't ask me to make a video. She just said, hey, I want to send these to you. But I want to make a video for her. And these are so delightful. I really like genuinely and not all of them are my scent profile, but like my husband's getting the green one. ⁓ And he loves that one. It's really like, it's very like classic masculine. ⁓ But all of them, I'm really loving the Mezcal Flora a lot and I really love her Chardonnay Disco. ⁓ So yeah, I'm really there genuinely they just feel so lovely. And so I don't know, they're fun. They're fun fragrances. ⁓ I'm also, let's see what's on the tray. Another one. I've really been nostalgic about my kids being little, but I picked up cereal.

Christina: ⁓ I like that one.

Michy: But I picked up cereal from Egg are All Factory and it's so silly, but it smells like a bowl of dry Cheerios and it just reminds me of them being little toddlers eating for the first time. And ⁓ then another one bringing me lots of joy and I can't wait to go through my disco set and hopefully she will be on the podcast soon is Mochi Glow.

Christina: ⁓

Michy: Mochi Glow is the brand. I have Asian Bakery and it's this ⁓ so good. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ These ⁓ sheets. So ⁓ long story short, she ⁓ started small business then picked by a massive retailer.

Josh: They should be great.

Christina: Ooh, I need to smell.

Michy: that really made her change a lot about her brand and was sort of whitewashing it. there is this brand feels like it's just it's pure joy. It's pure celebration of her culture. And it was kind of getting whitewashed with with, you know, to meet their audience. And I'm glad that she's coming back to herself because these are so just lovely. They're an incredible price point. I think they're between 50 and sixty five dollars. Adorable little bottles. And Asian bakery just smells like It's buttery and starchy and salty and just it's so fun. Yeah. ⁓ my God. Next time you're in New York, I will bring you the disco set.

Josh: It's hot salty bread.

Christina: God, I need to smell that sounds so good.

Josh: ⁓ I really been... ⁓ living with my fragrances a lot lately. have, life is a lot at the moment. ⁓ So like the fragrances that I am grabbing are like my hyper comfort fragrances, ⁓ which right now are like Santol by Kitsugi. Immediately fell in love with it. I have not historically been a big sandalwood lover, but the way that it presents with the time, it's just, it's like an exhale. in perfume form that I just really, really love. And then like cozy stuff, which is why I said I'm kind of flirting with the Gourmand. So I got 45 by Trudon recently, and I think I've worn it like six times since I got it a week ago. Going through a lot of vanilla there. Luster by Alois Studios is also on my tray. I have a travel size of it. And tonight I am wearing Brutal by Demolish Studio. which is such a lovely amber floral. I always love saying I'm wearing Brutal because it is the least brutal fragrance I own, I think. But those are, and there are two custom blends by EPC. I have a travel size of each one. And I keep going, I might end up with a full size of both of them because I'm trying to figure out which one I want to upsize. But it is Cigarettes After Sex.

Michy: Hehehehehe

Christina: Mmm. Thanks.

Josh: and cashmere rice.

Michy: Ooh.

Christina: Those both sound good.

Josh: They're both very musky, very kind of clean, kind of dirty, kind of starchy, kind of sexy. Really easy to wear. I love a good musk. And I've worn both of them repeatedly. I have like a quarter of the 10 mils left. I'm like, I'm just gonna end up full sizing both of these. I could just feel it.

Michy: you Those sound really good. gotta give them a try. ⁓ So Christine, please tell people where they can find you.

Christina: Sure, so you can find me on driedowndiaries.substack.com and on TikTok and Instagram, it's driedowndiaries.

Michy: You should absolutely go check out Dry Down Diaries. It is amazing. You do such a great job. Thank you so much.

Christina: Thank you. Thank you guys so much for having me. I love listening to your podcast and it's been so nice to talk to you both. And thank you so much for what you're doing. There are lot of podcasts, fragrance podcasts I love, but you guys are filling a space that needed to be filled and having really important conversations. And I really appreciate it.

Michy: Thank you, we love you. Bye. ⁓