Josh: thank you everyone for joining us. This is the first episode of our October series where we're reframing the monsters. and welcome to the vampire. I'll let everyone introduce themselves. Emelia: hi, I'm Amelia. I go by Professor Perfume on social media. I love the vampire for many reasons. I was a big Twilight kid growing up and then I went on and got my master's degree from Trinity College in Dublin, where I studied Dracula. And I went and I got to see Bram Stoker's office and it completely reignited. my love for the vampire in adulthood. So here I am. Michelle DeLorenzo: Amazing. Jen Siems: Hello everybody, my name is Jen Seams and I am the perfumer at Immortal Perfumes. I think I am the oldest person in this chat today. So I'm gonna be dating myself quite a bit. I have loved vampires since I was a child watching media that I should not have been allowed to watch. The Lost Boys was probably the first vampire movie that I ever saw. And side note, I just saw the musical in New York over the summer and it's incredible. maybe even better than the movie actually. I also was I think maybe like seven or eight when Interview with the Vampire came out. And that was another instance of my parents making questionable media decisions for me because I watched that and I just remember being so terrified of Claudia, but also so intrigued by how powerful she was because I was like, I'm like her age. Could I do that. And growing up Catholic, I don't know, I think it gives it like a whole other level to it, which I'm sure we'll dive into later. LC James: Hi, I'm Elsie James. I go by nearly nose blind on social media. And similar to Jen, sneakily obtained media that was probably age inappropriate as a coping mechanism for being queer in West Tennessee, is probably where the vampire attachment comes from. I saw interview with the vampire at a slightly too young of an age after catching about 20 minutes of Queen of the Damned, which is Maybe no one's idea of a great vampire movie. and it also followed me to school as part of my art history studies, looked at the evolution of the monster after World War II. So am now just delighted to yap about the undead and the case studies in humanity that they are. Michelle DeLorenzo: Love it, love it. I Josh: Excellent. Thank you. Michelle DeLorenzo: was also way too young to watch all of those movies, but recently decided to rewatch Queen of the Damned. And I was like, wow, yeah, this is just as bad as I remember. But hopeful for the new series. LC James: It's amazing. Josh: I was just gonna say, meanwhile as we pulled together this episode, I was like, I wanna dress like the Lost Boys. That's really the vibe I'm going for. Michelle DeLorenzo: I love Les Boyce so Emelia: Absolutely. LC James: How bad. Michelle DeLorenzo: much. Emelia: Always. Jen Siems: You succeeded. It's great. Michelle DeLorenzo: So you did very, very good. So I think the big question that we're looking to answer with everyone here is why do darkness sensuality and fragrance become inseparable in so much art? So the first question I want to pose to anyone who wants to answer is why has the vampire endured over 200 years? Emelia: Such a big question. I feel like Michelle DeLorenzo: It is. Emelia: when I when I was reading through a lot of these, I'm like, okay, well, a lot of these are like master's thesis questions that we're we're gonna need some more time to talk, but how much time do you have? Can we LC James: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hehehehehe Emelia: can we actually become vampires to stay on this podcast forever? But I Michelle DeLorenzo: Hehehe. Emelia: think I think part of what makes the vampire endure is almost its proximity to human. So unlike other monsters where you have like zombie river creatures, even werewolves, who do have a human aspect to them, the vampire remains human. It has a charm to it. You can reason with it. You can beg for your life and it might be granted back to you. So I think there's There's a nearly human thing about them that we all know and love and they're always an option for us to prod into the darkest corners of ourselves and put a really cool costume on it. LC James: And if I could add to that what Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: you're saying about the rational monster, there it allows for this really interesting leveler of class and social status, which is wit. A lot of the vampire stories that evolve from folklore, particularly in Eastern Europe, and then make its way into our media, are a battle of wits, either with two of the undead or with a human. the the notion that you can have the monster for whom you can plead for your life or try to ransom yourself is really useful as a storytelling device. And also it's a sort of feeling adjacent to catharsis when you by proximity outwit someone. I think Michelle DeLorenzo: Bye. LC James: that the the notion that you can get one up on a vampire. And also thinking about immortality is nice. We have Faustian deals for a reason. Immortality's always going to be alluring to us, especially if it's beautiful. Jen Siems: Yeah, and I think also kinda piggybacking off of what you both said and kind of going back to what I was talking about before about growing up Catholic specifically. I've always been kind of a role follower. And even though I don't I consider myself culturally culturally Catholic, but not like a believer in all of the things that they say. And so even despite that, I still feel like sometimes I'm doing something and I'm just Like, no, is Jesus gonna be mad at me? Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm Jen Siems: And I think for me, imagining myself as a vampire or you know, self-inserting in some of these stories kind of gave me a safe space that I could, in my own mind anyway, be the villain that I like the powerful villain that I wish I could be, but I inevitably am too afraid to be. I'm also a deeply anxious person, and I think that. Horror in general is just a great way to be able to work out those fears in a safe environment, which is honestly, I think, a large reason why the story started in the first place. Like if you think about being, you know, a villager 400 years ago and not understanding the world around you, it's a great storytelling device to make meaning. Josh: I think finding meaning, especially in things that are uncomfortable or things that are unsaid, does repeatedly show up in many of the monster lores that we find. What are some of the cultural anxieties that continue to be embodied by the vampire in each iteration that we create? LC James: Queerness, transness, otherness, immigrants, bloodborne diseases. It can be a stand-in for HIV AIDS, anything that needs to move and blend and be human, as Amelia said earlier, but carry some kind of malevolence, you can put on a vampire. Easy peasy. Whether it's the freaky lady who apparently is bathing in the blood of virgins in some castle in Transylvania, Elizabeth Bathory did nothing wrong. This was all just overblown nonsense. Or it's it's Sam Reed as a blonde rock star. I mean, you can put that kind of like whatever cultural anxiety you want that you can make the vampire interesting enough to carry through. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: Otherwise it's just yawn. I'm watching a morality play. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Or sparkly vampires. Emelia: Yeah, I think it's always LC James: well Twilight's it's I will actually defend Twilight really hard because of Emelia: Ha ha ha LC James: what it became and also the specific kind of lens through which it's presented, which is a Mormon one. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, yeah, exactly. LC James: But yeah, I Abilia and I are super of of a Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: it's also Emelia: Listen, I love it, I hate it, do I watch it every year? Yes. Michelle DeLorenzo: I think if it's your your formative of vampire experience, then I think it opens the world for you. And I think like I look at it's the same reason why, like I look at the episode one, two and three of the Star Wars trilogy as not through such a horrible like these are the worst movies ever created kind of lens, because I was a kid when they came out and I enjoyed them. LC James: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: You know what I mean? They definitely have their place, but I think they have more of the restraint that we're not seeing. in other vampire stories, you know? Jen Siems: I also I was like maybe twenty-three or twenty-four when those books came out. And I actually read them at that age and I really loved them. And the reason why I loved them was because for me, I was just like, my gosh, I wish that somebody had written this when I was 13 years old because I was reading Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: it from the lens of past jen would have adored this. And now I have Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: a 13-year-old and she's obsessed. I took her to Forks last year. Stephanie Meyer signed her book. It was great. I will never go to Forks again, but it was great. Josh: Welcome to the fragrance files where we have justice for Twilight. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: hahahahah Emelia: Hahaha LC James: Also one of the few, at least in the film adaptation, there's a scene, and I went back and watched it where Bella's googling vampire myths. It's one of the few Emelia: It's so good. LC James: contemporary Western movies that acknowledges that there's global vampires, and many of them are not nearly as gentlemanly and refined. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: you want to go learn about something that'll keep you up at night? Filipino vampires. After home nothing. Michelle DeLorenzo: God. Josh: Mm-hmm. Emelia: No, not like on the vampire diaries where they only use Bing. Yeah. Josh: Product placement is important. Emelia: Product placement. Don't even get me started LC James: Is fair. Emelia: on the what it what is it? Like their mini mobile Wi Fi thing that they're using at a seance. It's incredible. It's so good. You have to watch it. You simply have to. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: God, I have to watch this. Josh: One of one of the things that really interested us in thinking about the monster genre and each of the monster personas through the lens of fragrance was storytelling. why does Scent seem so uniquely suited to the gothic storytelling that the vampire? Jen Siems: I think that you really see this in the realm of indie perfume. It really gives you the freedom to kind of explore things that aren't necessarily mainstream traditional sense. There's a lot of grief, decay, rot. which those are not words that you think fine fragrance with. And so I think Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: that for gothic stories especially, it really helps to kind of create that sensorial tableau, if you will. LC James: There's in terms of a storytelling device, Scent is really useful because it's a it's a great anchor for us as mortal readers. A lot of the vampiric experience when it's given to us directly, and if no one's figured out yet, my little domain is Anne Rice, then her ridiculous vampire chronicles. A lot of that is first person narration. There are things you go beyond the veil of comprehension. Like you can understand that the vampires are telepathic, but you don't know what telepathy feels like. so the descriptions of scent, which at least in the vampire chronicles are occasionally specific. Tragically, one of them is Aqua Digio, although that's actually not that bad, I shouldn't say that. that Michelle DeLorenzo: you LC James: is a great way for us to have some kind of sensory and narrative understanding and anchor, even more so when we're told that something smells like nothing. Very few things smell like nothing, at least living things. Michelle DeLorenzo: Sure. Josh: talking about fragrance and storytelling. this will be the first time we've ever interrupted an episode for a plug, but LC, can you tell us about the panel you're about to be on at Fumed? LC James: Yes, I can. So Justin, who's the perfumer behind John Robert, an excellent independent fragrance brand, recently collaborated with author Sarah Hinckley on her debut novel, The Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: Red Sacrament. this book is fantastic because it gathers together the kind of French people who would decide that they want to spend their entire immortal life in a theater company doing repertory theater. on the eve of A bunch of changes happening in France and these interesting new vampires from the Caribbean, if we're not entirely sure what's happening to them. This is I think it's quite difficult to write an original vampire novel. I think Sarah's done it. So Justin and I are going to talk a little bit about the creation process for that, what it means to take what has been put on a page and authorial intent and create a perfume out of that, as opposed to working with a brief. And we're also going to talk a little bit about how weird is too weird, sort of plugging into what Jen was saying. I appreciate you guys letting me do that plug and thank you all for your patience. And I also want to sidebar and say, Amelia, you recommended Vampires of El Norte. It's so Emelia: Did you eat it up? Did you drink it? Yep. Yeah. LC James: Destroyed it, devoured it. It was delicious. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hehehehehe Emelia: It was so good. Josh: So yes, there are tickets available for the panels at Fumed if you are going to be in Atlanta. Please check those out. El C is a speaker on two of the panels. It's gonna be phenomenal and we hope to see you there. Michelle DeLorenzo: what ways do you think fragrance mirrors the desire of the vampire? Jen Siems: I think it was in her book, so Mandy Aftel, the Queen of Independent Natural Perfume. I think it was in an essence in alchemy. I can't remember the specific quote, but she had a quote that was essentially saying that Shit smells good, which like sounds so weird, but she was talking about how like the magic is in the dosage, right? If you're using Indol or Civet or one of these like very anabolic, musky things. so I think that I think about that quote a lot, and I think it really applies to the vampire because it is something that is this body horror disgusting. thing, but at the same time, they are so sensual. And it's just kind of the duality of how a fragrance can land. And also the fact that we all experience fragrances differently. Like Elsie was talking about Aqua de Joe. That was my dad's signature scent. So when she said that I was like, I have like a totally different Michelle DeLorenzo: I'm sorry. Jen Siems: take on that. So I think that I think that aspect is really interesting. The kind of two sided coin of is this repulsive or is it sexy? LC James: There's a lot of and it's in Twilight, it's in interview, it's sort of in a lot of contemporary vampire fiction of the scent of blood and bloodlust. It gets called bloodlust and tangled up with our sexual desires, but it's expressed as this like olfactive desire, this intense, overwhelming scent. So if you're thinking about a parallel, I would argue that. We experience very few natural things to that level of intensity unless your face is maybe right in it or you're around something quite strong. but a fragrance, you know, something more concentrated and engineered. I don't know that anything smells like bloodlust, but it's a more intensile factive sensation. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm. LC James: which has now got me scheming about like pairing perfumes to different chapters of books. But these are all your questions are so fantastic and I feel like I need to be in class taking notes. Josh: I think it's really interesting 'cause Jen, it was actually just what you said. I have my little sample jar over here and I have been working through And it has this very like saliva and hair approach to it. And I was like, actually this could be a vampire. This like breathing down the neck, salivating over the idea. And there is this like sensuality to it, even though it is also kind of unnerving to be like, I have just sprayed myself copiously with the smell of saliva and hair. Michelle DeLorenzo: It's definitely the things that I think we learn to love and I struggle so much with blood notes in perfumes and I can respect, I think that's why I really enjoy the Nosferatu fragrance from Heretic, that it could have gone in that direction, but it didn't. It kept this really odd sort of unsettling quality about it without being drenched in blood. I know when we talked to Douglas when he was conceptualizing it, you know, that's where he took it initially, and, you know, altered it once he once he saw the film. you know, I really love the idea of kind of the abstract of that where it does feel like a very sad, lonely creature in the form of a fragrance to Josh: In talking about like the seduction of the vampire, what makes both the vampire feel seductive, but also fragrance lead us in that direction of this it doesn't have to be loud, it can pull you in, it can hypnotize you from across the room. LC James: The come to me motif we see in a lot of vampire media. So the call to the victim or to whomever it is. it's kind of comparable to a siren song. It's something that we find to have a near irresistible allure. I don't know if I could say psychologically what that is, but I do think that there are certain scent memories that embed ourselves in a, you know, like early on or after a certain event. and they have that same kind of evocative pull. That the other thing that's sort of interesting about a lot of vampire victims is they're not exactly at a great point in their life. There's something that's about to change or about to break. And there's there's an openness and a rawness to the seduction. So you have to be like, I think to a degree, looking for it. Emelia: I also think that there's an emphasis on closeness. I know that we have like beast mode fragrances that you can smell from a mile away. Keep those away from me. I think like the real Michelle DeLorenzo: Agreed. Emelia: intimacy comes when you're introduced to a fragrance by your proximity to the person. And I think that that sort of closeness is the same with the vampire, right? Because if they're feeding on you, they're right here. Whereas, you know, if you're discovering my fragrance, that means you're also right here. So there is this proximity, this closeness, this intimacy that I think is an interesting parallel between the two. Michelle DeLorenzo: think you've even answered our next question in that too, that can restraint be more sensual than excess in that sense? And I agree, when something is beast mode, I don't necessarily want to come closer. I don't want more intensity. I want to discover as I get closer, you know? LC James: There was that question made me think specifically of Bill from True Blood. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: that if you that's actually if you're gonna read a series of vampire novels, this other vampire series is so good. And one of one of the customs Michelle DeLorenzo: I read every single one. LC James: that Charlene Harris abides by is that vampires need to be invited into your house. And Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: so there are many moments in my reading of those books where I'm not sure if Bill is not entering the house out of respect. Or if it's because at some point Sucky's asked him not to. And there's there's something quite charming and sad about not knowing why someone's not coming in. There, and and we see that also in sinners. and Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: the call is even more intense, the restraint to not go outside, the restraint to not go see those people. so it's when does the seduction make you value the unknown more than your life? Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Jen Siems: I have a side note since you brought up Bill from Trueblood. So when the first season of that show was on the air, I was living in Los Angeles at the time and my friends and I were having brunch and the actor who plays Bill walked in and it was the the restaurant was full of, you know, 20 Three 24-year-old women, such as myself. And there was an audible gasp, and all of the eyes like followed him across the room. And then me being LC James: Yes. Michelle DeLorenzo: You Jen Siems: crazy, I was like, where's Alexander Scar's card? I like waiting for him to come. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hehehehehe Jen Siems: but like you just reminded me of that, and it was so interesting how even the people portraying these beings just kind of almost become like an immortal person themselves, just Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: like from that kind of an interaction. LC James: Yeah. That was the appropriate Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, think it's... LC James: reaction. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, I think it's... Jen Siems: Yeah. He looked good. He looked good. Yeah, yeah. We were we were all making jokes about that. LC James: Can you say it just once, please? It's okay. Michelle DeLorenzo: I definitely think it's put Alexander Skarsgard in the forefront of weird, off the norm sexual movies, because I think it's a generation of people who are just obsessed with him from True Blood. Jen Siems: Yeah, I remember one season, I don't remember what season it was. They had a teaser for it, and it was just him, and it was like right after he got the haircut. I feel like once he got the haircut, LC James: Yep. Jen Siems: he was like extra hot. And he Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: was like, he had blood like coming down his face, and he also like had it on his hands, and he was like licking it up. And I was I was like, I really am the worst Catholic. Like going straight to hell. Yes! LC James: I think that teaser and I think it was set to a depeche mode song. I think it was set to corrupt you. Jen Siems: Yes! my gosh, you're so right. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. Jen Siems: was so good. LC James: That that was a that was a something burned into my memory. If maybe I maybe I'm okay. Maybe I don't like girls. no, I s I like boys too. Jen Siems: Ha ha Josh: I mean, as a a closeted queer person in the South, I remember there was like a a scene of the clip where he had the dream about Suki's brother. And LC James: Yes. Josh: I was like, Michelle DeLorenzo: my god, yeah. Josh: who do I know with HBO? LC James: What are they looking at? Josh: I need research. LC James: Tak. Michelle DeLorenzo: God. I love that. LC James: But that's a good Michelle DeLorenzo: Sorry. Good. LC James: it's a great example of just as the audience, the permission we're given to indulge. It like Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: it, what you said is so true about being thirteen or fourteen or fifteen and and somewhat powerless and the notion that I can I can put myself in the mind of the villain or or with the capacity of it. And in the audience, I think you get that too. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, I really appreciate a true blood a lot too for for really showcasing gay relationships too, because I feel like that was it was implied in in, you know, other vampire stories, it was kind of erased in the original interview with the vampire it was maybe hinted at. But, you know, really that that their deep connection was kind of just didn't make sense. And I think it's why the movie felt disconnected watching it years later. So I'm really, I'm so happy that those books existed and that show had such success because of the queerness being so front and center in a lot of it. Josh: why are the monsters, why is the vampire so often becoming a vehicle for expressing these desires that society struggles to talk about? LC James: There's no moral constriction on monsters. We don't have an expectation of stereotypical social behavior. They are they drink our blood. They are they exist somewhere above the food chain for us. So we don't, I think, have the same reaction that we would if a human is doing something. Although you might. I mean, there were some responses to season three of Interview with the Vampire. because of the relationship between Gabrielle and Lestat, where people really had a a moral issue with it. But Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: but for the most part, I think it's because we don't expect monsters to play nicely. Emelia: I do think the reaction to the season three is hilarious because it's kind of like, that's where you draw the line. That's Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: I was gonna say that's a that's like of all of the things, I mean this is Emelia: the problem. That's the worst thing. Michelle DeLorenzo: You Emelia: Gosh. Golly. Are we watching the same LC James: Okay, this is this it was Emelia: show? Jen Siems: I was I was more offended by her Italian accent. I was like, please. She's so great. But I was just LC James: We s and she's such a good actress. Emelia: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: like, come on now. Except for every time LC James: What we doing? Jen Siems: that she said okay, I was like, yeah, that sounds Italian. Okay. Okay. Michelle DeLorenzo: goodness. Josh: Yeah, I think Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: there's there is definitely something to talk about there where it there is no morality to the monster. We don't have to worry about that. But in what similar ways can fragrance be a way for people to then safely experiment with their own identities and desires? Emelia: think it's the best way to experiment trying on a new identity because it doesn't make you change anything about yourself. You know, I think when most of us are going through a dilemma, the first thing we run to is, you know, we go to Walgreens, we buy the hair dye, we buy a leather jacket, we buy I don't know, some we buy we go in and we cut our own bangs. You know, the first thing when you want to Jen Siems: Ha ha. Emelia: say, I'm changing something about myself. I'm different now. You want it to be this sort of external thing so people know. Hey, I've changed something about myself. But that can be scary. That can be imposing. That can feel like, no, I'm forced into this now. What if I try it on and I don't like it? I think what fragrance allows us to do is to try on a new persona for a day and say, okay, while I'm wearing this, I'm gonna portray this about myself. I'm gonna be this. And it also makes it a much more internal experience as well. Because we're changing something externally about yourself, it becomes about external validation. When you're doing it with fragrance, it becomes a more personal thing. So you could say, okay, here's my fragrance that I'm gonna be portraying myself as edgy and different, and I'm wearing this really interesting niche fragrance. Why is nobody asking me about my very interesting niche fragrance? But Michelle DeLorenzo: You Emelia: you know. You know, and you have a point of pride that's for anyone who would identify it and come along and recognize it, then you would say, you're like me. So I think fragrance is this really magical way to experiment with identity. Maybe before you're ready to commit, before you're ready to say, you know, what are these things that I know about myself? Just try it on. Just take a sample, see if you like it, see if it fits. Jen Siems: I think it also really helps people learn to stop caring what other people think. in in my shop I do what I call fragrance fittings where people will come in and they'll tell me, you know, I I call it perfume therapy. Like I ask them all these weird questions and they tell me how they want their perfume to make them feel. And this is obviously a not all men thing, Josh. But I've seen a lot of times, especially with married hetero couples, a woman will love a fragrance, and then the man is like. Like, that's terrible. I don't want I don't want you to wear that. Like, I just hate it. And every time that that happens, it just like a light goes out of her eyes. And what I enjoy is when Women kind of have the light bulb go off. That's like, it actually doesn't matter what you think. I'm not around you all the time. I can wear whatever I want. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: And I think that fragrance is really something that as long as it makes you happy, and you know, of course, like don't spray it on the airplane, but you know, it's not hurting anybody else. So again, with the safe environment of trying new things. Michelle DeLorenzo: let's talk about the way that vampires express fear and mortality in the Victorian times. And does this extend into a more modern vampire? Emelia: So I mean I I think Victorians had a very different relationship with death than we do now today. And I I would conflate it as referring to the vampire as undead versus now immortal. So Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Emelia: Victorians had a very short life expectancy. They were operating on a completely different lifetime wheel. working completely different jobs. Hygiene levels, crazy, streets, filthy, Jack the Ripper at large. You know, they go to the factory, they're working their heavy machinery job next to a twelve year old who's hammered off of beer that he made in his toilet. You know what I mean? It's just not good quality of life. So I think They almost ran death like a business. Do you know what I mean? It was just very matter-of-fact. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Emelia: This was something that happened. This is something they told their kids about. They have all of these superstitions. They have all of these little things that they do. They have periods of mourning. whereas we're just we almost have more of a fear of death now. Where Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Emelia: I just saw an Instagram post today where it was comparing Ages portrayed on screen. So it was like a sixty-year-old woman on screen in like nineteen ninety-five versus a sixty-year-old woman today. And it's night and day difference. You know, you have to be babyface until you die now. So I think what the vampire now offers us is this magical gleaming immortality. This you get to be young and alive forever. You'll never age, you'll never change, you'll even glimmer in the sun. Whereas in the Victorian age, it was so much more I think a fear and anxiety, really, of a cultural shift, especially when Dracula was published at the turn of the century. England is, you know, just Everything is anxious. Everything is everything being published at the time was like a reverse colonization, fear mongering thing. and Dracula's not Dracula is a little bit that as well. So I think that I don't know. You just look at the the comparisons between the vampires now, which are humanized and you know, morally gray but still kinda sexy, versus like the Dracula of eighteen ninety seven, which is just so much more of like This fear of England becoming this failing political imperial power. LC James: I'll point to this go to my source material. The second oddest vampire chronicle is Blood Canticle. the first is Blackwood Farm, which is my second favorite. The opening of Blood Canticle is an angry Lestat. It's a Lestat who is pissed off that his previous entries into the vampire chronicles, Mimnoch the Devil in particular, was not well received. It mirrors a journey that Anne Rice takes, which is an atheism and a Catholicism, and then a reckoning collectively with her spirituality. And Lestat points to a couple of things in this this manic opening screen to the reader. And one of them is I want to have I want to be a saint and I want to have my name on t-shirts. There's there's a sexualization. And a commodification of the vampire for what Amelia said, for what it can offer us for this glimpse at immortality. And in that way, it's a big conversation about nihilism. And it's a big conversation about existential despair. Because every time somebody wants to be a vampire a little too bad, they're not cut out for it. They're not gonna make it. And I would be even more of a conspiracy theorist and say, If you look at any contemporary vampire story, if there is anyone born old enough to remember 9-11, death doesn't shock them in the same way that previous death would shock people. So we have to in our contemporary lives confront the reality of death, even though we're terrified of it. And and the vampire offers us a reprieve. and I think it's just as concerned with social behavior and social regularity. And I look at that like through media, like the vampire has been slutted up. You know, if you if you look at the first iterations of the vampire on screen, it is a it's a looming, scary incarnation of our fears. And now it's Jacob Anderson, too, is just really good looking. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: This isn't this is kind of tangential to what Amelia was saying, but kind of like taking it back to Dracula and also taking it back to like the history of fragrance. something else that's pretty interesting is that Dracula has a lot of like modern technology in it, you know, like typewriters, blood transfusions, all that stuff. And that was also the point in history when synthetics were becoming a thing in fragrance. And so I don't really have a point to this other than to say, like, I think it's really interesting that we're having this discussion because fragrance really does like there is a through line there. and at the time most of the fragrances were gonna be, you know, mostly those single note you know, rose, orange blossom, whatever. And then also going back to what Amelia was saying, about the the lovely scents of Victorian England. That was also the point where they had the fabulous accessories, like the little vinaigrette and scent bottles and chatelains and everything. And so I mean that's like something else I would want to do. In addition to the vampire scent wardrobe, I would also want to do the vampire jewelry and scent bottle wardrobe as well, Michelle DeLorenzo: yes. Jen Siems: right? Michelle DeLorenzo: It feels like I don't know if it's just my FYAP, but I and I've been saying that I want I want the the fragrance paraphernalia to come back. I want the necklaces and I want the keychains and I want I want all of these things to be popular again. And I feel like I'm starting to see more brands put out these products. And I'm like, yes, people are listening. Like I can't wait. I can't wait for this moment where we're where we're collecting pretty little things again for our fragrance. Josh: I think it's interesting when we conceptualize the episode, it particularly around the Gothic vampire, Dracula, the vampire, and kind of how that has stemmed into modern culture, but there is this separate subgenre of the vampire that we've kind of skirted around a little bit with like Thirty Days of Night and The LC James: Yeah. Josh: Strain, Blood Red Skies. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: Where we are still very much embodying the vampire on the fringes of society as an apex predator, as a contagion. And I think it's very Blood Red Skies, I think I love that movie, even though it's like not great, because it's such a a a way to grip people in the fear of a post-9 eleven plane incident LC James: Yeah. Josh: with the idea of the vampire as a contagion. And I don't really have an input in a question here. It's just we have this subset of vampire that we've kind of ignored in the rest of the questions. That they are these these beasts still. LC James: there's another, if anyone's interested, an author named Justin Cronin. I think it's the twelve, and then the chosen, kind of following on those threads of Dracula. It's Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm. LC James: an engineered vampire, essentially. A the the general gist is that a group of death row inmates who were supposed to be executed were instead brought to a facility they were experimented on. And it is the mo it is like I don't know what and how much was consumed. That's illegal in most states when it was put together. But it's it's a fun read. And it is again that contagion. When you can bottle up the thing that you can't fight, you get a little bit of hope because you can't bottle up Andrax. I mean, you could let's not get this episode flagged. Those sorts of things, the miasma, maybe that goes back Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. LC James: a little bit to Victorian sensibilities about hygiene and sanitation, like the notion of a miasma. can be embodied, which is never exactly good smelling, is it? Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: Well, they also back then and even earlier, they thought that bad smell was actually the sickness, like because they didn't have the concept of germ theory. So yeah, I totally 100% agree with your point. I was also gonna bring up since we were talking about vampires that we've kind of skirted around, we haven't talked about the lady vampires. Like we gotta talk about Carmilla, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Jen Siems: we gotta talk about Dowry of Blood, which was like one of my favorite books I've read in last 10 years. I don't know. know if anybody here has anybody read We Love the Nightlife? you absolutely need to. LC James: No. Writing this down now. Michelle DeLorenzo: Thank you. Jen Siems: so it's it's not it's like kind of sapphic, Emelia: Really like hello. Jen Siems: but it's not, it's more like toxic lady friendships. And LC James: Please. Jen Siems: I think I personally really relate to it because part of the story takes place in 2006. And that was like my time in LA as like a hipster and like going to all the clubs and everything. And so they're like talking about music that I know. So like that I loved it. And then also just like the whole concept of the toxic best friends. I was like, my God, I see so many people that I knew in this story. you all absolutely have to read it. It's so good. but yeah, Michelle DeLorenzo: It's the list. Jen Siems: I I think it's so interesting how many villainous women we have in the genre. And it also goes back to what we were talking about before about power. And I also think it's an interesting subversion in terms of, you know, normally we think of women as, you know, mothers and the givers of life. And in this instance, they're taking it away. And so, like, in some respects, I feel like women vampires are even more scary. For that reason. Josh: I think after reading Carmilla and experiencing the perfume that you made around her as as a character, my other real like introduction to the interesting way a female vampire subverts a lot of the the ideas that underpin them was actually the Castlevania anime, where they had the the th the three four women that ran the vampire empire. Jen Siems: Yes. So good. Yes. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: they're so good. I love it. LC James: Pulled this thread too, actually, because Anne Rice has a problem writing female characters. a lot of them. And and we arrive at perhaps the most like there there's there's three kind of interesting case studies here. the first is Petronia, who you might not meet until you read Blackwood Farm, who is what what we would call intersex. And when it is convenient for Tarquin Blackwood, the narrator, To have Petronia assume certain more masculine or feminine traits, that's what's imposed upon them. Gabrielle is also wickedly interesting because if you're a woman reading about an Italian duchess who had a beautiful life in northern Italy, who gets shipped off to the Auvergne, which at this time is like I think the French word is empluc, like a hick, like you are from like nowhere. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: That is that now I'm rotting in a castle with a shitty husband and I'm dying of consumption. My son gave me my life back. I'm supposed to what mother him the whole time? No, I'm finging off to explore the rest of the world. And that Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: tragically shapes Lestat in many ways. I think for a lot of women, we're like, you're absolutely right. Because even though I'm immortal, I still have to live around men. Not all Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: of them, of course, but Many of them. So we get that complication. And then the last one, the deeply problematic one, is Merrick, who is a who is a biracial magic practitioner who becomes a vampire through her own purposes. She, the witch, seduces the vampires and essentially dupes them into turning her into one. The Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: kid we could do many hours on all of these all of these characters. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: what is the kind of difference between a perfume with a gothic aesthetic and with the gothic sensibilities? Jen Siems: I think it's about setting the scene. I think with aesthetic, like it's usually like the codes of what it means to be gothic. So, you know, like the blood, the candle wax, stone stairs, what have you. And I think that the sensibility is having the whole story behind it, the whole scene behind it. And yeah, I don't mean that as like any kind of like a gatekeeping type of thing. And I think that if people, you know, are trying out a new aesthetic to, you know, just try it out, kind of like what we were talking about before, I think that's great. I don't think that there's necessarily like There's no test to see if you deserve to like wear a gothic perfume. Like you don't have to be a goth to wear it, if that makes sense. Josh: Name three other Bram Stroker novels. Like yeah, that's Michelle DeLorenzo: D Josh: not not a a purity test. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha I know Elsie's biting biting her tongue so much right now. LC James: That which is subversive is subversive until someone with a lot of money decides that it's cool. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: At the same time, I want more darkness and strangeness in the world. And so while I might have my own personal opinions about something being derivative, I Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: think it's for the good. And I'd rather see it be a little dark and spooky and odd. Than than the same sort of thing I see every other day. So I'm exercising restraint in the hopes that it will become seductive at some point. Jen Siems: I agree hundred percent. There has to be like an entry point for the baby goths to come join LC James: Yes. Jen Siems: us. Josh: what elements of perfume speak to the vampire to each of you personally? Jen Siems: For me, it is, and this is very much informed because I know what Bella Legossi wore. it for me the vampire is this old world, very elegant, classic fragrance. but that's not I guess I shouldn't generalize because that's not every vampire. Like that's more of the like aristocratic, Byronic hero vampire. that's not Eric Northman or Bill, I forget his last name. but I would say like when I think of vampires, I tend to think of very like old-world fragrances. Emelia: I like to think of them as kind of like what you were saying, as like kind of a case by case basis, but I like to think of them kind of as you know the way they say celebrities kind of stay at the age they became famous. That's how I think vampires are. So I think that, you know, they grow when they adapt with the times and they might find something that they really like, but I think that their tastes and sensibilities will kind of always hearken back to What they enjoyed in their human life. Jen Siems: I think you could extrapolate that to aging in general because I definitely feel like I'm Emelia: Definitely. Jen Siems: s still gravitating towards the stuff that I loved in, you know, 20 years ago. I feel so old. Emelia: Yeah, absolutely. LC James: I want to mirror the capacity to be seductive. I feel more empowered to do that with a perfume than I do really with any other part of who I am. Because once I open my mouth, it's all just downhill from there. So everything Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: that I really enjoy about the vampire is both a case study and being human. And the capacity to be ineffably hot and also sexy. And I feel Jen Siems: Yeah. LC James: that that goal is achieved more quickly with with the perfume. The the rare occasion when your fragrance does make enough of an impression on someone for them to remember it in a passionate way. You know, I I think we all get compliments a lot. Those sort of intimate compliments are more rare. And I sort of I like sort of stealing away and treasuring those very much. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. so now now the fun part I think that I've I've clearly been very excited to do. So we're gonna get into the vampire wardrobe. So what perfumes would you pull for the following vampire? And we'll start we'll go in order here and we'll start with Dracula. Jen Siems: Bella Legossi, he was the guy who like basically created the film version of Dracula as we know it. He did it was like a press tour or something in the 30s for a movie, and they asked him what his favorite fragrance was. And he's and this is gonna sound boring to us because it has a different meaning than what it meant then. but he said Eau de Cologne. And at the time, that meant either Farina Oda. cologne because that's what it was called, or it meant that you know you went to your local druggist apothecary type person and they would whip up an eau de cologne based on their formula book. so Because I know that, like I I I tend to like say that for him. and he was also kind of my first experience with Dracula. My dad was a big old Hollywood movie buff. And I actually the first iteration of Dracula I ever saw was a comedy. It was Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein, and it was from I think it was like from the thirties or forties, and Bella Legossi was in it playing his character of Dracula. but I saw that before I actually saw the original Dracula. So yeah. Emelia: Feel like I would give him just like a very luxurious rose bath oil. I think when I think of like film adaptation of Dracula, my favorite is Francis Ford Coppola's. I just think Jen Siems: yeah. Emelia: the costumes in that film alone like haunt me every day of my life. They're so good. But I think specifically where he's got the wig like up to the ceiling and he's got the robe. completely out the door and it's just this glorious red robe. So to me I'm like, you know, he's gotta be taking an incredible bath somewhere. So he definitely smells, I think, like rose oil. Obviously like decaying flesh as well, but I think we're masking it with a rose oil for sure. Michelle DeLorenzo: right. Number two. And please, if I if there are tons, we have nine examples here, but if there is somebody else you want to throw in, please do. but number two, let's do Carmilla. LC James: is a little bit of a gimme, but it's very sapphic and barely there and has another literary inspiration. But juice once the caille secret? not so much Le Bagdon. I think that's a little too intense for this. Michelle DeLorenzo: so beautiful. Mm. LC James: This is in a lesbian way hot and also sexy. Like I would I would be haunted by whoever wore this near me and Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Mm-hmm. LC James: I didn't get to interact with. Josh: My my thoughts were a cop out and it was Carmilla by Immortal Perfumes. It set me on this path to like r yeah. Yeah, I mean it's such a I Jen Siems: Thank you. That was that was very nice of you, thank you. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. LC James: hoping that was the plug. I was really hoping Jane was willing to do that. Emelia: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha Josh: think when I first smelled it and reviewed it for the first time, I was like, this is a hot bitch perfume. Like she is sh it's so Jen Siems: my gosh, that's exactly what I was going for. Thank you. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha Josh: cool. And then when I read the book, 'cause I actually read it after I explored the the perfume collection, I was like, yeah, I see it. This is so cool. Michelle DeLorenzo: Thank you. Jen Siems: I love that. I also would say Bloody Wood by Liquid Imaginaire. And Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Jen Siems: partially because, you know, it it does have like a bit of a blood note. I would say it skews more unisex. And I feel like Carmilla wouldn't necessarily, like, she would kind of want to smell like. Almost like she's cosplaying Dracula, if that makes sense. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: just because like in that world, like men have all the power. So I feel like she's the type of person that would like wanna have like a masculine element to her fragrance. Emelia: I gonna pick Dom Rosa from the same brand because Jen Siems: that's a good one. Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Emelia: I also think it's got like the these very sensual elements to it. And every time I smell it I'm like I'm coming, I'm following you, I'm behind you. I'm gonna enjoy your s I'm gonna enjoy Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: Yeah. Emelia: your scent cloud in a non-creepy way. Michelle DeLorenzo: Next is Interview with a Vampire and you can choose any vampire from the series you'd like to represent. Josh: See, I feel like you probably have a few pulled. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah, I know, I know Elsie does. LC James: I have all of them pulled and I can run through them pretty quickly. so Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: there's a break between Blood Canticle and Prince Lestat, where Anne Rice decides to get a grip and tell a story instead of sort of a a human case study. And in one of those, Lestat's attempting to make up to Louis. So he fills a New Orleans apartment with grand new trappings and a special fine French perfume. There's an Arquise fragrance called Lorge Louis, which is inspired by the opulence Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: of Versailles. So I also Lestat enjoys crushed velvet and cameo buttons. The taste is not subtle or restrained. And so for Louis, sort of on behalf of Lestat, I have Lord Louis. For Lestat himself, Lubon Idole, again, French decadence, from a sort of historic brand. and just it's it's just really fucking good. If you have never gotten your nose on idole, you should. I can I can I can fire these off just a couple more very quickly. Akasha is this lovely new brand who that must have been what's fallen off. It's SSK Labs. If you'd like an ethnically Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: sourced muscrajour, their myrrh is fantastic. There's another one that's by Braincode Sti Divilat, and I'm probably saying that wrong. but it's the deal blue, the blue god, which uses a Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: lot of broom flower, which is something I think is very Akasha appropriate. and then Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: Gabrielle is I we can maybe come back to her, but the one I have for Claudia is maybe my favorite. It's Laventura Cotillion. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ooh, yeah. LC James: really, really talented perfumer collectively with a great sense of story. I got kicked out of Catilian. this is sort of a whisper of of linen and crinoline and humidity on a summer day. And there's a great scene in Queen of the Damned where Jessie is haunted by the ghost of Claudia. And there's this incredible depiction of her symptoms that are olfactive and and kinetic. And I think that that house boarded up smelled like laventura cotillion. So that's that's what I got. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm, love it. Emelia: no, I was also gonna put Lestat in a heritage French perfumery house. I was gonna put him in Bois d'Armini from Gerlain and I was gonna say he's so pissed that it's discontinued. I know he has a backstock, like he has a backstock, but he's pissed about it. and then I also Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm. Yeah. LC James: He's so disappointed. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha LC James: Yes. Emelia: think I think Louis not necessarily fragrance, but I feel like he definitely is like an Aesop soap Loeve tomato hand soap haver. Definitely. And he's he probably really likes the Lilabo City exclusives. Cause I feel like he's just very much like, Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. Emelia: I've been here, I've done that, I'm a world traveler, look at all my things, you know. So I feel like he's Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Emelia: I feel like he's really into the Lilabos. Jen Siems: I didn't pull one for them separately, but like Louie and Lestat together, like I I anomalia, it's called narcotic boemic, and this is just like an extremely musky, like they're ravaging each other type of scent. So I would say this is more like the scene perfume. Michelle DeLorenzo: I I only pulled one for Lestat and it's it this is very specifically Tom Cruise's Lestat and very specifically one scene Jen Siems: Ha ha Michelle DeLorenzo: when he's when he's playing the piano and they've you know they've already attempted to kill him and there you know there's the the breeze through the through the through the curtain and you kinda can't tell what his face looks like. And so I pulled Death by Vanity from Rivendare by David Clark. And, you know, because the the inspiration behind this fragrance is also you know, the makeup that they were wearing during the Victorian times, the sort of they wanted this pale, almost deathly look, but not realizing that the lead in the makeup was slowly poisoning them and killing them. So it just kind of had this, it has this gorgeous duality of really bright, beautiful iris and and but then as it dries down, it gets kind of dark and almost almost a little decaying. So I think that one for that specific scene and that specific listat Okay, next on the list is Nosferatu either nineteen twenty two or twenty twenty four. Josh: So the nineteen twenty twenty-two event nineteen twenty-two is one of my all-time favorite movies. And I picked one out for this one, and that is Smoke Toad by Eyeball Studios. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: it this is like a freshly lit stick of incense. It is that fire right as it's snuffed out into smoke, and I do think of that iteration of Nosphara too as the shadow on the stairs. the the moving kind of all encompassing pressure in a room, the way that instance shifts the energy. so I I selected that one. Jen Siems: I preferred the nineteen twenty two version over the newer one. and I was gonna say kind of the same as you with the shadows on the castle walls and everything. Lariza Legrand, what is that one called? Relique D'Amore. I just I it's my favorite, like kind of stone steps, church incense kind of a fragrance and it just reminds me of that. Josh: I think we would be remiss to Emelia: I think on a Josh: say that Nosferatu by Heretic in collaboration with the twenty twenty four film probably fits that a little bit. LC James: I appreciate both of those films for very different reasons? it's Eggers, right? Robert Eggers Josh: Mm-hmm. LC James: is his last name. I enjoy his work. in particular, Alexander Skarsgard playing a lysom. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: That's always a great time. but there's a discontinued regime de Fleury, I it's called Golden Leaves. the the motifs in the 2024 Nosferatu and Lily Rose Depp make me think of flowers that you've kept in a vase too long that have that have died and dried. so they sort of look still passable, but they've got that subtle scent of rot. And that's what that perfume is without being indolic. It's just this very strange Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: must. And that that again that miasma that kind of is unsettling over everything. Emelia: I went on a much more deeply unserious tone with the Jen Siems: Ha ha. Emelia: Nosferatu. and I pulled for him dove sensitive, Listerine, and I think a little lavender Marvice would be really LC James: Top. Emelia: cute for him. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha. Josh: I definitely thought you were about to say the SpongeBob perfume just due to the cameo. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: Ha Emelia: That would also you know what? Anything would be cute for him. He needs something. Something. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha Okay, next one is sinners. LC James: this is the one I went back and forth on a lot. there like I'm a white chick who grew up in the South, so my proximity to African American spirituality is only through second and third hand accounts. I do not want to try to make myself sound like the missing member of American horror story coven. That being said, when you're in the houses of people who practice a lot of African American or African there's a gorgeous combination of orange spice and tea, at least in my experience. And that's my dog being knocked over things. so for that reason, I pulled Chris Collins African Roybos. that is I think a bit of a simmer pot. and then For sort of the the collective of of River Dancing Revenants, I have something that I actually find pretty spooky as a perfume. It's Nasimano Blumage. It might just be that my bottle's a little Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-mm. LC James: older, but it's this weird, like cyanotic apple seed musk. But it's like the snap of a hospital glove that's latex. in this way that's alluring and incredibly off-putting, and you're sort of aware that this is not a natural. Scent. So that that feeling of foreboding. Couldn't find anything with a strong garlic note. But Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: maybe somebody else had a better handle on that than me. Michelle DeLorenzo: Wild garlic from Aramag. LC James: There you go. Perfect. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hmm. There you go. Let's move on to only lovers left alive. Jen Siems: This is one of my all-time Josh: I think I Jen Siems: favorite movies. I love this movie so much. I dating myself again, like 10 years ago, there was this Instagram trend where you had to pick your three fictional characters. And this was like right after the movie came out, and also Downtown Abbey had just started. So my characters were Lady Mary from Downtown Abbey, Dark Lily from the 1985 Tim Curry Masterpiece Legend, and I said while I strive to be a Tilda Swinton Eve vampire, I am more of an Ava, unfortunately. I think that Ava would wear something like like Black Opium or Carolina Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: Mm-hmm. Jen Siems: Herrera good girl, whereas Eve would wear like An atar of Moroccan rose from some alley shop in a bazaar in Tangiers. And then Adam would probably wear like an eau de cologne that he got like either from Farina 200 years ago or from an apothecary also 200 years ago. And he just has the same bottle and just like wears a drop at a time. Josh: I love that. I was thinking about like some of the really cool chic women I get to see walking around Detroit. and then I thought about Eve as a character, and I pulled Wolf X straight by Wolf Brothers. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: because it is on first appearance, it's this very lovely kind of peppery plum fragrance. And then the more you're around it, the more peculiar it gets. And there's these kind of purposeful, raw edges. on this perfume that you're kinda like, wait, what are we doing? And that reminded me a lot of how Tilda Swinton kind of embodied that character. Michelle DeLorenzo: next one is True Blood. Any character from True Blood. for this one too, but I'll wait. LC James: Vicky Snackhouse wears several different wonderful Bath and Body Works body sprays. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: Definitely does. LC James: She hoarded the sleep black chamomile when it came out at Christmas a Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: few times, and you could get a couple of different versions of it, and it was like a buy three, get three semi-annual situation. this does give me a chance to put Bill in a blocky perfume. Which I think is always really Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: fun. Josh: Yeah. LC James: because that brand has been around for a hot minute. So it would not surprise me at all to see him in something like Kishishko, maybe, which is this icy cold fur with a gunpowder element. and Lafayette smells fucking fabulous. He saw a Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. LC James: bottle of Tom Ford fucking fabulous, and he got it. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. LC James: And you better be fing polite when you get your burger. I know he's not quite a vampire, but I think it It's hard not to talk about Lafayette. Josh: I think Pam would wear probably any of those annoying X traits by Born to Stand Out, the like dark red bottles. That just in Pam's personality needs to be as overwhelming as possible. Jen Siems: Ha ha. LC James: Pam is the kind of person who, if she was standing next to you at a perfume convention selling, would mist the air with thirty-four sprays of whatever she had. So that that Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: was the only thing that you could have possibly Josh: Mm-hmm. LC James: in your nose as you walked through. Michelle DeLorenzo: Absolutely, she would. Emelia: I think she'd also just be spraying you as you walked by. No LC James: Yeah. Jen Siems: Yeah. Emelia: questions asked. She's just here. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Yeah. I pulled one for Eric Northman and again I'm getting really way too hyper specific. But after Eric loses his memory and then accidentally Jen Siems: Ha ha Michelle DeLorenzo: drinks from Suki and then realizes that he can go out into the sun afterwards. So I picked Hirandella from Andre Simone, which is this really quite an animalic scent, but again has this sort of darkness and lightness that it's playing with. And but in the opening and and much through the mid, there's like sunflowers and immortel that kind of reads like honey. And it just feels like playing in the sunshine for me. So I think I think Eric would Eric with no memory would wear Herendel. Emelia: I feel like that one works really well because he describes Sookie's scent as like sunlight and hay or something like that in one of the episodes. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Emelia: I have it in a note in my phone, but I feel like that's a double it works doubly well. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. And this has quite a heavy dose of like that sort of like straw hay feeling too. Yeah. Gorgeous fragrance if you can ever get your nose on Next up, what we do in the shadows. Jen Siems: The T V show or the movie? Josh: I think either one, but I had Jen Siems: Okay. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: a really dumb thought for the T V show. LC James: Same. Josh: I specifically thinking of Nandor would be anything by boy smells, 'cause he would just be Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: like, It smells like the boys. Jen Siems: Ha. Emelia: Ha ha ha Michelle DeLorenzo: I can't imagine him wearing anything other than Dracard Noir for some reason just because I would love to hear him say Dracard Noir. Jen Siems: Ha ha Emelia: Ha ha ha. LC James: Not I pulled Alloy Studio Faux only because of the I'm going to cut off your skin, wear it like a coat, like a dress. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yes. LC James: do you like him? He's a dress now. That whole Jen Siems: Ha ha LC James: situation that I can't keep for bearing with my accent. But that I think Bryson is ridiculously talented, and that Michelle DeLorenzo: so talented. LC James: perfume feels like you've fallen into the bottom of an old handbag that's worn next to her coat. and also I think that Laszlett would wear Katarina's dinner party and I think we would get an obnoxious story about he he somehow knew like Katarina de' Medici's great great grand nie says, we all went to bed together with the jester too and my lovely this and this. Like any vehicle he has to promulgate pansexual chaos, he will take. And this Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. LC James: is like lemon and melted ice cream and super sexy musk at the end. Jen Siems: Okay, so for Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Jen Siems: Laszlo, I was kind of thinking the same as you. And I was thinking Malmaison by Florist because that was what Oscar Wilde wore. And I was like, he was probably friends with Oscar Wilde. Like they probably slept together, so that's absolutely what he would wear. LC James: He just stole perfume from his liaisons. That's actually what I think happened even more, is that he just like, if he saw a shiny, he just took it. And then there's Jen Siems: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. LC James: a five-minute sketch of him showcasing all of the like famous, sexually ambiguous Josh: Okay. LC James: people that he's Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. Jen Siems: Okay, so we need a video of Laszlo, kind of how Michelle is with the perfume wall behind him, but it's all his stolen perfumes. Michelle DeLorenzo: I'd imagine Leslo would wear probably Sinoco from La no sorry, Lasarine from Sinyoko. The one that smells like Katherine the Great after she's had an orgy. Jen Siems: Ha ha ha. Michelle DeLorenzo: right, last yep. Josh: And then I think that the last one we had was Blade. I did pull one for this and it's not a deep cut, it's the obvious one. But thinking about the blood rave, I pulled Soul Jen Siems: The best scene. Josh: Midnight by SW19. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: so this is at on paper, it is cherry liqueur and chocolate and gensing, but as it warms up, it gets really sweaty and kind of energetic. And I was like, Yeah, I would wear this to a blood rave. Give me like Michelle DeLorenzo: yeah. Josh: chrome fangs, and I'm there. Jen Siems: The blood rave, yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Josh was supposed to wear chrome fangs with me tonight, just so you know. I came Emelia: Yeah. Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: I came ready to go wearing my fake fangs, and Josh abandoned the idea without telling me, so I'm a little salty about it. Josh: Well, it's because my incisors were too sharp and wouldn't hold the fangs on. So Jen Siems: Ha ha ha LC James: in a in a similar vein. I love a vampire hunter story too. it's a different kind of monster. I'm gonna go Unum, but not today, which is supposed Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: to be the Hannibal Lecter perfume, but has the most Josh: Mm-hmm. LC James: tolerable kind of blood, body matter note that I can find. also can't find a bottle of it anywhere, so I've got my little rinky dink sample. so it's equally as as sort of precious. Josh: I funny enough, I Philippo is one of my favorite houses. I think he does some really amazing stuff, but not today. Smells like the packet of flavoring for beef ramen to me. LC James: my gosh. Never thought about that. Josh: Like if you had a bouquet of flowers on the counter and then you like ripped open the beef packet, like that's but not today on me. And that's why I just Michelle DeLorenzo: no. Josh: yeah. LC James: It's a strange one. Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: It is. Emelia: That's one of the the first niche, I'll say like difficult fragrances that I ever had my husband smell. We were at this tiny perfume boutique called Perfumeria in Dublin. If you're ever in Dublin, you have to go. But they had them out and I was like, let's smell this one. Like I you know, Hannibal Lecter, ooh, he got so mad at me. He was like, I hate your job. What is your job? Michelle DeLorenzo: Right. Emelia: He went and stood outside. He was like wretching. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha Emelia: I was like, I don't think it was that bad. And then he was like, I can't believe you made me smell that. He still brings it up to this day, actually. Which I think is hilarious. Josh: I a a shameless plug with Philippo. If you are interested in exploring some very specific, very carnal, very eccentric fragrances, the s that XSE sex collection that he has are very visceral in a way that I find interesting. There's one called Cyber Sex that's like a sweaty body hunched over a hot computer. And like he he brings a certain realism. To the idea of like a sensual perfume that I just really appreciate. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Yeah. I'd say for this one, I would say lubu from Soridora, which is the only blood fragrance that I can even remotely tolerate. But I think it does it in a really interesting way. I think it's the clove that overall saves this fragrance for me and makes it something very wearable. But it there is something incredibly sexy about it while also having that kind of undertone of that metallic blood smell. Josh: Mambo Makumba by It just hit me. It's like mango and blood. It is a wild fragrance. they're the ones that did the Yuzu Yakuza, Jeffrey Dahmer, Sporitica. The Michelle DeLorenzo: sporitica. Yeah. Josh: I I think their fragrances are done in poor taste, but the makumba, that that blood and mango is very interesting. And I like kept Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: going back to it and being like, how did you do this? Michelle DeLorenzo: Are there any other ones that you think we missed that we should add to this list? LC James: The my propaganda film for vampire movies is is an Iranian film called A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night. And if Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. LC James: you have never watched it, I highly encourage you to. I have two recommendations for that that I hope will get people into it. and the first is staying true to that heritage is from Kismet olfactive. Which is Tubros Tantra, which is a Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. LC James: I recommend for a while. And Ares Perfumes Nightflower. I find Nightflower slightly more challenging than some of her other ones, even though like it's Antoine Lee and he walks a really beautiful tightrope. but yeah, if if you're interested in a really cool take on the vampire and a really cool film, I would watch that and I would wear Tuber's Tantra or Ares Nightflower with it. Josh: I did think of a it is not a vampire story, but I think it fits some of the similar motifs. And I did have a perfume picked out for that. And it was actually Secretions Magnifique, also Anton, for Dorian Gray. LC James: Hello. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Jen Siems: that's a good one. Josh: And I think there is something that ties Dorian Grey to the vampire in this idea of being ageless, indulgent in the fall and moral decay that's involved in in a very similar way to the vampire. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Josh: Yes. So thank you for joining us this evening. It's been really cool to talk about a topic that I think all of us enjoy in in a Michelle DeLorenzo: No. Josh: perhaps a different lens. in our closing ritual, we have two questions. Why do humans keep finding beauty in the darkness? LC James: There's beauty in solitude. What I'll share is this I had an opportunity last year to do a photo shoot in Venice. It was in February. I went out with my model with a film camera and there was no one. The Piazza San Marco was empty. the walk to and fro was empty. And there was a moment where she touched one of the light poles and just threw her head back and giggled. And it was this immense sense of freedom and the feeling that you're getting away with something a bit. So for as much as the night can conceal and darkness can be that which you obscure yourself with, and it also can be a blanket and a comfort. There's nothing there in the dark that isn't there in the day, right? Jen Siems: my answer is a little bit more depressing. I think everybody here knows that I had cancer in 2020 and that was terrible. Zero out of ten, do not recommend. but I think that a large Part of why we keep finding beauty in the darkness is because you don't have another choice. That's you have to keep going. and I don't mean that to be depressing because I think it's kind of empowering. because despite like how terrible or how ugly things are, there's always something that kind of spurs you on. Michelle DeLorenzo: Beautiful. Emelia: Yeah, I think that that to jump off of that, I think that the ability to find anything in the darkness is what separates us and what makes us human. and what makes our spirits different to animal or a different species. Michelle DeLorenzo: And last question of the night if perfume lets us become someone else for a day or a night, can they be an anchor for us to explore our own monsters and desires in the open? LC James: yeah, with your own sense of wariness, there's there's always a lesson in the vampire story. The further back you go about a kind of crisis or moral failing. And so don't let the illusion of comfort that something might give you. Prevent you from facing reality. So use fragrance as an escape and as a costume and to explore identity. But don't hang your entire self-expression upon it. Don't hide yourself with like fitting in with corporate minimalism or with everyone else in your job and thinking that the only venue that will save you is your fragrant self-expression. You need that and something else. Let it be a medium, but more of a foundation. let it and if and if you're 14 years old listening to this in Kansas and you can't tell your parents that you're trans and that's what you've got, then no, you don't have to put the beans in the bean dip. I get it. But you you gotta have that and something else. There's I guess the cautionary tale of don't hang it all. That's very depressing, sorry. Emelia: I think the real answer is I think to agree with what Elsie said, where for me, when you're getting into fragrance, it's one thing. When you've really gone into the artistry of it and you've fallen in love with it, and it's sort of become a core pillar of your identity, it's a completely different thing. And I think you know, we all know the difference between those two things, but It's a fine line to get there because it's very easy to fall into it, go into mass amounts of credit card debt, fall into the consumerist aspect of it where you just feel like excess is the way, instead of a search of identity and curation and finding what speaks to you and what works for you. you know, we've all got ridiculous collections, we've all got fragrances that will outlive us. Our fragrance collections are immortal. But I think Fragrance is as much a playground as it is a daily ritual. So you can go out and swing a little bit, you can come back, you can do your nighttime fragrances that you love to wear. So it's it's really what you make it. and I I do. I think it's it's important to distinguish yourself and to figure out your identity first. but I think that fragrance is an incredible It's a it's a good way to experiment with who you are inside. you don't need four hundred fragrances to be a full individual, you know. Josh: Excellent. Thank you all for joining us this evening. this has been a great delve into a common interest in the vampire, but also linking it into the world of perfume and expression and kind of the darker side of things. So thank you for joining us this evening. And to our listeners and viewers, if you've enjoyed this, please consider liking and subscribing. It helps us reach new audiences. And we hope to see you at Fumed Atlanta on October 10th and 11th. Thank you. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay, love you, bye.