Alie Kiral, Pearfat: one of the first times that I recognized that perfumery could be kind of like playful ⁓ and ⁓ while being very beautiful and like compelling ⁓ is when smelled the perfume Sturkus ⁓ by Orto which if you know it is ⁓ essentially it's Latin term for ⁓ anus or butthole. It's supposed to kind of smell like a clean butthole before you hook up with somebody. ⁓ Michy: Okay. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: And it really does smell like that. And I was so challenged and like floored by that, but it just really stuck with me. It wasn't even necessarily that I wanted to smell like that or wear it, but that's really, that like broke my mind wide open to the possibilities of storytelling with perfume, because it was just so vivid. Michy: You Josh: Yeah, he also has the ⁓ Bokanera, the little dark mouth, it's like the weird sex cake one. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, definitely a freaky brand. The bottle has like this leathery kind of like shell on it. Yeah, it's just very the whole thing is just very vivid and very specific in a way that until I had smelled that at MERS Apothecary ⁓ kind of early on in my exploration of niche perfume. I basically was like, what's the weirdest thing in here? Like, and they showed me Sturkus. I said, Michy: Yeah. Josh: Yeah. ⁓ Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, that works. That works for me. Michy: Yeah, he's a delightful little, delightful little weirdo. I know it was like two years ago he had an event in the city that a couple of my friends got to go to and there were just dildos everywhere for the party. it's like, first I don't know, yes. And here are these like very straight men walking into this event, like with just dildos everywhere and they did not know how to act. I'm like, this is perfect. Josh: Fun. ⁓ for Sada Naso. Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: This is the kind of thing that perfume can do. ⁓ know, that, they can bring straight men into rooms full of dildos, you know, and put them on their toes. So I'm, I'm here for it. Josh: Right. Michy: you Josh: Funny enough, when I did my big leap into collecting perfume and stuff, I went from Le Labo to a Taut L'Iberde orange to Ordo Parisi. when people notice that I don't have an affinity for designer perfumes, it's because I immediately went to the far end of the pool. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, and those are three brands that are very accessible in that they are available a lot of perfume shops. If you find a cool perfume shop, a lot of times those brands are represented and they are so boundary pushing. I think that's probably true for a lot of people. And a lot of them have such a kind of lore about them too, like Sucretia Magnifique and all of that is just so the thing of tales that perfume lovers swap until you smell it for yourself. Michy: I'm always so intrigued by those brands, like those very like bodily fluid heavy fragrances. ⁓ I appreciate them for the art of it, but I could never pitch myself wearing them. they are quite amazing that somebody can produce that and sell it pretty well. I've sold out one fragrance multiple times from Sinyoko called La Serene, is smells, it's inspired by Catherine the Great. who like to have lot of orgies and didn't like to shower. And it smells like really sweaty vagina. ⁓ Alie Kiral, Pearfat: You know what? We like what we like. The heart knows what it wants and the nose knows what it wants, I think. Michy: We like what we like. The best is when people smell it and like it and then I tell them the story and the look of dread on their face is like, ⁓ no. Josh: Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yes. Big time. Big time. All of a sudden they don't like it so much. It's like, the power of suggestion is very real. Josh: Alright. Now that we've secured our explicit rating for this episode, ⁓ we wanted to welcome you, Allie, to the pod. Welcome to the fragrance vials. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Josh: So if people are unfamiliar, you are the owner and perfumer of Pear Fat. And do you want to tell everyone a little bit about that? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, absolutely. I ⁓ am primarily a self-taught perfumer. started Pear Fat about four years ago. Two of those years, I was still ⁓ working full-time as a college administrator at a grad school in Chicago. ⁓ Well, was, you know, it was through the pandemic. So while I was on Zoom calls and would turn my camera off and pack orders, and it just was sort of this labor of love that came out of... really largely, I I already loved perfume going into learning how to make perfume, but I started taking classes with the Institute for Art Null Faction. And, you know, I'm guessing a lot of folks listening to this are very familiar with them. They're an institution, you know, literally in the community, but just ⁓ such a cool place to play around with fragrance in an accessible way. I found that so inspiring and that really kind of kicked off my journey. yeah, four years ago, I decided, you know, it was a little more than a hobby to me. I wanted to share my work more broadly and I haven't looked back and things have just been growing and growing and I like pinch myself all the time because it's so much fun. And so always kind of looking to make things that are very me that are very Midwestern. grew up in Michigan and I now live just outside of Chicago. So. this is just who I am and I don't see a lot of those kind of stories represented in perfumery. when I started making things, I'm like, these are different than things that I've smelled out in the world. ⁓ And I think I deserve to put them out there and see what happens and it's paid off. So here we are. Michy: coming Fumed was first real experience diving into your brand. ⁓ I mean, everything I heard really, ⁓ it matched the vibe I was expecting. Everything was so playful and quirky and fun and ⁓ whimsical in a way just really, really connected with me right away. ⁓ we talk about this like, playful or whimsical and there's often this assumption that playful work can't be serious. Do you feel like whimsical or humorous fragrances are taken less seriously in the industry? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: if you zoom out and look at perfume as a whole, ⁓ yeah, I think that there's not a lot of representation for like silliness ⁓ and playfulness. think ⁓ some ⁓ brands designer brands have like tried to capture that lately because I think there is this sort of swing towards people wanting whimsy, wanting playful, cute, you know, there's been this sort of like... coquette imagery that's been super popular in fashion. So I do think that there's a little bit of a shift in the broader world of perfumery. In the world of indie perfumery, I actually really haven't found that to be the case at all. I think people are really excited to see something different. And ⁓ yeah, I guess that's something I identified early on that there was a space for that and that there was interest in that and that I was a good person to run with that because I... I think my sort of amateur start, my sort of start in teaching myself helped me to kind of open some of those boxes a little sooner and be a little bit more free with what I make. Josh: I really appreciate the, I know in our previous interview under Goth fragrance dialogues, which we'll be launching on the podcast as a bonus episode alongside this, you mentioned like ⁓ kind of the punk aspect and the DIY aspect that you come from. ⁓ So you can tune in there to listen to that part, but you know, as you've grown with ParaFat, have you felt pressure to make your work more? Michy: So you can tune in there and listen to that part. as far as the audio is it's pressure. Our quotes were fine, but we're going with lot of other audiences. Josh: know, air quotes refined or marketable to wider audiences. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: You know, the feedback that I've gotten for a pair of fat is so largely positive. I've had so many people tell me it's like why they got into perfume because they, you know, it's a weird thing to talk about because I don't like to feel like I'm sounding full of myself, but the feedback I get is so positive. Honestly, no, I think. I found an audience that gets what I'm doing, that gets what I'm making, and that is the most important thing. And this is something that I'm constantly telling people, you know, I'm getting contacted for folks who want to start making perfume themselves or people who are like, how do I, you know, I'm interested in this, how do I get started making content or this kind of thing. And I guess I'm always kind of like, you have to be really true to yourself. If you have something to say, say it with your perfume. it will find people who are interested in what you have to say. I think there's room for all kinds of like stories and voices. And I've been asked about, you know, there's a lot of awesome brands coming out of Chicago right now. Is there any like competition or competitiveness? And I think you guys probably saw it fumed. It's just kind of not like that. I don't know anyone who has just pear fat perfume. So it's like, you know, there is room for all of us to kind of be making art. And I think music is always a really great comparison for the world of perfumery and You know, it's like you might have a favorite band and that might be the one that you like ride or die for and always buy tickets to their shows but that doesn't mean you don't have like, you know, whole other roster of artists in your, you know, in your library that you're listening to regularly or records that you have or whatever ⁓ that you still love to support and you still love to listen to. So short answer, no. I really haven't felt any pressure to change anything. I think it's been really positive and it's been really fun. And it feels really true to me. And I said, starting out, I didn't really want to do this as a job unless it was fun for me. And it is. So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go off the rails now if it's working, you know? Michy: Yeah, it's funny you make the music comparison because anytime I've ever felt like bogged down that there's too many releases, Josh always says like, well, you wouldn't be complaining if more and more music was coming out. So why are we complaining that more and more fragrance is coming out? I'm like, yes, you're right. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah. You the difference for people in their mind is that there is this like very hardcore association with consumerism and perfume. And it's natural to feel that because it's like, it is something that's advertised on, you know, a subway station and, you know, pushed in the mall and this and that. I think that buying perfume from a maker, from an indie brand that's truly like invested in it is ⁓ more like... Michy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: paying to go see a concert or buying a record or buying merch or something like that. You're tangibly supporting that art, but there's nothing wrong with sharing some with a friend, decanting for a friend. And I think that's what's really cool about indie perfume and small brands. We're all really down, I'll trade with other perfumers. I'm not spending a ton of money on perfume, but I have perfume to give people. it's like almost sort of becomes your currency. And I think people who are really into fragrance kind of get that early on. I hope they do at Michy: I literally just gave my daughter's daycare ⁓ teacher because she stumbled upon my Instagram ⁓ ⁓ like, ⁓ my God, I love perfume. I'm like, ⁓ really, you do? And I came with like a bag of fragrance. ⁓ was like, ⁓ my God, really? I'm like, please take it. That's so much. ⁓ become the love language to share. ⁓ Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Well... Josh: Here. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Don't say that to me! They're gonna love you now. That's awesome. Yeah. Anytime I go to an event, absolutely. Yeah. Anytime I go to an event, like when I was at Scent Explorer last year in New York, I came home with a tote bag, like bursting with samples. I just, anytime someone comes to my house, I'm like, you want some of these? mailman, like, you want some of these? Josh: I have two thoughts there. One, I wish I could remember the original content creator that did it because I want to credit them. But I saw someone post that they had too many samples. So they got like a vintage ashtray and filled it with samples in their guest bathroom. So guests can take samples when they leave. And I now have that in my half bath. And my friends are like, how do you pick what goes in the ashtray for people to take? And I'm like, it's samples that are either on my wishlist or I already own. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: That's fabulous. Michy: you Josh: That way you're not spraying something I don't like. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, that's her. Yeah, I'm very like, I'm chaotic about it. I'm like, here's the sample bag, like, go, go crazy. And they're like, what's in there? And I'm like, I literally don't know, you know. Have fun. Have fun. I probably already picked through for the things I wanted, like a little, a little. Josh: Yeah. Michy: Gatty. Josh: Yeah. We have, in my day job, we had like a global meeting for my team, people from all over the world. There was like 26 of us and we all had to bring something that represented us. So there was a lot of like global candies and like someone brought silk scarves from India and like super cool. I brought perfume and it was the first time that like in my corporate day job, I was like, by the way, I'm kind of a big deal to a very small community. You Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I'm famous to like one specific very niche. I make care a lot. Josh: Right, I'm famous to like 200 people. ⁓ Yeah, and they were like, what? And I was like, yeah. So everyone gets a random two perfume samples. That way you can just like experience what niche perfumery and indie perfumery is. And I still get messages every now and then on Teams, people will be like, I found that sample and I smelled it again and I really love it, but I can't, like the labels worn off. What is it? I'm like, I have no. Michy: I'm Alie Kiral, Pearfat: That's so... Josh: I had over a thousand samples when I brought that bag. I have no idea what was there. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, that's how it gets sometimes. don't, I try really hard, you know, anything anyone's sending me that they made, you know, I'm always like, that's, that has to be first to smell. But, know, sometimes you just end up with a bunch of stuff. Like at one point I had a bazillion, what was it? They were like Elizabeth Arden perfumes. had, you know, I'm like, this isn't really my thing, but like some of them will wear these and love these. So it's always fun to find a home for, a home for that stuff. Michy: Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: since it is abundant in our community for sure. Michy: Yeah, so leaning back into your work. So your work often leans into the unexpected moments of nostalgia. How do know when a concept is working versus just strange? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I do ultimately always want things to be like something that someone would want to wear. ⁓ I don't ⁓ ever set out to something that would be like disgusted by. So I will occasionally have ideas. And I think where this is maybe most evident or where I maybe pushed this boundary the most was with Be Very Afraid, my David Cronenberg fragrance that I make for Halloween. fall season. You know, I wanted to have some of those kind of funky bodily notes because that's so Cronenberg. But I did want it to maintain like a very, I always want things to still feel like pear fat and still feel like very wearable, fresh, fun. ⁓ You know, those are kind of the vibes of my fragrances overall, I think, I hope. So to go kind of dark like that, it can be a challenge. But yeah, I just want it to be something that people can wear ⁓ enjoy. So if it doesn't feel like that, ⁓ you know, and I have crazy ideas sometimes. ⁓ remember, I know now DS N'Durga has the pasta water candle, but that was something I had been thinking about. ⁓ was like ⁓ collective consciousness. We were like tapping it around that same time I had been working on a pasta water ⁓ accord. ⁓ Michy: Mmm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: When it came out as a candle, I said, that's genius. That's actually the perfect thing to do with it. So I'm glad that they got to it before me because it actually would be kind of strange to wear. So, you know, I think sometimes it's just, that's mostly the line that I'm kind of drawing it out as like, would I wear this? Would anybody wear this? ⁓ Michy: Yeah. I would love to know your interpretation of pasta water though. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, I mean, I would have to look into it was very early on, but ⁓ I'm sure I have the cordons that I made, jot it down somewhere. They were they were accurate, but I don't know that smelling like that is like a little musty dusty and crusty, I think. But a candle is like kind of amazing. Michy: Yeah. Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: So. Josh: Yeah, I do think there's an element to the way you even the horror fragrances you bring forth, there is like a camp element. And I think there's a really big distinction between just being weird or just being funny and being camp is that there's an intentionality and there's an intellect, a point of view. And that's why even when you bring forward a David Cronenberg fragrance, it's not a visceral body horror fragrance. It's you with your friends. eating pizza watching this movie on a TV, like... yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yes, thousand percent. And you know, mean, in that perfume specifically, like there's red chimpaka in there. There's like beautiful, expensive florals in it. I never want it to not smell like perfume. I always want it to feel like a completed piece of art, a completed piece of, you know, of scented art. ⁓ And for me, that means that it has to be what I make is perfume. And what people typically want to do with perfume is wear it on their body. Right. So. I have nothing but respect for all kinds of interesting, weird scent art that exists out there. And some perfume brands even will make things that, know, are, you know, we've been talking about stercas and secretions and all these things. Like, I think there are brands that like to do things that are purposely sort of like, ⁓ who would wear that? I never want, I never want people to say that about my work. I would be devastated if someone said, ⁓ who would wear that to a list of my notes? And, you know, it's inevitable. Like not everything's for everyone, but you know, I think. Michy: you Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I would want you to be saying that because you like hate bergamot, not because you think that the combination of notes I came up with is disgusting. is very, it's a very thoughtful process where I want to balance. Anytime I put something really funky and crazy, I want to kind of bring something that can be its partner. ⁓ that's a little bit more approachable, a little bit more traditional. Maybe, ⁓ that's, that's kind of a technique that I use when I'm formulating because I do always want it to feel like perfume that smells good. Someone. Josh: so you're kind of riding the line between that intentionality and like the absurdity and the whimsy. What are some ⁓ you've maybe had where you're like, I want to do this, ⁓ I need to pull it a little bit in line. ⁓ Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yes. Yeah, totally. Michy: ideas you've given me that you can utilize for thinking and thinking. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: So Up North, which is coming back soon, my summer fragrance, which is one of the most popular perfumes that I make. ⁓ It's ⁓ lemonade and like fresh lake water. When I first started working on Up North, when it was just like the seed of an idea, I was kind of going for like a swamp. you know, in hindsight, I'm like, that's exactly what I'm talking about, where you would say that and people would be like, I don't want to smell like that. ⁓ you know, it was leaning more and I think that just comes with some experience too and knowing your materials better because the early seeds of that idea, I was really obsessed with like geosmin and, you know, pterasol and these kind of ⁓ wet earthy materials. Like I really wanted to do something with that. But I think when you're learning perfumery, sometimes you don't have the knowledge of like ⁓ a broader palette to kind of use those things correctly. And so my early iterations of that before I released it as Up North were much more like rainy, funky. And then I kind of had this aha moment of realizing that giving it a lemonade note, making it light, making it airy, giving it these like kind of breezy ozonic facets made it something that was still very like aqua water, you know, vibe, but felt like something that people would like want to wear and want to smell like. And yeah, like I said, it worked out because people do love that. And I've heard from so many people who It's kind of an ode to Lake Michigan and growing up and spending summers in Saugatuck, which is just beautiful. And I've had so many people from that area be like, ⁓ my God, it's perfect. It's dead on. People who have gone on vacation there just love it. So it's very rewarding to get the feedback that it's hitting the prompt, the scene that I wanted to set with it. Michy: Thanks. a deliberate sense of humor about pear fat. How do ⁓ see ⁓ a sense of humor in fragrance overall and how can we use that as a tool? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: fragrance is funny. Like when we smell something that we don't know what it is, our instinct is often to laugh. ⁓ And we hear a crazy list of notes, you know, we're giggling or looking at our friend like, what? That's crazy. Like, how are they going to pull that off? ⁓ You I think there's so much ⁓ kind of built in whimsy and like fun and playfulness to sense because I mean, I'm sorry, but like think about, you know, tooting or, ⁓ you like The way your dogs paws smell, know, these like, these like not necessarily good smells, but smells that kind of around us all day. You know, I think leaning into that and just sort of letting it be funny, letting it be weird, letting it be a little like off kilter, not always reaching for, you know, gorgeous, sexy, sensual, you know, and those things are wonderful and beautiful. And sometimes you want those perfumes. That is very well represented and that is not what I do. I want it to be playful. I want it to be funny. You know, it's like if you want a sexy date night perfume, they are out there and there's fabulous ones. And if you are like of a certain type of person, maybe you want to wear paraffin on your date. But you know, I think people know what we're talking about when we're talking about the sort of classical marketing and language around perfumery. That is just not who I am. I'm a silly, silly girl. Michy: Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I love to be silly. You know, if I'm a little pun or a joke, like I'm putting it in the copy, I'm putting it on the site. You know, the name knee high of the new release is a reference to a very Midwestern term that you'll have a good corn crop if it's knee high by the 4th of July. That is the most folksy, silly. My husband is born and raised Indiana, Hoosier, and like it just makes me think of him and. Michy: Hehehehe Mm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: giggle because it's just something he says every time we drive past a cornfield in the summer, you know, it's got to be knee high by the 4th of July. So sort of an ode to him. know, just little things that make me laugh or make me smile. I'm like, why wouldn't I put that in my perfume? Why wouldn't I put that into the brand and into the stories? Michy: there. So the perfect little segue to shout out that you have a new fragrance coming out that I have absolutely fallen in love with. Tell the people about it, tell them what it smells like and when it releases so they can get their noses on it. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Thank you. Josh: You Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, absolutely. So, Nehi will launch on May 8th and it will be in partnership with Up North as the summer collection for Pear Fab, which I'm super excited about. I actually wore a little bit of both of them, kind of layered them and they're gorgeous together too, so it's going to be really fun. ⁓ Nehi is sweet corn accord, which was so much fun to make, very difficult to kind of nail the way I wanted it to smell, but I really wanted it to be like tassels, like the... kind of soft inside of a husk of corn when you're just peeling it to put it on the grill. ⁓ Blueberry, honeysuckle, so just this very sort of like sweet and lovely summer day in a Midwestern small town on a dirt road and you see a farm stand. That's just like such a classic part of summer for me and my memories and my family. So I just wanted to kind of capture the feeling of like that whiff of your beautiful produce on a summer day. ⁓ And yeah, May 8th, it'll be available. I'll have samples and baby pairs and the big size, the big daddy, the 50 mil. And I'll also have a duo option with Up North. So that'll be fun ⁓ to have an available collection. Josh: Mm. Michy: Mm-hmm. Amazing. I never realized how much I needed to smell like corn until I smelled knee high. So yeah, it is really gorgeous. It kind of reminded me in this moment of my culinary career where I learned to be a little bit more daring and challenge my own sense of taste. When somebody pushed me to make corn into a dessert and I made a corn creme brulee and now it's Josh: That's super fun. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Beautiful smile. Josh: Right. Michy: ⁓ flavor that I absolutely crave and for a moment it was have I feel like it was having a moment in the culinary world but maybe it was a little bit too weird for people but ⁓ yeah so Alie Kiral, Pearfat: You know, though, I mean, we have like a Mexican ice cream shop near me and they always have like a corn ice cream flavor. Would that with like caramel? Oh, baby. I think it's a little cultural too. Like I know a lot of Asian cultures and Hispanic cultures do use more corn and like sweet corn in desserts. So yeah, I love that kind of thing. And that was definitely more the like vibe of corn I was going for, like that kind of fresh, sweet. And you know, I think. Michy: Mm-hmm. Ugh. So good. So delicious. Josh: Yeah. ⁓ Michy: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: When you're used to in our culture, you know, you're thinking about it at a barbecue or whatever, but it is a very sweet food. It is like a very sweet, sweet food. Michy: Yeah. Josh: And when you announced Nehi coming out, it was around the same time that Andrea Mack announced their new fragrance coming out that has a blue genicorde. And in the group chat, we have a thread where we talk about new releases. And I was like, is it Midwest perfume summer? Like we're getting a lot of... Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yes. Michy: you Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yes it is! I'm sorry, I know you're not from the Midwest, girl, but... Josh: It's like we have denim, have corn, we're getting a lot of milk, like we need some cheese perfumes coming in, like. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, that's true. Michy: Yes. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Don't threaten me with a good time. I, that was definitely, that would be tricky to pull off, I think, but someone out there could do it. Josh: I only have one sample in my collection that has a cheese note that is like apparent. ⁓ And it is X-ray by space fluid. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Is it Hildy Soleani? ⁓ I didn't smell that. Hildy Soleani has that like parm- she has a- it's like a- she has so many and there are so many like funky- funky food notes in them. I can't remember which perfume it is, but she has a cheesy one. Michy: ⁓ yes, yes. Josh: Bye. Michy: Mmm. Josh: Yeah, I have several samples coming because I fell in love with hot milk, which I now have on the tray. But I a few more samples to try out. Michy: That's. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: If That's my diva, I love her. Michy: So much. She's so amazing. Josh: It's... Alie Kiral, Pearfat: ⁓ my I love her. I sent her, she messaged me early on in Pear Fat's history on Instagram and asked me about bread and roses. And I was like, well, I'll send you some Hildy. And she's like, okay. And then she sends me her address. And at this point, I had never shipped anything overseas. And I spent probably close to a hundred dollars because I was like, I don't even care. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna like Hildy Soleani wants to smell bread and roses. I'm gonna, I'm gonna send that to her. Michy: Yeah. For real. Yes. Josh: Right. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: So that was a big deal. Yes. We love you. Keep being you. Josh: Shout out to Hilda Soleani, you are the weird Gormon Queen. ⁓ You know, we, ⁓ when I was in MERS, ⁓ before Fumed, I tried the oysters and butter perfume on skin. Yeah. And I was like, ⁓ do I get this or do I get hot milk? And I was like, I'm going to do a hot milk. It's like a little more cozy. And then it's so minimalistically beautiful. ⁓ and then this is not about the perfume. It was just a set of circumstances. Ended up in an Uber going from MERS, Pothkerry, back to my Airbnb. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: It's called show up. Yes. Michy: Mmm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Hot milk is so fabulous. the phone. Michy: In certain senses, there's a big difference between how you stop and you And it's you're bubbling and you're this big shot and you're like, that's really toxic. You have to these waves of like, No. So you to take these of Josh: And it was like that weird level of humid, because it was raining and hot in the Uber. I started getting car sick, and I kept getting these waves of like, oyster and musky butter perfume. It's like, I am so glad I did not buy this. I don't think I could have this again. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: That's really funny. My mom and I went to MERS not too long ago and she smelled that one like we were talking about earlier without knowing what it was supposed to be. And she was like, this is amazing. I love this. And was thinking about getting it. And then the person that was helping us at MERS was like, ⁓ the oyster. My mom's like the oyster perfume. And then she smells it and was totally disgusted by it. So I don't know. Josh: Ha ha ha ha! Yeah, the lady that was next to me while I smelling it, and I was like, yeah, I love it. It's got that like oceanic butter. It was very, yeah. And she was like, oysters, that's weird. Like, why would you have savory perfume? So I like had to flip around and be like, I know you're, you work here, but hold on. And then feel like the Versatile Paris is right here and they have a pesto pasta perfume that I adore. You need to check this one out. And I was like, there's. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: It's beautiful. I mean, it's beautiful. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, I love that I'm here for it, love any, if it's a weird food for a perfume to be smelling like, I'm like, I'm so into it, I'm so into it. Josh: But I think that that goes back to what you're saying on like there's unconventional ⁓ sense in life that still create a nostalgia and they still create an anchor point for your memory and for the emotion of the time. So it's not just about being fun or being whimsical, you're still telling a story. And do you think that this willingness to be a little absurd and be a little different? outside of the traditional storytelling element has a strength in the independent space. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, I absolutely do. think for me, I hope that I am showing that you can still be very, very serious about the craft of perfumery. Like I am constantly trying to, you know, reading, researching, learning as much as I can about any new, you know, accord that I'm working on. Or if I'm trying to make something untraditional, you know, I'm deeply researching it. I'm reaching out to my mentors, you know, I'm... This isn't just, it's not just silly. It's also like deeply ⁓ important to me. And like, like you said, it's storytelling. So it's something I'm not, I'm not just, ⁓ you know, and I think people that are listening to this podcast surely know, but I think the average person maybe doesn't understand that perfume is not so simple as just, well, I want to make a corn and blueberry perfume. Here's corn, here's blueberry. You know, it's, it's, it's so much more than that. And it's, you know, tiny little incremental adjustments. And so I think my willingness to kind of Michy: Mm-hmm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: open up the possibilities of what can be in a perfume, what can be a perfume note, even if it's something that's like a total fantasy note, like TV static or something like that. I'm so inspired by those things and I'm so jazzed when I have an idea and like get to kind of dive in and research and that part of it is so important to me. I think that rigor allows me to be fun and playful on the other side of things. Like I can be rigorous, I can be serious, I can take perfumery very seriously, but having these kind of kooky ideas and combining it with that rigor and sort of the academic side of things that you frankly just need in perfumery, there's a lot going on, there's skin safety, there's all these things that I don't wanna be whimsical about, I wanna be serious about and take care of my customers and take care of people and respect how much hard work goes into every aspect of perfumery. And most of which, you I'm doing myself at this point. ⁓ I take that all very seriously. But I think, you know, when it comes to the stories I'm telling, why can't they be funny? Why can't they be silly? Why can't they be, you know, personal and goofy and, you know, very specific to me? I find the more specific that the memories I'm trying to kind of recreate are the more people kind of respond to them in in cool ways. And I hear, you know, their version of that story or their version of the lake house that they go to with their family and. Yeah, think it, I think it, the combination of like rigor and playfulness allows me to, to tell stories that ⁓ are not being told by anyone except for me because they couldn't be. Josh: There is something about the environmental storytelling in fragrance that I really appreciate. Another brand that does that is Sun Sphere out of Knoxville. She has another one that is Lake House. And being from the South, the way that she captures that wet, humid air that you get, I was like, okay, I know where this is. I've been to this place. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: ⁓ yeah. Okay. It's like game recognized game sometimes with smelling something when someone tells you it smells like corn and blueberries, like someone from a different part of the world who's never experienced that might have a totally different association with corn and blueberries or may never have had a blueberry or something. But when you get that Midwestern person that smells it and they're just like, this is it. Like at Fume, someone smelled knee high and she told me she was a corn detassler as a teenager in Iowa. Josh: Mm-hmm. Michy: Okay. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: And she was like, and this is what I wish it smelled like while I was detasseling corn. She's like, this is like the perfect version of that, the beautiful version of that. And that was like the highest compliment to me. I'm like the corn husker from Iowa said that this was perfect. That is all the approval I need. Michy: Well, we already know not to listen to anything anybody says on Fragrantica, but... Yeah. Yeah, seriously, go over to Perfumo. There's plenty of others. But anyway, not us name dropping the things that we dislike. But what does your creative process look like when you're starting to bring a concept together? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: At this point, if you're on there. ⁓ Josh: Delete your profile. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: you Yeah, so we were talking about like environmental storytelling. That is essentially always where it starts for me. ⁓ You know, I will either be somewhere or remember somewhere. There's definitely a sense of place about all of them. And I work with a really fabulous copywriter, ⁓ Sealy Katz, and they are so good at kind of taking my... kooky ideas and concepts and lists of notes and things like that, smelling my work and then really kind of painting a story around it. there's always sort of, I don't know, for lack of a better word, a room that the perfume lives in or a planet that it lives on or something like this where I'm envisioning what does that place smell like? And that's always kind of just naturally been the way that I conceptualize perfumes. knee-high most recently, ⁓ I was on a bike ride with my husband. We were riding through a cornfield and he made it kind of a joke like, ⁓ you should make a corn perfume. It smells so good out here. And I was like, wait, that's, that's so smart. You know, like sometimes inspiration just hits like that. So then in my mind, I'll kind of take, okay, a corn perfume. And then now I'm kind of painting this scene of, know, where, where am I, where is my heart taking me? Like, where are my emotions taking me when I'm thinking about the smell of like fresh sweet corn? and I start thinking about a farm stand. Okay, well, what else is on the farm stand? What are we doing? What time of day is it? So I'm thinking about all those things as I'm kind of thinking about, okay, how do I make a corn note? What materials do I need to order? I'm also thinking about what is sort of the world building around this? ⁓ soon we will have beautiful photos, spoiler alert from Savannah. She's building a corn. ⁓ Michy: Mm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: husk and then the bottle will be coming out of the corn husk for the world. So, you know, just kind of building the is like so important to me. And like, honestly, making perfume is number one and like world building around the perfume is number two for me that I'm just so excited and passionate about. ⁓ So that's kind of always the primary thing that's driving me while I'm while I'm working on something. Michy: Ugh. Love it. I love a fragrance that can make me feel nostalgic for a childhood I didn't have. And there's not a lot out there, but definitely Knee High amongst maybe two or three others is one of them. ⁓ And yeah, you paint such a fantastic visual picture with it and hearing your description really drives it home even more. I'm very, very excited for you for when it releases. Josh: you ⁓ have like distinctive stamp ⁓ as a perfumer. Anyone who's like through your discovery set or anything like that, I think could start picking up on it. ⁓ And it's funny as I've encountered these brands that really don't do whimsy when they try, ⁓ I do sometimes back and like, I would love to see Ali's version of this. ⁓ I did it with the Cirque du Soleil perfume actually. Michy: You Alie Kiral, Pearfat: That's so sweet. Josh: Because I wanted like state fair. I wanted like that atmosphere and that hay and like cola and a funnel cake. And I was like, Ali would bring the realness to this. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: you Michy: Mm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I'm dying to hear you say this because I will say I love that perfume. think it is beautiful, but that is so sweet. When I saw that that was coming out, was like, that was like a dream ⁓ brief for me. I would have loved to do that. So it's funny that you say that because I loved that perfume and I love what came out of it. So, you know, but yeah. Michy: Yeah Josh: I mean, it's nice. It's similar to like, we were just talking about Versatile Paris. They have, ⁓ it always feels like the French making fun of America, the one that has the colon note. Michy: You Josh: It's like, God bless something, something. It's one of those. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: you Michy: No, God. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: It reminds me of, have you spelled zing? Josh: Yes. Michy: Mm-hmm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, it's kind of zing-esque too, because it's a little like barnyardy, horsey, but then it has that like caramely sweetness. ⁓ Josh: And I was like, this isn't quite what I wanted. I would love to have seen it. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah. Well, couple summers back now, I do perfumery workshops with a vintage store in Chicago, Umbrella Vintage, shout out. ⁓ They had me do like a Fairgrounds perfumery workshop. So that's basically what you were describing. I didn't put it all together, but I had made a funnel cake accord. I did like a Ferris wheel grease accord. What else was there? French fries. like all just kind of funny like bourgeoisie carnival stuff. It's funny because a lot of people were like, ⁓ I would wear a perfume of popcorn and just stuff. Josh: So your fall release is already, like, just, it's a stay-at-fair perfume. Michy: Yeah. You know I think this this calls really into focus for me how much different it is when a fragrance comes from somebody's lived experience versus a brief given to a professional perfumer and while they you know professional perfumers at the big oil houses are massively incredibly talented there is something that always sort of falls flat when it's not something that is your lived experience and you know we can see this in definitely a lot of. very cultural fragrances that are meant to maybe be representative. I think we're seeing a lot right now of Asian cultures that are Asian perfumed owned brands that are hiring the French perfumers to do the work for them. And it loses some of that authenticity and that real voice in the fragrance. And I think that's why when we talk about American perfumery, You know, your brand is one that stands out so much to me because it's so much of your lived experience that nobody could do it quite like you can in this industry. So kudos. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Thank you. I mean, think it is perfectly encapsulating, again, like the kind of comparison with music. I think of it as like big house perfumers are, you your pop stars and there's nothing wrong with that. And that is amazing. That's just a different kind of perfumery. What I'm doing is much more similar to, you know, somebody who plays basement shows and, you know, wants to, and I like it that way. I do. I'm so lucky and so happy to. Michy: Mm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: be able to have it be my job, but it's also just something that I love to do and I'm passionate about it and I would do it even if it wasn't my job. know, I mean, it's not anywhere in my life anytime soon. And I think that's such a nice thing to hear because, ⁓ you know, it is super personal. Like all of my perfumes, even if I haven't outwardly shared, you know, there's just so many associations and memories and things that go into them. They are very, very personal. And I really... It means a lot to me when I hear that people who maybe didn't grow up in the Midwest are still like, no, but I'm there. Like mentally I'm dropped into the scene. get it. ⁓ That's exactly what I'm trying to do. So that's always really satisfying to hear. Josh: Yeah, when you're looking at these memories and experiences and places, you're making perfume largely because it made you feel something. Have you ever made something even if it didn't make sense? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, yeah, for sure. ⁓ This is kind of sad. So sorry to turn it sad, but my dad recently passed away and I just sort of as like a comfort exercise for myself have been, I used to make him a cologne called Do Not Go Gentle, which was like, you know, his favorite from his favorite poem. ⁓ And I like for some reason find myself returning to it and tweaking it because I've been thinking about. wanting to release it as a pear fat fragrance. It's like a very traditional men's cologne. It's truly just like my riff on a Fougere, like a very classic Fougere, because that's what he wanted. so I've been sort of trying to play with it and mess with it now. ⁓ And yeah, I'm having a lot of feelings. And I've been trying to think about what I could do to make it not just a Fougere, but like a Fougere specifically about my dad. And kind of key in a little bit more to like... Michy: you Alie Kiral, Pearfat: something a little more abstract, like a coffee note or something, he loved to drink coffee or like, just something about him. ⁓ And that's actually been like weirdly comforting to kind of keep working on that. So yeah, mean, definitely it's very emotional to me. It's very personal, it's very emotional. Like smell is so deeply tied to our, everyone knows, we know this, like this is not new news, but it's just. To me, is like therapeutic to work through things with smell or to smell things that scare me or make me uncomfortable or gross me out or make me feel really happy. I love to take note of all of those things because all of those things are tools for a toolbox to create perfume with. Michy: Yeah, it's way back in like our first episode I talked about this and like my I also lost my dad recently and he didn't have like a signature scent, but he always smelled like gasoline and metal. And so for a while I was doing a lot of layering combinations. And so he was this like super hardcore dude, biker, always in his Harley Davidson shirt. I'm sorry, I'm crying on the podcast. no, no, it's totally fine. But no, it's true. It is such a therapeutic thing where like I was layering scents. So as hardcore as he was, his favorite thing in the world to do was to garden and plant flowers in our yard. So I spent so much time layering different gasoline fragrances and floral fragrances. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: ⁓ no, ⁓ my gosh. It's my fault, I'm sorry. Mm-hmm. No! Michy: And it's true, there's ⁓ this certain connection and, ⁓ god, I'm crying on the fucking podcast. ⁓ No, it is this beautiful connection, you're right, there is so much, does, it really fucking sucks. ⁓ But no, you're right, it's a beautiful therapeutic thing and I think it speaks to the world of why fragrance moves people in such a way and can connect you so deeply to things that. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I'm so sorry. It sucks. It sucks to me. Michy: make no sense, right? ⁓ Josh: Yeah, I mean, not to pile into that. Like I know for me, I lost my mom during COVID. And one of the perfumes, one of the first perfumes that really took me back to those emotions was a way to say goodbye by Phil O'Greene Shadow, which was about losing his mom. ⁓ Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Mmm. Yeah, that's a beautiful perfume. Josh: And it, yeah, immediately broke me. Immediately took me back to being a kid and like digging around in her purse and like, you know, ⁓ but one of the perfumes I, I keep several samples of, and I keep going back to is, ⁓ why, ⁓ why ⁓ six dash S by Blackbird. And it is artificial banana and burnt circuit boards and Jasmine. And I'm pretty sure I've talked about this in the podcast, but like, what a weird combination. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Mm-hmm. Josh: But my mom loved banana popsicles. And my brother built guitars. like, I have this distinct memory when I smell it of sitting in the floor of my brother's room while he was soldering bass pickups. And my mom was eating a banana popsicle while talking to us. And it's like such a sweet memory to go back to that doesn't feel traumatic, that doesn't feel like grief. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. And it's so funny because I'm sure Blackbird didn't mean for any of those things to come across, right? But that's so special. Like, what a beautiful thing to... And that's, I mean, that's why I say I always hope it's wearable, anything that I make, because you just never know what things it's going to bring up for people. I don't want people to recoil. I don't want it to be traumatic. But I want people to know that there's like real person behind these things that... Michy: you Josh: No. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I, it, it, some of it is like very, feels very like bearing my, you know, bearing my soul or like bearing something that, you know, is, difficult. And that's, you know, in thinking about doing the sort of tribute fragrance to my dad, it's like, I don't know, that's like, that's a really hard thing to be like public about and be like frank about in front of, you know, like you said, it's not, I'm not out here, you know, in front of millions of people or anything, but like, you know, I have an audience and it's, it's hard to be vulnerable. It's hard to share, share things like that sometimes, but that. is very much informing my work right now, that's very much informing my life, you know, in all aspects right now. And ⁓ that's just the reality of it. So, you know, I'm not gonna lean away, I'm gonna lean into it. That's all I can do. Michy: ⁓ it speaks to soul of indie There are these stories that people connect with so deeply. ⁓ I for one have never been moved ⁓ a mass market fragrance to the point tears, but there have been plenty of times where I've smelled... ⁓ Honestly, ⁓ every time I smell some JK's for Closet, I ⁓ get weepy. ⁓ There's something so... ⁓ so visceral about some fragrances and the storytelling that go into them and it's what made me fall in love with indie fragrance and what I think people are starting to come around to and connect with more now than they ever have. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, I totally agree. It's smelling good, but it's also so much more than that. Why not both? that's what I... That's always my thing. So why not both? You bring me to tears and make me smell fabulous. Like, let's do it. Michy: Yeah. Josh: Alright. Michy: Yeah. Josh: In, you know, turning from the grief aspect, which again, sorry that you're dealing with that. I look forward to smelling whatever comes out of Michy: guess. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I'm going to take my time with it, it'll come out eventually. Michy: Yeah. Josh: Yeah, what does joy smell like to you? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: immediately I'm thinking about, ⁓ one of my favorite things in world is washing my sheets and my comforter and taking a really good shower and the smell of getting in the bed and like the laundry smell and washing up at you. I love that. It's not even any specific laundry smell. It's just like my bed smell plus like. just the clean, fresh, that's really joyful and happy to me, just comfy in bed and clean and cozy. I mean, the smell of my stinky little chihuahuas is very joyful to me. They smell bad for sure, but ⁓ I'm happy because I'm with them and cuddling with them. ⁓ The smell of my mom's house when she's making lasagna. Can't go wrong with that. Mostly just the smells of places where I'm very happy. My bed with my dogs at my mom's house. Michy: And what's something that you want to make that feels completely free? Josh: You Alie Kiral, Pearfat: that is like sort of high level that have been wanting to make, but I'm struggling with the how like how to kind of edit ⁓ it is something that of travel that I've done. ⁓ all kind of into one package. know, people will do, ⁓ this is inspired by my trip to here, but I kind of wanted just sort of the vibe of like all the places I've smelled into one. Yeah, airport. ⁓ You know, but like, you know, that's, that's kind of a bad smell. People don't want... That's mostly probably bad. Maybe if you're at like ⁓ Heathrow in London and there's all the perfume stores, maybe it's not so bad. Josh: airport. Michy: Yeah. Yeah. Josh: Hahaha Michy: Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Yeah, think, I think, because I always feel interest, like introspectively about ⁓ that kind of perfume, because it's like, you know, I'm thinking about Mexico City is like one of the most inspirational places I've ever been. But that is not obviously my culture, my place to make a cent about. So I've been kind of toying with this idea of like, these are sort of like almost like a travelogue, a journal. ⁓ That's something that I've been kind of toying with lately. I have some fun trips planned this year, so I'm kind of hoping to continue doing some research and noodling on it. But I think I'm trying to strike a balance between making it about travel and making someone else's culture about me, which I don't want to do. ⁓ But that's something that I'm feeling really inspired by right now is just kind of trying to ⁓ make something very conceptual about. exploring and traveling and being around in the world. You Josh: our closing ritual ⁓ is what are some sense ⁓ that you've been enjoying lately? Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Ooh, okay, I'm obsessed with Hollywood Gifts, centerfold. So good, sexy chocolate cookie vibes. Yeah, so, so good, love Maddie. I've been wearing a lot of, I'm kind of shifting into like summery spring perfume mode. I've been wearing a lot of Holy Hell, universal flowering. Sexy, sexy beach vibes. ⁓ In that vein too, Chronotope, Playa Linda. ⁓ Those two are two of my like most favorite. Michy: Love centerfold. Mmm, so good. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: when the weather starts to get a little warmer, I reach for those a lot. What else? I'm looking over at my perfume shelf. What else have I been wearing? I mean, I've been wearing a lot of knee high, to be honest. I really love it. And, you know, things I've been working on, I have a couple of cool custom things coming out that I can't totally share about yet, but yeah, lots of, lots of cool stuff coming out that I've been wearing on my own. I know that's not an exciting answer, but that's true. Michy: Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Josh? Josh: I am also in my spring tray over there. ⁓ This week it has been a lot of hot milk and marshmallow. So hot milk Hilda Soliani, marshmallow by Closet, ⁓ and stone by Liza Patard. I've never been a mint perfume person, but there's something about being a wet rock from a cool mint garden. Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Mm. Michy: Mm-mm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: It's so good. Liza's so good. I love that one. Michy: Fantastic. ⁓ I can't wait to see what else Liza comes up with. I know she's paused for a moment, but yeah, I think her first two cents were really exceptional. ⁓ I have been wearing a lot of this new brand Tank House. ⁓ So this one is Secret Beach. It's my favorite of the two. Josh also has it. ⁓ Yeah, and like speaking of like environmental and like childhood memories, it's... Josh: but you miss you. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I haven't spoken. Michy: inspired by a beach that I grew up going to a lot as a kid and it's the Rockaways and Reese Park, which is like the border between Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island, where the waves are the biggest of any beach in Brooklyn in like New York area. And drinking Nutcrackers, which is a homemade cocktail that people would sell at the beach. That tasted way too much like juice and got you really fucked up ⁓ So I've been wearing ⁓ My god, yeah, I I could I could go for a nutcracker now after crying on on camera, but you know Yeah, it's been I've been wearing it a lot recently I keep reaching for it. ⁓ I also ⁓ Alie Kiral, Pearfat: I'm trying to come drink nutcrackers this summer. Michy: You know, looking at perfumes that are bringing me joy. I've been wearing Mitty Ronnie pink a lot. It's so good. I love their work. They will be on the podcast next week. And yeah, those have been my two go-to's this week. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: That's awesome. Josh: I will say talking about Tank House, I know that they just launched. ⁓ I'm still developing my feedback for them on their fragrances. Their other one, Vibrant Skyline is the one that I'm gravitating towards more. ⁓ And talking to the bed, fresh bed that you like, I feel like they're sister sense. I feel like Secret Beach is about spending the day getting sunburned and drunk with your friends on the beach. Vibrant Skyline is like when you get back to your Airbnb, Michy: This is. Josh: and you're like washing with a nice spa soap and then you're getting in this like big fluffy bed. It's got this weird like powdery vanilla that for some reason reads as like a really big fluffy down comforter. Michy: Mm-hmm. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: You are really selling me on this. want to, need to try this. Michy: Yeah. Josh: Yeah, it comes off like almost mentholated with these like really lovely spa aromatics and then this like fluffy powder even. Michy: Yeah, there. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: That sounds beautiful. Where are they based? Where'd they come from? ⁓ amazing. ⁓ that makes sense. Okay. Very cool. Michy: Yeah, it's. They are from Brooklyn, yeah. Yep. Yeah, yeah, they're definitely they're really enjoyable. ⁓ Allie, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. Can you tell people where they can find you, where they can find your fragrances? Josh: New York. Yeah. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: You can find me at ⁓ pair fat Parfum on Instagram. ⁓ Hello at ⁓ Parfum.com is ⁓ email address. And then, Perfet Parfum.com is where you can shop online directly with me. I have a list of retailers. There's so many, ⁓ listed on I can't shout them all out, but I am available at Luckycent. ⁓ Merz Apothecary, to name a few of the bigger ones that have ⁓ online stores as well. Soon to be Fumery in Portland, which I'm very excited about. ⁓ And lots of other great little boutiques kind of dotted across the country. Michy: Very cool. Shout out to Merz Apothecary. We all had great experiences there this week at this past weekend. Got my bottle of bread and roses from there. So definitely check out Merz Apothecary. They have an awesome selection. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Shout out. Yeah They're fabulous, fabulous place, ⁓ a very historic Chicago place with definitely a huge role to play in my love of niche fragrance. Michy: Yeah, love them. Thank you, Allie. Bye, everyone. Josh: Awesome. Thank you. Bye. Alie Kiral, Pearfat: Thanks.