Josh: ⁓ welcome to Goth Fragrance Dialogues, the space where we explore artistry, stories, and sensory magic behind niche fragrances. I'm Josh, your Goth fragrance bestie, ⁓ and today I'm joined by the imaginative force behind Paraffat Perfume, which a Midwestern love poem, Ali Carrell. Ali, how are you today?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Hi, I'm doing great Josh, thanks for having me.

Josh: Thank you for joining me on our first episode of season two. A new format, but ⁓ I think it'll be just as good. So diving into it, the same thing I ask every guest. What is your first memory tied to Sam?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: so exciting. Ooh, gosh, I think, I feel like my answer to this changes because memories, you know, they change and kind of mutate in your mind over time. But the thing that always sticks out to me is the smell of my grandma's house. ⁓ My mom's mom, my nana, ⁓ she was really into, of course, cooking. She's an Italian grandma. So I remember just like the smell of garlic and tomatoes and just fresh bread baking. There was always salami on the table. There was always fruit on the table. So, you know, those kind of smells for sure, food smells, but she was also a really avid gardener. So she always had fresh basil and like a lot of herbs and things around. And she was also kind of one of those people who loved like essential oils and like vitamins and like natural, naturopathic medicine and things. all of those things kind of have like a. pretty distinct smell. the combo of those things and the smell of my grandma's house is ⁓ just really dear to me. And it's funny because sometimes I'll be like walking down the vitamin aisle in Whole Foods and I'll get a little whiff of something and it'll remind me of her house.

Josh: Yeah, I do love that there seems to be a thread a lot of folks that first sent memory is usually grandma, or at least like grandparents, a lot of food love. And then the vitamins is new. I like that. ⁓

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's such a, it's like some minerally kind of smell. That was just kind of like overlaid over the classic Italian grandma smells. And for some reason it just like really tugs at my heartstrings when I smell that smell now.

Josh: Awesome. So moving towards Pear Fat, your brand really starts to blend and flip traditional perfume narratives on their head. What inspired you to start Pear Fat and how did growing up in the Chicago DIY scene influence that vision?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, that's a great question. I have been a lifelong fragrance lover. ⁓ know, growing up, my mom was really into perfume. I was always like getting gifts of perfume for my birthdays and stuff like that. So I always had a love of perfume, but it was always sort of this like mystery of, you know, this magical smelling juice that shows up and it always felt kind of like fancy and distant and far away. And as I got older and got more curious about, ⁓ you know, the sense that I was, consuming and wearing, I started working for Lush Cosmetics. And that taught me a lot about like the creative process behind perfume. So it's just something that really started to kind of ⁓ weasel its way into my brain and think about smell and ⁓ get kind of like obsessed with, you know, why things smell the way they smell, why a perfumer might have chosen to put a certain note in a perfume. And all of this kind of culminated. in 2019 was the first time I started to kind of experiment with creating perfume. I took a class with Saskia, the founder of the Institute for Artificial Faction, an experimental scent class. And that was really where I started to go, oh, you don't actually have to make perfume that's just floral or just a gourmand. You can get weird with it. You can get very atmospheric with it. You can really tell a story with it. That was so inspiring to me that I just got completely obsessed. And through that, you know, some of the early ideas for Pear Fat were born. And I think that definitely connects with growing up in the Midwest, growing up, you know, interested in DIY art, DIY punk music, zine making, that was always kind of part of my life too. And the attitude there is very much like, well, if there isn't already a lane for you, then make one. And I think ⁓ in the Midwest, that just kind of always has to be your attitude. Like there isn't always a scene that represents your interest. There isn't always, you know, just something kind of waiting for you the way there might be in, you know, in New York or in LA. Sometimes you have to kind of make that yourself. And so I was like, well, why wouldn't I start making perfume? Like, what's stopping me? You know, a lot of people have this sort of attitude of like, ⁓ you have to go to France. You have to study this and that. I'm like, well, I'm. I have the stuff here, I'm taking the class, why am I any less qualified to mess around with this and do it my own way? So I think that's very Midwestern, that's very DIY, ⁓ just not really waiting for anyone to tell you, yep, you're good, you can make a perfume now, just jumping in and doing it and starting to mess around. ⁓ I always make the comparison, I mean, lots do, ⁓ to music. I think it's sort of like the difference between trying to... get signed to a major record label and just putting on a show in a basement somewhere so that people can hear your music. That's definitely more akin to how I kind of approached things to start.

Josh: Cool. ⁓ It's later down, but I think this is a nice ⁓ segue into, so as someone who was obsessed with fragrance and sort of dabbling and playing, thinking on it, and then also taking a course with the Institute of Art and All-Faction, how did going through a more structured course kind of influence your creative process?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, I think something that stuck out to me right away when I started taking more formalized classes is with the Institute for Art and Olfaction, their whole ethos is around democratizing scent. And that spoke to me so much as someone who had no background, no, other than being an appreciator of fragrance and working in the retail space around beauty and fragrance. I had no experience, ⁓ but I was fascinated by it. And I think going to Institute for Art and Olfaction showed me that there are multiple paths that someone who's interested in creating olfactory art can take. It can be in a gallery, it can be in a bottle of perfume, it can be just in your cooking and your floral arranging. Like there are so many ways to play with scent and we're not often encouraged to do that. So I think it's sort of unlocked. a world for me that ⁓ was just so far beyond the idea of you just go to a store and you buy a bottle of perfume. Yes, that's part of what I do. And yes, that's part of olfactory art, but it's not all of it. And I think that has influenced me a lot because I don't really think of it as like, I'm trying to make the best smelling perfume that I can. I'm trying to make interesting things that tell a story. And I think art and olfaction specifically as an organization. helped me to kind of feel empowered to do that and to feel like I had the technical knowledge to apply that. Because of course you can come up with an idea like, I want to make a perfume that smells like a blueberry muffin in the rain. That's a cool idea, but how do you actually do that? So I felt like I had all the ideas and the inspiration and the passion to kind of go for it, where I really kind of started to move forward in this kind of story of my perfume career. was when I felt like I actually had that technical knowledge to connect the dots there.

Josh: And pretty recently, we said 2019 was when this kind of launched off. I love the name Pear Fat. It's just very cheeky. It's kind of unexpected in a pretty serious world a lot of times. What is the story behind that?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Yeah, so I'm not a very serious person. I love to be silly. You know, a lot of little jokes and in jokes and references to things, ⁓ you know, pop up in Pear Fat. I'm a pop culture girlie. love movies, you know, so I think when I named it, there was a few things going on. One, I wanted a name that wasn't a real word. And if you Google me, that would be all that would come up.

Josh: haha

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: I didn't want anyone to get confused with anything. Yeah, yeah, I wanted it to be like iconic. Like that's exactly what, if I'm looking up pear fat, you know, that's what I'm getting. ⁓ But also I kind of wanted to be, I did want to be cheeky. Cause of course perfumery historically is seen as this very like kind of Euro, white, French, whatever kind of vibe, you know, other than white, that's not who I am.

Josh: Okay. Solid branding.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: I'm a Midwestern girl and so French for perfect is parfait. But I said, it's pear fat. It's just pear fat. It's not parfait, it's pear fat. Cause I'm from Michigan and I don't speak French. So it was just sort of like my cheeky little nod to playing with, playing with the form, playing with the history of perfume and just sort of making it my own.

Josh: I love it. And as a very new to Michigan, Michigander, I get it now. I'm starting to hear.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah. Yeah. I saw you were, I saw you were in, are you're in like the Detroit area? Yeah. I grew up around there. I love that.

Josh: Yeah. That's very amazing. ⁓ And yes, now with the accent, I think I got it. ⁓

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, like some Michigan mom is like, ⁓ zest pear fat, you know, like, instead of say parfait, know, they don't, that's not, that's not how they talk where I come from. So, you know, I wanted to just sort of give a little cheeky nod to, to where I come from instead, instead of being a kind of a fancy French brand.

Josh: Yeah I love it. Your fragrances, as you said, are very immersive, very narrative driven ⁓ from recalling a sticky arcade floor with multi-ball or honoring the labor movement with bread and roses, which I have my baby fat of. ⁓ How do you translate these cultures and emotional moments into sense?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, when I'm first conceptualizing a scent, when I'm kind of very, have the seeds of an idea and I'm trying to kind of put them into an olfactory expression of what I'm trying to get across, a lot of times what I'll do is sort of drop myself mentally into a scene and then sort of build the world around me. It's very meditative, honestly. So for the example with Malty Ball, I'm thinking about, you know, I'm in an arcade. I'm maybe drinking a cola. Maybe there's a couple old machines and they're shorting out a little bit so they have this kind of fried metallic smell. The floors, classic kind of Midwest Chicago dive bar, it's gonna be a little sticky. It's gonna smell a little weird, but there's something very cozy and homey about it. So I kind of will think about it where I'm in the room and I'm sort of meditating on like, what am I smelling? What am I feeling? Who's around me? you know, what, and sometimes that's as literal as an arcade and sometimes it's a little bit more like fantastical. ⁓ In the case of something like maybe like one of my Halloween perfumes, like be very afraid of sort of like body horror inspired. So that's not as much like a literal, I didn't necessarily want to make something that smelled like scary or bad the way that you might think something like that would smell, but just kind of putting yourself in that scene, what colors are there, what textures are there. So I'm always thinking of almost kind of like a diorama. for each perfume that I make and then pulling out things that would kind of drop you in the same headspace, hopefully.

Josh: That's a really interesting concept because we've talked to perfumers before that do very atmospheric scents and it's very much of a specific location. Like in Sunspear's work, she has recreated a theater that is in Knoxville. ⁓ And then you get people on the opposite end of the spectrum like Sid, who it is a world away. It is a concept and a dream that you're experiencing and you're somewhere kind of in the middle.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, I would say, yeah.

Josh: you're creating this very atmospheric scent of something adjacent to reality.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, the way that I like to think about it is that a lot of times these scents are super specific to me. So when I smell it, I know exactly the arcade that I'm trying to evoke. But I like to also remember that everyone who wears it hung out at a different arcade or maybe hasn't hung out in an arcade. So I'm trying to also meet the people who maybe didn't grow up in the Midwest. I want them to feel like it's relatable or feel like they've connected to it in a different way. so I always try to, I think that's a good way to describe it. Is it sort of midway between reality and like the sort of dreamy, nostalgic sort of like universal is sort of the word I try to use. Like we may not all have played on pinball leagues like I did and spent a ton of time in arcades, but you've probably been to a roller rink or a movie theater or like somewhere that has this kind of similar like fizzy old school smell. ⁓ you know, for for the example of multi-ball. So I like it to have sort of a specificity to me, but also be something that would make sense to just about anybody in some way, be relatable.

Josh: Yeah, and you do describe the sense of being full of humor and nostalgia and this Midwestern olfactory love poem aspect. How do those same concepts guide your design decisions?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, that's a really good question. think something that I set out to do when I, when I, mean, I will say this, I've been in business officially as Pear Fat for three years and I've gone through so many trials and tribulations with bottles and sample vials and boxes of destroyed product. And, you know, I think not every brand has that same experience. I have truly built this brick by brick. ⁓ so I think that's been really interesting and I've tried to be really transparent about that from the start. Like, you know, I, I, I started out with a very different budget than I have now for photos and, for packaging and things like that. So I think that DIY handmade, a person touched this, a person put this together. I always want it to feel that way. So there are sometimes like imperfections, you know, I do the hand punched labels and they're not all exactly the same. and they're not all exactly identical from batch to batch. It is very handmade and I want it to feel that way. Even as the brand has grown, still have much to the chagrin of other people in my life have maintained that I need to like hand punch every label. I'm still very like, that may change in the future, but right now I am still really doing everything myself. ⁓ And I like the idea that with packaging that's sort of nostalgic. hands-on, very ⁓ tactile. These things, I hope, make people feel like they're part of it. Nothing is overly designed, or I try not to make it overly designed. I like things to be simple, fresh, just sort of can fit easily into whoever's style is wearing them, ⁓ while still having this kind of tangible, tactile, zine, DIY kind of spirit to it.

Josh: I love that aspect. ⁓ Yours was the first brand with these like hand punch labels. There's only a handful of people who do something even remotely similar. But even like the lack of a cap, they just have ⁓ the captor. It does keep it a world apart. It stands out on any fragrance tray while also not being so, you know, some of the...

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah.

Josh: luxury niche brands will have bottles that you're like, is that an alien? Is that what are we? So it's very down to earth while still being unique.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Bye! Thank you. I'm glad that comes across. think, you know, I've gotten feedback from people sometime through they're like, well, why don't you have a cap? Why don't you know this and that? And I get that. hear that. I'm also like a big perfume collector myself. have, I'm looking over at my shelf and like I have some perfume bottles that are stunning and have beautiful caps. Transparently that stuff is so expensive. And to me, it was always more important to focus on making really good perfume and If I had waited until I could have a custom cap and a custom bottle and a perfect branded everything, I would just now be launching and I would have missed so many opportunities. So I also hope that it serves as like a reminder that it's about the perfume. You know, it's about the smell. It's about the story. It's, it's not, and that is not to shame any brand that puts a lot of energy into packaging. I do put a lot of energy into the packaging. I just like that it's kind of simple, accessible. You don't feel like, mean, like you said, some bottles are like such a beautiful work of art. You almost feel scared to touch it. You know, people want to keep them in their boxes. It's just not, it's not precious like that to me. It's something you're going to spray on and feel good and go out into the world. Like I don't, to me, it's just like not that serious. And again, I mean, no disrespect to brands that approach it differently. You know, I'm a fan of many brands that have, you know, very cool intricate packaging. To me, it's always about, you know, I think about like photocopying zines. That was like a huge part of my college life. And that the, you know, the punch labels are a huge nod to that. Cause I used to do that all the time and photocopy that it has great contrast for, for zine making. I'm really big on like including stickers with my packages. I love stickers. mean, you look at my planner next to me, it's covered in stickers. I'm, I'm just like, an ephemera person. So that's also very like present in my packaging and my brand presentation. I love a cool piece of paper, a little scrap of something. So I love to include my little notes and my little postcards and things like that. To me, that is so much more important and so much more on brand for what I'm trying to do than having like a really deluxe cap, if that makes sense.

Josh: Absolutely. ⁓ talking about the ephemera in kind of that prospectus, you have, I don't know if he's the official mascot, the skunk, but I have several stickers of him. Yes, what's the story?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: ⁓ yeah. Yes. Yeah, he's been kicking around. Yeah, so he ⁓ Mia Rambo is the name of the artist that drew the little skunky who I love. It's funny that you brought that up because I actually was thinking it would be fun to have a contest to name the skunk. So he's an unofficial mascot. But yeah, Mia Rambo is the name. She's a tattoo artist in ⁓ Kentucky. And I just love the idea of sort of like a flash tattoo. She's very into like old school American traditional tattoo art. And that's kind of the style that she works in. we, ⁓ you know, we found this old 80s sticker sheet that had almost like the same kind of design with these like funny little skunks with bottles of perfume. And I'm just like, that is so pear fat. That is so me. You know, it's just like a little stinky guy with like being cheeky with his little bottle. ⁓ And she did a great job.

Josh: Mm-hmm.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: transforming that into what became our little skunky logo. ⁓ My husband Keegan also does lots of art for Pear Fat, so if you've seen ⁓ my new stickers, I don't have one near me, I'll send you some. He did like a fruit sticker style Pear Fat sticker. I love working with different artists and getting those kind of. Again, to me that's more fun than a fancy cap. Like I'd rather pay my tattoo artist friend to like make me a cool, and you know, that's just different priorities for different brands. But I love being able to partner with a cool photographer, partner with a cool illustrator, work with my husband on something. You know, just have these like bits and pieces of things that inspire me and other people whose work I admire brought into and as part of my brand.

Josh: Right, I need to take just a moment. My dog is off screen growling at me. What do you want?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yes, absolutely. ⁓ no!

Josh: ⁓ Does this what I'm in work calls to and I'm like what why?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Like, I need you. What are doing?

Josh: What? Lay down.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: That's so funny. My dog is sleeping next to me.

Josh: I have an armchair here for her and usually she just sleeps but like...

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: That's my dog is sleeping next to me right now. Thanks. Too cute.

Josh: ⁓ yeah, I was actually in an interview last week for a different job and, she like is doing what she did now. I just was like, yep, I have a senior dog. Like she needs, she needs some love. Sorry. And of course they were like, that's yeah, they were like, it's very unprofessional. I'm like, ⁓ that seems like a you problem.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, no, don't apologize to me Yes. I'm sorry, but do you have it? Have you been around a dog? Like sometimes they just be doing sometimes they just be doing stuff. I don't know.

Josh: Right, yeah. ⁓ So she'll just be a guest for the next few questions. ⁓ This is Ruby.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: What is, what is her name? Hi Ruby! That's my cat's name, I have a cat named Ruby. Hi Ruby!

Josh: She's old lady. ⁓ So talking about engaging with artists, with photographers and people you know, the fragrance community, especially around your brand, is very deeply engaged. How do you kind of feel like audience reaction or interaction influences your creations?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, I mean, I love that I've had such an engaged, I feel so lucky to have such a cool, like engaged group of people who are into my perfume. It definitely, definitely drives what I do and inspires me. I mean, in the most like basic way, I heard loud and clear after Rabbit Rabbit was a seasonal set, people were so upset when I took it away. I was getting emails every day asking for it back. And so I ended up bringing it back as a permanent part of the collection. Sometimes it's just as simple as that. I get a lot of messages on Instagram. I read them all, I promise. I don't always have time to respond to everything, but the fact that people are so interested in talking to me about what I do and connecting to me, I just always want it to be like that. I always want it to be a super open communication. ⁓ So I'm super inspired by the people that are interested in my work. ⁓ I find that I draw like a very interesting, fun crowd of people too. So I'm always curious to hear what they want from me, what they want to see from Pear Fat. Iris, ⁓ Amelia, my ⁓ most recent collaborator on Little Star, a jewelry designer in Chicago, started out as a customer and a fan. ⁓ And then we became friends and worked on the perfume together. So I'm so open to that. I love that. I love. meeting other perfumers. ⁓ I worked with Odette, we collaborated. Again, that was someone who we connected as fans of each other's work. And then we were like, well, let's do something together. We have some similar inspirations. ⁓ Yeah, so I'm super, super inspired by the community around my work and in fragrance in general. I think it's generally such a lovely community. ⁓ There's always... There's stinkers in every bunch, most of the people who are into pear fat and that I communicate with are just so lovely, including lots of other small perfume brands. I think there's some really, really great people out there.

Josh: Right. Yeah, there's no need for the, ⁓ the negative mess, but, there's also, I'm sure you've been told this before. You are just like a living ray of sunshine. We had a very chance meeting in Nashville. ⁓ I was interviewing, ⁓ refinery and you walked in by chance and I was like, I think I know who this is because you just have this. Like the, the ethos of pear fat is you. And it's like, so there that I was like,

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: There's that. Yes, that's right. Yes! That is so, it was so funny.

Josh: I think I know who this is.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: That was so, that was honestly, Josh, like I floated out of there the rest of the day. was like, okay, no one's ever recognized me in public, let alone at a extremely cool perfume store. So you, you made my, you made my whole trip. And I love refinery and that was such a fun, that was such a fun chance meeting. It was great.

Josh: It was very fun. When talking about, obviously you love interacting with the community. You are very attached to the DIY aesthetic and kind of the personal memory and culture. When we look at the perfume industry as a whole, it's very swayed by and influenced by trends. How do you balance staying true to your vision while also potentially or maybe not wanting to capitalize on those trend moments?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, that's a, you know, this might sound, I hope this doesn't come across as like a snarky answer. I don't pay attention to that stuff. I really don't. And I hope that that doesn't come across as unkind because I don't, I also don't judge anyone who like, who is interested in trends and fragrance. I am doing something that is different. Like my perspective is not, okay, I need to make a gourmand. because fall is coming and people will want cozy smells. Like I am not even thinking like that. I, again, I'm extremely grateful that that has never felt necessary. I have found people who are connected with my work, even if I make something super like bat shit crazy, like people are still interested to smell it. And I am so grateful for that trust. I think that is what it is, is it's trust. Like people trust that what I make even if it isn't ultimately something that they wanna wear. ⁓ They know that it was made with intentionality and with creativity that comes straight from me. So I'm not offended if anyone ever is like not into what I made. I just hope that you know it came from a place of like extreme care and hard work. I think that's always what I'm trying to look for when I'm shopping for perfume too as someone who loves perfume. I love brands that I can just tell are being really authentic and are just have like a brand vision that they stick to no matter what. ⁓ So yeah, I mean, if I'm being totally honest, I am aware of fragrance trends in so far as I'm a perfume lover on the internet. So I see stuff, but it really does not, ⁓ it doesn't really inform what I do with air fat.

Josh: I do like asking about trends because it's unavoidable in the community. But by and large, the answer that I get from perfume brands that I find resonate with me the most is just that. It's not snarky. It's just true that, you know, you're not saying it in that way, but you're not a trend follower. If anything, you're a trendsetter.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, absolutely. I didn't say it, you did. No, I'm just kidding. But thank you. Yeah, you know, and that's really cool. If ultimately something I do resonates enough to create a trend, that's amazing. Again, I'm not trying to like poo poo anybody's desire to be on trend or to follow that. I think it's interesting to see, like you said, there's so many cool conversations around like, we're going back to Gourmand and this is sort of like...

Josh: Ha ha! ⁓ Taste makers. Yes.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: maybe in conversation with like body image or, you know, I think all that stuff is very interesting. There's so many levels to perfume and the way it connects with culture. And that's one of my favorite parts about it. I'm engaging with that as like a human being person who's interested in all faction, but Parafait as a brand to me exists in a space personally for me that I'm just not interested in that. It's telling my stories. It's telling Midwestern stories. It's, you know, referencing things that I think are cool. Thankfully, so far people have been with me on that. If things change in the future and I need to be more mindful of trends, who knows? We're all kind of constantly trying to respond to the world around us. But yeah, at this point, it's not something that I really focus on.

Josh: Talking about connections and telling that Midwest love story, ⁓ you're probably based in Chicago. And what role does that community ⁓ play into shaping the brand and your activities?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, think, I think sort of like I alluded to at the beginning, something really cool about Chicago is it is a very large city with a lot of creative, interesting, you know, kind of underground currents of places to be a creative person to express yourself. There's a lot of interest in that, ⁓ but it's not as kind of cemented in like the overall like, guys, than the overall trends as as like a New Yorker in LA is. ⁓ and, and again, also it's separate from Europe, you know, Europe has their own trends and their own perfume houses that have these like long storied histories. We're kind of sitting somewhere where there's no shortage of creative people. There's no shortage of interest, but there's also not a lot of perfume houses based in the Midwest, right? And that's changing. Like, you know, there's, there's myself, there's Clue, there's Agar, there's, know, there's all these kinds of cool brands popping up that have really cool, unique points of view. And I think. What's special is it's just sort of like all based on, there's no precedent. So it's all kind of coming out of very unique lived experiences, artist perspectives that we maybe haven't seen before because these are people who grew up in, you know, I mean, for me, I grew up outside of Detroit. So that's not a very, you know, I don't have lavender fields like someone who grew up in Grasse. I have a dirty old factory that's been sitting abandoned for 60 years. I'm sorry, but that's going to inform your olfactory taste. So I think we're just working with a different set of tools in the Midwest. ⁓ so I don't know any other way to be. I don't have any other set of tools to use. I could pretend to be European. I could use a bunch of French in my names and my perfumes, and that would be fine. And it might appeal to a certain person, but I think

Josh: This.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: There's like such an appetite for interesting creative work in Chicago, whatever format it takes, that ⁓ fragrance is being embraced here in a really cool way.

Josh: I really echo that. think Chicago has some of the coolest things coming out of it because there are a lot of good brands like you mentioned. There's yourself, there's Clue, Zernell Gilly, Blocky. They're all so different in presentation and ethos and style while still being very, very cool. Chicago almost feels like the next cool place for perfume in a lot of ways. ⁓

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, Sernell, yep. Yeah. I think so. I think so.

Josh: Even in mapping out who to talk to, who to interview, can I make it in person? ⁓ It was like, yeah, LA has a ton of people, New York has a ton of people, Seattle has a ton of people. Chicago has a pretty large concentration and it's growing. So I do love that.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: That's true. I think something that's cool too in Chicago, ⁓ in New York and these types of places, a lot of times it's like there's already a scent bar, there's already a stel, there's sort of like a hub for, this is where I go to find out about new niche perfume. The cool thing with, at least with my ⁓ journey into retailers in Chicago, one of the first things I did was had my perfumes in vending machines. There's a company in Chicago called Good Things Vending. And they put vending machines in like bars and cultural centers. You know, they have one in like one of the botanic gardens in Chicago. And the whole idea is that it's filled with like local art, you know, little, little trinkets, things that you wouldn't normally find in a, in a vending machine. And so I had samples of pear fat in a vending machine. That was like one of the first places that I sold it that wasn't my website. And I love that Chicago is like open to that kind of thing. ⁓ You know, I've now I have. ⁓ There's a really interesting spot in Chicago called the Center for Order and Experimentation. It's sort of like part coffee shop, part art studio, part pen stationery store, and then my perfumes are there, clues there. It's such an interestingly curated space. I feel like Chicago has all these sort of like unexpected places to find perfumes, especially from the local creators. ⁓ But I think maybe it's a little harder to like zero in on those things if you're like visiting New York for the first time, like you're gonna go to Cent Bar, right? And that's great. I mean, they have a great selection of stuff, but I think it's kind of fun in Chicago that you can kind of stumble upon perfumes in a interesting way that might not happen in a bigger city.

Josh: Absolutely. And you've been in that community, you've hosted workshops and really helped to foster that sense of community around Scent in Chicago. Can you talk to us a little bit about what that experience has been like?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, so, I mean, really what it stems from is I just got so fricking jazzed when I took my first perfume class and it just like blew open my brain in such a way that felt so inspiring. And I think a lot of people are looking for that. think it's really easy as an adult, especially to kind of like lose your sense of creativity. people all the time will say like, well, I'm not creative. It's like, no, you absolutely are. Like we just need to figure out a way to. get you inspired. so since that was so powerful for me in 2019, you know, kind of starting to mess around with that, I'm like, okay, we mess around with painting, we mess around with music, you know, we get little experiences through life typically to try these things. People don't get experiences to try making perfume. People don't get experiences to smell. pure patchouli oil or I so we super some kind of interesting flavor compound that they'll recognize next time they're chewing a piece of gum. There's so many interesting things that you can do with smell and we do not explore that at all most of the time. We're almost kind of like taught to not. It's sort of like, oh, don't wear too much perfume, don't be stinky, wear deodorant. The idea of like an odd or different smell entering your. space is still sort of like a no-no. So I love bringing people together and being like, okay, so you can make art with smell. And people are like, whoa, you know, and then I show them like the smell of geosmin or something, which is like this super, yeah, I'm sure you've smelled geosmin, petrichor, earthy, rainy. And people are like, whoa, I smelled this when I went outside this morning. That's exactly the smell. And then I can explain to them how cool it is that they're literally smelling the same. molecule. I just have it bottled up for perfume. ⁓ There's something so fun and it keeps me really inspired to the stuff people come up with in workshops, everyone gets to make their own perfume. I give like some rough guidelines, know, kind of keep people like, make sure that people want are safe, you know, using things safely. And two, you know, give people enough guidance that they won't leave with something that they like the smell of, But other than that, I kind of let people go wild. And I think it's so fun and freeing to try something so different and so out of the wheelhouse of what most people's creative endeavors are. And I just think that's so fun. ⁓ And I love that I had a chance to get that from IAL, so I want to give that to other people too.

Josh: think that's what. Absolutely. think that's one of the things that I enjoy most about collecting kind of the unusual and the odd fragrances is TikTok has that kind of dreaded word of unwearable and nothing is unwearable. It just might not be your style. It might not be something that you wear on every occasion. I have plenty of fragrances that I would not wear to a work meeting or a dinner date. But yeah, there are days that I want to wear

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I agree. Mm-hmm.

Josh: zoologist T. Rex, I want to smell like brisket. Like, that's fine. It's fun. That's the joy of fragrance. ⁓ And I think for me, being able to, you know, my little catalog of super weird samples where maybe I don't need a bottle of it, but being able to show my friends, yes, you can smell like burnt circuit boards and banana. Because why not?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: I agree. I agree. But I mean, to me, it's like, I think that you're hitting on exactly it. Like, this is the same conversation to me sometimes that people have about like longevity, where everyone is obsessed with fragrance, like lasting for a really long time. I always think about it like this. Haven't you ever heard a song that's like a minute and 30 seconds long, and it's like the best song you've ever heard, and you're so sad that it's over and you just like replay the song? Like to me, that's the perfume that kind of disappears quickly. Or you have this like bombastic, heavy, like, You know, I love ⁓ one of my favorites is Varanasi from Meo Fusini. ⁓ Have you smelled this? Do know this one? It is animalic. The notes list of it is this long. It's rubbery, it's spicy, it's heavy. That is the kind of thing where I'm like, I would not put this on and go out to dinner. But man, I think it's a frickin' And to me, it's like, to keep going on the song analogy, it's like, if it was like a crazy heavy metal song, I wouldn't put it on with my mom in the car.

Josh: I don't think so.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Like, I don't know, you know, like it's like different things for different occasions. And, and I mean, maybe people will hate that I say this, but like, I don't even always buy perfume because I want to wear it. Sometimes I just respect it so much as a piece of art. ⁓ and you know, like samples are great for that. I'm not saying I'm like running out, dropping hundreds of dollars on perfumes I'm not wearing, but as a collector, yes, yes. As a collector, love exactly, exactly. And as a collector of perfumes myself,

Josh: it. it is for someone. Someone will love it.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: I have so much respect for a weird release or a funky note or something that's kind of challenging, just as much as I do for like something that I would grab any day and wear and be happy with. know, both of those things have a place, I think. And I love to kind of exist in the middle. Like that's where I love to be, so.

Josh: I think you're. Yeah, your Halloween release kind of goes into that where I got to smell them and the fantasy accord of TV static was something very intriguing to me. And I was like, wow, this is a really bristly, unusual, cool fragrance. ⁓ It's not something that I'm going to wear on my morning runs. Like, but the joy of entertaining it like that, you know, heavy metal song when when the mood is right.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Josh: That is a great option. ⁓ And it's so cool that we have brands like Parafrat that are willing to do that because so often, especially when you get PE involved or stakeholders or a larger cosmetic company, they care about bottom line. It doesn't have to be, you know, going too far out of the marketability and the wearability ⁓ start to limit what you can do.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Well, I don't think that that scent is for anywhere and everywhere. I do, I mean, I do wear that and I think lots of people do. You know, I think, I think there are days where perfume can almost be sort of like an armor. And some days perfume for me is like, I'm in my own bubble. I don't really want to talk to anybody. I love to wear that if I am going to like watch a scary movie or go to a theater and see a scary movie. Like I'm all about scenting for the occasion. And that is definitely, especially with the Halloween fragrances, like. That's, to me, that is setting the mood. You wear that to create the vibe, to be like in the Halloween mindset. But I also totally get like, you probably don't wear that to school or like to, you know, to church or.

Josh: I mean again, if it's the mood, you know

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: You never know, you never know. I think there's really a place for everything and intentionality and like artistry, think are the things that make it worthwhile, even if it's not, like you mentioned T-Rex. I don't personally like the smell of that. Like, don't, and I don't think I'm alone in that. You know, like I don't, don't smell it and go, but I do think it's very cool storytelling with fragrance. And some people probably smell great wearing that. I mean, some people. I think it's like outfits too, like sometimes you just have to be pulling it off. Like sometimes it's the confidence to pull it off.

Josh: That distinctly reminds me, I was in New York in February, hanging out with some of the perfume people that I've met. And ⁓ one of them was wearing, it was by Silhouette Perfume Molotov Cocktail, which is a filthy, smoky, civet rose. ⁓ And they put on quite a lot of it. It worked because we knew their style, we knew their perfume, and it works for them. creates this influence.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: ⁓ yeah, yeah. Yes. You gotta love perfume people. Yes, yes.

Josh: And then we got on the subway to go from where Stell was to Bergdorf. And we realized we had like half a train car to ourselves because there was very clearly this aura. like someone else that was in our group was like, I'm a little nauseous. You might have overdone it this time.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Everyone was like, whoa! So funny. That's so funny. That's so funny. When I was in New York last winter for Scent Explorer, Michael Nordstrand, I'm not sure if you've ever chatted with him, he's amazing. He was a big mentor, teacher of mine from Institute for Art and All Faction. But we went out for dinner with a bunch of perfumers and had like a table of 19 of us. And it was funny because at one set, every single seat had scent strips. We all had scent strips in front of us. We were all just... spraying perfume in this restaurant. I'm like, everyone around here is probably like, get out of here. These crazy perfume people. It was really funny. Yeah.

Josh: We did the same thing. We were at a cafe just having lunch and we were like, so what did you buy? Can I smell that? And then were like, we probably shouldn't be doing that.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Like everyone is probably like, get out of here. We're at this nice restaurant in Chelsea Market and like everyone is probably like, you're ruining our dinner go. We were having a great time.

Josh: Yeah. ⁓ So, thinking about that, talking to people and that kind of enabling self-expression and playfulness, do you have any advice that you would give to ⁓ indie perfumers or even people that are just kind of starting that vision or that dream?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, I mean, I think the best advice that was given to me starting out like from a practical side of things is, you know, get your when you have kind of a basic organ, ⁓ challenge yourself to do everything you possibly can with those materials. I think something when people are just getting started in perfumery, and perfume collecting too, you know, there's sort of this mindset of like, well, the more materials I have, the easier time I'll have making a perfume. or, I know I want to have this note and this note and base note says that this is what I'll make that. So I'm just going to buy this whole list of materials. That is a really quick way to, to one, have a palette that you don't really understand and to two, to waste a lot of money. And it's not a cheap thing to get into. So I always recommend, and I have a list that I will happily send to anyone interested, hello at pairfatparfum.com, email me if you need. But yeah, I think. learning the basics, learning your materials really well, you know, start with 20, 50 materials and learn them super, super fricking well and learn everything that you can do with those materials before you start expanding your palette. think in understanding what you have on hand before you buy new things is so important. And that's on a more practical side. I mean, on a more like creative side, ⁓ I think if anything, the advice that I can give that has worked for me is to not follow trends, again, like not to, not to hate on anybody who is, but I think there's so many, there's so much room and so much interest in like unique voices in perfumery. So if it is genuinely something that someone wants to do, tell your story exactly how you want to tell it. Because if you're being authentic, it will resonate with someone. ⁓ you know, even unwearable, unwearable, longevity, all these things, you know, all of that can get discussed later on, but. Ultimately, if you're going to create perfume, you want to be authentic, you want to be honest, and you want to make something that you think is cool. If you're doing that, I think the right people will find it always.

Josh: Yeah, I think the advice around the organ is really interesting because it reminds me of anyone who's been to art school. I very briefly had art school. You know, that when you have to use only the primary colors to start and you're like, ⁓ but can I just buy a nice shade of brown? And they're like, no, you have to learn.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep, you need to learn to make it, yeah, no, 100%. It's really easy too with fragrance, like aroma. I think again, it goes into this whole thing where it's not something, like we never messed around with it like we did with painting in school, or we never, you like you get a little bit of that maybe, you know, in public elementary school, you do a little painting. Most people have never done anything with an aroma chemical, right? Other than wear perfume, you probably have no experience with it. I think people should absolutely be encouraged. to experiment and play with it, but start small. Just start small. There's cool resources out there. ⁓ Really knowing what you have and really deeply experiencing. Like I still go through and smell my materials all the time to make sure that I'm up to date on them, to make sure that I'm remembering what I have. And I mean, I have probably close to 800 things in my organ now. So every day I'll just pull something out, smell it, take some notes on it, just remind myself, you know, what it is and. why I got it and why I connect with it.

Josh: Yeah, I've been experimenting with the decay of ethyl maltol. ⁓ Yeah, so it's been the last few days.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: ⁓ yeah, okay. Cotton candy. I find ⁓ ethyl maltol when you combine it with certain things kind of almost has like a rotten fruit smell. Yeah. People always say cotton candy, which is definitely true, but.

Josh: I'd love to see. Yeah, I've been. ⁓ yeah, yeah, mean, just sugar.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Super sugary. Super, super sugary.

Josh: So looking ahead, are there any themes or projects that you're working on or perhaps collaborations that you're to tell folks about?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah. So ⁓ Charismatic Megaflora, my most recent core collection fragrance that'll available round came out. That is ⁓ really kind of like a Frankenflower vibes. I wanted to kind of like a dream flower. it includes Lang Lang, Jasmine. I use this material that I've been dying to use in a perfume for a long time called Boronia. It's this Australian beautiful like pink kind of bushy flower. And the smell is on its own is like so complex. ⁓ Black tea and fruit and just this beautiful, beautiful floral. So that's kind of like the star of the show. ⁓ And then there's sort of a soily, gravelly note to it. So it's just sort of this like jungle flower. really, really cool. And then the return of my Halloween fragrances also just happened. So that's only a witch cat inspired by the seventies Japanese film house and be very afraid inspired by David Cronenberg films and body horror, really fun, kind of like spooky ones to wear for Halloween season. They're always really popular. So it's super exciting to have them back. ⁓ And then going forward for holiday season, we're looking at a re-release of Les Chaussons Rouge with Odette. And I know people will be excited to hear about that. And ⁓ also the return of La Befada, my holiday perfume. And that's the Italian Christmas witch. So it's kind of a witchy, blue-tansy, herbal, of fun wintery perfume.

Josh: So lots of limited editions if you want your chance to get them now is the time.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Yeah, yeah, this is the season. Yes, this is the season. I like to do a lot of that over kind of the end of the year, the holiday, just return to some favorites and ⁓ make sure people can get their hands on some of the some of the stuff that it can be hard to get sometimes.

Josh: love it. So thank you so much for your time today. Can you let the folks listening know where to find you both in person and online?

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Absolutely. So you can find me online at pearfatparfum.com also at pearfat.parfum on Instagram. In person, I have a growing list of great retail partners that you can shop. You can find that on my website and I will also be on LuckyScent shortly. So you can also find me via LuckyScent. Yeah.

Josh: Awesome, congratulations. Thank you so much and we'll catch you in the next episode. Bye everyone.

Alie, Pearfat Parfum: Thank you. Yeah, I'm so excited. Thank you, Josh. Appreciate it.