Paula Morales: So I think the first time that Scent felt spiritually significant to me was when I got a chance to really pay attention at being around the fire in a Mayan ceremony, right? There's kopal that is actually offered. There's jaggery, there's sugar, there's flour, sometimes there's bread. And so the smell when the and there's wax, right? Because we also offer candles. So the moment all of that starts and the fire gets big, you start feeling that mix of all of these scents. And it's just That literal connection, right? Between the earth, the elements, but also the world and the underworld, the connection to the ancestors. So I think definitely that in a in an aware way. I feel like as a child, now that I look back, I can say, ⁓ when my grandma, you know, would put agua florida on me or or put cologne on me or those moments, right? ⁓ like taking a bath as a kid, like I can see that. being kind of spiritual in a way as well, but like it wasn't intentionally spiritual. Michelle DeLorenzo: Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us. For those who don't know you, can you please introduce yourself? Paula Morales: Yeah. ⁓ first of all thank you for having me. My name is Paula Morales and ⁓ I'm an artist, I'm a maker, I am a Mayan timekeeper, and ⁓ I'm a perfume enthusiast and perfumery student. So that's a little bit about me. Michelle DeLorenzo: ⁓ and IRL friend, which I'm very excited to have you here. Josh: Pala and their partner are also known as the Pataya Collective, if you have seen ⁓ their medias. Michelle DeLorenzo: Welcome. So let's ⁓ let's jump in. Was ⁓ was fragrance already part of ⁓ your spiritual practices growing up or did that connection emerge later on for you? Paula Morales: I mean, I grew up Catholic. Well, that's a big stretch. I mean, my dad was Catholic and I would go to church with my dad. my mom wouldn't come to church. ⁓ so yes, in the sense that there was always frankincense, you know, in the church and that kind of thing. I also became seventh day Adventist because I was al always at my neighbor's house. So they adopted me and I would go with them. I never really knew I was practicing though. But but I feel like Josh: Okay. Paula Morales: Maybe around the house there was incest? Not not really. I think that's the short answer. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: It's funny when we talk to fragrance in like spiritual practices, especially as kids, ⁓ because you kind of lack the awareness of like the historical weight of any religious practice. But like Catholics do have a lot of incense. ⁓ a lot of religious practices have a lot of various forms of incense. But then like I grew up Pentecostal in the South, and they don't have that same fragrant attachment. So like when I think of scent and religion as a in my childhood, I think of like moist carpet, like dusty church. Right. And like old trailer, ⁓ because our youth group was at a trailer. And like it's a very strange association. And I think it's part of why I'm so enamored by church incense fragrances now is because I don't have any of that attachment. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Paula Morales: Youth group Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Paula Morales: Well, my school was initially opened for missionary kids back in the sixties and in the eighties it was opened for everybody. So my parents put us both in that school to learn English. But so it was Baptist meets Pentecostal sometimes meets Lutheran sometimes. So it was I really grew up in a mix of all kinds of of religions, but spiritually my grandma she used to have an altar, my my mom's mom, and she had a Jesus, she had a Buddha, and ⁓ she believed in a lot of like like mudras and things that came from India so she always had you know a glass of water and she always did have incense. I don't think I understood what was going on. I just found it fascinating, you know, because there was all these little knick-knacks on top of her ⁓ altar and I'd be like cool like but I had no idea Michelle DeLorenzo: what kind of memories and emotions do scents unlock for you that others don't? Paula Morales: ⁓ it's just immediate. ⁓ just today my aunt and uncle were here and we went into a store and it smelled a mix between like plastic and and new, the new smell. And I remember telling my aunt, I was like, Hey, this is what the states smell like. Cause when people would come to the states and it would come and back and would bring a gift or something, it would smell like that new, like and I said I'm like, the longer I've lived here, the less I can notice that smell because now Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: I live in it, right? But that's like that that connection of like of newness. It's just like a moment, like you know, it's so connected to flavor too. So, like food, right? Like, it reminds me of a certain time in my in my childhood. I remember we had a tent that was like always put away. We rarely camped, but the smell of that tent was so specific, and it was like very similar to the box where I kept my Barbies, right? So I don't know, it's like time travel and it's Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: its own in its own way. I really, really love it. It's just one of those things where you could just be like, ⁓ come smell this and then pff and we're all gonna be transported to different places, which I think that's like so freaking magical. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I those moments when ⁓ I something and it unlocks a memory, something that I haven't thought of in decades. ⁓ And it happened to me recently with ⁓ a bottle. I I had known that I really liked ⁓ Jasmine Yucatan from DS and Durga. And it was really like the only one that I liked. And then I got it and I got it on skin ⁓ and it. ⁓ you know, just at home and lived with it for a little bit. And I'm like, ⁓ I love this because it reminds me of making pasta and bread in the kitchen with my grandfather as a kid. And like I had not thought of of doing that. And it was such a it was such a weekly routine for so much of my childhood that I think I blocked it out because it was a little traumatizing of my grandfather like yelling, No, you're not doing it right. ⁓ so it was just, it was interesting that it Paula Morales: Mm. Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: It's something I had smelled multiple times and then there was just that light bulb moment. But I love I love when that happens. And I think it's what it's one of those things that makes me keep coming back to fragrance as almost like a vehicle to ⁓ to deconstruct my past in a way. Paula Morales: Yeah, and sometimes it's like what you were sharing right now. It's like so happenstance. I remember falling in love with a Fegia perfume, the Apis Muscara one, which is which is honey. And it's just a very straightforward honey without being cloying. It's just very photorealistic. And I actually got a bottle of it and loved it. And then ⁓ as time went by, ⁓ this something very similar happened where I was like, wait, this smells like something I know. And it smells ex- Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Paula Morales: Exactly like my grandfather's pipe tobacco. Like exactly. And today that my uncle was here, I was like, please smell this. Because of course I had to have him smell a whole bunch of fragrances. And I was like, please smell this. And he did. And he's ⁓ it smells like honey. And I'm like, does it not smell like my grandfather's pipe? And he's like, ⁓ my god, yes, it's like exactly the same. And I was like, it's like so crazy. And there's no tobacco note in there, right? At all. But it's like oof. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Yeah. Josh: Yeah, there's those moments too where it's not even a conscious recognition. Like you smell something and you're like, Whoa, where is this taking me? Like I'm having this very strong moment. ⁓ I know I was I was sitting in a doctor's office in like the waiting room and this lady pulled out a bottle, this like little pink bottle of Bath and Body Works lotion. I don't know what the scent was specifically, but she went to put it on and like as soon as she popped the cap on it, I was like, I remember this. Why do I remember this? And I had to like sit there with it for a minute. And I remembered when my aunt died, it was the first dead person I'd ever seen. And my family felt it was very important to see the body and say goodbye. And I remember my grandmother was rubbing lotion on her hands, and it was like distinctly whatever that fragrance was. And I was like, ⁓ okay. That's why I don't like this lotion. Michelle DeLorenzo: ⁓ boy. Josh: ⁓ yeah, we're heading into some cool territory here though. ⁓ you know, across cultures and history and time, scent is tied to mourning and to ritual and to burial and remembrance. Why do you think fragrance and death have coexisted? Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Paula Morales: I don't know, like from a technical and just observational standpoint, I think because of the way it's preserving, right? I think of the Egyptians, I think of the Mayans, the Incans. and also just because I think Death wasn't seen as something bad. I think that's just a very modern thing. Like death was seen as a continuation. It was most oftentimes seen as a privilege, at least in in in great parts of the Mayan culture, right? you would offer yourself and continue in the in the other side. And so I think scent is is a vehicle, kind of like what we were saying earlier, right? Like it's just a vehicle that almost dresses up. that intangible connection because I think that our connection to death and the unseen and the intangible is is hard because we are a society or a species that wants to be convinced of existence. And so when we can't see something, there's no proof, right? How do we how can we tell, right? So when we have scents that are connected by association or by ritual or whatever it may be culturally to situations that are connected to death, then we're like, And then Something really cool that I was talking to a friend recently about is that there used to be the Greek fumigations, for example, right? Because it is known that a lot of the incenses that are burned are also they have calming effects. Like Boswellia Serrata, which is the scientific name for frankincense, is an anti-inflammatory effect. It does calm. So by having these huge places full of this smoke, people would calm down. So when you are in an erratic moment of expelling. emotions being able to chill and being able to chill the whole population all at once through ritual, you know. I think about the Coliseum, right? And where they would throw flowers in the arena because the arena would soak up all the blood and the place smelled really bad. So sometimes it was to mask. We think about Versailles, right? Like so but it's always been connected to death, right? Because there's no life without death. Josh: Mm. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Do you think that scent changes the way we process absence? Paula Morales: I do. I think it's a it's a key aspect to integration, right? It's a key act aspect to integration from the like energetic and and maybe even psychological kind of way, right? Of actually an analyzing and integrating our emotions in our life. But also I feel like what we just talked about the lotion with your aunt, it's I truly believe that. That our energy doesn't die, that our soul doesn't die. So to me, that story is like, ⁓ your aunt was saying hi, right? So it's like it's beautiful to to make that connection. And I think Mark Marin, who's the comedian, his his partner died recently. And so in his stand-up, he was saying, you know, some people say that our dead come in birds. And so I have all these birds on my deck, but how do I know which of my dead is which bird? And and can I tell them to not shit on the deck? Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: Please. Anyway, so there's stories that we tell ourselves, but then there's also these connections. Like this literally smelled like that moment. Like that's not that's not superficial. That's not something you made up. It actually happened. And knowing that apparently memory is something that we forget the more we remember is mind-blowing. Because then our memories pretty much don't even exist. Right? So I think scent is that like kind of like with. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: Malleable. Paula Morales: Literally, because it's also so volatile quite molecularly. So it's like the fact that, ⁓ I get this whiff of whatever, and then it's gone forever. It's never gonna be the same spray, it's never gonna be the same composition. It's just literally the personification of of the fleeting moment, right? Of of again life and death, right? Josh: Yeah, I think there is something to be said about absence and fragrance. you know, to anyone who has lost a parent, I think, you know, it's a really complicated grief process. ⁓ it doesn't matter what your relationship was. And I remember ⁓ after I lost my mom, the first time I smelled honeysuckle, like real honeysuckle, ⁓ Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Josh: I I became very emotional because it was just that association of like sitting on the porch with her and like the conversation and the silence with that scent then changed ⁓ the association. And it had to had to take time to become accustomed to that absence and to that silence with that scent. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. I find myself, ⁓ after losing my dad, having a lot of scent aversions ⁓ things like like there's certain soapy scents that I have a hard time smelling because they remind me ⁓ like the harder months of like taking care of him and cleaning him. ⁓ those sense because I those are not memories I I want to remember. So I'm kind of I'm struggling. when those come up in scent, whether it be, you know, body care products or or fragrances. But then there are other fragrances that I use for comfort when I want to remember him from my youth, like lilac fragrances like I've mentioned before, or gasoline fragrances like I've mentioned before. But it's ⁓ it's amazing how it's become a very tool for me to feel connected and to To kind of replace some of those bad memories from the end with with, you know, my youth and when he was young and healthy and and thriving. Paula Morales: Yeah, it's the first time that as you both share this that I think about fragrance and its volume. But not like scientifically, but what you were saying loud and and silent, you know. My mom, she would get migraines a lot. So very rarely would she wear perfume. She really liked vervena, she really liked citruses, and I think it has to do with them being volatile and so them leaving really quick. But to me Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: It's more of like, I don't know, I'm so enthralled with objects and places and moments. So it's not just her as like her humanity, but it's more of like, you know, when I fry onions to put in the black beans, I'm like, that smells like my grandma's house on a Saturday night. Like, and that encompasses like everything, right? And I'm in my grief process in the part, I think it's 13 years this year that my mom passed. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: Suddenly. Rude. And she, you know, I'm at peace with it. I I actually am able to remember her joyfully. And I I am able to also very be very grateful because I understand that if she wouldn't have passed, a lot of other connections wouldn't have happened. And so that that moment of transformation, right? That took a lot. You know, I barely talked to my dad, and now we're like friends, like all these things. open. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: This stage for I think other scents too, right? Of like one thing that doesn't change, I don't think, worldwide is the the smell of wet dirt, right? For example. So that that same smell, the geosmint is gonna be universal and then you know, etc. I could go on forever. So I'm gonna pause. Josh: I I think it's really magical the way that I mean it's it's documented and studied the way that scent is a gap ⁓ a bridge between the physical and the psychological. But I I really think ⁓ one the things we were talking about wanting to discuss in this episode was that fragrance can also function as that bridge between the physical and the psychological and the spiritual. Paula Morales: so was born in Guatemala during the Civil War. There was a thirty-six year civil war in Guatemala and it brought along a whole bunch of things. And including there was f more than forty-five thousand disappeared people. ⁓ interesting fact is that before the Central American, South American Wars, there really wasn't the word disappeared in that sense didn't exist because, you know, you couldn't disappear. But it became a word and Speaking about my grandparents, there was this photo of my aunt there and nobody talked about her and nobody said who she was. She was one of the forty-five thousand disappeared. And I think Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: I now understand, you know, my grandmother's connection to spirituality, right? or the secrecy, the secrecy of things, of like things you can't talk about in certain areas because it's dangerous, ⁓ which then become these silences that we replicate. I think there's that connection, right? Again, that the mourning, the silence. Which can also like silence can be imposed, but it could also be a pause, right? So I think that connection. So I al I was the firstborn after her disappearance. The peace accords were signed in 1991. I was born in 1983. And that's also kind of funny because you can't sign peace, right? Like, how do you do that? So I think there's always this connection in my perspective as sense being a doorway, right? Scent being a doorway. An invitation, a portal to possibility. But not in a sense of kumbaya, but more of in a sense of. Freedom can have a smell, but like going back to the rain and the geosmin, the dirt is still gonna smell the same, right? You can be celebrating life when it rains because there was a baby that was born and brought into the earth. The rain is gonna smell the same, right? You can be celebrating death because you're bringing the body back to the earth. And so I think it all goes back to ritual, right? To ritual, to to witnessing. I think it has to do with evidence, it has to do with With witnessing what you shared, we need to see the body because we need to know what happened. And I don't know if for me it was helpful that I didn't see my mother's body because I'm I have a photographic memory. And so I chose not to see her body. And so some part of my existence feels like she's on a trip somewhere, which she very much probably is, right? So yeah, yeah. Josh: There is a ⁓ I think there's a a deep psychological drive for ⁓ as humans to know. And ⁓ there is a finality, I think, to to seeing a loved one ⁓ when their body is no longer them. And ⁓ talked a lot about that in ⁓ of my death in the afterlife classes. I was going to be a like funeral practitioner, but I yeah, my religious studies background goes into like death in the afterlife, mourning practices, things of that nature. ⁓ surprise to no one. But ⁓ when when you look into like death practices around the world, there is this element of needing to come to terms with that separation of the person and the body. And it's only really when you get into like the Victorians, of course. That like modern funeral practices start to develop in this idea of preserving and to hold on to and to keep someone as they were. Paula Morales: No, I remember going to the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City, and there is a replica of the first burial. And I remember seeing it and saying, this is what started everything. Right? This is the beginning of the end because it's the first time where we decide to remember, right? Before we're nomads and we're like, well, grandma died, cool, let's keep on going. And now it was like, no, like, there needs to be this evidence, there needs to be this evidence. This place as we become sedentary, right? There needs to be that remembrance and that honor. and so it's just wild to me. I was like, this is that moment, right? When we decide to start creating all of these rituals, what would have happened if this wouldn't have happened, right? If we would have just moved on. Michelle DeLorenzo: so Josh, we definitely we definitely overlap in that, ⁓ that aspect of you wanting to to work in the funeral business. Growing up, my mom was ⁓ a a cosmetologist in a funeral home. So I spent ⁓ much my childhood ⁓ waiting her to get off of work and ⁓ nearly day after school, sitting in the funeral home, watching her do makeup and ⁓ you know, w ⁓ Paula Morales: Mm-hmm. Michelle DeLorenzo: seeing, you know, all the funerals taking place. And so it's and it was, it was great to see different cultures also interacting in that space. But I I even still to this day, like I the whole idea of how we do it and how we, you know, sit in a room for, you know, nowadays I feel like it's, it's less, but back then it was like, sometimes over a week of people sitting there and I'm like, why? Why do people do this to themselves? And I distinctly remember all the sense of of everything that was going on. And it's it makes me think very differently and like in the traditions that my family has built in celebrating someone's life rather than feeling you know, this overwhelming sadness and like the the Italians are like they're they're known for like jumping in the casket, screaming, crying, sort of thing, you know? ⁓ but I also almost worked in a morgue doing ⁓ photography for ⁓ medical photography. So I'm so glad I didn't take that path. And I I don't I don't know if I could have handled it long term. Josh: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: Well as a kid when you asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up, I wanted to work at a circus. So I'm kinda glad that didn't happen. Even though I'm still kinda clowning around anyway, right? But Josh: Yeah. When we think about the way I mean there's obviously the very physical element of death that we've been discussing, but how do how do your spiritual practices shape the way you think about memory and ancestry? Paula Morales: so as a Mayan I do have a relationship with the Mayan calendar daily, right? ⁓ I know what day it is, I know what cycle we're in, ⁓ etc. In that in with the Gregorian calendar, ⁓ I'm able to, ⁓ know. ⁓ map out who is doing what in the tree. I spend a numerous amount of years working with my family tree. I started with 30 people and I have more than forty, five hundred now. in a means to not just work with the family tree, but work with kind of family constellations and metagenealogy, kind of finding out what was going on in the past, what why were things passed on, also speaking energetically, starting from names to sicknesses to deaths, etc. And so to me, I ha we have an altar at the house. We're always burning candles as offerings. ⁓ we're always ⁓ offering smoke, offering food, offering so there's that that connection of, you know, and I know Everyone that I have birth dates close to me and my family, what their Mayan energies are, so then I'll be like, you know, this is my grandma, so this means this, and this means that. And so there's a lot of interweaving and interconnecting behind the scenes, but also in that relationship of like, ⁓ it was my mom's birthday. She really liked this dish. Let me cook it and we're we're gonna eat it. So there's there's those actual rituals of let's do ceremonies. Let's just let a light a candle, change the water, set some alcohol. and then the day to day, like I really believe that life is a ceremony, right? It's not just a a place you go to in certain moments, so there is that connection, and that ancestors are with us and and live through us. The older I get, the more I see my mom in my face, which is very creepy. But that's how genes work, children. Michelle DeLorenzo: So ⁓ of the things you've mentioned in our conversations was working on your archive and how that led you into fragrance. ⁓ can you talk about the archive and what it meant to engage with your history in that way? Paula Morales: Yeah, of course. So like I was saying earlier, I was the firstborn out of nine on my maternal side. So I was loved by everyone because everyone I think was tired of mourning. And so I was very loved by my grandparents and my parents and ⁓ I I started getting a lot of oral history. Like I grew up around them. I would go between my hometown and and their city and I would hear all these firsthand accounts. And when I turned 14, I was like, okay, what so what happened to this lady? Like We need to figure it out. So I started like recollecting. She used to be a poet. So, like, you know, her writings, like newspaper clippings. I started kind of asking around. And so that became The early stages of me then becoming a photographer, right? I was shooting a lot of bands and just like rock stuff and punk and whatever. And then I actually became a documentary photographer, worked at some newspapers, and actually covered some of the clandestine cemeteries during the war with photography. And so my grandfather shot photos, my mom shot photos, and so with time I started photographing just I I turned the lens on on our family. So it was like, ⁓ my grandfather, he got Dementia. So I started documenting his journey and I had this, I actually did this show where I was like, it's crazy because we want to keep her memory alive, but he's losing his memory. How does this work? Like, what is memory? And so I photographed him, he then passed. So I continued to photograph the same places, but him no longer in the places, right? Then my grandmother got sick, so her getting sick, and then my mom and my grandmother visiting the cemetery. ⁓ then my my grandmother dying and my mom mourning her mother on the bed where there was portraits of her mother before. ⁓ photographing the absence of the house than when all of us came together to empty the house. And so at that point, many people in the family didn't really care about the objects and the stuff. And to me I was like, I I need to keep this. Like I need to find out all these things. So I took two huge suitcases and and with everyone's permission, I started taking documents and books and and bits and pieces. And and then after that I started interviewing people. Because on my dad's side, my grandfather left when my dad was three. So there was all these stories, but I was like, who was this guy? And so I started finding who his brother was. And anyway, to tell you, I had. The WhatsApp number from the guy in the tiny town in Italy that worked at a registry. Because I was in WhatsApp, like I'm like, hey, can you look at this registry? Anyway, so I started mapping all of these things, like interviewing people that went to school with my aunt, reading the letters and being like, okay, this happened here, this because my family didn't want to talk about it. That's the thing. Like, people don't want to talk about it. And so then my mom passed away. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: So then it was like photographing that, her funeral, photographing my dad watching soccer, wearing all black, r you know, photographing the bed undone only on one side, you know, then photographing her clothes and her her stuff and And and so I became a keeper of stories, but also a keeper keeper of things. Like I have my grandma's lipsticks, right? Like I have my grandfather's glasses, like ⁓ the shirt my aunt was wearing in that photo that was in the living room. And so to me, this is ongoing for more than twenty-five years, and to me this is gonna be a multimedia book. And I am a photographer, I'm an illustrator, I do analog visuals, I I have all these mediums. And so to me, one day I was like, scent. So how could I have I not thought about scent and connection to memory? Like, how have I not thought about that? And so I was like, I remember Heather, right? I I I got to have a meeting with her, and I was like, ⁓ my god, like this is where I'm at. We connected through tarot and other cool things, and I was like, What do I do? Like what do you and she's like, why don't you learn it? And I was like, that's a great question. And I was like, you know, that is that's a a great idea because I don't know. At this point, I think I had already taken a nose training class with Arabelle Sicardi. And I was I've always loved perfume. Like I was that's like, you know, a given. But I was like, my god. And so that Michelle DeLorenzo: No Josh: Mm. Paula Morales: Freaking put me in a rabbit hole where I now have an organ with more than a hundred aroma chemicals, and I have made lots of mixes because the idea then was this is my vision. My vision is for this to be like a big book that's inside of a box, and you let's say open to a random page and it'll say, ⁓ tell you a story, or you can actually pull out a letter that's like a replica from the archive, you can read it, and then it'll say, like, spray. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha. Paula Morales: Bottle number three, you know, and listen to I don't know playlist number two because there'll be interviews that go or a song, or maybe like you're listening to the rain fall on water while you're reading the letter and smelling the thing, and so that's the that's the ongoing because I'm always like you can smell scent, but then I'm also like, what does scent sound like, right? So I'm like, I'm on this ongoing also journey of like how can I use the analog. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: synthesizers to use the water as a catalyst to listen molecul anyway so there's all these like interwoven parts of the archive I think is the it's like a living system Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Paula Morales: And to me, I feel like I am not having children. I feel like almost like the tree ends here in my side of the family. It ends here. So I almost feel like, you know, those shrimp that cleaned the tanks. Like I feel like that's my role. Like I'm cleaning, organizing, and then I want to give that back to the family. Be like, here, this is and not just to my family, but to anyone. Because anyone that has gone through grief, anyone that has gone through sadness or happiness or Love or hunger is gonna see themselves in that. So it's not about me and my family, it's a bigger, you know, conversation. Michelle DeLorenzo: it sounds like an incredible, incredible project. I can't wait to see what you do with it. ⁓ I trust anything in your hands as as somebody who is ⁓ consumed the that you've been making, your your ⁓ cards, your tote bag comes with me everywhere, seeing your art. It's smelling of your early mods. ⁓ I I have full faith that this is gonna be incredible. Paula Morales: Thank you. Josh: It's very interesting that ⁓ when you talk to your your photography work, particularly again around absence, ⁓ this study of absence, my family ⁓ kept alive the practice of death photography up until my mom died in twenty twenty one. and when ⁓ after my mom died, my dad had to go into assisted living and my brother and I had to go through their belongings. My mom was more than a bit of a hoarder. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. ⁓ wow. Josh: So I ended up with these boxes and boxes and boxes of photos of people I didn't know. And ⁓ it was like a ⁓ several month process taking time to go through this binder today. And a recurring question with my brother and I, and it became half joke, but also very real, was who is this person and are they alive in this photo? Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: ⁓ and it it was an interesting thing 'cause initially I found it very, very strange. But like as I worked through my own grief, I started to understand it more. That idea of keeping something, having something to keep, having something to witness. ⁓ in a way creating an archive. of course then When I moved, I had to go through and I'd be like, Okay, but if I don't know these people, I probably don't need these photos 'cause there's no one to tell me who they are anymore. Michelle DeLorenzo: Did you get rid of them? Paula Morales: I mean Josh: Yeah. ⁓ I I mean I kept ⁓ I have a single box now of family photos. My mom's side of the family, my dad's, ⁓ my brother and I. and then when Brian and I were splitting and starting the divorce process, I had to separate our family photos. And the general consensus was if it looked it like Cuban, if it like sepia toned and golden and beautiful and beachy, it was Brian's. If it looked like Appalachian horror, it was my family. And that was how we separated all the photos. Paula Morales: ⁓ my god. But it's funny because I went through this this phase of like so I did documentary. I thought I was gonna work at AP or EFE, like that was like my goal. When I started photography school in San Francisco, I was already 27 and I had been doing it for years. But at some point I remember when Photoshop was being taught back in the thirteen hundreds and I was like, no, because I was a documentary photographer, everything had to be measured in camera, like da-da-da-da-da. And then I was like, dude, like the industry's gonna leave you. So I was like, Cool. I learned Photoshop, and that's where shit hit the fan. Because I was like, wait, I can edit video in Photoshop. So I started editing video with layers, and and then I was like, wait, and so I was enthralled with death all the time. And so I tin types, tin types. I started collecting tin types, and I started making these collages layered collages on the tin types and making this fantastic, like I have the hair sisters, which are these ladies with just like huge hair coming out, or these bunny heads with like and then I was. Like, wait, why am I doing collages? Why don't I just shoot this in real life? So I I would get models and then I would have like you know, I would get the backdrop of of the studio and I would make a huge paper boat and then shoot on location and then edit that. But to me, like All of that, daguerreotypes, tin types, death photography, and everything that's connected to that, like locks of hair, teeth, like ⁓ there's just such like it's weird and and gross a little bit, I guess, but to me it's just so fascinating. Like, imagine how beautiful having this braided hair ring. Like now we're like, ⁓ they're dead, like meh, you know, like what are we what are we doing? Yeah, keeping keeping up with the Victorians. I think that should be another podcast. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. ⁓ Josh: The Victorians, man. ⁓ Michelle DeLorenzo: Listen, me and me and Liz, the from the Vapory Parade, have been talking about how desperately we want to find a full set. And I forget the name of them, but they were these basically like little yes for ⁓ my god from the Victorian Ever era. And they were have you ever seen them, Josh? They had like, ⁓ mean, like a perfume bottle and a notebook and your makeup and your key. And I'm like Paula Morales: Shadow lanes. Josh: Mm-hmm. Michelle DeLorenzo: God, we've all we've always just loved our little trinkets, haven't we? Paula Morales: Liz was screaming in excitement when we were at the perfume passage because they had a col that place is mind blowing, but they had a collection of chatelaines that pristine condition. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. ⁓ and I found one recently. I found one on Mercari recently and it was I think like thirteen hundred dollars and I was like, ⁓ my god, what do I have to do to budget to have this right now? Josh: Listen, I it's funny when you said like we all love our little trinkets because when you were talking about wanting to find one of those, I flashed back to you. I had a I had a dog named Bosco, ⁓ previously. I had to put him down in twenty twenty two. his name was Bosco, and I was just after that bidding on the reliquie of Saint Bosco and I wanted to put his tooth in the reliquie and I thought it was very meta. ⁓ but like Michelle DeLorenzo: ⁓ my gosh. Josh: What what is a relic if not just a religious trinket? Like Paula Morales: Well yeah, and even cathedrals in the Spanish colonies, like you it wouldn't be I don't know if this is still a thing. I actually wanna figure it out, but f in order for it to be a cathedral, there had to be saint bones under it. So Guatemala City used to be in this valley and there was a big earthquake in nineteen fifteen, so they had to relocate the entire city to where it's now. And so the old city is called Antigua Guatemala or Antique Guatemala, and so that That church is no longer a cathedral. It's it's just a church because they took the saint bones from under to take to the other church. So, and if you go to Catarina or what that's her name in Siena, where it's just her head or the finger of San Francisco de Assis, like I love like I love medieval times, dude. They're just like, let's cut that saint's tongue, you know, like we need to display that. Josh: Yeah. Love a relic. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, I mean and then not even getting into like the practice of anchorites, another medieval Catholic practice, they would ⁓ take often women who were mentally ill, who had visions and sights and sounds, and they would actually bury them in the walls of the church while they were making it, and they would leave a single brick open to feed and water them so they could be a channel for the divine. Michelle DeLorenzo: ⁓ it's wild. Paula Morales: ⁓ my god, I don't think I knew this. Josh: They were an anchor for the church, the anchorites. And then eventually when they did pass, they would just seal that last brick. Paula Morales: Dude, is that what Pink Floyd was talking about? Michelle DeLorenzo: Well. Well, this is so this is one of my missions for when I when I'm in Italy because so also grew up Catholic and my ⁓ grandfather built a church in ⁓ in Calabria and w his dying wish when was that we would take his ashes and put his ashes to be built into the wall of the church. Logistically, it's Paula Morales: Wow. Michelle DeLorenzo: incredibly difficult to take over an entire box of ashes. ⁓ but we when they passed, we had gotten our our my mom has the big box, and then each of the grandkids got a small urn of each of my grandparents. And so it's my mission while I'm there with the 12 hours that I have a free time to meet up with some member of my family to get this these tiny boxes. to them to put in the church in Calabria. Yeah. It is, it is. Yeah. No, he was Poppy. Yeah. Nanny and Poppy. Paula Morales: That's beautiful. Welcome back home. Nono Did you call him Nono? Josh: Quite a journey. Yeah. Paula Morales: Poppy. Nice. Josh: Speaking on churches and cathedrals and all of the fun things, ⁓ do you think fragrance changes the emotional or spiritual quality of a space? Paula Morales: Yeah. Absolutely. You know, some baccarat rouge, for example, will definitely make me leave, for example, some Dior Swash, I'm like, bye. but you know, if I get like a smoky closet perfume with some birch tar and some pignon, I'm like, yay. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha Paula Morales: No, I yeah, of course. I think something we haven't talked about that is really connected to everything is intentionality, right? I think, you know, we could burn a tire and say it's a ritual, right? But like what what are we doing? Why are we doing it? I remember being really young and going through photography books with one of my best friends and being so pissed off that the photos were were not focused. And I was like, how are these published? Like what the hell, you know? But maybe years later I was like, ⁓ because there's an actual intention behind all of these people's work. and so I think the same thing with with scent, right? I feel like What is our connection and our intention with what we are doing, whether it be a ritual, whether it be, you know, I'm not Catholic, but I will I will be respectful in a Catholic church. I I do understand it's a different vehicle for for spirituality, right? The same with a a mosque or with with a a Buddhist temple, right? I feel like it goes back to to to honor, to respect. And we can't respect and honor the dead if we're not respecting ourselves. And those that are alive. So I totally think that it changes. And I go back to that fumigation thing that I talked about earlier, right? Like I think that's so trippy to me. Or or the oracle, what you just said about the church. I think about the Oracle of Delphi, right? You know, there's all these accounts where she was getting all these fumes from the inside of the earth, right? Because why would a woman channel? and it's these things where it's like you can't really make these accounts up, right? Josh: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: Why were people continuing to burn frankincense, right? Why were continu people continuing to use ⁓ You know, turmeric or where did Atars come from, right? Like when we look again at the mummies in Egypt or in Cusco, etc. Like, what why were they using these things? It wasn't happenstance. There was an intention. There was a proven intention. It was a technology. When we think about technology, we oftentimes think of only about machines. But we don't think about indigenous technologies, right? We don't think about oral tradition and we don't think about scent inheritance, you know, and how that is also connected To racism many times, right? How many people grew up ⁓ being picked on because their food was stinky or because ⁓ they smelled bad or smelled different, but that's a lack of understanding, right? So I think the intention goes hand in hand with understanding that you might not understand something that doesn't mean it is wrong or it is bad. And that is totally reflected in what we see in social media too, right? When people spray on a perfume for three seconds the first time ever, and they decide. It's horrible. And they know nothing about it. They don't know the perfumer. They don't know the process. They don't know. so yeah, all to say I do think that fragrance changes emotional or the spiritual quality of a space because you're preparing. It's like ushering. Josh: For sure. I think that immediately made me think of ⁓ in when we were chatting a couple days ago on rituals. ⁓ and like when people hear the word ritual, they often think something very formal and they think something very old. But ritual is inherent to the human experience. We all have rituals that we do daily, and it's the intention that you go into a ritual that gives it spiritual significance. ⁓ making your bed daily. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Josh: is a habit, but if you make your bed daily with the intention of it starting your day, it becomes a ritual. And I think fragrance is such an interesting intersection where there are people who just put on a fragrance as a habit. But I think a lot of people in our discussions across the episodes of the podcast do have a a daily ritual with their fragrance. ⁓ when we talk about it being like an armor for the day or a protection for the day. What is the That if not witchcraft. That's a ritual. Like Paula Morales: But also just in general, like I also think how it's connected to status. Cause I remember growing up in Guatemala and being a teenager and knowing all these people that owned really expensive designer fragrances, but they didn't really like I mean they weren't opulent people, right? But it was this thing of like, ⁓ but I wear Carolina Herrera two on two, you know, or like I have aqua di G, or like this, that and the other. And so to me, I always thought that was interesting, right? It's like I might not have. But I smell really expensive, so that makes me you know my intention is for you to to fool you with that fragrance and so yeah it it's interesting yeah Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. it makes me think. So ⁓ you posted a video very recently about ⁓ you know, the longevity of a fragrance and why it really does not mean that much. And it came up in conversation. We were talking with Michael Nordstrand, and I'm ⁓ and been thinking in my head that it's something that truly doesn't matter to me very much at all either, ⁓ how a fragrance lasts, because bringing a fragrance with me. ⁓ And taking moments throughout the day to reapply almost feels like a mindfulness break for myself. In the same way that it does in the morning when it's the thing that the first thing I do after dropping off the kids to calm down and do something for myself. It's the same throughout the day that I'm taking this moment to care for myself, to apply my fragrance and to connect with that and connect with my senses. So it's very much just. Yes, do I want to smell good? Sure. But every time I do it, it feels like a moment where I'm caring for myself. And that's, you know, what I want more people to think of. Like the longevity is not everything. Use it, use it in a positive way. Paula Morales: Well and I think that's what like what Josh was talking about right now, right? The difference between ritual and not ritual, I think is what you're saying right now, it's care, right? And I think to me Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: The widespread lack of wanting to learn, because I wouldn't say ignorance. I think ignorance is when you don't know something and you don't know you don't know it. But I think all of these falsities that come along with like longevity equals quality, or for example, also the whole myth of maceration that people have created when that's literally not what maceration is, but nobody wants to Google it or or go to a library about it. So I think it goes back to care. Like why? And if you have a curated collection. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Paula Morales: I don't care if you have five or three hundred perfumes, it doesn't matter. But is it with care? Or is it because you don't want to be left out, right? Or is it because you have FOMO, right? Because I've seen firsthand people that are in debt that I'm like, there where's the care to that, right? Like so, and this is a balancing act in every aspect of life, right? How are we? And it's hard because nobody teaches us to adult, right? So it's like you have to brush your teeth and take care of your skin and take care of, and then if you have children, ⁓ my god, that's a whole other layer. People are heroes. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: But so I think it it it boils down to care, right? It boils down to care, it boils down to intention, which intention is care. It boils down to respect, right? Because what, you know, like you said, after I drop off my kids, that means you care that they're not smelling like that fragrance, or you thought about it. So there there's a you know, or when people are like, ⁓ I sprayed 50 sprays on me, and I'm like, that's great, but where are you going? Because if you're going to the gym, there's other people, so I don't know. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: It has to do with how we how we inhabit relationality. And in this era of broadcasting, I feel like it's very easy to feel disconnected and wanting to be connected through replicating versus through actual connection and care. Josh: I fully agree. And I I would also say that there there needs to be an element of connection to the fragrance and where it's from. And this goes into we've talked about it a few times on the podcast, you know, appropriation and appreciation, but also just an awareness. And like, I was very fortunate that in my job I've had to travel extensively. And my thing was trying to find a perfume. Brand from wherever I was traveling. So, like in Mexico City, I got to go to Ginu. I got to see, you know, the, I mean, one of the most beautiful boutiques I've ever been to, but they have the raw ingredients that go into each of their fragrances surrounding it. And you really get to understand as they talk about each of the ingredients that's in a perfume, why it's significant to it being a Mexican perfume, whether it's the types of tobacco and where they're from, or the copal. And then That's also true of other brands like Paramsara, you know, the Bodhi. It talks a lot about incense in that context and not a Catholic context. There's like a trueness and an authenticity to the ingredients that I don't have to be part of those cultures to appreciate that they are significant. And if I'm going to wear this perfume and enjoy this perfume, I need to be aware of that context and that weight. Paula Morales: And that to me opens Another portal into also the way things are harvested, you know, who harvests them, the way things are distilled and how they are processed, right? You know, Shinu is a great example because we also have master perfumer Rodrigo Flores Ru behind it. So you know it's gonna be masterpieces and it's very well curated in that sense. But it's very culturally significant for Mexico, right? ⁓ I think about White Sage, and I think about this beautiful poet and scholar, his name is Bayoaca. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: And so white sage is over harvested, it's an indigenous plant. And there was a moment where I think even Sephora was selling white sage, right? And so all these people were like, ⁓ but that's a close practice, like this, that, and the other. And he said, Has anybody asked the sage how she feels? And so that goes back to, in my opinion, of relationality, right? How are we relation having relationships to the land, right? How are we connecting to The elements, how are we inhabiting our body when we go through these big transitions? Like we talked about the death of our parents in a way or another, there we need to call ourselves back, right? We need to call ourselves back. It is very easy to enact enact certain things without having to confront them. But I think that when we understand that you need more than four hundred metric tons of rose petals to be able to distill an essential oil. That is this big, you might have an understanding on how insane that is. And then you ask yourself, where's the rose being being planted? What does that soil look like? Who's taking care of that soil? Who's nourishing the soil? Roses are one of the most finicky plants out there. They get sick by just looking at them. So imagine having that successful harvest of 400 metric tons. Like that's mind-blowing, right? again, I'm just gonna plug everybody. Belle Siccardi's book, everybody that is into fragrance, that is you should read that. That opens your eyes and your mind. And the way it's written, it's neurodivergent friendly. Like she did a great job with that, or they did a great job with that. I think. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Paula Morales: ourselves right like what performance are we putting in because I think there's a difference between performance and ritual and I think it's very easy to just fall into the performance of like ⁓ but I need to look a certain way ⁓ but I need to be a certain way ⁓ but I you know I'm too big I'm too small I'm too loud I'm too Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: The more you lean into yourself, and as corny as that may sound, as cringe as that may sound, the more you're gonna understand the observation of your relationship to what surrounds you. Like, you know, I think about textiles too. What are we wearing? And I'm not saying go buy some sheep and make your own wool because good luck, right? But I was very like, I have a spot to garden now, let me plant my food. I harvested a spoonful of black beans. So we have Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: Have this idea that before, sometime before, everything was better. But we don't realize we're already in the future of what we were when we were asking those questions. So it's kind of saying we can't go to to a before, right? But we can go to an after with an intention. Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: And understand that many of the things that are are kind of suffocating us quite literally and metaphorically also have to do with colonial mindsets, right? But knowing that there's parallel realities that we are already creating, queer realities, indigenous realities, indigenous and queer reality, like all kinds, right? You like you like designer, go for it. But did you know that this smells like, you know, the foot of a parakeet inside of a cave and well, no you do. 'Cause that's what we like. You know what I mean? So I don't know. I feel like there's a beauty in the i in between a rock and a hard place. In that pressure. Like that's how diamonds are made. Josh: I I certainly agree. And thinking about kind of trying to package we've talked about a lot of topics so far that ⁓ tonight, you know, how do you feel like fragrance carries parts of people forward? Paula Morales: Again, I don't think it's people. I think it's encounters, right? Cause I don't miss my mom's body. Like I miss her essence, right? Like, so I think it's about You know, there's a specific plant that's called Loroko that's only in Central America. When you boil that or you cook with it, it's so fragrant and green. Like I can't explain that to you. You know, you have to you have to pr have that presence. So I and I think that's it. It brings presence, right? It brings presence. So it's like I can get really meta with this, right? Like it's like, do we even exist, right? Like are we just smells? And I'm actually reading this book that Agustin Segares from Magarol Factive, they're amazing, told me to read. It's called We the Bacteria. Michelle DeLorenzo: Love love them. Paula Morales: my god, everyone should read this book too. It literally poses that bacteria are the first architects, right? Because they were and they are and they continue. And it goes into how we pollute, right? But it says, how do we pollute through bacteria? Like, have we thought that going to the moon we're bringing bacteria from the earth and how bacteria are thriving in nuclear sites? How our own gut has its own microbiome. And if we live with other people, our colonies of bacteria. Are connected to the people we live with. And so I remember thinking, I'm so hungry, are you? Or is it the microbiome in your body, right? Like all the microbi the small bacteria that live on your face and your hair. And so it's this thing of like our Is relationship, is humanity like about presence and essence, or is it about absence? Right? Because I feel like, and I always say it's speaking about ancestors. I always say this to people like honor the people that are alive. Go hug your aunt and your uncle. Go go freaking hug everyone that's here. Call them up, see how they're doing. Because everyone's like, ⁓ I like really like love my ancestors. It's like, yeah, bitch, but you're not like honoring. Are alive, right? So it's like when we think about scent, I'm like, maybe we're just floating clouds of microbiomes of fragrance, and that's what we're connected to. But it's like kind of like the siash, right? Like it's like you need to be gone to actually to actually present. Like, I can't miss you if you're here. Josh: Yeah. Michelle DeLorenzo: Okay. Yeah. Josh: ⁓ man, that's gotta be said at someone's funeral from the fragrance community. Their siage will be smelled long after they've left the room. Michelle DeLorenzo: Ha ha ha. Paula Morales: Maybe we could the three of us could start a company where we actually just write. You know, it's a a mix of both of y'all growing up in these in the mortuary business and then we could just be like, We will write fragrance only though. Michelle DeLorenzo: Like it. Josh: Yeah. I mean I'm I am ordained. I I've done weddings and funerals, so Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. ⁓ my goodness. So this makes me to connect it to a completely, you know, odd place, but I was listening to I listened to a lot of true crime podcasts. and I was listening to one on ⁓ Kaylee Anthony, ⁓ Casey Anthony's daughter, and I had no idea this detail of the case that they had actually used ⁓ I I forgot the the mechanism, but to capture the scent and the molecules in the air of her car to show what had that there was chloroform present and ⁓ all these other things that mean the presence of a decomposing body being in the car. And it was such this odd moment for me of thinking of scent in this scientific way that like and and it now that you said we are bacteria, like wow, this is this is this is who we are, this is who we become. This is what we we leave behind without knowing it. ⁓ but it was just a really fascinating connection that made me think of it. So I'm sorry for that major downer, but Paula Morales: And No, no, no. I think ⁓ that ties in actually perfectly because I've been I think what you were saying is kind of similar to I think what they did with Cloud Reverie, where they got like the molecules. I've been super into the parallels between the aroma molecules that live inside of the human body and that are also used in fragrance. So we have aldehydes in our body, ⁓ we have indol in our body, and indol to me is a molecule that actually sums up everything we're talking about. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: Talking about because depending the dilution of indol, we have florals, right? Or we have decay. And fun fact is that indel is used to train cadaver dogs. And and so Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. ⁓ I didn't know that. Paula Morales: Literally, it smells like the beautiful flowers that signify life and happiness and blooming, but it also signifies death. And when we decompose, more indol is produced. But we also have indol in our intestines as we speak. And so to me, I'm like that one mom. Literally traces life and death from beginning to end. And that is something that I'm really enthralled in at this moment. Instead of thinking about compositions, haha, I'm thinking about decompositions. Did you see that? That was not planned. Anyway, and literally, like instead of what happens when we mix them, what happens when we remove them? And I was able to get some cadaverine and some scatle. Michelle DeLorenzo: Hehehehehe Paula Morales: in that search of of smelling life and death and decomposition, I have still not smelled them though. I'm I'm Because a thing that I want to merge is using spirituality as a vehicle paired with scent. So meditation channeling to then work with what needs to come out. So instead of saying, ⁓ I want this perfume to smell like this or this portrait to smell like this, it's like, okay, I'm gonna go into meditation, I'm gonna smell aldehyde 13, I'm gonna smell, you know, whatever, anesic something. And then And see what emerges from that. ⁓ So that's kind of where we're at. And I think it's it's exciting. Like I feel I used to get these incredible anxiety attacks, and I could not ride the bus. Like the bus would come, I could not get on. And I would do this for like four or five times until I had to like realize I'm gonna be late and I would have to walk two hours across San Francisco because I could not manage to get on the bus. ⁓ And so to me, this is before collecting and or anything. ⁓ I realized that lavender and pepper mixed together really helped ground me and really helped again bringing myself back into my Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Paula Morales: body that's kind of what I was talking about earlier, right? I think when we are there's a trauma experience, there's something happening at our energetic level, we leave our body. And as I started having my spiritual awareness, I started realizing that you know I also used to have a whole bunch of migraines because my energy would go to my head. So it's like going back into your body and scent literally does that. Also for neurodiverse people, right? There's oftentimes alexithemia so you lose track of time, right? There's also I forgot what it's called, but when you don't feel yourself in your body. so there are ways. There's also techniques, right? You know, you could also look at your finger and move it side to side. You're connecting your left lobe with your right lobe. So there is science to these things of using fragrance as a tool. ⁓ and it doesn't have to be a fully developed perfume, it could it could literally just be a natural essence or or you know, I don't know, I want to smell chocolate. That reminds me of being safe, right? Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm-hmm. Josh: Yeah I yeah, in talking to scent and memory I think that brings us to our closing ritual. what fragrances are closest to memory for you right now? Paula Morales: I think Kopal is definitely one of them. and I am also really into colognes right now. It's weird. Like I just want like a fresh pick me up something that doesn't overwhelm me. ⁓ so I've been really liking citrus. citrus stuff. And also I started infusing oils. So and glycerides. So I've been using that also as like something to nourish myself, but also bring me back, calm me down. Ground meat, peppermint, what herbs was I using? Pericong. Pericong is like a Guatemalan marigold. But yeah, I feel like I'm I'm shedding a lot in the sense that I I think less is more right now. Josh: What about you, Michy? Michelle DeLorenzo: ⁓ didn't. closest memory right now, ⁓ I living with ⁓ Mango gasoline. ⁓ so reviewed this recently. This is from Boho Boko, ⁓ and as I mentioned before, gasoline fragrances very much remind me of my father. And this like very specifically reminds me of being on Coney Island Beach in the summertimes. And yeah, it's it's one of the few fragrances that I think really gets gasoline right and in a very wearable way. And it's not the fragrance that you would think somebody would use to remember their their dead parent. ⁓ because it seems so silly, but it's It struck me on such a deeply, deeply personal level. ⁓ and I really I I didn't expect it when I when I received it. So yeah. Josh: Yeah, I think I also kind of have a weird one. It's the new release by ⁓ Haney, Ethernet. ⁓ it's a fragrance that the whole basis around the fragrance was the the phrase touch grass. So it's supposed to be this like grassy element. But for me, ⁓ I found it to be really amazing. My grandmother lived on a trailer on our property in the middle of nowhere in Georgia. And after she died, my parents sold the trailer and it was taken away. And Michelle DeLorenzo: Mm. Josh: I didn't have a lot of friends growing up. My grandmother was like my best friend, ⁓ all through like up to middle school. And I found myself in the summer, like just laying in the field where the house used to be to try to feel closer to her. And there's something about the way the vetiver and the grass in Ethernet play that remind me of that like long summer grass, the like dry brown, long grass. ⁓ Paula Morales: Uh-huh. Josh: And it just takes me back to that like peaceful like laying in the sun, in the grass, trying to be close to an absence, actually. So it does kind of tie into the episode as well. those were all of the questions we had for tonight. ⁓ around, you know, death and memory and ritual and all of these great topics that ⁓ I not have ⁓ wanted to talk to anyone else about other than you, Paula. So thank you for joining us tonight. Michelle DeLorenzo: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, we love you. We hope to have you back again soon because I feel like there's so much more that we need to talk about. Paula Morales: Thank you, likewise. Thank you for having me. Josh: Well thank you. ⁓ can you let folks know where to find you and your goods online? Paula Morales: course. ⁓ I'm the Pitaya Collective on Instagram and TikTok and you can go at the Pitaya Collective dot com to check out our services and our shop. Josh: And ⁓ if enjoyed this and any of our other episodes, ⁓ it's time to plug in and say please like and subscribe. It does really help us reach new audiences. So thank you so much, and we will see you next week. Michelle DeLorenzo: Thank you, love you, bye.