Usha: awesome. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Animal Aspirations Podcast. We're back from Spring Break, so tune in. ⁓ Joy: podcast sharing conversations with veterinary students, professionals and people working across different animal related careers. Usha: Our goal is simple, it's to educate, inspire, and diversify the veterinary profession. Joy: Today we're joined by Shreya to talk about her journey so far as a vet student and the things that she does behind the scenes to help with the climate. Usha: So let's get into it. Joy: Okay, Shreya could you please give us a bit of an introduction about yourself? Shreya: Sure, I'm currently a fifth year Vet student at the University of Cambridge. I'm from an Indian background, traditionally. My parents came through the kind of the East Africa route. So we've got kind of roots in Uganda, Tanzania, Kenya, that sort of area. And also ⁓ like generation immigrant. So that obviously plays into it because Vet Med is a slightly strange place ⁓ when a person of color. But yeah, I guess I've ended up working a little bit in sustainability. outside and hopefully in the future alongside my kind of vet studies and vet career. So yeah, not entirely sure what kind of vet I want to be, but yeah, that's about me. Usha: Nice. Do you have... I know you just said you don't know what kind of vet do you want to be, but what kind of animals are you drawn towards at the moment? Or what kind of work? Shreya: Yeah. Yeah, it's difficult because I love animals, I really do, but I find small animals hard I don't like being indoors all day and I also have found so many ethical challenges with it. People are so, I think, without paying for health in the UK, it's really hard to understand what health care actually costs. And so I found there are so many ethical problems with smallies for me. I struggle with farm, although I really enjoyed farm placements because Usha: If Mmm. Shreya: I'm vegan and vet student and so those things can sometimes seem a little bit incompatible. don't think they are, but I'm sure about that. And then equine also really loved equine experience, but I'm not too sure about that also. So I think I may end up, I have no idea, basically. I'll decide as I go. But I am considering possibly working on food systems ⁓ with an NGO or in terms of policy or something, Usha: Yeah. Shreya: ⁓ which, yeah. that also has its problems. I'm not sure. And I feel like hopefully that's a bit relatable. But being a fifth year, I kind of need to get my act together at some point. Although it is a six year course, so it could be worse. Usha: You Yeah, no, definitely. Ha Yeah, no, I feel like Vet Med is the place. If you want welfare and ethical dilemmas and things to reflect on, you made it to the right industry. Joy: that's Shreya: Yup. Joy: also discussed a bit about sustainability. Like what first got you interested in sustainability and climate advocacy? Shreya: Yeah, I think it's something I've always felt a strong connection to nature. I'm happiest outdoors in places that feel wild and like most close to what I think the earth should look like. And so it's always been something I felt strongly about, but I don't know, ⁓ community I grew up with ⁓ school, ⁓ wasn't really a thing. Like I grew up in the time when ⁓ were like striking off of school like Fridays for Future, but ⁓ never saw that around me. I didn't have any like school kids or like none of my friends ⁓ of that. kind of mindset and I'd always, I was raised vegetarian for ethical reasons and I felt really strongly about that and I learnt more, I think, about the environmental consequences as a side avenue of entering kind of a vegan diet and transitioning to more plant-based food and living. As I learnt more about food systems in terms of my ethics, I also learnt more about the kind of the emissions side of things and so it just seemed a bit nonsensical to me and I was kind of picking up on all these ⁓ in the ways that we view things and the ways that we act. ⁓ And so I think that's what got me into it. But to be honest, I had done nothing to do with sustainability before uni. My whole first year was so overwhelmed with vet med. I hadn't done anything to do with sustainability then either. It was kind of just by chance that a student who was graduating that year, he was a fourth year engineer. He was finishing up his time at Cambridge and at Cambridge we have this weird college system. So it's like there's 31 Harry Potter houses and you sort of like live there and eat there and technically you're Usha: Hahaha Shreya: I guess a lot of your friends end up being from there, everyone does different subjects, there are only two other vets in my year in my college. So you kind of meet a lot of different people through that. ⁓ And he had sort of been involved in environmental society within the college. ⁓ And ⁓ he was kind of looking to see if anyone wanted take it on. And I just thought, ⁓ okay, well, ⁓ there's no one else, I guess I'll it a And so I learned a little bit from him. And then I found some younger students the next year who wanted to help. so... I guess that was my way of getting some sort of in the door. again, Cambridge is a really weird and unique place. mean, it's a lot of hate relationships, to be honest, because with the college system, they all have their own unique sets of policies. And the central university has its own set of policies. And all the different schools and departments and faculties have their own policies too. And nothing that the central university does trickles down to the colleges or the departments. And that's a big problem because that means there's no consistency. ⁓ Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: Some colleges are doing really progressive but they don't want to publish that. And so you as a student don't know, no one else knows because they're scared, I guess. But the whole power of going to places like Cambridge is telling people that we're doing this thing and hoping other people learn from that. And so I guess was a steep curve. there was a brilliant zoology professor within my college who in my first meeting with because I asked if I could sit on a meeting ⁓ through my role as running this environmental society, he of picked up that I was trying to up and like... I don't know, he created a space in that meeting which was so alien to me. And again, I'm a vet student, I'm a first year, I have no background in environmental science or anything. And yet I somehow felt empowered to speak up, particularly about catering, because I just thought there was more we could be doing. yeah, that's a lot more backstory. But this one professor, he sort of took me aside afterwards and said, like, you absolutely should feel like you can speak up in these settings. You're a stakeholder in this college, in this university. And he offered to kind of meet with me separately to... give me the lowdown on what was happening. And so it was through meeting individuals that could teach me things. It kind of went from there. So yeah, I think that's, I guess how I first ended up ⁓ doing it. Usha: Wait, that's really cool, because we were gonna ask this anyway, but like, I think this flows really perfectly, because we were gonna ask like how much influence... like is realistic for students to have when they enter these spaces and talk about university policy? Because it does feel like there's a lot of like red tape you have to work through. And like you said, you know, there's like the big person and then everything flows down from there. And then here you are as a student advocate. So how does that, how does that work? Shreya: you It varies and there are different seasons to be honest and I... While I felt I learnt a lot and I definitely went through a lot of character building by being sat in those meetings often as like the only young person, possibly the only person of colour. And it was difficult and I learnt a lot and I enjoyed it because I was being so pushed out of my comfort zone. ⁓ yeah, my influence was massively limited and I don't think anything has changed in my college for the better because of me. ⁓ ⁓ fine. I think the influence I've managed to have ⁓ I was was grappling with this myself thinking I feel like I'm not doing much here but I also feel like the idea of having all these students Usha: Mm. Shreya: with me in it not just being me. That was really helpful and it was things like these students were having even bigger and bolder ideas than me about different socials we should do or about how to implement composting or I was just thinking ⁓ I'm just going to give up on this whole composting idea like I don't want to do it it's not going to happen and I had younger students who were sort of coming up with creative solutions and pushing me ⁓ to going ⁓ and suddenly realized the power of actually like collective action it sounds so stupid because obviously collective action works but I'd never experienced that before ⁓ and Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: What I then wanted to do from then, the next year, was to set up workshops because I tried to meet other students who were running environmental groups within their colleges, not for the university, but within colleges. And there were only two others, out of 31 colleges. And each of these colleges have like two or more drinking societies and only three in total had an environmental group. And I just thought, my God, like there must be basically no student work going on within the colleges. Everyone's going straight to the uni level, not realizing that these policies don't trickle down. And so I set up Usha: Yeah. . Shreya: workshops to gather students who weren't in any formal role but just wanted to maybe set up a society like that and I don't even remember how I found these people individually but I did and over the year we had about 50 people come ⁓ maybe four or five workshops and we had some repeaters ⁓ we went in two years from having just three groups to having about 11 and there's currently I think 17 or possibly more than that ⁓ obviously it's like if your friend is part of one of these Usha: That's too nice. And. Shreya: We know that it's a thing you can do and you can learn quite easily from them how to set one up. But the workshops are really practical. I'd say just send this email to this person, work out how to get funding now, like do it all in the session while we're here together. We had like accountability partners, so people didn't feel so alone in it and it worked. And I now know so much about the individual policies and what different colleges are strong at and what others are weak at. ⁓ so again, it's not a massive amount of influence I've had myself, but I think by connecting other people and I guess it's like Usha: Okay. Okay. Shreya: training other people to train other people sort of thing. I think that's worked. And I also just joined more organizations after that because I'd always looked at students who were going to climate conferences or were involved with a charity or an NGO and I just thought like, my God, how did they end up being approached to do this sort of thing at this age? That's so strange. And then I realized actually you could just like reach out, you could just send an email to a group of people that you look up to and think, you know, would benefit from being surrounded by people like that. Because at this point I had like Usha: Mm-hmm. And. Shreya: no vegan friends, I had no real friends in environmentalism other than the younger students and I felt a bit like I was parenting people so it was a bit strange, I just wanted to connect with more people. And so I ended up running the Climate Society that I'd been part of to start those workshops just because I was showing up, I didn't have any particular skills or backgrounds, I just showed up because I wanted to make friends through that group and so I ended up applying to run it and I got that and I've had amazing opportunities and I've learnt so much about... how this university works through being in that particular role. with that, I knew that past presidents of this society had attended international climate conferences like the COPS. So not everyone what these are, but it stands for the Conference of Parties. It's the biggest conference in the world for anything ever. ⁓ And it's by the UN every year, and it's been going on. since the 90s and it's meant to bring every single nation and every single party together to discuss climate change and there are loads of streams of negotiation so for vets like One Health and Public Health is covered, if thought of, and food systems they're not as big as they should be but food systems are being discussed in agriculture, land use, oceans are discussed, biodiversity crisis is discussed, so Usha: Mm. Shreya: I think through realising that past presidents had gone to this conference through the university and then I realised, my god, I'm in that position, like, I need to monopolise this, I need to try and find a way to get there. And the university didn't have enough spaces, but I found a charity. I reached out to them and, funny enough, the woman that has started this charity did so in her last year at the same college as me at Cambridge. ⁓ And only found this out in my interview with her. ⁓ And got on amazingly, like, she'd run the Vegan Society at Cambridge and we just immediately clicked. And so I ended up going. to Azerbaijan with that NGO and I still work with them now so that was two cups ago and yeah it's just the power of collective action and again it was picking things surprisingly strategic so the charity that I work with it's called Climate Talk and the ⁓ that they work is by trying to demystify climate policy for young people so there's so many young people entering these conference spaces ⁓ it's our future that's being decided on again we should with stakeholders with these stakeholders in the climate crisis we should feel empowered to Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: have our voices heard and yes our voices are heard but they're not really translating into written policy. So you can talk to the person who's talking to the person that's writing stuff into the actual negotiations but there isn't a huge amount of actual power in youth at the moment and one thing that you can do is what this brilliant organization does it's try and de-jargonize the discussions and to report on the policy outcomes that are coming out of these conferences without the jargon because the language is designed to Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: be inhibitory and only if you're uber educated and if you're within the profession and you're studying this sort of thing can you actually interpret it all and so again I've loved being part of it and I feel so strongly about that as a mission as well and it's so useful to other young people and when we go to these conferences you'll hear from the strange people my god I found your webinar I found your papers like that's so ⁓ that's a really special thing to be part of so it's a lot of chance I think that I've landed in organizations that really align my values and where people I can meet other people that really feel strongly about the same thing. So yeah, I think I find it hard to say no to things which isn't the best, need better boundaries, but ⁓ it's worked out. ⁓ Usha: But I think it's really cool the way that you've been able to build ⁓ such a community, especially from something that wasn't so available before. Joy: You also discussed a bit about being difficult for youth to get involved with this due to the jargon and things like that. What advice would you give to students who want to make a change but don't know where to start, for example? Shreya: you learn from other people, be willing to sit and listen. And you're not going to immediately know what your niche might be, but the more people that you speak to, and honestly, if you're trying to get into something like sustainability, ⁓ are generally good, even if you don't align on everything that everyone does. ⁓ are generally people who care about other humans, who care about the planet. ⁓ sending little message on LinkedIn or something, like ⁓ people really likely to respond and really likely to ⁓ try help where they can. So I would say ⁓ Usha: . . Shreya: not in a bad way, but make the most of the fact that that's kind of in the nature of people that both work in Vet Med and elsewhere. They're people pleasers and it's not the best for you if you're the one being approached and trying to help everyone. But I just think ⁓ about people, it's about making those connections. ⁓ if you start to see a link, just ⁓ a little Google deep dive, just ⁓ the work and take the time to try and learn about your topic online. And there are people doing crazy things. There are so many charities and organisations run entirely off of volunteers. There's so much that you can do with your free time that actually it's not draining and I don't find it draining to work with these groups. find it gives me energy because I'm learning and I'm giving back and yeah I guess there's like a selfish aspect to working with an NGO as well because you you feel like part of a community and you gain that as well as being able to give yeah again being a Vest student ⁓ busy like no one has monopoly on the word busy everyone feels like they never have enough time. But actually my grades improved when I started doing more. Again, I said my first year I did nothing outside of vet med really other than like socialize and make friends. And my work terms of vet med, I just I don't procrastinate anymore. I do sometimes, ⁓ but I don't give myself the time to. I will give myself a set two hours or maybe a week where I block off ⁓ to just work done. And it gets done in the time you allocate. ⁓ Again, not doesn't work for everyone. Some people do need to just lock themselves in a for like a month and that's fine but I tried that and it didn't work so I wonder if more people were to try filling their time with other things that are productive like that Usha: Okay. glad those things give you energy because I feel like we were literally just talking about this. Like, I need a nap during the day, you know what I mean? But I that that's really cool that you've been able to find something that gives you, ⁓ fulfills you and also gives you energy to keep up with it. Do you ever feel like you have moments of burnout, especially trying to balance like vet med and activism? and all the events you've been to, all the coordination you've done, that's a lot of work. Shreya: Yeah, I definitely do. think the times I felt most burnt out is when I realized that people don't see value in what I'm doing. And there's plenty of people that just don't see value in what I'm doing, and that's fine. But think ⁓ I to manage, and I think a lot of that's quite bad, doing things like having boundaries and like looking after yourself instead of other people. Like that's a thing I think a lot of us are very guilty of. yeah, I... Usha: I mean. Mm. Shreya: often do feel tired and I probably do too much but sometimes I feel even more tired when I have less to do in a kind of weird way. Maybe it means that I don't really know how to have a break or like how I don't know like I think again a lot of vets would relate to that hopefully I think I've tried to be again strategic like I make sure I exercise and I think I feel better for it even if I ⁓ tired while doing it. Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: and I've started things like meditation. I think that came from, an extreme place of just like things were going really badly and I saw a meditation class advertised and I was like, I need this right now. ⁓ it did help. So I don't, I don't know. I try and, I try and balance things. It doesn't always work to be honest. ⁓ but I would say the times where I found it the hardest is when other people are really fighting what I'm doing. I I get this a lot in, in vet med. think a lot of people don't. think it's that important to work on sustainability because they don't see it as a vet problem and like that's meant to treat animals. And like for me, it's intrinsically a vet problem because the effects of climate change are going to affect how we practice and the kinds of diseases that we see, like climate change and zoonotic disease are completely intertwined. And I mean, the causes of climate change are also contributors to problems we're going to deal with. And I think a lot of the vet sector contributes directly to climate change. ⁓ Usha: And then. Shreya: through unsustainable healthcare practices, but primarily through food systems. And I think we're not taught about any of that. And the fact that I get resistance from vets or vet students is proof of the fact we're not taught about it very well. But I've got it from ⁓ university too. Like I've had pushback on things I'm doing. I've had people try to, not, I guess, I don't know what it is, but I ⁓ really to be able to go to COP29 and I was again, really lucky to get a badge for COP30. So, Again, there's a limited quota of badges that go out to different NGOs and you have to be an accredited NGO to get badges. And luckily the NGO that I work for did get more. And because I'm on their leadership team now, was offered that badge. And so when I applied for a leave of absence from my university, that was denied. And I still had no explanation as to what that was. And that was not a university decision. I know what two other students who attended. was a college decision. And so that's another weird area of where my college had the power to no. It didn't matter what my department thought. It didn't matter what senior people at the university thought. It didn't matter what the sustainability team that I'm employed by thought. It's just individuals within my college that had the power to say no. And so I think with that being said to me and having no proper explanation, I mean, my grades are fine. Like it wasn't to do with that. And it makes just think, well, what's... Usha: Hmm. Shreya: what's the point? Because I'm doing this off my own back, like it's my energy, like I believe in it, but if other people don't like, God, why even bother? But I think that's again when you need more resilience and the ability to not care what other people think. It's just annoying when other people's opinions actually inhibit work that you're trying to get done. yeah, I guess I don't have a good answer. It's the same problems everyone else has and I need to manage it better. ⁓ Usha: Yeah. Right. Joy: You discussed a bit about like the conferences and COPs. Could you tell us like what happens behind the scenes at these climate conferences that people don't usually see? Shreya: Yeah, I'd say the whole thing is, really hard to understand what they're going to be like until you're there. And for me, it was, I mean, ⁓ a strange thing as a young person, because it's good and bad to be in the room, like you're having to fly there, for example. And like, again, I think that's a stupid thing to bring up, because you're there to discuss climate stuff, and you can't have these conversations over the phone. ⁓ But there is something weird about doing that. And Usha: . Shreya: There's also this feeling of like imposter syndrome, like why me? What's the, I mean, other people would do more good or be more productive in this environment or something. But at the end of the day, I was in the room, I ended up being there. The way that they work is very strange. They're massive, absolutely massive. It can take you like 15 minutes to walk from one end to the conference hall to the other. And the timetables are absolutely hectic. There are... like central negotiations, some of them you can go into, some of them you can't, if you do go in and you're like me when I first went and you don't know all the jargon, it's really confusing and you'll have like some guy from Japan like raise his thing and start talking and then someone else from Argentina will start talking and what they're saying like isn't, they're not answering each other, they're just saying their point. And then, ⁓ mean, it's absolute jargon, like it's weird. So the negotiations are one thing and I think as a young person, there's not much point watching them unless you're specifically reporting on them. Usha: . Shreya: ⁓ But then there's also side events and there are pavilions. So you've ever been to like a com, like a, what do you call them? Like a Comic-Con type thing, it feels a bit like that. Like I've never been to one of those, but I've been to like travel shows and stuff where there are different stations and like people are advertising their thing, like whether it's a charity or an entire country. Like there was a UK pavilion and they host their own talks. So there's like 200 pavilions. They've all got their own like schedule of talks happening. So eight meetings, workshops, talks, social things happening each throughout each day. all these negotiations happening, they're all overlapping, they're all happening at the same time, there's side meetings happening. If you're in a youth organization, you might be meeting with other youth organizations to try and plan what you're doing. just stuff going on everywhere. And I think the best place to be as a young person is in the pavilions or just meeting other young people. And so I was lucky with the charity I went with. Our whole purpose is reporting for young people, but we have people at home who can do that. And so our primary role is to interview other young people to platform the work that they're doing. So it's a really lucky position because you meet like 50 or 60 other young people who are working on insanely cool things. I think the biggest thing is it's all about knowledge building and capacity building because you can't have a hope of influencing these discussions if you haven't even seen how they work and you can't see how they work without being there. You can learn a lot but yeah, I mean it's just like knowledge in general. If you're trying to acquire knowledge like you can't do it all on paper. Usha: Okay. Okay. Shreya: So yeah, hectic, really busy, full of hope when you speak to young people or indigenous peoples or when you listen to of the meetings happening in like the pavilions and the side events. And then you sit in a negotiation ⁓ you know, you can see a petro state delaying one kind negotiations in another room so that another negotiations in another room can't keep talking. And like, they don't want to use the word women ⁓ in their texts. don't want to use the word fossil fuels in their formal texts. They don't want to talk about deforestation. And Usha: And. Shreya: It's just weird. And it's also really depressing because the outcomes are never positive and they're never what you want. And the conversations you're hearing, all the right people are there, but the actual decision, I mean, you're trying to split a cake between like over 160 different people and everyone wants different things and has different priorities. it's, it's a nightmare. And whether the system actually works or not is up for debate, but it's the best system we have right now. And we're still getting most people to the table. Not everyone. anymore but yeah it's just hectic. Usha: It's interesting they're not able to use certain words. Did they just emit those themselves? They don't want to bring those topics up? Shreya: So again, like when different countries have different priorities, certain countries have the same idea of what, you know, rights ⁓ different genders are. ⁓ And in that situation, if you're trying to create a universal text that, you know, enshrines a certain human right that another country does not want enshrined into their kind of set of values, then they're going to fight back on that. ⁓ Usha: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Shreya: there are countries out there, many of whom have hosted cops, I was in Azerbaijan and like 96 % of trade is oil. That's pretty big conflict of interest in my opinion. And yet are a bunch of petro states that have huge amounts of wealth and power and they don't want you to use the word fossil fuel in your text that's about a just energy transition. So yeah, because has different priorities and nobody wants to give up. Usha: Mm. Shreya: I mean, we can see this every day, like in Cambridge, a lot of us cycle when we get older as VET students, like we get cars, like fingers crossed, like hopefully because it's really hard to do your placements without a car. a lot of local residents, you know, it's a very green party area. Like right now, everyone's voting greens. ⁓ usually Labour, Lib Dem or Green. ⁓ there are so many people who will email their MP and be like, we want this and like, why aren't you being more sustainable? And then this MP will knock on their doors and be like, Usha: Mm. Shreya: Well, we're trying to implement a low emission zone. We're trying to make you pay to drive your car through town. But you're the same person who votes against that. And you're not letting us pass through this policy. And it's so understandable because you've got kids. You don't want to pay five pounds to drop them to school. But also, we have more wealth than a lot of the world. And we're not prepared to make sacrifices for the greater good ourselves. So how can we expect another nation that's entirely dependent on oil to just give that up? know, it's so it's just difficult. There's no other word for it but difficult. Usha: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Joy: So just like zooming out a little, you discuss like Cambridge. Can you tell us why you chose Cambridge as your university? Shreya: I mean, didn't have masses of choice. I had Cambridge and Edinburgh, so I was very glad to have two offers because, I mean, it's just so tough, like, honestly, it's an absolute minefield. I picked Cambridge. Yeah, I mean, I have to say it's Cambridge, right? It's a unique experience. a lot of people get to experience it. The college system and also, like, I'm from London. I didn't want to study at the Royal vet College. I didn't want to be in London because it's not really my place. But... Yeah, deciding between Edinburgh and Cambridge, weather was part of it, the distance, the logistics. ⁓ And yeah, probably just the fact it was Cambridge, ⁓ Usha: Yeah. Actually, question about the... just go back to the conferences, do you have a highlight from any of the conferences that you've been to? Shreya: ⁓ Yeah, definitely the people. mean, you're there for a week or so and I've taken away friends from it. I saw some of them, like literally over the weekend. So it's, I think it's more that reinforcement and it completely has changed my entire trajectory of my entire life having had that opportunity, which is why I was so devastated. I wasn't able to go again because you just have no idea what opportunities you're going to end up with, who you're going to meet, what's going to come of that. And ⁓ I mean, I now work for another NGO as well, a veterinary one. And that is only because I went to that first cop that I was at. I was in a side event that was about agriculture and sustainable food systems transition. And I didn't agree with a lot of what was being said or I had questions. So I asked one of those questions and I introduced myself as a vet student and the girl next to me ⁓ at the end, the woman, I thought she was an adult, but she was like, my God, I'm a vet student, I'm graduating from Akaro University in Uganda. And so she was another key person. Like we never managed to meet up in person. But she said, look, I'm representing this charity. Like you should, you should have a look into it. And so I was at complete capacity that year because I was running the climate society. But when I realized I was going to pass that on to someone else, I in touch with them and I said, look, I'm going to have ⁓ freeing out of my schedule. And I would love to like work with you. And the who runs that is Usha: Okay. you Shreya: fantastic. She's such a wonderful human being and she immediately was just had faith in me just because of the fact that I'd reached out to him. She was like, I'm going to put you on our core team. You can join our WhatsApp. We have meetings at like 5am UK time because we're from all over the world. She's Australian. And she was like, if you want to join, join. And I haven't been able to make all these 5am meetings, but I've made like four or five. And again, you just get to see and this is like it's called the World Veterinary Environmental Alliance, W-V-E-A. Usha: Yeah. Shreya: And it's a growing NGO that is aiming to work specifically on championing climate action within the vet profession by working on things like policy, education. And so it's everything that I want, but within my own profession, which is so cool. And it's still a really small thing and it's still growing. But their ambition is huge. And again, I've now managed to meet so many more people within the vet profession working on the thing that I'm interested in. So before it was like so separate from my vet career, even though was tracking food systems policy. It did feel really separate. My whole community within climate was separate from my vet thing. again, through meeting this one ⁓ by chance ⁓ this conference, I've ended up working with another charity because of it. And I met some brilliant medics and medical students that work on this thing called the Planetary Health Report Card. And I, was in denial about having to work on vet stuff within my department because I'd struggled so much in my college and I found that so frustrating. I just didn't want to do that sort of small scale work anymore. again, It is large scale because you're influencing the education of what 500 VAT students. So it is big scale, but I just sort of got a bit in my head about it. But I did decide a few months ago that I was going to go ahead with this project and it's basically like accreditation process for a medical or healthcare related degree to do with sustainability education. And it involves, you know, a team like four to 10 students from your course. And then doing an audit of the entire curriculum from start to finish and looking at what is being covered in terms of planetary health and what isn't being covered. And I did it because I knew we would score badly. And then I knew that we could say, Hey, look, we can now, you know, improve things. And the reason I had, I guess, the license to do this in the vet department is because of the RCBS problems we'd had. And one of those points had been about sustainability education. And so I was like, Hey, I'm offering this thing. You can take all the credit and it will, you know, Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: We'll repeat it every year and hopefully the grade will go up because you'll have specific advice on how to implement changes to the curriculum. And so they let me do it. They said they'd factor it in and we've completed that now. And then there was the question of when we weren't sure if we were going to stay open and that wasn't related to the RCBS. That was related ⁓ the university, the central university and basically a land dispute, ⁓ lot of drama, but it was an idea of like, we even bother continuing? Cause it's a lot of work and ⁓ Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: you there might not be any vet school left at the end of it. But no, we thought we agreed as a team, it was important to keep going and we had enough faith in our department that it would pull through, which it did by some some small miracle. so yeah, now we're set up with that project. So yeah, I think I wouldn't have done that either had I not come across it at I don't think. So yeah, I think you just don't know what what you're going to get with these sorts of things. And those are my two biggest takeaways that I managed to work with two other. Usha: Mm hmm. Shreya: brilliant organisations directly through going to that first conference. Joy: That's really inspiring. Something I'm really curious about is like veganism. So like, what's your experience like as a vegan vet student? Cause there isn't many of them. So can you tell us a bit about that please? Shreya: Hmm. Yeah, I really struggle with it and it makes me ⁓ quite sad. think I struggle in of workplaces because I used to think when I first started about animal agriculture and stuff like, I guess this is quite a hard to answer, especially to vet students because you're looking at a cohort of people. that love animals so much that they're making a career out of it and they're putting themselves through what a lot of people would consider hell order to get this qualification to directly help animals. And think with me, it feels a lot like people want to cats and dogs or people want to farm animals a system that would be so unacceptable if you put cats and dogs into it. ⁓ And I don't view ⁓ Usha: And. Shreya: these different species as being so wildly different from each other that it's acceptable to treat one the way, like, you know what I mean? And I don't think they're so different from humans. I'm not saying that, you know, I view a caterpillar as being like equal to a human being, but I just don't think they're so unequal that it's worth setting up these systems that mass produce animals. And it's just the scale of it, I think, that really frightens me. Like every single year we are slaughtering the equivalent. Usha: you Shreya: population of land mammals as human beings that have ever walked the planet since the beginning of time. That really scares me, I think, and I think being witness to that whole system and you know, I've seen farmers that I think are excellent. I've been lucky. I've worked with brilliant and people that I really respect. I've worked with farmers that I think are doing things wrong ⁓ and I can see problems and I have seen vets not feel empowered to speak up in those situations because you really can't. because this is someone who knows what they're doing and it has been taught something through generations and it's not your place, it's a professional who is advising on medical care to then say, actually, I don't think you should move your cow that way or I don't think you should raise your voice that way. Like it's just not a conversation that you can feasibly have. so I really struggle with the idea of working within that system in order to better animal welfare because if at its core you look at dairy and it involves separating a mother and a calf. Usha: Okay. Okay. Shreya: and potentially slaughtering that calf just because it's a male or, you know, burying it and fattening up for fat. Even if that animal has the best life. And again, I've done a lot of beef practice over my Easter break and I've seen genuinely happy cows. Like they are happy, they're outdoors and it's brilliant, but their life is cut short at 18 months or two years old when they could live to 25. Like these things just don't sit right in my head when I compare it to a human being or like... when I've seen pig practice, like just imagining a human woman in a farrowing crate like that, or imagining a human woman in a dairy system and having that happen. Like, I just don't think they're different enough from us to justify it. But then I'm surrounded by people that know the whole system, that have participated in the whole system. We've all done things that we feel are unethical, that we didn't agree with, that have traumatized us, you know, especially if you've had to see pig practice like a lot of us at Cambridge have. Usha: . Shreya: And we still choose to support those industries either by going in and working for them. And again, I do believe you can do a brilliant job as a farm vet. Like I've seen some amazing practice. do believe it. just personally can't. It would be so bad for my mental health. But I just ⁓ understand supporting those systems when I've it and I've participated. Yeah. I hope that makes sense and isn't too judgmental. It's not trying to be, it's just in my head. I can't rationalize but Usha: and Okay. Shreya: everybody around me can, despite having the same values in terms of like loving animals or loving pets, I don't know what it is. And I can't explain it. really can't. Because I used to think if everyone around me saw the same thing that I had seen and had been to a slaughterhouse and knew what that involved, it would make different choices. But I'm surrounded by people that are A, motivated to change, and also B, have seen it all and participated in it all and haven't changed. So then I don't really know where that leaves society. I don't know. Usha: You Yeah, that is hard because these systems have been around for so long. ⁓ I guess... Well, no, of course. Yeah. Shreya: But lots of things have been around for a long time and we still don't support them, you know. It's just, I get what you're saying though. It's livelihoods too and it's culture too. And I also think the solutions for England or the global north are very different from the global south. Like I wouldn't go to a country where already a lot of people are suffering from malnutrition and where the protein they're producing is being exported elsewhere or sold to other people within that country. Like I don't think it's appropriate to talk about this sort of thing with them, but I don't know, in Usha: Mm-hmm. Shreya: England it... It does seem doable to me, so I don't. Usha: Yeah. I just meant in the sense that like, it's hard to make ⁓ something like that, that's, you know, so huge. ⁓ Do you think that you've noticed any shifts in like attitudes towards that? And around food systems and animal welfare in general? Shreya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I would say I'm probably not old enough to know what it was like. I think it's so accessible to have that sort of diet in England now. And again, I know it's not for everyone and everyone's bodies react differently to different things, but in England, I think it ⁓ accessible. More people are trying it. I've also seen people try it for a bit and then revert completely back. Within the vet profession, I have no idea. Most of the practices that I've been to, I don't know, you see people kind of joking about like their chicken sandwich or their beef for lunch. And I'm just like, I just, don't get it. Or refusing to treat pigeons. Like, I don't understand it. You couldn't do that with people. You couldn't pick and choose your patients. I don't know. So I, I don't know. I've been lucky to work in one practice where like two of the vets and like four of the nurses were vegan. And like, I felt so at home. It was brilliant. They loved pigeons and it was, it was amazing. But like I... Usha: Meh. Yeah. Shreya: I don't know that I've seen much change. think a lot of people in my year now don't eat pigs because of seeing pig practice. I honestly thought seeing all the worm eggs and cysts in this little house would convert more people, but people don't seem to care. So I don't know. No, I don't think I've seen much change at all. Usha: Yes. Joy: Yeah, I mean it's kind of sad to hear but maybe like it'll be gradual and a slow process and hopefully we will see progress like that in the future. are you ready for a quick fire round? Shreya: Yeah, sure. Joy: Okay, what's one policy term you're tired of explaining? Shreya: Hmm. god. I mean, all of them. I don't think anyone knows any of them. ⁓ that's that's hard. So I've never had to explain this but if you use the word should or shall those mean two different things like should suggests that a country should do something in theory but they're not bound to and if they shall do something it means that they are legally bound to do that thing. That's stupid right because the tiny ⁓ change a letter in a word Joy: Okay. Yeah. Shreya: dictates whether something is legally binding or not. Usha: Mm. ⁓ Joy: That's interesting to hear. Usha: Yeah, definitely did not know that one. But what's like your favorite country that you visited through your work? Shreya: Yeah. ⁓ Belize. Yeah, I think it's a beautiful country, beautiful people. ⁓ worked with Manatees for a bit there and they make me very happy. ⁓ Usha: you Joy: What's the most unrealistic eco trend you've seen online? Shreya: I'm realistic. I'm not sure about unrealistic, but I do think the diet one is just so realistic. And I think this whole thing about AI and people refusing to use it because of like environmental reasons, like I don't use a lot of AI. I don't think it's good for like human creativity and like freedom of thought and stuff. Like I think it's going to make us all a lot dumber or something. I'm not that educated on it, but I do think the environmental impacts of it are pretty minimal when you compare it to like watching Netflix for an hour or just using Google for a prolonged period of time. Usha: Mm. Shreya: And especially when you look at eating meat, again, like I wouldn't eat meat even if it was environmentally destructive to eat it. But still just think it's one of those things where like not using AI, I mean, it's an easy thing to do because you weren't doing it anyways, but to become like a vigilante about it is bit silly because it's just not that destructive. I mean, it is, but there's just so much more that's a problem. Like I think you've got to pick your battles a little bit. Usha: What is one thing every vet student should learn before graduating? Shreya: Hmm. I would say about, about the climate crisis. just, I just think you've got to realize the world that you're going into is going to look so different to what people think. And if, if change doesn't start happening, we're going to start seeing some pretty shocking things. A lot of parts of the world already are. And I think in England, especially, we are so privileged to be hidden from it and so privileged that the worst we have is that summer comes a bit early and we maybe have some blue tongue and stuff. I just think. It's people aren't realizing in the UK what is happening elsewhere and the scale of it. Joy: What's your favorite animal and why? Shreya: This is good one. Definitely wild dogs like the painted wild dogs. I've seen them before and I knew about this and when I have seen it, altruistic behaviour. They will feed like sick ones, young ones, old members of the pack first. So you see quite a lot of like disabled animals, animals that might have broken their leg and it's healed wrong so they've got like a shriveled leg but they're the one eating first. think that's lovely. Usha: ⁓ That's cool. What's most niche topic that you could talk about forever? Shreya: I think aging in octopuses. Usha: ⁓ I'm expecting that. Joy: Wow, I did not expect that. Shreya: Obsessed. I love them. They're so cool. Joy: been more stressful exams or international conferences? Shreya: exams or not being able to go to international conferences at the same time as exams. Yeah, I think probably just Cambridge, not even exams, just just Cambridge University. ⁓ Usha: You ⁓ Joy: That's funny. Usha: If you could make one sustainability policy happen overnight, what would it be? Shreya: I think it would be related to a circular economy and it would very ⁓ but charging appropriately for different kinds of food. So subsidising locally produced protein sources like pulses, beans, we don't have a lot of that in the UK. But charging appropriately for that and then charging more for things that we're importing. I don't think we should be able to eat anything we want at any time of year. ⁓ I also recognise that transport costs aren't a big environmental contributor compared to animal products on our doorstep. Usha: Mm. Shreya: So I think charging appropriately and I also think farmers are massively underpaid for all the work they do. The fact that you can buy a litre of milk or a pint of milk for less than it costs that farmer to produce it. The fact they're relying on subsidies. Like it's a bit like smallies owners having to struggle to explain the price of medical care because of the NHS and the fact we don't pay directly for it. I think people really haven't got an appreciation for the work that goes into producing that product. And if more money was going back into farms, then demand would decrease because it would be more expensive. So you'd use it more as a luxury. More money could go into looking after fewer animals per farm. think paying appropriately for what you're eating would change things massively. And we're in an era where we're paying the least proportion of our income for food as we ever have before, ever in the UK at least. So I don't know, it's not popular. And then my weekly bill would go up too in terms of food, but I do think we're really taking our food for granted, all of our food, plants included. Usha: Any. Joy: Thank you so much Ray, that's the end of our quick fire round. Shreya: It's Joy: Perfect, thank you so much. Shreya: years ago, probably six, seven years ago. But Joy: you Shreya: Children, all of you. god. Usha: Brain-rotted students. Shreya: Literally. Delete TikTok, that's the only advice I'll give anyone. It's so bad for you. Joy: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Usha: To learn more about animal aspirations and the work we do, visit AnimalAspirations.com. Joy: And don't forget to follow the podcast so you don't miss out on future episodes. Educate, inspire, diversify. Usha: educate, inspire, diversify.