Sahil Laul: And I think it was my birthday. Ozzy knocks on the door and he goes, when is your birthday? And Ozzy goes, it is a card. He goes, open the card. said, will. Open the card. said, I'll open the card. He goes, open the f***ing card. I said, I will. I open the card. goes, read it, read it, read it. And then I opened it up and said, happy birthday you old fart. And all of sudden Ozzy went laughing into hysterics. It was like the funniest thing. You old fart's the funniest thing you'd ever heard. And turned around and walked out the door. As you walked out the door you turn around and go, ⁓ by the way you got the gig if you want it. Missing eyebrows, birthday cards from Ozzy Osbourne, a legendary Led Zeppelin stage coat, what do these things have in common? They're all part of an unforgettable lesson in life, art and rock and roll. And it's coming up right now. Welcome to Count's Culture, a late night podcast about all things cool. I'm Danny the Count Coker. This show is for anyone who lives for loud guitars, fast cars, dirty bikes, hard laughs, and stories that hit you right in the chest. It doesn't matter who you are, where you came from, or what you believe in. Here, none of that matters. From this moment on, you're home. And from here on out, you're part of the Count's Culture family. I'm bringing you no filter conversations about passion, purpose, and the roads that left a mark. Thanks for riding with us here tonight. Now, as you know, in every episode I'm joined by one of my members of Count's Customs team, my brother in life and partner in music, Stoney Curtis is here with me once again. My brother, what is happening? Man, always a pleasure to be here. We got another great episode, man. Brother, we really do. We've been so fortunate here on Count's Culture to have some really cool people. And you're with me on these music shows, these music-oriented shows, and we get to talk to some cool people and some cool stories. But tonight, I mean, we got a cat that has an amazing career. Absolutely. Done so many things. He's really kind of a crossover guest too, because not only is he music, he is cars and he is bikes as well. Which is, you people are gonna find, you're gonna find this out, you're gonna discover this about him. But on top of it all, he's a dear friend, he's a dear brother. Yeah, he's a dear friend, he is, you know, a brother of ours here in Vegas. And ⁓ there's so many layers to him, I'm really looking forward to... learning more, know. He's one of those guys that every time we have dinner with him or anything, we learn a little bit more. So this is gonna be great. I know, I know. It's gonna be a good one. And he's such an intellect. That's so funny, I mean, you know, to think that we would hang out with him anyway. just being British makes you, with the accent, makes you at least 15 % smarter. He sounds smarter, no matter what he says. But he can back it up, that's the great thing about him too. So this is gonna be a good one, man. You know, another cool thing about Phil is, you know, he's a biker and I love that, which frankly reminds me that we're supposed to be getting in the wind here. And I know it's my fault. Yeah, well, and my own too. ⁓ That's true, I'll it on you. Yeah, blame it on me, it's fine. It's fine, but yeah, same thing. We need to get on the bikes, man. Big time. ⁓ It's a good stress relief. Right. And I think that ⁓ lately, you and I both, we've just been wrapped up in everything that's going on with ⁓ our... your business, the studio, the band. We gotta take some time once in a while to just get out and ⁓ decompress a little I haven't been in the wind ⁓ enough. I used to ride all the time. And I haven't been out enough. And I'm really bummed that I haven't because on the rare occasion that I do, like, you know, we go to Sturgis because we play the full throttle up there, the band, we go up there and we play. ⁓ That seems to be like one of the rare times that I get to ride anymore. We do the thing all through the Black Hills. It's just awesome. And then when I'm riding up there, I'm thinking to myself, why am I not doing it at home every week? So. Well, too, it's hard out here, especially over the past few years. There's so much construction going on. There's so many new people here. The city has expanded. We need a time when we can just. get out of here, get out of town a little bit, go riding. So hopefully that happens soon. I used to ride back and forth to work. I won't ride in town anymore. Yeah, I used to ride my bike constantly. Yeah, the streets are a mess. The traffic is a disaster. Nobody knows how to drive anymore here. you know, yeah, it's one of those get up early on a Sunday, gather ⁓ a group of us. that's because we do have quite the crew that wants to go riding. mean, Christian Brady. got Frankie Perez. TPF. Yeah, Farrell wants to get in the way. Ginger Fish. Ginger Fish, Phil Sousan is always going to go right. mean, we've got to get out. We got to get in the way. It's just good for us. It's a decompression. It's clear the head. And it's we do. We ride motorcycles. Big time, man. I'm embarrassed about that. I'll get over it. I'm going to get over it. Yeah, we will. We'll get out there. All right. Good, good, good. Well, we're going to have a great show tonight. I can tell you that because in just a minute. Yep. We got a musician who's earned every note. ⁓ He's awesome, man. Decades on the road. ⁓ Biggest bands, frankly, the biggest bands on earth. No kidding. No filter, no bias. Just the scars, the lessons, and the music that survived it all. This is going to be big. This is. And played with legends. Big time. I mean, outside of the Ozzy thing, know... ⁓ know, Billy Idol's a big thing too. Big time. Billy Idol's one of the original punkers. Big time, are you kidding me? I think a lot of people forget that. They think, ⁓ Rebel Yell. But he had a whole punk thing before that too. So yeah, what a riot he's been on, man. It's going to be fun to talk about it for sure. Well, no kidding. Phil Sousan is coming up next, you guys. And frankly, this one is going to go deep. There are few causes more important to me than camp freedom. Camp freedom isn't about what someone's lost. It's about what's still possible. We give disabled veterans, first responders, and Gold Star families something powerful. Time outdoors, shoulder to shoulder, fishing, hunting, riding, away from hospitals and stereotypes. Out here, it's not therapy, it's camaraderie. If you're looking to support something real, monthly giving, sponsoring land, or just learning more, Camp Freedom is changing lives one acre at a time. Head to CampFreedomPA.org to show your support. Tonight's guest is a bona fide rock and roll craftsman, a bassist, songwriter, producer, one of the sharpest musical minds of the last four decades. He's played with Ozzy Osbourne, Billy Idol, Vince Neil, Jimmy Page, Edgar Winter, Steve Lukather. Johnny Halliday, and half the guitar heroes this planet has ever produced. He wrote Shot in the Dark, one of the most enduring songs in the Ozzy catalog. He's toured the world, filled stadiums, recorded iconic albums, and helped shape the sound of modern hard rock. He's also an artist, a craftsman, a thinker. a photographer, a businessman, and one of the most fascinating storytellers you could ever hope to have a conversation with and a brother. He's a true legend and a cherished friend, the one, the only, Mr. Phil Sousan. Wow. Thank you very much. Can you believe that? Can you believe that? Dude, it's... I think there's nothing else to say then, really. Thank you, good night. Thank you very much for such a beautiful introduction. you. Well, it's all true. And especially that last part about you being my dear friend and my brother. Absolutely. It's the truth, man. We have become friends over the years. ⁓ We've been... blessed to hang out together in all kinds of situations. ⁓ yeah, man, we have a ton in common. Absolutely. Except, know, never, I knew Ozzy, but I never played with Ozzy, and I never played with Billy. ⁓ I never played with, ⁓ well, any of those guys. Anyways. ⁓ my gosh, so ⁓ let me ask you question, I gotta know. What were you listening to on the way over here in that beautiful Jaguar of yours? I'm assuming you drove the Jag. Yeah. Okay. What were you listening to? gotta know. Some voicemail messages. Did you have them cranked? It wasn't music, I'm afraid. No, I wasn't listening to music. You know, most of my music listening is done in the gym these days. Yeah? Because that's the one place where I can really listen to stuff and I'm not being disturbed. you know, when you're... when you're back at the house or in the studio, you're preoccupied with whatever it is that you're doing. And that's not really listening time. Gosh, when I was younger, mean, yeah, would sit down and sit down and put records on and just do nothing and just focus in and listen to those records. But today it's all changed. I mean, there's all this social media nonsense. There's all this stuff that really takes up an awful lot of time. There's just not those moments, those moments just don't exist when you're just sitting there thinking, hmm, okay, let me do something for myself. And it's like, okay, text messages, phone calls, social media posts, you know, this is a distracted society. Yeah, right, right. Well, you must listen to a lot of music, because if you do in the gym, you're an incredible street man. I try to, I mean, I look forward to it. I've been at, since I was 15, I think I go to the gym four days a week, sometimes five. And if I don't, then it's something I really miss. It sort of adds some structure to the day. ⁓ We live in a business in which you can do everything right, yet the outcome is never certain. When you're fixing cars or fixing engines or whatever, if you do certain things correctly, the engine will work. In music, you can do everything right and the outcome will never be certain. What happens is it leaves you in this of vague, floating mental state. And if you can have something that anchors you down regularly, some kind of ⁓ routine that you do, I think emotionally and psychologically it's very, very healthy. And it helps with the creative side. I got you, bro. So that's the thought process behind it. Right, right. Right, okay, well, know, many people don't know that you're an avid car and bike guy. You and I would talk about this a lot. You've talked about the workshop, kind like being a refuge, a place you disappear to. When life or the industry gets heavy, what is it about working on old motorcycles, because I know that, with your hands covered in the grease and the dirt that resets you in a way that music can't or doesn't or hasn't? I think I just, what I mentioned earlier, that if you do everything right, That's something which is very gratifying and it's very cathartic knowing that when everything else is just in limbo and is in this kind of ⁓ vapor state around you that sometimes you need to do something for your psyche that distracts you that you can accomplish, that you do everything right and walk away and say, that works. And you really got a thing for the vintage bikes. I do have. ⁓ a ⁓ condition, it's a psychological condition called dismantle-mania, where what happens is I'm obsessed with taking things apart to see how they work and then putting them back together again. Grandpa was a ⁓ watchmaker. ⁓ My grandfather. ⁓ You he taught me, he said, you know, if a human being built it, a human being can repair it and chances are a human being can improve on it. And so I sort of went. through life with that adage, if something breaks, the first thing I do is take it apart. It could be a washing machine, it could be a Walkman, remember those things? With the tape in them. Remember them, I still use mine. You have a flip phone, of course. Exactly. Or music equipment. Electronics, I know quite a bit about electronics as well, so I can fix 90 % of the problems, and if all else fails, then I read the instructions. This is a true statement here ⁓ at Count's Customs at the shop. I've got several different shop areas and ⁓ we work on amazing projects and vehicles and stuff for people all over the country, all over the world and it's fantastic. ⁓ And I have such strict rules as to who is allowed in any given part of my buildings, in my facility at any time. And there are parts that are open to the public to come enjoy. And then there's strictly counts, customs people in the other building. Phil Sussan is the only person that I have opened the shop to and say, roll your stuff in, here's a lift, here's a toolbox. I'll see you later. I feel very honored for that. It's the truth, man. It's the truth. Phil Wrench is on his own stuff and he's fantastic. But yeah, man, you're good. You're good at what you do. Wow, thank you. Absolutely. Coming from you, I'll take that very much as a compliment, Well, it's true. It really is. Before, because we're going to dig deep into some stuff with you, but before we do that, we'd like to do something fun on Count's Culture podcast here. And it's called Ask Me Anything. So this is a chance to flip the script. You get to ask me anything. can be, man, can be music, can be cars, bikes, Vegas, whatever, whatever. And I'm going to do my best to try not to dodge the question. Okay. Do you have a... Mechanical smoke machine generator. I do you do I do I borrow. Yeah. Oh cool. Thanks Absolutely, I've got that we can find vacuum leaks we can find what yeah, that's why I need to do it so Don't anybody go anywhere we're gonna take a break more with my brother Phil Sasan right after this Steven Tyler started Janie's Fund for a simple but powerful reason, to help girls heal and move forward after trauma. I've been honored to support and work with Janie's Fund over the years. This is about giving young women access to counseling, education, stability, and the confidence to reclaim their future. Janie's Fund is built on compassion, community, and real impact because every girl deserves the chance to stand strong, learn more, or get involved. at JaniesFun.org and help change a life today. Let's go back. Before the tours, before Ozzy, before the fame, what kind of kid were you growing up? In London, okay, what neighborhood were you in? And what was the arts and music scene like there for you growing up? Man, there's an awful lot of information in that question. Well, hey man, give me a shot. Yeah, I know it's a great question because I think that's ⁓ something that is, that I'm proud to and pleased to share with people. Amen. Because it was an incredible experience. I really, really enjoyed my childhood. Good. You know, it makes me sad when I see people or talk to people that said that they didn't enjoy their childhoods or whatever. It wasn't easy. I mean, everyone has problems. I was focused on the great things. So starting out, was born in Maidavale, which is Paddington. And Maidavale is a street which is parallel to Abbey Road. ⁓ Not a stone's throw from the studio of the same name. Got it. And ⁓ so that was my environment growing up. We didn't have much money or anything. We were in an apartment. And London was very cold and very gray and very foggy and misty all the time. I think in the 60s there was still smog. And smog used to kill people. It was really bad. know, generally speaking, most kids were locked in most of their childhood, staring out the windows and fogging the glass as you were staring out and watching the buses go past. Gotcha. And by that nature, you found other things to do. And for me, I mean, I just I was just fascinated by everything, anything and everything. So I was a complete nerd. I was interested in fascinated by chemistry. I had a chemistry set when I was, I think, six or seven years old. Yeah. And they wouldn't dare sell a chemistry set today. ⁓ are you kidding me? You know, there's chemicals in there that you could, you know, make explosives with. We have to put warnings on Tide to not eat it. So, yeah, you know, people have gone down the dirt path. So, yeah, when you have to start doing that, imagine a chemistry set today. Yeah, you're kidding. They put warnings on sugar. Right. Not to eat it. Yeah. So it's, yeah, everything. And that was something which I got fascinated with. I also had this weird thing which was, I never really slept that much. Maybe four hours a night. So when I'd go to bed, I would just lie there, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12, I don't know, fall asleep. Four o'clock in the morning, boom. And my parents put a little nightlight in that I could turn on and then I'd just read. But I didn't read. so much novels, I was always reading like, how it works books, know? Stuff like that. Cars and engines and chemistry, electronics and just, I was a nerd, you know? And ⁓ alongside this, was just fascinated with music. Yeah. When you were, ⁓ you got an acoustic guitar on your third birthday, on your third ⁓ birthday. Yeah. Change the course of your life. Do you remember, what do you remember that? Exploring that instrument at such a young age, you remember any of that? Yeah, I remember things very, very back, very far back. I think my earliest recollection was when I was probably less than two years old. Jeez. And it was weird stuff, being with my parents and stuff. But I do remember at two years and some being given a little record player. ⁓ wow. And they would put records on that had nursery rhymes on them and I would sit in front and sing along to them. Really? And ⁓ some were in French because my mom spoke French so my first language was French. Yeah. So I had all this stuff and then also I don't know why one of my dad's friends came and bought me all these American kids songs. Okay. I wanna be a lifeguard. And so there's all this stuff that was on there as well. Maybe that's where my empathy for America sort of first developed. But that's what I did at the beginning, is sing along to records. And then we had my mom's cousins who lived in France, these two guys. ⁓ They both were musicians. And one day they came over and said, here, we have bought you a guitar. It was a little miniature guitar. It a real guitar, like a wooden guitar. But it was just small. Nothing, but looked at it. It's like, OK. Cool. But that wasn't the first instrument I played. You know, I childhood instruments, melodicas, recorders. Right, right, right. And then in primary school, of course, they had a recorder ensemble where you could come in and you could learn to play the first instruments. The flute-o-phones. Yeah, those in school too. I don't know if they still do that. In music class, you get a recorder, kind of learn notes and how to put it together and stuff. I don't know if they still do that for kids anymore. It'd be interesting to know. You know, so many of the good programs get cut. At what point, let me ask you this question, at what point did the music on those records stop being in the background and they actually felt like this is something that I'm drawn to? Eight years old, nine years old probably. I think that one of the coolest things that you could have growing up that you would hope that you get for your birthday was a little AM radio, portable radios. and they came in bright colors, because this is in the 60s, so was orange or bright green or whatever it was, and they were about yay big and they had a tune and a volume on them and a really thin white earpiece that came with it. And this became your obsession. So if you wanted to hear something, you kind of had to put Radio One or Radio Two, not Radio Two, that was for older people, Radio One on and just wait for that favorite song to come around. There was no other way to... to call it up. And I started getting into a lot of different music around that time, British blues music, glam rock of course. There was Mark Boland, was David Bowie, was T-Rex, there was all of that stuff. You toured all over Europe with a post-punk band called Terminal Rescue. How old were you at this point and how surreal was this part of your life, Terminal Rescue? This was the first band that... first professional band that I was in, meaning to say not high school band. All the high school bands had got formed while I was at school studying ⁓ sciences and stuff, and they went off to do other things. Mark Bedford was in class with me, Mark Bedford was a bass player as well, and he was in Madness, and so that was a band that got formed at my school. And so I'd sort of missed the boat on all of those school bands. My band's at school with my friends who were all doing different things as well. One guy was doing this, one guy was doing drama, one guy was... But we had a band. But it was for fun. Now all of a sudden I realized that's what I wanted to do. Those opportunities were no longer present. So I had to go and find bands. So I started putting my name in the Melody Maker. Looking for bands and Terminal Rescue was the one that came up. Tell us about it. It was a three-piece band an American drummer whose name I can't remember Tony Tony was the singer guitar player kind of like the jam. Yeah Yeah, a little bit like the jam three piece. He sang a very high-energy Kind of very easy simple songs right between the eyes, you know, and we went out we played we did some shows We had a lot of fun. Yeah, Tony owned a rehearsal studios ⁓ Called terminal studios funny enough and then that band didn't work out the I don't know something I guess it just didn't work out and so it fell apart and another band came along, another bank. And then I started advertising and going to auditions and I became the audition king. Well, your early career was a lot of persistence. You were completely persistent. You did a lot of sessions. There were bands. It was the whole London scene. Take us from the time from Terminal Rescue to the point where you got a life-changing phone call. from Jimmy Page. Yeah, so quite a lot of stuff happened between those two things. After Terminal Rescue, I started auditioning heavily. I put my ad in the back of the Melody Maker. I don't know what it said, bass player looking for a gig or something. Braw, looking for a And so I started going to a lot of auditions. And at first when you go to auditions, you're kind of a little nervous. Gosh, I hope I get the gig, you know? And then I started, I sort of turned it around. I started finding that I was getting these auditions. ⁓ That might have been the first time, going back to what you were asking me before, that I might have had the sense that I was actually doing okay with this. I was doing something that was kind of cool. Because I started getting a lot of these gigs. And then I sort of turned the tables on it. Instead of me auditioning, I was auditioning the bands. So I wanted to find the right band. That's a better feeling, ain't it? It is, because it puts you in a different ⁓ frame of mind. You're not quite as ⁓ anxious or nervous. And you realize that it's more important to find the right situation than just to find a situation. And that's something that continues. to this very day, I mean I'm always trying to find the right solution to something rather than a solution to something. And sometimes the right solution can take a long time, right? Yes. So, I'm sort trying to analyze this, it actually makes good sense. So, as I was going around doing all these auditions, it's funny sometimes I'd audition for the same band twice. ⁓ And I'd come in the door and I'd go, ⁓ I didn't really want play with this band. Hey, yeah, yeah, we play, yeah. Well, do you wanna play? Okay, yeah, I'll let you know. Yeah. So, and then I got a call from, ⁓ somebody called me up and said, we're looking for a bass player for my new band. ⁓ If you're interested, come down to this rehearsal room and ask for Simon. And I said, ⁓ okay. And then ⁓ Simon who? He said, Kirk, Simon Kirk. And I went, okay. And I was a big free fan. Right. Back then. Right. So Free was over. Yeah. Now we're in too bad company, but I knew that Simon Kirk was the drummer in Free. Right. So I went, oh my gosh, what's going on? So I went down to this rehearsal. It's a funny rehearsal because I walked in and as I walked in the door opened and a guy bumped into me leaving out, another bass player. And that was Bob Daisley. So he would come down to have a play with him and ultimately it worked out with me. That was my first run in with somebody who was later to become a dear friend. Wow. And a big, big influence, of course, Bob. Amazing bass player. Right. And of course, Bob was the architect of much of that early Ozzy Osbourne with Randy Rhoades. Bob wrote the songs with Randy in the band, Absolutely. The lyricist, for sure. Right. Here's where all these circles start to sort of cross over. Right. And you realize that once... Once I walked into this room and there was Simon and who produced the album was McRalphs, was a guitar player in Bad Company, who prior to that had been in Mark the Hoople. It's like a realization, you're kind of playing in a whole different ballpark right now. You know, it's like a closed shop, it's like a tight circle of this high echelon of music that you're always trying to break into. And once you sort of peek your head in the door, you realize that everyone is kind of sort of connected in a certain way. So I got this gig and the band, because of Simon's ⁓ affiliation with Bad Company, was managed by Peter Grant. And we did a record on Swan Song Records. I think it was the last record on Swan Song that was made. Make a long story short, the band did not work out eventually after that album. ⁓ I'd become very good friends with all the Swan Songs. Yeah. And particularly Phil Carlo, was Bad Company's tour manager with Clive Colson. And then afterwards had been Led Zeppelin's tour manager after Richard Cole for the last year or two or whatever. And Phil and I became really good friends. And one day he called me up and he said, yeah, Jimmy wants to put a band together. He hadn't been playing for a while. and he knows you're a big fan of his, would you want to come down and have a play? And I thought, let me think about this. No, no, I don't think so. I was like, bruh. I was like, bruh. Yo, bruh. Is he the surf band? No, are you kidding? was like, Zeppelin had become a huge, huge influence on me. Oh, big time. More than anyone else other than, well, David Bowie and Led Zeppelin, I were the big influences. Yeah, of course I went down to No-Miss Studio, a very famous studio in London, walked in through the doors and sat there and I had never met Jimmy. Right. We had recorded the album at his studio, at the Seoul Studios, and he had been threatening to come down to say hi and every time never showed up. So finally these other guys would go to the pub and I would sit around in case Jimmy showed up. They said, he's not going to show up. they're fine, okay, so I went to this pub this one day and came back. Peter Grant called the next day and said, Jimmy came down last night to see you guys, no one was there. Of course, of course, good timing. So anyway, so yes, of course, I go into this rehearsal room and it's Chris Slade, myself, Phil Carlo, and we waited and waited and Jimmy came in at around three or four o'clock in the afternoon. And what was that like for you at that time? Just at that moment, Jimmy Page walks in the room. Completely starstruck. Right. I mean, I was just like, oh my gosh. Right, because how old are you at this time? Oh, 22. Yeah. I was completely starstruck. Oh, yeah. Because I had so much of a, he'd been such a big influence on me. Yeah. And we picked up some instruments. There was all these guitars lying around and he said, He hadn't played, as I said, since the passing of John Barnum. hadn't really, he kind of become a little bit reclusive, I suppose. And was looking to kind of just get back into playing. Just want to have some fun. And so we started having some fun. We started jamming. I'll always remember a very dear story. ⁓ We were very nervous, both myself and Chris. We really wanted this to work. and we weren't sure what we were going to do. And we were sort of playing and Jimmy was trying to show us this riff and it had a weird timing and he was kind of trying to explain the timing and well, we wanted to get it, we weren't sure if we were getting it. I was looking at Chris, Chris was looking at me, I was sweating and then all of a sudden Jimmy said, hang on a second. He said, I can tell that you're very nervous. You seem very nervous. You know, I haven't played for a while here. So I just want you to know that as nervous as you are about playing, I'm just as nervous as well. And with that, it kind of broke the ice. And all of a sudden we just started having fun. We played some classic tracks. We played some Johnny Burnett tracks, know, Try and Keep The Rolling, know, stuff like that, which I loved. I had fallen in love with in my, the ages between 15 and 17 or 18, I'd fallen in love with. 1950s Americana rock and roll, rockabilly. my gosh, that's still on my phone. mean, that's one of my top 10 favorite albums, always has been. And so I had an incredible background with early Elvis, Sun Session Elvis, all of that stuff. All of those rockabilly tracks. And Jimmy's favorite guitar player had been Scotty Moore. So I could do a Bill Black if he could do Scotty Moore. So we started playing all this rock and roll stuff. snowballed we just started having fun just playing all of these tracks nice nice and that's what we did for and days turned into weeks and weeks turned into even months we would get together and we'd go and jam we'd play and we'd see what you know just having fun that's huge that's how that happened so we're gonna take a little bit of a break from the life story because there's there's so much more to to talk to you about and we're gonna get to that. we do a segment here on Count's Culture and it's called What's in the Garage? But we're gonna change it up today. Because I wanna mix it up for you and we're gonna call it What's in the Case? What's in the Case? Instead. So yeah, this is, well you know, you because you carry an axe around all the time. It's our You're gonna have a case. So it doesn't have to be a a bag. Okay, fine. What's in the bag? How's that? Should we go with that? What's in the bag? What's in the box? What's in the box? in We got Gwyneth Paltrow's head is in the, no, that was... Yeah, what's in the bag? Okay. If you could put one item from your fantastic, magnificent, fabulous career in a fancy British bag, it could be an iconic base, a piece of tour memorabilia. Personal artifact that symbolizes a vindicating moment in your life anything What would it be now don't don't tell us? ⁓ Describe it and Stoney and I are gonna give it our best shot to see if we can't figure it out what you put in this beautiful fancy British bag But if we can't figure it out, you're gonna tell us anyways. Yeah have to be Something that helps you find the leak in a vacuum system. I'm going to guess an automotive smoker machine. Smoker machine, yes. How do I do? That's exactly it. No, seriously though, one thing that I would... I suppose this would be the thing that, God forbid that there's an earthquake or something and you have to leave the house. Right. do you... You know, and it's not obviously someone or a pet or an animal or a person. So it's something. It's an item. An item. Okay. ⁓ Is it heavy? Gosh, it's a really good question. And I mean that emotionally, No, I mean something that's really... Yeah, okay, I got something. Okay, describe it. But don't tell us. Describe it. It would be... ⁓ ⁓ It's made of fabric. Okay. Okay, keep going. ⁓ it would be something that is worn. I'm going with some sort of a jacket. Well, I mean, what I was thinking from the get-go was the fancy jacket he wore in the Ozzy videos, you know, the blingy jackets, the shiny jackets. Right. That's... I was thinking jacket, you were thinking, we're gonna go with the fancy... Jacket from the Aussie videos. Yeah, so it's really funny. It's really funny because you you've sort of nailed what I was thinking about because there was two choices Okay, and one of them was that okay, but that's not the one. Okay. There's another one. What is it? What is it? Yeah, I have from my time over there. I got given something It's one song really. Yeah, and I have it. It's a it's a stage coat Really? It was John Paul Jones' sage coat that he wore during the 1969, 1970 Zeppelin Tourists. You're kidding me. No. And it's one of those two things. So was thinking about the Ozzie cape. Right. Right. So we were both somewhat on track. That's cool. That's cool. And in all honesty, I would have to say that it would be an apparel thing because Phil is a fashion. You are a fashion statement. Always are. There's plenty, I would say 97 % of the time when that's not the case at all. Ask my wife, is that you going to wear that thing again? I've gotten that. You're a grown man. You're a grown man. I like to wear the Ace Freely belt buckle. Right. And once in while she'll stop. We're going out to dinner. You're a grown man. I'm not going to be seeing with you wearing that. So you got this jacket from Swanson. Yeah. Man, that's so... Unbelievable. That's really cool. That's something I've had for years and it's something which I... Something that he was wearing when they were playing or something that he wore... No. Just, you know, around town. no. Stagecoach. Wow. I would love to see that sometime. That's cool. So, yeah. We're going to take a little break, you guys. Don't go anywhere. We have more with Mr. Phil Sousan coming up right after this. We'll see you in a minute. you're a fan of this podcast, of counting cars, or of my shop Count's Customs, head over to countscustoms.shop for official gear, collectibles, and shop favorites. Or better yet, come by and see it all right here in person. The builds, the history, the vibe, it's not a showroom, it's an actual working garage. Online or in Vegas, Count's Customs is always worth the stop. Phil, let's talk about your biggest break, man. How and when does Ozzy Osbourne enter your life? Well, I was playing with Jimmy during the days and... I'm sorry, I have to giggle. I'm sorry. Sounds funny. Because this is a question about Ozzy and you start with... Well, I'm playing with Jimmy Page. This was up in the morning. This was that time. This was that time. Right. It's a magical time. I'm with you. I didn't mean to interrupt, but I had to giggle. I just looked over at Stoney and I was like, that's a great way. Just go, Phil. Just smack me. No, no, no. And what happened was I did get asked to do a TV show with somebody. It was a live TV show, which I did. And then it was broadcast and it was, I got a phone call, I got back to the house, I was going to go out, I had some friends. It was a really fun time, I went back to the apartment where I was staying and we were all going to go somewhere and the phone rings and I pick up the phone and it's a friend of mine, Lynn, who I knew Lynn for a long time, she was Sharon Osborne's secretary. And I knew Sharon ⁓ quite well as well, not quite well, but I'd known her definitely ⁓ for that reason. She's on the end of the phone and she says, here, somebody wants to talk to you. she said, hang on a second, hands over the phone. And there's this voice on the other end. Phil, just saw you on that television program, that show. It was f***ing great. I'm looking for a bass player. You want to come and meet me? Come and meet me over at Spiral's wine bar. There's a wine bar called Spiral's on Finchley Road. And so I said, uh, okay. So I put the phone down and my friends were like, who's that? And I said, Ozzy? wants to meet over at Spiral's? I said, okay, we'll go to Spiral's. There was about five or six of us. Okay, we'll head over there. So we're faffing around. 20 minutes later, the phone rings again and it's Lynn. And she goes, where the f*** are you? I said, why Ozzy's waiting for you in spirals. I said, okay, we'll head over straight away. So I went over there and sat down. He told me he was looking for a bass player. He said to me, he said, what did he say to me? He said, we're looking for a bass player. We're looking for someone to come down. We haven't found anybody. Ask me what I wanted out of life. And I said, I couldn't think of anything else. And was a little starstruck as well. So I said, Two really stupid things, fame and fortune, I think is what I said. go, well, I can handle both of those. So come down, have a play, whatever. ⁓ I knew that Randy Castillo was already playing with Ozzy. I had been friends with Randy since Randy had been playing with Leda Ford. They were living in London at the time. I was friendly with Leda Ford. I met Randy. We became lifelong best friends. He was the second person that really made me feel that I was as a bass player I was doing something that no one else could. Nice. Because one day we were playing around and he said, show me something and I started playing some Stanley Clark stuff on the bass and he was like, man you can play that stuff. And I was like, yeah, everyone should be able to, right? Yeah. He goes, ⁓ man, that's pretty cool. Yeah. So we became really good friends. That's bonded. He had got the gig with Ozzy, I knew about this already through Lin, and then cut... ⁓ about two or three months, that's when I met with Ozzy. So I went down and so I said, okay, great, I'd love to come and audition. We had a few drinks and I went home feeling quite good about myself. And the phone rings the next morning and it's Sharon and she says, here, I don't know whatever Ozzy said to you last night, I don't know what he said to you, but it's all rubbish, he was drunk and he didn't mean any of it. And I went. Okay, right, no problem. Anyway, I gotta go meet Jimmy this afternoon anyway, Right, right, right, right. That's a nice safety net. That was it? Yeah, but not. Yeah, it wasn't, because I carried on working with Jimmy and then about a couple of months later. ⁓ really, so it took that long? I think it was about a couple of months. ⁓ I went to stay with Jimmy, with Phil Carlo, Jimmy Sky, and he was in ⁓ Brighton. That's where he lived. And by this time, Phil and I were very good friends. In fact, such good friends that his daughter is my goddaughter. ⁓ nice. So I went down for the weekend. And we're in Brighton and we're walking around along the beach and walk past this shop and somebody comes out and bangs straight into me and I was like, and it's Ozzy. And he goes, what are you doing? I go, I'm staying with Phil. You know, Phil, right? And he goes, yeah. And, ⁓ because Phil Carlo, here you go again, Phil Carlo had been best friends with Bob Daisley. Okay. Bob Daisley had been the person who had been engaged in those formative years with Ozzy. Okay. So here's where all these pieces start to fit together. That's why, you know, I had met Bob, because Bob had come down because Phil had gone... I'd recommended him for that audition with Simon. ⁓ So all of this is starting to make some sense, right? So I said, I'm staying with Phil. I came down for the weekend. What are you doing here? He said, we're trying to find a bass player. How come you never came down there for the rehearsal? said, because Sharon called me and told me not to. Well, she doesn't know what she's talking about. I said, okay, well, I don't know. I'm not going to get between the two of you. You told me one thing. ⁓ Well, we're still looking for a bass player. So here's... ⁓ His tour manager at the time was Jimmy Ayres and Jimmy came up to me and said, would you come down and audition? I said, well, where are you rehearsing? The studio near Brighton. I said, I don't have a bass. Well, can you go back to London and pick up your bass and drive down? And I said, yeah. And I said, pull them aside. said, can I have a word with you? And he said, I said, I came down for the weekend here. Is this another bull- where I go up and then come back down and then get a phone call the next day saying, don't worry about it. He said, no, no, no, no, no, for sure. I said, okay, then I'll do it. I went home, he gave me a tape. said, Jimmy gave me a tape. said, there's three songs on there. See if you can, they'll probably want to play them. Came back down with a bass. And then I started playing with them for, and I played for, I must have been about a week. And then after the week, they said, okay, great. We'll let you know. And I thought that was it, and I split. And then I got a call afterwards, they'd like to play a bit more with you. It's you and another guy. So I came back down and spent another week and a half playing with them. And I think it was my birthday. And we're down there in Brighton, Ozzy knocks on the door and he goes, it's your birthday. he goes, is a card. And I go, ⁓ thank you. He goes, open the card. said, will. Open the card. said, I'll open the card. He goes, open the f***ing card. said, I will. I opened the card. goes, read it, read it, read it. And I said, okay. And I opened it up said, happy birthday, you old fart. And all of sudden Ozzy went laughing into hysterics. It was like the funniest thing. You old fart's the funniest thing you'd ever heard. Turned around, walked out the door. As he walked out the door, he turned around and goes, oh, by the way, you got the gig if you want it. And that was it. That's how I got the gig. That's cool. I was like, whoa. During those early shows like that, were there any like insane moments that just made you just go, ⁓ my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this with Ozzy? ⁓ I think the first gig that we did, which was Ulster Hall, I think in Northern Ireland. Yeah. And it was still dealing with the conflict that was going on up there. So there was tons of security all over the place. There's police, military police, this, that, the other. And I was kind of like, sort of going into a bit of a battle zone here. But as far as music went, they loved music, they were nuts. And we went into this hall and it was the first gig that I did. I mean, it was just like, wow, what's going on here? I mean, I'm going from playing clubs and small gig venues and touring Europe and stuff and touring to at most, I don't know. thousand people, two thousand people, and now we're going to start playing for five and six thousand people and when we come to America it's going to be a lot more than that. And just, actually the thing I remember most was the volume on stage, was insanely loud. This is pre-ear monitors, There's wedges over here, there's wedges over here. I mean, I literally got off that stage, was like, yeah. There's howling. ⁓ But that, was, absolutely exhausted after that first show. Really? Just exhausted. But it's a good exhaustion, isn't It's a great exhaustion. I remember sitting in hotel just like, you know, just almost ready to pass out. Phil, I'm going to fast forward a little bit. ⁓ There is an amazing song ⁓ that Ozzy... has a huge, huge, huge hit for him and is just literally a part of the fabric of rock and roll. That shot in the dark. You wrote that. Talk to me about that. Yeah, so ⁓ this was, ⁓ it was interesting because it was a song that I'd written a long time before and ⁓ we were in the studio. We rehearsed all the material on the Ultimate Sin. We were going to get ready to go and record it. And so it came time for the producer to come down. I can't remember if it was the producer or if it was the label, but they felt that there was a song missing. There was one more song that needed to be there. And so they started thinking about songs. They thought about cover songs. They mentioned a bunch of songs. Ozzy wasn't particularly keen on the cover songs, especially not what they were. coming up with. think Born to Be Wild was one of them and he was like, I love singing Born to Be What? So he wanted to do that. I thought I did a good Ozzy by the way. Your Ozzy is spot on. It's spot on. And then they turned around to us, the new guys, and said, do you guys have any songs or any material? Randy didn't really write any songs and I said, yeah, I write a lot of stuff. ⁓ I have three songs and I can play them for you if you want. ⁓ And one of them, there was a little piano in there, a little electric piano, I said I'll play it to you. And one of them was Shroud in the Dark. And they said that sounds like one we'd like to work up. So we started working up on it and they said this is gonna work, this is gonna be great. So we'll record it. Okay, so that was one of the other songs that went into the group, the bag of songs to be recorded. We recorded it, it was recorded, the whole album was recorded at the townhouse. legendary studio in London, which I don't think is there anymore. In Shepherd's Bush. ⁓ That room is very famous because that's where Phil Collins recorded all his drums in that room. stone room. So we were in the other studio. We recorded the album. Album was done, recorded, mixed, everything else. And then one day Sharon said, we're going to shoot a video for the first single and that's going to be Shot in the Dark, your song. And I went, She goes, Wow. That's gotta be an amazing feeling though to have your song become so huge with somebody like Ozzy. mean, that's gotta be, talk about feeling great. Yeah, I mean, a lot of these things, ⁓ you know, wasn't until I, you know, looked back on them. I mean, even the idea of getting the gig with Ozzy, you know, I remember going to talk with Jimmy and saying, I don't know if I want to do this or what I should do or. what to do here. And he made it pretty clear. said, look, we're not going to do anything for at least another year and a half or so. So I guess it comes down to what you want to do. If you want to go out and start playing right now, then you should probably do that. If not, we'd love to have you here. And I made my decision based upon that. And we stayed, you know, stayed friends. But just like everything else, it was just going past so fast that you really didn't get a chance to digest it. going to shoot the video, we're into LA. This is the first time that I've really gone to America. And I've heard about LA and everything about Los Angeles and everything about Hollywood. I knew so much about it because I'd swatted up on it. And now I'm here, this is a great, great time. ⁓ And we're specifically here to shoot a video, we shoot the video, we go straight back home, the video is edited, I'm seeing the video, Ozzy's watching the video, go and check this out. Kelly, who's about two years old at the time, is jumping up and down in front of the television. He goes, that's only, you know, if you've got a hit song, the kid's jumping up and down in front of it. The kid's like, it's a hit. And I said, oh my gosh, hit. And then the thing gets released as a single and now it's on the radio. And it's just surreal. Then one day, somebody came in the room, I was asleep. It was Jake, I think, came in the room. your single's charted. And it goes out and I'm like, oh, go back to sleep. And I woke up and I said, it's a pretty funny dream. I dreamt that the single had charted. And they go, no, it charted. And Jake goes, no, I came into the room to tell you it charted. I thought I'd dreamt it. It straight into the charts. Now we're doing it. video too. Yeah, it was. Now we're playing a gig. We're playing a show. And all these people are singing this lyrics and dumb, stupid. thought that went through my mind is, come these people know the lyrics? Stupid thoughts. the hell, were they printed somewhere? Of course they printed somewhere, of course it is, but that's the irrational, like, know, disbelief that you feel. yeah, it was an amazing, amazing, surreal feeling and that's... I guess that's how it happens. Let's stick with ⁓ Ozzy for just a second if I can, okay? And I wanna talk about, cause you know, I knew Ozzy this much. ⁓ I'd done some stuff with him, so I knew the guy ⁓ on a fraction of the amount that someone like you and others know, but I don't want to talk about the headline, Ozzy. I want to talk about the human, the person. What do you remember most vividly about who he really was behind the scenes, and what do you miss the most about him? I think he was the ultimate practical joker. He was like a big kid. Everything was for the benefit of a life for everybody. You just hoped that you weren't going to be the subject of the humor because he had a tendency to play practical jokes on people. he ever get you? ⁓ yeah. Yeah, he got me. Yeah, it was one of the early gigs, I think. And I remember at the end of show, I'd come back to the hotel and was wiped out. And I don't know how to had a drink. I was a vodka tonic or something. And I was just, guys, I'm I am so pooped. had to go. I have to crash. And I went to bed. And the next morning the phone rings and it's it's Ozzy, goes, are you awake? Yeah. He goes, you looked in the mirror yet? And I went, no. And then hangs up. And the phone rings again. No, he didn't say if you looked in, if you've been to the bathroom. And he goes, you been to the bathroom yet? You been to the toilet? We don't say bathroom anymore, we say toilet. You been to the toilet? And I go, no I haven't. goes, you haven't looked in the mirror. No I haven't. He hangs up again, finally calls up, calls up the third time, goes, go look in the mirror. And I go, the So I go look in the mirror and I'm like, no, what's he talking about? I'm looking really carefully, I'm going. And it appears that there's a bit of this eyebrow that has been removed. And I'm going. And all of a sudden I'm going, hang on a second. And then I called him up and I said, what are you playing at? He was just in hysterics, laughing hysterically. And so here's what happened. ⁓ My vocal and tonic had been spiked with something. ⁓ no. What Ozzy used to affectionately refer to as a doom dot, which could be a halcyon or something, a doom dot. Doom dot, okay. Yeah, this is stuff that would get you arrested today, right? Right, right, right. ⁓ So that's why I went to sleep. He obviously bribed the hotel person with skeleton key, come in there, right, with a razor, and attempted to shave off one of my eyebrows. But what had happened was that apparently my eyes had opened, I sat up, bowled upright, scared the living crap out of them, and they all left. In thinking, I remember having this dream where I thought, ⁓ my gosh, there's somebody in the room, and then I was like, ⁓ it's okay, it's only Ozzy. And I went back to sleep. ⁓ that's funny. So that's what happened. So then he told me his favorite trick, one of his favorite tricks when you're, you know, what's, we call write a passage or your, what would you call that? When somebody, initiation. uh-huh. Was to shave their eyebrow off, or worse, to strip down your head because in Ozzy's own words, the great thing about that is you can get as mad as you want, but you're still gonna have to walk around looking like a. a C with four letters after it for the next month. So that was my narrow escape from the initiation. And from that point, we'd bought these, we all had these portable deadbolts. You ever seen those? They're very, very dangerous. I wouldn't advise anybody to ever buy a portable deadbolt because if you go into a hotel room and you shut your door with a portable deadbolt, you cannot open it for love nor money from the outside, including if there's an emergency. But what you can do is ensure that somebody has not bribed somebody for a skeleton key. Right. Who's then going to come in and go to town with their ⁓ barbershop. Their razor. Amateur barbershop abilities, you know? Take us on a trip. Let's go from Ozzy to Billy Idol. What was that like? The musical partnership, what was it like? And what was your relationship with Billy like? Offstage as well because you guys you guys were were tight. ⁓ yeah, so yeah, mean I but you know when I left Ozzy I have voluntarily left Ozzy because I was not able to basically cut a deal that I was gonna be happy with moving forward Simple as that. There's a bunch of stories out there and people have their own theories and whatever garbage But that's really what it boiled down to I wanted to stick around but I couldn't cut the right deal in the interim time Billy and I quite accidentally had found ourselves in Tahiti on Bora Bora. Sounds rather fabulous, doesn't it? It does, it does. It sounds like a movie. It wasn't intended. Randy and I had gone to Bora Bora and we found ourselves on the same flight with Billy. I'd sort of known Billy from way back, years back in England. I have to go back to England for this. Okay. So I grew up in Maidavelle. Okay. Paddington, Edgeware Road. This is the nucleus of where punk music started. This is where it all began. And it all began in those years in 1973, 1974, 1975, where it was forming. And it was the London SS, was the Kilburn and the High Roads, it was the Clash, it was Generation X. That's where it all came from. That's where it all happened. And this was kind of my music growing up. When I was at school, everyone was getting into this new kind of punk thing. And at first I kind of rebelled against it because I had an affinity for classic rock, blues rock, all of this stuff. And this was sort of the antithesis of classical music, classic rock music. In fact, that was what its strength was. So I was torn. But it was hard to ignore the music of my generation. Not me to sound like the Who, but it was difficult to ignore that. And I sort of had a... a love for it because there was an insane energy in it. It was the energy of a generation and it was an energy of a music and it was an energy of dissatisfaction with the establishment. Street music. was, yeah. Everyone felt there was no opportunities. And so ⁓ I was kind of torn. was living a closet life as a sort of closet punk on the one hand and a classic rock guy on the other hand. ⁓ So I was going to some punk gigs and the energy was there. I went to a gig at the London Polytechnic one time. It was the sax pistols. Okay. I sitting on the side of the stage. Yeah. was listening to the sax pistols playing. Yeah. I mean, before they were massive, right? Right, right. There had always been this desire to try to get into this. And I met a drummer by the name of John Tao who I did some sessions with. and he really liked me and he said, yeah, I'm going to try and you into some these punk bands, because he played, he was the original drummer in Generation X. And he'd been playing with Adam and the Ants as well. He says, I'm going to get you into some of these gigs, and he just tried and he couldn't. I was about four years too late to that party, because I was four years too young. So I always had this bucket list thing of being able to play in a punk band or something. So of course, hanging out with Billy and he says he's fed up with his band and he wants to start a new band from scratch. Would I be interested? Was like, hell yeah. Absolutely. I would absolutely like to do this. So we came back. So you guys had this discussion in Bora Bora. I love it. Okay. Yeah, we were there for a while and it was sort of pie in the sky at the time. I didn't know what was going on with Ozzy. I mean, as far as I was concerned, everything was going to continue and I was like, yeah. We'll see whams. But then, know, for those reasons, one day I called him up and said, you know what? He'd actually been calling me. You think you might be interested in doing this? And I said, yeah. So I called him and said, let's do it. Went to LA. He moved to LA. And we started getting together every morning and going over some ideas. Started trying to put a band together. Is this before? The Rebel Yell and all that, or is this after? Oh no, this is after, this is Child Life. Child Life Almanzo. and did a lot of riding together, because he's a biker, you're a biker. Yeah, so I don't know that he had, this was his first foray into motorcycles, I think, at that time. So he'd been living in New York. He came out to LA, after we'd spent time in Bora Bora, I said to him, why don't you spend some time in LA, we're always there. And so we hung out in LA for a week, they had a great time, and he called me up and he said, I think we're gonna move to LA. So he moved to LA. I'm not trying to tell Billy's story because I have no rights to tell someone else's story. ⁓ I got you. But this was my recollections went. So he was based there. So I flew back out to LA and that's where we started playing together and putting a band together. And we started working on a record. And that record became Charmed Life. And as far as motorcycles, yeah, he had a... a buddy and another friend who, they got a couple of motorcycles and they said we're gonna ride Harleys. And back then, nobody rode Harleys. There was about eight people in LA that had a Harley. Right. Now after Billy, you had a little bit of a stint with somebody I've got some history with, that's Vince Neil. Yeah. And then, you ran into a rather interesting time that landed you back in the bike shop after that. Yeah. How did motorcycle save you after this? Tell me a little bit about your time with Vince and then how did you end up back in the bike shop and what was that like for you? Yes, ⁓ well, know, it's no secret that sometimes things, situations don't work out in the music business for many, many different reasons. Situations, what started out with Vince Neil was me and him putting a band together and everything was just great. And due to the unfortunate and untimely passing of his manager, ⁓ everything sort of kind of got jumbled up. Everything that had been on a clear path was turned upside down and things started going wrong. ⁓ and it turned into not a great situation. That's a tough thing to deal with when somebody basically who's running the show, the management like that, that you depend on. So I can definitely understand that. Yeah, Bruce Bird was just an amazing guy. One day here, next day gone. So ⁓ you got back in a motorcycle shop. How did the motorcycles basically kind of do good in your life at that Yeah, when that whole situation kind of fell apart, it really took a toll on me because I was really... sad about it. And I was sad about it because of my friendship with Vince. I was just bummed. And then I just stopped for a minute and went, hold on a second. So we're now 1992, right? And I'm looking back and I've been doing this since 1980. When did I join Ozzy? 1985? So from this period of seven years or whatever it was, I hadn't stopped. It had been that roller coaster ride. And I went, okay, time out. I gotta take a break here. I don't know what's going on. And I was just mentally exhausted. ⁓ If it hadn't been that, it would have been something more destructive. ⁓ I met somebody who said to me, ⁓ have a friend who fixes motorcycles. This is in LA? Yeah, and by this time the whole motorcycle thing had really taken off. And everybody, when everyone started getting motorcycles, you know, all of sudden you had these faceless people who could go down to a Harley store and for 10 grand you could walk out with an image. And all of a sudden you were somebody. No disrespect, but that's really what's going on. I know exactly what you mean. And so now everyone's riding bikes and then people are falling off bikes left, and center because they've never really ridden and their bikes are going wrong. And I'm like, I can fix that. You can? ⁓ yeah. I fixed Billy's bike or I'd fix our guy's bikes. I knew how to do that. So I was already getting a reputation as somebody who knew. how to fix these things. ⁓ So a friend of mine said, hey, do you want to meet my friend? He restores vintage motorcycles. ⁓ And it was Terry, you know Terry Nails? Yeah, a I do a blues band with Terry Nails. So Terry was a guy. Terry comes up to me one day and he goes, my friend Daniel, I just thought you want to go meet him? And I said, all right. So I went down there met him. And he said, hey, if you want to, would you want to... do something like that and I said sure. He goes, I'll tell you what, we've got a bike over there, it doesn't work. If you can fix it, you're in. And it was an old, I think it was a TR6. It was a Tiger 650 or something. ⁓ He said, fix this and you're in. Yeah, so I was trying to fix this for three or four hours, able to fix the bike and eventually I fixed it, figured out what it was. ⁓ And I said, that's what it is. ⁓ And he goes, all right. And then for the next six or seven months, I just. put music on hold and I just went in and fixed bikes. How'd that feel? Was it good for you? Cleared in hand? It was great. Very cathartic. Yeah. Absolutely. had a great time doing that. I love it. I love it. Bikes are good for you. Absolutely. I can't say enough good stuff about it. The three of us really should go riding sometime. We'd be threatening to do that for a long, long No, we do. We threaten each other constantly. Guy Webster. Guy Webster was the guy. He had one of the largest collections of motorcycles in the world. Okay. He was out in Santa Paula or Ojai. Yeah, the name is really familiar. I think he had about between 300 400 motorcycles. And these were all vintage motorcycles of historic note and would lend them to movies, lend them to museums. Daniel would restore a lot of his bikes. Guy Webster had been a photographer, a rock photographer, had taken photographs of Hendrix and people like that. But his passion was motorcycles. He took the money he made. and put it into collecting motorcycles. Bikes rule, Let's go from an Italian-themed bike shop. Yeah. Your life now takes an insane turn. Why did you decide to move to France? And, ⁓ you know, what was the outcome of that decision like for you? ⁓ I had... ⁓ I had started to get tired of wrenching on motorcycles because wrenching on motorcycles is great to a point. I guess it's like being a chef, you know? And ⁓ I had an ⁓ affiliation with all of the original Rod Stewart band, who were all Brits. These were all my friends and stuff. Robin LeMessurier, Jim Cregan, Kevin Savagard, all of those guys. I'd known them for ages. ⁓ And we would always stay in touch. ⁓ I got a call. ⁓ Robin used to have me come over and play bass on his demos. And I played on a couple of songs that he had written. And ⁓ one day, I get this call from him and he says, we're doing this album for this French artist, Johnny Halliday. And ⁓ he's doing a couple of my songs. And the producer heard the bass part that you did on this song and thinks it's dope. Thinks it's dope, brah. Yeah, brah. It's dope, So he says... He said, would you come down and play on the session? And I said, sure. I said, who's the producer? And he said, it's Chris Kimsey. And I went, ⁓ my gosh, Chris Kimsey, yeah. Well, Chris was slated to do the Simon Kirk album. I'd met him very, very briefly. Chris is a wonderful producer. He produced 10 of the Rolling Stones albums. He's produced tons of stuff, all Bad Company stuff. He's really a legend. And he's doing this album over at ⁓ Ocean Way for Johnny Halliday, who I didn't really know too much about. Told my mom she nearly fainted. She was French. This is the French Elvis, right? ⁓ okay, gotcha. So I go down, I play on this track, and walking into there was just like, because I walk in there and it's... with the exception of Kenny Gradney, it's all of little feet. ⁓ wow. That's all the players. Right. And what's his name? The who organ with the stones. ⁓ We're all nodding right now. I'll call you at four. It'll hit me in a second. ⁓ So this is like a who's who. mean, Feet was one of my favorite bands growing up as well. So Intimidated, Richie Haywood. And so we go in there and I play this track and it comes out great. And then they call me back and said, will you plan some more stuff on this? I said, sure, love to. And the next thing, it's like I did this great session on this album. And then I get this phone call and it's Ian Wallace who's doing vocals with Johnny. And he Phil, Ian, how are you? Good, how you doing? I'm in Saint-Tropez. I said, ⁓ very nice for you. Listen, I'm with Johnny, he wants to talk to you. So he puts him on the phone and he goes, hello Phil, it's Johnny. You want to come on tour? I go, what, yeah, great, okay, you speak to my people. All right, and that's it. So I got this invitation to go on tour. Chuck Lavelle. Chuck Lavelle, thank you very much, Chuck Lavelle. Awesome. So that was it. So next thing I know, I'm in the band. So I get onto a plane and this is, they're going to arrange for you to come over there. Okay, there's an Air France flight, first class. We've got a concierge that's going to meet you at the airport in a company who, you know, blah, blah. Nice. It's all like this royalty treatment and start working with Johnny. And I thought Ozzy was big. Yeah. Massive, huh? Unbelievable. Yeah? Unbelievable. These shows, I mean, this guy is a legend. Every time he goes to a show, it's like sold out within 10 seconds. You know, these concerts that we did later on in some of the latter tours. 20,000 people a night. ⁓ 20 nights back to back sold out, 20,000 people every night. It's insane. That's massive. And then we had ⁓ a realization that Johnny and I, both loved motorcycles. ⁓ cool, that just makes it He loved cars, he bikes. He liked going to the gym, working out. We liked all the same things, going out, doing shots. Yeah. know, drinks and stuff like that. So we were kind of kindred spirits and all of a sudden I found that this huge megastar is not just my boss but we're kind of pals. You want to come over here, come over there, let's go here. So we just hung out, we just laughed and joked at everything. There was a great, a brilliant story because Robin was, Robin sadly has passed away now, Robin of Missouri. He's a rock and roll snob. He was, you know, and he was very meticulous in his clothing and his, you know, didn't like too heavy jewelry and everything had to be just, you know, very elegant. Everything was extremely elegant. And we were close friends and he knew I was all in leathers and stuff. And he said to me before we went on this flight to France, he goes, so we're going on there to France and we're flying first class. For God's sake, Phil, try to look presentable, would you? And I said, all right, so I show up, right? Full leathers, leather pants, leather jacket. I got a leather welding cap on, chains, ⁓ jewels, like heavy chains. And Robin sees me walking to the airport and he looks at me and goes, ⁓ God, because I told you to look presentable. He changes his seat so he's not sitting next to me and then I see he's changed his seat so I go, ⁓ this is terrible mistake. think that Mr. Lumaduria has changed his seat. Can you make sure I sit next to him? I have to talk to him in the same bed. Yes, of course we can do that. ⁓ So I get on the plane, I sit down, he goes, you can't sit here, it's my seat. And he spends the whole flight like embarrassed, right? We go into that rehearsal. We go into that rehearsal and he's just rolling his eyes, rolling his eyes. The rehearsal's there, the whole new band's there, about 20 of Johnny's entourage. Then Johnny comes in and he walks in, the whole room goes quiet. He sees me, he walks up. He comes straight up to me and he looks me up and down. turns around to Rob and he goes, I want you to make sure the whole band looks just like this guy. So from that minute, Johnny and I was like, okay, we're speaking the same language here. That's great time. Oh my gosh. That's a good story, man. That's a story. Don't go anywhere, you guys. We've got... Much more with Phil Sousan for this really special episode of Count's Culture. Stick around with us. If you're a fan of this podcast, of counting cars, or of my shop Counts Customs, head over to countscustoms.shop for official gear, collectibles, and shop favorites. Or better yet, come by and see it all right here in person. The builds, the history, the vibe, it's not a showroom, it's an actual working garage. Online or in Vegas, Counts Customs is always worth the stop. Stoney and I are hanging out here with our brother, the legendary bassist, Mr. Phil Sousan. Phil. Yes, so I was looking at Tony. I love it, I love it. Check this out because, okay, you know, you're car and bike guy. Like navigating through a transmission, man, I want to ask my guests a series of escalating questions. Takes us through a facet of their lives, and I like to call this section Shifting Gears. Oh, okay. Are you ready for this? Let get my transmission fluid right here. I love it, I love it, I love it. All right, there's a whole, there's all transmission we're gonna run through here. First gear, you've experienced reinventions, losses, triumphs. What do you now understand about the role of struggling in an artist's life? I think that the whole essence of art is kind of a struggle. So I think it's. heart and parcel of the same thing. ⁓ don't know that something that is a a goal in itself or a, it's not a torch in itself, but it is something that's there. You're trying to do something different and you are doing things that are not in normal convention. So it's by nature, it's a struggle, you know, whether it's trying to get a credit card at the bank or whether it's trying to, you know, be creative. Even within music itself, when I was doing classical studies, we were taught Bach's rules. That's what you learn classical composition on, four-part harmony, this and that, the other. There are rules, the things you don't do, consecutive arches, consecutive fist, this kind of stuff. But that was Bach's rules. Now when you're doing contemporary music, you want to do stuff that breaks rules. So even within music, you're trying to do things that are different. So the struggle is always there. The important thing about the struggle is to use it to give you drive. Nice. Right? Yes. You accept that it is there. You accept it's going to be difficult and you take it as a personal challenge and see if you can rise up above it. I love it. Yeah. That's what I think. Second gear. That was a great answer. Second gear. What has surprised you the most about your solo work and how it evolves each day? ⁓ The thing that surprises me about my solo stuff is the thing that surprises me about all my songwriting that somebody likes or relates to it. That's really, ⁓ that's a holy grail for me. We sort of talked a little bit earlier, touched on songwriting and to illustrate the point with an analogy that I use, songs are like black and white photographs to me. So, ⁓ you know, A color photograph is great. You look at a color photograph and you say, my gosh, this is great. I see it, I get it, this is pretty, it looks beautiful, it looks this or whatever. You show somebody a black and white photograph, they look at it for hours. They look at it a lot longer. Why? Because they have to fill in some gaps. They have to fill in their own colors. And the way they're filling it in is going to be different from one person to the next. But in filling the photograph in, in spending time with it, they also take a possession of it. it becomes their image, not their photograph, but their image, their rendition of your photograph. In the same way, when I write songs, one of the things I do, that Stoney mentioned earlier, you know, don't tell people what the songs are about. The reason you don't tell people what the songs are about is you want them to relate to it in their own personal way. An exercise that I go through when I write a song, sometimes as I'll go through and start to take out the personal stuff, or the stuff that ties it to me personally while keeping the sentiment there. So when somebody else can listen to the song, they can relate to it and say, ⁓ my gosh, that song really helps me because I feel that way, because I feel that that's my story, because I feel that's that song. So then they take possession of it. So when I meet somebody that appreciates one of my songs and says, you know, I really relate to that song, ⁓ that's the thing that really balls me over. In essence, mean, what's the purpose of art? For me, the purpose of art is to take an emotion and through a medium, send it to somebody else and have it sympathetically generate that same emotion in the person, in the recipient. That's really it. Whether it's a painting or whether it's piece of music. If I feel sad that something has happened to me and I feel, for want of a better word, heartbroken, and I write this song and then somebody else listens to it and they feel that same feeling, literally feel that same sentiment, then I have accomplished my mission, which is to transmit emotion through a medium from one person to the next. I think that's what it is. I might be wrong about that, it certainly makes sense. I don't think there is a wrong. I like it. like it. Third gear. Last in line. It's not nostalgia, it's a responsibility. Why was it important for you to join the band, filled in the shoes of the amazing ⁓ Jimmy Bane? Well, Jimmy and I have been friends. know, Jimmy had played in Dio's band. I played in Ozzy. Ozzy and Dio were sort of tied together through the Black Sabbath connection. So we were sort of what I refer to as sister bands. And we had a great amount of respect for our counterparts in each of those bands. Those were our friends. ⁓ to the point Jimmy and I were really good friends. I actually moved in with Jimmy and lived with Jimmy when I first moved to LA. And we were inseparable for a long time. ⁓ And so, you know, when that happened and Vinny had asked me, hey, would you be, do you think you might be interested in, we've got some shows to do, filling in for Jimmy. And I said sure. I came down, had a play and worked out. And this was what I did. Initially it was just a few shows. And I was gonna, you know, pay tribute to my friend Jimmy and try to channel him as best as I could musically and try to do exactly, play exactly how he would have played. was a nice way for me to do something. It couldn't, honestly, it couldn't be a better person. Such a great band. You know, the thing that I loved about it, you know, they played at Vant a bunch of times. And, you know, and we'd go see them around. But, you know, when you're listening to the guys or watching the guys play it... that made it. It's something special. And they've been here rehearsing and stuff. And Vivian Campbell, another one as a kid growing up, was a big thing for me too, Vivian Campbell. So when you guys play, it's that guy playing the guitar, playing those songs, it takes you on a ride, man. Vivian is of a one of a kind, as is Vinny as well. as musical players, they really shift a lot of air. mean, Vivian plays his Les Paul into an angle amp. There's no effects pedals, there's no board, there's no nothing. That's all he's doing. And it's the three of us. And we're managing to cover all of that dynamic range. Vivian's amazing. Yeah, he is. He is. And you've been kind enough to introduce him to us, you know, right here in the studio. he's, ⁓ like yourself, he's a wonderful guy. Fourth gear. Okay. What's the most emotionally honest thing you've ever written? Even if the audience never knew it was about you. Like specifically? A song? It's up to you. Could be a song, could be a poem, I don't know. I mean, there's a bunch of songs that have been, you know, which I don't usually tell people what they're about. Got it. So, yeah, there are songs that I've written, sometimes songs that are directed to one person ⁓ that really are not directed to one person. Got it. Sometimes I write stuff that's directed towards me. Got it. Nice. You know. Okay. Very often I talk to myself. Okay. I used to be schizophrenic, but... We're best in hell. And I know that because I keep telling myself. No, but generally, normally what happens is I do, talk to myself a lot. And sometimes if I'm trying to figure something out, I find the easiest way to do it is to have a discussion with myself. And I'm not schizophrenic. Do you ever argue with yourself? No. Only if I do something really dumb. No, but I think it's a really, you know, I've talked to a lot of people. that, you know, our business. They do the same thing, they talk to themselves. Right, well, I mean, I get it on my level, on a different, it's creative people. As creative people, we talk to ourselves a lot. And sometimes I'll do it late at night if I'm writing something or I can be pacing up and down talking to myself and, you know, my wife might be convinced I'm talking to somebody else. Who talked to you last night? Myself. No, you were talking to somebody. No, I was talking to myself, So, no, I'm just joking. was Jake from State Farm. She never says that. But no, I think there's some sense to it. Yeah. It's like thinking out loud or something, right? You're not going to get an argument from me or the other me. Fifth gear. Is there a dream collaboration that you still secretly hope to get a phone call about? Somebody you'd love to work with, something like that? You know, I would have loved to have worked with David Bowie. I met David Bowie, I spent some time with him socially. That's so cool. Yeah, but I never managed to work with him. I would have loved to work. I know a lot of the people he worked with. Carmen Rose, Carlos Alomar, all of those people. Many of the people he worked with. But, you know, f***ing Mick Ronson back in the day. It was amazing. Yeah, that's huge. What was Bowie like on a personal level? Very humble. Very. I mean, was, you know, incredibly so. He was just very on the same level. Just a great guy. I had a great time hanging out with him. That's cool. Yeah, and I was fully expecting something quite different. Also, a guy who was very much on input. You know, sometimes you talk to people. and you realize that they're just absorbing everything that you're saying ⁓ as opposed to kind of trying to talk themselves, talk about themselves like I've been doing here today. But he was very interested. And you know, as I think Dale Carnegie says, people who are interested are the most interesting people in the world. That's great. Overdrive. Overdrive. When the curtain finally comes down, what do you hope the people closest to you say you were like when the amps were off? And this is gonna be me and Stoney. Hopefully not for a long, time. No, it's, it's, it's, this is, this is, this need to know here. This is 100 years down, this is 100 years from now. What would the legacy be? What do you hope that the closest people to you would say about you? when your amps were off, you know, just about the man. I'd do anything to help anyone else. I can't argue with that. Yeah, I do try to do that. In fact, anyone who does know me knows that if somebody needs some help with something, I'm right there. I'll just drop everything and it's just something I love doing. And it's not to try to make me look good, it's for a selfish reason because I really... really do enjoy the kind of teaching aspect. The stuff that I've learned, I love the ability to pass it on. I want to share that. So it's a little selfish really. So somebody says to me, hey, know, I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out my anything. Could be my car, my bike, my ⁓ piece of music, my investments, anything like that. And I'll be like, hey, let me explain to you. Here. sit down, let's work this out and see what I can do to help. Or I will drop things, I'll drop time, I'll drop things and go do things for people. So that's, you know, I think if I have to say that the meaning of life, you know, the meaning of life is a question that we get asked a lot about a lot and you think about all these different things and we all know you can't take it with you. drive your car to heaven but there ain't no parking lot. know. So I used that in one of the songs I wrote. I was going to say what a great set of lyrics right there. It's from a song, yeah. It's a song I wrote. ⁓ Really the only thing that really makes a difference I think is maybe it's making a difference to somebody else's life. Nice. Maybe that's the meaning of life. As your friend I completely see that in you. Yeah. Bro, I just wanna say thank you for being here. mean, we've hit the questions for everybody, we've run through all the gears. You're amazing, your stories are unbelievable. And I know there's so much more, but thank you for taking this time with us here today at Count's Culture. ⁓ for everybody watching. ⁓ Phil Sousan, man, I mean, he's amazing, number one, but number two, you really are our brothers. mean, you know, we get to hang out a lot and I'm blessed more for it. We absolutely do, and I'm thrilled for our friendship. It's one of my favorite things about being here. thank you so much for having me on this show. It's Very flattered, humbled, thrilled, excited, and honored. Thank you, my brother. Stoney, would you do me a favor? Would you close the show out? Phil, let's go get that smoke machine. We'll be back next week with a whole new episode of Count's Culture. Here exclusively on YouTube. That was great, man. Our brother Phil rocks. You know cracks me up? No matter how many years we go back, I still learn new stuff. Yeah. These episodes have been great, but we're running out of time. You know I We need... There's so many layers to these guests that we're just scratching the surface. And I know we say this every time, we're just scratching the surface. But again, with Phil's another one, we're just scratching the surface. We didn't get in him... being a chef and owning a sushi restaurant. way into financial stuff. mean, there's so many ⁓ he's big on that. He's a stock market guy. He's all of that. know. Phil is amazing, but what another great episode. I love his stories about Ozzy, the practical joking Ozzy. mean, that's just great. He does a great impression of That's one of the best ones I've heard, actually. To me, it is the best, because I'll imitate Ozzy myself and mess with that. Phil sounds just like Ozzy. Yeah, and you gotta have the little stutter and stuff. Right, right, right, right, right, right. know, I know. Yeah, but I mean, what a life and what a career. I just some of the people that he's been involved with and had crossed paths with and made music with. I mean, it's a who's who of rock and roll. Well, and we didn't even get to touch on... his new solo project. He's working on new stuff right now. And we'll be updating you all on that. Yeah, he's an artist that hasn't stopped. He's still creating every day and writing new stuff. And not everyone does that. Especially these guys have been around a long time. go, well, I wrote Shot in Dark and I'm done. No, not Phil. He's very driven. Yeah. Another great episode. That's a wrap, you guys, for this episode of Count's Culture. Thanks for hanging out with us. Once again, I'm so grateful that we get to be a part of your night. ⁓ If you want the full experience, head over to our YouTube channel at Count's Culture, and culture is with a K, and watch the entire episode there. You can also find the show on all major podcast platforms. And please connect with us on TikTok, X, Facebook, and Instagram for exclusive and behind the scenes content. Until next time, stay cool, be safe, and please get back home to Count's Culture soon. See you then.