speaker-0: Hi there, I'm Pastor Toot Whitley and this is Conversion Therapy, a podcast where I help lost lambs back to the heterosexual pasture. As you may know from my Sunday services, I myself am a reformed homosexual. In fact, I was once in a polycule. It was me, two twinks named Owen, and a leather daddy who was uncut with a tattoo of Liza Minnelli from the second Sex and the City movie. Now the only polycule I'm in is with the father, son, and only ghost. So if I can do it, so can you. And so can our guest for the day. Please open your hearts to lesbian. Chelsea Morgan. Hi, thank you. thank you so much for being here. I'm very blessed to have you here. Chelsea, just so I know where we're starting off here, how lesbian would you say you are? speaker-1: Thank you for having me. Like on a Kenzie scale. speaker-0: Well, I don't know what that is, a Kinsey skill. Can you explain that to me? speaker-1: So yeah, the Kenzie scale, like the 10 is like you're very, very gay. ⁓ One is you're very, very straight. So you can kind of like, you know, fall in any ⁓ number. speaker-0: That's great. So it's a number to gauge whether or not you'll be welcome into the kingdom of heaven is sort of what I'm understanding. And where might you fall? speaker-1: Yeah, in a way. know, historically, I'd say a nine. Mm hmm. 9.58. Mm hmm. But I'd love to get that number lower. speaker-0: Absolutely. And I appreciate you coming here today to get that number down. Thank of religious weight watchers if you will. Yeah. So it says here that you were born at Lesbian General Hospital. Can you tell me a bit about that? speaker-1: Yeah, so, ⁓ sorry, this is just getting me choked up a little bit. I can kind of like feel it coming out of me in a way, which is interesting. ⁓ Lesbian hospital, yeah, so, know, being gay isn't really like a choice. ⁓ my parents were wanting to kind of like adopt like a new way of ⁓ birthing a child and bringing a child. speaker-0: Yeah, it's a hard thing to talk about. understand that. That's beautiful. Yeah, I heard that the doctor used a carabiner to cut your umbilical cord. speaker-1: Yeah, so that was like an interesting choice and that kind of like really defined who I was in that first moment of breathing. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I hear at Lesbian General Hospital, sort of all the doctors holding hands, seeing the indigo girls. And you came into this world to the dulcet tones of Birkenstock slapping on the floor. Absolutely. Do think that might have influenced your homosexuality a little bit? speaker-1: 100 % They say that my umbilical cord was shaped like a rainbow Yeah Yeah speaker-0: Wow, a beautiful arc. And so some might even say that this is where you began your journey of homosexuality. that there's a long road to go to becoming normal. Yes. Yes, and that's perfect. I do appreciate you sharing that with me. I was curious, what might you think will be the toughest obstacle for you on your journey to straightness? speaker-1: just think queer people are so beautiful and I really love to have intercourse with queer people. It's huge. It might be the thing that I'm like, how do I defeat that? speaker-0: Gay sex is a big one for you. Yeah, that was difficult for me as well. Well, you know, it was tough. ⁓ had been sort of passed around the community as sort of a sexual... ⁓ speaker-1: Sorry, real quick, you've been past- speaker-0: was passed around the community. I was sort of used like a down home country glory hole. I was in and out, I was around, I was up and down. And for me it was mostly a journey about coming to terms with, this feels like heaven on earth, but what about after earth? And hoping that ultimately in the long run, I might be able to find some salvation and some peace. speaker-1: Yeah, because if you were at heaven on earth in the afterlife. speaker-0: What's next? What's next? And that's really what I'm concerned about. That's really why I'm bringing you here today. And I'm so grateful that you're open to the process. Because I want you to be able to take the feeling of intercourse, gay intercourse, and know that it's wrong. And that's the thing that I hope you take from this, that what you're doing is wrong. speaker-1: wrong. Yeah. speaker-0: So one thing, and now that we're talking about this on your journey, I know we got a little dork, a little sad there for a minute, but now that we're headed towards the light, we're headed towards straightness, very exciting. What's the most exciting thing for you about being straight? speaker-1: You know, I wanna walk into a room and I want cis men to ⁓ look at me and know that they have a chance. I think it's important to give cis men an opportunity ⁓ to get to know me a little bit more on a deeper level. Also, ⁓ know, waiting in line. I, ⁓ as a queer person, former queer person, people let me cut in line. speaker-0: Oh yeah, that's a big problem within the straight community about the queer community. We don't really care about like y'all want a marriage or y'all wanting to be able to adopt children. Mostly we're upset about like, no cuts. Hey, no cuts in the line. Yeah, so that's big. And I do actually think it's very charitable of you to give cis men a chance. They do not have enough in this world. Yeah. And they should have access to you. speaker-1: Yeah, yes. think another thing I'm excited about is like the acronym LGBTQ. There's just a lot of letters and I am just happy about like kind of throwing that away and not having to say which letter I am. speaker-0: Absolutely, becoming sort of post acronym, post language. speaker-1: Right. Because there's no, there's no S in the acronym and that's. speaker-0: true. They should put more S's in the acronym. Put a couple. LGBTQSSSS. Sort of an equal rights situation. I think that's beautiful. That's very smart. Okay, so to get an idea of how far you've strayed from God's light, we're gonna do a couple exercises because we need to know where you're starting to get you where you're going. speaker-1: That's what I'm saying. Absolutely. Okay. speaker-0: I'm gonna start with one exercise. It's a finish this sentence exercise. So I'm gonna say the first half and you're gonna say the second half of the sentence. So a top is. speaker-1: ⁓ Someone who usually ⁓ is on top and they penetrate the other person. speaker-0: Yeah, so I'm gonna stop you right there. We're already kind of having an issue. A top is actually something my meemaw whittles from wood and gives to me during land. So okay, I'm gonna make a note of that. That's fine, we two more. got two more. A switch is... speaker-1: someone who goes back and forth between being a bottom and being a top. speaker-0: Okay, yeah, now I'm seeing where we're headed. A switch is actually what the nun used to use on my behind when I got fresh in grade school. Okay, so we're gonna go to the last one here. ⁓ A bottom is... speaker-1: ⁓ Another way of saying a bottom is like a pillow princess. You're kind of just like on your back and you're ready to receive. speaker-0: Okay, yeah. A bottom is actually my position in the pyramid at the church picnic. So I'm getting a good sense of where we're gonna start, but we're gonna do one more exercise, all right? You're doing very well. Thank you. You're doing very well. We're gonna play around to this or that. So I'm gonna say two things, and you're just gonna choose one, okay? So an ice cream social or gay sex? Gay sex. Okay, all right. First, Eucharist, Crisp from the package or gay sex? speaker-1: ASAP. speaker-0: Okay, Eternal salvation in the eyes of the Lord and those who love you or gay sex. speaker-1: and there's no... And if I were to say cut the camera... speaker-0: There's just two options. that's, I mean, I would know. Only you would know. speaker-1: I'm gonna have to go with my heart here. Mm-hmm. And say gay sex. speaker-0: Great. ⁓ I do think that we have our work cut out for us, but luckily I've invited a friend and heterosexuality expert on the podcast today. Her name is Vanessa Cathay Gap. So we're gonna take a short break and we're gonna come right back and we're gonna get started on this conversion. Thank you so much. speaker-1: Thank you so much, pastor. speaker-0: Hi, sorry I'm late. I was coming from my son's football game. I have six sons and they're all on one team. Shark, ghoul, rock, zin, zac, and punch. And they were all playing. But it's so nice to meet you. What's name, Ellen? What's up? Your name's Ellen. ⁓ Chelsea. Okay, well I'm the femininity coach and I'm here to get you from gay to normal. speaker-1: That's beautiful. ⁓ no, Chelsea. speaker-0: So by the time you leave here, you're be really normal, okay? No problem, it's my pleasure. Okay, so I'm gonna go through a series of exercises with you in order to sort of get you closer to where we're training at you, is that okay? Okay, and can you tell me three things about yourself really fast? speaker-1: Thank you. ⁓ I really like playing softball. speaker-0: Okay? speaker-1: ⁓ I love to go to like queer community events. speaker-0: Sorry, I meant yuck. Okay, what's the third one? speaker-1: ⁓ I like to sing. speaker-0: Okay, beautiful. You love to sing. Yeah, I'm sort of losing a bit of hair over here, but... Yeah, I'm sick. speaker-1: Are you okay? I'm so sorry. Like sick. speaker-0: It's okay. It's okay. I'm just you know, I'm sick with being around like a gay person. ⁓ and make my body go. don't like that Yeah, my body reacting to that but that's okay. Okay. So you love to sing that's beautiful a lady does sing So that's great. Perfect. So we're gonna we're here, you know that you've been struggling with sort of giving up Any sex speaker-1: Yeah, your body's kind of reacting. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ I'm losing a lot of hair. More hair came out. I made a pile of my hair, but you know what's really sweet? What? When my hair falls out, put in my husband's pillow so that he can always smell me when he's sleeping. Thank you. I love my husband. Thank you. You haven't heard a thing about. speaker-1: ⁓ You have a little pile down there. It's really romantic. He sounds like a really great guy. No, I haven't. speaker-0: But you know that he's good, which is great because we're going to get you a husband. Okay, so we're going to start with some visualizations. Anything the mind can conceive, the heart can believe that you can achieve. Okay. Thank Jesus said that. Okay. So what I want you to do is just close your eyes and close your eyes. And I want you to picture an incredibly handsome man in front of you. Really handsome. really sexy to you, a really sexy man. So do you have that man in your mind's eye? Okay, so do you mind describing him to me? speaker-1: Yeah, so ⁓ I'd say like ⁓ tall. Sort of has like just really kind. speaker-0: Okay, love. Keep them closed. keep them closed and tell me so sort of kind what? speaker-1: kindness, just sort of like an energy that is like warm and welcoming and like caretaking. speaker-0: Okay, caretaking and in what way would he take care of you? speaker-1: I think he would take care of me in a way that's like, you know, helping me with like my makeup or... speaker-0: Okay. So I see sort of where we went wrong here. I see that you were sort of picturing what could be described as a gay man or perhaps a drag queen. That's sort of opposite to what we're trying to do here. Are you taking this seriously? You want to be straight? speaker-1: No, of course, of course. speaker-0: Yeah, okay, so then close your eyes. This will help you on your journey from whatever the hell you are now to something much better. Okay. I just want you to picture a man who's like really handsome. You maybe want to have children with okay, so do you have that man in your head? Yeah. Yes. ⁓ speaker-1: really big muscles. It's almost like an arm that feels abnormal. Yeah, like one of those lumps. And then I think he's like smoking a pipe, like from a pipe. Yeah, and he has like a tattoo of like a sailor or something like from the sea. speaker-0: Yeah, like a lump. Okay, he's had a big long pay. Okay. So the image I'm getting is sort of Popeye, that? speaker-1: Yeah, I think Popeye is extremely nice. I think Popeye is extremely sexy. You didn't say, you just said picture a man. speaker-0: Open your eyes. So that's a fictional man. Okay, you know what, that's fair. You're on a date with Popeye. I want to hear about your ideal date with Popeye. speaker-1: He's like the lump and he's like smoking ⁓ the pipe and he like lets me do whatever I want to him. And I'm of like, I'm doming him a little bit. And he's just like wearing like sort of a dress. speaker-0: Okay. Okay, so you're describing a muscular woman with a pipe. speaker-1: I guess you could say I am. speaker-0: Right. I think we should move on to affirmations. I think maybe that'll help you. That's okay. You're answering with your heart and I appreciate that, but you are wrong and you're going to hell. Okay. You're welcome. Okay, so I'm just going to say some affirmations and I want you to repeat after me. No, you can keep them open. I do not want to eat pussy. speaker-1: Thank you, Ms. Thaga. It was my I do not want to eat pussy. speaker-0: Okay, I want to bedazzle reusable Starbucks cups and sell them on Etsy. speaker-1: That one's a little tough for me. I want to bedazzle Starbucks cups reusable and sell them on Etsy. speaker-0: Okay, perfect. I do not want to buy Dicky's workwear pants. We'll deal with that next. speaker-1: I'm wearing Carhartt right now. to buy Dickie's work wear and wear them as pants. speaker-0: gorgeous. I want to go brunette to change things up. speaker-1: I want to go brunette to change things up. speaker-0: I do not want to wear a natural deodorant. speaker-1: What would I wear? speaker-0: Deodorant. speaker-1: I do not want to wear natural deodorant. speaker-0: want to say awesome sauce? when my husband suggests no eye contact missionary. speaker-1: I want to say awesome sauce when my husband suggests no eye contact missionary. speaker-0: Say it. Okay, and do you have any other affirmations that you'd like to add? Either things you'd like to let go of, of your queer experience, or things you'd like to embrace about straightness? speaker-1: I guess I would love to remove U-Haul from my vocabulary. speaker-0: ⁓ That's a good one. It's a really good one. I think removing U-Haul from your vocabulary is a great one. You know, U-Hauls are only supposed to be for moving into a McMansion with your husband and two and a half kids. speaker-1: Thank Yeah. I think the term carpet muncher is like pretty funny. Mm-hmm. And like I used to like identify with that. Mm-hmm. speaker-0: You would identify as a carpet muncher. speaker-1: Yeah, you seem kind of I don't know disgusted by speaker-0: Yeah, I'm repulsed by that. The only carpet I'm munching is when I'm pregnant with my 14th child and I have pika. I'm being sort of for a little taste of rock or chalk or clay. Or when I've been on a diet for a really long time and I sort of need something to take the edge off. Yeah. I'll pick up my ⁓ pink Turkish ruggable sort of suck on one of the corners. That's the only rug munching I'm doing. Yeah. speaker-1: Okay, I'll consider that. speaker-0: Just an alternative, you know? Yeah, absolutely. It's like a gay diet. You can go from eating pussy to sort of licking a carpet that your children and dog walk on. speaker-1: that is washable. And you can get 15 % off of your first order. speaker-0: And you know, you can put it right in the washi-wi sheet after. Ruggable. They would absolutely love to sponsor this podcast. There's nothing problematic about it at all. Great. Okay, well those were some really good affirmations. Is there anything else that you'd like to ask me? You know, I am a femininity coach and part of becoming a woman in the Lord's eyes and becoming Shae is to be a gorgeous and perfect woman. speaker-1: Ahem. Yeah, I think it's tough for me to kind of like show my femininity like if I were to wear like a low-cut shirt, I think that would make me uncomfortable. Yeah speaker-0: So something about wearing low-cut shirts is that you want the shirt to be maybe a centimeter or centimeter and a half from showing your nipple at any time. And the point of that is to entice males to mate. That's the only reason why you would show cleavage. speaker-1: Okay. speaker-0: So embracing your femininity does mean sort of a nipple forward practice when it comes to building your wardrobe. I think you look really beautiful in like a really deep V, a plunging V. Okay. Or maybe sort of like a halter, but you wear it backwards. So it ties around the back of your neck and your boobs are just sort of out in the front. speaker-1: Okay. Okay, so not like a, a, okay, yeah, that makes sense. speaker-0: ⁓ What kind of stores do you shop at normally? speaker-1: Wild fang. I'll go to the thrift store. ⁓ Crossroads. speaker-0: I'm gonna be bald by the end of this. ⁓ cuz the hair. Yeah. speaker-1: ⁓ What stories would you recommend? speaker-0: Laine Bryant and I love to shop at American Eagle especially since it's a Cindy Sweetie commercial which I love her. Love it. speaker-1: Yeah, that one was hard for me to kind of wrap my head around speaker-0: I thought it was sort of romantic the way that she referenced eugenics. That was really cool to me. So yeah, if you have any questions that you have for me before... speaker-1: you like. You know? Yeah, I guess like one thing is like shaving my legs. Like, is that something I'm gonna have to start doing? speaker-0: Yeah, so unfortunately when you decide to become straight everything about you is actually disgusting. It needs to be dealt with. So we're gonna do sort of like a tip to taint wax. We're gonna dip you in something really hot and it's gonna hurt. That is actually fine. speaker-1: it. And what if I my nipple pierced? ⁓ okay. speaker-0: It's as long as it's only for your husband. I know some other femininity coaches might not agree, but I do think that you can have a nipple piercing. Okay. As long as it's only seen by your husband. Your husband, yeah. speaker-1: I guess the last question I would like to know is like, you know, with queer sex, you pretty much come like climax. ⁓ What's that? I have an orgasm. speaker-0: Well, I experienced pleasure while having sex with my husband thinking about them. The dinner that I'm gonna make for him after. think, ooh, it's gonna be so fun to boil potatoes and put some unsalted butter on them. That's sort of how I experienced pleasure. It is sort of a potato-based pleasure. Oh yeah, please. speaker-1: So I'll just find kind of like. ⁓ one more thing. I have ⁓ an entire drawer of like strap-ons and vibrators and like sex stuff. What would you recommend? Because I don't want to like throw that away. Do I recycle it? speaker-0: Yeah. Um, so I've never had to deal with like gross disgusting, like the things like that. But whenever I have to get rid of something, what I'll do is take it out back and get my husband's gun and just sort of use it as target practice. And I've done that with, you know, an old dining room table that I was getting rid of. I did it with my Ninja creamy when it stopped working. It can make me my low calorie high protein. So you started to take it the back and shot it up with a gun. And so what I would suggest is seeing if you go to like a range, a shooting range, and hanging them up like sort of like a disgusting lesbian chandelier and shooting them. Maybe keeping in your mind's eye like, yes, exactly. In a way to sort of rid them from your system. Yeah, no problem. speaker-1: all the X's I used them with. Okay, thank you. It was so nice to meet you. speaker-0: Really nice to meet you. I do have to go. have a berries boot camp workout class and if you do the best in it, they let you look at a picture of a cookie. So like I have to really go and do that. speaker-1: Yeah, by all means. speaker-0: It's six months later and we're back with our guest Chelsea Morgan. speaker-1: ⁓ I'm so sorry. I was just captivated by this book I just picked up. Yeah. I learned that you have to obey your authority. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, obedience to authority. You learn so far from the book. So you've gotten the core of the book. That's pretty good. Yeah. Now, Chelsea, you look so much lighter and brighter now that you're here. Thank you. Some people even change their names in their straightness journey. Is there a different name that you go by now? speaker-1: Absolutely. I go by Jen now. Jen! Yeah. speaker-0: Wow, that's very beautiful. And you your haircut's looking very lovely. speaker-1: Thank you so much. moment I left our last session, I went straight to the salon and I said, give me the Rachel. And they did. And so I feel lighter, brighter, happier, smooth. speaker-0: So you're on a ⁓ friends adjacent straight journey. speaking of which, what's new with you? know, have you moved apartments? Have you started? Have you met anyone special? Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, I guess you're I recently got a job at the mall. ⁓ It's called ⁓ Seasons Greetings. And I am selling scented candles, scented aromas. I'm selling choker scents that you can wear around your neck. And it's all like, know, pumpkin spice, very fall oriented. It's very seasons. Like you walk in there and you go, is it Christmas morning? I can't wait for this to happen. speaker-0: That's so beautiful and you know for our audience listening at home, ⁓ Jen is now wearing a sort of turtleneck sweater with another sweater on top. It's a cardigan on top of that. sweater combo. speaker-1: And I know it is 84 degrees outside, but I just love... speaker-0: Yeah, you're very cozy. actually noticed when you walked in you kind of smelled like pumpkin spice kind of ⁓ You know a mix of nutmeg allspice cinnamon. Is that one of your choker products? speaker-1: Absolutely. I started injecting myself with potpourri. I mashed it and what I do is I take an oil-based blend and I mix it up and I make it so that it's pure liquid and then I take a syringe and I will inject myself with the stuff with the potpourri. With the stuff. Yeah, with the potpourri and so it not only do I have to wear the choker at all times I can kind of just ⁓ illuminate a scent of ⁓ fall and season's greetings. Wow. Yeah. speaker-0: Wow, sort of heating potpourri over a spoon and sucking it up with a syringe and then putting it in your arm. speaker-1: Yeah, and I'll put it in my butt sometimes too because I speaker-0: Like inject it in your butt or just sort of put it in the hole and squeeze it out. So top to bottom, T to B, smelling like pumpkin spice potpourri. That's unintentionally. speaker-1: Yeah, and so that's Thank you. Thank you. speaker-0: That's beautiful. Okay, so, you know, this straight journey seems to have been doing you really well. You smell incredible. You look incredible. You got a new job. That's pretty incredible. How have the sales been going at that job? You know, how have ⁓ at Seasons Greetings? Do you find that, you know, what type of clientele comes in? speaker-1: A lot of ⁓ older elderly women, ⁓ women in their 90s are coming in. speaker-0: They're very old. speaker-1: Very old. speaker-0: I guess when you're that old, it's nice to mark the passing of the seasons in a store like Seasons Greeting. speaker-1: Yeah, and I think age is timeless. speaker-0: I think that that is a beautiful sentiment. Okay, so lots of old people coming in and what would you say is your racket? Do you have a certain season that you're really good at selling? Because obviously a store like yours does Christmas, Valentine's Day, Easter. Do you feel like you have one holiday that you're really good? speaker-1: Yeah, I'd say Christmas is like, you know, it's, oh my gosh. Oh, you got. Yeah, it gets me really aggressive. So I do have to kind of check myself. It gets me aggressive in a way that I get so excited. You know, it's Jesus Christ's birthday. speaker-0: sort of a look in your eye. Jesus is Christ's birthday. It is on the 25th. speaker-1: On the 25th of December, it is Jesus Christ's birthday. And that is the one time of year that I'm going holy moly. I cannot wait to wake up, celebrate him, he him. And really get down to the core moment of what this day represents. Decor. ⁓ So I'm really. And the what? speaker-0: Absolutely And a list of presents to core. ⁓ you know, that's gorgeous. I know something I love to put in my home is sort of like a little engraved wood sign around the holidays. Do you have any signs that you sell in your store for Christmas sort of to put up? speaker-1: End of Yeah, keep bright and keep shining. ⁓ speaker-0: keep right keep shining speaker-1: It has like a little critter on the bottom. Oh, that's cute. speaker-0: Ew, I love a little critter. That's really beautiful. I love a little critter. That's crazy. That's really beautiful. you. Wow, and like, you, for around Christmas, do you have sort of hot scents that you inject around them that are a little different? speaker-1: Let's go. Yeah, I have one that I kind of blended on my own. It's sort of ⁓ a wood, ⁓ tabernacle. It's supposed to illuminate the scent of Jesus's cross, the one that he died on. speaker-0: ⁓ so you smell sort of like when Jesus was dying on the cross during Christmas. That's a really beautiful way to sort of beginning and end of his life, know, track that through scent and you're still injecting that in the ass. speaker-1: Absolutely. And that one's going straight into the hole. speaker-0: Okay, that's really beautiful. That's a good way to celebrate. Okay, so clearly you're very busy on the work front. Now I have to ask, is there anyone special in your life? speaker-1: If you're watching right now, Gregory, turn it off. speaker-0: Go Shots! ⁓ you don't want him to know. speaker-1: Well, ⁓ yeah, we've been, I met someone on christianmingled.com. speaker-0: Christian mingle fish dot com. Wow, we've had a lot of clients that have had much success there. speaker-1: Yeah, christianmingletuna.com speaker-0: So this is specific fish. Christian mingle tuna. So how is that different from Christian mingle duck? speaker-1: It's actually people that who used to eat pussy. It's sort of kind of like all about your practice in a way. Okay. So it's former ⁓ pussy eaters. so, you know, Gregory, ⁓ although he's never eaten pussy, ⁓ he has fornicated with a penis. speaker-0: Seed. Okay, so Gregory is also has undergone conversion therapy is looking to lead a straight life. Yeah, and yeah and be holy in the eyes of the Lord Okay, so it's sort of a dating website that matches it former Demons from hell To to lead a holy life together that's pretty beautiful. Okay, so what's a what's a typical night in with you and Gregory? speaker-1: my gosh, we order pizza and we're sitting on the couch and we're watching ⁓ RuPaul's Drag Race and we are just like gabbing. We are talking about our days and just like kind of getting really into it and like gossiping and then just like really just talking about whoever and whatever. It's like so much fun. And then we just kind of, we're laughing so much. We're like drinking wine. ⁓ grape juice. ⁓ I didn't know that. Okay, he's gonna be so happy to hear that. And then we honestly just fall asleep. like put our face masks on and we're just like, really just kind of, you know, it feels like a girls night. It's so fun. speaker-0: You can have one. You know what you're describing kind of sounds like a girl's night. I'm glad that you and Gregory clearly have a strong connection. You very much enjoy each other's company, but if you don't mind me asking, I don't ask this to be crass. I ask this to help make sure that you're on the right path in your journey towards ⁓ reaching the kingdom of heaven. What are your sexual relations like? speaker-1: ⁓ I haven't really thought about that. We will kiss and we will like kiss really hard sometimes. You kiss. Because we want to create that intimacy, you know, and we're holding hands and hugging and just sort of like cuddling. speaker-0: It's hard, like you're pressing your heads together really hard. Okay, okay. So there's physical connection there. That's beautiful. Okay, well, what's one sexual position that you and Gregory really love? speaker-1: ⁓ he and is it okay to say, ⁓ speaker-0: Absolutely. This is people know not to listen to this in the car when they're driving their kids. So that's okay. This is all adults here. speaker-1: Okay. Okay. ⁓ yeah, I've pegged him a few times. speaker-0: Okay, maybe actually that we shouldn't say. thought you were going to say something different. that, don't know, missionary or even some sort of oral fornication, but you're saying that you're pegging Gregory. Yeah. speaker-1: What did you think I was going to say? Yeah, because we're just using practices like what we're used to. So the idea is kind of just like we do that to transition into, you know, a more traditional, regular, normal way of having sex. speaker-0: So do you mean like you transition from pegging into missionary or you transition from pegging into strapping? speaker-1: We're transitioning into pegging him into missionary. We just haven't gotten there yet. speaker-0: Okay, so the idea is sort of long term, you're aiming for missionary. Yeah. Okay, ⁓ you know, I can appreciate you need to take baby steps. ⁓ Well, that's beautiful. What would you say is one of the most romantic moments you've shared with Gregory so far? romantic date? ⁓ Some sort of romantic gesture? speaker-1: Yeah. He took me out to, this is such a funny story. He took me out to WeHo one night, West Hollywood, and we just got... speaker-0: That's where hell is. Just so you know, that's where hell is. But continue. speaker-1: ⁓ Well you didn't let me finish. ⁓ Thank you. ⁓ We just started taking down all the rainbow flags. speaker-0: And you know what? That's Wow! I'm almost moved to tears. can't believe I questioned you for a minute. What did you do with all the rainbow flags you took down? speaker-1: Thank you, it's okay. Well, we stored them up and I started cutting them up and into tiny pieces and I bought a massive blender and I put them in the blender and I used an ⁓ oil-based blend and sort of just blended it up and then we put it in the syringe and ⁓ I injected it into my ass. speaker-0: Okay, so we took a couple turns there and at first I thought you're taking them down, good. You're storing them, why? You're cutting them up, good. Bought a big blender, could be seen as gay, Vitamix, homosexual invention. Blended them up, good. Boiled them down and injected them. So that to me feels like inviting more queerness into your life. speaker-1: was more of just like a way to kind of fight back the urge. Because I'm a fighter. speaker-0: Yeah, I could tell. I'm really gripping onto your pants really tight. And that raw denim. speaker-1: I'm a fighter and So I I want almost the urge to be inside of me and I'm like going no speaker-0: Yeah, that's gorgeous. Just adjust your Rachel a little. Just pull your Rachel down a little. ⁓ Okay, so you're injecting pride flags from WeHo into your ass. Okay, so we're sort of we're sort of hemming and hawing in our journey to straightness, but you've really got the visuals down. You look very straight. Thank you. Which is, think, incredibly important. know, we got to we got to dress for the job we want to say, you know, just for the just for the eternal life in heaven that we want. Absolutely. Okay, so you got a new job. You got a new partner. Is there anything else in your straight life that you've really been enjoying any any interests or speaker-1: Thank you. speaker-0: activities that have been taking up a lot of your time some straight interest in activities. So you're whispering that you want me to help you out with some straight activities. I don't know, maybe like a coed dodgeball league, maybe like axe throwing. speaker-1: I am in a dodgeball league, but it's not gonna speaker-0: ⁓ okay. Well, are you on a team with all straight women? Like, is it a church team? We have an in-house church team here at the church, St. Paul's that I practice at. ⁓ We have an in-house dodgeball team, the Holy Rollers ⁓ and the Heavenly Dodgers. ⁓ Absolutely. speaker-1: Can I ask you something? Heavenly Dodgers, that feels more like you're dodging heaven. And so I'd like to ask you, are you dodging heaven a little bit? speaker-0: I mean, I've committed myself to the cloth, so myself, no. Heavenly Dodgers is sort of supposed to be a play on Heavenly Father, but I totally understand what you're saying, and you know what? Maybe we could reconvene and have a vote on changing that name. speaker-1: Thank you, yeah, yeah, because yeah, sorry, that just threw me. Because I thought maybe if you're struggling, then that kind of brings you down to more of a human level. maybe I can connect with you more. speaker-0: Totally, and you know, I would say being on a dodgeball team called Heavenly Dodgers is arguably far worse than cutting up a pride of leg, reducing it to a liquid and shooting it into your ass with your formerly gay boyfriend that you watch RuPaul's Drag Race with. So I'm really glad that you called me out on that. Thank you. That's a really important thing to remember. speaker-1: I just think it's all it's nice to you know I'm sitting here and and you're saying this and that and then I I should have the opportunity to be like hey speaker-0: Absolutely, you know what go ahead. I think that's a very good thing you just suggested because we all need to be held to the light of Christ It's not just you. It's not just anybody who comes through these doors hundred percent success rate on the conversion therapy Thank you so much. It's my it's my life's work. I think yes, I go right ahead ask me anything you want to ask you speaker-1: Yeah, congrats by the way. Yeah, so you were married before. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. I was married. I was. speaker-1: to a man. Is this man. speaker-0: Yeah, I was married to another cis man, Pitoir, he's from France. We met on a gay men's cruise in which you got 50 % off your ticket if you were able to stamp your balls into sort of like, if you went around, everyone had a autograph book, sort of like you might bring to Disneyland as a kid. If you got 10 ball stamps into your autograph book, your ticket was free. And I'll tell you, I never pay for a ticket on that cruise, I many times. at the bar. We were both drinking anal sex on the beach which is you the classic cocktail sex on the beach but they put a little chocolate syrup in it. And we ended up sharing one with two straws. speaker-1: ⁓ my god, that is... sorry, romantic. speaker-0: It was at the time, you know, and we were married for 16 and a half years. And I spent some of the most wonderful years of my life with him, but what I ultimately realized is the joy that I feel, the genuine joy that I feel being held by another man, the warmth of a man's chest on my chest when we're simply embracing the love I see in his eyes looking back at mine. speaker-1: ⁓ my god. Yeah. speaker-0: that actually there's a book from a really long time ago that says I shouldn't do that. And the book sorta won out. speaker-1: Yeah, because to listen to a book from, you know, thousands or however long years ago, long years ago, it's it's almost like it's so it's important and it's relevant now. And even though times have changed and we're all human and it's sort of the the slogan, it's OK to be gay is that's not OK. speaker-0: Yeah, however. No. In fact, my slogan is, it's not okay to be gay. And that's what I realized from that book. ⁓ yeah, we're legally divorced. And of course we were never truly married in the eyes of Lord. So, and I believe now he lives off the coast of St. John's in Canada with his new husband. speaker-1: And you know, you divorced. speaker-0: a sweet young fellow who's a fisherman named Andrew. And they're quite happy together, but we don't stay in touch. It would just be too hard. speaker-1: So are you happier now? speaker-0: I would have to say I am because every time I sit down and read the good book, I think I did what you said. I did what you said, Lord, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, I did what you said. And I know that by withholding myself from the pleasures of existing as who you are inherently is sort of that asceticism, that practice of rigorous self-discipline. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: that helps you race through the kingdom of heaven's gates. Thank you so much. Of course, you know, I think it's important to share my journey from time to time because it hasn't been an easy one. I often share examples of my sort of a lascivious and sinful life that I experienced many years ago. you know, as an older cis male gay gentleman, formally gay gentleman, speaker-1: Amazing. Wow, thank you for sharing that. speaker-0: It's important that I share my experiences with you. What about you? When you come across a woman who in your previous homosexual and sinful life you would have been attracted to, what do you do? What is your practice in calming yourself and moving yourself away from that line of thinking? speaker-1: Well, I get pretty violent. I get pretty violent and I actually got arrested. speaker-0: Yeah, I can tell you're gripping on your jeans again. Wow, you got arrested. So what sort of crime did you commit to be arrested? speaker-1: I punched a hole in the wall. There was this coffee shop I go to and this barista was extremely attractive and I would have loved to have taken them out and really just show them a wonderful time in my former life. They had beautiful, everything about them, their energy, their vibe. I would have loved to have ⁓ gone down on, ⁓ gone downstairs, because I live in a duplex, gone downstairs. speaker-0: I thought we were dipping into something sexual there for a minute, just more geographical going down. I can respect that. Okay, I understand the clarification. speaker-1: Sorry. Yeah, I've gone downstairs and got my backpack and said like, hey, let's go to the speaker-0: Backpack, now we're back to game. You would have said, let's go to the park. OK, so that's something you would have done. speaker-1: but I've learned that like I can't be going to a coffee shop and getting an iced latte because that's inherently gay. So I fought the urge. never went in. I was outside the building and I punched a hole in the speaker-0: ⁓ like the brick wall. So we're not talking about dry wall. We're talking about a brick wall. punched a hole right through and then the police came and arrested you because of that. speaker-1: me because I have a couple DUIs. speaker-0: So are the DUIs from when you were straight or when you were gay? speaker-1: ⁓ from when I turned straight. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: So you've only been straight for six months and you said DUIs so there's multiple. speaker-1: Yeah, I got a couple ⁓ in that span. think just the emotions of dealing with, ⁓ you know, not dealing with my true self of being straight, I started heavily drinking. speaker-0: So dealing with your true self, started drinking heavily. That's funny, because I know earlier you were saying you're only drinking grape juice. And I told you you could drink wine, so do you have something to tell me? You know, I was wondering the way you parked outside, sort of across the street, just your car in middle of the street, little shrug. Okay, so you're drunk? speaker-1: I'm drunk right now. Sorry, I get shy sometimes. And you're shy. speaker-0: The DUIs, those are pretty troubling. then were you drunk when you punched the wall? Yes. And the police picked you up, I imagine when they threw you in the drunk tank to sober up, wait for Gregory to come and pay your bail, you were stinking up that jail cell to high heaven with a mix of pumpkin spice and pride flags. You do seem to be doing well despite the bubbling, roiling rage inside of you, the severe drinking problem. speaker-1: Okay. Absolutely. speaker-0: And course the pegging, we shouldn't forget the pegging, yeah. But it seems like you're really trying hard. Now, you're only six months into your straight journey, five, ten years from now. Are there straight goals that you're hoping for? What do you want to achieve? speaker-1: to get a pair of Skechers Shape-Ups. I want to walk from one end to the other end of the state. Oh! speaker-0: Okay, so your goal in five to ten years on your straight journey is to get a pair of sketches, shape-ups, and walk across the state. Do you have any sketches that think people should look at or should definitely avoid? speaker-1: in the air. Yes, okay, I think you should definitely avoid the tick-tock account at duty cream a lot of sinful behavior gay awareness paraphernalia speaker-0: Do tea, Crane. Do tea. bringing that to our attention. I'll be sure to avoid that. Thank you so much for coming on Conversion Therapy. May you have a blessed and holy day. speaker-1: Thank you so much.