Dave Prior: Hello everyone, welcome to the very first episode of No One Is Coming To Save You, which is how you're supposed to say it, not the way Stuart says it, but Stuart Young is here, my co-author for the book. Thank you for being here, Stuart. And Olivia Vick is our first guest on our brand new podcast, all shiny and ready to go. Stuart, do you want to tell them about the book? Stu: All that's required for this new shiny post is our imperfect selves that will make it a little bit more ⁓ rough on the edges. Yeah, absolutely. One of the key philosophies of this said book is that apparently I can't say it, but no one is coming to save you. Dave Prior: You say it with hope. You have to say it with total despair. Stu: I'm an optimist, Dave. I'm an optimist. And really what this comes down to is that we sort of describe ourselves as a system, a system of work, and we try to strive to be better systems so we can better serve ourselves and others. And that's why we're very lucky to have the one and only Olivia Vick here, because Olivia, you are the unsung hero, because you've not only been the most awesome editor for us grammatically, and you've sort of... really connected with it on so many levels. We talk about power-ups and self-discovery. There's so many things that you've helped us with and that you've connected with. So you're a great place to start. And you are also the track chair at the Agile Alliance where you did your best to herd cats and sort of support us with our voice of doing a talk there. So thank you for being here. Olivia Vick: It is my absolute pleasure and I like to say no one is coming to save you. It's like a motivational, right? You gotta save yourself. Dave Prior: Good. Yeah. Stu: Yes, there we go. Dave Prior: just add a little Gen X like suck it up and just get it done thing on the end and we're all good. Well, if we ever make enough money, I'm gonna hire Liam Neeson to say it like he does in the taken speech, because that's what's in my head whenever I hear it. Yeah. Maybe Liam Neeson will do it for like hundred bucks. Olivia Vick: Is that it? ⁓ no, I'm millennial, I swear. Stu: No, we don't. Olivia Vick: Yaaaas! Stu: Sadly, it's a passion project and we're certainly not rich yet, Dave, just to remind you. I can show you the spreadsheet later. So there's a lot that we'd like to share with you and just to kind of enlighten you again, the core foundation of this is around emotional intelligence. And if any of you aren't familiar with that, it's sort of popularized by Daniel Goleman. And we talk a lot about self-awareness and self-regulation and... Olivia Vick: Mm. ⁓ Stu: social awareness and relationship management. And we also have these things called power-ups, which we think you need to invest in, one being personal kanban. So we're going to explore a little bit about self-discovery and regulation and then personal kanban. And if you don't want me saying, know, Olivia, would you mind introducing yourself a little bit? And then we'll kind of maybe first explore a bit about how you self-discover and self-regulate. So tell us a bit about yourself. Olivia Vick: Yeah, sure. So from a career standpoint, I'm currently a product manager at CyberStar. We're a cybersecurity software product. And ⁓ my real passion, though, has always been in like operations. The way people work specifically is just fascinating. I love it. And so of course, there's a ton of behavioral change, emotional intelligence wrapped up in that. ⁓ Personally, have, you can actually see the pictures, I have a partner and a daughter and two cats at home that I'm now allergic to. It's great, great environment. ⁓ Dave Prior: ⁓ another thing we have in common, two cats and highly allergic to them. Olivia Vick: Yes, yes. It's fast. This is my safe room from them. So they I literally have to lock the door. Otherwise, they open it. And ⁓ yeah, I have a variety of interests. So I meant to talk to Dave about music. But I volleyball regularly. And ⁓ yeah, crafting. ⁓ here, you can even see some of my this is my cross stitching right over here. ⁓ my God, how perfect is this background for this podcast? Dave Prior: Wow. Wow. Stu: That is good. And do you know what? You're showing lots of visual things there, other things that are in the book. But there's another superpower I hope you don't mind me sharing. You've shared, supported me on many, you're more like a life coach. And there's something else that I discovered in the last couple of years and something that you've supported me with. And that is the superpower of neurodiversity. And I wouldn't mind starting there. one thing that I'm not one for labels, but one thing that we both, we're both Olivia Vick: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Stu: on is we both have been clinically diagnosed with ADHD. I would like to start there if you don't mind. So when it comes to self-awareness and self-regulation, why does it matter ⁓ and how do you cope with ADHD? Olivia Vick: Yeah, so ⁓ late life diagnosis for me, I ⁓ didn't find out until last year. I was 34 when I found out. ⁓ honestly, even my therapist who I've been with for 10 years was like, Olivia, you don't have ADHD. I don't think so. ⁓ Because I had developed such like secure coping mechanisms, right? I got through engineering school and mainly the coping mechanism is sleep, to be fair. But ⁓ as a mom, I have been struggling. Stu: you Mm-hmm. Olivia Vick: And as somebody who touts and knows the logical mechanics of emotional regulation and emotional intelligence, I was really frustrated with myself for not being able to emotionally regulate. So actually getting the diagnosis was a lot of people sort of kind of have a grief around it, like, I could have done X, Y, Z. Hey, I am very fortunate. I made it this far without any assistance. But it was a relief to me, right? A relief to not have to recognize that my lack of, my struggle to emotionally regulate is actually literally built into my brain. And getting a little bit of support for that, specifically to make me a better mom. And to really actually be able to do some of these things that I can coach others and talk to logically ⁓ is just, it's freeing. Stu: Yeah. And so, so just to kind of give for those people listening in, you know, we can kind of explain a little bit more about these things because, you know, we, me and Dave, when we were creating the book, we both shared the fact that we both had therapy and we're not saying that everybody needs to go to that depths of extremity to do. Yeah, well, I agree. ⁓ But, you know, ⁓ well, Olivia Vick: Yes, they do. Dave Prior: But if you get a bad therapist, it can do a lot of damage very quickly. Olivia Vick: It's so true. Yep. Yip yip yip. Stu: There is that. So I think that the superpower of having, for me, and we've talked about this ADHD is the superpower of hyper-focus and the things that you get from it. But I think that the interesting thing is, you mentioned this diagnosis being something that happened as an adult, so you've already created hacks. And that's something that me and Dave resonate with is the life hacks that you've created. Olivia Vick: Mm-hmm. Stu: And the regulation, we've mentioned that we've bounced this word regulation around a bit. What regulation is really about is how have you as a mother, as you mentioned, the difficulties in regulating, in being able to work, be a good mom and be of service to yourself and others is super important. And that regulation to Dave is meditation and to me is running. What kind of regulation do you do, Olivia, so that you can be the best version of yourself? Olivia Vick: do I have two things. ⁓ One is meditation developing the practice of being able to ground yourself and like keep in touch with your awareness. ⁓ But that's like the practice that's like when you go to the gym to work out. And so throughout life, ⁓ you're going to need to lift heavy suitcases, right? That's not at the gym, right? I'm not meditating at that point, but I exercise that muscle. So really, my approach to regulation is Creating reminders to help me be intentional and grounded my awareness across the board A really key is ⁓ social media apps, right? So sure I have timers timers are easy ⁓ Most people can set them what I additionally do is I don't have the app icons easily available on my phone So it makes me go through some steps to get to them and those steps trigger the hey, why am I doing this right now? Is this appropriate for me? Or is it maybe trying to cure something else? ⁓ And so really just helps me set that intention. I have several examples of doing that throughout, but that's probably the most ⁓ accessible one for folks. Dave Prior: The fact that you're even asking that question like is this something I need to do like that you're aware to even think about it is awesome Because I think most people doesn't even occur to them like ⁓ my phone's in my hand again I wonder why you know because I had three seconds where I was idle and I can't handle that Olivia Vick: Yeah. Yeah. Right? Well that- Right? I actually, have a smartwatch, but it's so I only get the emergency messages to my smartwatch. I can leave my phone anywhere in the house and I can be safe in knowing that whatever I need will alert me. Right? So that actually lets me put the phone away. ⁓ And as you can imagine, or maybe not, my current therapy is working on how the fact that I'm overthinking things. Stu: Yeah. Dave Prior: I am very in touch with that one. Olivia Vick: Yeah! Stu: I I actually, I say that I wake up with anxiety. Dave seems to say that he picks anxiety up throughout the day, but my alarm clock is anxiety. And that isn't a great place to be, but that, I'm never late. You know, yeah. Olivia Vick: you Dave Prior: Yeah. Olivia Vick: Yeah, I used to be like that. Stu: So this is the But again, so it kind of bounces off each other, this self, you're self aware about what you need to do to regulate. that's, so I think that for me, the neurodiversity is almost accelerated that self awareness that you've accomplished. And the quote from Simon Sinek, who was also, ⁓ who also diagnosed as an adult, was it already created hacks. And I love this quote, I use it on so many calls and I use it whenever I'm training, is take strengths and weakness off the table and consider attributes and characteristics. And that really resonates with me. So I think that's what we're talking about is how it's not Dave the trainer or Olivia, the product manager, it's Olivia who is Olivia. And how do you rock up and be Olivia as the best in the best way you can be. Dave Prior: Can I add one thing? Because it goes, when you were just saying it, what connected for me was it goes all the way back to the art of war, I'm a big fan of. Sometimes you're strong and sometimes you're weak, but that's always just in relationship to other stuff. And as long as you know where you are, Olivia Vick: in the moment. Dave Prior: and the state that you're in, you can use that to your advantage. So a lot of people, like you said, might take getting diagnosed as like a point of like sadness or whatever, but just knowing that you can leverage it and use it in a lot of different ways. So there's self-regulation, but also understanding what's going on around you and your position within that system and how those things can come together to create the outcome you're looking for. Olivia Vick: I went through, like up until December of last year, my big thing was suffering. Like I hate suffering. I'm good with pain. Pain is like that initial moment feeling and like it's acceptable, right? But me not being able to tolerate a situation for a long period of time, like that's me suffering. And I worked with my therapist and I'm like, how do I not suffer anymore? And she was like, well, Olivia, the opposite of suffering is acceptance. Stu: Wow. Olivia Vick: So accepting, hey, this is the world. And turning that inward, to your point of, hey, I accept. I accept that this is my best in this moment, or I accept that these are my weaknesses for now, if I'm sprinkling in a little bit of dialectical behavioral therapy, ⁓ these are my strengths. Accepting without judgment, ⁓ I think, is the unlock that I've been exploring more and more for the past couple years, really. Dave Prior: Yeah. Stu: So that may be an opportunity. We can bounce back to this, but I think that's a nice segue. So some of the power-ups that we design, and power-ups for us are those things that we think will support you in your personal professional life, such as dealing with change, kind of resonate quite, connects well mostly with acceptance, but also is personal Kanban. Dave, do you want to talk a bit more about that? Dave Prior: Sure, I'll try to. couch it in a way that leads towards the conversation we're going to try to have. So personal Kanban is, it was invented by Jim Benson and Tony Andy Murray, and it is a way of managing the stuff you have to do. It's a way of visualizing your work, limiting your work in process. I would say learning from the things that you're doing is one of the most important parts. A lot of people like me come to it just because you're trying to figure out a better way to get a handle on your to-do list, all the stuff you have to do throughout the day. And it applies a lot of the practices of Kanban to you manage your own work. And it is a great place to get started, to understand all the things you have on your plate, how you want to organize them, how you can limit the number of things you're trying to do at once. But I think when you stick with it, it kind of gets into the area that we focus on in the book, which is you start to learn more about yourself as a system and you learn how to run experiments to test different things out so that you can optimize the way that you approach things you're doing so you can show up and be of service to other people. And so that's kind of where we're going to kind of, I think, start out with Olivia is like experiments that you've run, some of the things you've learned. The one thing I just want to add before we get into it, there's a person ⁓ that I took a class with who has a post-it on her board, her Kanban board, that says, Dear Kanban, how are you lying to me? And I think that opened this whole world to me where Stu: Yeah Dave Prior: When I look at my board, it's like I'm having a conversation with my work. I'm not just moving cards. I'm like, okay, why are you still in that column? You've been in there a really long time and the card's looking back at me going, I'm here because you suck and you haven't done anything about me yet. And you get into these ways of like trying to figure out why is that there? What am I going to do about that? What's causing that? And it's like that whole root cause thing that helps you understand yourself better. And that helps you be better when you show up for other people. Olivia Vick: Yeah, mean, I think, so you mentioned I was so fortunate to be able to preview your book and personal Kanban was one of the things where was like, huh, you know, like, I should experiment with this. And so I did, right? I really like to have things kind of portable. And so my very first like Kanban, and I like to draw a lot. Dave Prior: So. Stu: I'm back, relax. Olivia Vick: was actually like threefold. So here's my starting point, right? So you have the traditional like doing and done, but rather than just like a broad to do, I made a prioritization matrix, right? And I made it based on joy versus like, man, this is, nah, not gonna give me joy, right? ⁓ And hey, is it urgent or is this something I can wait on? And it, this is, yeah, yeah. Dave Prior: So it's sort of Eisenhower-y a little bit. Olivia Vick: Well, and so I attended your talk then, right? Even after reading the book, it was actually that quote that you just mentioned, or what is my compound trying to tell me? What is the conversation my compound's trying to have? And I was reflecting in that moment, in your session at the Agile 2025 conference, and I was like, oh, all these post-its are all on the turtle side, right? They're all the, I don't have any sense of urgency. Talk about signals that you might have ADHD, right? I don't have the motivation, because it's not urgent. It's not urgent, it's not there. Dave Prior: Yeah. Olivia Vick: So immediately I was like, huh, how do I fix that? Right? What are the, what, or do I have to fix it? Ooh, two great questions. ⁓ So what I did was I looked, like, what are the things over in this longer term and why are they in the longer term? ⁓ And again, combined with that knowledge of, I really do think it's important not just to have the awareness that like I have, or I am the writer versions, or I have ADHD, knowing some of the tendencies and how it manifests. Dave Prior: Well, do you have to fix it? Stu: haha Olivia Vick: gives you the unlocks, right? So it helps me recognize, ⁓ all of these things that are in this long thing are because they're really big. If I break them up into smaller chunks, is that helpful? So I now have a three page spread, okay? Here's the new first page where a couple of things, one, I'm waiting, because there are plenty of things right now it's, ⁓ schedule window cleaning. Dave Prior: Wow. Olivia Vick: Yes, this is a to-do list thing. I know I need to do it, but I'm not doing it till spring because we got fresh vegetables and I don't want them to get all the runoff. ⁓ Hey, I know I need to do that. I don't want to forget it. Anxiety says goodbye because I have been waiting. But then I created this breakdown section. So I have that big thing that used to be a big post-it hanging out in the long-term side, and I created myself some mini steps. What are the steps to do that and break it down? ⁓ And then... Stu: Yeah. Dave Prior: ⁓ wow, okay. Olivia Vick: So then I just take one step at a time to prioritize. And this is where I haven't done color coding yet or anything like that, but you can see there's a little bit more balance. ⁓ And I still have that same prioritization matrix, and I still have the doing and the done. I also have a plan, because I think one of the keys is making sure you're limiting your whip. Dave Prior: That is cool. Yeah. Olivia Vick: But if I know that this is coming up and it's a scheduled time, again, it's that relief, hey, I don't have to worry about it. I have it on my list. I will return to it. In this case right now, it's I gotta buy birthday presents for three different girls' birthday parties, and I know I'm doing it on Saturday. ⁓ So it kind of helps me clear up for what I'm going to, like what can I be doing? So reinforcing the whip without necessarily leaving things go. ⁓ But you mentioned, so ⁓ prior to starting the podcast, Dave's giving me a peek at what he's doing. And really, I'm a couple steps behind you in your Kanban journey, which is great. ⁓ My next step, was already reflecting and mentioning, hey, we need, I need some, I was thinking about color coding in terms of ⁓ learning or joy. Like, hey, what am I gonna learn for this? Do I need to reflect on this? So that my done isn't just like a. a smorgasbord, it can help me categorize and reflect a little bit better. ⁓ So yeah, that's gonna be my next iteration. ⁓ And as you can tell, I'm having fun with it. Yeah. Dave Prior: Can I ask you question about joy? So do you think of the joy, when I started to go down that route, one of the things that I ended up with is there's stuff that the joy is in the anticipation of the thing. There's stuff that the joy is in the doing of the thing. And then there's other stuff like the cat litter that the joy is in. Thank God that's freaking done. Olivia Vick: Mm. Mm-hmm. ooohoo, yeah Dave Prior: Like there's people you have to talk to on the phone that you do the call just so that you can be done with the call for like two weeks, ⁓ stuff like that. where do you, like where's the point in time at which you kind of measure the joy? Or is it all mixed together? Olivia Vick: Yeah. So I specifically focus on the act of doing it when it comes to, and it kind of depends on what kind of activity it is, right? Most of my creative pursuits or something like that, it's like the act of doing it. That's what's bringing me joy. But there are some things where it's like, hey, this needs to be done. I'm going to enjoy when it's done. But again, those are more of the optional things. So my Dave Prior: Okay. Olivia Vick: So I would frame them as, ⁓ do I need to do this or do I not actually need? It's just like an optional, right? An example right now is like the cushions on my like dining room chairs need to be reupholstered, right? That's something that I can do and it's something that I will enjoy once it's done and it does require a little creativity. ⁓ And so, you know, that one is on my joy list. But if it's something like, let me look at my non-joy. Stu: Mm-hmm. Olivia Vick: ⁓ yeah, scheduling, you mentioned scheduling. Scheduling or putting stuff up, cleaning my indoor windows. There's a sense of accomplishment. ⁓ So maybe it's the activation energy almost. Dave Prior: Okay. Cool. Stu: So if you sort of wrap this up, so again, not the whole thing, but just the kind of looking at Kanban and the learnings, we've jumped to the personal Kanban and how you manage your time or how you manage the things that spark joy. We've also talked about self-awareness and we've talked about regulation. So for anyone listening in, do you think that this skill, this... the investment of time in understanding how to manage your time effectively. Do you think it's quite universal and you can see how it would support you with your personal and professional work? Olivia Vick: I mean, that's like, that's a no brainer. Yes. ⁓ And here's the great thing about your book is immediately my mind was like, well, as long as you go into it with the right mindset. And I think that's what your book really accomplishes is it gives you tips on the mindset you're approaching this time and work management with. Right. ⁓ An example would be, think I have a friend who's an artist, like just just a purely creative person. And she's talking to me she's like, Olivia, I've just been so focused on my garden and I go out there and I do everything and I know there's these other projects, it's a painting, right, that I should be doing. And I was like, put a pin in it, should be. What does should actually mean? Do you have to do it? Right? Like, is it something that like is commissioned and you have a due date? Or are you just guilting yourself because you think of yourself in one way, but that's not actually the case. ⁓ Dave Prior: Yeah. I think that's really important because there's joy, but there's also a negative weight that comes with not doing some stuff or doing some stuff. And the longer the painting sits, the more strength it has, the more taxing it can become. Olivia Vick: Yeah! Stu: Thank you. Olivia Vick: Mm-hmm. Well, and there's two things that come to mind, because I was reflecting on just this earlier today. ⁓ One is, and I think it was Stephen King, but I think he also had a quote about ⁓ like reading, helping your writing. But like, the only way to get better at writing is writing. You know, so I think a lot of us think like, there's some divine inspiration, ⁓ or like, inspiration comes in all forms. Dave Prior: think for him it was just bags of coke. Olivia Vick: ⁓ But yeah, people think, ⁓ I'm waiting for, I'm just waiting for the creativity bug to hit. And it's like, no, sometimes you have to smash down the door to get to the point where you think you should be or where you want to be. ⁓ And now I'm gonna forget my second point because it's time for me to take my stimulant. ⁓ But, it's all right. It has been incredibly helpful. ⁓ So the second piece is, ⁓ Dave Prior: You Yeah. Stu: ⁓ Self-regulation. Olivia Vick: Yoda. Do or do not. There is no try. If I go back to acceptance, I either need to like look at it and say, you know what, I'm either going to carve out time and do it, or I really need to grieve, like let it go and grieve and like that's okay and accept it. ⁓ So that's that's the other thing around like hey, Dave Prior: Yeah. Stu: it. Dave Prior: That's a hard thing to learn to do. I've been struggling with that for 20 years. My wife has never had a problem with it. She just picks a thing and does it. She doesn't care about anything else. Stu: It's interesting. Olivia Vick: I mean, I have a closet full in this room of all of the like, well, I'll save this because this could be used for XYZ crafts. Luckily, I have the space just to push it in a closet. Stu: There you go. Dave Prior: So I want to add one thing about why this stuff is important. The very first thing that I learned from personal kanban I had a coach, Brian Bezudo. and he had me do some activities that showed me that when I planned my day, I planned all the work, like all the stuff that was like the grinding it out stuff, and I saved all the self-maintenance stuff like meditation, playing my guitar, things like that, for late at night, which meant I almost never got to those things, and when I did, there wasn't enough of me left to get any value out of it. And what I learned was that if I spread those things throughout the course of the day, I'm able to get a lot more done throughout the course of the day because I'm not taking breaks, I'm still doing stuff, but I'm doing stuff that fuels me instead of depletes me. And I think if anybody's like bristling at the idea of like, joy, it's work, I don't need joy, well, you do actually, because it's like food. It's important. Olivia Vick: this so much. And I think you actually might have mentioned a little bit about this in your book, because it's ringing some bells. two things that I've changed recently. One is, I was getting really like, I can very easily be convinced of like the urgency at work, right? So my shoulders come up, and I'm like, ooh, and I'm feeling the urgency. So I actually forced myself to meditate, to and for me, it was focusing on putting things into perspective, like work is not life. Stu: Mm-hmm. Olivia Vick: I mean, I know like we like to have importance because there's motivation in that sense. ⁓ But like, if the thing doesn't get done today, like most careers, you're gonna be okay. So I forced myself to take that 10 minutes before starting. And the second one actually deals with ⁓ insulin. So more recent studies have shown, they're specifically done on men because, know, we are who we are. ⁓ But it was, ⁓ Stu: Yep. Olivia Vick: the most effective exercise you could do if you're at like a sit at your desk type of environment job is 10 squats every 45 minutes. They tested that against taking a five minute walk and they tested against taking one 30 minute walk. ⁓ And I've actually heard similar advice. I have a little bit of just a tad bit of insulin resistance. ⁓ And so like glucose management and that sort of thing is really important. ⁓ It's because ⁓ Stu: you Dave Prior: Wow. Stu: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Olivia Vick: a lot of like the processing for insulin is in your muscles. And so activating like one of your biggest muscle groups by doing just 10 squats. So yeah, me and my coworkers now have a Slack channel every hour. Stu: I love that. Dave Prior: I'm gonna try that, I'm gonna try that. That's awesome. And I just got one of these just to test, to track my blood sugar, just to try to learn more about it. Stu: I'm standing. Olivia Vick: Yeah, well, let me know. Stu: There's a lot to be said. The impulsivity that you talk about, again, that's something that I'm known for doing. And I think that... Dave Prior: Yeah. No. Stu: the energy, regulating your energy levels. You know, I'm quite a wide, wide in wide disposition, as you both know. And, and also you can get a level of emotional dysregulation as well. And that comes with me being me. And I think that working virtually, it's even harder to kind of manage a lot of those behaviors. So a lot of the stuff that we've talked about to some people listening in, they might think they're just jumping all over the shop, but it all interconnects your self-awareness, how you regulate. how you're and what you say about like the things that you those sent the sense of urgency and how you can manage that by knowing more about yourself as a system and and how you manage your time effectively and learn because you're right I always joke that my worry box will fill up straight away and I have to remind myself in that moment that is this problem life and death because I sometimes feel like I'm in constant fight or flight Dave Prior: Yeah. Olivia Vick: Mm-hmm. Stu: And it's a good experiment just for those to listen in. I didn't get much sleep last night. have a very busy day. So, you know, it's all of the little things that we know, we're aware of how we are, what energy levels we need. So just sort of on that focus of bouncing around, we in the book, we talk about the things that we think are quite universal, such as learning how to focus something squirrel I struggle with sometimes. Hyper focus is actually Olivia Vick: Yeah. ⁓ Stu: very good with ADHD, but sometimes if you've got lots of things going on, it could be the opposite. So interesting to see how you and Dave talk about personal Kanban. We talk about being your authentic self and critical thinking. To put you on the spot, what other things do you do, Olivia, that like, I don't know, what universal things do you think help you in your day-to-day life? Olivia Vick: ⁓ ⁓ I do think it helps. Yeah, well, okay. So I mentioned this book and I have a copy here. It's one of like my favorite books. It was recommended to me by a mentor, ⁓ The Untethered Soul by ⁓ Michael A. Singer. And you can see ⁓ I'm only halfway through. ⁓ maybe you can't see because the lighting in here is so far. ⁓ I'm only halfway through and I've been reading this book for like five years. I give a talk. My talk at... Stu: Throw that at you. ⁓ Wow. Olivia Vick: The 2024 conference was around untethering, but it's so deep, right? And so a few key things that you mentioned there, ⁓ one is the sense of urgency, ⁓ but also, hey, what do you do for your outer, right? Like conditioning your environment to help create this ⁓ regulation. ⁓ And what the chapter I literally stopped at, because I really didn't like it. I wasn't ready for it. ⁓ Dave Prior: ⁓ that's good. Stu: you. Olivia Vick: just now going into it in therapy actually, ⁓ was it basically makes the point that like for true growth, you can't continue avoiding the pain and altering your environment so that you don't have to experience the pain is just avoiding the pain. So essentially it's saying, hey, you got to do the inner work so that you can handle any situation versus ⁓ Alter it versus it's almost a versus like self-awareness. It's like I'm gonna choose this versus that You know, I'm gonna for me ⁓ the key moments right now are like going into like parenting situations whether like a lot of kids a lot of other parents and like me and my child and like it puts my whole system on high alert like hunter mode ⁓ and Like I can't just avoid that environment right like Dave Prior: Yeah. Olivia Vick: If I want to be present for my daughter or whatever I value, I can't just avoid that. ⁓ So I'm doing the inner work right now. ⁓ So right now actually, it's the first time I've done internal family systems, which is systems thinking. And it's kind of very much like Inside Out, if you've seen that movie, where you kind of identify the different parts you have operating and how they're interacting with each other and dig a little bit deeper. Stu: Thank That's how we are. Olivia Vick: And a lot of times it's coupled with some like trauma therapy because a lot of times the way it gets out of whack is from some trauma. yeah, it's been really helpful. ⁓ one of my doctors today was like, you know, it's like when you first take off the knee brace and you're still weak, but you know you need to exercise the muscle in order to heal. Otherwise you will maintain that injury forever. ⁓ So that's the thing that I'm working on right now. Stu: you Olivia Vick: The concept of untethering is the fact that you need to sit in your awareness without judgment to be able to respond authentically to the situation. Because if you're not in your awareness, then you're leaning on your perception with ADHD that comes ⁓ rejection sensitivity dysphoria, which is going to skew everything. And you're not going to be able to actually interact with people in a way that's more grounded in a shared experience, authenticity. Stu: I knew that the... Yeah, no, I knew that the... Dave Prior: Do you? Olivia Vick: Should I step off a soap box right now? Sorry. Okay. Stu: when Dave and me were like, now that we've got the book done, what are we going to do now and what are going to do next? And we thought, well, look, it would be really good to speak to people about how they see themselves as a system and how they show up. And I knew that this first interview with you would be good, it was better than I could ever have imagined. you are such a strong advocate for emotional awareness and emotional intelligence and understanding how you can best serve to yourself to support others. So I really can't thank you enough. It's been brilliant. Olivia Vick: I'm psyched to be here. Sorry, Dave, you were saying something and I was like, okay, shut up a little bit. Yeah. Dave Prior: I have a question. Yeah, when you're kind of stuck in the perception thing, are you able to become aware of the fact that you're in a perception, like the story that you're telling yourself is the story that you're telling yourself. It's not necessarily what's actually happening. And if you can get to that, does that help at all? Olivia Vick: It really does help. ⁓ And where I'm stuck and why I'm sort of engaging in this new therapy is I still feel the physical responses. So like mentally I'm like, ooh, this is what's happening. But physically I'm like, know, tensing or I feel like, you know, hard to breathe or whatever. And sometimes then that, you know, that fuels the cycle. Dave Prior: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if, I mean I have that too, I always, the physical stuff, I try to use it as fuel, like I don't know if that, I mean maybe that does go away for some people, I don't know. Olivia Vick: think it's like a good, it's a good, a lot of times it's like, oh, you need to do some aerobic exercise, right? Like you need to run or like get your heart rate up and do that. And I think that is like a really good way to self-regulate and manage in those moments. And I think that sometimes that's not accessible or possible or like, I think we trick ourselves into thinking it's not. I was for a long time, it was like all or nothing, right? Dave Prior: something, yeah. Olivia Vick: So I would like feel the feelings and be like, ⁓ I'm doing this. I need to disengage. And I would just like peace out for the full day. Did I need the full day? No, I probably needed 20 minutes or something like that. So ⁓ that's. Stu: Yeah. Dave Prior: Yeah. Stu: You've already done this by far with all your advice. You've by far given so much advice. But just to wrap this up, because it's been fun. Oh, are you not? Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Dave Prior: Wait, I'm not done! No! Olivia Vick: I know. Dave Prior: I want to ask a question about the meditation thing. So you said that that was, you had to force yourself to do it. And ⁓ especially for people that are starting, like even five minutes is like the longest five minutes of their life. It's really, really difficult. And for me, I sit for a half an hour every day and it's the hardest half hour of the whole day, but it's also the most important half hour of the whole day. Stu: ⁓ Olivia Vick: ⁓ yeah. Dave Prior: Is that ⁓ activity that you would like put in the joy column or in the not? Cause you said you have to force yourself to do it. It's hard. Olivia Vick: 100 percent. So the trick, the trick that I have is, ⁓ aside from the personal kanban, ⁓ every night before bed, ⁓ I make a to do list of what I'm going to do with my morning time before I start work. Because here's the trend with mornings. I'm not a fan of morning routine, because a lot of times then you get into a grind and you're not being as intentional about it. I know that's a secret for lot of people. And I think there's a structure to it that I adhere to, but it's not necessarily a routine. ⁓ And so a lot of times it's really easy to wake up and be like, I'm not feeling it. I'm just going to like read while my daughter eats breakfast or, basically like get myself into a ⁓ high inertia state. ⁓ And so what I do is it's literally like shower if I need to shower, right? It's ⁓ a, you know, brush my teeth. But meditate is always on there. Dave Prior: Yeah. Olivia Vick: And it's like a commitment that I make to myself at the end of the day to do. ⁓ my God, no. And here, like she, if she does not get to wake me up, she's pissed. So, and I know this is one of those things where like Olivia be a parent, you know, make her get used to you waking up before her or wake up her dad. But like, hey, I only got her for so long. yeah, it's, meditate is always on my list. And then I always find like one other thing to do within that that I, Dave Prior: Which is not easy if you're a mom of a small child. Olivia Vick: is either off my con bon or like would bring me joy. So right now it's making biscuits weekly. I make my homemade biscuits, I freeze the dough. And so that every morning I have an oven fresh biscuit for breakfast. ⁓ like, right? Yeah. And I will really quickly plug the app that I use. I know there's Calm, there's Headspace and I've used both of those and they're fine, but they are behind paid subscriptions. Dave Prior: That's nice. Olivia Vick: So ⁓ just to let people know, this is actually one that my new therapist recommended. It's just called Insight Timer. Dave Prior: ⁓ wow, you're on there too, I didn't know that, I'll have to find you. Bunch of us on there. Olivia Vick: Yeah? Yeah, it's so like there's so much free, really good like Tara Brock, good content, right? Dave Prior: And the people that put stuff up there, find it's also really good for my self-esteem to go watch some of their live streams. Olivia Vick: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, highly recommend Insight Timer. Most of the content is free that I found. And they do have challenges. They do have some things to encourage you to keep the streak going or something. But that we're maybe a little bit too much into the commitment for me right now. Yeah. But I know I... Yes. I was gonna suggest, go ahead. Dave Prior: Cool. So I mean, I think we should do more of these too. I know Stuart wanted to wrap us up, but. Stu: I mean, that's what I was... Yeah, I think you need to be with us whilst we interview others. And as I say, I wanted to kind of converge with... But you've already done it on so many levels. if people... It's a kind of a call to action for people. If people are facing a new job or they're facing unprecedented change, as you say, they may be facing a trauma, whether it be personal life or work. They could be stressed because they're out of work or they're overworked. What would be your, ⁓ of all the things you've said, what kind of advice would you give them? Olivia Vick: Okay, so I have two pieces. This is actually, if I ever become a keynote speaker, these are the two pieces of my keynote, just so you guys know. ⁓ The first is untethering, but what that really means is I think a lot of the stress or perceived judgment that we have in whatever situations that we have, and I've done this with mentoring circles, especially with communication. Have people join this communication mentoring circle? They come and they say, I'm not sounding smart enough, or I'm not, you know, whatever. And like, so my advice or the coaching that I give to start the path to untathering is when you're in the interaction, I want you to like float above your physical self. Now, this is not depersonalization, that's a separate issue. So, you know, please be aware, but float above yourself and observe, actually watch the people, treat it as an experiment. Look explicitly for signals that you are not either ⁓ like... sounding like an expert or whatever your fear is. It's a kind of cognitive behavioral therapy, but a little bit more in the moment and that first step. Just go into that interaction and be a higher self, be a higher self just for that interaction. And I will bet you 99 % of the time you're gonna learn, ⁓ there actually are no signals that this is happening, especially within the interaction. So that's my first one. Stu: Wow, that's interesting. Dave Prior: Wow. Olivia Vick: The first step towards untethering. The second part, ⁓ which I'm kind of putting together right now, is really taking agency. I think a lot of the stress in our lives comes because ⁓ we feel like we're passengers. I referenced it earlier, do or do not, there is no try. ⁓ There's a lot of ways that we, I frame it as like wait for permission. Hey, I'm waiting for the right time, I'm waiting to make more time, I'm waiting for this person to say so, X, Y, Z. ⁓ And that gives you this perception that like you don't have a choice and how fun does that feel, right? ⁓ So taking agency, it's scary because it implies accountability, right? You then you got to stand up for whatever you're taking agency with, but it also is empowering. ⁓ And it gives you that level of acceptance essentially that, you know, I'm learning. So those are, those are my two steps. Stu: There's so much to take away from all of this. Dave Prior: That was great. Stu: You've reminded me as well of something, another thing that people might want to go and look into, which is the scarf model by David Rock, which is, which, you know, is based on that, those, those interactions or that moment of, know, with others, sometimes you can leave feeling threatened or rewarded in that sort of fight or flight. And, and of course, some of that is down to the behaviors of others and whether they're in that adult ego state or parent ego state, wherever it may be, but there's a lot on you as well. And I'll take, I'll take away some of that as well. Olivia Vick: Yeah. Stu: self-responsibility again, that you can't blame external factors on how you're feeling. You need to know how best to internalize that and sense. I'll take away something from that. So thank you very much. Olivia Vick: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I know we're wrapping this up. So those are my two gifts. And the only thing I would say for others what three things probably I don't know. I very much appreciate both of you and your book. I mentioned the book in a second. That is my last thing that I will wrap up on because I know I know the game. Um, I very much appreciate this. I would love to be back for whatever my joke was going to be like, once you figure this out, I'll be back for the 100th episode. Okay. Um, Stu: Hey. ⁓ good. Yeah. He's there. He would say it right, wouldn't he? He'd say, no one is coming to save you. If I find you. Yeah. OK. Olivia Vick: with Liam Neeson as guest, if you could. ⁓ know? But the... Yes! Dave Prior: No. Exactly. You're going to get taken. No one is coming to save you. Olivia Vick: So take control, take, so yes, ⁓ when I first got the email, I think it was from Chris Merman, hey, Dave and Stu, they have this book, they have this session they wanna do, and I read the title and I was like, career power-ups, and was like, and I just, the only remaining criticism I have is that like, these are life power-ups, right? Like yes, they will help you in your career. But this book is so much more than the next, ⁓ hey, here are the five skills you need in the workplace this year. Like it is significant and it is similar to this book I'm reading now. You could read a chapter and need to work on that for six months before moving on to the next. So just, it's fantastic and ⁓ I can't wait for my signed. Dave Prior: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, I can't wait for those either. Stuart. Stu: Thank you. Thank you. And you just realised the hat. The hat. Yeah, I know. Well, I'm trying. Olivia Vick: hahahaha Dave Prior: And we can put that on the president and the tariffs. Yeah. Stu: Yes, you will get your book. You will get your book. It is on its way slowly. ⁓ But there we go. And thank you very, very much. Thank you. You have been an absolute legend. Much appreciated. Dave Prior: Thank you, Olivia. Olivia Vick: Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Dave Prior: This was great. Great first episode.