Alyson Baxter: Okay, I'm gonna do you wanna do and you want me to do it? Okay. Michael Kumpula: ⁓ you do it, just start it and then toss it whenever you want me talk. Alyson Baxter: welcome to our first episode of Passing Down Pride. We're so excited to be here. ⁓ am one of your hosts, Aly and I'm here with my dad, Mike. Michael Kumpula: I am one of your hosts as well, but let's face it, Ali is driving this. She's my oldest, I have three children, and she has watched me live through torturous Lions seasons. And recently has joined in the all in group ⁓ Detroit Lions fans. And it thrills me to no end to be able to do this with you. Alyson Baxter: I'm so excited to be here. We decided to start passing down Pride largely because we wanted to focus on not just what was happening in the games on a weekly basis, in the draft that happened recently, but we also wanted to talk through what being a generational Lions fan feels like and looks like, how you talk through what happened 10 seasons ago with an entirely different team and how it compares to what's happening today. Michael Kumpula: you Alyson Baxter: ⁓ So we come from two very different perspectives. I'm a relatively new Lions fan. I've been a Lions fan for about three years and my dad has been a lifelong Lions fan coming from upper Michigan. Tell us, tell the world how long you've been a Lions fan, Mike. Michael Kumpula: I have been a Lions fan since the age of seven or eight. all Lions fans ⁓ are codified in the fire. And when you're surrounded by Packer fans, you are definitely in the fire. You got two choices. You become a Lions fan and you double down, ⁓ or you join the and become a Packer fan. ⁓ became a Double Down Lions fan. Alyson Baxter: think I read somewhere that the majority of people that live in the Upper Peninsula are Packers fans. a fan since 70s feels lifelong ⁓ compared to me as a new fan. Michael Kumpula: Yes. I'm a lifelong Lions fan and you just briefly talked about being a recent Lions fan. Tell me what happened and why you're a Lions fan now and you're kind of your, your move from those people who don't know you. ⁓ we would have conversations about sports and you would just be totally disinterested. We look at you and you'd go sports. ⁓ Now ⁓ you can't have a conversation. ⁓ There are many conversations we're having where you know more about Brian Branch's impact on our defense than I do. What happened and when did that happen and why? Alyson Baxter: That's a really good question. growing up coming into a home where two favorite sports teams were the Detroit Lions and then the Chicago Cubs ⁓ in ⁓ the 90s and early 2000s was... Michael Kumpula: If that got out, people would be like, what are you doing to your children? Alyson Baxter: It was pretty painful because both teams were just comically bad, ⁓ And the sound of my childhood during the NFL season was, next year's our year. Michael Kumpula: It is brutal. historically ⁓ For both of them, yes. NFL and baseball. Alyson Baxter: Yes. And baseball. I think I always loved going to live games, watching it on TV just wasn't super interesting to me. And then it was three years ago when the Lions went to the playoffs for the first time in a very, very long time. And they won the first game. And my brother, said, Michael Kumpula: Yes. Alyson Baxter: I think you should watch the next game. because I think you'll enjoy it. So I watched the next game alone, because although my brother said that we should watch the next game, he said, but not together, because I'm too stressed. So I watched it alone. I think that was probably every Lions fan at the time was like, okay, this is happening, but we're so overwhelmed. And we're so scared. Michael Kumpula: That sounds right. Yeah. Alyson Baxter: that we would like to be alone while we watch this game. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. It reminds me just on a side note of because this goes both ways, right? Reminds me of living in Houston and the Cubs against the Cleveland in the World Series. when they tied, when Cleveland tied the game with a home run. Your mother stood up and said that's it We're going to bed now mind you the game's still going on and we're not behind It's just tied but she couldn't watch it anymore And then ⁓ your sister got us up said that the Cubs ⁓ have went ahead So we literally got up to watch the rest of that game and when the Cubs won I think the third base man I forget his name now threw it ⁓ picked up a grounder ⁓ and they're screaming the Cubs won I looked around for your mother and she was behind the couch with her hands like this clenched, like no enjoyment. It was just pure relief. So that is kind of how Lions fans were watching ⁓ the playoff games as well. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, it's, and I think as an observer growing up, I thought, wow, that's a lot of stress. Michael Kumpula: Yeah, I get that. Alyson Baxter: that I don't wanna be a part of. So I watched the next game and then I watched the game that ⁓ we lost to, ⁓ who did we lose to? The 49ers, that's right. And that was a hard game to watch, because we were doing so well and then it sort of fell apart at the end. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: 49ers. Up 24 7 and a half. Yeah, the tale of two halves. Alyson Baxter: But I ended up watching where we beat the Rams and then I watched the game where we lost to the 49ers. And then my brother me down and had me watch ⁓ I think a 30 minute video and then a a bunch of corresponding videos on what impact Dan Campbell and his coaching team have had on the Lions. And he started with Sheila Ford taking over, and then he gave me a history lesson of what has happened since. And going from not really knowing a lot about sports to getting a history lesson on all of these individuals and hearing about the impact that they had on the team. Michael Kumpula: Yes. Alyson Baxter: I think I watched the entire game as part of that history lesson where the Lions beat the Vikings They had like an 11 game losing streak and then they beat the Vikings. And Jared Goff hugged Dan Campbell. It was so lovely. It's hard not to be a fan when you get that deep story, that deep history. And from then on, I was in. Michael Kumpula: Yep. Alyson Baxter: Like I was a committed fan to not just the Lions, but also these individual people who became so critical in the success of the team. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. And then there's that ⁓ backstory of Sheila Fordham trying to get the NFL. But even ⁓ with power her father, ⁓ they couldn't, you know, getting a woman to break the NFL. It was almost impossible. And it wasn't until recently that she was able to step into ownership. the way Dan Campbell credits her for the way this organization is run now. And I do too. We've had many, many great coaches who had great success elsewhere and came to the Detroit Lions and their careers almost died. It was like... You, once you coach at the Lions, you can't go and coach anywhere else. And, uh, it was, it was almost like a death sentence. And now it is a destination for young coaches to come and be part of Dan Campbell's team. You can, you can, everybody can say Dan Campbell, Dan Campbell, Dan Campbell. Yeah, I get it. Um, and Brad Holmes, Brad Holmes, Brad Holmes. get it. You can't do it without great coaching and great personnel. However, the culture was set by Sheila Forte. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, I agree. Side note, did you watch the most recent ⁓ episode of... behind the den. Did you watch the most recent episode? Did you see Brad Holmes giving a quick little, this is what I think about these players while he had a fire playing on his computer screen? ⁓ Michael Kumpula: Mm-hmm. I think so. Remind me. ⁓ yeah, One of the screens was a fake fireplace. The other screen wasn't a fake fireplace. I don't know for sure how you do that, but that's pretty cool. Alyson Baxter: He wanted the ambiance while he was going through tape. Michael Kumpula: Or I'm ⁓ wondering if that is like a ⁓ zen moment where he needs to find ways to escape his own mind. I was thinking, should I try that? There are moments when I feel like I'm creating stress as opposed to stress happening to me. Alyson Baxter: I think that it, first of all, I found it very comical and I love that your response was, maybe I should do that. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. Like always looking for ways to improve. Right. Here's a guy who's been part of the attorney to different lines where on I could learn from him. Yeah. That's like a Zen escape. mean. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, you're like, there must be something to this. I think that this is good idea. I'm obsessed. Yeah, I really liked the behind the den with the new traded players. I thought that that was really great. Yeah, I thought that was a great story. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. Yep. Yep. So the next thing you asked was what I'm most excited about. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Michael Kumpula: what I'm most excited about ⁓ is our offensive line. Alyson Baxter: Ooh, okay, tell me more. Michael Kumpula: in every season a Lions fan, we always hung our hat on players. ⁓ Matthew Stafford, Calvin Barry Sanders, ⁓ These were, ⁓ Chris Spielman, were players that you felt like, ⁓ we've got these, I would name these players, right? But we never had an identity. We never, ⁓ in all of years of being a Lions fan, Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Michael Kumpula: Until Dan Campbell, we never had an identity. We had good defenses, We had good offenses, I mean good because of the players, right? Even the years when we won the first playoff game against the Cowboys, it was ⁓ really all around Barry Sanders. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Do you wonder, ⁓ are sports where you can have one major player, right? Where you have a player that just outperforms and outshines everyone else and they can really carry the team. I wonder if that's much more difficult in the NFL because of the way the entire, you can have an excellent quarterback, but if you have a, bad O line. Frankly, if you have a bad right tackle, that's enough of a hole that your quarterback doesn't have any time anymore in order to throw the ball. Everything is sort of connected. Michael Kumpula: easy. Yes, exactly. And I think our identity ⁓ is, the ability to overpower you. And last year, our offensive line couldn't do that. And our defense ⁓ has been struggling with ⁓ injuries, but we're always a physical team. that physicalness starts in trenches. And for the offense, it's the offensive line. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Michael Kumpula: And we couldn't, that's our identity is our physicalness and we couldn't do it. We still, tried to, mean, Amon Ra is a very physical wide receiver. He did his part. Even Tesla was doing his part, ⁓ you know, but our offense, starts in the trenches and it starts at our offensive center and our guards, right? We have, had last year, had, we have the best tackle in the league, I believe in Penesul. ⁓ Alyson Baxter: I, the minute we signed a right tackle, saw somebody post, Peney Sewell just became the best left tackle in the league. Michael Kumpula: Exactly. I knew that was coming. It's like, yeah, it is gonna be hard to find a left tackle. Why would you do that when you have the best left tackle in the league, even though he doesn't play left tackle right now? Right. will be. Yep. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, Penesol is so athletic. I think you could probably throw him at any position and he'd still do okay. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. Yeah. I think he'd be an all pro tight end. Exactly. Yep. I think he's going to be left tackle. think, ⁓ I think we have solved the center position on lions hope, right? I don't think I'm drinking too cool. Right. And I think we have enough depth and competition at guard that we're going to be okay. And I think our right tackle is we have enough options there now, with, ⁓ Alyson Baxter: Yeah, like he'd figure it out. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: I our first guy we picked. What was his name? Yeah, Blake Miller. See? Thank you very much. So I think we got enough there that I think our offensive line is back. So I'm really excited about that. Jamir Gibbs, Jared Goff, our passing game. I think Tesla is going to take a step forward. Hopefully we'll get our tight end back. Alyson Baxter: Blake Miller. You're welcome. Michael Kumpula: ⁓ But I think that that is going to change the game and then our defensive line is going to be really good. I think we made a good choice and I think it's going to be a good team. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, Sam Laporta, Brock Wright. Those would be the two tight ends that we're hoping both were injured. Sam Laporta with a back injury, which is not nothing. Speaking of draft picks, did you happen to also see, I think Brad Holmes is a character. I think he's very smart, but also the way he plays up journalists. Michael Kumpula: Yes. Yeah, have that. Alyson Baxter: I really enjoy it. you see him coming to the podium after they drafted the edge player Derek Moore? Michael Kumpula: What do you mean? No. Alyson Baxter: He walks up to the podium and is like, you guys gonna stop giving me shit now? Michael Kumpula: Hahaha I love that. Alyson Baxter: I just love that that his response was like, I did it. You all said I needed an edge. I got one. You gonna stop talking about it? Michael Kumpula: Yeah, now we got it. I think that's awesome. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. think, you know, speaking of draft picks and who we're excited about, we've got a lot of really good players, but I think one of the things that I find really interesting about the NFL, especially as a new fan, is how much of a toss up draft picks end up being. Your ability to be excellent at the college level is loosely correlated to your ability to be excellent in the NFL. Michael Kumpula: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Alyson Baxter: And it's so interesting to see, you know, we've got now Blake Miller, Derek Moore, we drafted a couple more people later down in those draft picks. You know, I think somebody from Michigan, we drafted, but you get into like, you know, pick 100, pick 120. You might never see those players again. One year in, one year out. Michael Kumpula: I know, right? Yeah, it's rare that you actually get a chance to ⁓ have a high impact player in the lower. So I'll throw it back at you. What are you most excited about this year? Alyson Baxter: I think that I find, you might laugh at this, I find myself saying... think that this year might be yet another rebuilding year. And I'm a little worried about it. Michael Kumpula: WHAT?! Why? Alyson Baxter: We have, I think that I'm excited about our defense coming back. ⁓ I think that as long as Brian Branch can come back, no injury. Brian Branch really hold, to your point, Brian Branch really holds our ability to defend against the run game. It's Brian Branch. ⁓ Michael Kumpula: Yeah. Yeah. Alyson Baxter: Kirby Joseph being able to come back, he sees the ball. I think he has more interceptions himself than most teams get on average all season. So having Kirby Joseph back will be huge. I'm excited about the defense. On the offensive side, anytime we get a new offensive coordinator, I think maybe I'm just nervous since last year was so bad from our offensive coordinator that getting a new offensive coordinator, I'm hoping, but I worry that he's just gonna need some ramp. Michael Kumpula: Hmm. That's fair. I think it's a fair concern. I think what happened last year is a lesson in what happens with change. However, I have faith in Dan and Brad. And I think in this case, they've learned wisdom comes from experience, right? So they've learned and I think they've applied that. I think we're gonna, the thing that's different this year, Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: I think about that what I'm reading about the offensive coordinator is that he adapts to his personnel. I was excited because he uses a lot of big personnel. When I was watching a podcast and he said, use that because that was the best personnel I could get on the field at one time. And that's what you have to do. You have to find ways to get the mismatches and get your best players on the field and then get the ball into their hands. You don't call plays, you call players, right? ⁓ And if you have a good offensive line, I'm to Jared Goff time. I think the offense is going to be fine. So it all flows from there. And whoever is calling those plays is going to be the beneficiary of the talent that we have on offense. The real question that I have is going back to what you said is Brian Branch and Kirby Joseph. They set the tempo for our defense. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Michael Kumpula: And if we can, and then the loss of Alex Anzolone, although I think that was a fair move. It was time. I remember the Minnesota game when we went 15 and two, ⁓ when he came back, the defense just seemed to step up because of him. So ⁓ think it'll be interesting to see how the defense adjusts without Alex Anzolone. And hopefully Kirby Joseph has worked out his, whatever that knee problem is. ⁓ Alyson Baxter: Yes. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: Hopefully we can get Brian. He won't be I understand Brian Branch won't be back for the season opener. So I hope our defense can get enough pressure that it doesn't become a problem. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, I think that that makes sense. did you hear the rumor that Decker actually wanted to retire but he didn't want to pay back his bonus and so instead he just declined to sign and was a free agent? Michael Kumpula: Yes. They wanted him to take a pay cut. said, nope. So when they caught him, they can't go after his bonus. That's what I heard. I think that's genius. I think that going after the bonus is silly. I don't think, I don't know why we do that. That's you don't go after, you know, Barry Sanders bonus. You don't go after Calvin Johnson's bonus. You know, the bonus is every, the, the, the gentleman who was just retiring this year said, Alyson Baxter: Yep. Same. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: We're not going back getting their money. We're going back and getting our money. I think that's baloney. I think a signing bonus is just a measure of our way to take the contract and the way the collective bargaining agreement to put together and make it an incentive for them to sign with us. I believe once they, you give them that signing bonus, that's what it's called, a signing bonus. It's their money at that point. And you shouldn't go back after it and get it. That's silly. Alyson Baxter: I totally agree. I am curious. ⁓ There's the emotional aspect, which is this just feels wrong. I think famously we did go after Calvin Johnson's signing bonus and Barry Sanders. And there's that side which feels bad. And when you... Michael Kumpula: And Barry Sanders. Yep. Yeah. Calvin was, he stopped talking to us. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Alyson Baxter: Frankly, that makes sense. I would too. There's that aspect. And then there's also, if you're a team that's known as clawing back bonuses, does that impact how agents will negotiate with you moving forward? Does that actually have a negative impact on your ability to say, ⁓ we'll give you a signing bonus? Michael Kumpula: That's wisdom, right? You look at it and you go, hey, they're a team that does that. So we have to change this. Yeah, I agree. Yep. Alyson Baxter: Yes. Yes. And I think that that's the part that's not, that they're not thinking about, that the president isn't thinking about. He's just thinking like, I think the quote he gave was like, well, if we gave Jumeirah Gibbs a $20 million bonus and he retired tomorrow, that wouldn't be fair. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. It's a signing bonus. The very name of it tells you when it's due. The fact that you can spread it out over a number of years is a salary cap luxury that they give us to adjust it, right? Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that if that is what Taylor Decker did, that it was his plan, I think it's so smart. Yeah, and I think more players should try to do that if they know their signing bonus is gonna be clawed back. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: I love it. Yeah. Game in the system. I love it. I agree, absolutely. And we went after ⁓ Ragnos signing bonus too, dumb, yeah. Alyson Baxter: Yes, we did. Dumb. Regna was such a good player and retired because he was so injured. Michael Kumpula: Right. And he played injured and then we're going to say, ⁓ we want your signing bonus back. Give me a break. Alyson Baxter: And he played injured. No, O-line in particular, it's a hard sport no matter what role you're in, right? It's a very physical game. I think, didn't Aiden Hutchinson say that the person that tackles the hardest is Brian Branch? He hits the hardest. Like, it's a really rough game. And if you're a defensive lineman or if you're an offensive lineman, your job is literally to hold people back. It's a very difficult job. Michael Kumpula: Yeah, he hits the hardest, yeah. Yes. Alyson Baxter: and it's a very physically demanding job. So to have a team say, thanks so much for your service while you've been here, we'll take that extra money back now, just feels gross. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: It is bad. It's a bad luck. It's a bad execution. It's just, you're creating this culture of authenticity and players first, and then you do that. It's just dumb. And I'm hoping, I'm hoping that Brad and Dan knew it, maybe even advised him. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, and said like, hey, by the way, this is what you should do. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited for the upcoming season. Even though I can have some nerves, I'm excited about the upcoming season. I've said this before, I will say it again. I think Teddy Bridgewater coming back is ⁓ one of the best moves we can make. Yep. ⁓ I think he an asset in the locker room in a way we can always benefit from. Michael Kumpula: ⁓ yeah, we did talk about that. I agree with that 100%. Yeah. Alyson Baxter: I know Jameson Williams has specifically talked about the impact Teddy Bridgewater has had. I think he's a leader. I'm really excited to have him in the group. I'm excited about our new center, Cade Mays. I think I've watched some of his tape. I'm excited about the way he plays. Michael Kumpula: Yeah, me too. Yep. Yep. So if you think about, we've got Panaiso will be our left tackle. We'll have Christian Mahogany as our left guard, I believe. Cade Mays is our center. Tate Ratledge and then Blake Miller will be our right guard. I think that has the potential to be a top 10 offensive line, depending on Blake Miller does, but he has played more games than probably any other, I think, offensive lineman in the whole draft. And I'm really excited about Tyleek Williams. coming back for his second year. His first year is always hard in the NFL. So I think we're going to have Aiden Hutchinson, Aline McNeil, Tylek Williams, Derek Moore. That's a solid starting defensive line. You know, got Trey Wingo hopefully, or McKay Wingo, not Trey. Levi, let's hope that they can come back together and play well. And then Derek Barnes and Jack Campbell. I think that's a solid with Rodrigo. I think we'll have a good... Front seven, right? And then I think our secondary solid, you know, you got Terry on DJ rock, Brian branch, Kirby Joseph, that he can come back healthy. I think that's a good defense and it's good enough. Hopefully Derek Moore will surprise a lot of people. I believe that he unnecessarily dropped. People were projecting him early on in a late first round, second round, and then something happens during draft where people then later in the predictions were. ⁓ I think he's a late second, early third. I think Brad knows what he's doing. I think this is going to be one of those drafts you look back on. Remember the draft when they got, you know, we traded down and we got Jamir and Jack and our tight end. ⁓ Yeah, and we got Laporta all in the draft, right? And everybody was like, ⁓ and we got Alyson Baxter: Laporta. I think that our rating was a C, that draft. Yep. Michael Kumpula: Yeah, and we got Brian Grant in that draft too, right? And it was like, everybody was like, and, but you, that, that it was probably one of the best overall drafts the Lions have ever had. I think this ⁓ Blake Miller and Derek Moore could be that. I think they're solid people are like, ⁓ the, the, the upside on them, you never know, right? You never know. But the floor is certainly. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, I totally agree. Michael Kumpula: Very high on both of those. They're going to be good players no matter what. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, I totally agree. think, you know, Pacheco is the new running back from the Chiefs that we traded for. I think he's, yeah, that's right. ⁓ He's obviously not David Montgomery. Michael Kumpula: Yep, we picked them up in free agency, yep. Alyson Baxter: But I think he's gonna be a good compliment to Gibbs. think David Montgomery going to the Texans is a good move for him personally, and for that I'm excited. I think it would have been hard to continue to keep both ⁓ Gibbs. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. Okay, you can't. Every time you're giving it to Monty, you are taking away from Gibbs. It's just a zero-sum game with the number of carries you can get. And Gibbs is now at a point where you need to get him the ball. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. I mean, how fast does he run? Michael Kumpula: know, it's amazing. ⁓ if you look at last year, someone does the, I think it's Amazon stats or real stats where they talked about the five fastest runs from scrimmage and I think Gibbs has three of them. Yeah, he's very fast. Alyson Baxter: Like. That makes sense. He's so fast. ⁓ Yeah, I'm really excited about it. I do, you know, going into the history of the Lions, the passing down pride version of the Lions, was there ever a time where you were, historically, you were looking at a team going, okay, you know, this time before the season starts, I think actually I'm really excited about this year. I know for a lot of seasons it was, ⁓ I'm not excited about anything. ⁓ But was there ever a time that you were like, I think actually this is gonna be a really good year? Michael Kumpula: Yes. Yes, that's the 2013, 2014, 2012. think it started in 2012. We, without knowing it, so this was going to a little bit contradict what I had said earlier. In 2014, we had an identity. It wasn't a team identity. It was a defensive line identity. And we had a defensive line. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Michael Kumpula: that was historically good, right? And it... carried us. We had a good offense. Matthew Stafford and Calvin Johnson, if you have that, you're going to have a good offense. But the 2014 defensive line ⁓ was, I think, at one point during the season, you had to go back 40 years to find a team that was better against the run than them. think we were giving up 17 points a game. Alyson Baxter: ⁓ yeah. Michael Kumpula: And they got rushing yards, we're like under 70 yards a game. Yeah. It was the best run defense in the league. And you just knew going into the game that no one was going to be able to run on us. And if you make any team in the NFL one dimensional, you can do a lot with that. And we did. And we were. Alyson Baxter: Whoa. Michael Kumpula: Unfortunate in that we couldn't hang onto that defensive line. You know, we just that was, and that's typical same old lions, right? You, you develop a little bit of, there was a year when we beat the Dallas Cowboys, where the Cowboys and the lions were both kind of, up and coming teams, right? But what happened was the lions didn't resign their players and we were looking more at the costs than winning. And the Cowboys did resign their players and they went on to win three Super Bowls. And we went on to ruin, well not ruin Barry Sanders career, but take away all the good players around him. You know, we didn't resign Lomas Brown. It just eventually even Chris Spielman ended up leaving. It was just mismanagement. And I think in that regard, when we lost our defensive line, that was mismanagement. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, what's the year or set of years where you felt the most down about the Lions? Where it really felt like same old Lions. Michael Kumpula: Yeah, that would be right after Barry resigned. ⁓ 2000, I think he resigned in 99. So in 2000 and 2001 and 2003, we were really historically bad. I mean, so bad. And we tried to be something that we weren't. We tried to be a running team after we had it. And it was sad. It was sad to be a Lions fan. there was no hope, it seemed like at that point. that was where I developed the saying, the best season. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: People would ask me, you an Allianz? How can you be Allianz fan? I well, the best season for the Allianz is the off season. Because we've got hope and we haven't lost a game yet. Alyson Baxter: It's true. And I think if I remember correctly, we would, especially in the Matt Patricia era, we would, speaking of bad seasons. Michael Kumpula: Ugh, good night. You want to talk about destroying talent and Matt Patricia. Alyson Baxter: He would play our best players in the preseason. And we'd win because nobody else did. And then we'd go on to lose all of those games in the actual season. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you listen to the stories about Matt Patricia. It's just awful. way he treated our players and then traded away leaders, remember ⁓ when we had those 10 and six and nine and seven years ⁓ with Coach Caldwell and they said, isn't good enough. But Coach Caldwell would say, ⁓ we have leaders, leaders in every room, meaning in the defensive line room, in the linebacker room, had leaders and he summarily traded away those leaders. ⁓ And the only thing you think of, why would you trade away good players for third round picks do the, can jump to the conclusion that he was insecure about his leadership ability and having to deal with these type A personalities, ⁓ Why else would get rid of these ⁓ great players like that? Alyson Baxter: Yeah, he just wanted a bunch of yes NFL players. I'll just, whatever you say, I'll get it done. Yeah, and that's a bummer. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. Yeah. So that defensive line that I was talking about was Nick Fairley and Nodama Kansu were the best defensive tackle pair that I think we've had ever. We have some good players around them, but they really set the tone and made our defense something else in 2014. That was a year. Alyson Baxter: of the things that I think is interesting the NFL is cap space ⁓ and the cap existing in the first place. ⁓ ⁓ the Lions, this ⁓ trade season, ⁓ to very focused on long-term cap ⁓ Making sure that. Michael Kumpula: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's right. Alyson Baxter: they restructured Jared Goff's deal, they signed, they just recently announced that they ⁓ picked up Gibbs' fifth year option, but they didn't yet for Jack Campbell because they want to do a longer deal. And I'm fascinated in the different styles that teams have. You know, the Lions have this ⁓ constantly sort aware of cap space versus the Eagles that just seem to be thinking about the next 12 months and that's it. I think I was hearing last year, ⁓ last season, they had the expensive ⁓ offensive team ⁓ in the and it apart. ⁓ And ⁓ I find those different strategies how to handle ⁓ cap space just really fascinating. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. I think the, the, ⁓ that goes back to the philosophy of who you are. And I think the lions, Dan Campbell has said, look, we're going to build this through the draft with, with Brad Holmes and we're going to, we're going to find really good players. ⁓ we're going make sure they're Detroit lions, which I've never had before. I've never, ⁓ you know, when you watch a team and you, you see a good player, go, ⁓ why couldn't he be on our team? Right. I want him on our team. You always think about free agency and signing players. But now it's like, yeah, he's not a lion. He wouldn't ⁓ fit. ⁓ Lions are team first. We're brutal. ⁓ We're very physical. It's a violent game. And I think not everybody can be a lion. So when you find them, you have to re-sign them. And that's part of a commitment that Dan Campbell and Brad Holmous makes to the players. You come in here, you work your tails off. You prove yourself and we will be the ones that pay you. You don't have to go and test the free market, free agent market. We will pay you. That's never been a Lions team in my whole lifetime. And that requires you to sign people to one year deals, to fill in gaps. It requires you to do things like salary into signing bonuses so that you can have more cap space to sign your own players. ⁓ And it requires you to take people who can't contribute as much as they used to, i.e., Alex Anzolone or a Taylor Decker. And you say, you know, $20 million is a lot. That's for a top tier tackle. You were mid range last year. You have to take a pay cut. Now, I believe that they really weren't going to do that. I really believe Taylor Decker was retiring and this was all a ploy so that he doesn't have to give back his Alyson Baxter: you Michael Kumpula: signing bonus. I hope that's the case, but ⁓ the that he hasn't been signed by someone else leads me to believe that that is the case because he's good to still play. ⁓ But said, all it is to say is, you know, people are like, ⁓ you've to go out and get big free agents. Okay, if you get a big free agent, what you're really saying is who on our team are we not going to sign? Because it's a zero sum game. You only have so much money to spend. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that, you know, you've talked about this when Ben Johnson was going to the Chicago Bears and Michael Kumpula: ⁓ don't even get that. I can't even deal with that. can't believe he could have gone anywhere. Why would he go in the same division? Alyson Baxter: It is painful and yeah, I miss Ben Johnson. And I am mad that he went to the Bears. But one of the things that you said that I thought was really interesting, yeah, two things can be true. I really like him and I thought he did such a good job on the Lions. ⁓ But one of the things you said was, you know, nobody's gonna be successful because of the way that org structure is, because of who you report to. Do you think the Lions... Michael Kumpula: It's to be true, as you like to say. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alyson Baxter: have an advantage because don't both Dan and Brad report to Sheila Ford. Michael Kumpula: Yeah, they do. I think, well, they don't report to each other, right? Like usually sometimes the general manager hires the coach. They don't, we don't do that, right? They're each independently accountable for their own results. So they're not tied together like we did in the Matt Patricia era. So I think that's great. But also I think the culture is set by Sheila Fortham, right? Because you can say we're player focused and you can say, Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Yeah. Michael Kumpula: You know, if we draft you and you produce, you're going to get paid here. But someone has to write the check. And I think we signed last year and past two years, $250 million, a quarter of a billion dollars in salaries. There's no one else that can do that but Sheila. She's the one who, that's where the buck stops with her when it comes to that money. Now you can say, Mike, it's all salary cap, right? Yeah, but still, it's money that you have to pay. and has to come out of someone's pocket. And ⁓ she has put her money where her mouth is. We had salary cap for the Lions and they twiddled it away with other players in the past, right? Or they kept ⁓ big gaps and we just didn't support our best players or re-sign the ones that we should have. This is a different Lions team in that regard. Alyson Baxter: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, we're at the hour. I'm so excited. I think maybe next time we can bring everyone back we'll have the schedule out. Michael Kumpula: I love it. Yeah, next couple of weeks we should be getting that schedule. that's exciting. Alyson Baxter: Yep, so we can talk about what we think is gonna happen, what we're excited about. mean, ending middle of the road means that we're gonna play a lot more middle of the road games, so that could be good for us. Yeah, so I'm excited to get that schedule so we can talk about that. Yeah, I'm excited. Michael Kumpula: Yeah. It will be good for us. Yeah. I'm manifesting it. We're going to go undefeated. Yes! We are not going to lose a game. We're going to be the 72 Dolphins all over again. Alyson Baxter: Yeah. Yep, I think that that's a great idea. And I look forward to Holly Campbell's Instagram posts post every game where she posts the Starbucks cup of the... Michael Kumpula: Did you see the one where he put that big beanbag chair in the back of his truck? That was awesome. Alyson Baxter: Yep, yep, this is the kind of influencer content that we need from Dan Campbell. I know he has a full-time job, but I'd like to see more of that content too. Michael Kumpula: Yes, we need more of that. I want to see him with his dogs, right? Cause he has a little toy dogs and he's huge. I mean, how many coaches do you know that can meet their draft picks and be bigger than them? Yeah, it's amazing. I love that man. Alyson Baxter: Yup. They're so, he's such a big guy. Yes. thanks, this was great. Thanks for joining us for our first official episode of Passing Down Pride. We're so happy that you guys stayed. Okay, ⁓ bye. Michael Kumpula: Appreciate it.