Aly: throughout the podcast today, we're going to have some special guests who will join, they'll leave. Some will say goodbye, some won't. But they're all part of the family. Welcome to Passing Down Pride. We're talking about week three, Lions Jets. Let's recap the game. Dad, going into this game, we were nervous about the secondary. We were nervous about Mike Sr.: Yep. Aly: Geno Smith. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Aly: How do you feel coming out of that game? Mike Sr.: Well, you know, the past two years I have I have felt like yeah, our offense is gonna be fine. Right. even last year we went nine and eight, I just thought like our offense is gonna win us these games and we just kept losing at the end of the season. It was and it wasn't necessarily the offense's air quotes fault. If you looked at the data, the stats were solid. But we weren't controlling the game of the offense. And the defense was our defense, it was typical. this game I felt like our offense did what we were what the current Lions culture is. We controlled the game. When we needed a score, we got it. Right? We went up by two scores. They were chasing us. And then when they even when they tied us, I felt like yeah, we we're gonna drive. I didn't realize we would do it so quickly and leave them so much time. and then to have that defense end the game was it was more than hopeful. It really set up my thought process for this. Hey, Mike. it really set up my thought process for the game. And so it's a long intro to what I'm thinking. We're two and one on our way to three and one, I believe. I believe that our offensive line now is Really at the cusp of being very good. our offensive center, Mike, remind me that guy's name. Michael: Juice scrugs. Mike Sr.: Juice Scrubs, according to PFF, is the fourth-ranked center in the NFL right now. And he's not even our starting center. I think he is a a a find. He did awesome last game. And and that is a tough defense. That's a tough defensive line. and I think our offensive line didn't dominate, but it did enough to win the game. It it we were solid across the front, We had enough Of our offense that I felt good again, like I did in the past two years. Three years, I would say. Michael: Mm-hmm. Mike Sr.: And I think going into this next game, I'm hopeful. And I think our front seven on defense is what I thought it was going to be. We are solid across the front. And I this is gonna be my hot take is I think we found our number one corner. Aly: Who do you think that is? Mike Sr.: Rick's drop. I think he showed he Aly: Ooh, okay, so you're hot on Brake Straw. Mike Sr.: showed flashes of, my gosh, he is really good. There's a couple of plays we're like, okay, okay, I can see that. he did man and he did zone and he did it well. That's my take. I think I think we're solid. I think we've got help for the for the back end of the defense. I don't think it's solved, but I think when BB comes back, I think we could we could be moving towards a a respectable secondary. I don't think it's gonna be dominant, it's not gonna be our lead, but I think it's gonna be enough for us to be the type of team that we need to get to the Super Bowl. Aly: I love it. Mike, what did you special guest? Other Mike Cumple had joined. Mike, what did you think of the game? Michael: Great. you know, again, I don't love that we let a team back in it after being up by fourteen in the fourth quarter. but I will say we had a real opportunity as an offense to really take over that game by getting that fourth and one that we got stuffed. I Mike Sr.: Yeah. Michael: didn't love the that was probably the worst play call of the game. but on the fourth Mike Sr.: It was executed poorly. It was a bad call and executed poorly. Michael: Yeah, and I would say too, I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth 'cause I really thought the offense had a chance to put that game away. And we've scored thirty one exactly for the last three games. So it's kinda hard to be like Okay, the offense can't be expected to be perfect every time. I thought a couple things that I have seen as a theme over the last couple games is our ability to be successful running the ball. Jameer Gibbs has really not had big seventy yard runs. He's been very efficient. the run game has been good. Jared Goff has been lights out. I think it was eight touchdowns, no interceptions so far. He's taking the plays when he can can get them. He's pushing the ball when he can. he's dumping it down to the backs and the check downs when needed and that's exactly what we need. And then I would say offensive line wise, similar to what Dad said, our offensive line has looked solid. Have they dominated? I think that's a good question, and I think it's gonna time will tell if they can t if they continue to play this well. but I thought they were very good and you know, we've played the Jets who have the number two pick in the draft, David David Bailey, who's been really, really good. We didn't really see him very much. I didn't really think about Pinet Sewell, I didn't think about Blake Miller all that often in the best way possible. Defensive wise, there's a big Big change, and I have to say I appreciate that there was a change. It was not perfect, but I appreciate there was change. The Lions played quite a bit of zone. They also rushed only four multiple times. You could see them doubling Aiden Hutchinson quite often. and there were times where Gino had too much time. so we're gonna have to figure out a balance of what is good for blitzing, how do we get pressure, but not leave our guys to be strung out on the back end. I think very too mo too early to King rakestraw, our number one corner. I think he has flashes, Aly: Yeah. Michael: but I think if he's been consistent and really good, he would be playing. so I was excited about the game. Mike Sr.: I'll give my counter to that is that Michael: I'm excited to play Carolina. I think winning cures lots of ailments less bad. Mike Sr.: coach said he'd he has earned more playing time. I think there's concern about some of the maybe the the injuries But what I saw in that game, and I bet some I've watched a couple of analysis videos on him, what I saw was he's good enough to be our number one and and move DJ Reed over to number two. I think he showed flashes of that. And I think DJ Reed proved why he's not a number one. I mean, those two four those that fourteen points they scored was basically on DJ Reed. Aly: Yeah. Couple of stats to back what you guys are saying. So going into week four, we the Lions are the third highest scoring team with 93 points scored so far this year. we're seventh in passing yards with 802 passing yards and we're also seventh in EPA per offensive play at point one one. but we are dead last in points allowed. 95. No one is worse than us right now. And we also are we are thirty one of thirty two in total yards allowed, twelve hundred and fifty. Madysen Kumpula: Feels like we get into these scenarios of third and long yardage and our secondary just can't do anything about it. And that is like our our defensive front looks great, stellar. I think we we f we found some great pieces in the off season and I think Ali McNeil has stepped up in a big way to really help Hutch on the front. But our secondary is is selling these games and it stresses me out having to watch the offense scramble to score all of these points because we know our secondary can't stop them. Like I feel like our secondary made the Jets look like a rock star offense last week, and that should not Gino should not look like a rock star quarterback. in my brain. So that was definitely a bummer. Aly: No, now Gino had some amazing throws. That's true. There were there were a couple of breakout moments that you watch that I watched on replay and thought, man, what a throw. Like what a what a catch. Like just amazing plays. And What I saw on the defense was despite playing less cover three, so we were a little more balanced in our different coverages. We did about twenty percent in cover three, twenty percent cover six. Still pretty low in terms of man, but that makes sense with our secondary. They physically cannot keep up But it's still you get into that fourth quarter and we kind of start to give away the game and you feel tired. Madysen Kumpula: Absolutely. And I'm I and I do want to say Garrett Wilson is an insane wide receiver. He is very good. He Aly: Absolutely. Yeah. Madysen Kumpula: is far and away better than our DBs combined. So there's nothing we can do on that front. But those third and long scenarios really just like sucks the life out of you as a fan. To be like, it's third and 11. We could stop him, but I know we won't. Aly: So far, when our opponents are trying to convert a third down, they're successful fifty six percent of the time. That's way too high. Madysen Kumpula: Far too high, especially because it feels like we're getting such good pressure up front. Aly: first of all, welcome Maddie to the pod Madysen Kumpula: Hello. I'm Mike Sr.: That's right. Madysen Kumpula: so glad to be here. Aly: We're happy to have you. Maddie, Michael: Sister of the Pod. Aly: how long have you Sister of the Pod, Maddie, how long have you Madysen Kumpula: Sister of the pod. Aly: been a Lions fan? Madysen Kumpula: Well, on Friday I turned twenty six, so about twenty six years. Michael: She's a bandwagon fan. Madysen Kumpula: Right. Yeah. One could say. Aly: Dad, who was the head coach twenty six years ago? Mike Sr.: let's see that would have been two thousand. Michael: That's the. That's. Was that Steve Marinelli? Mike Sr.: No, no, he would have been later than that. Might it could have been. I th I think likely 'cause that would have been the year after Barry Sanders retired. So that would've been Michael: Marty? Mike Sr.: the guy from San Diego. no morning Michael: think that was Marty. Mike Sr.: would have been after that. No, it was the guy No Morning Wig would have been What year do we go 0 in 16? Madysen Kumpula: Like two thousand eight. Michael: Steve Maranelli. Mike Sr.: Yeah. No, that was my gosh. I could see Aly: Guys, I googled it. Are you ready? Mike Sr.: I c I could see the guy's face. No. Michael: No, let's him and Hoff for a little while longer. Aly: Are you thinking of Madysen Kumpula: This is great radio. Mike Sr.: Yes. Aly: Bobby Ross? Mike Sr.: Bobby Ross was the coach in 2000 Aly: Yep. Mike Sr.: would be my guess. Aly: And then he resigned mid season and Gary Moiler took over. Moeller. Mike Sr.: Muller, yeah. And then it didn't go well. Madysen Kumpula: Yeah, so Michael: No. Madysen Kumpula: I grew up in the era of Brandon Pettigrew, Matthew Stafford, Calvin Johnson. I don't know why I said Brandon Pettigrew first. That just like Michael: Yeah, that was terrible. Hey, Matty, Matty, you really dropped the ball on that one. Madysen Kumpula: It kind of just encapsulates the lions we grew up with though. It's like, yes, we had Matthew Stafford and Calvin Johnson, but we also had Brandon Pettigrew. Aly: I'm just I'm Googling Brandon Pettigrew Madysen Kumpula: Allie, these were the times Michael: turn around and drop the ball. Madysen Kumpula: these were d the times during Aly: Who is this person? Madysen Kumpula: Thanksgiving when we would be watching and he would drop every ball of consequence he would drop it. Michael: of consequence. Madysen Kumpula: First and ten. Mike Sr.: Not only did he drop it, I remember a game where he had a ball stolen from him. He Michael: Yeah. Mike Sr.: dropped the pass and someone just took it from him. Madysen Kumpula: It like first and ten. Yep. Aly: Mm. Michael: he would catch like a little in route and just turn around and Mike Sr.: Yeah. Michael: the guy would just take it. Mike Sr.: Just took it. And he's a big huge guy and he's like, Yeah, you can have it. This little little Madysen Kumpula: Huge. And Mike Sr.: safety took it from him. Madysen Kumpula: he would catch the balls where it's like Michael: Thank Madysen Kumpula: first and ten and he's he does a little, you know, in route on the one like on the eleven yard line. He'd catch that, but anything that mattered, drop. Auto drop. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Madysen Kumpula: So it's it's been a better couple years for sure. I I remember growing up in the Midwest having to tell people. When they'd be like, who do you root for? And I would say the lions, the cubs, and the pistons and everyone would look Aly: Yeah. Madysen Kumpula: at me with pity. So it feels better Aly: Yeah. Madysen Kumpula: now. Aly: That makes sense. Mike Sr.: Yeah, so this I got I got the list now. So it's Bobby Ross. he was the architect of Barry Sanders' early retirement. I think he made he Aly: Ooh. So we don't like him. Mike Sr.: well, not only just him the architect, I think the The whole process of how the lines were run. Bobby Ross mishandled Barry Sanders. I think he stopped making it fun. He literally stopped handing him the ball inside the 10 yard line. Because he was seen as a finesse back, not a power back. And then they brought in Gary Moeller, who was awful and had some off field issues. I won't even talk about that here because it's not family friendly. And then we brought in Marty Morningwig, who The great thing about Marty Morning Wing is we won the toss in overtime, and he elected to kick the ball in a sudden death overtime, and we lost the game. We never got the ball. And then we brought in what we thought was going to be our savior, Steve Mariucci, a man from Upper Michigan, Iron Mountain, who coached for the San Francisco 49ers. And we successfully turned him into a mediocre coach where he could not go on to coach after the Lions. He had to go into the broadcast. At that point. And he was, we fired him mid-season. He was replaced by Dick Geron. And then we brought in Rob Marinelli. And Rob Marinelli orchestrated the 0 in 16 game season. Michael: He was a nice guy. Mike Sr.: He was a nice guy. And then we brought in Jim Schwartz, who helped. Michael: Not a nice guy. Mike Sr.: Not a nice guy. And Madysen Kumpula: Great defensive coordinator. Mike Sr.: Awesome, even to this day as a great defensive coordinator, but could not orchestrate a culture of winning. And a lot of that is the organization again, right? Michael: . Mike Sr.: I think our best coach in my lifetime was that had to live with the the the awful organization was Jim Caldwell. I think he was able to navigate that organization and create leaders at every level, but still didn't have an organization that allowed him to create a culture of winning. And then we we went down Aly: Hmm. Mike Sr.: the whole. Matt Patricia debacle. 97 Aly: See now Mike Sr.: wasn't good enough. So we brought in Matt Patricia and I don't think he went 97 that one year. Madysen Kumpula: Truly another another another great another great defensive coordinator though. Terrible head coach. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Yeah. Terrible might some Madysen Kumpula: Real bad. Mike Sr.: might even say a terrible person, some of the stories you're coming out of there. now we got Dan Campbell and let's face it, that You know, I am trying to like Metallica as a group because of Dan Campbell, and it's really hard. I'm just not a big hard rock guy, but I keep listening to Michael: You Mike Sr.: all the music and it's like, is this the song that's gonna turn me around? Other than Sandman, which the words of Sandman are just really sad and awful. I just Madysen Kumpula: Ha ha ha. Mike Sr.: can't get into it. But I want to, I want to ban. Aly: That's how dedicated you are as a Lions fan. Madysen Kumpula: Other than, you know, the fact that Dan Campbell likes it, I hate all of it. Mike Sr.: Exactly. I really wanna like 'cause of Dan Campbell. Aly: And you just can't. Michael: say something that is missed during that discussion was the real change of the Lions and that was when Sheila Ford took over. When Sheila Mike Sr.: Yeah. Michael: Ford took over and she started hiring Chris Spielman, even Rod Wood, Mike Sr.: Yes. Yep. Michael: he's on my list but he was a part of it, and they came together to hire Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell. Not only did they hire them and they're good, and they're good at their jobs. But she was the one that really had started to set the culture in the direction that it needed to happen. Really interesting. I think we've talked about this before, just that Mike Sr.: Yeah. Michael: she wanted to work in the NFL when it was in like the 60s or 70s and they didn't let her. And now she's finally the owner of the team Mike Sr.: 'Cause she's a woman. Michael: and she's incredible. Yeah, she's doing an incredible job. She started the The culture the way it is, every time there's a locker room speech and Dan stands next to her, I'm a little worried she's gonna snap in half. But other than that, she's doing a great job. Like he'll hug her and I'm like, uh-oh. Mike Sr.: Mm-hmm. that's a good take on it. She she is that's the culture thing I'm talking about. She changed the culture. And one of the biggest things that she changed, and in next episode I'll bring in that article, that history of the Detroit Lions. but one of the things that she changed was Dan and Brad decided to build through the draft. In order to build through the draft, you have to do second contracts. And we had, I think right now, a third of a billion dollars in second contracts. That's a lot of money to put out. And you need organizational support to put that kind of cash on the line. Aly: I think I was listening to Jared Goff talk about the the core five that have signed second contracts. You've got Jared Goff, Amon Rosane Brown, you have Jameer Gibbs, Aiden Hutchinson, Jack Campbell, like you have a core group of people that we have intentionally decided to keep that I think we can all Mike Sr.: Mm-hmm. Aly: agree are excellent. football players and Mike Sr.: Yes. Aly: and even in that list you can see just a few of the gaps that exist where we're gonna have to make some decisions like does Brian Branch end up becoming one of those core? I don't think Kirby Joseph does unless they can rebuild his knee successfully. Madysen Kumpula: Dan Campbell said last week that they don't think he Kirby Joseph will ever play football again. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Madysen Kumpula: So I d we just can't we can't bank on that, unfortunately. Like he's a great safety, but his knee is gone. Mike Sr.: And and that's a miss I think. That's a Brad Holmes has done a great job. And he if you look at even even last week I said the twenty twenty four draft was a was a fail. Aly: Yeah, now you think Rigshaw is our number one starting corner. Mike Sr.: Well, I think he's good, but even even without Rake Straw, some of the other people will be drafted in twenty twenty four are still playing for the Lions. And so every year there have been two or three players in the Lions that are either playing and making meaningful contributions or are starting. So set that aside, Brad Holmes has still done great work. I think the biggest miss is our secondary. You know, he just we Aly: I would agree. Mike Sr.: haven't drafted well. I mean we tried to the two corners, but amiss, you know last year we knew Kirby Joseph was at a risk and that we didn't turn up the safety. And we didn't even go out and try and sign a safety. Aly: No, and I mean I watched the Ravens Cowboys game, and I was watching one of their cornerbacks, and I thought, man, this Wiggins guy is so good. He is all over Lamb. All over him. Like, he cannot catch a pass. We could have drafted him. He was drafted after Tyrion Arnold. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Aly: But I think those those things are so much easier to say, you know, upon reflection, you're like, well if I would have known then what I know now. but it does feel like a a Madysen Kumpula: Yeah, and with the with the ter Aly: miss Madysen Kumpula: With the Terrian Arnold thing, unfortunately, you think you made the right choice, right? And he was playing decently well, got injured, and then you have he was playing fine. He was still young, but then you have these off field issues where you're like, Well, obviously we shouldn't have drafted him, but w you have no idea. Aly: No. No, that's absolutely true. Mike Sr.: Yeah, but even the on kid, he wasn't great. But I agree, he still You you just come to expect it with Brad that we're always gonna hit, but for thirty years I've watched the Lions not hit. So I am not gonna be here micromanaging Brad Holmes, right? There's so many first round draft picks that we've drafted that have been busts. It's historic. I mean the greatest bust of all time is Andre Ware. The Lions drafted a quarterback. He was a run and shoot quarterback. We picked him number one and number one. And he I don't think he played more than five downs. He's just not good. Aly: Thanks, Mike and Maddie, for joining the pod this week. We were happy to have you. Who are some standouts so far, you know, we're going into week four. Who are some standouts that you feel like now that you're watching them twenty twenty six season, they're outperforming your expectations? Or they're just top of mind on like, wow, I'm really excited about that player. I'm curious. Mike Sr.: That is a great question. I think DJ Waddle, I mean, his game last game was Aly: Yeah. Mike Sr.: fantastic. If he continues at that rate, I think the the defense the the rookie defensive tackle, is fantastic. In fact they had him on a goal-line stand a goal line offense, and he he actually threw a block for Gibbs on a one-yard run. I didn't even have him on my radar going into the season. but a Skylar Gil Howard. Aly: Ooh, okay. Mike Sr.: I saw a YouTube short where he comes into the into the huddle and Goff says, Skylar, just blow somebody up. Hopefully it's the person you're supposed to blow somebody up, blow up, but if you can't hit that person, blow anybody up. And darned if he didn't. He went and blew somebody up. And he, you know, he was a sixth tackle. He ran a he ran a motion and then just clipped the guy right out. But I think he Aly: I mean Mike Sr.: he was playing well enough to get my notice on defense, right? And Aly: Yeah. Mike Sr.: that front seven, I had hopes for him. I think it might have been Lion vision, right? Where you kind of see things through the rose-colored glasses, the blue, blue-colored glasses. but the the the the front seven on defense last week played really well. That said, I'm really excited about this team. I think this team is only going to get better. We get BB back, he's gonna be the the captain of our back end. And he is gonna help not just shore up our run game, our run defense, but I think he's gonna shore up all of that and raise the bar for everybody. Aly: I would agree. Mike Sr.: And I was really I was really happy to see Rake Straw and some of his plays. I think I think he could be a really good player. Aly: Yeah. Mike Sr.: This year. Not in the future, this year. Aly: I I mean I would love to see it. two players that I have been not surprised by, but have enjoyed watching. Derek Barnes. I think Derek Barnes has been killing it so far this year. I have been Mike Sr.: Yes, he has. I agree. Aly: I've been really impressed with his ability to see the field, for him to make plays, you know, for him to get those tackles. but Our backup running back, since Isaiah Psh Pacheco is injured, Vacky, I think is his name. Mike Sr.: Yeah, so I'm hacking. Aly: Some of his blocks, I mean, he knocked guys to the ground Those were really impressive. And he's not, you know, a guard or a tackle, he's a running back, but the plays they would make where he had to go and make a block. I mean, I I think there was literally one where he went to block a guy and the guy fell backwards. Like he's Mike Sr.: Yep. He is a beast. Aly: he's just so that was fun to watch. Like, okay, this is a really fun backup running back. When you're the backup to Jameer Gibbs, it I I would imagine it's just very hard. Jameer Gibbs literally one of his runs for a touchdown in the game, he started to go one way, noticed it was crowded. Mike Sr.: yeah. Aly: turned around and went the other way for a touchdown. Like nobody does that. Like that's crazy. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Yeah, and it's two Yeah, it it it it was he broke two tackles and beat the entire defense. Yeah. Yep. Aly: Right? Like that's not that's not normal. it has been enjoyable to watch Vacky. How are you feeling about Sunday night football? Mike Sr.: you know, we historically have had trouble against the Panthers, even in a 12 and 5 season. We went there and had our hat handed to us. but I think I think first of all that they're gonna bring that up, right? This has been always been a jack game for us. Second Aly: Sure. Mike Sr.: of all, I think that we're on the upswing, right? I think Buffalo was a a gut check. Aly: It a low point. Mike Sr.: And then there was, you know, the Dan challenged a team, and people were saying the grit has been lost, right? And I think we've got lot of really good players that have a lot pride. And I think we're on the upswing. I think this team is just going to get better. And Carolina has some problems. They have a backup left tackle, a backup right tackle, and a backup right guard, I believe. And, by Aly: And Mike Sr.: the way, we have their starting center from last year on our team. Aly: Yes. And their two corners are out. They're two starting corners. Mike Sr.: And I think their backup two wide receivers are out. So they've got some real issues. that said, I hope it's not a trap game. but I feel a lot better going into this game that I think we'll be able to run the ball, I think we'll be able to throw the ball, and I think our front seven is going to harry their quarterback. I think he is gonna be in a lot of trouble. Aly: I think if they're missing two of their corners, I my expectation would be we're gonna see a lot of Tesla and Jamison Williams plays. Cause they are the ones that run the long routes. St. Brown and Goff have mind melded to a point where they just don't even really need to think about whatever is happening. They'll just Mike Sr.: That's true, yeah. That's right to put it. Aly: The ball will just go to St. Brown, no matter where he is on the field. And it doesn't matter who else is on the field. Mike Sr.: Yeah. Aly: so I'm not I'm not worried about that at all. but having having two corners out on the Panthers side, I'm I'm curious to see if we see more of those long throws to two, I think, really strong wide receivers. Mike Sr.: Yep. I think their I was just looking at their PFF grades yesterday and their PFF grades coming into this into this game, into the last game even weren't great. Right? Their run Aly: Yeah. Mike Sr.: blocking was like in the in the high low twenties. but now with their their offensive line in such disarray it's just gonna get worse, right? Aly: Yeah. Mike Sr.: and I think their their run defense is pitiful. I think it's like in the lower half twenty fifth, right? Aly: That's great for us. Yeah. Mike Sr.: So I think I think the run defense is in trouble, which is where we want to go. I think their their pass defense hasn't been awful, but it's it's gonna get worse with the corners out, right? And their their pass blocking hasn't been great, which is great for us. I feel really good about our ability to control the game, to keep their offense off the field, and convert third downs, which is what we want to do. And good fourth down if need be. So I'm really excited Aly: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Mike Sr.: about it. And quite frankly we're at our best in primetime games. This has really become passing down the pride in its entirety, where the pride of my life jumps in and out of this podcast throughout at random intervals. Aly: We're so happy to have you guys. Thanks for listening. Like and subscribe for more. Mike Sr.: Smash that button.