Jim Mayer: Most people never think about the thousands of decisions it takes to get products on time. This is a story of a man who carries that responsibility every day. Hello and welcome back to the Manufacturing Culture podcast. I'm your host, Jim Mayer. I'm so excited that you all are here today. gonna have a lot of fun. We're gonna talk with somebody, Steve Shbuski. ⁓ Steve has spent his entire world ⁓ warehouses and warehousing industry. And we're really going to dive deeper into why he entered and why he the pride that he with the world of work that is in. Before we dive into that though, I would just love for all of wherever you're listening,

Steve Shebuski: Okay. Thank

Jim Mayer: to rate and review the podcast, take two seconds, push pause, rate and review the show. not for my ego, it's not for Steve's ego. ⁓ It's so that more people actually find the show every time you rate and review some algorithm that I don't understand, rockets us up the charts and more people find these conversations and these conversations are important to be having. make sure you do that. If you like this show, make sure you check out our other shows.

Steve Shebuski: Thank Thank

Jim Mayer: Work but Make it Human is all about frameworks. These are going to be consultants and authors and speakers that have on how you can change the world of work. Season 2 is just about to release, so go check that out. Check out Connector, our YouTube channel. That's the technology shapes the world of manufacturing. Think software platforms, hardware platforms. If you need to change the world of work with technology, that's a show for you. But don't go listen to any of those before you listen to this one, because this going to be really fun episode. So without further ado, Steve Shabooski, welcome to the manufacturing culture podcast, my man. How are you doing today?

Steve Shebuski: Awesome, doing awesome. Thanks, Jim. Super happy to be here. Appreciate you inviting me on the show. So looking forward to conversation today.

Jim Mayer: We're going to have a lot of fun, man. We are going to have a lot of fun. Steve, I have two standard icebreakers that I ask all of my guests and you're no different. You don't get away with this without these. So Steve, first question, if your life were a movie, what genre would it be? Who plays you and what's the opening scene?

Steve Shebuski: Woo, if my life's a movie, what genre? Well, I would say, would say it would be something like, I don't know. I feel like I want my genre to be in like rocky side kinds of movies where we're just the underdog climbing up the top and And really, mean, those things just fire me up. think my my life story is about just, you know, continuing to grind, being good to people and customers. ⁓ and always learning and being humble. And so I feel like that's a great story. My kids, when I make them watch Rocky, they're like, is this like dot matrix or what is this? those are still so great for me. So I've lined up to that gym. I think it would be the thing that would define me the most.

Jim Mayer: Okay. Who plays you?

Steve Shebuski: Oh man, I don't know. What's the guy's name that's, he's the comedian. A lot of people say I look like him that's in like Mall Cop. Maybe it's him, I don't know. Yeah. I think maybe somebody like that. think.

Jim Mayer: Kevin James? All right, I can see it. All right.

Steve Shebuski: In general, it would be great. That would be a great one. I like to think, you know, I can crack a few jokes ⁓ you at the end of the day, that would be a good person. doesn't line up to, you know, and I don't line up to the Rocky fitness levels, but what do you say? We'll go with that. ⁓

Jim Mayer: No, I like that. he ⁓ in a underdog story. It was a Netflix film, the one where played Sean Payton ⁓ when he coached ⁓ the school football team. ⁓

Steve Shebuski: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah! I did, I watched that with my voice. I know what you're talking about.

Jim Mayer: Yeah, I watched that with my son too. Yeah. So so we've got we've got the genre. You're an underdog story. You're played by Kevin James. What's the opening scene?

Steve Shebuski: Opening scene would be, I don't know, let's say for me it's like, at the end of it, it's kind of like you've got this entire career of work. So maybe it's me at the end of the road with a, you know, looking back at. at my at my life and all the things that we've ⁓ with my family and my work and then we zoomed through all those things. I'm just kind of thinking about the end scenes of of my Rocky movie where you know we're at the end the rings empty and there's you know my family and then and all my close friends and colleagues that I've worked with and we get to share lots of memories so I think I love it would be fun to start there and then zip through the history and see how we How we ended up where we did. It's been a windy road.

Jim Mayer: I like that. I like that. Yeah, I like that man. And that's that's some good foreshadowing for the conversation we're going to have today about your story. But before we get into that, have to answer the next icebreaker question. And it's a little less fun, it's no less important. Steve, what does culture mean to you?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah, culture to me, you over the years, it's meant everything. start, when I think about, you know, when I started with... One of the companies we started here in Indianapolis. It's really a culture me is about, you know, how your people feel enabled. It's culture to me is like, you know, ⁓ the way feel towards each other, towards their customers. And really, you the culture is, are one of, you how we do as team and really. you know, what your actions are and how you behave what's most important to you and what ⁓ value. So that's what culture is. I have, you know, we'll talk about it today, but I have real specific things that I think drive a lot of success in the teams that I've worked on over the years. You know, I'm... sports guy played soccer at Michigan State then got into some distribution and manufacturing. And I know that the outcomes of all of those things are dependent on all the people that work with, regardless of where they are and what their position is. so just a culture of and togetherness ⁓ and going towards the common goals and things. ⁓ I that. And you know, it's those things are really important to me. So I think that's a long answer to that. But it's something that we think about, especially in small companies all the time, about how we how we preserve it and nurture it and make sure that it's just something that's super important to us.

Jim Mayer: love it. I love it. And I love that you brought team sports into it, right? And and specifically soccer. I'm a big soccer fan. My son plays soccer. We watch, you know, all sorts of we're actually taking a trip to Madrid in March to go see ⁓ Madrid play. Just because his favorite he's goalkeeper. He's 11 years old. His idol is court. Yeah, and

Steve Shebuski: Yeah.

Jim Mayer: at 40, I think, court twice 3840. He's nearing the end of his time, least with Real Madrid. And so we wanted to get over there and catch a game before he hung up the cleats at the Liga level. So we're going to go catch a game in March, which will be fun. ⁓ But drawing back to your answer, the culture that you see or that you in team sports

Steve Shebuski: Yeah.

Jim Mayer: really I've noticed is the people who play team sports and play it at a higher level, collegiate or beyond, they typically have the ability to build a good team culture in the world of work. And it translates very well, because if you don't have that, that basis, that foundation of what accountability looks like, of what

Steve Shebuski: Yeah.

Jim Mayer: it means to build a culture or be a part of a healthy culture, it's harder for people to do that in the world of work. Does that make sense?

Steve Shebuski: mean, I totally, first of all, I'm very jealous of your trip to Madrid. what so I did that almost, it was almost 20 years ago now that I was there and saw a game and there's, you can't describe it. It's not comparable to watching sports here in the U.S. ⁓

Jim Mayer: No, not at all.

Steve Shebuski: You guys will have you're gonna have an amazing time. So that's gonna be awesome. But yeah, I mean, I think you're 100 % right so much about, you know, what I've brought to the the my career is founded in you know, sports and everything that I've learned in sports about, you know, what a team looks like and what it means to a role and what it means to, you know, lift folks up and enable folks to get better and work together. Like all of those things to common goal, like, you know, that stuff, you know, but still have, you know, ⁓ know, leadership and hierarchy and following the rules and accountable. Like all those things come into play. And as anyone sports knows, you learn some of those things the hard way. And as you get on better and better teams in your life, you know, your roles shift and you know, as you on more talented teams and it doesn't mean that, you know, it's still fun to a part of different teams. teams no matter what your role is, especially if you're being successful. So that's something I've learned. In soccer, the people that know it, when I was in high school, I was like, hey, you're the best. play center midfield. And as I got better and better teams, I've kept moving backwards ⁓ the field, all way back to marking back and things.

Jim Mayer: Yeah. ⁓

Steve Shebuski: at certain points in career, but still the same sort of impact and really an important of my life too. So definitely good relations to that, at least for kids and everybody else they're starting up to have that as a foundation is very important.

Jim Mayer: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Great point. let's into your story a little bit, Steve. How did you first get into the supply chain field?

Steve Shebuski: Mm. Yeah, so, you know, it's, kind of an interesting story. spent all my collegiate years studying engineering, specifically chemical engineering. and, it was hard. ⁓ And, you know, and then when I got into doing like, an internship and, and really started that career at three they basically put me in a.

Jim Mayer: You

Steve Shebuski: lab and I was testing billboard material like the film spraying it heating it but basically it was by myself for like two months all these tests I tested all this stuff I gave I presented for like 30 minutes to a couple of my people reported to and they like basically handed me the next two months of testing and said, a lot, keep rolling. And I was like, isn't for me. I you know, I'm not by myself in a lab all day. It's not going to work. And at the time it was the.com boom. And, and was some folks that I met that were building ERP ⁓ WMS manufacturing systems. And so just jumped into that by happenstance and was programming applications, specifically a warehouse management solution after that, and literally never left supply chain again after I did that jump. So four years of commitment to chemical engineering for about 90 days. And then we were off.

Jim Mayer: love that. And I mean, it's an uncommon theme that we see on this show, right, where somebody goes to school for one thing and ends up doing something different. What I've noticed is there are very few linear paths that people have taken into the manufacturing sector or warehousing sector, supply chain sector, lot of people take these meandering ⁓ paths. Jacob Sanchez, you know, he, he to take home ec in high school, because that's where the girls were, right. ⁓ And it was full and got placed into advanced manufacturing in high school.

Steve Shebuski: She's beautiful. Yep.

Jim Mayer: And now he's like one of the biggest robot nerd out there, right? But he he resisted for so long. So I that because your path is equally as nonlinear into supply chain, you thought chemical engineering was going to be this path for you. ⁓ So when you first got in and you started, you know, building this this ⁓ WMS was there a moment that you realized that

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yep.

Jim Mayer: supply chain, what you were doing was your career, not just the job that you needed at the time, but the career that you wanted to be in or the industry you wanted to be in.

Steve Shebuski: Yeah, I would say it wasn't right away. I kind of jumped into it and was, they, you know, it had me sort of programming the logic and different things. know, as an engineer, it's easy for me ⁓ understand patterns and different things of that nature. And so that was, that came somewhat naturally, but like, you know, I think at the time, and as I look back, I probably really didn't understand ⁓ the scenarios and the use cases and what I was really enabling. And so as I kind of moved along, it's kind of in the career, it's like, want to be more in front of customers and things. And so as I jumped into the warehouse and on the manufacturing plant floor, as a consultant of some of these applications ⁓ we were building, and really started to understand the complexities business and movement of material. That's got me hooked was like, man, there's the, like every one of these problems is unique in some way. As I, as I kind of went to a few customers, it's not like we're just rinsing and repeating. Everyone's got a different layout of buildings, machinery, materials. you're in an old building, you're in a new building. You've got.

Jim Mayer: Got it.

Steve Shebuski: You know, you know, all these different types of constraints, that aren't always the same as order profiles, skew profiles, whatever it is that everything was a little bit different. And so the problem solving of optimization and efficiency and applying people process and technology, together was always a unique problem. And I was like, this, this is for cause it, you know, it's always going to be something new. know, that's how my brain works from a problem-solving perspective and that point I ⁓ hooked. ⁓

Jim Mayer: That's awesome, That's awesome. you you from a job building the the warehouse management system into ⁓ you directly into consulting after that?

Steve Shebuski: Right into, into consulting specifically around that, you know, ⁓ at point, I think, you know, there's a couple of, you know, interesting customers along the way that really kind of got me into the consulting side. I remember I had a client was in the alcohol beverage industry a long time ago and And it was one of my first consulting gigs. And, you know, he was, was, you know, a person that could tell that I hadn't have a ton of experience. And of his comments was to me that was like, Hey, you've got to really know the work to understand how to do this job. And so part of, part of that experience just really taught me to, to, you know, have, especially, you know, the guys running the forklifts and the machines and really be humble and learn from those kinds of folks. to bring technology to the game. And so as I got into that and started to really look at it from that lens, I kind of really started to gravitate towards that consulting gig from that sort of perspective. Over time, the consulting kind of changed as we started. We had started a company with some folks. Originally, I joined Blue Horseshoe almost 25 years ago. And went for about 20 years where we really focused on that and then we really kind of expanded into manufacturing and ERP as And so then the problems just got more significant and the got broader. But yeah, it's all it's kind of ⁓ from those beginnings. you know, through today has been really kind of focus is really the strategy and consulting kind of components from early on.

Jim Mayer: Have you ever felt in over your head or like you wanted to just completely blow it all up and walk away?

Steve Shebuski: You yeah. mean, I think, mean, talk about this sometimes when it was, and so my career's kind of led me to where I am now in CEConnect, really driving CPG manufacturing distribution as an industry lead. And I tell folks here, it's like, you know, Back when the technology was probably not as stable and obviously as performant and applications were a little bit more challenging. I mean, when we used to turn things on, I've talked to folks about the white knuckle, go lives and really whether or you're shipping that day and. things of that nature that have been part of my past and you know when you're up for four days trying to help a client because of certain things that have happened You know so many learning lessons and so many times where you're like, I I'm not sure I'm built for this You know, but you know, I think over the years, the business applications have gotten lot, lot better. and so I'm glad I stuck with it. Yeah. I like folks that are on our teams now at goal lives where they're, you know, out to dinner taking photos. And sometimes the old man in me is like, it's not supposed to be like that. You've got to grind it out and be up all night, but it isn't, it isn't certainly the. the case that we've seen anymore, there's, but yeah, I mean, there's lots of lessons learned over years and times when you're like, man, I don't know. This is So for sure.

Jim Mayer: Yeah, I get that. What do you think most people, what do you think is the most common misconception that the average everyday American citizen has about warehouse ⁓ warehouse operations?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah, I think that's a good question. think that, you know, at times like I'll talk to my wife and my sons about some of the things we're working on. you know, in their brains, you know, when they think about warehouse, it's like, how hard like you're, you know, you're like picking brown boxes. ⁓

Jim Mayer: you

Steve Shebuski: moving stuff around it's not that you know, you make it sound like you're into you know neuroscience and you know, so certainly hear that I love getting into you know, some of the nuances of some things that you with folks like that all the time when it's like, you know when you're like one example was When you get to talk to folks like like my my kids like When Christmas comes around and trying to get their stuff before the last day, I'm like, now if you think about the warehouses right now and... You know, they've got all these orders that are piling in because, you know, you guys ordered late and shipping a certain place and it's got a, you know, one place has got to skip four zones to California and one's local. You know, what do you think like all the things that are going on so they can reorganize all these things in a way gives them the best chance to get everybody their stuff by the date that they needed? I'm like, that's, and it's fun to see people think about. yeah, I never really thought about that or you know, I just see that the brown box gets to my door and everyone's happy, right? So yeah, I think it's just like it's you know, that to me that's the that's the kind of fun stuff is ⁓ you know, as you're talking to folks about you know, all the things you've seen over the years that you know, can really drive some of those outcomes that you're looking for.

Jim Mayer: I remember early in my career, I worked for a company called fastenal this was ⁓ 20 plus years ago, right? So we still had fax machines, emails were like very limited. ⁓ And I remember, we had map behind our warehouse desk that had the different zones and how long it would take to get something ⁓

Steve Shebuski: Nice. And then.

Jim Mayer: from point A to point B. And I had that job, it wasn't something I ever thought about. So exactly what you're talking about, right? Like, and 20 ago, we didn't have like Amazon and the way we have now where you expect shit overnight and all of that kind of stuff. Right. but it, it was a big eye opener to see UPS, you know, I in California at the time. If I had to send something to a branch in Iowa,

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. So, we'll see you time.

Jim Mayer: I had to understand how long it was going to take there based on their customer requirement, et cetera, et cetera. It was a wild eye opening experience and that's something you do every day.

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yeah, you think about, yeah, that's a great example. mean, just, you know, all the orchestration of all of those constraints and different things that come into business and everyone has different constraints about where their customers are, where their raw materials are, know, what, you know, what constraints they have in buildings, what constraints they have with their products, what can I ship with, what can I ship with, I was a fit in the box. I mean, all of those things, you know, to be ⁓ considered in this and again going back to the original question. It's just what makes this this this and supply chain. I think the best of you know, the most fun.

Jim Mayer: I love it. So when you're working with, you know, teams out on manufacturing floors, let's keep it specific to manufacturing. When you're working with teams out on manufacturing floors, what are trying to help them build make their lives easier? ⁓ What is that that you do walk us through that?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think, you for us, it always, you know, like it always starts. understanding the business, the people, the and the process and really kind of as we walk through is really understanding, you know, material flow and goods and what's happening. that's, know, so we're ⁓ working with you know, and it's really kind of first getting that sort of gamble walk look of what's happening here, and really looking for those opportunities. What are the opportunities that have to improve to make people's lives more simple on the floor, and make sure we're focusing the ultimate outcomes of whatever they are that... than any company's looking for, whether it's to increase capacity and flow, to reduce inefficiencies and scrap, or be able to increase We have those as our guiding light as we jump there. What are we trying to achieve? And then through those walks, we were just really looking at it through the lens of how do we You know, how do we solve specific problems? And again, for us, always starts with the process and the people, like, how do we, you know, if, you know, how do we think about those two things? And then, ⁓ know, thirdly, how do we apply technology to those things to, to automate improve. help folks that are on the floor make better choices and help to achieve some of the outcomes we're trying to do. So, you know, to me, it always starts as putting your eyes on operations with the of what it is we're trying to do here.

Jim Mayer: Yeah. And so circling back to your of what culture is, right? Your definition of culture. How is what you are helping people build impact the culture on the shop floor?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah, I mean for us You know, you see you see a lots of you see lots of different things these days, you know like for ten years ago, you know manufacturing floors looked a way and like you know the as you as we've moved forward you're getting a a mix of younger folks as well as the people that have been there for 30 years and know where all the bodies are buried, if you will. ⁓ And I think, you bring a younger generation in too, it's also just, really about like, as we improve these things and enable people to...

Jim Mayer: You

Steve Shebuski: to be a part a process and outcomes, but also as they feel a part of it, that they're able to bring their insights to what we're to as team. That's a huge part of this. As I learned in the early those folks that are on the floor, they know so much about where you can these you start to learn with those folks. So I think that's where the culture comes is really, you know, working together with the folks that are doing the job, enabling things through technology and change that allows them to do those jobs more efficiently, which then helps those folks, you know, continue to think about, well, what else can we do here? Like, Wow, that was amazing. What else in this process? And then you start seeing that in any organization where, it's, hey, if I lean in to change, only is, you know, my day-to-day better, I like this, but I have a better ways to contribute. That's when you see the snowball effect in organizations and culture. So that's the stuff that I love. You know, it's like, You know, we, we, you know, we always are trying to, to incrementally improve things. And then as you do that, you see some of that, that impact and in the culture as well. ⁓ mean, yeah, of Jim, ⁓ got of those, right? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the, I think failure. ⁓

Jim Mayer: I love that. a system you've implemented failed before? Yeah

Steve Shebuski: you know, is part these things. You certainly don't want to have failures at enterprise But, you know, I think part of the, as I already talked about the white knuckle of implementations, I think, you know, part of the cool part of technology over the years is that it's become more, a lot more to do things incrementally. Like I don't have to like, replace all the systems on the same day anymore. We can do a lot very like very specific incremental improvements and a lot of in a lot of areas and incrementally move folks on different technologies. But yeah, I mean, you know, at various locations, you're You know, and especially in cultures where you're allowed to try stuff. I mean, I think we're going to talk about this more, but I think that's where, you know, the, innovation where you're allowed to, make mistakes and learn from them. I mean, that's where you're going to see the most game. we've tried things with systems like, Hey, let's, let's try replenishment strategy this way, or, know, Let's try how we're bringing goods to line in a certain way we think is going to optimize time. But in execution, you learn something about, you know, we didn't think of that. And this isn't And we're going to incrementally improve it. It happens, you know, more than where get it perfect. that's just part of... ⁓ part of the game. we, we, um, yeah, a hundred percent, you know, has there been, you know, epic failures, you know, maybe, maybe not epic, but always, always more things we could have done. Um, maybe in any 15 years ago, there was, I'll give you one example that I gave in another one that I always liked to talk about. It was my first time. It just, it's a funny story almost, but it was my first time working with robotics. And we have these ASRS, Storage Retrieval Systems. And we ⁓ created interface, the robots were gonna go get these fire protection pallets and they're about a thousand pounds of pallet. And like right before we started, had somebody asked about some exception scenario, we're about to go live and we changed a of rules to. to, to impact the scenario before we turned the thing on for the first time, turned it on. And I look up and the robots were, we ran like two orders. We're supposed to get like four pallets. Like everything was running. There's at there's some accumulation. So we turned around and there's about a hundred pallets coming out. so we had basically unit of measure, something had happened and it was like, everything's got to come out. We're going to start over.

Jim Mayer: Ha ha ha ha.

Steve Shebuski: happened. you so you learn, you learned in that one, trust your process, you know, don't change things, your testing you know, don't try to do too much. But yeah, there's been, you know, ⁓ lots of examples of that the years.

Jim Mayer: Wow. let's talk about innovation, you alluded to innovation and failure and making mistakes and talk about how you've developed this sense of what innovation means the warehouse space and how taking and the failures have changed your viewpoint on innovation.

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I think, so a couple of things, I mean, you know, as you, you know, ⁓ you get, especially warehouse and manufacturing over the years, you know, there's, you know, you get to a point where there's, kind of know a lot of the playbooks and things, but I think what's been really fun about technology is there's always, you know, new capabilities out there where You know, if you have some things that you can try on a process and do innovation and things of that nature. think that's so important. think right, you know, right now, and I was telling my kids this the other day, I'm I feel very lucky to have the next decade still to be around because the rate of change at the moment. It seems really, really high and it would have been a bummer to miss ⁓ next decade. so to do. think it's gotten exciting for because just as an example, of the things that we, when you think about innovation and think about what a lot of people are working there's... There's robotics and things that are going on I want to talk about, but like as a very specific example, when we think about AI and, and agents and things for me, it was really hard to get my head around, you know, what, what this means in a warehouse. And so, you know, a group of people and we took some use cases with some really smart folks smarter than me on the tech, but it was like, all right guys, you know, warehouse managers are. constantly taking data, looking at throughput and locations and how often they replenish and how many times I have to go to the line from a manufacturing perspective, you know, and they're pivoting it, they're looking at the size of the products, they're trying to minimize travel time, and they're re-slotting to optimize all those things. So what if we teach an agent the math that we all know? Uh, that we do, takes us a while to do, uh, maybe we can, you know, we can teach an agent to do these things and then have it sort of make all these recommendations. And so I was skeptical, but it's like, it's, it's, it's wild sort of the. you know, the capability when you get a really good use case, you've got some new technology, you got folks that understand it and you got folks that understand the process that, Hey, you know, this thing's making interesting recommendations. Some of them don't like we, when we first launched it, was like, ⁓ we forgot to teach it product life cycle. It's recommending things for products that are no longer just are discontinued or things of that nature. And you teach it a little bit more, but that level of innovation is just like, You know, it's really getting to understand some of the tech and like enabling a bunch of folks to it and then apply it to what they know in the operation. It's exciting. I'm like pumped for the decade. It's going to be crazy.

Jim Mayer: Have you come across as as you're working with AI? Have you come across any hallucinations where you've it to think about this thing in this certain way and and it's spit out something that was like catastrophic?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah, it's definitely, know, the way that we've been thinking about it is like in the example I just gave as an example, as we went through it and we actually want some of this for a client, you know, and like, all right, you know, give this a try. Well, you know, we're not going to just take all the recommendations. We're going to look at them and you get into some of these, you know, like you start to learn like how a warehouse or a manufacturing shop floor owner or manager is going to talk and chat with these things and ask for the recommendations. mean, some of these chat strings that we got sent where they were often like, you know, was recommendations of things that like made absolutely no sense products that hadn't even that weren't even actually products. Like where did this get off of, way off base? it's, so we've seen a lot of that and the folks that understand that technology better than I do, like can start to shape how those things work. But it is something that is important, but it's also super fun to watch people like really get their head around, how can... how do these things work how can they make some my life easier to automate things that I shouldn't have to think about every day and bring some of this stuff to me so then I can use my experience to make decisions. That's been really interesting. ⁓

Jim Mayer: Got it. You said you wanted to talk about robots. talk to us about robotics and

Steve Shebuski: No, just think, yeah, I mean, think like, like robotics and automation, Jim, I don't know, you, you, talked to a lot of people, which by the way, I think it's a really cool job that you got, like, get to like, you know, like learn about all kinds of different folks perspectives. But I think, you know, for me, you know, for a long time, especially in U S like robotics is, you know, and automation and things, it was a lot easier to throw. And then some, and sometimes cheaper to throw labor at. a lot of problems. you know, I think that's certainly changing. And so there's, there's all a whole new, in the last six months, ⁓ learned like a whole new set of problems that are happening as we bring robotics and automation to manufacturing and, and warehouse floors. It's like, all right, well now I've got two fleets of robots and do they, do they talk to each other? and you know, and now we're trying to figure out like, how do we, how do we orchestrate the humans, the automation? ⁓ in the last six months, ⁓ I've learned a whole new set of problems are happening as we bring robotics and automation to manufacturing and, and warehouse floors. It's like, all right, well now I've got two fleets of robots and do they, do they talk to each other? and now we're trying to figure out like, how do we, how do we orchestrate the humans, the automation? the different fleets, different vendors. You think about all of those things and it's like a whole new set of problems, the different fleets, different vendors. You think about all of those things and it's like a whole new set of problems, right? Which is cool. It's like everyone worries about, from an AI perspective, there's certainly a lot of discussion about what people, your job and your roles. To me, it's like, just see people changing. you know, what they're thinking about and what they're doing. Managers on shop floors are thinking about orchestration of different things than they did 10 years ago. So another one where it's just the rate of change is really high and people are trying to figure out some new and interesting things to optimize facilities.

Jim Mayer: Yeah, think that and said on this show before robotics, automation, AI, they're just tools. Right. ⁓ And mean, I look back to calculators in school. Right. When I was in high school, you couldn't use a calculator unless it was like a TI 80 or whatever the Texas instrument calculator was.

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah.

Jim Mayer: but they had to like, make sure you didn't store the program for the operation in the calculator and all this stuff. It's a tool, right? I look at when CNC machines came into the manufacturing industry, from bridge ports into more CNC operated, milling machines. And, and then now you've got five axis, right? It's just a tool. ⁓ it's

Steve Shebuski: Right. Yeah.

Jim Mayer: It's the people who refuse to adopt the technology that typically get left behind. not that the tool is going to take your job. It's if you don't adopt the tool, you will lose your job, right? I think it's a mindset shift when it comes to especially to robotics and automation. AI, you know, we still see a lot of ⁓ slop there. ⁓ I know that there's a lot of platforms that

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Mayer: have started to get AI right. But the ones that are publicly available, Claude and chat GPT and the things that people are using to think for them to create for them. Those necessarily the right platforms for human or tools for humans, right? But when you talk about warehouse management, when you talk about ERP, when you talk about AI being used for CAD-CAM programming,

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yeah.

Jim Mayer: that's a tool. And you're not using that tool, then you're not advancing. So I agree with you wholeheartedly, ⁓

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to take this stuff on. I think, you know, it's super important for, you know, and, you know, relating back to culture, it's super important for organizations to really enable people access to the tools, right? You're, you know, like we all have to, if you want an organization to move forward, you have to enable folks to make those mistakes on some of these new tools to learn. For me, I was using, Microsoft came out with their MCP server, which is essentially how it connects to the ERP and you can get to the manufacturing and warehouse. And it wasn't until I, like one day I just. ingrain myself into it of, speaking to, you know, the ERP system and, you asking me to get information and do things for me, through chat. And what's happening, what they did with tool is they were actually showing me what the computers, the AI is thinking. then kind of clicked for me. It's like, it's going through business process models. It's, know, it's actually doing the logic that it already knows of what a, you know, execution step is on the floor, order to cash or whatever it is. And I was like, okay, so now I get it. I get it, not get it, get it, but I get enough of it where now I understand where I need to shape how I'm talking to these things. I need to shape how using the tools and then, you you get better at it. And so I think it's super important. I know you'd agree. It's like getting people access to all of these things. to they can start to try and use it to improve their lives. Like that's where you're gonna get again that sort of snowball effect in your organization ideas on it actually could provide you know.

Jim Mayer: Yeah. So after 25 years of doing what you do, what keeps you in the industry? What keeps you here?

Steve Shebuski: I think, you know, we've talked about it a little bit already, Jim. It's like, it's just, it's, you know, the rate of change of innovation and technology makes it fun to keep going back to the customers and buildings and things that I've already done stuff and continue to try to incrementally improve. I think it's the, so, you know, it's all, it's meeting new folks that are at different points in their journeys. ⁓ that maybe haven't adopted enough or we could, there's still a lot we can do with process. I think it's, you know, with supply chain, there's so many aspects of incremental improvement that, you know, it's just kind of you're into, if you're into problem solving and, and, and creating, you know, that kind of out, those kinds of outcomes, I think, you know, that's what keeps me bringing back and hopefully are coming back and hopefully I can, you know, stay at least connected to the tech. close enough as I get older here that I continue to know to continue to get excited about getting in there and ⁓ about it and trying to think about how we apply as you said, as just a tool to our people and our process to continue make those gains, right?

Jim Mayer: Yep, absolutely. So what Let's go back to your about your life. You've you know, your opening scene was the end of the the underdog story and you're reflecting back. When you get back to that that opening scene at the end of the film move beyond that, what's the legacy you want to leave ⁓ in in your industry? What mark are you trying to make?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great question, Jim. mean, you know, I think, you know, over the years, I'm one of the things that I've learned that I that totally screwed up in the beginning was just, you know, how how much to and just enable men of folks on your team. You know, I think in the beginning I was so passionate about this company we were creating and I cared so much that I it was, you know, that I actually wasn't you know, enabling others to do the work and it was trying to oversee things and, you know, be too into everybody's details. And I think, you know, that just burned me out and it was, we didn't get, we weren't getting great outcomes. I started to change that mindset. And I think, you know, so, you know, and, and really sort of Enable folks on my teams to to to take initiatives to make mistakes drive things themselves super to me and like and I feel like what you know, what's you know from a legacy perspective I hope people feel enabled to hope people feel that work on teams that I'm on or that I that I help manage or that they're they've grown a lot because of the opportunities that they get and ability improve. So ⁓ that's of like a thing used to not necessarily like I was very focused on the outcomes for a really time. And it's also just internally with our own teams just in in focus on people, everybody getting better, which is, you know, found it even be more satisfying, you know, and the twilight here of the career. ⁓ Yeah.

Jim Mayer: That's awesome. Great answer, man. I dig that. Steve, what haven't I asked you that you want to share with the audience? We're wrapping up here.

Steve Shebuski: Oh, yeah, I don't I don't know. think well, number one, I just appreciate the conversation, Jim. think I think from from my perspective. Yeah, I mean, and I like the, you know, relating it back to the movie. think the one thing I was just thinking about from from here is also just as you I'm sure know, is like is just the constant learning is what keeps people coming back. joining MCA here, which has been ⁓ there. culture here has been manufacturing, you know, for 25 years. and I'm learning, you know, I'm in a, in a place now where, where I'm leading and bringing, you know, more process, you know, mass manufacturing, CPG kind of stuff, which is my background, but here they're, they've no building complex machines ⁓ and. month-long project manufacturing. like, it's super cool to like learn entirely new disciplines of folks that have dedicated 25 years of their lives to those types of and how different, you know, and what are the nuances of these things. So I just think, yeah, ⁓ it just something that I would share is just like for ⁓ yourself all your folks there is there's so many different things in supply chain to continue to to dive into of disciplines and opportunities we get to experience here. So keep doing That's important to me and something I would share with your listeners. Yeah.

Jim Mayer: Awesome. Why do people need to listen to this episode?

Steve Shebuski: Ooh, I think...

Jim Mayer: I just thought of that. think that that's going to be something I ask every guest and sorry to spring that on you man, but why should people listen to this?

Steve Shebuski: Yeah. I think, well, I think it would be, I think it's interesting for folks to just, and it's interesting to me, it's why I listen to the different podcasts, yours and other supply chain ones is like, there's so many different perspectives. Mine is my own unique story of where things came from and starting from a unique place and growing into various things. I always think that that's important. think that You know, it's also for folks that are listening, it's just like what, you know, as from a consulting perspective, if you're a company running a manufacturing, like what are your consultants thinking about and what should they be thinking about? I think that might be interesting for some of your listeners coming from that perspective. you know, as they're, know, and what, kind of outcomes they should be driving and how, how they should be looking at it. and I think for anybody that's joining, that's entering the workforce right now. This might be interesting as well as just like, you what are people's journeys not to get impatient, be patient, learn the work, right? And then understand what are really Talk to the folks the floor of your new companies. Talk to people. You're going to learn a lot. And then start to, and it'll you apply it to your job and get better.

Jim Mayer: Yeah, I love that. Thank you. Steve, thanks for being on today. This was an awesome conversation. I really appreciate the conversation and your time that you spent with us. I mean, you're a busy dude, you didn't have to spend an hour talking with me. So so thanks for spending some time with me today.

Steve Shebuski: loved it. I love with folks about supply chain. So happy do it anytime. Love your stories and perspective as well, Jim. So thanks so much for having me.

Jim Mayer: Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve's shows us that reliable supply chains affect everyone every day. His work shows how ⁓ lives people and in teams, and sometimes systems, the people and the teams are responsible for those systems. manufacturers, the people out there listening, rely on the steady hands. to the technology implemented and and out there. So this work matters quietly in the background, but it's also so visible in whether every day we see success or failure. So again, thank you, Steve. Ladies and gentlemen, please rate and review the show. Until next time, keep making things.

Steve Shebuski: it.