Jim Mayer: What happens when a precision job shop stops making parts and starts building their identity? Kyle Ellis transformed a machining business into torque manufacturing, proving that craftsmanship, clarity, and strategic thinking are what scale modern manufacturing. Hello and welcome to the Manufacturing Culture Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Mayer. I want to thank you all for being here today. part of this journey, sometimes ⁓ or ⁓ But I appreciate you being here regardless. Whatever brought you here, thank you for being here. If you like this show, please take a moment and go on whatever platform that you're on, Apple, Spotify, any of the hundreds of smaller podcast platforms, rate and review the show. This isn't for my ego. It's not for Kyle's ego. This is so more people find this conversation. Every time you rate and review, I don't understand algorithms, but every time you do it, It rockets us up the charts and more people are able to find the show, which means that more people are learning about culture and manufacturing. And for those of you who like this show, also check out our other shows. We've got Work But Make It Human, podcast about ⁓ frameworks its authors and consultants on how we can make the world of work more human. We've got Storytellers, where I get on stage and get drunk with my friends and we tell stories about the industry. And then we've got the manufacturing connector, our YouTube channel where we explore the tools and technology that are shaping modern manufacturing. So we're really excited to have you all here today. I am in Ogden, Utah. I'm used to, for those of you who follow this, I'm not used to being on site. I do a lot of these ⁓ remotely, I'm Ogden, Utah and couldn't pass up an opportunity to interview. Kyle Ellis of Torque Manufacturing. Kyle, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today, Great. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Thanks for being here. Thanks. Yeah. He may be one of those unwilling participants, but he didn't have a choice. Our friend, Emily Wilkin said, Hey, Kyle, here doing this. And here we are. So Kyle, you've something really cool. Walk me around the shop. It's a really great shop that people hear. ⁓ very engaged, super into what they're doing. You can tell there's a lot of pride ⁓ you all are building here. And we'll get into your on manufacturing, your thoughts on the shop in a minute, but we're gonna have a little bit of fun first. ⁓ And last at dinner, I gave you a preview of what this question was for the first time, ⁓ and you looked like... you weren't going to enjoy this question at all, but I'm going to ask it anyway. So Kyle, your life were a movie, what genre would it be? Who play you and what's the opening scene? Yeah, I thought I'm one of these guys that doesn't watch a lot of movies. it's not like I just soak in and to the movie. And so I had a hard time really relating with the the genre, the actors and whatnot. And I just to go, I have to go and say, well, what do I watch and what fits Kyle? And comes back. The genre is a documentary. I like it. I like it. That does fit you amazingly well. because there's no like main character, no actor outside of a narrator, who narrates your story, the story of your life. I wanted to tell you why it shows documentary. Okay. Well, don't let me get in the way. are my thoughts, but you know, I feel like, you know, most people when they look at a documentary, the majority of the people I know are like, documentary boring. Yeah. And I think that's probably the way a lot of people look at me. ⁓ that's okay. It's okay. I'm comfortable with that. But where I'm going with this is What's beautiful about a documentary is if you really get engaged in the documentary and you really take the time ⁓ what they're presenting. And you usually finish the documentary really feeling like, wow, that was something I didn't know. you learn and grow more from it, I think. And so I hope that's kind of my boring personality. If you give me time, I'll... Maybe I'll show you a little more depth and a little more. I think that is 100 % appropriate and fair. I yeah, I first glance people look at documentaries and like, do I really want to spend my time watching that? Right. But as they get invested in the story, it becomes something bigger than what they thought it was maybe going to be originally. And that's. what I know about you so far after meeting you a couple times and spend some time with you. I think that's a very fair assessment. So I'm going to leave the rest of the questions off the table because I think you gave a lot of thought and intention behind that answer and I appreciate so. Kyle second icebreaker that I ask every guest is what does culture mean to you? It's just the. kind of the, you know, everything has culture, of people create sort of their own rules and ways do and work together. And it's kind of finding that cohesive ways to those ideas together where, you know, you're all and growing and helping the hard times and the times. And you have a way to deal with all of that, I think. just. Yeah, from the way the sense of humor, the humor that exists in the shop to the way we handle real issues and even struggles when not just in the shop, but personally and how people support one another. It's all part of culture to me. And so I love Kyle, let's let's talk about you. This is all this ⁓ shows about ⁓ my What? What first drew you to the trade? How did you get into machining? So I've always kind of been a guy growing up. liked was a guy that liked to build Legos. as I got older, I tinkered with motors and building things. And I've always of just enjoyed the mechanics and mechanical things. And so I was planning on being an engineer and was ⁓ had the opportunity to wear, used to dirt bike with a guy that owned a shop. he told me if I wanted to be a better engineer, to be a machinist. And so he had to have a job and hired me out of high school. from there, I just kind of just ⁓ it and really kind of became, you know, was fortunate. It found me. I didn't have to find my thing, really. So that's kind of the story. How you found it? It got into machining. kept you here? Just making things as cool. There's technologies that just you from software and the things can do to well, you strip all out away. What I love about it is you're taking something from someone's head, turn it into something whether it's a CAD model or and get to be part of process to convert that from the engineer's mind or the inventor's mind to the model to reality. And that turns all kinds of parts that and benefit the world. So that's what gets exciting. But even that, Just like being out there working with my hands getting dirty, even though I don't get to do as much as I used to, but I enjoy taking something from real bland form and turn it into something really special and, and, and useful. So awesome. Your company that we're in manufacturing, start out as blue sun manufacturing. Was there a moment, turning point that made you realize that Blue Sun didn't capture the brand? And was that? Well, the brand was the Blue Sun brand was centered more around lighting products and and that's something that started pursuing, but it just didn't work out. And we just realized, you know, it's not a fit that it's not a brand that fit what were doing. We want we weren't designing and innovating lighting products. We were actually just making parts for customers. so we just wanted to have something that sort of was related more to mechanics ⁓ a mechanical term. so torque is what we come up with that, you know, have a shop full of guys that like to do a lot of outdoor stuff from dirt bikes and snowmobiling and even fishing. know, you think about row ⁓ reeling on real, you know, there's torque and all of that evolved. And so just kind of fit what we do outside of the shop and what we do inside the shop. Obviously in machining, there's a lot of torque involved in tearing real metal off of parts. how much did your personal values as the leader of then Blue Sun, now Torque, shape what the brand became? as ⁓ Because a lot of times our brands the we have, right? In some way, shape or form. Mine is a circle, ⁓ logo, right? chose that because I was shaped by the ⁓ 90s. I was kid in the ⁓ 90s, right? And Varney France logo was something I fondly, right? So that shaped the ⁓ of my brand. But the ⁓ that built my brand around is a massive part of what I value, just being an authentic human being. So Torque obviously has a lot of influence in the brand itself. You worked with a friend, Emily Wilkins, to get this Torque brand up and launched. But you able to pinpoint values that you hold ⁓ ⁓ branding of Torque? Yeah. As I look at the know, number one, it's simple. It's the single syllable Torque spelled T-O-R-Q. And that's we like to do is keep it simple. It's ⁓ It's got block image shows some strength and resilience and something been part of our core value and. personality the shop, you know, as we've gone through the high good times and COVID and ups and downs and it's required lots of resilience and persistence and that that red and strong image of portrays that. So yeah, and then when we were, I was Blue Sun, you know, that was in a different world, different. I had a partner at the time and it just never totally felt like it was nor guys that I employ. ⁓ And we wanted something that could be our own that, that yeah, showed those values that we just talked about. Hard work, strong, persistent, resilient, simple. I Walk me and us through what kind products you make here at Torque. Who are some of your customers that you can name and what kind of parts are you making for them? So we deal with pretty every industry. We've done a lot of work in aerospace. We have a customer. ⁓ Stadler rail their Swiss company and they put their first first manufacturing plant in the US here in Salt Lake City and okay I was to get in really early on with them Which is a cool store for another day, but We've done work with most of the major manufacturers here locally, but we've now expanded more into out-of-state to more aerospace companies. They're even outer We've done quite a bit of that too. So what kind of, I mean, the old of manufacturing, and manufacturing, you would pull up a website and it was a list of capabilities and a list of their machines, right? We've moved past that, but I think a lot of people still are interested in what kind of machinery you have. So what kind of machinery do you have down in your shop? So we're a full CNC machine shop. have pretty much all the technology that's available to have from with two axis lathes and three axis mills to full five axis with horizontal milling machines, mill turns, done in one. type machines. automation that supports some of those machines really good equipment. We've kind of to DMG Mori equipment, is a really solid brand in itself itself and competes well. so, yeah, we have the technology and equipment to do pretty much what anybody can do. We're not like big, big manufacturing. Most of what we Weed machine will fit in a 12 inch cube. Got it. Unless it's a longer plate or something. But so it's the equipment that fits that. Yeah. Awesome. Where one of the things that jumped out at me from your website was the value that your team adds to the customer experience. And so walk us through some of that. What is the value that you feel? your team brings to the experience that the customers, your customers have buying parts from you? Well, hopefully, in my opinion, it's my job to help the buyer not worry. If we're doing our job, then they're getting their parts on time and then meeting the needs of their customers, and whether it be their manufacturing line or a Boeing or Airbus. plane manufacturer or something. So the way we do that is we, I'm still, this comes back from the days of the shop I began at. One of my mentors at that shop, always ⁓ relationship, relationship. In this day and age where everything's so disconnected through emails and texts and. We still try to pretty regular contact with our customers. And form a relationship that's more than just getting parts. all working together to accomplish the common And that relationship, my customer support team, spent a career. He was outside of machining. know anything about machining. But he is an excellent. excellent at just talking and getting to know people and and and we're real. We do our best to tell the truth and meaning sometimes we say we're going to be on time and we're not happen but that's the honest truth. So it sounds like you're intentionally building culture. not only with your team here internally, but with your customers externally, right? You want them to have a good experience and a good relationship and feel the culture that you've built here. Is that an appropriate statement? Yeah. So how I mean, every company has a culture, whether you intentionally build it or not, right? There's a culture out on a shop floor. You're been in a lot of shops in your career. What's it like to intentionally the culture that you ⁓ want. It's cool create but I have to go back and say, you know, I think a big part of the culture is not trying to shape and ⁓ and create It's the people that fit you. And I think it along with the customer as well, when you speak of customer culture. It's finding those that have the similar... I think big of the culture is not trying to ⁓ shape and form ⁓ and ⁓ create it. It's finding the people that fit you. And think it goes with customer as well, It's finding those customers that have similar... values and live by the similar principles of work ethic and ⁓ honesty and integrity and all that stuff. I don't know how much I built the culture other than I just found the people that fit. You hired the right people. values live by the similar principles of work ethic and honesty and integrity and all that stuff. So I don't know how much I built the culture other than I just found the people that fit. You hired the right people. And not say it hasn't evolved and we work on that. Sure. But it's finding the right people to fit. what we're trying to. So have you found those people? mean, that's one that a lot of shops ⁓ have struggled I've been in the industry for 26 years at this point. And I've seen shops ⁓ hire anybody who fog a mirror, right? They had a heartbeat, they were hired. But that's not what you've done here. You been intentional. You've hired people that fit that want to be here that enjoy showing up that have that sense of pride. How are you finding those people? To be honest, probably 90 percent, maybe 90 percent of the guys ⁓ for me are all from word of mouth. It's usually they've known some. No My main management team, I've known a lot of them. for many years. But I've hired somebody, they like it, they know a friend that's in the industry that doesn't like where they're at. Why don't you come try this place out? And they come and they stay. And it's not just those that have been in the industry. There's been, hey, I got a friend that's stocking shelves and not really enjoying his job at night. Would you be willing to give him a shot? And I always say if you If they're will, they got the work ethic and they can learn what we're trying to teach them, then they can succeed. And we got to make sure they're wired for the job and everybody can grasp all the concepts. But for the most part, they come in and do a good job. And it's ⁓ mostly word of mouth, very little advertising. Good for you. That's awesome. What advice you give to Younger Kyle Ellis. about starting a shop. Don't. No, I love ice. When I started a shop, I always wanted my own business and we talked machine kind of just me. It is a hard business. Yeah. So no, it's going to be hard. There's, know, one you're dealing with titanium, the it's aluminum. It's big part, part, wide open tolerances, super tolerances. And as much as we to predict and plan ⁓ the best we can, you it doesn't always, the future of the crystal ball isn't always that clear. And so it's up and down. And so be prepared for that. That's probably the biggest thing is be prepared for things not happening. exactly the way you planned, but it is a super exciting ride. You have the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. I love it. I love it. What's the thing you're most proud of over the course of your career? Probably the most thing I'm most proud is just. It goes beyond money, having shop. That's all great. just that jumped in without lots of experience and lots of opportunities and come out I'm proud that I haven't always just let fear get in my way. There's of jobs that maybe we shouldn't have taken. But because of that, there's lots of jobs that most or a lot of shops maybe wouldn't have taken, but we did and we succeeded. I'm proud that. That's something I I go to my dad. He was a guy that fixed everything. And I have to say, my success I look at that and say you don't know that's what he's teaching me it's not like he was me a lesson that but it was more he showed me that you don't need to be afraid to try to fix the dishwasher sure or fix your car and and that's kind of the mentality I've always had is just let's give it a try we might fail ⁓ If we do, we'll learn from it and that will be better for it. And if we succeed, all the better. That's awesome. Kyle, your son ⁓ just working here. You earlier about people who may not have had exposure. Your a music major here Utah State, right? yet here he is coming in a couple days a week, earn some money. Is this something that you see him getting bit by as like a bug that this could be his future? Or is there another one of your children that think may carry that on? I'm not sure he'll get the bug for manufacturing, but I think he'll get the bug for, you know, we've had conversations. We live 40 minutes from the shop, and so it's a good opportunity to just have conversations. you know, he's already got the bug of entrepreneurship. And you know, I don't necessarily want to work for somebody. And. just excited about entrepreneurship and businesses as If I can help feed part what he's maybe we've talked about making guitars and different things just for fun as hobbies, but who knows? Maybe it could turn into something where. It's a business that's related to machining and manufacturing that's also related to his music. And that would be an amazing who knows? ⁓ would be cool if that happens. I do have a couple other, few other kids that... will see their paths. kind of have similar traits as I did when I was a kid. I like to make things and they're using their printing stuff on the 3D printer every day and selling it at their school to their friends and stuff. So who knows? It would be fun to have that happen. Awesome. Kyle, what's the legacy that you want to leave behind? boy. Ultimately, strip away all that we've talked about and I just want to be known as somebody that worked hard, that cared about the people he worked with and the people he worked for. was ⁓ an honest man that did his to leave his mark the best he could. If I can steal a little bit of that. did and others to go in and go after what they want to do and do it. I love it. love it. Kyle, the last question I ask every guest and it's not a question you have to answer. So if you don't have an answer for it, you can say I don't have an answer and I can just move into my clothes. What haven't I asked you that you want to share with the audience today? going to bring it back to manufacturing and machining in particular. The industry itself has done a great job at ⁓ and marketing the industry. Very people know what machining is. The schools don't have it. Any schools used to have, back in the they'd have wood shop and they'd have a machine shop. They pulled those out schools and... an industry that's awesome. It's really fun. Even all the AI stuff, it's going be exciting to see what AI can do for it and all the But there's, ⁓ me, not a exciting industry if ⁓ like to make things and be a part of that. So that's probably the biggest thing is I always like to promote like machining is awesome. is awesome. And I think more people would enjoy it. They just knew more what was available. I appreciate what you're doing to help promote that. Thank you. It's the coolest I've ever had behind being a dad. Being a dad's been the coolest job I've ever had, but is a pretty cool job too. Kyle, thank you very much for being here. Really appreciate time that you've spent with me and the conversation that we've had. I've enjoyed getting to know you, who you are as human being. You're a good dude and just appreciate what you're to this industry. So thank you. That's super nice of you to say, thanks. Yeah. If you think that's nice, wait until you read what I wrote. ⁓ Kyle Ellis matters because he represents a new wave of American manufacturing leaders who refuse to let precision shops be invisible or commoditized. Under his leadership, torque manufacturing shows that identity, strategic clarity and craftsmanship aren't just buzzwords the marketing world. They're the foundation of a resilient, growing manufacturing business. Kyle and his story speaks directly to workers, shop owners, and aspiring manufacturers about how to stand out in an industry that too often competes on price rather than pride. By elevating both the work and the people who do it, Kyle demonstrates a path for the future of manufacturing that's rooted in dignity, relevance, and thoughtful growth. Thank you all for being with me today. I've really, really enjoyed this conversation. Again, if you could take two seconds, go rate and review the show. really appreciate it. Till next time, keep making things.