Claire Day: So welcome to this first episode of Thresholds and Crossroads. And for my first recording, I had the fantastic Gru Huddlemark on. And Guru and I have known each other for a number of years through containers that we've taken together as accountability buddies and growing into a friendship and working as colleagues and organising retreats together and group containers together. And it was such a pleasure to have her on. And in the beautiful month of July with this Mercury retrograde and using the new podcast technology, we had found because Guru was recording from her gorgeous summer cabin, which is up on Heatra, which is a an island off kind of the west of Norway, about halfway up. And the reception wasn't great, and the video was coming and going in the sound. So we decided in our wisdom that we would turn off our cameras. And we would just record voice for this one so that we could actually go ahead and do it. And what transpired afterwards is that for some reason, though we had our cameras turned off and couldn't see each other, it was still recording our video. And what resulted was the most authentic videoing of two people having a conversation not knowing that they're being recorded. So each of us is looking into the distance and listening and responding. But with a little bit of a time lag because of the quality of the audio coming through live. But this fantastic podcast app actually records from the source. So the sound is perfect from Garou's side, it's perfect from my side, and you have a video of us completely oblivious to the fact that we're being recorded. And yeah, it came across so lovely that I think what was shared in it was important to go ahead with as opposed to re record. We would have been missing some of the the conversations that came through the first time. So I've decided to go withhead with it as it is. And with that in mind, this is the intro and a little bit about Guru for you to know a bit more about her. Gru is a life artist, soul alignment guide, and evolutionary midwife for sensitive, awakened women, standing at the edge of profound personal thresholds. Gru brings 15 years of deep personal healing, embodiment work, and passion illumination into a body of work that is as much lived as it is taught. Her work sits at the intersection of soul evolution, generational pattern breaking, embodied presence. The ancient wisdom traditions she's woven into a living practical framework. Aroma point therapy, plant medicine, human design, restorative yoga, mindfulness, and biodynamic touch, not learned in a classroom, lived from the inside. Gru believes that we can only truly guide others into training we have walked ourselves, not fully healed, but having seen it, accepted it, and made enough peace with it to hold space for another without judgment or fear. Twenty years ago, after losing her husband, Guru painted forty-one oil paintings in a solo exhibition, a raw outpouring of grief, hope, and the fierce will to be present even in darkness. She's now creating her second exhibition, Naked, fully dressed, a layered, living exploration of the survival patterns we wear, the parts of ourselves we've kept hidden, and the extraordinary freedom that waits in finally being seen. Her current offering, The Threshold, is a deeply personal, one-on-one journey for women who are ready to cross what they cannot cross alone, guided by someone who knows the territory from the inside. Guru believes that the sensitive, deeply feeling women of this world, the ones who've done the work, who see what others cannot see, who hold space for everyone else, are precisely the women the next paradigm needs in full expression. She's here to walk beside them. as they make it across those thresholds. I hope you enjoy the episode. Let me know what you think. First off, I'm just so excited and delighted to have you here with me today. And for anybody listening, this is Guru Hattlemark who's joining me today. And it's special because it's the first ever episode that I'm recording of Thresholds and Crossroads. So thank you for being here, Guru. Gro Hatlemark: it feels so special to be invited to join you on this very first episode too. Thank you. Claire Day: Yeah. And we we're gonna go with our cameras, but Gru is up on the west coast, the kind of southwest coast of Norway, such a big country, on a beautiful island with changeable weather and storms and sunshine and all of the things that make for internet not flowing very well. So we have gone for an audio for this one. Try and get the Gro Hatlemark: Yeah. Claire Day: best out of the sound. I suppose a starting point would be an introduction of how we know each other. And Gro Hatlemark: Mm-hmm. Claire Day: we would have first met through Tiffany, Carol, our mentor put to both of us over the years. and through working with essential oils and aromapoint therapy in particular. and what started as accountability buddies and and a friendly face in in the community has blossomed into a beautiful friendship and partnership in teaching and guiding people with oils. But tell me a little bit, tell you know, tell people listening a little bit about where your journey. began because you've had lots of different roles and and jobs and and movement within your work life over the years. Gro Hatlemark: Mm, yes. so many crossroads and so many thresholds. so Yeah, it I think actually you summed it up very well because it is the journey of just being in a community and then moving you said it to yourself like moving from behind the s behind the camera and then open the camera and then actually participate and then moving in front and actually leading and teaching and holding the space as well. So I guess that's actually a very beautiful sum up of my own journey as well. But it's it's Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: changed so many times and you know I just as a projector in human design and and it just gave me so much permission to do what I have actually always done. Just follow my that's cool. Damn curious. I'll go down this rabbit hole. this is wow that that was so cool. I want to learn more about that. And it took me down for instance the rabbit hole of human design and I was never planning to make a career out of that. When I started painting, I just I'm just feeling something, I just have to play with the colours and I started painting. I was not planning to have an exhibition, you know. when I start. So that's kind of where the coolest, most impactful journeys and crossroads and changes for my own career and path is happening is when I'm allowing myself to actually go all the way into my passions and inspirations. Yeah. And not knowing where they how or where or where they will lead. There's no control there. Claire Day: Yeah. No, but it th it is in the allowing and I think just touching on, you know, the the varied different career paths that you could have been on from jewellery making to fitness to you know, there's been really bold transitions into completely new way of doing things. Gro Hatlemark: Yeah. Claire Day: That's yeah, so impressive. Gro Hatlemark: But it's cool actually because i because that's long before my own spiritual or healing journey at all. Like I I didn't know what to do after school, so I started to work in kindergarten just to kind of have a breather and think. And in the kindergarten I was just playing and having such a good time with these kids. I was almost like one of the kids that was had to be called into the meal times. And so I was the playing playing yeah. kindergarten, I don't know what you call it in English, but and yeah Claire Day: A fun one. Gro Hatlemark: and and then suddenly I just I had a boyfriend at that time that wanted a ring and I bought a ring to him and it was such crappy handcraft and I just I just I had just had this thought in my head I could do that. I could do that, I could fix that. And then goldsmith. Never thought about that. And I and I researched it and I found a beautiful school in a little town south in Norway, Frederiksda, and which had a really wonderful craftsman's school and but the application had actually gone out. So I just called them and I said, I wanna be a goldsmith and I said Well, we're private, you can send in we haven't had you have you haven't done the selection yet. Send in three drawings of your hands and why and an application and we'll have a look at it. And I was taken in. And and it you know, it's just like this I just I just knew and I just just followed, I didn't think. If I had been starting to think, I would never even think it was possible, you know? And then it was yeah, that was my best three years down there in that craft school and becoming a goldsmith. Yeah. Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: So it's like it's in synchronicities and possibilities opening and then just grabbing them. Claire Day: before you even had studied human design, wasn't it a it was like an intuition there, which is how you should be following things before you knew that's how you should be following your your instincts. Gro Hatlemark: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I always done it. And then human and then when you start to sort of build you you know, and I got into essential oils and I wanted to sort of get out of the hamster wheel of the ordinary ninety five and started to study human design and ooh, I I'm I'm re I I just had all this compassion for myself like, I understand, I'm not I'm not made for that. I'm made for something different. And it makes totally sense. And then allowing myself to experiment with another way of doing life, it just gave me so much permission to actually trust it. And you know when you start to you don't want to make a career an entrepreneur and it it You want it because you're following your passion, you want to do something else. And you can be just as stuck in the old paradigm, your old conditioning, how to do things, how work hard and everything, even though you love it and it's it's your passion essential oils for me, I was still exhausted and almost burned out of that as well. So human design allowed me to kind of experiment with different ways of permitting and allowing myself again to like what I feel and how I actually always done it is is my way. And this is also how I do my work and yeah, my life. Different. Claire Day: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. And With that in mind, is there something that prior to understanding how you best work and how you best make decisions that seem to be of importance to you, but now that you understand yourself better and your priorities have shifted or your understanding of how you work has shifted, is something that you don't prioritize or you don't you don't value anymore that you used to put a huge importance on? Gro Hatlemark: Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Yeah, I've been I've been sitting with your questions and it's super interesting because it's just again allowing the intuition and whatever the first like things that come up like, that's potent. And and what came up with that question is like the identity of a teacher. Because I did, you know, I was a aerobic instructor first at a fitness center and then I took a yoga I I went into yoga education. I was in this survival pattern actually, like a mechanism in myself that I had to know to feel safe. I had to plan and I I thought that I had to have the answers. This is very unconscious at that time, you know, that I had to give solutions and be the teacher and lead. And I I loved it. I loved being a teacher. I thought that I really wanted to be a teacher, and it made completely sense at that time. It was how I understood service and how I could be of service and how I found my worth, how I felt worthy when I could teach people something, and how it meant to show up for others, like being in that role. But you know, then and especially maybe when we had our retreat, it's like it's been but I also we talked about this before, our times now are really changing our society and there's so much breaking down and new things coming up. But especially at our retreat clear and starting to really collaborate, from this new consciousness of co creation I will call it actually. Another understanding of worth and value and and collaboration and co-creation. that was like a mutual evolution for myself and also for the people, the beautiful women at our retreat. It was happening in real time together. It was no one that really had the answers. We had a framework and we were holding the the space, but we were all doing it together. Because we were fully in it together. And I just that's that's kind of this is this I love this way of doing it. Because I was fueled, I was filled up instead of being exhausted or giving giving, you know, it was yeah, sacred reciprocity, giving and taking and just being nourished by the field together. And I just love that. So it changed Claire Day: In that. Gro Hatlemark: very much. Claire Day: Yeah, yeah. Gro Hatlemark: And I guess you know, this is not something that happens from one thing to another. It's a it's a process that you kind of y yeah, go grow into you shed something, you release some beliefs and then you adapt and grow into a new story of yourself, maybe. And then the most powerful Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: thing and what I'm saying now is that I walk beside people. I think that's the best Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: service and value that I I don't have the answers. We all have our own answers on the inside, but we really need the safe space and non judgmental space to be able to explore and express and experience it. Let all parts come up. And that's where change happens. Claire Day: Yeah, yeah. That's Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, and that's the value we can give each other is to hold the space non judgment judg non judgmental space for each other. Claire Day: Yeah. And I think certainly f for myself and a lot of of women that have come into spaces that I've been in, there can be a lot of wounding around spaces with other women and judgment. And Gro Hatlemark: Mm. Mm-hmm. Claire Day: it is a new level up to be able to be in those spaces for a lot of people to be able to be themselves but also to be able to maintain their own integrity with regard to how they hold their energy, you know, to support each other without this over Over almost spreading of the the energy out. I know we've both been in containers where there has been a definite shift in that. Gro Hatlemark: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Taking full responsibility yeah. It's yeah, it's it's about the self-responsibility. It's not that we're not react like we do. That's relationships is the most powerful transformational tool, you know. That's where we are mirroring and reflecting each other and see Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: can see parts of ourselves that we wouldn't see without another human being reflecting it back. either by a project it can be good and bad, you know, it's challenging also and it's not to take it personal but really just use it as mirrors. Claire Day: Mm. is there a r relationship in particular that you feel has changed you or that you're changed at from from being in that relationship, whether it's past or or present? Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, it was and I was like, do I wanna share this? It's like I really want to stay at edge of integrity but also like vulnerable and in Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: integrity. because there was a really, Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: really powerful transformation in a friendship that just suddenly and painfully ended. And for me it was completely Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: out of nowhere from where I was standing and it shook me And I I it was such a grief and it was really really painful. And it was also, it was not not just the the you know the loss of a friendship, a really valuable, beautiful friend, it was also what that reflected back to myself that I had never ever seen in myself. I was I wasn't aware of that I was protecting myself. It was these unconscious childhood learned protection mechanisms at holding people at an arm's length distance, you know, while I was thinking I was fully present and giving. I was keeping people away from myself. And I was also in that, you know, a controlling kind of thing that I thought that I need to have all the answers to feel safe and accepted. And I thought that I had to be the one who knew. And you know, that's not very very nice to be with. So it was deeply shameful when it kind of just came back in a storm on me and I I didn't see it. And but it's the shame, it's exactly where we we need to look and open and stay with and accept it, that it can actually show me the things that I I have denied, suppressed, yeah, that I didn't want to go there. And it you know, it's now it's one of my greatest gifts that I can actually sit in that space of not knowing in a completely different way than I could before. I was I was not going there, as you know in the Roma Point Walter course that we took as well with the void space. It's that kind of yeah. Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: Having the courage to stay there and just be in uncomfortable situations and not having Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: to fix it, know the answers, control or anything. It's just like it trusting that that this is exactly where we need to be right now. So it initiated me, that that kind of Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: break of that friendship initiated me into most important inner journeys of my own life. And it in it kind of it opens Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: the door for the teacher, Sean, you also know, to come into my life. I don't think I would find him before I had actually opened that door into myself of my own protection mechanisms. Claire Day: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I think the recognition of of grief showing up in our lives, not just in relation to actual physical death, but in relationship to transitional times in our lives, you know, whether that's moving into adulthood or motherhood or you know, the the loss of of who we were as a person before, or those are relationships that aren't ending in death but are ending in the end of the relationship can bring a lot of grief with them and loss and it's not always deemed acceptable to feel that grief or that loss for it. but I think it's important that we understand that that's a natural process. Gro Hatlemark: Hmm. And it's not linear. What I've learned that grief is not a linear Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: process. It can It can it can really be stormy and strong and and everything and then sometimes, you know, in my own grief process that was a loss, an actual loss of my husband, but it was I felt sometimes that I just had to put a lid on it because I just had to be normal for a while. I I just I needed a break. So it was like consciously, unconsciously putting like choosing not to go there and then obviously it comes back. the process kind of has to be digested in some way, but it can take time and in layers and in different Different depth and I don't know the Intensity maybe. Yeah. Claire Day: Yeah. Waves. Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, waves. Claire Day: Yeah, that wash up. Yeah, yeah. You mentioned one of your mentors that came up and was was possible to so you know, allowed in and be so impactful because of these different layers of grief that you've experienced in your life. And would you I mean I know that Sean isn't the only obviously Tiffany's been a mentor to you over the years. Wha who who is there one that you could pick out that has had the most impact on you or is it a journey of who you needed at that particular time and therefore there's many mentors? Gro Hatlemark: no, it's those two. It is I will say it's those Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: too I I have absolutely had a lot of beautiful mentors and I think just like relationships is that comes and goes and it comes at the right time and exactly what you need and some of shorter times and some are longer. But Tiffany was the first one that I really I really felt that she saw me. It she's the first person I felt that really saw me and the thing is that I you know after these protection layer mechanisms reas like dive deep dives I've done. It's because she could see. She's like I call her my soul doula. She just saw straight through all the fear, all the pr performance, all the protection. She just saw through everything and just pierced right into my soul. She just sees that light, that soul light in every human. And I didn't see it myself. I had hidden my own soul so deep in myself that I couldn't find or have touched with that part of myself because of my upbringing. So I would never find the way back to my own soul if she hadn't lit lit up the road so to speak and showed me and I felt it like it was a deep felt sense of being seen in a way I've never felt seen before. And it sh I kind of see her like holding the lantern Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: like in front of me and showing me me my soul's path out of the hiding kind of. And then Sham, you know, came in to actually Open, move, dissolve, accept, allow. All these layers that I had built around that cage to not bestow like to not have my soul stolen from me. And he helped me to kind of open all those doors and shift and yeah, see those protection layers and actually honor them and be grateful for them because they did protect me. Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: I needed them but they're not helpful anymore. Yeah. So Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: absolutely those are my most powerful and I'm I'm feel like I'm owing them my my life, like not physical life but my creative and spiritual and Claire Day: Enjoy. Gro Hatlemark: my joy is everything. I would live a completely different life if I Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: hadn't done that journey with both of them. And I'm still like I'm still in they're both in my world Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: still and I I appreciate them so much and yeah. Forever grateful. Claire Day: Mm. And I mean, you have your own particular flavor of childhood in which you had that need to protect yourself. But you know, there's many different reasons why people feel they need to be and act a certain way to survive and to get by. And finding somebody who sees you for you. and sees beneath those layers to that original blueprint of who you actually are and your potential is profound. Gro Hatlemark: Hmm. Yeah. Claire Day: And what if you had to think over your life so far, you know, is there a point where you feel was the biggest threshold or cross out that crossroad that you had to to pass through or to to decide on a path that had to be taken? What would you put that as so far? Gro Hatlemark: I feel like I've just been crossing thresholds my whole life. There's so many identity shifts and changes and Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: as we just touch in on career path, like there's so many but and we touched on on many different aspects, but I I you know, again it's Tiffany though, but it's It's actually one that really changed and that was in an instant almost. But it it was an instant and it wasn't. It started six months earlier. But anyway, it kind of totally changed my understanding of myself as a creator of my own life. and it happened on my cabin Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: where you were visiting me. That's my absolutely favorite place. and it started as I said six months earlier. But I you know I can come back to that space, that feeling of open it in my chest and like everything is possible. You know, it was a profound heart opening moment actually. And you know then I've to been doing yoga heart opening postures for ten years and never be near the experience of just sitting there and just knowing and having the full-blown visual experience of our heart opening. But anyway, it started with Tiffany again and and she had this offering of a very intimate container that I like totally wanted to I felt myself there and I was not aware of the price point that she was holding because she has prices had at least prices portal and I've never invested that amount of money in myself. So, in that call, like that call to kind of speak about the offering, and the price came up, and just everything in me collapsed, and all the walls and the shame came flooding in, and I felt so stupid for even thinking that I could allow myself to believe that I would be in that position or anything. All the lack, all the limiting beliefs, all the generational patterns around worth and money, scarcity. everything it arrived at once but Tiffany you know her she held it so beautifully and it was no judgment and no agenda it was just kind of Yeah, it was an initiation. I think she knew and I know now, but she knew then that it was kind of an initiation for me and exactly what I needed to be able to see see that in myself. And then six months later, in another co journey with her, but in a online course, I was sitting in my cabin just looking at Tiffany on the screen and fully immersed in the beautiful online space and and the teachings. And then I just had this knowing, bone deep knowing, like I'm going to Sardinia, I'm going to one off retreat with Tiffany. I don't know how, I have absolutely Claire Day: Mm-hmm. Gro Hatlemark: no idea how, but I was stuck my whole soul and and physical bo I was smiling in every cells of just knowing I was going. And I've never had that experience before. Claire Day: Mm-hmm. Gro Hatlemark: Never ever. And So it just opened, as I said, in my chest and I went out on the porch on my my cabin veranda and I took my arms up in the air and I stood there in kind of a power pose, just smiling in the sunset. And just I know I'm going and I have no idea how, but I am. and it didn't feel like magical Claire Day: Mm-hmm. Gro Hatlemark: thinking because I've been doing that a lot as well, so I know what that feels like. It was nothing like that. I did had not no plans or anything, just this bone deep knowing that arrived kind of just in an instant, fully formed. Isn't that cool? And it totally ch like Claire Day: Mm. So co. Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, when you know, I felt it in absolutely my whole body and that kind of I can still doubt, you know, but I know it's I know everything is possible. And it always arrives in a different way than we think. We Claire Day: Mm-hmm. Gro Hatlemark: cannot imagine our way to it. We cannot figure it out through our heads. We have to open enough space for something new to actually land in us. Yeah. Claire Day: So with that in mind, given that you've experienced that inner knowing in all of your cells, if we were to take away any of the doubts or the coulds or shoulds Gro Hatlemark: Well Claire Day: in life, what would be the dream? Gro Hatlemark: to just be that fully. That knowing, you know, because I'm a human being. I I have a life, I have a family, I absolutely doubt and lose track of and forget this bone deep knowing sometimes, but since I you know, it since I've felt it, it's been that's also been a thread throughout my life that I've like Sean as I said, he he showed me what safety feels like in the body. It was just like he holds the most non judgmental space I've ever felt and to be in a field, in a person's be beside a person that holds that is just so impactful and I had you know when we have never experienced things I have to and I f feel it to know what I'm actually looking for. Otherwise we tend to kind of we know everything that we don't want because that's what we experience but it's difficult sometimes to know what we do want when we've never ever felt seen know how that looks like Yeah, that just just to sort of like this is the human condition, it is our life to forget and remember and forget and remember. But it just I feel like it gets easier and easier to come back to the remembering and have more spaces, more communities, more like minded network and souls and surroundings and as long as we kind of follow and I've been building that for myself, it's easier to stay in the remembrance. Claire Day: Hmm. Gro Hatlemark: Yeah. Claire Day: And for that to be familiar, like you said, I mean, if if if what we're familiar with and what our baseline is is being disconnected and anxious and overwhelmed the whole time, then moving away from that feels unnatural. And we we draw ourselves back into it because this is what we recognize as being who we are. So to be able to be in a space that allows and and shows you how to feel safe and how to be in tune and aligned and i is a beautiful thing because without that you don't have that anchor there to call you home to how your true nature is. Gro Hatlemark: No. And you know that's that's the new paradigm, I think, that we we need to see that we need each other and we need communities and spaces where we feel that belonging and safety and to be able to be seen for who we are as equally important and unique, but also equally dependent, like interdependent on each other. So there's no over like all the power structures as we see them and know them today are gone in my beauty. Vision for the world. It's yeah, it's totally equally interdependence where I have my gifts and I give them gladly and open-heartedly, and you receive them because you need them. It's okay to have a need, and because you you you see what I have to give, and you receive it, and then you have something different to give another way. It it's kind of this is the this is the way we all need. each other's unique gifts and and traits and they need to be expressed and blossom but it needs the space Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: to to actually have that fertile ground where it's safe to grow into who we are naturally. Claire Day: And valued. Yeah. So leading on from that, you know, where what lights you up? Where do you get the most joy in your life? Gro Hatlemark: Mm-mm, following my passion, being in conversations like this, meet beautiful humans and I'm just like I'm just generally lit up by people, humans. I I get so curious like what's what's underneath the surface? What makes people do that? And you know, not to judge or analyse it, but I'm just like really curious how we are put together in a way. Yeah, I never that's kind of a mystery. That's my life mystery and and passion. and what can help us more into our natural, easeful, present, inner peace being. Yeah, and joy. Joy, joy, joy. Yeah, I like learning. I like travelling. Claire Day: you're back there. I lost you for a while. Gro Hatlemark: no. What did you hear then? Claire Day: Mm-hmm. And you were telling us all your beautiful lighting up. we heard as far as that you Gro Hatlemark: Yeah. Claire Day: that people. Getting in and Gro Hatlemark: people like me up. Claire Day: learning more. Yeah. You were in your flow there as well. I heard you, you came back on about a minute later and you were still saying all the things that light you up, which is amazing. Gro Hatlemark: we all maybe it's a point maybe we all have to find our own lights and but really trusting trusting Claire Day: Yeah. We can't follow your joy. Gro Hatlemark: yeah not for no we can never follow another one's you know we can be inspired absolutely be inspired by each other I think that's super important but never follow blindly and think that we can do the same and it's it's a recipe for something it's never because we all have our own way. And pause. Claire Day: And I think that's why it's so important to be able to recognise in ourselves when something is the right path for us or when, you know, our body and our mind and our soul is a yes to something or a no to something and being able Gro Hatlemark: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Claire Day: to d distinguish between those two. Yeah. What would be your tools Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, that's where human science. Claire Day: or your techniques that you use? Yeah. Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, we just we just went straight into it. Like it's the essential oils, absolutely for calming, self regulating, mental clarity, all the nervous system, recalibration, all the things, energetics, it's the oils. I don't have you know, and we share this passion and tool. Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: I I d I've never found anything like it for spiritual, mental, emotional, physical well Claire Day: Mm. Gro Hatlemark: being. And then it's the human design, which I use as a navigation tool. It's not recipe at at all. It's more like a a shot and yeah, a GPS to navigate in the jungle of self-exploration. and it's giving me so much permission, so much understanding and so much like compassion for myself and also understanding of how radically different we are and there's nothing right or wrong, it's just our own way of finding our flow and our joy. And nothing is better or worse or anything like Claire Day: Mm, right. Gro Hatlemark: that. It's it's like out of all the polarity thinking and into like a genuine genuine wish for humans to be themselves. Claire Day: Mm permission to be yourself. Gro Hatlemark: Permission, permission to be themselves, yeah. And the only one can do that is myself. But I I'd like to know have a have a GPS is so valuable. Claire Day: Mm hundred per cent. Now you touched on it earlier and I think I can guess where it is. But where is your favourite place that feels nourishing to yourself? Gro Hatlemark: my mountain cabin. and I and you know long long before human design I just take a deep exhale my body starts to breathe deeper and exhale as I drive up towards the mountain hills up into like over the treetops almost and come up to the the view and the openness and the spaciousness and the freshness and the clear clarity. it just Yeah, I just relax. It's it's where I heal, it's where I think, it's w it's opens my perspective and I come back to my own rhythm. So I I've actually and it's in I have mountain as environment in human design if people are interested in that. So it's like it was just a confirmation that I already knew and I'd felt Claire Day: I was just gonna say that's so interesting because that isn't gonna be the same for every Gro Hatlemark: No, no, no, no. Some like I have a son that has caves and he has always loved to build huts and hide underneath the bed and put you know, go inside small spaces and and he has a totally different way of finding safety and nourishment for himself. So we're we're so different. But it it feel you feel it in your body when you when you find it. You know you know where it is. Sometimes we just lack the the vocabulary or the permission or understanding of it. Claire Day: Yeah, yeah. So good. So share with people, you know, what is the work that you are doing now? Where can they find you if they'd like to learn more about human design or the different courses, the beautiful containers that you run? Gro Hatlemark: Yeah, right now, you know, I've been in this creative pause but I also have this beautiful, beautiful, beautiful offering that I've actually just put it down on my webpage and offer it up and started to Yeah, launch it in some way. But it's I think this is again, people find it when they need it and it's called a threshold. Isn't it interesting, Claire? it's called the threshold, a sacred Claire Day: Yeah. Gro Hatlemark: in between initiation. and I think that we have so many thresholds and we tend to not, you know in my exhibition as well that I'm I'm planning is about This inner world of of protection mechanisms and fears and everything and how to actually move through all of that more gracefully and acceptant and non-judgmental and be seen be seen naked and fully dressed is the is the name of the exhibition. But the threshold is an exploration, is a it's using human design, but I'm guiding people through finding their way of giving like what are you actually giving yourself full permission to be in this lifetime? what is the rebirth? What what is wanting what do you need to let go of? What is actually wanting? And it's it's sometimes difficult because it feels scary to let go of we touched upon that identity that feels feels familiar even though you know it's not serving you don't want it anymore but it's it's hard to let go of it because we don't know what's on the other side and this is the threshold like this in between that you know something is is ready to go but you can't see the other side yet so I'm I'm walking people through this side by side holding their hands guiding and lighting up the road and giving them full permission to own and see themselves and their own gifts in this so they don't lose track of themselves and they Claire Day: It's gonna be fabulous. I can testimonial from my own experience that Guru is the most wonderful guide and amazing knowledge on all things human design and coaching, and you'll be held in the most beautiful space. And it was incredible timing that Guru actually lost internet connection there and dropped off the call. But we were just about to finish up anyway. I will put all of the links down below where you can find Gru, where you can find Tiffany Carol and Shan if they're different modalities or something that interests you and they come highly recommended. And Gru is a fabulous, fabulous coach and human being, and my wonderful friend, and do go check her out because she is fantastic. Okay, bye for now.