Annie Muller: Hello, welcome back to Fiat in the Mess. I'm Annie Mueller here again with Hayley Skinner. We're so glad that y'all are here. Last time we talked about the mother as the heart of the home. And so today we wanted to dwell a little longer on this topic of home and specifically what it means that the Christian home is the domestic church. So Hayley, how are you? Thank you all so much for tuning in, for watching Fiat and the Mess. We are so happy to be able to bring this podcast to you twice a month. And our desire is that you find encouragement and companionship in these 40 minutes. And above all, that you are reminded of the beautiful, sacred work that you're doing every day in your homes. Regardless of the season of motherhood you're in, this work is sacred. It's Christ-like. It's changing the world.

Hailey Skinner: doing so great. Thank you, Annie. ⁓

Annie Muller: Good, good. Why don't you take us into this incredible topic today?

Hailey Skinner: Yeah,

Annie Muller: If you are enjoying the podcast, would be very grateful if you would subscribe and share, tell your friends, send it to someone you think would be encouraged, tell anybody you can think of that we're out here, that we're doing this. We also need your financial support. Like anything worth doing, this work costs money and resources. And we would love to be able to expand, maybe increase frequency. We would love to create a studio space where Haley and I can record together, We can't do any of without your help. ⁓ Monthly, one-time donations, any kind of support is very, very helpful to this work. ⁓ If you are in a position to help, we would be grateful you can go to mightyishercall.com slash podcast dash support.

Hailey Skinner: ⁓ I have so much gratitude for how this project has edified my own life and my own motherhood. And one of the many blessings is this dignified understanding of my own home as the domestic church. ⁓ I think all need that reminder that the work that we do as mothers in our home is truly sacred and really important. ⁓ And least I know I need that reminder. And so doing this work with you has just blessed me. ⁓

Annie Muller: We also wanna hear from you. If you have topics you'd like to hear us discuss, if there are areas in which we can support you further, if you need prayer, we would love to hear from you. can reach out to us at my email anytime, annie at mightyishercall.com. Also, please be sure to look at our website for any upcoming retreats. We have three retreats booked for 2026 already.

Hailey Skinner: Ever since we started the first episode, I've had this growing image in my mind of my home and your home, every Christian home where mothers are loving their children, mothers and fathers are loving their children, doing their best, right? We're just doing our best to raise them in the faith. And but each of these homes as the body of Christ in the world and really an extension of that same home that started at the Annunciation with Mary. ⁓

Annie Muller: Yeah. and there might be one in your area. So please go to mightyisrcall.com slash retreats and find out when we're going to be at a church near you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for giving us the strength and the encouragement we need to give Christ our fiat in the mess.

Hailey Skinner: and an extension of Holy Mother Church. So I certainly needed that reminder. I'm grateful, grateful for that image of my home as a place where really, really important work takes place. And the Catechism calls the home the first school of Christian life a school for human enrichment. Here one learns endurance and the joy of work, fraternal love, generous, even repeated forgiveness. and above all divine worship and prayer and the offering of one's life. So that is the call of the Christian home to be this school for both on the human level for human enrichment and the first school for for Christian life. So I wanted to share a story. This just happened a couple of weeks ago where I had a really challenging day. I was particularly overwhelmed by the looming laundry mountain. Can anyone relate? I just couldn't tackle that mountain. ⁓ So my husband, it's the worst. My dear husband said, ⁓ you should go to daily mass tomorrow morning, leave the kids with me. We just made it work. I hadn't been to daily mass in months by myself, so it was such a gift. ⁓ And I went to the front row. Here I am, Lord. I am so overwhelmed and...

Annie Muller: Ugh, it's the worst.

Hailey Skinner: just so grateful to be there and have some time and quiet prayer and at mass by myself. And I saw the altar boys preparing the altar and immediately thought of that laundry mountain I was groaning about before I left, right? And I'm watching this altar boy just prepare the linens on the altar. And I was struck by the dignity of this simple and sacred act, right, of cleaning, of dressing the altar. And it reminded me.

Annie Muller: Hehehehehe Hmm.

Hailey Skinner: what I really needed to remember of the dignity of this work that I do at home, the cooking, the feeding, the cleaning, the diapering, the potty training, the kissing boo-boos, the decorating, setting the table, even that looming laundry mountain, all of it, right? Like the altar boy preparing the linens on the altar. All of it for the purpose, the higher lofty, incredible purpose of making the home the first school of Christian life.

Annie Muller: Hmm.

Hailey Skinner: and ultimately a place where we can encounter God and grow in communion with him. So Annie, at this point in your mothering, you've had much more experience than I. You have a mother, you're a mother of seven, mostly grown children, now a grandmother. I know that we all have so much to learn from you and I would love to know what have been the most important things to you in building your domestic church.

Annie Muller: Hmm. you Hmm. Yeah, you know, listening to tell that story, it all comes back. mean, I still have piles of laundry that I resent, but ⁓ not as much as I used to. And, you know, just that feeling of overwhelm and then, you know, kind of you're unsure of the impact you're actually having. You know, what am I this daily work? Like, what am I really doing? And we worry that we're failing on the domestic front. not to mention when we think about like, what does it mean that we're forming these eternal souls? So it's such a gift when we when the Holy Spirit gives us those glimpses of heaven, you know, while we're in the trenches like that. So I love that the Holy Spirit was so kind in his consolation to just speak that revelation to you, watching that young man dress the altar. those are the things that really get us through is you know, those constellations of the Holy Spirit. ⁓ It's funny because the first thing I think when you say that you have a lot to learn for me is no, you don't. You're already like so much more in tune than I was when I had two littles. As far as this language, even of the sacredness of motherhood, I didn't. I. I didn't have it in the same way. mean, all of us at Mighty Is Her Call we always say like, we created this ministry because we needed this And ⁓ I'm just so grateful that I can offer this to moms in your season of life, especially because I know that it would have made a really huge difference for me if this conversation was happening when I was in trenches. And You know, was I knew I knew it was sacred work. There was a lot of this that I understood. But at the same time, I didn't have I didn't it wasn't articulated this well. And so even just your understanding of the work that you're doing is so it's beautiful. It's inspiring to me. And I think ⁓ if you were raising my grandchildren, I would just be so happy. You get it.

Hailey Skinner: ⁓ gosh. ⁓ thank you.

Annie Muller: I think this was my daughter, she has this language and has this understanding and knows she needs support. That was the other thing. I really was trying to like go it alone a lot at the beginning. I didn't have enough community and I feel like y'all's generation, like y'all are so clued in to how necessary it is that you have one another. And so you guys are doing such a beautiful job. But I have been at this a while.

Hailey Skinner: Thank you.

Annie Muller: The second generation of my family has already started, which is a little bit insane to me. ⁓ But honestly, my first thought, aside from any kind of practical tips, is that God's grace is just so abundant and so generous. And I could certainly look back and count my failures and the times my temper got the best of me. I think honestly, the thing when I do look back, I wish the most is that I could have been more present. But I also understand that there's a certain amount of presence that isn't possible when you're in the trenches. Like I remember older women when my kids were all little saying like, ⁓ try to soak it in. It goes so fast. And you want to be like, I'm sorry, soak it in. Like I am barely surviving here. I don't like you soak it in. Anyway, there is a certain amount of inability to, you know, revel in the beauty of it because it is so demanding and it is so constant. And I also think this is why God gives us grandchildren, because we really can revel and be present to them in a way that we just can't with our own kids. So I do think God and his abundance and generosity gives us. those little years again with these little people that look a little like like our people, but they're not. It's really quite magical. So very grateful that I get to do that with them. ⁓ But I I think when you were speaking, it made me think of the parable of the mustard seed and the promise that Christ gives us there. So, you know, he tells us it's the smallest of the seeds and yet it grows into this abundant tree. And that's such a beautiful image of what it is we do, because so much of what we do feels small. And just the minutia of the day, the piles of laundry, the endless dinners, the bottoms and the noses you're always wiping. there's we sacrifice a tremendous amount of our dignity in those early years. And it feels like these little like a thousand small things. ⁓ And it can be hard to see the larger picture of the domestic church, that where God is creating this beautiful living thing, that's a representation of his love for the world. It doesn't always feel like that when you're vomiting because you're pregnant while your toddler is trying to stick his hand in the toilet. You know, you're like, this is mustard seed stuff. It just feels... It feels a little bit small and and yet God's doing this big, beautiful thing. So. The one thing I always say is I look at my kids now, my adult children in particular, and I constantly feel like, man, God did some amazing work in spite of me because I know where I failed them and I know where I could have been better. But I also see. ⁓ where God's grace is so abundant that he took what I gave him, that little mustard seed, and he turned it into something really beautiful. And these humans are such delightful people. I love just being with them. I can't believe I got to have any part in who they're becoming. And that, you you experience that, and then you look back and like, ⁓ my gosh, of course I would do all of that again. I would live through all of that sacrifice and the things that were so, difficult because look at this person that exists in the world now that God gave to me and I and and now gives to the world. And it also makes the letting go easier. You know, it's hard. There's a lot of like death and grief in watching our children fly the coop. But at the same time, it's such a joy to offer them to the world. And That's the tree, that's the domestic church that grows out of that mustard seed. So it's very humbling and beautiful to watch your children grow into these fabulous humans and find their place in the world. And just seeing them find a spouse and then create their own domestic church is glorious. it's always such a representation to me of how God has never outdone generosity. Now, of course, course, there are continued hardship. know, our adult children don't make all the decisions that we want them to. Sometimes they make terrible ones. We also watch our older children suffer and we feel a little helpless in that a lot of the time. And it's a lot of prayer and a lot of offering them back to the Lord. But there is a tremendous amount of joy in as we cultivate their faith and their relationship with God when they're little. It's really such a gift to see them take it on and to embrace their relationship with God as their own. So that little mustard seed keeps turning into something bigger.

Hailey Skinner: is so beautiful. It gets me so excited to think about who my children are going to become someday. ⁓ Obviously, my kids are so little, but you just blink and time flies and I'm getting close to 30 and my husband reminds me every day like we'll find a gray hair and he's like, we're almost 50 and like slow down. But I just love so fast.

Annie Muller: So true. It does happen really fast.

Hailey Skinner: I just love what you're saying about watching your kids grow into fabulous humans. And just on the human level, of course, I have so many hopes for who my kids are gonna be. I want them to be thoughtful and interesting and fun and adventurous, but more importantly, become virtuous and holy and faithful and really to do whatever God calls him to do. And so I'm praying for the grace to get out of the way and let him do his work.

Annie Muller: you Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: When I think of their future, constantly need to remind myself that it's not all up to me. I need to release this sense of control that I have. You know, I'm their mom. I get to decide for them. I do a lot of that with toddlers, but it's not up to me who they are to become. That is truly God's work. But my husband and I like to joke that our son can either marry our best friend's daughter or become the abbot of the Cistercian monastery in our neighborhood.

Annie Muller: Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: So, you know, he has freedom to discern his vocation.

Annie Muller: think you're presenting it with two very good choices. I don't see.

Hailey Skinner: Mm-hmm. As long as he chooses between those two things, he's completely free. But sadly, no, praise God, we all know that's not how it works and God's plans are way better than ours. But it's just that's just such a beautiful ⁓ and important reminder that our children's relationship with God is their own. And I need to step out of the way and let God work in their life. And so that really leaves the work of making them into saints that just keeps it in God's court. And whatever my child's vocation is. not up for me to decide. But at the same time, I'm not saying I don't have a part to play. In fact, I have a very prominent role in their life to teach the faith, to love them well, to witness the joy of the faith. And as the Catechism says, to encourage them in the vocation which is proper to each child. And we do this by the reception of the sacraments, prayer and thanksgiving, the witness of a holy life and self-denial and active charity. And so this brings me right back to the quote about the home that I mentioned at the very beginning and I'll quote it here. Thus the home is the first school of Christian life and a school for human enrichment.

Annie Muller: Mmm.

Hailey Skinner: where one learns endurance, the joy of work, fraternal love, generous, even repeated forgiveness, and above all, divine worship and prayer and the offering of one's life. So this brings us to two main parts, the central activity of the home, prayer and sacrifice that we really want to dive into.

Annie Muller: Hmm. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important when we when we say that that prayer and sacrifice are the primary focus of the home or the way that the domestic church is really cultivated and grown. It's important for moms to not hear that and immediately think, well, I'm failing because we don't have a family prayer time or, you know, we. We try to do the rosary and it's a total nightmare every time or something. So the first thing I want to say your life ⁓ a prayer and a living sacrifice. ⁓ scripture tells us that our life is a living sacrifice. Paul tells us to pray without ceasing. Well, what does that mean? That means the activity of our life ⁓ a sacrifice of prayer ⁓ motherhood, as we say over and over by its very nature ⁓ is sacrificial, whether you want it to be or not, you you might think, "I don't really want to live a life sacrifice." Well, too bad you're a mom. It's happening. So there are ways we can enter into that and unite our sacrifice in a very deliberate way that is extremely efficacious and valuable. But we're also just by shaping our domestic church, we are teaching our children the art of sacrifice and prayer. So it's important to remember that it's not just about, you know, what we think prayer looks like. It's an act of prayer. Now, obviously, we also want to teach our children how to pray and we want to ⁓ introduce them to all these beautiful facets of our faith. I love the way the catechism breaks it down there. that we do this by reception of the sacraments, prayer, thanksgiving, the witness of a holy life, self-denial, and active charity. Honestly, those things are so, well, so the reception of sacraments, prayer, and thanksgiving, we very much teach them how to do that, right? We introduce them to the sacraments, we make sure they're catechized, we teach them simple prayers. And Thanksgiving, you can teach your kids to do that all day long to make them thankful people. The witness of a holy life, that's, well, partially teaching them about the saints, of course, but it's also us. We're the witness of the holy life and we bring them into a community with other holy people and we let them see what living a holy life looks like. And then the self denial and active charity, I mean, that's baked right into family life, especially the more children you have. ⁓ Everybody who's had a baby recognizes the one who's been displaced learning self denial because the needs of this tiny baby are suddenly coming before theirs. And I know I'm sure I know you've already seen this, Haley, that you the world's always like, ⁓ aren't they going to be jealous? ⁓ children? Babies ⁓ love when have siblings. there is such an acceptance and a natural joy for new life. I've had kids 16 months apart. I've had kids two years apart. ⁓ And regardless of where they their desire is to like love the baby. You know, sometimes a little too much. ⁓ Like my son, I have son who ⁓ He when when my daughter was born, he used to he'd want to pick her up and just like hug her. But he's he's a really intense person. And he would like shake, like pick her up and ⁓ I'd be like, OK, you've got to let's we have to you know, have to be gentle or he'd want to play with her and like he'd sit on her and think it was funny. And, know, so of course, have to teach them. But that self denial. They learn very quickly, ⁓ mommy's nursing and I have to let her do that. Now they might still come try to sit on the baby's head and bring you a book because they would still like their story. But they also understand that this other person has come in, there's a part of me that's gonna have to wait. And that act of charity, it also happens very naturally. And of course then we have to teach them. we're gonna let, sister's gonna have my time right now. and you can help in this way. You can be charitable in this way. So it's also built into the daily work of the domestic church. also just lastly, I think of Acts 17 28, where Paul says that we live and move and have our being in Christ. And to me, that is such a beautiful representation of motherhood because We are just living and moving and having our being in all of these very practical ways, but we're doing that for Christ Jesus, for the salvation of our family, for the salvation of our own souls. And that's a form of prayer. ⁓ yeah, go ahead.

Hailey Skinner: I wanted to mention something earlier you were speaking about prayer and sacrifice and just by the very nature of a mother's life and your vocation being a living prayer and sacrifice. This was so helpful. A friend of mine shared this with me that anytime her baby woke up in the middle of the night, she tried to remember that as her picture, the baby crying as the tolling of the bells in a monastery, waking her up and calling her to prayer. And so

Annie Muller: ⁓ beautiful.

Hailey Skinner: I've been really trying to do that and it just changes everything when you when you listen to your baby crying or throughout the day. Anytime there's a mama pick me up, mama, I have a bobo. Your kids are growing up and they're the demands just grow any time that you are you're asked for to help or, you know, any anytime there's a demand made of you just to see that as the tolling of the bells and you're in your home. ⁓ And similarly, my my sister encouraged me to do this.

Annie Muller: you Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: when my daughter was born, anytime I sit down to nurse her to pray for a specific intention. And so now for 10 months, I've been praying for the same intention every time I sit down to nurse my daughter. And that has been powerful. It's been a lot of prayer for this one intention, but just I share those two examples as maybe ideas for some of you listeners. They've really blessed me and just finding ways to.

Annie Muller: Ooh, that's a lot. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: connect a prayer with whatever activity you're doing every day. know, that laundry mountain, I now pray for another intention every time I'm folding laundry. And I have lots of opportunities to pray for that intention and to joyfully give God my yes to doing that task and making it a prayer.

Annie Muller: Right. Yeah. I love that idea. That's so beautiful. I love it that it's the one intention, like continuing to bring the one thing, because we can certainly try to make it like make something prayerful. But that's really powerful to just be like, no, this is the one intention. I like that. I like that a lot. I'm going to use that. The other the other thing that. we can do as an act of prayer, it was stated in that catechism quote as well, is use the opportunity for gratitude in Thanksgiving and all of those little things. So I used to, I guess I still do this, but where every time I'm doing laundry and feeling like I don't want to do laundry, I thank the Lord that I have a washing machine and that I have a dryer. And I grew up,

Hailey Skinner: Mm-hmm.

Annie Muller: without always having one and know what it feels like to have clothes dry on a line and it's not great. So when I throw my kids clothes in the dryer and pull them out all soft and warm, know, I thank the Lord that we have the electricity and the appliance and, and we can teach our kids that too, when they're doing something they don't want to do.

Hailey Skinner: Mm-hmm.

Annie Muller: we can teach them to thank God for the thing that they have. still say to my teenagers when they don't want to do the dishes, well, just thank God we have a dishwasher. Otherwise this would take you a lot longer. You know, let's be grateful. Yeah. So, okay, we want to be people of prayer, but we also want to foster a prayer life for our children.

Hailey Skinner: You Mm-hmm.

Annie Muller: And so what are some things you do with your littles that help with your intention of seeing them foster a long-term prayer life?

Hailey Skinner: Yeah, I do a lot of talking to the Lord out loud and sometimes it might look like I'm talking to myself. I sometimes do that too. Talking through, you know, my plan for the day or tasks, but just speaking to the Lord out loud ⁓ when it's a beautiful day. Thank you, Jesus, for this day. ⁓ When it's raining, it was raining yesterday. Thank you, Jesus, for this rain. Look at how it's helping our plants grow. And I've seen my son start to do that. The other day I walked into his room and he was just talking, he was spouting off a list of all the names that he knows. And I walk in and I say, hey buddy, what are you doing? And he kind of got mad. He was like, mama, I'm praying. I'm talking to Jesus. I was like, well please speak to mama kindly. That's great. I'll give you some space. can keep praying. That's wonderful.

Annie Muller: Hmm ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Hailey Skinner: But he'll ask me when he hears me, you know speaking out loud. Are you talking to Jesus again mama? But he recognizes that as what I do Often when I'm just home alone with the kids or in the car. I'm just praying out loud and I think it's important at least for me to remember maybe some of you can relate that I want my own prayer life and my relationship with the Lord to be genuine to be Not just a show to teach my kids, right? I'm not just kneeling down on the ground so that my kids learn to kneel

Annie Muller: Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: but that I am genuinely praying and kneeling for the sake of loving God. ⁓ I certainly have struggled with that. Like, okay, now I'm gonna teach my son how to kneel rather than, ⁓ I'm kneeling down because I'm praying and I love the Lord. So I think that's just something that I'm thinking about a lot. is my parenting of my son and fostering of his prayer life coming from a genuine witness of my own love of God?

Annie Muller: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm.

Hailey Skinner: Or is it that I just have all of these ideals for him and ways I want him to be? Right, right. I pray that that my life is a genuine, true witness of love of God and that then he wants to imitate that. And speaking of kneeling, that's another thing that we that we insist upon and model. So when we pray together as a family or just with my son before nap time, before bedtime, we kneel.

Annie Muller: and boxes you want to check. Yeah. Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: in front of a crucifix and I just love that it's uncomfortable. It's a little sacrifice. It orients your body and your heart upwards to God. And I have a little story of kneeling. I feel like this has been a really fruitful thing in his little life. My sister was visiting and she took him on a little trip to a park and there was a statue of Jesus in the property. It was a little Catholic statue.

Annie Muller: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hailey Skinner: Catholic school that has a park and a statue of the Sacred Heart. And my son just sprints away from her and she kind of freaks out like, where's he going? He's just running away from me really fast. He had seen the statue of Jesus and he sprints to the statue. He kneels down. He makes the sign of a cross, bows his head for a few seconds, stands back up, blesses himself and runs right back to her. And she just like didn't know what to do. She called me and she's like, you will never guess what just happened. Like you're doing something right. He saw Jesus and he kneeled down. So mamas, I would insist upon modeling it and teaching your children to kneel in the home. And then that posture that's preparing their hearts to encounter the Lord and also helpful for training in mass if they're in the practice of kneeling in the home.

Annie Muller: Hmm. Beautiful. would say, Mm-hmm. Yeah, that does help with the massing. still, my youngest teenager still is always like back on his heels. I'm like, you can kneel, get up. Oh, goodness. That is really beautiful. Right. Well, right. Sure. Sure. Well, and he's a toddler. So, yeah.

Hailey Skinner: I'm not saying it's perfect. It's kind of a battle every day, like how he's kneeling, if he's slumped over in my lap or jumping up and down, but we're working on it.

Annie Muller: Yeah, we, you know, we would do family rosary, which we've been very hit or miss about. don't want to make people think like, yeah, we're just very realistically, it's been phases, seasons where it's like a whole whole rosary, just a decade, just pieces. And when we first started, it was a lot like we're going to kneel. And then it was like, we're just going to say this. So even if you're like rolling around. you know, with your stuffed animal, with your rosary around the stuffed animal's neck, we're going to keep praying like we're just going to keep going. So that's the other thing. There are seasons as well where you can kind of sense. And I feel like sometimes you can sense the Lord's giving us an opportunity to focus on this thing. And one thing that we've found to be very helpful is to incorporate. prayer time and Bible reading or whatever it is you're wanting to do with dinner. So ⁓ we've really prioritized dinner as a family and that meant saying no to certain activities and things that would conflict with that, which was a combination, if I'm being honest, it was a combination of having no money and also really wanting to not be so busy that we couldn't. eat as a family or have that family time. It did primarily come from wanting to prioritize our dinner table and our family time. But there also was some practical like we can't be in five sports and we can't do it. We also because our kids came so close together, it was you put one in and then they're all in. And so we did do activities. We did do some sports. We were very particular. We chose less competitive leagues that helped us prioritize our family time a little bit more. So, you know, we played for the YMCA instead of ⁓ like a city league or something or what a club is what everybody plays now. So I always joke that we make small white people and nobody was going to be a professional athlete. So we really weren't robbing them of anything. But that's neither here nor there. We we did always really prioritize dinner and we have always sat down together as a family for dinner. pretty much every night of the week. And so we realized, you know, when they were little, we did Bible reading and prayer time at the table because I wanted to get them to bed as soon as humanly possible. And we did put them to bed very early. ⁓ But it also became, you know, with teenagers, it's like you have this 30 minutes at the dinner table and then they scatter and they're doing homework and they're they have activities or they're working or what have you. ⁓ we have found that that's just a beautiful time. Just pull your rosaries out right there, you know, once you're finished eating. ⁓ And then often while we're eating, I will read scripture or we'll read a book that, you know, we're wanting some lessons or like a sermon or something like that. Just have some kind of reading. And it's not every single time I mean, there's certainly lots of just conversation, too. But it is just kind of you have their attention at that time and everybody has to eat and that's all they ever want to do anyway. So you might as well gather their attention at dinner. So that's been something that we have found to be helpful. And I love what you're saying about talking to Jesus throughout the day. I did that, too. And ⁓ and it just hopefully. fosters in them an understanding. Well, he's already modeling it that he's like, Mom, I'm talking to God here. You know, that's just so important that they recognize that that's what we should be doing and that and I have talked about this book on the podcast in past seasons, but practicing the presence of God by Brother Lawrence, he that's the whole point. I mean, he talks about he has these menial tasks in the monastery and he's just in conversation with

Hailey Skinner: you

Annie Muller: with Jesus all day long. so Haley, you're talking about, you know, when our kids are young, there's these external things that we encourage them to do or we insist upon because we are wanting to get to the internal, obviously. The goal is that we foster these things. And already seeing it, your son running to a statue of Jesus and recognizing, I'm gonna genuflect here, this is important. ⁓ As they get older, there's a lot, before we recorded, Haley asked me, how do you help your teenagers have this relationship or prayer? And I'm like, well, a lot of it is just hoping it's happening. You check in.

Hailey Skinner: Mm-hmm.

Annie Muller: That's all I can really do. And I will say things like, we talking to Jesus? Are you guys reading your Bibles? Are you guys making time in your day to talk to the Lord about your life and what's going on? And you know, they're teenagers. like, yeah, no, I am. Yeah, no, I do. But then they do things like they surprise me and it's a vacation day and they go to daily mass on their own or they get together with their friends and go to daily mass, which is so sweet. There are these little glimpses that, okay, all of these things we've tried to foster by example and these external things do turn into a relationship with Christ. Well, so Haley, what are some things that you do in your home ⁓ to kind of ⁓ set the right environment or create the space ⁓ where you're hoping that children and others encounter God?

Hailey Skinner: Yeah, when we first moved into our home, we had this collection of crucifixes from our time in Rome, crucifixes and icons, and we decided...

Annie Muller: ⁓ Rome I'm sure.

Hailey Skinner: What a blessing. have a lot of beautiful religious art we bought or received on our time abroad. ⁓ We decided to put a crucifix over every bed in the house and every main entryway or doorway. And that is just a really awesome kind of orientation. I'm walking into a new room. I see Jesus. I'm going to bed. I see Jesus. I'm putting my son to sleep. I see Jesus. And I think of sacrifice and prayer, those two.

Annie Muller: Mm-hmm.

Hailey Skinner: central, what ought to be the central activity of my home. And religious art hanging it in important places around the house. One of my favorites is we have this little tile from our time on the Camino, the Way of St. James in Spain. We did that right before we moved home with my son. So we had a one year old in a backpack for a week hiking the Camino. But we have a tile at the entryway to our house, the front door.

Annie Muller: Mm-hmm. Nice.

Hailey Skinner: So as we're leaving, as we're coming and going, I think when Camino, we're on the way, we're still on the way with St. James, you know, being sent forth. You can think of the concluding words of the mass, go forth, the mass has ended. Like you're leaving your house, go and proclaim the gospel and then return home back to your domestic church. So that's a huge ⁓ motivator, I guess, for me. ⁓ And then we have a holy water font.

Annie Muller: Yeah. you Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: And I love using that to bless my children before they go to bed. That's really fun. They can bless us, too. It's a neat way to kind of make that connection, the material connection between our house and the activity we do here and then the church, where the first thing you do when you walk in is find the holy water font. ⁓ A few other things we do are make a morning offering. My husband leads us in morning prayer and then we do night prayer, just the two of us before bed.

Annie Muller: The kids, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Hailey Skinner: ⁓ And I've hung, I do really well if I have reminders, like sticky notes, or I think that's the beauty of having artwork crucifixes, reminders, but even just like a printout of the Angelus at my kitchen sink, because I'm always standing there at noon. And so I pray the Angelus if I see my little note card with it written down.

Annie Muller: Yeah, yeah. Right. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: It's super helpful. And One last idea is just celebrating the feast days, of course, the major feast days of Church calendar, trying to live liturgically with Holy Mother Church, but then celebrating your kids baptismal feast days as a birthday. ⁓ In my husband's family, they they even thought of it just as a more important day of the year than your birthday, because something more profound is happening at baptism than even the creation of that child or the birth of that child. But the baptism of the child is a more radical and profound change. So it's just celebrating going going crazy on their baptismal feast day ⁓ or having some tradition to recognize it. And then the feast days of their.

Annie Muller: Yeah. Yeah.

Hailey Skinner: their confirmation saints and any other saints that your family really loves or is devoted to. So what about you Annie? What are some some things that you've incorporated into your own home?

Annie Muller: Yeah, that is so beautiful. We. Yeah, we do a lot of the same things. I do have a ton of religious art all over. We always joke. We had a priest over for dinner recently and we have this one wall that's like just the whole wall is icons. And and he was like, oh, wait, I can't tell if you're Catholic. It's a lot. It's a lot. And then, of course, it's spread. So there's religious art everywhere, which I love. And I do find it's these little touchstones. Above my desk where I work I have all kinds of post-it notes with scripture and things you know quotes from Saints and things to just That I find helpful to stop and read when the kids were young and I don't do this as much anymore I probably should but For at least 10 or 15 years I would every month I would put new scriptures like on their bathroom mirror or above the sink where they do dishes, just places where I know they're going to be all the time. And they do joke now like, well, they joke there are scriptures they absolutely know because they were on their mirror, you know, in their in the bathroom. And that's one thing that was very important to me was scriptures has always been such a huge part of my life. And growing up Protestant, we took a lot of time and care to memorize it. And ⁓ and read it and read the Bible several times before I even finished high school. And so I want that to be I know that, you know, the sort of trope is that Catholics don't know scripture well, but that's silly. We should. And we hear it, especially if you get to go to daily mass, you know, you get to hear it every day. But it's just so important. I want it to be hidden in their heart because I know from experience that is something I draw on. often. And so you can't draw on what you don't know. And so just finding ways to incorporate scripture into their life. Now, obviously, like with anything, they have to then take ownership and make it something they want to do. But we can certainly put it in front of their face, you know, as much as possible. And like I said, doing like the prayer time and at dinner and then. I also will set alarms to pray for certain things. And then if my kids are around and the alarm goes off, like, hey, we're gonna pray Hail Mary for this person or this intention, and they'll do that with me. And then ⁓ we too celebrate baptismal birthdays because it is such a beautiful ⁓ thing to celebrate. It's such an important day. And then I love trying to do the feast days. think, you know, I know some people who do this really, really well, a like a liturgical ⁓ vibe in their home, like the kids know what feast days are coming ⁓ but it have to be perfect. You don't have to like have a craft and a cookie or something. I think ⁓ the key is finding a way in your own family culture. ⁓ to just recognize the rhythm that the church gives us. So there are these times of feast and famine, and there are times that we really celebrate. so, you know, just to, yeah, highlight the feast days. We love to highlight the days of the saint they're named after. Although the more kids we had, the more saint names we put in. So there's some kids who's like, I'm like, no, no, you gotta pick one. You can't. There's like four Saint names and then the older kids are like, we only have two. That's not fair. So we usually pick their first name to celebrate that feast day. ⁓ But just making the church part of the way we live and move and have our being, that's the important part. And I want to as we wrap up, I thought we could just talk about. if our home is the domestic church and we're the sanctuary for this domestic church, what do we want ⁓ the ⁓ I we talked about this in a past episode of like, what do you want the the charism of your home to be? And everybody's is going to be different because we all have different gifts and talents ⁓ and things bringing to the table. But just taking some time to consider, OK, what do I want? the primary charism of our domestic church to be. What is the Lord calling us to in our unique talents and our unique temperaments and personalities? so, Haley, what have you, just in thinking about that, when we talked about that before we got on, what is your kind of greatest desire of your heart for your domestic church?

Hailey Skinner: Yeah, there are a few things that come to mind, but a couple That I'll mention here, yeah, ⁓ if my is going to be the place where anyone who walks through the doors, I pray, will encounter God, then I hope it's a place that is beautiful, a place that is orderly. ⁓ It's not clean, ⁓ but at least orderly and a reflection of God's goodness ⁓ in ⁓ the in the beauty, a place where contemplation can take place. Again, I'm not a contemplative nun, but where we can we can strive to contemplate God and his goodness and encounter him where we are in our messy messiness. A place of joy and laughter. really we love to laugh. We love to play. Playfulness is something I really value. But kind of in. My concluding thought and like the main thing that comes to my heart is hospitality. I want my home to be a hospitable one. And I just think back to the very beginning, back to Mary, to her experience being the first tabernacle. And I think the virtue I see at the Annunciation most clearly is her hospitality. Just saying, yes, Lord, make yourself at home. Of course, come on in. She makes her life a daily prayer.

Annie Muller: you you

Hailey Skinner: and she just welcomes the Lord in and lets him interrupt her plans. And so I want my home to be the same way, like a hospitable, open door, very warm and ⁓ yeah, where Mary can teach me how to be the mother of this home.

Annie Muller: Hmm. Yeah, that's so beautiful. Now, that's exactly how I feel. And that has been my desire as long as we've been working on this domestic church is that it would be a place of hospitality and ⁓ and generosity and that people would be able to be at peace in my home. so even even in the years where it was chaos all the time, like, you know, noise and lots of children and I I wanted that sense of peace. thankfully, I really feel the Lord has given that to us that, you know, we've been out of a while now and our home is certainly a hub for hospitality and for ⁓ activity. And that is by design. mean, my kids have always known that the answer is always yes. If somebody wants to come over or needs a meal or. needs a ride or needs a place to be. And and one thing I say to my kids all the time is, you know, we we invite people in because we want them to encounter the love of Jesus here. And this may be the only place they encounter that today or maybe the only place they encounter it this week. We don't know what people are going through. We don't know even some of our closest friends. We don't really know what they might be struggling with or where they might be suffering. And so we want our home to be a balm. We want it to be a place where it's not just because the food is good and we're having fun. It's because Christ is present here and we want that to be the thing that pulls people in and makes them feel safe and feel the love of Christ. So that's why we welcome them and you know, That's why we open our hearts in our homes to others because that's what Christ calls us to do. And there's that there's one final quote from the catechism ⁓ says in our own time in a world often alien and even hostile to faith, believing families are of primary importance as centers of living, radiant faith. So that's what we want to be. And that doesn't mean our house is clean and everything's perfect. It means we have that spirit of love and receptivity. So what you were mentioning about Mary, like her receptivity to be the living tabernacle for Christ, that's the spirit we want present in our domestic church is whatever your will is, Lord, that's what we want. And we want to know, we want people to know that Christ is loving and fun and beautiful. You know, I love what you said about laughter. think humor is so important. I think we could do a whole episode on just like why we should be laughing in our homes. And that's one of those things early on that I said, like, I want it to be a place of love and laughter, not just rules. And part of. growing in our faith is being able to laugh at ourselves and to teach our children to laugh at themselves and laugh at the absurd. And so that's part of what makes a domestic church a place we want to be is that we recognize that life is full of laughter and silliness and fun. And even in our suffering, Christ lifts us up. So that's what we want. Good. Well, I guess we're already where we might even be longer than normal. So thank you all for hanging in there with us. We'll have all these quotes from the catechism in the show notes. We're so grateful that you keep tuning in. Please like and share and spread the word that we're here. And if you have a topic or anything you want to ask us about, you can always reach out at Annie at mighty is her call dot com. and we will see you next time. Thanks for joining.