Theodore Chao: Hello, this is Theodore Chao. Welcome to another episode of the TODOS Podcast. This is season five, episode six. Today we're delving into chapter nine, our last chapter, on the teacher section of the TODOS Anti-Racist Mathematics Education Book. I'm really excited for this particular episode on Cultivating Equity and Empathy in Community-Focused Elementary Math Modeling. This is a pretty huge team. It's the EQSTEMM project, an NSF-funded project that Wow, thank you so much. What an amazing conversation. and Shari that so good. I really loved the ways that you really got and Delia to talk so much about their work, right? In particular, like work that's happening both in the East Coast, but also in Tucson, Arizona. Yeah, so, yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Okay. Shari Kaku: Today we ⁓ focusing on section three teachers and specifically chapter nine, Cultivating and Empathy in Elementary Math Modeling. Today we have two guests with us, two authors ⁓ of our article here, chapter nine. Shakiyya Bland: Yes, it was nice to make that connection and collaboration, cross-system collaboration. So yeah, definitely. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Yeah. So what are we all thinking about now that we just talked all about this amazing work from the EQSTEMM project, but also just about what Delia is doing in her classroom. Shari Kaku: And today we're going to be, going to be Shakiyya and I. So Shakiyya say hello. Theodore Chao: involves so many of my favorite people in math education. Erin Turner, Jennifer Suh, Holly Tate, Delia Sotelo Fierros, Mary Alice Carlson, Julia Aguirre, Elizabeth Fulton. Such great work. This episode, going to be mainly be Jennifer Suh and Delia Sotelo Fierros talking to Shakiyya Bland and Shari Kaku Beautiful episode. Enjoy listening to it. But before we get in, make sure that you have penciled Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Hello, greetings to you all. Greetings to the guests. I'm very excited for this conversation. Shari Kaku: Before we go on though, Teddy, EQSTEMM is actually an acronym, right? So just kind of unpacking that. It's EQ-STEMM with two M's it stands for Advancing Equity and Strengthening Teaching Through Elementary Math Modeling. And would like us to share too, they have a website, right? www.eqstemm, again with two M's, .org. So. ⁓ Thanks, Shakiyya. We have two guests today, again, authors of our chapter nine. first guest is Jennifer which we'll call her Jenn today, right Jenn? ⁓ From Mason University, she's a professor of mathematics education in the Graduate School of Education, where she teaches pre-service and practicing teachers, as well as math specialists. Theodore Chao: Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Jenn: Yeah. Theodore Chao: June 25th and 2026 for the TODOS Conference happening in Garden Grove, Orange County, Southern California. An amazing conference and a beautiful location. I do lot of work in Orange County. I love It's a really wonderful space. And I'm not just saying that. I really do like it. It's close to Disneyland. It's got a of really amazing Vietnamese food and it's to be a fun time. So make sure to Yeah. Shari Kaku: Before we get started, I don't want to forget this might be a nice spot to maybe start your resources or, you know, research. she loves teachers and lesson study and learning alongside both teachers and students. ⁓ So welcome Jenn And our other guest is Delia Fierros ⁓ a teacher in Tucson, Arizona, and specifically third grade And before we get started, I want to congratulate her on just finishing her master's. So ⁓ welcome to both of you today. ⁓ Theodore Chao: Yeah, it's great. And I particularly love this project, not just because I've been a big fan of Jenn for many years and the work that she does in math modeling and lesson study, but also that it marries the work that Julia Aguirre has been doing with Funds of Knowledge and some of the work that Mary Alice Carlson has been doing, particularly with math modeling. And so it brings together all these amazing, amazing people who live in the world of elementary math education, who approach it from different angles and then really connects it all together in this really nice piece. Register for that, make sure to book your hotel and enjoy this wonderful episode delving into the EQSTEMM project and then stick around at the end for the reflection that's going to happen. Okay. Enjoy y'all. Peace. Shakiyya Bland: Yes, I'm glad. Shari Kaku: coming and are there anything else you want to add to your We'll start with you Jenn and then Delia Delia Sotelo Fierros: Thank Theodore Chao: I will link to the website. We'll link also to the Mathematizing Your World protocol that is also on that website, which I love and I've used a lot in my own PD with teachers because it's just so beautiful and it's so well done. And what I love is that you can download Google slides to edit on your own and use them in your own classroom, which is so thoughtful for teachers who are busy and want to do some really good things, but don't often have time to plan and develop their own materials. So it's great stuff. Jenn: Yeah, I'm just so grateful to have the space to share some of our work. I do want to give a shout out to my EQSTEMM team. Erin Turner, Julia Aguirre, Mary Alice Carlson. They're the other on our project called EQSTEMM, which is where this work came. And I to meet amazing and coaches, ⁓ not just in Virginia, but across four Shakiyya Bland: Yeah, speaking of what your comment made me think about, like the ease of being able to implement the strategies and topics that were shared throughout the podcast, ⁓ I posed a question around purposeful questions and also making connections to Delia's ⁓ catch up conversations that were used in the classroom space. So just thinking about just being able to pause or how we start a lesson. Jenn: project sites, which is so amazing. And that's when I got to meet Delia we got to hang out at the last TODOS together. ⁓ So really grateful for you all having us ⁓ here today and to share our story. Thanks so much. Shari Kaku: Thanks, Jenn. How about you, Delia? Anything to add? Delia Sotelo Fierros: So I'm a first generation Mexican American. My family migrated back to the United States in 2005. I grew up in rural Arizona where our math curriculum at the time, it valued speed and accuracy. And so I thought I was a very good mathematician and I went through the experience in that school district. I graduated and then had the opportunity to come to Tucson for my bachelor's in elementary education. And I got to meet the wonderful Dr. Erin Turner. Shakiyya Bland: pre-K-12, being able to just really humanize the space by posing a question to check in with students and then how that can flow and be integrated throughout the mathematics learning process. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Yeah, I love that idea, right? This idea that they start with just, I think what you call the community connection, just bringing students together. And I love that Delia mentioned that it's not that hard. Monday morning, we come in, ⁓ have the kids who are so excited to talk about what they were doing and what's going on in their lives, and then bringing them into a circle just to share their knowledge. And I think to me, like this idea of funds of knowledge, of connecting the community, Delia Sotelo Fierros: And she introduced me to this idea of funds of knowledge that I had never heard of. And funds of knowledge was something from Tucson that originated here in the 80s. And I was fascinated. I was very intrigued about the power of funds of knowledge and how that could be used to elevate student voices. in her math methods course, we use that funds of knowledge piece specifically for math teaching. Theodore Chao: know, oftentimes, you know, as teachers, we can think of it so hard, like, I got to send a newsletter out, I got to give surveys, right? I got to really like meet my parents. It's like, it actually doesn't need to be that difficult. And kids are going to bring in some such great resources just if you sit and listen and open up that space for them to share. Delia Sotelo Fierros: And I started to reflect on my experience as a student where I was fast and I was accurate and I was celebrated. But there was this big piece of me missing in that education journey. I never felt that my teachers were curious about who I was. And at the time in that county, there was only 11 % Hispanic community. And so to think about that, think Shari Kaku: I wonder too, like I used to think I'll have to collect data about students, but you the voice is important and it might start with the hope to write as it starts with a few voices that are willing to take a risk and share. And as maybe the other students see, you know, like I think Delia said, use a notice and wonder, right? So maybe you share your own first, right? And they are curious about you and I'm sure there'll be a parent or a student willing to share a notice and wonder. Delia Sotelo Fierros: even the teachers might not have known how to approach certain situations because we were only 11 % of their world. ⁓ think had they known about funds of knowledge, I wondered if their practices might have changed. I wondered if they would have been more curious about who I was and how they could help me connect math to my world. Shari Kaku: And like you said, student of the week or your structures are, I just see this, you know, that telephone, like one friend tells one friend and those two friends tell other friends, right? And ⁓ how would elevate the status of everyone in the space, right? And Dillian mentioned ⁓ a student for folklórico is there, ⁓ what they and football, right? So how awesome would that Delia Sotelo Fierros: And so really that became a big motivation for me as I started teaching and how can I elevate my students' voices and their knowledge in the classroom. And through my work with Dr. Turner in my math methods courses, and then I was very privileged to have Dr. Maura Varley Gutierrez be my student teaching supervisor. And she also motivated me and encouraged me to elevate my students' voices and what they bring with them. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shari Kaku: be to bring your specialty to the space. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yeah, yeah. And to the community, so to that learning space and then to the community thinking about the narrative around the vendors that Delia shared, thinking about problem solving and structuring the setup, the layout to maximize the business, the marketing. These are second graders having like engaging in these mathematically rich Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shari Kaku: Hmm. Delia Sotelo Fierros: And that's been what's driven me through the past eight years in education. And I'm constantly thinking and brainstorming ways of how I can bring my students' backgrounds into the classroom. Because it doesn't just stay at the door, but they can bring that into the classroom for all of us to learn, not just each other, but I also learn a lot about their cultures and their traditions. And I also learn a lot about my students because my family is from central Mexico. Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Theodore Chao: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: conversations that make these authentic connections to community. Just beautiful to hear. ⁓ Shari Kaku: that much. Yeah. Theodore Chao: Yeah, I want to highlight something that said, relates that is, you know, I think oftentimes we tell and we want our teachers in our schools to move beyond a tourist approach, to move beyond a food festivals and holidays approach to multiculturalism and to really authentic understandings, right, of the worlds that our students are living in. And I think many teachers I work with say, well, you we start with these picture books and we get into that. And the holidays are really nice way to talk about these things, but how do we get deeper? Right. Delia Sotelo Fierros: And most of our families here in Tucson are from Northern Mexico. So even there, there's been some cultural opportunities for me to learn about Northern Mexico culture compared to Central Mexico culture. And that's been really exciting as well to learn the differences. And again, that's really what drives my work is that curiosity about my students' lives and how can I help them connect what we learn in the classroom to the outside world. Shari Kaku: Bye. Theodore Chao: And I think a lot of teachers struggle with that because it's difficult. And I think what Delia is showing in this particular lesson is just listen, right? And then see where the math goes. I think Shakiyya you were saying something earlier that the math can be messy, right? It is about problem solving. It's not about coming with simplistic word problems that have a predefined answer and a strategy you want to emphasize. And so allow that math model to emerge. Shari Kaku: Thanks for sharing that, Delia. There's a lot think about there. And there seems to be a core that really, ⁓ a person, right, Dr. Turner that really sparked your interest. Shakiyya, you want to get us started? Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Jenn: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I think we got a little bit of the insight around like the origin story and also a beautiful snapshot around mathematics and the meaning and how to engage in the curiosity. So my question is going to connect to this a little bit less on the origin story of mathematics education. Theodore Chao: from the worlds that your students are weaving and their stories they're telling us. Shari Kaku: Yeah, I think messiness what could, you know, I fear myself, right? Like ⁓ what point are you, ⁓ do you go when there's not really a map sometimes? ⁓ do you go? How do I connect to the math when ⁓ are there yet? I think it's that road ⁓ question, we there yet? Right? And who's ⁓ So I about that as she was too, Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shakiyya Bland: And also just thinking about the creative use of mathematics. So this chapter, thinking about how students able to ⁓ create So what partnerships helped cultivate this idea around mathematical modeling to invest in students' curiosity and creativity? Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shari Kaku: So it's really important to have some kind of thought partner in this work, right? Yeah. Yeah. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Coaching came up, the importance of coaches, the role Holly Tate played as educator, as a mathematics coach, and that partnership me personally is just ⁓ in my own past experience. So was so rich to hear like it's taking place and it's ongoing, like Holly's role in that conversation. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jenn: I would love to just share a little bit more about co-conspirator We have Holly Tate, who's a co-author. ⁓ And can't be here today, but she is actually one of the authors. alongside of teacher's voice, I love that we actually have a math coach who's really, really invested in working with school teams to really bring a lot of these ⁓ culture-responsive math modeling out. Shakiyya Bland: And then that thought partnership to extend beyond. And so in Holly's narrative sharing the interaction between community. So engaging with tribal leaders and people from the community to have these complex conversations about land, stolen land. like, again, this is elementary, know? So youth being able to be... Jenn: ⁓ One thing that I would love to share about ⁓ Holly Tate is that she recently completed her doctoral degree and her dissertation was focused on how to work with teachers to really authentically bring more ⁓ critical awareness around social justice and ⁓ of the criticality, critical consciousness, particularly ⁓ spaces schools ⁓ where Shari Kaku: Yeah. Yes. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shari Kaku: Yeah, second grade. Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Shakiyya Bland: to engage in these complex conversations that are taking place in their world and how mathematics can be used to help them and make sense ⁓ their world. Yeah. Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Jenn: ⁓ There might not always be spaces for that. And how do we make math more humanizing? And I think that's kind of where math modeling comes in. I met Holly through my very favorite form of PD, which is lesson study. I met her even before the EQSTEMM ⁓ through kind getting together ⁓ and working teams. Lesson studies are powerful way to do professional development because it's teacher led. Theodore Chao: what you're talking about is the idea of community, the idea of coaching, right? And I think that in this, right, bringing it back to TODOS and TODOS' deep, deep origins within Arizona and Southwest United States, you know, like this work heavily is centered around Marta Civil's work with community funds of knowledge and mathematics, right? Erin Turner is on this project, right? And so there's a lot of deep connections with what we as TODOS have been doing for 20 years now. Shakiyya Bland: Mm-hmm. Jenn: is not consultant driven, it really empowers teachers. And I think this chapter is all about empowering teachers. And so just even understanding the structure and the professional development models that are available for us as math educators that honor the brilliance of educators is really important to center. So I wanna share that I met her through lesson study and she was a coach at the time and she was bringing along these. Theodore Chao: and then seeing how this work then connects with Delia's classroom and what she's doing. But also like, it's not just about the students growth, right? What I love is that Delia talked about her own growth as a math teacher, her own growth and her own confidence in mathematics coming through doing this work, right? Shakiyya Bland: No Jenn: brilliant teachers who are really curious about how to make math more meaningful and how it could be more grounded in issues that kids care about. And to bring math closer and build a relationship with young children so that ⁓ can actually have this very positive experience learning mathematics. And that's where math modeling came in. Math modeling is a very creative process. ⁓ very open in that there's open in the middle, ⁓ open in the beginning. Shari Kaku: Yeah, and I think was saying, you know, once you see something, you change your kind of point of view, right? And you look at what you teach in a different way. It's you can't look at it any other way, right? So ⁓ talked about mathematizing the world around you, right? Humanizing it and mathematizing it. you the hope too, I think through ⁓ reading article too, is the hope that we don't think just mathematizing or what is math. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Jenn: ⁓ Because a lot of times we're asking students to kind of share with us their lived experience, which Delia talks about even with her story in the chapter ⁓ where she just gets kids to share what happened in the weekend. But building that relationship with students allows you to kind of understand what's happening with families and communities and just the school context that kids really care about. And that's where a lot of our modeling tasks come from. Shari Kaku: is not just about adding numbers together, right? ⁓ You know, just out your bill to see if it's now that it's all computer generated, ⁓ right? It's someone adding ⁓ you know, nonetheless, we that like you think Jenn said, how did I, did I, can I get to this podcast on time? Right. And really recognizing with kids too that that's math. ⁓ Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Hahaha! Yeah, yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yeah. Jenn: and student generated, not like us saying, let's do a lesson around. And that's kind of even how this particular that Holly shares comes about. And it was curricular related, ⁓ second were learning about indigenous communities in Virginia. There's a big focus on Virginia ⁓ history and of course histories. But it was a really way to connect Shakiyya Bland: Yeah. And when you set the technology piece, I'm thinking about what we need to solve? What do we need to teach students and young people to help cultivate their agency in humanizing and being empathetic? Part of title includes cultivating empathy in this conversation around mathematics and mathematical modeling. So what Jenn: to how we could even look at some of the ways that Native Americans lost their land. And that's the whole centerpiece. And I can share more about that, but I think that just kind of understanding that there are structures that really allow us to elevate student and teachers' voices, even in our professional development, I think is something that I can share as a math teacher educator. I love Delia's connection as a teacher, a leader. I'll let her share. Shakiyya Bland: can we teach students to engage in these topics because AI can't solve all of these problems? Like, ⁓ keep empathy in it. When we're talking about data and all of complex problems in their real world, we need to also center empathy in that conversation. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Yeah. Theodore Chao: I do like that Jenn brought that in the activity did in Virginia where they looked at land loss, and particularly land loss of indigenous ⁓ nations, that it just, let's talk about this. Let's look at some data and let's, you know, and I love that they had the images of using the area tiles to figure you know, what land was lost. Jenn: more of that. Shakiyya Bland: you Theodore Chao: and how it was taken away and stolen, right, from indigenous nations. But then they brought in someone from that tribal council to talk about it, right? So the students then got to really see that this is not just a history that's in our books, this is living. And there are people that are affected by this still to this day. And I like that ⁓ you have to bring it back to the source, right? You have to bring ⁓ ⁓ back. And I think she used the term historical awareness, ⁓ engagement. Delia Sotelo Fierros: I think from a teacher perspective, it's important to remain curious. think it's important to want to push ⁓ and to branch out. ⁓ We often feel very constrained and tied to our curriculum and feel like we can't ⁓ away from it. But Shari Kaku: Yeah. Delia Sotelo Fierros: if you bring the students' voices in, if you bring in their curiosities and you're able to tie it to this math concept that maybe is very abstract for them, and suddenly it's just this, ⁓ I get it. It's this light bulb moment for them. And the lesson that we talk about in the chapter that we write about, in third grade can be very complex for students. Shakiyya Bland: Yeah. Theodore Chao: but cultivating empathy, right? So the kids can see that math is all these things, right? Not just solving problems on worksheet. Shakiyya Bland: Mm-hmm. Shari Kaku: Yeah. And I'm also, I always think about Kari Kokka you know, sharing that in order to understand our history, we have to look for it ourselves, right? It just doesn't, you know, it's not going to be in your typical textbook. And as I, you know, venture into learning more about the Japanese American incarceration too, there's little pieces I wonder like, you know, if they sold their car, how did they get to the bus stop? Kind of, you know, just those little pieces that you wonder. Delia Sotelo Fierros: But suddenly when they started thinking, a lot of us go to the swap meet over the weekend and the puestos are laid out in different ways and some have tables and some don't have tables. But really the vendor has to consider how to lay out their space. then they had to come up with that, right? If you were a vendor at the swap meet, how would you organize your space? How would you? Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Mm. Shari Kaku: all the things that people had to go through to get to, you know, they're colonized, right? Like what happens and the hope to, right? I'm sure somebody would, from the indigenous, you know, people in your area would wanna talk about it, cause they're losing their language. They ⁓ physical things, but they're also losing their language. So, ⁓ know, what part of that too would help understand or have empathy, right? And yeah. Delia Sotelo Fierros: organize this area and, you know, bringing in that mathematical idea to them was just a moment to work with math, but also work with something that they knew. So bridging both things together was very powerful. And just like Jenn talked about, you know, knowing the different kinds of PDs that there are and the different resources, I think that's really important for teachers too in the classroom. And how can I branch out of this if needed? Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: I guess my take away, my closing take away would be to not shy away from complex problems, current events. I know it's challenging, yet in building community that can help ⁓ engage in those discussions math class. Delia Sotelo Fierros: And really allowing ourselves to do that because I don't think we allow ourselves enough for different restrictions or however we might feel. But I think it's important that we make time for those connections and we make time for those opportunities where we might be doing a math modeling task instead of the math lesson for that day. But that math modeling task is going to get students talking, it's going to get students connecting. Theodore Chao: Mm-hmm. Shari Kaku: Mmm. Theodore Chao: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, mean, I think that there's been a revolution happening. And I a lot of these people from the CGI world, right? And this idea that math is much more than solving quick answer problems that, you know, think, Shakiyya, talked a lot about sense making, right? That math is a journey. Math can be messy. Students see themselves as problem solvers. And I love that. That's really... Delia Sotelo Fierros: And even our language learners, you know, when we're doing something that they know or that they can relate to, you know, they're ⁓ and they're participating and they're engaged. ⁓ with a curricular lesson, we might not see that level of engagement and interest. Shakiyya Bland: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I have a follow-up question. So much to unpack for me and digest and sit with. my follow-up question relates to like these catch-up conversations in student voices, making connections between the classroom and community and. Theodore Chao: we want to cultivate. And I think, unfortunately, many of us ⁓ ⁓ and breathe this work are in classrooms in which we can talk about this, right? And then it's really hard to do. So I love that this work, not only on the website, there's multiple examples of it, but now we're seeing through this chapter, Holly doing it, right? As a math coach, as a teacher, right? Delia doing it. And then now getting to hear how the work has evolved, and she's doing it. Shakiyya Bland: Funds of knowledge was also a term that was ⁓ shared earlier. So for our listeners that are just now coming into contact with some of this vocabulary and terminology, can either one of you speak to funds of knowledge and importance ⁓ these mathematical conversations extending beyond the classroom? Theodore Chao: even more right in her classroom. These things are possible, right? Shari Kaku: I wanted to highlight before we ended to Delia's bumper sticker, right? Which was, hope I, Delia, I hope I quote you correctly, but it says, look around you. Where do you see math? Right? ⁓ maybe we'll have to create that bumper sticker before we see her in June at the TODOS conference ⁓ T-shirt Yeah. Delia Sotelo Fierros: Do you want to share a little, Jenn, on what funds of knowledge is? feel like there's a researchy question, and then there's also like the teacher aspect of it. Shakiyya Bland: Yeah, okay. Jenn: Well, I I think it's a lot of what Delia does in her catch-up conversation. I love that piece in the article or in the chapter because, you know, it's really kind of tapping into students' lived experiences, their culture, their lived histories. just so much that students come with ⁓ ⁓ know, whether it's like, ⁓ know, just ⁓ sustaining practices. We really want to know our students so that we can Theodore Chao: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. And that's a great way to end, right? So like, thank you very much for all of you. This is concluding the teacher section, right? And now we'll move on to two other episodes. And then I think we're going to do a live recording at the TODOS conference this June. So come see us in Garden Grove this summer. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Jenn: ⁓ really celebrate that. remember, you know, ⁓ Delia shared a little bit about her ⁓ experiences, ⁓ I was born in the States, but I lived in Korea. And when I was growing up, I remember not having the kind of space where I was asked about my culture in a very inviting way, you know. Shakiyya Bland: Yes, please come out, join in the community. Theodore Chao: Yeah. Shari Kaku: We should have had all those ⁓ restaurants we highlighted, maybe host the food part of the books, the one that have been, have our ⁓ Yeah, there it is. Please come on up, please sign up. Theodore Chao: Ha ha. ⁓ Yeah. Don't worry. There's a lot of good eating in Orange County. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you all. Thanks, yeah. Jenn: and that's really a long time ago. I don't wanna date myself, but I think there's this notion that some classrooms, the teacher really provides a space to honor and sustain the kind of culture you bring. And I just didn't remember that when I was growing up. And I just think it's so powerful when teachers can recognize that because I think that's when students see themselves shine in ways that is just beyond Shari Kaku: Thank you, Shakiyya, for co-hosting with me this episode. And thanks, Teddy, always for the tech and always leading with helping our crew move along. Thank you. Theodore Chao: Ha ha. Okay, thanks y'all. Shakiyya Bland: Bye. Jenn: ⁓ Being a student. It's being a person. I think it honors your I think that's really what funds of knowledge ⁓ you to do it allows you to bring your whole personhood to the space you you know, you're occupying and ⁓ I celebrate that and ⁓ Even if it's just you know sharing what you did this weekend But that's the kind of ⁓ base that the teacher can do a lot with you know Shakiyya Bland: Yeah. Yes. Jenn: And so Delia, I would love for you to share like, what do you learn from your catch-up conversations? Delia Sotelo Fierros: Yeah, and it doesn't take a lot. Come in Monday morning, finish your breakfast, let's all get in a circle and share about our weekends. And then students also start making connections with each other. ⁓ hey, I did that too. that's something I also did. So it builds this very strong and connected opportunity. ⁓ ⁓ allows us also to find those pieces that we might bring into the lessons. One thing I love to do is in word problems, I changed the names to maybe their siblings' names or their parents' names. And even just that small tweak is big for some students because now it's a problem about their mom and not this name that sometimes they can't even pronounce. it just changes things for them. I think that those small things matter because we're saying, want to know who you are beyond these walls. I want to know what makes you happy beyond these walls. And I also think about our students who struggle in the classroom, our students who are learning to read, our students who are barely acquiring some of these academic skills. They may be very talented in many other ways outside of the classroom. I think about my student who can't read yet, but she's a grateful folklórico dancer, and that brings her lot of joy. I think about my student who struggles to stay focused and he's a great football player. And I have another student who's a great baseball player. And so they have all of these talents and skills that oftentimes the way that the system is set up doesn't allow them to shine in those ways. And I think when we show curiosity and allow them to share about that, I think it makes them feel heard. It makes them feel valued. And they need to have that. was just listening to another episode of the TODOS podcast, and they talked about the importance of connections, especially for mathematics education. And we really need that because oftentimes students feel like they cannot do math and they have this negative math identity. But when we help them connect it to something that they know or that they feel comfortable with, their whole math identity might change. And that's really powerful for us to be able to do as math educators because we may not see our work in that way, but we can when we use those funds of knowledge and when we allow them to share who they are. Shari Kaku: you were talking, Delia, ⁓ I was thinking about not only your students, you changing your students, but how has this changed your on being a mathematician? Because you started the conversation with, ⁓ as I a student, ⁓ I was, was fast, right? And I was celebrated for my quickness and accuracy, which is kind of old school. Many of us, I think, in this space were brought up with that being a plus of who you were, right? And I think of my daughter when my teacher, her teacher said, she's an A student. And I thought about, well, you didn't talk about her problem solving, right? And those kinds of things. So can you share a little bit about your journey too, in terms of your own identity as a mathematician? Delia Sotelo Fierros: I see myself as a problem solver today. In fact, recently there was somebody was asking a multiplication problem where it was multiplying two digits by two digits and everybody around me was stumped. But I was thinking about all of my skills that I had I didn't need paper. I could think about this and process it and solve it. And people were going, how did you do that? Jenn: I'm Delia Sotelo Fierros: I well, you know, I'm grouping my ones and my tens. And would not have been able to do that in when I started at the University of Arizona because ⁓ I felt I had to use paper and I had to line up my numbers and do all of the steps that my teachers taught me and my K-12 experience. But through my math methods and through my work since I graduated through these National Science Foundation projects, I have been able to see how math is flexible and how math can be an opportunity for kids to show different strategies. It's not just one way. There are many ways to get there and every way is the correct way. And that's what I tell my students. Whatever makes sense to you is the correct way. I don't have the correct way. Your classmate doesn't have the correct way. It's what makes sense to you. Shari Kaku: and Delia Sotelo Fierros: And that's been a big shift for me because I grew up thinking it's one way only. In fact, I remember one of my teachers saying, well, if you don't do it this way, it's not correct. And I was trying to voice to her, but I still got the same answer as you. Why is this not correct? Well, that's not how you wrote down the steps in your notes. it just, it made me shut down, you know, that creativity and problem solving really made me shut down, but Shari Kaku: Yes. you Delia Sotelo Fierros: Today I can tell my students, anyway is the correct way. I just need you to explain it to me walk me through your thinking and walk me through how you broke these numbers apart and ⁓ you decided to do. Jenn: Yeah, I love that Delia. And I think that's part of the modeling cycle that liberates students from just thinking math just has one right answer. The way you're talking about it, because even with the puesto, the problem of area, it depends on all the different variables, like all the different things that you're gonna put in your booth that helps you think about the space in the area. And so in modeling, think it's a very creative process. And you were saying Delia, like math is flexible and it's creative and it's iterative. And you can actually, a math model, you actually get better and better with your model as you refine. So there's no mistakes. It's just that your model is getting more precise as you go through iteration. ⁓ I think that is really liberating for a lot of mathematicians. And I think one of the best ways to change the narrative that is so rampant in the society about I'm not a math person is to start thinking like, you know what? I'm a mathematician. I apply math in everyday situations. And we do. think about, am I going to get to this podcast on time? There's a lot of variables. What are all the things that I'm doing in between that's going to... ⁓ You know help me get there on time. So just getting kids to really see that math is broader than just computation on a piece of paper like, you know, it is actually solving big problems and making decisions and I think that was one of just kind of connection to the Scenario that you saw with the ⁓ Native American land loss. Not only did they mathematize it but they actually developed awareness historic importance and also kind of this civic empathy and kind of it was very emotional for the students when they met the Native American guest speaker who talked about, you know, land loss. And it's not just land loss. They read a book, stolen words and like how you also lose your language. And I remember, ⁓ know, I wasn't really allowed to speak Conglish, which is Korean and English together, right? ⁓ you're bilingual, you kind of interchange, right? So that happens. And I think the kids actually saw that like with math, like we could actually see like what was that land loss? And at first they were using, know, play dough and the story you can read like the different kinds of tools even. And mathematicians use tools. And they first started to like put some square tiles along the land that was Native American reservation. ⁓ ⁓ realized, wow, these squares are too big. And then they... Shari Kaku: Bye. Jenn: actually looked at centimeters, centimeter cubes, right? that allowed them to be a little more precise. So then that became a little bit more accurate. Again, that's kind of this idea that, you know, we use tools, we use math and we refine our thinking ⁓ that could also help us understand the situation. And so they started to see, well, this is what the Americans were to live on, you know. compared to the whole United States and that ratio, these are second graders. They're starting to see. It's like, I think when you have real world situations, you actually have this amazing differentiation because real world problems are so complex, right? And you can go so far with all of this math that was happening in Delia's class and with Holly and her teachers. I think that's the piece ⁓ the math that I think we can also celebrate. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Mm-hmm. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Yeah. Jenn: that we can actually expose our kids to really powerful math and real rigorous math. they actually say, teach us the math so we can understand this, you know, or we can solve this. Like, isn't that music to our ears? And that happens in a situation where they care about, like, we want to know, like, how to maximize or optimize this space, you the puesto space, ⁓ so can have more products or more ⁓ things sell or We want to understand the situation better so that we can advocate for people that they care about. So, yeah, I just wanted to kind of tie it back to what kids were doing with the mathematics and how that was actually really developing awareness, not just history, but of ⁓ how we also be empathetic and develop that awareness around people and their histories. Shakiyya Bland: Communion, yeah, what's coming up for you, Shari? I'm sorry. Shari Kaku: Thank you. no, no, I was thinking, Jenn, like those are the underpinnings of calculus that your second graders are doing, right? And you didn't, and then measurement usually doesn't come in to later grades. You didn't tell them, hey, use inches instead of feet or, right? So that was so cool to see that it was just natural, like you said, you know, teach us the math to solve it, which you don't, ⁓ usually hear, why do I need to know this? Right. So thinking about that. Yeah. Shakiyya Jenn: Yeah. No. No. ⁓ Yes. Shakiyya Bland: Definitely, yeah. So I'm a visual learner. And so as both of you were sharing, I was thinking about the interactive nature of mathematics, the process of mathematics. And sometimes I feel like schooling can get in the way of math learning for the purposes of connection to land, to people, and community. ⁓ Shari Kaku: Sorry. Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: I just found conversation very rich with that discussion around those ⁓ connections and then extending beyond the classroom to others in the community so that students at this young age are cultivating this mindset of seeing mathematics not just as a classroom ⁓ school but it's something that is ongoing, that's adaptive. Just beautiful description. Yeah. I we also about like posing questions. What type of questions would help an that's trying to enter this Because all of which, I we're talking about like the focus elementary, but as someone who's taught in like secondary, so many takeaways. So how... How can we construct purposeful questions in this area around cultivating equity and empathy so much more? Delia Sotelo Fierros: Something I love to do is just, what do you notice? What do you wonder? But with pictures from the community. then you can share a little bit about yourself too. know, like I think about the picture I took when I went to Food City, which is a grocery store here in Tucson. ⁓ primarily share Hispanic products and it was during Christmas time. And somebody had purchased maybe hundreds of hot chocolate packets, the Abuelita hot chocolate. Shakiyya Bland: Amen. Delia Sotelo Fierros: And they had it in their cart and I'm thinking, whoa, like I need to get a picture of this. And so I took a picture and I showed my class on Monday and they were wondering, you know, how many gallons of milk would they make? How many people could drink? So they were already thinking of all of these mathematical ideas with a very simple, quick notice and wonder that I did before my curriculum lesson. And then it's really fun to see them wanna bring in their own pictures. I saw math here and in this way. Now let's notice and wonder as a class together. And it's a very simple thing that you can add to your lessons, but it just brings this curiosity from students so that they may see how math is not just in the classroom, it's not just a content area, but something that's around us every day, everywhere we go. Shakiyya Bland: Hmm Jenn: Delia I want to piggyback on that because our kindergarten teachers love the Mathematizing the World Routine, which we featured in the chapter, ⁓ much that they started to kind of tie it with their Star of the Week. And so when the Star of the Week would kind of up, they would actually bring a picture instead of the teacher finding the picture, the students would bring a picture. And each week, the kids would do a Notice and Wonder and there were math And that poster then was sent with the kid back home. And then the families were trying to like figure out these answers mathematizing They were doing the math together and were questions about like, know, the have collections and they want to share their collections. So they started pictures of their collections of toys ⁓ and books they read. ⁓ And kids to ask how many, how much questions. And as a year went on, Shakiyya Bland: Hmm. Jenn: they started to bring really fascinating like road trip pictures and things like that, or like different visits that they had. And then they started to ask like different questions, like how far, how long, you know, and like, and so the teacher was like amazed, like, ⁓ my gosh, I didn't even teach them measurement kinds of questions, but now they're asking these questions and that tied into the curriculum as a year was going on. These kids were like, what shapes do you see? And Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Shari Kaku: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jenn: That was geometry in kindergarten. I think that was a very powerful way to have families engaged in this routine that became like, it was happening in school, but it was like they were noticing math everywhere and the families got involved. And that was really exciting see as a spinoff. Shari Kaku: and yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Shari Kaku: I'm sure the person who shared the photo elevated their status as well, right? Because they can answer the questions because they were there. thinking about connecting to identity and agency, that seems such a powerful, small but very powerful way to bring in self to the space. to add? Yeah. Jenn: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yeah. Jenn: Yeah, not sure your question about like how can teachers get started, whether it's their middle school or high school, because a lot of our scenarios were elementary. I think like the planning tool that we provided, I also wrote an article called Design Principles for Community-Based Mathematics, Math Modeling. ⁓ And think there's a lot of great prompts and as Holly, as a coach, she would kind of have this opportunity to talk to teachers about ⁓ that are happening in their classroom. And that became kind of the centerpiece. And teachers are amazing. They'll take that. And then we did like a concept map. And they started to see all their curricular connections. And that's been like, when we do that, even in a vertical team, we start to see like, ⁓ well, our school is really pushing to be a green school. Shakiyya Bland: Nice. Jenn: You know, the principal is coming in and saying, Hey, what are some green school initiatives? The kids are getting involved in asking questions like, what about food waste? What about recycling? Right. And then the centerpiece of their concept map. And then they start brainstorming. What are all the math concepts here? And then they start to say, ⁓ my gosh, this one context that's real really happening at the school can teach us about measurement data collection, you know, Um inferences, you know computation multi-step so it becomes like instead of doing just like traditional textbook problems now like okay now we know how much you know food we're wasting so now how are we going to see how much food that's going to be in a month or in a uh, you know in in the school year So they start doing these multi-step problem solving so I do think that it takes a little bit of kind of thinking about all the math connections, but once you see it, you can't unsee it. It's one of those things. know, our teachers start to think that way. And then they're like, ⁓ my gosh, this is a great math modeling situation. So I think that's where we start. start small and then we start to notice just like the kids, right? Shari Kaku: Yeah. Yeah. Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Shari Kaku: Yeah Shakiyya Bland: Yes. So I was thinking of multi-step and that led me to think about we were talking about tamales. And ⁓ so the multi-step process of cooking engaging with food. So thinking about this question around food and culture community, connections to mathematics or beyond that connections to ⁓ just home and hope and. Shari Kaku: She's cute. Ha ha. Delia Sotelo Fierros: Thanks. Shakiyya Bland: So what ⁓ food mean to you? Is there a favorite dish that you can share or ⁓ space that reminds you of community or home? Jenn: I'll share one. I know Delia shared before the recording. I'll share. We did talk about this. So we do make dumplings every New Year because there's one soup in Korean called tteokguk and it's like a rice cake dumpling. It's delicious. But you have to have one so that you can get one year older with the New Year. Now, as I'm getting older, I really don't want to eat that tteokguk because I don't want to keep getting older. Shari Kaku: Mm-hmm. Shakiyya Bland: Awesome. Jenn: But ⁓ when we do this as a family gathering, you have to make a lot of dumplings and we don't want store bought dumplings for this. So all the kids would gather, all my nieces and nephews and my son just has these very fond memories of making dumplings. And you know, we talked a lot about like, you know, when you make dumplings, they're misshapen. And I think that really important to remember, like not about perfection. Shakiyya Bland: Then... Jenn: And sometimes I think whether it's an Asian culture or a different culture, there are certain kinds of cultural values that could put a lot of pressure on kids. so when I was raising my boys, you know, it wasn't about perfection. like I have one kid who's like a perfectionist, you know, you have two kids and they're like total opposites, right? And I think it was really a great analogy of like, you know what? We can make our dumplings and it can look like this and it still tastes good, you know? Shakiyya Bland: Yeah. Jenn: So I think when we talk about food and holidays, there's this caution that we want to go deeper into the culture beyond food and holidays. ⁓ I think that was one example. We to value what we bring to the table. And it's not about perfection, but it's a lot about effort, making all those hundreds of dumplings so that everybody will have plenty in their soup bowl. I think that's an important thing to understand about different cultures. And it's not like one cultural value can be translated even among Asian cultures, right? Koreans might be different than Vietnamese or So I think just kind of having that cultural humility to learn more about every child's culture I think is important because I think Shakiyya Bland: you Jenn: You know, we all, teachers all have such great intentions and we all wanna learn about how to relate to different cultures. But I think having humility that, you know what, I can't know everything, but I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna learn and be curious. And I think Delia said, you know, have to be curious. I love that. I think that's important. Shakiyya Bland: Yes. Yeah. Delia Sotelo Fierros: I think every child, every family brings something very unique with them to our classrooms. ⁓ know, I teach in a school where most of my students are Hispanic, ⁓ even then every child is so different because of the values ⁓ their history and perhaps their first generation Mexican American or maybe their fourth or fifth generation Mexican American. ⁓ it's important to be curious. ⁓ I think just thinking about they bring with them and what we can build on. And how can we use what they already know and their current experiences to empower them and to position them like as the person who knows. Because ⁓ often come from a perspective of like that deficit mindset, I think about that. the pobrecitos, they live. in South Tucson, they won't know they're gonna struggle. But that's not true, that's not who they are. They have a lot more to offer and it's important to find those pieces that really makes them unique and they're wise. At their young age, they're very wise. A lot of them have lived experiences that some of us adults may never have. And I think it's important to be curious and elevate those and position them as the ones who know. And I just want to go back really quick to your question about food. you're ever in Tucson, it's important you know, we the best 23 miles of Mexican food in the United States. So lots offer here in Tucson, ⁓ lots of to visit. I personally love and I love, Antojo ⁓ which they have authentic dishes from Puebla. and it's more in central Mexico. It's a rare here in Tucson, but food from Puebla is very good and Antojo Poblano's my go-to spot. Shakiyya Bland: Yes, our listeners can't see, but this conversation, there are lots of smiles, food is not a surface question. think Teddy Chao our co-host, I thank him for this question because just listening to the story behind the impact of food and then what would it be like to engage in mathematics that same type of experience? experience. So that's one of the things that I'm sitting with as I was able to listen. But I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for dedicating time to connect with each other and then also your co-authors to share your stories, your narratives, the experiences of the young people that you engaged with and to inspire ⁓ only myself, but so many other listeners and educators. that are doing this work. any other comments, key insights? Shari Kaku: I noticed that when we share photos of ourselves or food or anything, I even noticed when I do PD, I ask the teachers, what did you hear just now? And they all say, ⁓ joy and laughter. And it's like, why? Because it was so personal. So as you shared your different adventures yourself, your food, I could tell too there was a different passion, right? As you shared. different demeanor. I want to thank you for being our space. we leave though, are there any like, I know you had take action as the last part of your article too. Is there any piece that ⁓ a take action piece or maybe if you had to write a bumper sticker or ⁓ a t-shirt that said a message, ⁓ might that be? Thinking of this chapter being around teachers. Delia Sotelo Fierros: I like the idea of a bumper sticker. thinking I would love to have something that says, look around you, where do you see math? Jenn: Mm-hmm. Shakiyya Bland: Hmm. Shari Kaku: thanks. Jenn: I think what was really powerful in the ⁓ is to think that taking action ⁓ look a lot of different ways. And in the second grade lesson, taking action was writing poems. And could take a creative kind of venue in that you could be sharing your, not just your experience learning about... indigenous land loss, but you could express it in a very poetic way that provides more counter narratives that people need to hear in our community. So I think, you know, it's not a sure-bubber-sticker idea, but I think that just knowing that students can take action in a lot of different creative ways, I think it's a really good lesson for all of us. Shakiyya Bland: Yes, thank you. And I also want to highlight ⁓ that we will share some resources EQSTEMM and encourage our listeners to engage with those resources and connect with us in community. I know TODOS also is hosting a book club, so we'll share more information that. But yeah, thank you so much, Shari Shari Kaku: Thank you. Jenn: Thank you. Shari Kaku: Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for spending your Friday with us today. Delia Sotelo Fierros: Thank you for having me. Jenn: course, our pleasure. Delia Sotelo Fierros: I enjoyed it. Thank you. Muchas gracias. Jenn: 감사합니다