Paola: Welcome back to Everyday ABA. I'm your host Paola and I'm joined today by Brittany and Leslie, all of us wearing pink because it's Wednesday. We're recording on a Wednesday and as Brittany loves to remind us every single week on Wednesdays we wear pink. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Exactly. It's a trend. I have everybody at work doing it. Leslie, thank you for joining. My mother is doing it. as she as you know, she drives Paola: Wow. Leslie: Okay. You got everybody. Brittanny: trucks. So she's at the ports wearing pink and everybody's asking her, and she's My daughter makes me. And I'm like, that's right. Leslie: Yeah. Brittanny: That's right. So join us. Paola: I love it. Well Leslie: Even though mine looks cream, but it is pink. It's it's a light pink. Brittanny: It's a shape and that counts. Mm-hmm. Paola: Okay. It's a light pink. You're starting at the very beginning of pink and you're gonna Brittanny: Yeah. You're Katie. Paola: shape your way to the darker pink. How about that? Leslie: Yes. Yeah. Brittanny: Exactly. You're Katie. It's okay, Katie. You borrowed that from somebody. Leslie: I know. I really realize. Paola: She borrowed it from what's his name? the Yes, why can't I think of his name right now? Brittanny: who's almost too gait of function or whatever? Mm-hmm. I don't know, I just had a brain fart too. There we go. I was finna say Derek and I was like, that's too black. That's not his name. Paola: Damien, Damien. No, Damien Leslie: yes, Damien, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paola: just gave it to you and you're like, here you go, wear this shirt. Leslie: Exactly. That is exactly what happened 'cause I was looking through my closet and I was like, I have a lot of black black and Paola: Yeah, me too. I actually just ordered this from Amazon so that I could have more than one pink thing because I don't want to wear the same pink shirt every single Wednesday. Leslie: Yeah. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I have pink pants. I actually just spilt some of my oil on it. So I need a new pair of pink pants. If anybody has a cute pair they'll work for work, because the other ones I've found, I don't like them so far. So Leslie: Mm. Brittanny: help us list out. Leslie: Right? Paola: All right. Well, I do feel bad because we have a special guest today and I should have emailed her and let her know that it would be Wednesday and we should wear Leslie: It was Pink Bay. Paola: pink. But I wasn't Brittanny: Yes. Yes. Paola: thinking about it until I got dressed today, which was an hour ago because I'm it's been in my pajamas all day, to be honest. Leslie: Ha ha Brittanny: Mm. Paola: Then I was like, it's Wednesday, we wear pink. So sorry, but we have our special guest, Radica, today, who is wearing blue, but it's still a complimentary color to pink. So welcome. Brittanny: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. My pants are Leslie: It is, it is. Dr. Radhika Achari: Looks good together. Brittanny: blue. Leslie: Ha ha. Paola: Yeah, Dr. Radhika Achari: There we go, we're on the same page. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paola: welcome to the Everyday ABA podcast. Dr. Radhika Achari: Thank you for having me. Paola: Yeah, of course. so can we start off by having you just introduce yourself to our listeners and tell our listeners about you. Dr. Radhika Achari: Sure, I'm happy to do that. So my name's Dr. Dadika Chari. I've been in the field of ABA for about fifteen years. I've been a BCBA for the past ten. my journey to ABAs kind of at that time what f I felt kind of normal or at least was with company I was at where I was actually going to completely different field. I was preparing for med school and then I wanted to I like kinda pulled back. I was like something's just not clicking fully. I wanna figure out, you know, what realistically I want my life to look like and all those things. And so I did research and then I kind of just picked a flyer off the wall. It's something that I've talked about kids. So my first experience was with early intervention. and then as I became a BCBA, I started kind of looking at different populations and seeing how it can then be worked with the adults. And so I worked with the Tex in Texas, the Med K class waiver. So instead of doing 18 months to 18, I did 18 to 65, which are Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: the same skills but drastically different on how you do it. and it was actually almost easier for me because I was the my age was very close to my client's age for the most part, with the younger adult. And so we kind of had more of like a sibling dynamic Paola: Mm mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: instead of like an authoritative right figure when you kinda get to the teens. And so it became a really more like conversational Like it when I started leaning into more of ACT and CBT and figuring out how those played in to ABA to kinda grow my skill set and absolutely fell in love with it. Brittanny: okay, but then my question is, I heard you say a few things on it, but I wanted to dive more in like you telling us how you went from like BCBA to doctorate in your organizational leadership. Dr. Radhika Achari: Absolutely. So when I got my doctorate, it was kinda crazy timeline. I actually took my board exam the Tuesday and then my wedding events started Wednesday. Was not planned. Brittanny: because your wedding thing's like five years long. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It looks beautiful, but long time. Dr. Radhika Achari: Uh-huh, basically. Yeah. yeah, and it started and he said thank you. Paola: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: so it was it was definitely not planned to be that way. but it was right around the same time where like the board exams were like going electronic. Like there was like a lot of weird like technical issues that I could not have foreseen. So I was supposed to take it like the session before February. I think it like November. And then I think they like didn't get my paperwork. Some Something that was not my fault happened. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: and then they were like, okay, so the next date is this Tuesday. And I was like, all right, then that's what we're doing. Paola: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: And I was just so prepared for my my exam. I am not a great test taker. but this board exam, I was like, I am so pumped for this. I'm ready. I just want to, I want to do it. And as soon as I finished, I was like, that wasn't a big deal. Like I just had all Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: this adrenaline still pumping. But it worked out, I like completely switched from like t study mode to like full wedding, like all of the Brittanny: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: events. It started with Wednesday with the Mandy, like over your hands. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: so then like the next day I just had to like sit straight for like eight hours and I was like, This is so different. But Leslie: Ha ha. Paola: Ha ha ha ha ha. Brittanny: Wait, so which one was easier? The the test or the wedding preparation? Yes. Dr. Radhika Achari: I think the board exam. Hundred percent. The board exam was just me like dumping my knowledge and Leslie: The board exam. my goodness. Dr. Radhika Achari: was like, I own this. Leslie: Right. Kinda like a weight Paola: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: Yeah. Leslie: off your shoulders. Like I've Brittanny: Yeah. Leslie: had to do all this work, all this prep, and it's like I'm done. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yes. And Brittanny: Well, also Dr. Radhika Achari: it Brittanny: she had a huge thing to look forward to if I gotta deal Leslie: Yes. Brittanny: with all that stress. So this is a piece of cake. Dr. Radhika Achari: Exactly. There was a high Paola: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: reward being able to like see Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: all the family coming in and like not have to, you know, multitask about anything. it was at the time where it still took like a month to get your board exam results. Paola: Mm, mm-hmm. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: So I my wedding like events in Houston started on Wednesday. we like did a whole caravan to Horseshoe Bay, which is by Austin, where our wedding was. So wedding events were like Friday through Sunday. Monday or Tuesday we like flew to Thailand for a honeymoon and we were able to do two weeks. So like that like took up a lot of that time that so Brittanny: Yeah. Paola: You weren't able to stress about it. Yeah. I remember having like Dr. Radhika Achari: I wasn't like No. Leslie: Mm-mm. Paola: two people that I took the test with and they would text me and be like, Do you have the result turned in? And I'm like, It's takes forty five days, like let it be But they they were it was like Leslie: Right Yes. Paola: day eighteen. They were already checking every morning. Brittanny: Well, also, I'm Dr. Radhika Achari: No. Brittanny: sorry, Paula, that's easy for you. You knew you were passing. They probably were stressed that they were not passing. Okay. Leslie: Right. They were probably like, my God, did I pass? Paola: No, I will say I remember walking out and I was gonna keep working that day. I was gonna go to the office and write reports and stuff. And then I like drove and I was like, I don't know. I'm gonna take like a little break. And so I went to the mall because it was near, it was like right across the street from the testing center. And I thought I'm gonna get something at the food court, maybe walk around. I like roamed around two stores and I was like, what am I doing? I can't even think. I was like, I need to go home. I walked out of that test thinking like, if I failed, I'll be like, yep. That makes total sense. Of course I failed. Like, and if I passed, I maybe, but I'm like, but if I Dr. Radhika Achari: You were protecting yourself. Leslie: Right, right. Paola: pass, I'll also be like, yeah, that makes total sense. I know this. You know, like it was just one of those, like, no matter what happens, like I know this and I understand. Like, if I pass, I won't be shocked. I will know that I know this, of course, and that's why I passed. But if I failed, It will also make sense because it's a very hard test because ABA is so technical, right? Like the words we use and you have to read the question exactly as it's written. You can't add anything that's not there. Leslie: Cannot infer Paola: You can't infer anything. You can't assume anything. And so that's where that's what I mean by like I would have been like, Yeah, that makes sense. Of course I failed, like I probably inferred too much and I read between the lines. But I do Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah. Paola: remember I just went home. I was like, Never mind, I'm not gonna work. I have to go lay down. Like my her brain hurt after those three and a half hours. Brittanny: See? And that's why I will never take that test because I assume everything. Paola: Yes. Dr. Radhika Achari: That is absolutely the hardest part about that. Because I remember when Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Leslie: It is. Dr. Radhika Achari: I was studying and we were doing like strat it was more like the strategy of what Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: to read and exactly what keywords and it that that's just what it meant. that was the hardest part for me because I was so used to being like, well, like in this situation, in this, in this. Like I was like, I want like a like it to be almost like an interview. Like I still have questions to ask you about the scenario. Yeah. Paola: Mm mm. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Leslie: Right, right. Paola: Yeah. Yes, yes. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: so wait, so you were at Thailand and then you passed. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah, so I came back and I was working because my job was still in Houston, so was working remotely. and so I was like setting up my office, like at my the place we were living, and I get an email, but like the they had like just figured out how to do like their email responses. So it Paola: Yeah. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: looked super fake. I was like Brittanny: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: What what is happening now? Like Right It's only been ten years. Yes. Paola: I think the board hold on, I think the board is still trying to figure out how to do emails and their website. Wasn't their website just down for like a month? Leslie: Is this real? Brittanny: Yes. I agree. Yes. Yes. Leslie: I agree. Dr. Radhika Achari: so I like remember like my husband was like at the office, just like me by myself in at our place and I was like trying to I was again logging in. It doesn't look it didn't even say pass or fail. It like said it said something else, but it was in green. So again, I was like, am I inferring? Did I pass? So I had like Paola: Ha ha ha. Brittanny: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: I was like, I took the exam. I should be able to figure this out. Exactly. Leslie: You're like, be direct. Just tell me directly. Brittanny: Yeah. Exactly. Dr. Radhika Achari: Very clear objective here. And so I remember screenshotting it and then send emailing my director and the HR person. and I was like, then I got on the phone, I was like, Can someone just look in this? Like Paola: Ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: can we double check that iPads? I'm like ninety nine percent sure. Exactly. Brittanny: Yeah. Make sure this is real. Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: So then it was like, my god, yes, it worked. So it was it was good timing though. Paola: So did you decide to get your doctorate after the BCBA? Cause now Dr. Radhika Achari: Yes. Paola: with this whole story, I'm like, so then you were like, the doctorate is gonna be so much easier than the BCBA. Leslie: So much easier than that. Paola: I bet, right? You're like, that's just easy. You walked across the stage, they hand you the diploma, they broke, they hood you. You're like, I know that I passed. It's so much Dr. Radhika Achari: Right? The the very dissonant boundaries. Paola: easier than the BACB website. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: That is so sad. But actually now I'm thinking about it. I was literally sitting right here when I did my defense because it was online. And Paola: well. Dr. Radhika Achari: that was actually so much easier than my board than taking the the getting even my results for the board exam. Paola: what what made you decide to go from BCBA to a doctorate in organizational leadership? Dr. Radhika Achari: So a lot of my family is in medicine. And so I had both one side my grandfather was a biochemist PhD. So he actually, even when I was like in middle school when I'd go shadow him at UTMB, then he would just kind of like have me around with him in the lab. Paola: Ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: And I didn't realize it at the time, but he had me like come into a room and he was like, Let's go listen to these people. And I said, Okay. And it was people doing their defense. And it was on Paola: Mm mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: microbiology. I was in eighth grade at this time. I had just taken, I was about to take freshman bio. And he was like, he called me Dikku, and like, so he like, I we watched his presentation. I was like, this is really interesting. Not that I like fully understand anyway. And he turns to me, he goes, Do you do you have any questions? He was like, just come up with one. And I was like, okay. Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: So from a young age he was like really encouraging this like being able to almost have this like philosophical doubt and like ask questions and even if you don't know it the goal is not to know everything, it's to almost Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: like figure out how to have this conversation back and forth and to always be learning. and the other side is full of medicine. So it was just always, okay, what what is the next step of learning? Learning was is very big as a family value. and so after my doctorate, I still had a lot of a lot of questions. I wanted to really kind of pursue things. and it was very difficult to kind of do more of the like entrepreneurship with a company and like be able to explore it yourself. And so I remember going to Weba and I had a conference, Paola: just gonna for our listeners, Weba is women in behavior analysis, right? Okay. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yes. and so I had done a workshop with somebody there and I had asked, I was like, Does it make sense? Because people don't know what ABA and a B C B A is. So like if what would you recommend as like higher like education or learning or like where do I continue to learn besides just like CEUs? And her recommendation was Don't do it in ABA because you may k kind of get pigeonholed, but do it in leadership because that's where the field is going. And she was very focused on OBM. And so I was like, okay, I got that. Like that makes sense. but I looked and like there was just like kind of the Chicago professional school or school psychology that had it, and I couldn't really figure out w w where to do this with, right? And I ended up work I ended up doing my PhD through Grand Canyon University. and this is before COVID. Their model worked out great because it was mostly online anyway, through like kind of like you do one class at a time, so it was very manageable. we were I started my PhD. The same I have a lot of weird timelines, I'm realizing. a lot Paola: Ha ha ha. Leslie: Ha ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: of reflection. But I Paola: She's gonna leave this episode like, did I get psychoanalyzed? No, we're I'm just a behaviorist and they just pretend to be therapists, Leslie and Brittany. Dr. Radhika Achari: Right? I know. It I just haven't. That's Leslie: Right. Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah. well I'm just nosy. That's what Leslie: Right. Right. Brittanny: that is. I love some stories. Mm-hmm. Leslie: Right. Me too. Dr. Radhika Achari: the best way to learn. so So I did it in organizational leadership with an emphasis in behavioral health. So I use BCBAs as my population for my study. But the reason where I why I did my PhD is I fought my grandfather who was the biochemist, he had he had passed away. And I kind of had this feeling, I was like, I wanna like do it. He always wanted to like see me cross the stage, like all these feelings of kind of like dealing with grief. And my husband in his infinite wisdom was like, Don't do it for that reason. You need to be able to tell me like a reason for yourself. that you want this to be because when things get hard you need to in my words basically you need to have motivation to keep going. You need to have a good Leslie: Yeah, for sure. Dr. Radhika Achari: strong why. I didn't take that well though when he told it to me. But again Leslie: Ha ha ha Paola: Do any of us take our husband's wise advice well? Leslie: No. No. Dr. Radhika Achari: You so that took a little bit of reflection and growth on my part. but we a year after getting married I got diagnosed with in an unexplained infertility But in my infinite wisdom, I was like, great, this is I'm gonna start my PhD, PhD. And it's like one way or another, I'm gonna have almost like my own like permanent product, like that I've done and I've put my energy and effort into something and I'm gonna make something. Like this is gonna be my legacy one way or the other. Leslie: Yeah. Brittanny: Okay, I like that. Dr. Radhika Achari: So that is not everybody's typical reason why they start a PhD. But that is Leslie: Right. Brittanny: No? No? Paola: But it's such a strong why. And now that I know that you have Leslie: It is. Paola: two kids, I'm like, and now you have three. You made three things. Look at you. Leslie: And look at you. Brittanny: Yeah. Well, also also you just Dr. Radhika Achari: Yes. Absolutely. Brittanny: said this like w it where it's recorded. So now your husband's just gonna play this when he knows that he's right. So Leslie: He said, You said infinite wisdom. Brittanny: Yeah, I'm not gonna be able to take that part out. I'm sorry. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Paola: You didn't just say my husband said something smart. Brittanny: Yeah, yeah. Leslie: Right. Like with his infinite wisdom. That's Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Paola: Ha ha. Leslie: funny. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Leslie: No, but that's great. great. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Paola: So then you just recently got your doctorate, you said a year ago. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah, I did my defense last March and Paola: Okay. Dr. Radhika Achari: I get my timelines are funny. I did my defense like on Tuesday and then we took this like giant family trip on my husband's sides like twelve Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: or eleven adults, like seven kids, Paola: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: all first cousins, like to Hawaii. And I was like, let's go. So I guess I I pair Paola: Ha ha ha. Brittanny: Yeah. Leslie: Again. Dr. Radhika Achari: my rewards with my like life. Yeah. Paola: There you go. There you go. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Yeah. She's Leslie: Right, for sure. That's motivating. Shoot. Dr. Radhika Achari: So I stay motivated. Brittanny: I feel like your your website fits everything you're doing because you're Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Brittanny: analyzing how can I d get this big thing out of the way and then we're gonna Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: act and do something positive after. That's all Paola: Ha ha ha. Brittanny: I'm trying to say. Dr. Radhika Achari: And you know exactly. And this is why like every like all the tools and strategies I use, I've it's because I've used it on myself and I know it's Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: effective. I know kind of how to tailor it to each person and kind of their situation. Because it's not just based on science, but it's also like really helpful for human nature. Leslie: So speak. Paola: Yeah, that's literally the point of the podcast, right? 'Cause as you're Leslie: Thanks, yep. Dr. Radhika Achari: A bitch. Paola: talking, I'm like, Brittany, I might have found someone that likes to do a short story long more than me. And I might have found someone that everything you're saying, they're gonna be like, she's you 'cause I'm always like, I'm just doing a million things and I have this and I have that. Brittanny: Yeah. I've been thinking that. The only difference is you s you paint the picture. Her story just happens to be long because she has another story within it. But you gotta be Leslie: Right. Brittanny: like the doctor walked in and he stood up really tall and then he said, and I'm like, what? Like Yes. Leslie: So descriptive. Brittanny: Yeah. Paola: It's all n necessary, I will say. Leslie: Right? Brittanny: Her stories are still good too. It's just Dr. Radhika Achari: Whoop Brittanny: definitely Leslie: Yes. Brittanny: described yeah, descriptive. Leslie: So I have a question. And this is like a personal question for me, because I am in a position where we're trying to do certain things, and I am trying to grow within our, I guess it would be our business or our field. And so we recently had an episode, episode 81 I believe it was, talking about getting promoted at work. And one of the things that the research said, was that it's important to have like a growth mindset, a growth Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm. Leslie: mindset if you wanna be promoted at work. And so for me, where that falls in is I need help. I don't mind growing. I love the end result of growing. I'm like, yay, I did it. But no, I do, I do, I do. But Paola: Yeah. Brittanny: No, I'm talking about for me. Leslie: I do like the end result of growing, but I feel like I get in my own way of growth because I feel like... I don't know this, so I could do a lot of research to try to figure out this, but the research seems daunting and am I looking at the right research and is this the right information and where do I start? And so I feel like for me, I just need to know like, if I want to grow in my professional career so that we can develop our business that we're trying to do and within our consulting, like where should I start with that? Like, you know, yeah, like where should anybody start? Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Paola: Give her the g give her the easy she's like, Where should I start? Like the hardest question ever. Leslie: Please. I'm like, please. I know, Brittanny: Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Leslie: and it's not really that hard, but for me it is. Brittanny: She like analyzed me. Yeah. Paola: Yeah. Just 'cause Brittany Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah, do. Paola: said that she has a website called Analyze and Act doesn't mean you Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Leslie: Yes, yes, yeah. I'm Brittanny: She over here trying to get freebies. Paola: I know. Leslie: just saying, I need it. Paola: I thought we were gonna start with like, Brittanny: Hey, the doctor's in the house. Dr. Radhika Achari: Here for it. Paola: talk about the definitions and the term she's like, No, analyze me. Give me help me, Doctor. Leslie: No, please. Brittanny: Mm mm. She said we Leslie: Yeah, I Brittanny: only got fifty minutes. I gotta get it all in. Leslie: doubt. Dr. Radhika Achari: Perfect. So it's interesting because I take the same approach we would do to like early learners, right? So like if it it's the executive functioning of like initiation, right? Sometimes things are like if you're looking at a blank piece of paper, you're having to write an essay, that blank piece of paper just kills you. Like you don't Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: know where to start. and Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: so I the way that I would start is almost like kind of doing like a task analysis, like Breaking down this like big goal and figuring out your why. and so for adapting you principles of act, then I use like an act matrix and kind of figuring out like where your values are with your actions, what's moving you like closer to your act to your goal goal, which of your actions are moving you further away from it. So that kind of gives you an idea of like, are you willing to put your time and energy? towards your goal and like moving in that direction, right? Or is this maybe not the most important goal right now, right? Is there something else that aligns with your current actions? So I kind of always start with like figuring out your why. I lean into like a lot of like Simon Senex with like figuring out that why. And I Paola: Mm mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: believe that it truly is something that like you see you can like trace back to your childhood in the sense of like what are you advocating for? What is like your your like personal identity, like where is that coming through? And for me, I think leaning into that identity helps prevent all of this like imposter syndrome. because I Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: think that gets to be, and it's huge with women and leadership and especially see sweet roles. And that was like kind of part of my research was looking at the crisis leadership. And so what was the actual like predictor to being an effective crisis leader? And out of the four domains of psychological empowerment, the only one that was an effective predictor was competence. So actually, it wasn't it wasn't like your values or how you present yourself. It wasn't kind of like all of these other external things, but it really was knowing your stuff. So sometimes Leslie: Yes. Dr. Radhika Achari: the right and and when when you say it out loud, it like it clicks, it makes sense across Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: the board. And for me what for starting my business with analyze and act, the tool that kind of helped me get through that initiation was actually using AI tools because it was something that I could like bounce ideas off of without having Leslie: Mmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: such a big like like where I wasn't like looking stupid essentially, right? Or like trying Paola: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: to present myself as, I want to do all of this, but do I actually can I do this? Should I do this? Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Right. And so I think that's kind of where that promotion and leadership it we don't have enough, I feel like it's psychological safety or like mentorship. I think all of that is is rare to have all of that Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: in one place, to be able to feel empowered, to be able Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: to take on more of that those leadership roles or to like pursue what you're wanting to do, whether it's entrepreneur or entrepreneur. So within an organization or outside an organization. So my kind of first thing I'd always recommend is like just building in like low stake chances. and so whether that's like reaching out to like for that mentorship to figure out like, okay, can I have this conversation? Do I feel comfortable having this conversation, talking about it? I'm not a great social person like in social, like that's like really daunting for me. So at like the last conference I was at, it was like, okay, every session, like I need to like talk and go like meet somebody because I you never know what those connections are gonna be. Paola: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: so kind of putting in my own goals there, it was like per session, Paola: Mm-mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: making an making that connection with somebody and a very like very like a very personal relationship. So not just like, like where do you work, what population, you know, type of things, but like, okay, what's bringing you to like this talk, right? Or like afterwards Leslie: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: getting lunch with people and figuring out, okay, what part spoke to you and like have Paola: Mm. Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: personal connection. so that that's kind of how I got my things started. but really building in, I think there's so much of a fail, like, and this is where I connect the like fixed mindset with a growth mindset is that when you have kind of more of that fixed mindset, what happens is just what happens, right? And so you're Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: looking at when you fail, that's a data point. Right. And so with fixed mindset, you're kind of just like, great, I did it, I messed up. And so it's hard to then have this loop and growth mindset instead is a feedback loop where you're like, okay, you're not expecting it to just be a linear path. You're looking at asking these questions. So what do I not know? is something that you know, you you don't know what you don't know is something Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: that I grew up being be being said a lot around me. And so that helps kind of figure out, okay, there are all these other things around me. Let me like explore. You know, there's no, there's no high stakes with exploring. You're just trying to figure it out, listening things that maybe are not in your wheelhouse, but you find a pattern, you find a connection. And you figure out, right, that's where that authenticity comes in, is when you listen to something different and then you find that pattern. and then being able to being able to then figure out that next part of okay, let me attempt something, right? And my failure if I mess up, it's now a data point that like just goes back into that loop, right? Okay, what variables do I need to change? What okay, I could have done, you know, almost like creating your SMART goals. So figuring out something that's more measurable. Okay, I spent, you know, I looked into like two people for this conversation or for this type of collaboration. Next time I'm gonna like, you know, look into like five and like send like send five feelers out, right? So like creating these like Paola: Hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: small goals that are very realistic to where you are at this point, right? And so the idea is to really build that behavior momentum, but you do it through small wins. So you have to kind of take your long-term goal and figure out, okay, what can I like realistically just like one thing to cross off my list this week. And at the beginning Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: there is it's just it's so much research. So it's like figuring out what you don't know. Leslie: It is. Brittanny: So I got a question though, and Leslie, Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: I'm sorry, Grumpin, put you on the spot because we already talking about you. Can somebody Leslie: Yeah. yeah, go ahead. Brittanny: have both of those at the same time? A growth and a fix? And the reason I say that is because I feel like when it comes to herself, like you kept saying your, your, your for her Leslie: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: specifically, she has a fixed mindset for herself. But Leslie: yeah, for sure. Brittanny: when it comes to her family, her friends, her boys, she has a growth mindset because what she Leslie: I know. Brittanny: doesn't know, she figures out in order to then help them. Leslie: help them, Brittanny: advance or Leslie: yeah. Brittanny: grow. So how does she get out of that? Because also like you you mentioned your kids are three and five. Paula's kids are like three and zero. You know what I mean? Paola: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: And Leslie's at the end where her boys are about both about to be grown. So now she's supposed to be like trying to find that new identity. But I still think there's now she's straddling it because sh I'm I'm I'm worried she's gonna ditch us and follow the boys wherever they go and then gonna see her again. Paola: And then they're gonna Leslie: And I really don't. Paola: say, Mom, leave us alone and then she's gonna be depressed. Brittanny: Exactly. Leslie: And I'ma be like, depressed, yeah. Brittanny: Exactly. Leslie: And I really, was gonna say it too, that like, you spoke about identity in the beginning and figuring out what that was. And like, honestly, like if I'm being super honest with myself, I don't know what my identity is and I don't know how to figure it out. Like, if I would sit down and be like, what is my identity? Like, what is my why? Like, Brittanny: She's Major's mom. Leslie: I don't even know how to figure that out. And my mom was not a good mom, so that has been my identity most of my life, was to be better than my mom. and not have my kids grow up how my mom did, which I achieved that. But now I'm like, I don't know. I don't know who I am. Like, I don't know what I really want. Like, if Paola suggests stuff to me, I will be like, my God, that's a great idea. And then when I deep dive into it, I'm like, my gosh, like, this is so much. Like, do I really want to do this? Or like, I don't know. And then like, and then on the other end, I'm like, I do like to help people, like, you know, but how do I want to do it? Like, I have worked in the ABA field for a long time, but. I'm like, okay, is this what I wanna do? Do I wanna be change management? Do I wanna be marketing because I'm doing this? And it's just, I feel kinda like I'm getting pulled in all these different ways. And I'm like, I wanna do something that's effective in helping the team, but I'm not sure where I'm best to be doing that at. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. And I and I see this being a big difference for between like Business companies and like clinical work, whereas clinical, we're taught that okay, you need to have your credentials and prove that you can do this skill set, and then you get the role, right? Like it's very much Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: like you need to be performing everything, have everything, have all the hours, pass the exam, and then then you're like promoted. Whereas in business, and like my husband's with indeed, and so he was, you know, we were kind of sharing like performance evaluation. and the strategies now that he's in a leadership role. And so he was talking about, well, I'm gonna like, you know, promote these people. And I was like, what, what, what do you mean by that? And he was like, well, like the quarter before, I basically have them already be doing that job to be like it's not there's not a there's no waiting, right? They're doing Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: the job. And then it's it it's it's it's then that promotion is like, well, I've already been doing it, I'm doing a good job. So it's a little bit. different, I think, the business and clinical. And so I think in general, this clinical clinical fields, you have more of this imposter syndrome in the sense where it's very like siloed what you're doing. You don't have a lot of that like lateral movement to help explore your other interest. Is that kind of like what you're feeling with the Paola: When I also think with Leslie, since I know her well, I, you know, even as she was talking, I feel like we can dive into like the behaviors of a fixed mindset versus a Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Paola: growth mindset, right? But I think you brought up Simon Sinek and the why questions, which I do think it's a great book that she should read. But I I wonder if we need to have like a therapist on the episode because I think it's very vulnerable, like when you really actually answer the why. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm. Paola: It's a very vulnerable thing to do. You know, like if you're answering why and why and why, and then you you get to like that mushy gushy stuff in the middle, you don't want to get there. Leslie: Mm-hmm. Paola: And so I I think like maybe that's where we're coming to with the point with Leslie. It's like we have been talking about atomic habits. We we read the book, we talked about all Leslie: Yeah. Paola: these things this Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Paola: year, earlier this year, a couple months ago. But I think that the the It's like an onion or something. And now it's like, okay, Leslie, do you actually Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Paola: want to get in there and answer the vulnerable question of like, what is your why? And maybe the vulnerable thing is like, my why has always been other people. And so if the other people are gone, I'm going to be left alone. That's very vulnerable. So I'm just going to keep pouring into other people. Right. And Leslie: Yeah. Paola: it's more reinforcing to continue to pour into other people. Heck, the boys might leave and she'll pour into me, which I'm going to love, but I don't love that for her. And I tell her that, Leslie: Right. Paola: right? Because if she pours into me, I think that that's her continuing that thing and then not being vulnerable. Leslie: cycle yeah. Paola: 'cause she just pours into people and Britney and I are trying to get her to pour into herself. But Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Paola: that's where I'm like, we need it then I need to call my an a therapist and be like, let's do a psychoanalyze Leslie Leslie: Yeah. Paola: episode because I think that that's Simon's point, right? In the get down to your why. Like you really have to get to the deep down why reason that motivates you and is gonna keep pushing you. we did talk about how to get promoted at work, and we it's funny because we did literally say, like, when you're already doing the job, it makes sense you're gonna get tapped to get promoted. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: I love that indeed. That's also how they're doing it. Cause I'm like, okay, good. Brittanny: Night. Paola: We said the right thing a couple of weeks ago. And then, you know, we talked about having emotional intelligence and we talked about having a growth mindset. And that's where I was like, okay, r Radika's coming. She's gonna teach us how to have a growth mindset, which I think it's kind of a value of mine. And so back to the identity and the why. Like when you said that a graph, you know, with our clients, and I think Leslie can picture a graph like they tantrummed and it decreased, but it always kept going up and it went up or it went down in this pattern, right? Like the tantrums just didn't drastically go down. It they went from 10 to nine to eight to ten to six to seven to four. You know, it always is going down that to me, that visual I totally understand. So I understand you saying for me, when I try something and it doesn't work, that's a data point of learning. I'm like, that didn't work. Try it this way next time. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm. Paola: But I do think maybe it's a mentalistic behavior, right? Like a self-talk behavior that you have that when you get that data point of I tried it and it didn't work, it's this proves I suck. This proves I'm terrible. This proves I can't do it. So I think like from a behavior analytic perspective, I wonder how would you would define a growth mindset as a set of behaviors that you can learn and that you can master and that get reinforced. And so because they get reinforced, then you continue to always do those behaviors. I mean, we're older, so maybe we're always gonna kind of fall off the wagon and and Leslie will go back to a fixed mindset, but then you keep working on it. Dr. Radhika Achari: And that's and the thing is that that's okay, right? The goal is not perfection. And I think that's what's Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: different from a growth mindset to a fixed, is that fixed, you're like chasing a goal, right? You're trying to like almost like achieve that a hundred percent. A hundred percent is not it's not humanly possible, right? Human Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: nature is to have imperfections. There are gonna be things that we don't know. And so would say that like I like assessments a lot. And so like kind of figuring out like where this data you get from like decision making as like a failure, or from like points of failure, would be close to like looking at like a performance diagnostic checklist, right? So they have the human services one, they have the one with parents as well. And it's like figuring out, okay, where like what do almost like I not know about? And so figuring out where that philosophical doubt is, where your like either like your skills are lacking. Like you had talked about, you know, like marketing and figuring out kind of how to do things differently. And I think OBM is really interesting because it allows you all of that movement. You can gain these other skills. There's not a like the it's not a fixed box, right? And so Leslie: Mmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: that's where I see a lot of like growth mindset and OBM really overlapping is that it's allows you to expand. and so the little the one like small behavior that I practice and I do it even with my kids as they're young is that like when you catch yourself making like like a negative statement, right? Like I can't do this, replacing it, or just adding in the word yet, right? I can't do this yet. It Leslie: you Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: small little change, but it really does change the way that your brain thinks about it. To be like, okay, well, I can't do this yet. what's my next step to be able to do this? Right. Leslie: of like a replacement behavior, right? Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Exactly. Right. So you're trying Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: to replace that. You're trying to really build your skills. And I will say that finding Brittanny: Okay. Dr. Radhika Achari: my why I had to be extremely vulnerable. And I love Brene Brown. I'd recommend her. Not as I mean, it it'd be interesting to have that her be part of this conversation as well. Right? I wish. Paola: Super interesting. Do you have her number? I love how you Leslie: Right. I know, right? Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Paola: said it. You're like, it'd be we should call her up right now. That would be super interesting. Brittanny: I know. Dr. Radhika Achari: Hey. Exactly. We were in Austin and I was like, we should find a way to do this, like VMF. But it's Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Right, right. Paola: There we go. Dr. Radhika Achari: it's difficult primarily because our identity is so tied in as mothers to our family, right? We're the glue, not just on the cognitive load aspect, but really on the emotional standpoint, right? We are constantly Leslie: So true. Dr. Radhika Achari: teaching and we're not just teaching for what they need to do right now. We're teaching for the rest of their life, right? Leslie: the future. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Every single aspect. We want to see what we're teaching right now. We're trying to ensure, okay, what other environmental changes are going to go on? How is this going to be generalized? Can they do this in all situations? And so that's very encompassing of the mental load. And I think sometimes that I've seen it with friends and family is your identity Like almost like past like middle school to high school, it is very fixed because you've been in that role for such a long period of time. And so Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: the idea that this transition is happening, it is somebody, it's an external force, but it's now having like having to cause you like an internal like transition as well. So how does your identity evolve? and I think that's you know, the evolu the evolving of your identity with your tools, how you're pouring your time, what's filling you back up, all of that goes with growth mindset. And so I know Brittany, you had asked like way earlier about can you be fixed and growth mindset? And I think you have multiple identities. So in your different roles, right, you can be fixed in one, growth in the other, right? And kind of almost like be switching because that's w we're able like we're not like a silo, right? We're multitasking. I think that's just Leslie: Right. Paola: Mm-hmm. And you get reinforced for different things in different environments, right? Like some Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Paola: family members. and I think because some of the research I've done on mindset and has to do with also like the I like this idea of the lies that your parents tell you. Because Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Paola: sometimes parents tell you that you're amazing and really smart, and that's also a lie, right? Or parents tell you, like, no, you can't do that, or you don't pay attention, or you don't sit up straight. And So I think the lies your parents tell you, it always stuck with me when I learned it that way, because then you grow up to be really confident or not, right? Because you're like, Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: my parent told me I could rule the world, and then Leslie: right. Paola: the neighbor gets told that they can't. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: right. So some of that I think too comes from your upbringing and your that's why I'm saying like in one environment, let's say maybe your family member was your best cheerleader, and so you feel very comfortable with them and confident in your doing things. but maybe at work you've had bad work environments or vice versa, right? Your work Dr. Radhika Achari: Okay. Paola: really reinforces you. School you're getting straight A's, you're doing really great, but then your family's the one that's always saying, like, why are you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? Why aren't you like us? Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Paola: So I totally agree with you as you're saying that. Like, yeah, you could be different in different environments because different environments have a different reinforcement history. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. And I'll say that did IVF through COVID and like when my son was born, it's like one of the first times like lift the like visitor policies. So kind of my pregnancy, motherhood was all kind of warped into these like elimination of all type of like in person social interactions. Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: which was really difficult. And so having to like find a community, right? We're talking about like growth mindset as like a learned reinforced behavior. And to me that like almost like relies on a community, right? You're having that exchange, you're having that back and forth, different opinions, different ideas, and being able to value differences instead of similarities. and so what was kind of I learned from like other NICU nurses and leaders in the field that like when you like becoming a mother, like Almost like figuring out your why now. Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: because it can get so worked, right? And so I my mom was a stay at home mom because my dad was a cardi is a cardiologist. And so she was there for everything, right? This was like Leslie: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: her full identity and she I mean I I don't have many complaints about my childhood because it was just so supportive and so there for everything. And I wanted to be able to carry that on with my children. And it was challenging having a career and doing this. And so I feel like even now, as I choose different things, it's like every two, three months, you almost have to like do another check in and like, okay, is my why still my why? Right. Being able to Paola: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: really align, I would say, the three things I talked About with my clients, and personally is like the way that you talk about yourself to other people, so like your behavior outwards, your actions, and then the way that you think about yourself in your head. So, kind of talking more about that mentalistic, it has to all align, and that's where your like true identity, I would say, like comes through, and being able to almost kind of get like that gut feeling on like okay, this is what is happening. and for me figuring out analyze and act, I'm the oldest of four, one of the older cousins. I love kids, I'm great with kids, and so earlier dimension like, Yes, this is a good fit. I can you know kind of teach and work through all these skills. but moving away from early intervention and now doing teens, I used and I'm using analyze and act as my way to show my value on problem solving, right? there's the there was was like the the icebreaker was like okay if you were like stranded on a desert island like who would you like who would you want with you right Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: and I'd have a cousin member like pick me and I was like why they're like you'll figure out a way off like you'll figure out I Paola: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: was like it's a lot of faith Leslie: Right? Paola: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: But I I do like I think what's most interesting to me about other things is the problem solving and kind of tying it all the way back to like my grandfather. It is like being able to figure out asking a question, and being able to see what do I not know? and I know I keep coming back to that. Paola: Mm-hmm. But I think that's a such a behavior of a growth mindset is the Leslie: Yeah, it is. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Paola: more you know, the more you don't know and the more you're learning and growing and Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Leslie: Yeah. Brittanny: Yeah. Paola: changing, right? And people that have a fixed mindset, I think don't think that way. I think that that's like a very telling, even in a sentence I would be able to be like, that person is showing me a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. Right, as I Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Paola: supervise people, sometimes the things that they say, I'm like, Okay, I need to get them more in the middle 'cause all the things they're s saying are more of a fixed mindset. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Yeah, Brittanny: sorry, go ahead. No, yeah. Leslie: yeah, because I was gonna say a fixed mindset wouldn't say, do I not know? It would say, I don't know it. And just leave it at that, because I've said that before. Dr. Radhika Achari: Exactly. And you just need to add that Paola: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: yet in there. I just don't know Paola: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: it yet. Leslie: Yes, I've said that before. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Leslie: I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do it. Exactly. Paola: And I'm like, I don't either, but I'm gonna look it up and and she's like, but I Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah. Paola: don't know. And I'm like, I'm going to Google this Brittanny: Yeah. And she'll be like, But I do have time, but I don't have time. You know what I mean? Paola: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: That's Leslie. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: And you know Leslie: Right? Dr. Radhika Achari: what? You know what that reminds me of is that it's almost like your response cost for things that you don't understand is so high, where the Paola: Yes. Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: effort that you feel like you need to put in is just insurmountable. So being able Leslie: Yeah. Yeah. Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: to like figuring out like small problems almost that you like your s the response cost is not that high for you. The way I when I and when I was doing the Medicaid class waiver, 90% of my clients were guys in their twenties. and so I was like, okay. I gotta really dial into this Leslie: Hahaha! Paola: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: to figure out. And then I saw like a younger girl talking about them. Like they just like were not they had a lot of interesting things to tell me. Leslie: Receptive, yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: And we covered dating. There was just like a lot of things. And I was like, wow, these are Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: I see why things are going the way they're going. Paola: Yeah. Leslie: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: And so for me, I had to do two things. One, find an operational definition for an expert. Because they'd be like, well, like this person said, and like they're an expert. And they were like a uter anybody. Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: and I was like, okay, so we're gonna define an you can be an expert in your experiences right the things and all the environmental kind of situational things you are an expert in your experiences but a true expert understands everybody's perspective and understands Leslie: you Dr. Radhika Achari: like a very global understanding they put everything together and Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: they're now like analyzing it all in one thing to give you that information Brittanny: No pain. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: So that that helped. That was that was how I had to Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: operationally define that. so Paola: We do that a lot with our clients, right? We're just like, Let me tell you the real definition of that. Brittanny: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: And then the other thing I had to do was setting up these like very low cost situations where they had to be able to start to flex that growth mindset muscle because it really is a muscle. It's a it's a learned and a reinforced behavior. And so I would what I came up with at that time was would you rather? And we kind Leslie: you Dr. Radhika Achari: of added a reflexive component as well. So I'd be, you know, we started off with just super silly things. would you rather swim in a you know a pool of jello or like, you know, in a bathtub of spaghetti. Just random stuff kind of looking at sensory. and then we it Allowed me to start, and I would always like pick the opposite thing and like almost have Leslie: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: them like justify why they said that, right? So that and then I would explain mine and be like, well, I would do this actually, because this is how I'm thinking of it. So I started to kind of do a lot of this work on like perspective taking. And I think that was the foundational skill for growth mindset. because Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: you see it from a different angle, and that angle may not be the way to. you think about it it's not right it's not wrong it's just different and so that really gave me a lot of room to work with on very like as a good icebreaker but sometimes my clients would just stay with that that what if and we got into things like culturally I had one client that like started off I would be like you know would you rather we were talking about like different different ethnic food and being able to kind of eat one food for the rest your life right And so we were talking about versatility of like different dishes within each culture. and I love sushi. And so I was talking about, I was like, well, sushi, like, there's no, you know, there's so many ways that you can do it and so many different presentations and flavors. And so that would be my choice. And he was like, I don't want to be stuck with like, I don't, I can't eat chop, I can't use chopsticks. Like, I can only use like a foot fork and spoon. And he like went off in this whole tangent. And I was like, What if we use like, you know, I kind of brought in like a s adaptive assistive technology. I was like, what if you use like the the chopsticks were like tied together and then it wasn't that difficult for you? And he was like, So kind of like a tweezer? And I was like, Yeah, kinda like a tweezer. Paola: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: That works. He was like, That that that's not that difficult. I'm sure I could. And I said, And you don't need to do like a grain of rice at a time. Like you could Leslie: Right. Brittanny: Yeah. Paola: Ha ha ha. Dr. Radhika Achari: you could do, you know, like a big chunk of chicken. And he was like Yeah, yeah, you know, you tell me that's like kind of like what a forg is, right? So he's like making this like revelation as we're having our conversation. And and that's kind of the beauty of it, right? Is that like almost like realizing potential, but all through like perspective taking. So my Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: favorite activity right now is really that would you rather do it as young as my dream. Brittanny: like that. I think I would rather choose the jello than the spaghetti. So there's that. I'm just saying. Yeah, just you know, for anybody out there, spaghetti Leslie: Hahaha! Dr. Radhika Achari: I'm right there with you. Yeah. Paola: If you are wondering Leslie: Right. Brittanny: just it already when you said it, I was like, no. Dr. Radhika Achari: Ha ha Paola: 'Cause you have Brittanny: But Paola: GERD, you're Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Paola: gonna get acid Leslie: Right. Paola: reflux. Dr. Radhika Achari: Ha ha ha Leslie: Right. Jesus. Brittanny: Yes, but also like it's a bunch of noodles that are just as you're moving around, they're moving with you. So then you're like, What's touching me? You know, the jellos just I could see. So that's Paola: Okay. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Brittanny: all I'm saying. but no, like back to work, right? I Paola: Ha ha. Brittanny: did have a question though. So you were talking about like your the game you'd like to do, which I think that's fabulous. I like, would you rather? in all sorts of ways. But if you Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: were consulting for a behavioral health organization that wanted to create that growth mindset or like for the culture. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: What are the first like couple of things that you would look at to help them get there? Dr. Radhika Achari: So to build that growth mindset within the workplace, I would say kind of the personal advice I given is that are there opportunities for this like very low stake chance of failure, Brittanny: Okay. Dr. Radhika Achari: right? Like where are you allowing Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: people to be creative, to kind of push the boundaries, not just in the responsibilities? Can they start something, right? And it doesn't matter whether it succeeds or fails, is it's more you want to promote that the skill of like initiation and you're being proactive you're not being reactive about this the the workplace basically culture So I think that would be the first one. I think the second one is going to be there's not always that psychological safety You can't explore without feeling safe. Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: that's in a lot of parenting literature is talking about, you know, the kids that either like very dramatic or like, you know, they've got a lot of stories or they, you know, feel like they can do whatever. It's comes from them being so comfortable and they feel like they don't have to worry about all these other aspects of their life that they can really kind of go to town for everything else. And so Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: that to me translates into the workplace as well. So second part would be to look at is there actual a psychological safety, not just with like praise, but when things are when negatives are like being Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: disclosed, right? And is it immediate or is there a time delay? Because that psychological safety needs to be immediately afterwards. It can't be like, okay, let me think about it. Because that that turns people off as well, Paola: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: right? That you're like, never mind, I'm gonna I'm gonna retreat back. Like I'm gonna go back over here. We're not gonna have this conversation. Leslie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: and so the leader and the workplace needs to be inviting to like curious and like creative conversation and being able to value that with their time. and I would say the third thing I would look at for workplace would be almost like tying recognition to attempts at improvement. So not just outcomes and, you know, this we're only gonna these these are all the things that people have done that have worked. But there's a lesson from things that have not worked as well. And they shouldn't, failure is not negative, right? So kind of Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: breaking that loop, showing that it is a data point for learning. And this is okay, well, this didn't work because of this. And now we know that. Let's try it different, right? We're gonna change different variable here. Maybe we need to do it this way, right? So just being able to like have that conversation when they're reviewing things and when they're giving feedback. I would say those would be my three main things I would look to like build a foundation of within that workplace. Brittanny: Okay. I like those. I personally feel like I do all those things. Paola: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: it's just I'm I'm working on I feel like some of my staff feel too safe, if I'm being honest. Leslie: Ha ha Dr. Radhika Achari: Yep. Brittanny: and not because of me, just because the cup they've been at the company for many, many years. And so it's one of those things now where it's like I think you feel a little too safe to now do or say what you want. And I still want Leslie: Mm-hmm. Brittanny: you to be safe, but also I need you to now do like those first two parts. I feel like they got the the safe one in the bag. But now I need you to be Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: Well, but they feel safe to be stuck in their mindset. Like they feel Brittanny: Yeah. Paola: safe to just be like, this is how I do things and and not innovate and not think which is not psychological safety, but but yes, they do feel very Brittanny: That yeah. Leslie: Mm. Not grow. Yeah. Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: You know, I look at different kinds of Paola: comfortable in what they're comfortable in, which I would argue is very fixed. Brittanny: Yeah. one hundred percent. Dr. Radhika Achari: Agree. And I would say there's some companies I remember doing when I was doing research looking at what programs they have to encourage creativity, right? So whether it's like okay, it can be as small as a suggestion box and then actually reviewing it. Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: am having Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: that feedback because I think Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: there needs to be both parts of that. It can't just be something that's there. Brittanny: Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: It needs to be something that's reinforced and that feedback Paola: Mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: is given. so as small as that to being able, you know, all these tech companies, they have that startup culture. Right. So and that's where kind of entrepreneurship comes is that you being able to like so whether it's like a like a book club or like a journal review or a study group, right? Being able to almost take what your skills are outside of your set responsibilities and now expand that within your current Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: job. Right. and so I think you need encouragement, if not like a some like a like a quarterly type of like plan to really Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: build that in because once then it you know, you've talked about atomic habits and once it becomes something that's like regular, right, it doesn't have as much response cost. It's something now that everybody's looking for to participate and it's something now that's become part of their culture. Paola: Yeah. I love that you said that because I do think a lot of organizations say that they value a growth mindset, but their systems accidentally punish mistakes or they just discourage innovation. And that's why I said that, you know, related to what Brittany said. It's like, no, I think that they feel very safe and comfortable being in this is how I've always done it. And I don't want to innovate. Like, don't Leslie: Yeah. Paola: want to evolve with, you know, there's been a lot of Medicare changes, there's changes with Dr. Radhika Achari: I think Paola: AI and all these different things. And I'm like, I feel like evolve or die, right? Like that's like chapter one of the textbook for ABA. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yep. Absolutely. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: It's like if you're not evolving and if you're not changing, and obviously we evolve in a lifetime, right? So there's that whole thing like you must change within a day and Leslie: Yes. Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Paola: and evolve and that's what behaviorists believe. So I don't know if I don't think that I believe that could because I am a behaviorist. I think I believed that and that's why I became a behaviorist. because that theory just kind of spoke to me. But we are at the hour mark and I think that to wrap this episode up, which ended up becoming a Leslie episode. Cause she was she was like, we needed to Brittanny: Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. Leslie: Mario. Paola: talk about a growth mindset. So let's apply it to to us, right? I think Brittanny: Yeah. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: what is like one small behavior that that we can all practice, Leslie, this week. Leslie: Yes. Me, Brittanny: Ha ha ha. Leslie: me. Dr. Radhika Achari: So I'll I kinda talked about one where it's like adding in that yet. Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: I think the other the other thing like I would look at, like being able to do it within a week, is like where do you have like some I would say almost like a space to learn something new to or to learn something or try something, right? It could that Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: trying is what goes into that growth mindset. So whether it's cooking a new dish, it's walking like a new path, right? Your brain is gonna re reward different instead of staying, Paola: Mm, mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: right? You're not gonna something that takes you out of being on autopilot, driving a Leslie: Right. Dr. Radhika Achari: different route home, noticing what's around. that's a that's a new coffee shop. Maybe I should go there So figuring out on a weekly basis like one thing that you can change. Some people do it with like hob at hobbies, trying restaurants, right? You figure out what motivates you and just start to like add more change because when you have that change in your environment, it causes you to have some change in your thinking as well. And Paola: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: goal would be to end up with growth mindset. Mm-hmm. Leslie: Yes, absolutely. Okay. One thing a week. Got that. Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm. Paola: caps? Leslie: I did. I'm writing it down. No, I got I got like two pages of notes over here. Okay, y'all wanna see my notes? Two Dr. Radhika Achari: And you know what? I And the thing Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: that you try, Leslie: pages. Dr. Radhika Achari: you could almost pair it with doing like a permanent product. So writing down what you did try. So Paola: Mm mm. Dr. Radhika Achari: you see all the things like journaling. Exactly. Leslie: like journaling in it. Journaling. Yeah. Paola: And then you're like, look, I tried fifty two new things and 'cause there's fifty two weeks in a year, right? I like that. There's you go, there's your data. Leslie: Yeah. Yep. Dr. Radhika Achari: Exactly. Right. Brittanny: But don't let that stop you. You can start now and end on this year. Don't don't think you gotta wait. Don't think you gotta wait. Leslie: I am. Mm hmm. I know, 'cause I will. Paola: no. Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. You can always change your frequency. Leslie: I'll be like, I'll start that January Brittanny: Yeah, nope. Started today. Started today. Every Wednesday. Leslie: first, the first week of January. New Year's resolution. Yeah, Dr. Radhika Achari: No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Leslie: I would. That's what I would do Paola: We know each other Leslie: to myself. We do SMS. Paola: too well already. Brittany's already Brittany already knows what you're gonna do. Brittanny: Yeah, yeah. Well Leslie Leslie: Yeah. Brittanny: writes everything down, so I know that her writing it down is not not gonna help. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Radhika Achari: Like as woman. Leslie: No, it doesn't mean nothing because I gotta come back and look at it. Yeah. Paola: But it does mean everything. We're gonna follow Radica's advice, okay? Leslie: We are. I'm gonna follow through. I have to. Growth mindset. Dr. Radhika Achari: You could take a picture of it instead of writing it. So changing that up. Exactly. There you go. Group continuity. Brittanny: Yep, so you can have an accountability partner. Send it to Paola. Leslie: Yeah. Paola: Well, we already are that's why we we actually and we've actually done Leslie: This girl. I'm sending it in the group chat. Brittanny: I don't wanna. I don't wanna. Paola: like we started in January, you know, with our goals and stuff. We actually did this what two weeks ago or something where we were a little bit behind, Brittanny: Mm-hmm. Paola: but we did we're like, okay, let's do a quarter one check in, a quarter two accountability check, quarter three, like because I think we all have different things that we say we're gonna do. And like you said, all of a sudden, it's three years later and you did nothing. So I you Leslie: Yeah. Paola: literally said you should check in. Every three months, which we Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm. Paola: didn't talk about at the time that you said it, but I'm like, good, that's what we've been doing, and that's what we've been doing in the podcast with the 12-week year with atomic habits. Like we are looking at, yeah, it's three months and I haven't lost any weight, right? And but I said I was gonna lose weight, but it didn't happen. But but anyway, on that note Brittanny: I'm doing great. So Dr. Radhika Achari: Mm-hmm. Leslie: Yeah. You are, you are. Paola: thank you so much for joining us today. can you tell our listeners where to find you and where to continue to learn from you? You do a great work on analyze and act, and we didn't even talk about the course that you have and all your stuff. So tell us yes, you're Dr. Radhika Achari: Yeah. Brittanny: Infinite knowledge. Paola: tell us all about your infinite knowledge Leslie: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: Absolutely. So my website is analyze and act.com. I've started a blog there kind of going through it. I've just launched this course called Bridge to College Independence. So it's an eight-week course. and there's two what makes it different is that there's two simultaneous tracks. So one for the parents or the whomever the kind of caregivers are in the child's life, and then the other side is for the the teens. The nerd right now is neurodiversity. Teens, my goal is to expand this out and include neurotypical as well. so for the parents, the goal over these eight weeks is to actually transfer the cognitive load and the independence the cognitive load and responsibility from them fade them fading out and then building in those independent skills, executive function, social communication, day living, and all these things, building up the skills then for the teens, right? So we have going in two Different joys and just started my first the My Founding cohort. The I opened it as of end of June, so June 29th, and it's halfway full right now. So we're looking, I'm looking to add in a couple more families. What I have found while doing this is that maybe the teen is not ready or the parents not ready. We don't people are not always on the same page. The other thing that I offer is also one on one. It's kind of more similar to like executive functioning coaching. Coaching because it's really focused on what their goals are at this time, and so I do that one-on-one with the teen, and then also one-on-one with the parents as well. And my been putting out a lot of kind of things between professionally, working on this college readiness, and then also tying it into like my daily life, and so what that looks like: taking these skills of assistive technology or even just growth mindset, and then how I'm doing this now with my three. And five year old because it is the same skill, but it's a very Paola: Mm-hmm. Dr. Radhika Achari: different way of doing it, but you still can do all of these things at any age. So you're never behind. You just kind of need to figure out where your starting point is. Brittanny: like that. thank you so much for joining us and thanks everyone for listening. If you like what you heard today, please click the share button right now and share it with a friend you know needs to hear this episode or any parents who are trying to get their kids to college and give away that load. Leslie: Absolutely. And follow us on Instagram at everydayaba.3 to stay in touch with us between episodes. Paola: Thanks for joining us today and as always remember to use ABA every day. Brittanny: Every Leslie: Every Brittanny: day. Leslie: day.