Chris Sund: Hi, welcome everybody to the Amplify Speakers Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Sund, and today I'm very blessed to have Jay Kiew with me. For those that aren't aware of Jay yet, you will want to be as soon as it's done. Jay is one of the most sought-of keynote speakers the world. He's the author ⁓ Change Fluency. which is nine principles to navigate uncertainty and drive innovation. He's worked with some of the largest companies in the world. And some people would even probably call Jay a serial entrepreneur. I'm getting ready to dive into this, but I think we're gonna talk everything from innovation to change, AI, people and everything in between. So really lucky to have Jay here today.

JQ: Chris, what's going on? Thankful, thankful to be here.

Chris Sund: Yeah, absolutely. So I'd love to start off and just kind of go a little bit background. You have done so much amazing things in your career and I think people, it's helpful to see that line, that story of like all those different things you have accomplished and done.

JQ: Mmm. Yeah, a little bit of background. ⁓ was born in Singapore, out of all places, a little micro island just south of Malaysia. And back in the 80s, you my aunt's babysitting me and she, you know, she's like, ⁓ Jay's a pretty cute baby. So she started taking pictures, you know, with one of those old school flash cameras, flash, flash, flash. And, you know, as she gets these photos developed, my family notices something strange. ⁓ In every single photo where flash was used, there's a little red dot on top of my left eye. It's cancer. Seven tumors. My ophthalmologist rushes in to operate. Before I turned one year old, I was left half blind, a cancer survivor with a prosthetic glass eye. And by the way, I don't share this for pity ⁓ at all, but I actually share this because, you know, at what age... Do we experience our first disruption? Change has been a constant, you know, in my life, much as I imagine it has been in yours. And that's been a through line for me. Change. As you're like, yeah, me too. And it's so fascinating. loved, I actually, I'm weird. I love change so much. I actually decided to make a career out of it. I helped organizations navigate change by expanding.

Chris Sund: Wow.

JQ: cross border, so moving from the states into different countries like Canada and Australia and China ⁓ for a little bit, ended up asking how do people make those decisions in the first place? So became a consultant with Deloitte where I helped drive a lot of organization transformation there and then ended up in a pretty similar field to you. So I was in healthcare on the digital health strategy side of things. And so we were driving impact and change on that side. before eventually jumping into entrepreneurship or stumbling into entrepreneurship and for the past six years have been scaling a few companies for funsies.

Chris Sund: Yeah, I love that. Man, there's a lot I kind of want to dive back. But first, think explaining maybe a little bit of, you know, right now, those those companies that you're working on building. Tell us a little bit

JQ: Oh yeah. So one is the Change Fluency Co. rocking the vest right now. We we're helping organizations apply innovation, which is actually like the biggest challenge all organizations have in 2025 and 2026. Right. There's all this AI stuff and yet the stats are astounding. 95 % of orgs are failing to realize ROI. 74 % of orgs are failing to scale value. McKinsey just released another report. They're all the same, right? They're all along the same theme that we have the latest technology. We haven't been able to capture the value in it.

Chris Sund: Yeah.

JQ: Which leads us to this notion that like we actually don't have a technology problem because we have the latest technology at our fingertips. We actually have a change problem. But what if we reframe that? What if we reframe that to a change opportunity? So that's what the CFC, the Change Fluency Co does.

Chris Sund: Yeah, what a great, ⁓ great need to say the least in that space. you know, I was actually talking to somebody today about this. You know, I just ⁓ was at a conference last week and we have an AI company and I'm very proud that I get to represent and there's probably 90 vendors. And I'd say the majority of the ones that were in the strategic innovation lab or that were there. have some latest and greatest technology. He said, well, the scary status, you know, probably nine out 10 of these companies in three to five years won't be around. The failure rate for AI technologies is way worse than any restaurant investment. And I don't know, last time people were like, throw your money into restaurants. It's the best thing you should be throwing your money into. I'm not saying don't, but...

JQ: Hmm.

Chris Sund: Everyone's going, we should be doing this and bringing this in, but you start looking at it, it really doesn't make any financial sense from the statistics.

JQ: Yep. Yep. And so how do we call BS on it? How do we say, don't hire me to help you deploy AI? That feels like the wrong approach. Instead, why don't we just look at your processes? What's going on there before we even bring up AI in the first place?

Chris Sund: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I completely agree. Now, I'm curious to get your thoughts when you go look at it. How many times do you go, you know, it's maybe there's necessary for change to get more out of the technology or hey, this technology is great and what it's able to do is great. Now, is it solving a problem, enough of a problem that quantifies the lift it takes to bring it in or to use it or to buy it? Or are they just going, hey, I figured out a way I can make this do this. Was that really something people were asking for in the first place?

JQ: Right. There's a lot of hype right now. Chris, probably have seen that, Where a lot of executives are saying, let's buy all the co-pilot licenses and the anthropic licenses. Let's do it. Let's just give them what they need. then ⁓ six months later, nine months later, they're asking, well, wait a minute. So what'd you do? What was the time saved? What was the value that you created? And I think executives are so sharp nowadays that they're like, well, wait a minute. Let's start to rethink that this year in 2026. If we're making an investment, show me the outcome. Don't show me the money spent.

Chris Sund: Yeah, absolutely. I would hope that is what they're looking at.

JQ: Yeah, yeah, I was with I was with World Bank just a weeks ago and it's interesting. ⁓ AI is just like one of the changes this year. You know, we live in such a complex and uncertain world more so than ever before that I think the skill set that leaders are actually drawn towards is if change doesn't stop coming. How do I stop trying to manage it? Because we're grasping for control. And instead, how do we start to just sit in the changes and be totally comfortable and fluent and adaptive with it? so, yeah, that's why we're at Geek Out On. It's this notion of change fluency, change as a language. How do we learn to speak it better instead of trying to control it?

Chris Sund: I'm guessing you see this, but my experience is with change, you know, there's people that geek out over it and love it like you, but I would say that more often than not, people are really scared of change. don't even know if scared is right. They're comfortable doing things the way they are used to doing things. I think it might even be more of a comfort situation than anything. So when you go in,

JQ: Mm.

Chris Sund: What do you do to, got some people are comfortable and we're doing it this way, why are we gonna change it?

JQ: Yeah, yeah, you know what we found was in working with about 50,000 leaders is that our change mindset, like how we react to change, it actually boils down to just two things. Our change interpretation and our change response. Interpretation is do I see change as a threat or as an opportunity? Response is am I frozen and stuck or am I proactive and adaptive? I fall on like the two by two that you can kind of start seeing shape up. I'm either going to be like a defender where I'm like, well, you know, this change is hitting me, but I like how things are. I built this team. built this product. What do mean you're going to try to change it? I'm going to be an observer if I think that change might be a good thing, but I just want to wait and see. Right? Like, ⁓ let's see how AI plays out. Let's see how the tariffs play out. Let's see how the war plays out, you know? Maybe, maybe something good will come out of this. And then you have on the other side, people who like self-sabotage, who are proactively working against change because they see it as a threat. And then people who are change fluent, who are seeing change as an opportunity and being proactive about it. So those are, those are kind of like the four archetypes that we usually see. And the truth is, is that we ping pong across all four, depending on how we feel that day.

Chris Sund: Yeah, was going to be our next question. Do you see people move a path or go a little all over?

JQ: We all intuitively know how to be change, like when we're change fluent, right? Like, ⁓ there's a new thing that just came out. Maybe I'll go try it. That feels natural to us. ⁓ The challenge that we have is not only in identifying where we are in that moment, and yeah, people generally tend to defend or self-sabotage. The challenge and the invitation that most of us have as leaders is How do we reinforce or practice the habits that nudge us back into being change-fluent? So ⁓ during my keynote, usually we share about how it's like, how do we discover what's possible? How do we design the future? And then how do we differentiate from the standard?

Chris Sund: ⁓ Those are some great advice. You have, I wouldn't mind just hearing a little bit more. If you're going to dive into one of those that you think makes the biggest difference, what would it be?

JQ: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Combination. ⁓ think all three are important equally, you know, discover what's possible is this practice of strategic foresight, which futurists and strategists do all the time. But I actually think all of us should be doing that. When we're doom scrolling on Instagram, you're there at 10 p.m. at night, right? You just put the kids down. ⁓ You're like, ⁓ man, there's a lot of stuff on Insta. And then you spot something. You're like, ⁓ That's a cool AI use case. There is this moment where you immediately continue to swipe through or being changed fluent might be like, ⁓ well, wait a minute. Let me just send that to myself to hit my inbox because I'm scanning the market to discover what's possible. And let me try to like tomorrow when I'm at my desk, interpret what that means for me and my org today.

Chris Sund: Yes. So you've been ⁓ doing a lot yourself with AI and agentic AI. Do you care to share a little bit of like what you've been working on recently?

JQ: So let's discover what's possible. ⁓ my gosh, I haven't slept. I feel like I haven't slept in like the last three months because the evolution in the technology has just been so wild and rampant. It feels like a full-time job. But one of the biggest things is shifting from, imagine a pendulum where you have thought on one side and execution on the other. As employees, as team members, as workers. Most of us spend a lot of time on execution, right? You go through your inbox, you hop on calls, you do the thing. And I guess I'm just curious how much time we spend on the thinking and the reflection portion. So let's say it was like 90, 10. What we've been doing with AI agents is actually asking ourselves, how do we spend most of our time in the thought process and the reflection process? 90%. so that AI agents can take on more of the execution. Does that make sense?

Chris Sund: ⁓ Absolutely a desk.

JQ: And it hurts my brain every single day that I do it because it's so much fun. Like for marketing, for instance, we've been wrestling with how do we write quality thought pieces that don't show up like AI slob.

Chris Sund: Mm-hmm.

JQ: And if you do what everyone's doing and you ask Claude or chat gbt to copy XYZ, you're going to get the exact same output.

Chris Sund: Yes.

JQ: So one of the things that we've been playing around with is how do we actually just write stories? And the post is, that's it. It's just the story and then it cuts off maybe like a paragraph or two in and it's like, you want to keep reading? Come hop onto our website. And the website's not a pitch. It's the continuation of the story.

Chris Sund: That is smart.

JQ: And we've been taking, right? And so we've been taking a lot of iteration after iteration after iteration. We've now created a knowledge base that now an AI agent can review that as good. What great looks like from our point of view. And it starts to take ideas from us. Writes it, creates the subject line, creates the, you know, preview and the thumbnail, and then passes it back to us to review and iterate on that. It gets us 80 % of the way there and then we refine to the 100%. Thanks for letting me ramble about this, by the way. It's fun. It's having a marketer without a marketer.

Chris Sund: I think it's absolutely incredible. And I don't know, I mean, gosh, I hear it all the time. I think for my own personal self, man, I'd love to have an assistant. I'd love to have somebody that can help me do this. I know I want to do this or I could do this. How do I get it to do that? How do you take the time? Because just like anything, even if you hire somebody, you still have to train them, you gotta teach them, and it's a similar idea. How close can you get it if you show it? ⁓

JQ: Mm-hmm.

Chris Sund: You know, it's interesting because every from a writing perspective, now it's coding, but from a writing perspective, marketing perspective, AI was, was one really goes, Hey, this can, this could change the game. This could put some people worried. You know, you still think in some ways, yes, it will for those that are making.

JQ: Hmm.

Chris Sund: feature benefit type content. This is what this does. But the more that keeps getting put out in ABC and XYZ over and over again, and it's the same thing regurgitated. Now we're training people to make that many more blogs and that much more pieces and just output that much more every single day. I think it's going to be the stories, the authentic, the real. is gonna win more than it probably has the last year or two in that space because people are just like you said you can pick it out. I can, you can usually probably pick it out from a mile away. I'm like, hey, put that together. Yeah.

JQ: You just copied and pasted that. What is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's this notion that like it's this notion that stories stir souls. But stats. Just track, you know, like they just keep track of facts. Right. And so how do we write stories that actually stir our soul as opposed to like regurgitation of facts and numbers and data? We can get that anywhere now, right?

Chris Sund: video. You can. And I don't know if that's the human side of us that goes, mean, stats are important. You put the data in front and you're learning from it, but you could take the same information and throw a story in there. And all of a sudden the light bulb or aha goes off. You decide something to do something with it.

JQ: Totally, yeah. ⁓ Rich, my business partner, about a week ago, he's sitting, it's 11 p.m. at night in front of his computer and he's banging his head against the screen, metaphorically, not literally. ⁓ Because he realized that ⁓ an N8n, which is an AI agent workflow builder, we spent four weeks building this process in N8n to go search for leads and that kind of thing.

Chris Sund: Yeah.

JQ: And he was so upset and frustrated because in that moment at 11 p.m. he realized that Claude Cowork replaced that entire workflow without doing anything. And he was like, all of this work is feels like a waste. And I'm like, well, no, actually it was the map. All of the work that we spent process mapping and figuring out every single step that you do on a daily basis, because we're able to articulate that to Claude now, and we did it with N8N, we have the clarity of what we can automate with AI.

Chris Sund: Yeah, great point.

JQ: And so anyway, quick example there, but.

Chris Sund: great example. it goes to show the importance of like understanding and learning it. I think it's only as good as what we feed the technology and how we set it up. It's absolutely remarkable though what every new iteration and thing comes out and you go look, like you said, you go scrolling on something. Someone actually did that with that. And like that it's absolutely incredible.

JQ: Yeah. So it's like how, right? Like how can we do that for ourselves? How can we get the value that they're getting, you know? Yeah. What have you been playing around with lately?

Chris Sund: Yeah. So I haven't got to the point where like I'm building AI agents. I want to, the more I've talked the last week or two, I go, I probably should start learning and playing around with it from that. So I use a lot of basic, I would say AI functions across a wide variety and I've tried different ones that I believe do certain things better than others. ⁓ but like, you know, I think we, we talked about a little bit earlier, a representative company that is built on its own natural language model. ⁓ it was built. Yeah. Many years ago. So like, I mean, we're talking over 10 years ago. So AI wasn't even really being talked about, but Ed was working at JP Morgan. had a, way more people applying for finance roles than any human could go through. So imagine a thousand applicants and you're just kind of going like, well, who's the best? Where do we start with this stack? And so he started building models to go, well, what would you do if you had the time? If you did, why would you say this one's better than that one or that one's better than this one? And started building models around that idea. He ran into ⁓ our owner, Steven, who'd been in staffing and search

JQ: Yep. Hmm.

Chris Sund: and built quite a company and really understood that side and went, hey, what you're building here, we might have a better and even bigger use case that we could really expand on this. So pretty remarkable that that idea is, know, spawned into, you know, if we had all the data, let's say on the US and even the globe, and we had the markets, we have 200 million ⁓ people in this database that we've collected from a variety. ⁓ there and you put it all together, can you search? Can this thing say, if there's a thousand people with this type of specialty, this is where it goes? And we took it a step farther because you want the human aspect in that and going, okay, even if you did that and we can take out the bias, you don't see their names, you can't see their photos, you don't know if it's a guy or girl, none of that, it exists, you just looked at what they've done.

JQ: Hmm. Hmm.

Chris Sund: and then you decided from there, it actually learns and can say, you don't have time to reach out to these people. Tell me how you would reach out. in your language and we're going to start emailing, texting them and we're going to start asking them if they'd be interested in this job and we're going to keep behind the scenes looking for people. Where you can source an extra five to a hundred people a day depending on what you're looking for. We're going keep reaching out for you and doing the job that you you don't have the time to do. And so you know it's always fine tuning. You're always finding ways to take that you know and help improve it, enhance it. But it's been pretty remarkable coming from our space or one of the biggest things people say is trying to find good people and good talent or I don't have the time to go recruit. I'm just waiting for people to apply. Well, how do we solve that problem? How do we just make sure that people are even aware your job exists?

JQ: Yeah, what an innovative approach to it too. It's not saying, let us augment you by helping you post. You're actually proactively looking for the best qualified candidates that might not even be looking for a job right now.

Chris Sund: Bingo. And that's, yeah, because you you think of the jobs you're filling, it's probably because somebody applied more often than not. So it's all the ones that people are struggling for that you have to go head hunt really for.

JQ: Beautiful.

Chris Sund: But I think my experience with adoption of technology, if you start doing too much automation, people go, that's not what I would have said, or I don't want you to send that out. I would have said that, and it's coming from my email, you're putting my name on it. And so we kind of took, I tell people, we're not trying to build these robots like Ultron from Marvel that are gonna take things over. But what if we put Iron Man suits on all of our employees?

JQ: Hmm.

Chris Sund: Let's put that technology and you're still in control. It's your heart. It's your brain. It's your voice. What if we gave you some technology that now you can do way more faster and way more than you're able to do before, but you are fully controlling every bit and piece of that. So that's been fun to keep the human aspect that's so important in it and, but using the technology to enhance the human side.

JQ: Hmm. I love that. I think that's so aptly describing what the agentic leader is going to be this year. How do we have a leader who is so human-centered and is the human driving and powering their productivity with the tools that they have at their disposal?

Chris Sund: Yeah, it'll be interesting how much that helps play a part. would think it would. ⁓ It's also hard to say. Yeah, I think it's one of those, like, that's where you get into, like, the worrisome remodel talk. So we can talk about, like, what if they're not? And what if this person, like, what if somebody with this view really gets the building away and creates something that's on the flip side of that? So.

JQ: Hmm. Yeah, and that's interesting, right? Like as I wrestle with ⁓ how many asks are coming in, a lot of people sometimes bring up a lot of people bring up this notion of like, what can I trust? And how do we do it in an ethical and good or responsible way? And I feel like if you're building it yourself and you have the best of intentions, that's really what we should be focusing on, you know? How do we bring our best to life by leveraging the latest in technology? It feels like the most important question of our decade, you know, because I think now more than ever, we have this huge opportunity as individuals to bring our best works to life, to build, you know. What are your thoughts on that?

Chris Sund: Completely. There's scenarios, there's people that have great ideas and maybe never have the means or the ability to really see those ideas to what they are capable of becoming. And so if done right, if learned right and used right, the capabilities are for some of those.

JQ: Yeah.

Chris Sund: things and inventions and ideas to maybe see more of their maximum potential or even see their potential and get off the ground, I think is very high. Then on the flip side, the worry is what if we're just enhancing the noise that much more? If you ask people the last, let's just say since the pandemic, since 2020, how much more noise, outreach, things are getting put in front of us from marketing, social media, emails, texts, spam, calls?

JQ: Hmm.

Chris Sund: You name it. How much more noise do you get today than six years ago? And what's the next year or two gonna look like with what we are building? we just? Yeah. So, you know, there's that on the flip side. Are we gonna put so much noise out there ⁓ with AI and is so much of this gonna look so similar and sound similar and AI voice?

JQ: I'm gonna go hide in a rock in a hole when all the text is... Hmm.

Chris Sund: calling you but it sounds like people at what point ⁓ could it have the exact opposite effect on society where people are just like, like you said, I'm gonna go find the rock. I need to get away.

JQ: Yep. Yep. I think now more than ever, it's our, you know, I feel a duty to to be the pragmatic optimist. This view that, you know, realistically, maybe stuff's going to hit the fan, right? And it's going to be terrible. But just choosing to see optimistically what the future might hold. That's important to me. About a week ago, I was having ice cream with my cousin and her kids and You know, she's a mom, she has two kids, one's high school and one's elementary. So she's been for the last seven years been on PAC, like Parental Advisory Committees and that kind of thing. And she comes to me and she's, you know, she's holding her strawberry ice cream and she says, Hey, I know you post a lot about AI. Can I run something by you? And I said, yeah, yeah, sure. Like hit me. Well, what is it? And she says, you know, for the last seven years, I've kind of moved away from being a parent on the PAC committee because now I, one of the biggest problems I wrestled with was our hot lunch program. Like, what do you mean? She's like, it's a terrible, terrible app that we pay for. You can't customize your meals. You never know when things are going to get notified. She's like, what if I made, what would it look like if I try to make a hot lunch app now that's just better? Like I would design it with today's principles, with the same principles that we have on Uber Eats and. all the other Skip the Dishes and all of those apps. What would that look like now? Knowing what you know about AI, is it possible for me to build that? And I was like, should we just do it in the next week and see what happens? It can process payments, we'll link up to APIs that can process payments, and we'll have databases that can store CRM. It should be pretty easy. In less than a week later, we had something that was 10 times better than the crappy hot lunch program app that was built in 2000. That's value though, because now she's like, ⁓ I could sell this to my school, but not just my school, every other school district, this would be a slam dunk. You would make revenue on transactions per hot lunch offered to kids, and it would be cheaper than what they're currently paying for, and it would be way better. This is the kind of value I think that like, what glimpses of vibe coding last year have led to.

Chris Sund: Yes.

JQ: How do we create what we just have always imagined?

Chris Sund: That's, you know, I love that story. Cause how many people are sitting with those things that they've seen or known and once again, it's just what's been in place or it's always been there. And to go, wow, we probably could do this better. And doing this better isn't just to do it better because it's like, hey, this is a good business use case. But also like, this is actually going to make an impact as well for people.

JQ: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm looking forward to going to her school now and, when my kids get to his elementary school age and just having the ability to text my orders in for my daughter so I don't have to make her lunch anymore, you know, that would be the goal. Yeah.

Chris Sund: Yes. I mean, it's just amazing. What you can do with it and what I've seen. I don't know if you've seen, watched any high school or junior high and I think it's all the way down to elementary now, but there's these sports programs. Huddle being one of them I know of, but there's a lot of these programs out there that like are watching the sporting games. So my son had his basketball banquet.

JQ: Mmm.

Chris Sund: And we have video of every single game. And I was like, just sitting there like, it's so smart that it knows where it should be like leading into. And then you're getting stats and most information. I'm like, that is absolutely remarkable. Like to have that. And you caught that because it was being done. And I get it's being used across like all functions in areas. But I just go like that. You you never had anything even somewhat close to that in the past.

JQ: Hmm. And for your son to get coached by those insights, that's powerful.

Chris Sund: something that's like... Yeah. It's pretty amazing to say the least to watch. And once again, to catch other moments, what was cool was, you know, the coach actually talked about of all the plays and whatnot, you know, and as he was coaching, he was actually more proud as he watched at the end the game, a game they were losing and weren't going to probably come back to. But at the very end, as the buzzer goes and watch a kid dive for an out about a loose ball in the ground. Like give it all into the bleachers, like into the chairs, not stopping, regardless of the score and what it set up there. And then to watch that caught then the team, know, rushing over to the kid who just crashed into that and helping him up and, know, and, what kind of comes. So it was also cool. Like no one would have probably had that. No one's watching the last minute of a losing game probably and would have had that, but

JQ: Yeah. Mm.

Chris Sund: is neat for that just as much as the stats than to see the human aspect of like, are we building great people?

JQ: Yeah, yeah, the moments of, you know, team support and camaraderie and yeah, wow.

Chris Sund: So, I wanna, I feel like we went all over the board, but one of the things I like to know, you're so busy with your business, everything you're doing, helping others. You also have family. What's that look like? How are you balancing in your personal and professional life?

JQ: I love that we talked about the zoo prior to hitting record because that's actually gonna come in right in this moment now. ⁓ I try to bring them along. There's a rapper that I really like, his name's Toby Niigwe, he's out of Texas. And a few years ago, I saw a clip online of him just consistently bringing his family onto stage and in his songs he talks about how he doesn't show up if they're not allowed in. And for the longest time, we've been trying to balance work and life as if it's a problem that we can actually solve. But the truth is, is that it's a polarity for us to manage. It's work and life, work and family. And so what I've been trying to do is, you know, I do about 50 events a year. My family does not come with me to all of them, just to clarify that. But last year I had a week in Denver. And we hit up the zoo and I brought my family along where I did the event on like the one day and then had a working vacation as a result of that. So I think that's how we balance like the high burn that is keeping me busy with moments that really matter. Another quick aside, about a week, a month ago, I did my first event internationally in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. And, you know, I mentioned at the start of this recording. I'm Singaporean, which is right next door. So I thought to myself, what better time to sacrifice and say no to the rest of the events in a two week radius, say yes to that one event and bring my kids and my daughters to go meet their aunts and their uncles and their cousins for the first time ever. It's things like that where it's like, how do I intentionally make trade-offs to say, you know what, I'm not going to do any other work for two weeks.

Chris Sund: Mmm.

JQ: and I'm going to make the most of this opportunity that is in front of me.

Chris Sund: Yeah, that's way better use of your time than anything else. I mean, in what...

JQ: Yeah.

Chris Sund: that opportunity you're able to give your family is priceless. It's a memory that they will always remember. Whatever day to day they would do back home, who knows, maybe they do something pretty memorable, but likely, probably not. But you're creating these memories of a lifetime by bringing them along. I love that.

JQ: Yeah, there's this notion of how do we define what's good enough, regardless of what our profession is, right? When it comes to success, what is good enough? And let's not try to chase more than that. Cause I can be so, like I have so many friends who do like 80, 90, 100 events a year. And I think to myself like, I would hate that. Right? Like give me my 50 and like, let me drive impact there and show up and be present. And then for the rest of the time, let me prioritize playgrounds. where I can go swing on monkey bars with my daughters and step through mud and, you know, it's the quiet things that matter on that front for me.

Chris Sund: Yeah, well, I think, yeah, you've got it figured out right there. cause I don't know about you, but I'd be, yeah, what your thought is on this, but I don't want my professional bio and any part of it on my tombstone. That's for sure. I do not want any little bit of it.

JQ: Yeah.

Chris Sund: because it doesn't matter, right? So people can put, we can do all the work we want to add another like this and that and achievement or whatever. not something, but when the time comes, I really hope, you know, ⁓ husband and father, grandparent and those titles, that's really at the end of the day, what really matters. Those are the ones that hopefully generationally will remember and we make the biggest impact on.

JQ: Totally. The memories were showing up in the moments.

Chris Sund: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I want I unfortunately have to wrap this up, which is too bad because I could probably sit here and we could just go back and forth all day. ⁓ With that, I just as I thank you, I just want all the listeners to know I'm going to take and put a link for Jay's website along with his ⁓ page on Amplify Speakers. But also it will put a link as well. ⁓ for Change Fluency, so if you haven't, highly recommend you click on that link. You get yourself a copy of that, and they'll be all in the description for every episode, so please check it out, and thank you so much, Shay, for being on the podcast. Absolutely.

JQ: Thanks for having me.