Joshua L. Youngblood: welcome everyone to Well Actually, this is our first episode. My name is Josh Youngblood. I'm an enrolled agent in the Dallas, Texas area, and I'm joined by Shannon Hall. Shannon: Everyone, I'm excited to be here with you today. I'm Shannon Hall. I'm an enrolled agent as well. but I am based out of sunny Long Beach, California. As you can see, the sun is beaming in through my window here. So I like to think of it as a glow. Angelic glows. Joshua L. Youngblood: We have sun today too. It it's it's a hundred and five here today. So yeah. Shannon: Ho That's hot. But it's a dry heat, right? Joshua L. Youngblood: No, it's not. That's Phoenix. It's a very very humid heat. It's awful. Shannon: worse. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yes. So it's been a busy summer. Shannon: Yes. Yes it has. You've been traveling all over the place. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yes. I mean it started off in May. We found out we passed the tax court exam. Shannon: Yes, which was very exciting. We're very subdued about it right now, but I feel like there was a lot of yelling when we found out. Joshua L. Youngblood: Very fun. Now we're waiting. Yes, definitely. There was a lot of is this real? Shannon: Yeah. yeah. I kept refreshing it, but also not wanting to refresh it because I was scared that if I did, it would be like, just kidding. This was for someone else. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah. I I've still logged in a couple of times to see and and and the results still say past. So, you know, now we just have that long wait. Yeah, we had our interview. Yeah. Shannon: Well then we had the interviews. So I feel like if they messed up, they probably would have caught it before they interviewed us. One would hope. Joshua L. Youngblood: I I I I would hope so. Then we had we had Reno. We got to spend a couple weeks in Reno. Shannon: Yes, which was very fun. I love R listen, all of the places this summer people come down on. I think Reno is fun. It's the biggest little city. Joshua L. Youngblood: I I mean Reno, Reno is cool. Two weeks is a long time in Reno. It took me about Shannon: It was a long time. Joshua L. Youngblood: three flights to get to Reno from cancellations, but CSTC is one of my favorite events. Shannon: One of mine is I mean, I'm a little biased, I think, as the president of CSTC, but you know, I think it's a lot of fun. And we actually got to spend a little bit of time exploring the environs, right? Out in Truckee and Donner Pass and all of Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah. Shannon: that fun stuff. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, truck trucky was trucky was nice. It was a fun drive, nice area. I I I enjoyed it. then we got to do CSEA after that, which I was Shannon: Yes. Joshua L. Youngblood: just attending. You were you were speaking. Shannon: Yes, and that was also very fun. It's a Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah. Shannon: it's a different vibe a little bit, I think. I don't know what it's it's not they're just like different different vibes. I don't know. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, no, I I I think when, and I think you've you've said this before, when you have conferences that are for like all tax people, it's a different vibe than when it's just either, you know, EAs, CPAs, whatever. I think it's it's it's a different vibe. Shannon: Yeah, you get the whole kind of melting pot thing and yeah, it's like a little bit more easygoing. I don't know if that's the right word, but it just feels Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah. Shannon: a little bit not casual and not not that it's not as serious, but it just has this sense of kind of everybody's a little bit more relaxed. Joshua L. Youngblood: Right. Yeah. Then after we did that, we had a short break and then we got to go to Cleveland, Ohio. Shannon: Yes, which was also very exciting. People coming down on Cleveland. Cleveland was a blast. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, I mean I yeah, I had no idea what to expect. I mean, I've never been to or thought about going to Cleveland, Ohio. So I'm like, what's there to do? And come to find out there's a lot. Shannon: Yeah. Well, and we've got sort of a tradition now, right, Josh? When we go to these various Joshua L. Youngblood: Right. Shannon: new cities, we go on a ghost tour. Joshua L. Youngblood: And and the Cleveland Ghost Tour was really good. the Reno Ghost Tour was very strange, very Shannon: Odd. It was odd. Joshua L. Youngblood: odd. yeah, that that was that was definitely the strangest ghost tour I've ever been on. but the Reno one was Shannon: How many ghost tours have you been on? Joshua L. Youngblood: fun. maybe one other one. I mean, Shannon: Okay. Joshua L. Youngblood: I don't like to be scared usually, but nothing too scary other than maybe the Reno one for different reasons. Shannon: Yep. Joshua L. Youngblood: but we got to find out about the history of Cleveland. Shannon: Yes, which was very cool. Apparently it has the largest theater district outside of New York. Who knew? Joshua L. Youngblood: I would have never guessed that. Shannon: Yeah. So that was fun. Joshua L. Youngblood: And then though and then we had taxposium, which was a which was a great conference. Shannon: Yes. Amazing. And you taught I let's see, I did mostly updates at that one. And you did some Joshua L. Youngblood: I did cyber security and Shannon: yes. Joshua L. Youngblood: fixing mistakes in your practice. Shannon: yes. So on that note with mistakes and cybersecurity, if there was one thing that you could like wave a magic wand and all of a sudden every tax preparer in the world would do this one thing, what would that be? Joshua L. Youngblood: That would be multi-factor authentication. Shannon: Okay. Joshua L. Youngblood: The little code that nobody wants to take the time to enter could save them a lot of pain. Shannon: Can you not do that? Is that an option? Joshua L. Youngblood: Depending upon your software, we won't pick on Drake because we're both Drake users. you could turn it off. I I know people Shannon: Yeah, you can turn it off. Joshua L. Youngblood: who turn it off. but Shannon: That's wild. Joshua L. Youngblood: that would protect people from a lot of pain and suffering. Shannon: Okay. Joshua L. Youngblood: I mean, but I mean it's something easy enough to do. Shannon: Yeah. Well and I, you know, I don't want to come down on anybody, but like it's not that hard. I see people complain about multifactor, like it is the most onerous, like life ending inconvenience in the history of anything. And it's just like, you know, it takes five seconds. Joshua L. Youngblood: Right. It's not like you're having to call the IRS and fax over a power of attorney. That takes a lot longer. Shannon: Yeah. And honestly I like to kind of make it a game, you know, where the little the code counts down. I like to race. I'm like, can I make it? No. But sometimes I do and it's really exciting. Joshua L. Youngblood: I've always tried to do that in the car with the GPS and it's always right. Shannon: Yeah. Joshua L. Youngblood: I mean, there's no, there's no beating it. It's like, can I make it five minutes before? Shannon: Yeah. Joshua L. Youngblood: So what questions did you get? You taught updates. So I know you talked about Trump accounts. I know you talked about all the new fun stuff in OB3. Shannon: yeah, there's a lot of stuff coming at us this year. I think I don't want to say my favorite, because none of it's really good. I mean, there's some good I don't want to say that. There's some good stuff. I think the return of the charitable contribution deduction for non-itemizers is good. I think you know, one of the things that happened with TCJA when it increased the standard deduction is a lot of people stopped donating to charity because they weren't gonna get a deduction for it. And so it's nice to have that back where I think hopefully now people you can say, Hey, you can give money again because you can get a deduction for it. so that's kind of cool. I think the the two page schedule A is gonna be exciting. Joshua L. Youngblood: And then we got to check out the vendor hall with all the exhibitors and all of the Shannon: Yes. Yes it did. Joshua L. Youngblood: 504 AI products. Shannon: There's so many. Joshua L. Youngblood: Everybody has an AI product. Ask Tom Shannon: Yeah, everybody Joshua L. Youngblood: G.ai. Go check it out if you have it. There's my plug. Shannon: Yeah, absolutely. Joshua L. Youngblood: but no, every everyone has, you know, and and you know, yeah. Outsource it all Shannon: I mean Joshua L. Youngblood: to AI, right? Shannon: yeah, I wish I could say that it's not going to be the wave of the future, but I think it is already the wave of the future. I mean, I think I you know me, I like to dig my heels in about dumb, you know, Luddite kind of things. But I think like it's here, you know, and we can embrace it or we can not, but it's it's here one way or the other. Joshua L. Youngblood: yeah. And I but I I can appreciate those AI vendors out there that are open to having conversations about 7216 Shannon: Mm-hmm. Joshua L. Youngblood: versus some of those that don't want to talk about it or just want to say, no, it's good. Don't worry about it, man. So I mean, I I, you know, I think there's there's good conversations because I mean I had some good conversations with with FILED when I was at the NAEA conference in New Orleans. So I mean there's Think there's a lot of good conversation to their head. Shannon: yeah, and there's some cool products out there. I mean, there's some stuff because really isn't the point of AI supposed to be to do the stuff that we don't want to do? Like the Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah. Shannon: rote sort of repetitive data entry kind of stuff that doesn't take a whole lot of like high brain work so that it frees us up to do the rest of the fun stuff. Joshua L. Youngblood: Right. But I mean, I think on the other Shannon: Now let me ask you Joshua L. Youngblood: side of it is people want to just put everything into AI and not have to do anything. Shannon: Yeah. Which is also a thing, right? But at that point, what like if you can just dump everything into an AI and it'll do everything that we do, then what's the point of us? At that Joshua L. Youngblood: Exactly. Shannon: you know what I mean? Like I hope it doesn't get to a place where we can just dump everything into it and it will do exactly the same thing we can do because then we won't have jobs. Joshua L. Youngblood: Well, it's like OPR put out the you know guidance on AI. Obviously Shannon: Mm-hmm. Joshua L. Youngblood: it didn't go as far as what some of us hoped, but it talked about that. I mean, if you're still billing by the hour, which don't, but if you still are, you know, you don't get to bill for, you know, 10 hours if if you outsourced it to AI and it did it in two, you can't do that. And I know there was a lot of concern on social media about that. And it's like, well, Look at your practices. This is this is an opportunity for you to evolve. Shannon: Absolutely. Well, and hourly billing in general, I mean, I I'm pretty fast at doing a tax return. I don't know about you. I mean, I can enter the data pretty quickly and I can review it and look at it and know what's wrong because we've been doing it for a while. And I I think like, you know, should I charge somebody less because my experience and expertise lets me do it faster than somebody who's gonna take more time? That I hourly billing just encourages moving slowly. Joshua L. Youngblood: Right. I mean, if I could come Shannon: And I don't like to do that. Joshua L. Youngblood: into the office, do everything in five hours and then go home, that would be that would be great. That's not gonna happen because I'll find other things to do. But it's a cool it's a cool idea. Shannon: Yeah. Well, and Josh, you mentioned the seventy-two sixteen, and I know that you've kind of done a lot of outreach to try to find out what exactly those rules are gonna be. Do you feel like if somebody tells you outright, absolutely you don't need it, would that make you suspicious a little bit? Joshua L. Youngblood: Yes. If if I'm talking to a vendor and they tell me you don't need this, our business attorney, our you know, friend at the bar at happy hour told us don't worry about 7216. It only applies to offshoring. It doesn't apply to anything else. That tells me they haven't read it. Now, if they want to have a conversation with, well, our interpretation of this after looking at the relevant treasury regs is. You know, this is like using tax prep software in the cloud, so we don't think it applies. Okay, that's fine because we truly don't have guidance in black and white. Shannon: Mm-hmm. Joshua L. Youngblood: I tend to take the more conservative approach of saying get the 7216 disclosure signed, it's easy enough. But I think that some of the vendors are are obviously open to having the conversation, and then I think others are. being opportunistic that there is no hard guidance. Shannon: Well, and is there something, you know, speaking of opportunism, I suppose, there are so many right now. What would you recommend if somebody was gonna try to vet one of these companies? Like, what would you look for? Would you look for longevity? Would you look for certain kinds of disclosure? Like, what would you look for when you're looking into a new product to get some peace of mind in that way? Joshua L. Youngblood: Think longevity can be kind of hard because so many of these are brand new companies. I would Shannon: Yeah. Joshua L. Youngblood: look to see who's behind them. Are there any EAs, CPAs, tax attorneys that are working with them to give them any type of input? that's one thing I would look at. What vendors are they are they working with? What tax software you know are they supporting? I think those would be all good places to start. And then obviously asking them about 7216 and seeing if they give you a a legitimate answer, which is really I d we don't know. If you really want to, you know, boil it down to that, there is no black and white guidance from the IRS yet. I've Shannon: Yeah. Joshua L. Youngblood: asked chief counsel and I know they're looking at it. so hopefully we'll have something soon. Shannon: Yeah. And then as far as the information that we're putting into these systems, I mean, what kind of question would you recommend we ask? because you know, I mean, I'm kind of a tech I love gadgets and I love technology, but I don't really understand it at all. which is why I'm very excited that I have friends like you. But what kinds of things would we be asking? You know, do you train on our data? Where is it stored? Like, what do we want to be looking for with these companies to make sure that we're not gonna just dump a bunch of PII into you know, the free version of Claude, essentially. Joshua L. Youngblood: Well, and that's what's scary because you know, if you spend any amount of time on social media, you see that there are tax pros out there that are doing just that. They're dumping it all into Claude or ChatGPT. I mean, the first thing is you want to make sure it's not training on your data. You want to make sure it's not retaining your data. but honestly, in in my opinion, before you even get to that, if you're taking clients' data and putting it into a third-party system, you have a 7216 disclosure. issue that I mean I think you should disclose that. And you know, the the thing that I'll just throw out there is when you're doing that disclosure, you're not just writing, you know, two letters AI. You have to be specific about what you're using. Because I know that'll be the next thing if everyone's like, okay, well, we're just going to put AI and that could be, I mean, there's hundreds of AI models out there. but you have to be like specific of what you're actually what you're actually using it for. And I mean I think as time goes on, we will get guidance and things will become more more regulated and we'll have, you know, a clearer path forward, I hope. Shannon: Well, and theoretically, you know, I'm thinking like, man, it'd be hard to like list all that out. But theoretically, as you're adding these new products in, you should be updating your Wisp to include it. So you should already have I see you smiling, Josh. But you should already have that information kind of your your tech stack, right? You should have all of that ready to go because you are putting it into your Wisp. Joshua L. Youngblood: Which, you know, this weekend I finished up a four-hour workshop that'll be online with NATP on that. but yeah, you want to know what what are you using in your practice? It's up to you to know. And that's kind of one of the benefits of this workshop is we go in detail through doing your Wisp, updating your Wisp. And it's not this scary thing. It's just you wanna know. And If if you don't know who does, I mean, especially if you're the firm owner, that falls that falls under your responsibilities. Shannon: Absolutely. And that was one of the things that they mentioned in that new OPR guidance is the competence piece of it and the due diligence piece of it both extend beyond just, you know, I'm gonna put this thing in here. It's I need to be competent of how that's working and what it's doing and where it's sending the information. I you know, I don't need to be a software engineer, but I need to at least understand on a basic level what's happening in that process. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah. And that was one of the things that I enjoyed most at Taxposium after my class was like two hours on cybersecurity. And afterwards people came up and had some questions, or they were working with their local IT company and maybe they weren't giving them exactly what they needed. And I'm like, well, reach out to me. And you know, I had one person who forwarded me an email from their current IT provider who was kind of pushing back on setting up some multi-factor authentication and encryption. And I Send them reply and I'm like, hey, you know, explain this to them, pour this on so they understand exactly why you need what you're asking for. and if they still don't want to do it, then find somebody else. But oftentimes, you know, having lived in the IT world, IT people can be very dismissive of people that they think don't understand. And it's like, no, there's a reason this tax pro is asking for this. Shannon: Yeah. Definitely. So Joshua L. Youngblood: So of the one the other things we like to talk about is books. What's a good book Shannon: yeah. Joshua L. Youngblood: you've read, Shannon? Shannon: I just finished what I just finished a book called The Organized Mind, which was a fascinating book. It was written by a neuroscientist all about you know, how our brains aren't really designed to retain a lot of information. And we're not I mean, we can retain information, but trying to remember things in the short term takes a lot of mental energy. So if you can the more you can externalize the things in your mind. The more it frees you up to be able to do creative thinking and do all this other kind of high-level thinking that you want to do. So having, you know, one space where your keys always go so that you don't have to worry about where your keys are, it sort of frees you up to be able to do that. And it's a fascinating book. It's not the quickest read, I will say. It took me a little while to get through, but it was very, very interesting. And then I jumped immediately into. Joshua L. Youngblood: Sounds like something we could all use. Shannon: Hunter Thompson book. So I like to think of it as range. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, I mean, you know, how much time do we all spend reading tax stuff? I mean, sometimes you've got to read fun stuff. Shannon: Yes. I remember last year when we were out in New York, which we're going to be up in upstate New York and much sooner than I think any of us are probably ready for. but it was right before the tax court exam when we were there last year. And I was sitting in the bar, I took my book down, I was reading some it was not the best book, but it was like a little fun Halloween themed novel. so I'm sitting at the bar reading it and one of my friends came up to me and started yelling at me. She was like, What is this? What is it? Recreational reading? What is this? And Cheryl Travado, who teaches the tax part class, happened to be there. And she was like, Cheryl, Cheryl, look at this. Recreational reading. And I was like, I have to give my brain a break. I can't do it anymore. Joshua L. Youngblood: Which I do know that the registration I think has opened for the next cycle of the tax court exam. Shannon: Yeah. Joshua L. Youngblood: Obviously, if you're thinking about doing this, I I would say go for it. It's tax court, I think it's tax court exam dot com. Shannon: I think so. Yes. We can throw it up in the are we gonna we'll do show notes or something? We can Joshua L. Youngblood: but I mean that's yeah, it'll be it'll it'll be in the yeah, it'll totally be in the show notes. it is taxcourt exam.com and that you know that is the program. If you're going to do the tax court exam, that's the program you do. I mean, Cheryl is great, Tom, Shannon: Absolutely. It's hard to Joshua L. Youngblood: Tom's great. Shannon: Yeah, it's hard to argue with their results too. I mean, what was that, Joshua L. Youngblood: Right. Shannon: a hundred and sixty-four people took it? Something like that. And Joshua L. Youngblood: I think yeah. Shannon: sixteen passed. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, was it I mean, in in my opinion, it's the most challenging, brutal, painful thing I think I've ever done. Shannon: I like to take tests and after that thing I was like whew that whew. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, it was you know, I think I'm s I think I still had PTSD over that hypno hypnosis question that I I yeah, it was awful. Shannon: The hypnosis question. People, the hypnosis question had spread far and wide. I think there was because I bumped into other people who were US TCPs or had heard about it. They were like, yeah, what was the hypnosis question? I was like, my God, let me tell you. It was wild. But it was, I have to say, that class, I mean, obviously it's easy to say this having passed, but even if I hadn't passed, that class was so much fun. I mean, the whole experience Joshua L. Youngblood: Yes. Shannon: of just like, that level of being challenged and the engagement that I felt in those was it six days of of the classes and then the two day review, it just was Joshua L. Youngblood: Mm-hmm. Shannon: like an experience unlike anything I had had in a really long time. And it was absolutely worth it, whatever the outcome was. Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, I mean, just the the amount of stuff I learned through the class. I mean, Shannon: Mm. Joshua L. Youngblood: had I not passed the exam, I still would be further ahead because I learned so much stuff through throughout the class. Thankfully I passed because I don't ever want to have to take the exam again. but it it was it was definitely worth it. But what would you say to someone who's thinking about thinking about doing it and maybe they don't have any type of formal education background, which I certainly did not. Shannon: Yeah, I mean, I also did not. I think you and I have sort of a similar, like we had very different paths, I think, but we had sort of a similar, what do we call it? Non-conventional education sort of journey, right? Non-traditional, I think Joshua L. Youngblood: Nine yes. Yes. Shannon: is another thing they say. I mean, yeah, I I had a rough time in school. I mean, I didn't I got bullied a lot when I was a kid because I was kind of a weird nerd and I didn't like to go, and so I just ditched a lot and they don't They don't like it when you do that. So they, you know, they kick you out eventually. And they they shipped me off to the the bad kids school. The I went to a continuation school, which is where I graduated. I graduated early because it was kinda like the perfect place for me. It was very small classes. The teachers really cared about their students and they all sort of recognized that I was there by a weird happenstance and took a lot of interest in me and I met somebody who helped me with scholarships as I was going through school. And I went to acting school, which, you know, it is what it is. I have zero regrets. And I think an arts education is one of the best things you can do, frankly, because I think it prepares you for life better than a lot of other disciplines do. but this is all kind of accidental. I did go back and get a degree in accounting eventually, but I think If you're sitting out there and you're thinking, I couldn't possibly do the tax court exam because I don't have a master's in taxation or I don't have, you know, all of these other things, you can absolutely do it. And Josh, if you want to share a little bit about Joshua L. Youngblood: Yeah, I mean, you know, t totally. I mean, when I when I was in school, I fixed all the computers. That's what I did. I didn't have to go to class most of the time. And I just fixed the computers and ultimately left and got my GED, which, you know, I know people look at and they're like, my God, that's terrible. And I can only imagine at the time the amount of shit that my mother got from, you know, letting me do that. But it worked out pretty well. I mean, you know Thing things have a way of of working out. And I've gone back and, you know, work got a associates working on a bachelor's, but you know, the best experience in my opinion is just actually doing it hands on. I mean, I I certainly would not discount education because I think it's great, but you don't need to have a master's to to do the tax board exam. You just have to be able to understand what's going on and and you know, commit to the time that's required. Shannon: Absolutely. And there's no substitute, I think, for intellectual curiosity. You know, you can pay for degrees, but if you how do I want to say this? College isn't the only place to get an education, in my opinion. As long as you are curious enough and you know where to find it, you can get an education at the library. You can get an education at the bookstore. there's all kinds of ways to get there. And I think that's the key, is that you have to want to learn and keep learning. And I think that's The coolest thing about this profession is that you always get to be learning. There's never a point where you're like, Cool, I know it all. I'm good. Joshua L. Youngblood: Well, and then I had a couple of people ask me after the after I, you know, I found out that I passed. They're like, Well, you know, are you still gonna do various types of, you know, C E or things that I do? And I'm like, Absolutely. This doesn't mean I know everything by, you know, any stretch. I just passed Shannon: Mm-hmm. Joshua L. Youngblood: an exam on a given day. I mean, yeah, it was a hard exam and I don't, you know, take that away from myself or any of us, but you suddenly don't just know everything from you pat you know, from passing An exam. And I think people can sometimes forget that. but Shannon: Yes. Agreed. Joshua L. Youngblood: you know, to your point, being a tax pro, it's you always continue to learn. That's why we read tax court cases, which I've had people in classes kind of be like, why do I need to do that? and I try to explain that. It's like, you know, what would you tell tax pros they should be reading to keep up with everything that's going on, other than, you know, some of our substacks that we all, you know, that we do. Shannon: I well, obviously that. but I think, you know, you want to find reputable sources. So if you're gonna go and look for secondary sources like a substack, obviously yours, our friend Tom's, something like the federal tax developments is a great resource as well. but you just wanna know what the authority is, right? You know, you've got the code, which is all of the laws. And then you've got the court that interprets the code. They're the highest authority in interpreting the code. And so if you're looking for something, you look for a regulation, you look for a code section, you look for a court case. you just wanna be careful if you're gonna take a position on something that you're not taking a position with something that doesn't really hold authority. I mean, obviously don't use a clawed answer, because that's not gonna get you there. But even Joshua L. Youngblood: Well what what about those publications? I mean, you can get those publications from the IRS office I hear. So what about those? Shannon: Well, so this is the thing. It would it feels like an IRS pub should be a primary source of authority, right? It seems by all accounts like it should be, but they aren't. And so you have to be careful. And I'll tell you this story. we were out, Ryan Rikert and I, when we do our update seminars, we do a big writing retreat every year. We go out to the desert and we just sequester ourselves in this house for a couple of days and research everything and write the book. And we've brought Tom along with us a couple of times. And so we'll all work together and write together and then we hang out. And there was one year where it was something to do with gambling. And I was kind of looking at something, and I read the one thing, Tom had said something. I looked at the pub and I was like, Are you sure about that thing you said? Because the publication doesn't agree with you. And so it was a probably like a Five hour downward spiral of Tom and Ryan just freaking out, finding everything they could. And I was just sitting there, you like sipping coffee, you know, having good time. And it turned out after we did all of this, I say we, but it was really just them. all of this work, the publication was wrong. So if you were going off of what the pub said and you took a position based on that, you would be wrong. And if you said, well, it's in the pub, They're gonna say that's not a primary authority. Joshua L. Youngblood: So this this is our big well actually the pub is not, you know, can't rely on the pub. Shannon: Pubs are not authority. Exactly. Joshua L. Youngblood: Well, I think that, you know, this made for a good first episode. I'm looking forward to to doing to doing more episodes. And, you know, we plan to have other people on, review some products and have our show notes. And if people want to find you on social media, where can they find you, Shannon? Shannon: So I'm on LinkedIn as Shannon Hall. You can also find me on Facebook. you can find my Instagram, but it's not the most professional one. So if you find me there it is fun. Joshua L. Youngblood: But it's fun. Shannon: My my Instagram handle is at tawdry underscore hepburn, which is a very fun pun. Joshua L. Youngblood: That's a story for another episode. Shannon: It is a story for another episode. Joshua L. Youngblood: And you can find me on LinkedIn, but if you know Twitter, known as I guess X now is where you could find me most of the time at Josh Youngblood. So I think that wraps it up. And please stay tuned. You can click, you know, below on any of your favorite podcast apps, Apple, Spotify, YouTube to subscribe. And until next time. Shannon: Thank you.