Dalton: Welcome to the first episode of the RDTFM podcast. We're super excited to have you with us today. And we'll see that we meet at the intersection of golf beer in life as a CPA. And you might be wondering where that intersection exists. Well, it's right down the freaking middle, baby. so we've got a good episode for you where we're gonna meet Chris and Chad and myself, Dalton. gonna go through some beer tasting as ever. we're gonna get into some golf, what's good, what's bad, what's working, what's not. We're gonna have some hot takes on CPA life, see what our firms are doing, some debate. see if we can figure out this thing and get that ball more towards the middle for us. So to kick it off, little little updates for each of us and intros. My name is Dalton. I'm based out of Southern California. I'm managing partner of a tax and cast firm. We have about eight of us and my golf game is currently on mostly pause, recovering from an injury. Before that I was a we'll say a t a twelve handicap. but working towards that number, who knows what we are right now, twenty five, thirty, forty five, something in there, who knows? Chad Allen: Lower than that. Dalton: but working working back Chris Hervochon: Mm. Dalton: there, starting to get some swings in, which is good. So we'll kick it over to Chad. Why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about your golf game and what life looks like for you. Chad Allen: Yeah, the so I'm I'm the hack of the group. I'm here to to represent the the high handicappers of of the world. So Chad Allen, I'm a I'm also obviously a CPA run a run a firm in suburban Kansas City. my I primarily work in the audit world, but if we're we're a a full service firm, small firm, all three of us are, so Married two kids, one in college, one in she's in nursing school and then my son's a senior, so neither will be filling the pipeline as accountants. one of them that's okay. The other one was that's a bummer for us all, but I'll let I'll let them decide which one is which. Yeah, in my and my game. I like I describe my golf game as I I feel like I'm a a perfect scramble player. 'Cause if you if you need to rely on any of my shots, Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: it's not gonna be not gonna be great. But I'll give you some and I feel like I'm a decent time to golf with. I feel like I'm fun. So that that's that's me in a nutshell. Chris, how about you? Chris Hervochon: Yeah, can confirm that you're fun to play golf with. so I'm Chris. I'm from Hilton Island, South Carolina, originally from New Jersey. also run a small CPA firm, operates virtually, and my index is currently five point two, feels like twenty. So Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: a little bit of an issue there, but you know, we're working through it. Dalton: Nice. Awesome. Alright, I've got a legal disclaimer here. before we get started, one quick disclaimer. The three of us are CPAs, but what we're talking about here is general discussion, not tax accounting, legal or financial advice. A lot of this stuff can get extremely technical and depends on your specific circumstances. So talk to your own CPA or advisor before actually doing anything based on what you hear here. Basically don't listen to anything we say. So now we got that off the board. Chris Hervochon: Yep, fair. Dalton: We can get into the fun thing. Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: So let's go ahead and crack open these beers. Get them Goins. Chris Hervochon: Dalton, what do you got? Dalton: I am working with a hazy. This is out of San Diego. It's called Harland Brewing. Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: it's a labor of beer. Hazy IPA. see how it goes. It's got citra, mosaic, southern cross hops. we'll see. Chris Hervochon: Sweet. I've got a heady topper, which my understanding is an IPA from Vermont brought back by I guess our our mutual friend, Bobby Bonds from from Vermont. So he brought Dalton: Okay. Chris Hervochon: me this IPA, said, Hey, you're gonna enjoy it, so here we are. Dalton: I love it. All right. Let's see. Let's see if you Chris Hervochon: So what you got? Dalton: do. Chad Allen: I have a space camper juice nova, something I had never heard of until I went so I went to the liquor store Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: just to get something for this trip, so I don't I don't know if you guys just pulled something from your fridge, but I I did not half ass it, I whole assed it and went went to the liquor store just Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: just for the purposes of this. So Boulevard is a is a brewery in Kansas City. It's pretty it's huge here, it's it's it's pretty good size, got it got a great following, they do a lot of good stuff, but and this is one that I'm not familiar with, never seen it before. So it is a nine percenter, so high octane, so that I don't see what could possibly Dalton: Jet jet fuel. Chad Allen: possibly see what could possibly go wrong. So Chris Hervochon: No, we'll figure it out for sure. Mine's eight, so not quite in that realm, but higher than a pernicious, I believe. Dalton: Yeah. I'm only six and a half, so I'm I'm going I'm going easy. That's fine. Chris, how was that first sip? What you thinking? That's right. Chad Allen: Well, you're driving. Chris Hervochon: Well, that's why you're hosting. It was it was good. it's hoppy. I I which I appreciate. it's good. You know, Bobby was not he was not leading me astray. Dalton: Nice, nice. Yeah, I I often don't like the citron mosaic hop combo, so no th maybe these Southern Cross hops are kinda pulling some weight here, 'cause it's actually not bad. I I don't mind this whatsoever. yeah, pr pretty easy drinking so far. Chad, how was yours? Chad Allen: Super super juicy florally. It's it's a it's a juice nova, so that should it it only catches a moron off guard if that was if you weren't expecting Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: that, but not super bitter. I mean it's you can definitely tell it's it's nine percent, but yeah, it's good. I like it. You have to really like Fruity beer fruity not fruity beers, but fruity IPAs for this though, 'cause it's that's definitely there. So Dalton: Okay. All right, we'll get we'll get back to the beers here, get them a rating by the end of the show, so keep that in mind as you're as you're sipping through But let's let's transition over to the scorecard here, which is our section on your game recently, what you've been doing, where you've been playing, how you've been hitting, general golf update. so Chris, you you played a a course was it earlier this week or la late last week? Chris Hervochon: Yeah, like last week. So I took some so I flew out to see some clients in Chicago who I'd never met in person. So that was cool. but we went out and played Cog Hill number four, dubst dubstread. long time host of the PGA tour. Tigers won there a bunch of times, and I'm here to tell you that that golf course is frickin' hard. So Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: chopped it around there. I shot ninety one. not yeah, not great. Not great. Dalton: As a five two. Chad Allen: Wow. I I I think that's a that's a statement on the course. Chris Hervochon: I did hit four incredibly good shots. I'm telling I I mean, look, it's really hard. I mean, we basically looked for like on every shot we were basically looking for golf balls. most 'cause like rough rough was up and like it yeah, I it was like every shot. we're looking for somebody. Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: but like I can confirm super hard. And then I followed that up. So I flew out Thursday night and got in like nine o'clock central or whatever. And we you know, I texted my client and it's like, hey when you when you get into the course and he's because we had an 810 T time. So he goes, Well, I'll be there by seven. It's like, well shit. And so now I'm getting up at, you know, crack of dawn, driving half an hour out to the course. We played, got lunch, flew home, rolled in about one AM, and then got up the next morning and played my home track in the Iron Man. So the Iron Man six holes scramble, six holes shamble, two man teams, and then six holes alternate shot. And so we finished on an all or we started on an alternate shot hole. I've got no warm-up because I made the executive decision that I'm gonna I'm gonna take the extra half hour of sleep, right? Before I go out to the course. Okay, fine, fair enough. We get out to the first the eighteenth T is where the shotgun start. Partner looks at me and he goes, You wanna hit the T shot? I said, No. I said, Do you wanna hit the T shot? And he goes, The last five I hit on the range weren't really good. So I proceeded to hit the T shot straight out of mounds. And then that's Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chris Hervochon: how that's how that went and we finished DFL. Dead fucking last. So Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chris Hervochon: that's how my golf has gone for for the Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chris Hervochon: last for the last several days. Somebody else please tell me that you're doing better than that. Yep. Dalton: That's a r that's a rough week. Yeah, Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: that's a rough week. What about you, Chad? What where you been playing lately? What have you been doing? Chad Allen: No, dude, you're you're the Yeah, well well real qu what do you so what do you think your friend Chad, the nineteen handicapper, would've shot at Coghell? Chris Hervochon: okay, so the so the guy that I played with, I'm gonna guess that he's probably and I'm looking at the card right now, but I'm gonna guess that he's maybe in the fifteen neighborhood. Fifteen handicap. He shot one three. Dalton: Oof. So double Yeah. Chad Allen: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: So do it do it that way you will. Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: Yeah. Well I can do that on my my home track too, so so we we just this summer joined a club here called J Hog Club. and it's and it's been great. I think like golf everywhere it's just gotten really tough to get tea times on a on a public course. So bit the bullet and and and joined a club. Haven't looked back since. It's been awesome. I haven't played this much golf probably ever in my life. and so it's you know life is life as a 20 ish handicapper is a wild ride. It's I've I've I send you guys some of my scorecards, you know, as as we're playing and it's you know triple far par quad. for me. So it's which speaks to my comment about Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chad Allen: about being in a scramble. So it's been it's been mostly fine improving. So it's my my kind of goal has always been for this summer to get from low twenties down to try to get to a fifteen. that has that's starting to look unreasonable. So a year from now I'd like to be a fifteen. And then and then we'll we'll check we'll check down from there. But yeah, it's been hit and miss lately. It's I ha I I've started doing a thing where I take all my my scores and I'll I'll put my everything from my app and I'll put it into Chat GPT and I want it to track and I have it take like It's almost like a best ball type thing. So for my last three and last five rounds, if I took the best and worst score from each of those, like where's my range at? And so those those will get in the seventies. and also up around one ten on the wor the worst. So it's a wide a wide range. It's freaking maddening because you know, when you do that, you know that you know, you're capable of doing stuff. You just for whatever reason can't. Can't string enough together, which I think is why I mean that's why we're all amateurs, right? Like if you were that like you don't talk to anybody who plays a lot of golf. They were like, I just have never hit a good shot this summer. Like that doesn't Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: that doesn't happen or you would have quit. But if you were if you were consistent with it, you'd be doing it for money probably. So so yeah, it's you know, it's it's a fun it's been a fun journey, but it's as frustrating as it is, it's been It's it's been enjoyable and it's not not stopping any time soon unless I get hurt. So fall fall in some standing water or something like that and break my wrist again. Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chris Hervochon: Not that that's ever happened. Chad Allen: Not that it's ever happened. No. Dalton: No, no, not once, no. Yeah, so so speaking of injuries getting hurt, that's my that's my current state. I had surgery beginning of the year and so I'm working my way back. some setbacks, you know. Chris likes to say he's gonna bubble wrap me. Kinda keep me protected from myself. So but you know, you gotta live a little bit. so I've I've just I'm I'm swinging maybe ninety percent now with irons. I got up to six iron today, so that was good. Yardages in in distance was actually like pretty comparable with where I had been. so swinging smooth is maybe the recipe of success instead of trying to smash the ball every time. that's what I'm learning on this a little bit, but yeah, I basically the extent of my golf right now is thirty to forty shots at the range and that's about my limit. temperate from there, but hopefully back to full golf here in another three, four weeks. I'm playing a local par three course in a couple Chris Hervochon: So are you having a Dalton: of days. Yeah, go for it. Chris Hervochon: Are you having to do any any sort of conversation with your swing? Dalton: Yeah, for sure. So I I what what's what's limiting me right now, I have so at hip surgery, and then I have a a quad injury on top of that. The quad injury is what I had the r the recurrence injury of. that was six weeks ago or so. and so I'm really not able to get a whole lot of like hip turn. so I'm really keeping everything like very much straight forward, straight back instead of rotating my my hips a lot. not having a whole lot of movement forward either. So I it's a lot of arms and just trying to focus on like smooth c clean contact. but I'm learning that like man if I just do that like it's it's maybe easier and I'd hit the ball more consistently. So who knows? Maybe I'll go out there and shoot my first round. I'll end up all time low score. Who knows? Here's hoping but yeah so excited to kind of get get back in there. I'm interested to hear from you guys where Where are you at? So Chris, you've been going through it, right? A couple of tough rounds. what's what's the miss? Like what what are you where are you stuck right now? What's not going right? Chris Hervochon: All of it. No, well actually everything's going right. That's kind of problem. I so Dalton: Okay, all right. Chris Hervochon: like it you know, I so I used to be a reasonably good player and I used to be a fairly good driver with golf ball, and then probably five or six years ago that just left and I got a very serious case of the lefts, like really super quick hooks. And at this point I feel like I've kind of deduced what the problem was. mostly set up. For the most part. You know, the the guy who used to teach me back when I was in college, he used to say, you know, just get back to the fundamentals and you'll kinda figure it out from there. And it's usually a fundamental problem. So that's kind of what I've deduced and when I hit it really good, I'm hitting it a lot better. My good shots are way better than they used to be. But like I after ha hit having hit it left for like six years, I'm a little bit gun shy. So my miss now is to just kinda hold on to it a little bit too much and hit it right, which is not super great. Dalton: Mm-hmm. Chris Hervochon: So that's really kind of what I'm dealing with. It's just more of it's gonna take me longer to get my confidence back and then then that will ultimately fix it, I think. That's my miss. Chad, what about you? Chad Allen: Yeah, kinda everywhere. And I think it's a it's a symptom of like we've we've shared club swing data. Like the great the great thing about having Chris as a friend is he's an ex pro, ex teaching pro, so I can send screenshots of all my garbage data output and be like, Here, fix and Dalton: Mm-hmm. Chad Allen: one of the one of the issues that I have Chris Hervochon: Teaching pro very loosely, by the way. Chad Allen: Yeah, well, you're more teaching pro than me, so Chris Hervochon: Very loose for like five minutes. Yeah, we don't say that out. Chad Allen: so mine is a a a a result of of just a guy who doesn't never had a lesson that'll that'll be starting soon. So, you know, club face is constantly open, the wrists are closing at a really fast rate w right before the ball. So when it's timed up well, that works out and when it doesn't, it it doesn't. So my my usual miss my usually miss misses are like most amateurs. I think it's, you know, short and right. when you leave the face open and then when you get a little too closed it's long and left, but most it's just it's spraying all over the place. I go through weeks, couple of weeks where things feel dialed and I'm like, Okay, that's the swing feel I need and then I'll come back out and play again and like a surprise of what what's gonna happen. So Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: it's it's like a it's there's a a blessing and a curse with like all the the things that I've gotten like a I got a launch monitor last winter really just to kind of mess around with in the here at home in the in the out in my garage. And one by product of that is is it collects a a ton of swing data which didn't at at the time really mean much to me. And then the same thing with this with my GPS app. I bought it because I, you know, wanted it for the GPS app thing. And it also uses it it has a ton of swing data, like with f your wrist angles and all kinds of stuff like that. So I try not to over analyze and freak out about it too much, but you know, we're we're CPAs, you're kind of analytic. So if you give us data Dalton: Ha ha. Chad Allen: on something, we'll try to make some sense of it. it's it's a little difficult to do with it with a twenty. Chris Hervochon: So for the people listening, what what app is that? Chad Allen: golf shot. I give it a I give it a zero for originality and the l and the name, but it's pretty it's pretty Dalton: Mm-hmm. Chad Allen: legit. I like it. it's a you know, I I have the paid version, I forget what I paid, eighty bucks a year or something like that, but it's it's awesome. I love it. It's it gives you strokes gained and all that all that kind of stuff. So way more information probably someone at my level needs. but but it's awesome. Highly recommend. So Dalton: And and for all those Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: doubters out there, we clearly suck at this whole podcast thing. So we are not paid in any way or given free stuff in any way. So that is that is unbiased advice from Chad right there. Chad Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Dalton: Yeah, I think I think for me, my I mean, clearly I miss things right. I I can't I can't get my hips to clear so often like things just kinda push right right now a little bit. That's generally my miss anyways. I generally have a fade if it's going right, slice if it's not. And then I have a series of these just tops. I I I think I played a scramble with Chris maybe a year or two ago. I think I topped the first like eight drives, first eight T shots. They just like went twenty yards. I just like I'll get into that funk, and then I won't do it for six months, and then I'll have another round where it's like half the course is just tops. so that's fun. let's let's pivot a little bit to to the RDT FM shot. So, what was your what's your memorable shot? Where did you like yeah, I figured this out. I frickin' nailed that. Wha what was the good? Chad Allen: We've got we've got one hole on our home co h home course nine that's like a it's like a slide dog leg lift and then it at the dog lid it it drops off. And if you can cut the dog leg a little bit and clear the trees, you can get some big ego numbers on your drive. Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chad Allen: So wa well out over three hundred and I don't hit anywhere close to three hundred to to be very clear about things. But if you if you catch it right it'll it'll you know, you can roll it out pretty good. And it's kind of fun. it's a fun hole just 'cause you can you know, sort of have the feel of what it's what it's like to be Gary Woodland for ten minutes, you know, hitting a hitting a shout out Gary Woodland. Hitting a Dalton: Shout out Gary Woodland. Chad Allen: who's a member at our club by the way. So it's it's kinda neat taking a taking a nine iron into a power five, but it's those don't happen very often. So Dalton: Speaking of Gary Woodland, you see his top a week or two ago? That Chad Allen: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Yeah. Dalton: was that made me feel so good. I was like, alright, he's one of us. Like he's he's he's one of the people. This is great. Made me feel a lot better about myself. Chris, what about you? What was or go ahead, Chad. Chad Allen: Yeah. And then and then his reac his reaction to it was great. Chris Hervochon: Mm-hmm. Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. Chris Hervochon: for me I don't really have a whole lot to choose from over the last week to be totally honest. but I did Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chris Hervochon: hit a six iron from like one ninety five on fourteen par three at Cog Hill last week. That's about as good as I can hit it. Hit it probably about eight feet. And then what was Dalton: Yes. Chris Hervochon: even better is I did a really good job of leaving the birdie putt short downhill as one does. And so yeah, it was great. It was really it was really good. Dalton: Love that. Yep, love that. Chad Allen: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: It was a great six iron though. Really, really kind of spectacular. Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: About as good as I can hit it. Yep. Not so much the putt, though. Dalton: Nice. Nice. Yeah, I I've been limited to range stuff, top golf, that kind of stuff. I can't not not ready for a full course. So I was at Top Golf sometime in the last week, and they have this new, at least new to me, where you can play like closest to the pin. So they have Chris Hervochon: Mm. Dalton: two courses, Kiawa and then Pebble Beach, and it's like nine holes. And I don't think they're all just par threes. I think sometimes they just like put you in the fairway on a random hole. but there's a par three. Hundred and sixty six yards. I think it was like fifteen feet downhill. and so I took an eight iron, carried it about one sixty, right at the flag. couple bounces, rolled past, I think it rolled to like twelve, thirteen feet away. And I was like, Okay, hey, we're kinda we're kinda doing doing okay things. I mean an eight iron one sixty carry for me, it's like that's like that's that's real yardage. It's downhill a little bit, but that's pretty that's pretty close to normal. So that that felt pretty good. I was like, We're back, baby. We got it. We got that one down. Chad Allen: You didn't you didn't do the you didn't do you didn't do the Angry Birds? Dalton: I hate that game. That game. My kids beat me in that game 'cause I I'm convinced with that game, Chris Hervochon: Ha ha ha. Dalton: the the worse at golf you are, the better you are at Angry Birds. I kid you Chad Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Dalton: not my six year old beat everybody the last time we went because he just like bumbles it a little bit and he knocks down all the things. Just Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: so infuriating. I'm like sailing over It's the worst. Chad Allen: Right. Dalton: Absolute worst. Chris Hervochon: Probably rigged. Dalton: Man. I think it is rigged. It's gotta be rigged. There's a it's They probably see like who's stepping over the bottom, like, I'm gonna get this guy, let's just move these duck or these birds on him. Chad Allen: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Yeah. If that kid wins, we're gonna get this guy for another several hundred dollars at top cop. Yep, a hundred percent. It's a conspiracy. Dalton: That's right, yeah. Chad Allen: Right. Dalton: Alright, I think that's that's probably enough of us pretending like we're golf professionals. We're unfortunately professional CPAs. so maybe let's transition to to life as a CPA. and again, this is not CPE, right? Don't take this for for CPE or any kind of like value that you wanna go ahead and institute, talk to your advisor. But what you guys kinda wrestling with at your firms right now? What's what's occupying your time, your bandwidth, your minds? what what are your roadblocks or anything like that that you're working through right now? Chad Allen: We're we're kinda dealing with it's n it's not it's something that you all deal with it's not really a sign of the times or anything, but we have some kind of larger client reshuffling. You know, I've had I've had a couple foreign owned entities that that you know the there's changes on the parent side, so so we'll end up losing like our second biggest client and things like that. And and We haven't I haven't done this for a long time, but I've done it long enough to not freak out when stuff like that happens. that you know, my one of my first jobs I remember was a small firm and the partner there just did not seem to give a single shit if we lost a huge client. And I and I could never figure out if he was if he was trying to play it cool so that the staff didn't freak out or if he really didn't care. And I'm pretty sure he didn't he just didn't care. And I've gotten to kind of gotten to be the same way. Like there's Dalton: Mm-hmm. Chad Allen: there's so much work out there, I think, that it's you Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: know, you're you it's not hard to refill the tank if you're as long as you're trying. Like if you're just sitting there waiting for it, maybe not. But so we've had it we've had a couple big ones turn over and it's it's sort of refreshing in a little ways because it helps me sort of get a little better cadence throughout the year. Things kinda have gotten stacked up a little more than I wanted the first quarter. so this will kinda help spread some things out. and again it's just it's just the natural that that's just part of business ownership. Like if that if like Dalton: Mm-hmm. Chad Allen: I think if you really freaked out about that kind of thing, then this role probably isn't for you because that's that's going to happen. and Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: as as long as you can, you know get to this point you make enough connections you you can you can with you can weather a lot of those storms. But yeah that's kinda that's kinda the big thing we've got now. So bidding on a you know a couple large engagements and they're and getting a l lot pickier about what I wanna quote, who I wanna work with. Dalton: Hmm. Chad Allen: you you know, we I think we all know you should w work with people and types of businesses that you that you like or passionate about, whatever. that's harder to do when you're starting out or if you're buying a firm and you're trying to pay off debt, which is the route that I was Dalton: Mm. Chad Allen: that I was in previously. So you just make different decisions when you're in those positions. So now kinda having been released from that a little bit, you can you can make things that really are in your best interest or the best interest of the of the firm or your staff or your own work life balance, whatever you want it to be. So it's kinda it's kinda nice and it's it's been a little bit refreshing. So Dalton: I think I think that's such a good point that you made about you kinda almost have to be unflappable as a as a firm owner. You know, like you gotta be able to take 'cause there's it it it feels like I don't know if you guys agree with this or not, but it feels like as soon as you kinda roll through one of those punches, you know, you kinda come out on the back side of it and you're like, Okay, I kinda sorted this out. There's always another one. Right? Like it's not like you're in a heart it's just like that's just kind of life. Like there's always a problem in addition to the client work that's going on that you gotta solve and if if you have that personality where those things ruffle your feathers a lot or you get really worked up when things don't go your way, it's like, man, firm ownership may may not be for you because there's there's a ton of good, but there's also like you gotta be able to weather those storms and think critically and kind of see the path through it all without getting too overwhelmed. Chris Hervochon: Think it's every business too. Every entrepreneur. Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Just general business advice. I mean it's all there's always gonna be something like that that's just super Dalton: Yeah. Yep. Chad Allen: I think the the smaller you are, the more amplified it is too, because you don't have the Dalton: Right. Chris Hervochon: Mm-hmm. Chad Allen: the cushion to to lean back on and and everybody else to help kinda help absorb things. Like if if we lose we lost a if we lose a eighty thousand dollar client, that's eighty thousand out of my po I'm not I'm not letting anybody Dalton: It's significant. Yeah. Chad Allen: go, so that's that's eighty grand that that we that we don't that I don't have. So it just comes out of the profit line. Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Those are membership dues right there. Chad Allen: Yeah. Not not in my club, maybe yours, but Chris Hervochon: Dalton, what about you? What's going on in your firm? Dalton: Yeah, we just kind of finished up I'll say reimagining our ten forty process. so we've been longtime safe send users. and just like every year they're on our list of like, I don't love you know, they do the back end of that ten forty process really well. The return delivery, the signing, the reminders, the payment stuff. That's all really good. But the front end, the the data gathering, collection, organizer, all that kind of stuff, they're just not good enough, I don't think. It's it's not a good enough client experience that I wanna offer. And so we really took some time to like reimagine that process and we came up with a solution where we like don't need to use them at all. And the the beauty of it is it's we're probably gonna spend fifteen thousand dollars per year less in the solution and I think offer a better client experience, better retention of data, less like ambiguity of like decision fatigue. Do I need to move this to the next phase or not? Because it's just gonna be all all encompassed in our workflow. so I'm super excited for it. It's something that we've been kinda like dreaming about for a long time and I was I was gonna try to to deploy some some agents and maybe vibe code some of my own stuff and then my team was like, I don't think that would solve the problem our bigger problem and so we kind of just like put my resources to that and yeah, I'm excited for it. I think it's gonna be we have like our own Created questionnaire stuff that we're gonna work through and just we use carbon for our workflow, so everything's just gonna live there. It's all gonna be in one place. Our clients only have to go to one spot. it should just be a much cleaner, simpler client experience for us. and reducing our cost by 15 grand, which that's dudes. Chris Hervochon: Mm. That's membership dues too, yeah. Dalton: yeah, that's been that's for sure membership dues. And that's every year, right? So there we go. Yeah, penciled it in. Yeah, so that that's been a huge win. It's it's hard when you make changes. I don't know if you guys feel this way. When you make changes at a firm, there's often the like, I think these two, three, four people are really gonna be happy about it. And I think these two, three, four people are really gonna be like not happy about it. but this is one where everybody seemed to be like pretty content with it. So, yeah, yeah, we'll see how it plays out. You ask me again in a year from now, I'll tell you it was the worst decision ever or yeah, no, we're crushing. But what about you, Chris? What what's what's occupying your Your mental capacity. Chris Hervochon: Yeah, two things. One's AI. Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: so we've rolled out like local AI in our firm. And just trying to figure out and trying to figure out what models to use, when to use it, what that looks like. Training the team is the biggest thing. just trying Dalton: Okay. Chris Hervochon: to get them on board and get them to understand like AI can do this, but it can't do that. And Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: you know, how to use it, when to use it, that sort of stuff. So we've been doing weekly Dalton: What Chris Hervochon: training. Dalton: for for those novice AI folk, what's local AI? You give a su super quick rundown of that? Chris Hervochon: So basically you take an open source model and then you run it on hardware that is local to you. So it doesn't go out to the internet and then run whatever your prompt is and then come back. It stays local to you. So that solves a lot of like the data security and other issues around that that we have at CPAs. So I've been Dalton: Yep. Chris Hervochon: playing around with that. we're using only US based models, which is tricky because they're not as good as some of the Other models that are out there. And then just the amount of compute that you need. That's the one thing that I've learned is just it's you need a lot of compute to do it well and to be able to share it and stuff stuff like that. So it's not only just teaching the team here's what to use, how to use it, all that stuff. It's trying to figure out the actual infrastructure that works inside of our firm. So that's been a little bit tricky. Now, somewhat related to AI, what we've actually seen a lot of recently is fraud. And so that is Extremely concerning. So what I mean by that is a lot of phishing, very sophisticated fraud schemes. I had a client that got caught up in one last week. Dalton: Mm. Chris Hervochon: Not great. we've just seen a lot of it. We're like it used to be maybe one a year, maybe. Now it's like every week. You know, it's some client Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: with something. and, you know, based on what I'm reading is that those schemes are just gonna get better and they're gonna get more persistent. They're much easier to roll out. for like obviously with AI. So Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: that's a concern. So training the team on that, what to look for, training clients on that, what to look for, how to deal with it, that's Dalton: Yep, yep. Chad Allen: Mm-hmm. Chris Hervochon: been that's been taking up more time than I wish it would. And I'm guessing that it's gonna be a lot more time going forward too, which is Dalton: Yeah, I I I've been experiencing that for sure as well. I had I'm usually I feel like I'm pretty good at like, this is fraud, like this is a joke. And and I've gotten a few lately where it's like instead of just like the cold email, it's like it's a whole chain. So they've gotten way smarter of like Chris Hervochon: Mm-hmm. Yep. Dalton: they're like responding to a chain and so you go through and you can see like, like it's all the back and forth. It's like, that's kind of smart, can still tell it's fraud and then I actually had one where it was it ended up being a legitimate client. But she emailed me and she was like, Hey, I do this entertainment stuff. I've got an entertainment industry background. So they like found me online. I did I didn't connect those dots. So I've got all this songwriting stuff, and I've also got this LLC that I formed that we're doing this like historical reproduction of this thing. So we've been getting donations for it. It's like all my flags are going off. You're mentioning you got an LLC out Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: of state. You got entertain like all these things, you're you're hitting stuff off my website. So like you're clearly like it's an AI. And then she called us and I was like, Googling her, trying to like LinkedIn, right? Find her. I was like, is this like one of those AI voice things? And then so we Chad Allen: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: No way. She called you? Dalton: Yes, yeah. Trying to get in touch with Chris Hervochon: That's bananas. Dalton: our office. I know. So I was Chad Allen: Like on the phone? Dalton: like, on the phone. Yeah, well, not me. I mean our admin. But yeah, called our office. Chris Hervochon: Well, I mean that's pretty advanced. Dalton: It is, right? So I was like, is this is this like an AI voice thing? And so I found her on LinkedIn. I was like, I think this is a real human. It just like, but like everything she was saying, like verbatim off my website, formed an out-of-state LLC. Need help with these things, getting this mutt funding. And I was like, these are like all the flags going off of fraud. And I was like, I didn't even respond. And then my admin's like, we got a call from this person. She said she emailed you. And then we told her, like, sorry, we only take clients by referral. You weren't referred by anybody. And then she sent like a scathing email about like how we should have put that on our website and stuff. And I was like, This feels like it was a real human. And I'm like, everything about it was like fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud. The just the most bizarre experience. Chris Hervochon: Yeah, what a time to be alive. Dalton: Yeah, so to your point, right, it's it's getting so hard. Even the real people I'm thinking are fraud now. Right? Because she probably Chris Hervochon: Yeah. Dalton: used AI to write the email. You know, and she probably used AI to like find me. And so it's like it's getting so hard to figure out is this a real human sending this stuff or is this just a bot that's trying to scan me? Chad Allen: I think the answer here is just don't take any more clients and just let's just play golf instead. Like just yeah, Dalton: Yeah. Just retire. Sail off, yeah. Chad Allen: just just just stop. Chris Hervochon: Yeah. That's our move. Dalton: Yeah. So if anybody wants to fund that and they're listening, please reach out. We would love to entertain any offers. Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: Any and all offers. Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Sure. Sure. Dalton: Do some weird stuff for free golf. Chad Allen: No unreasonable offer will be rejected. Dalton: All right, so I want to move us forward to our debit or credit segment here. So this is really like a buy or sell. So I'll introduce a topic to you, a question. Debit we're gonna say we're gonna buy that. Credit we're gonna say we're gonna sell that. I think that lines up with accounting. Chad beer maybe the one to say if that does or not. We'll say. You're purchasing it, so you're buying debit. I don't know, credit sell. Who knows? We're gonna figure it out. Yeah. Debit buy, credit sell, Chad Allen: I mean r yeah. We're talking about assets or revenues, I don't Chris Hervochon: Yeah, Chad's the auditor. Revenues credit. Yeah. We're not sure we're doing. Yep. That's episode two. Dalton: we're gonna go with that. all right, so here's the first one. Hourly billing should be dead in the CPA profession. Debit by that. Chad Allen: Mostly debit. Mostly no. Chris Hervochon: What does it even mean? Dalton: Yeah, what does that mean? Scenario based? Chad Allen: I mean there's somet I mean there's some stuff that I do that I'm like I don't even I don't I well there's some stuff that I do I'm like I don't even know how to quote you a fee for this and I promise you I'm not gonna take a bath so i well it those are pretty rare. Generally speaking, debit. Yeah. I don't I don't think hourly rates a good way to especially especially if you're adopting tech and AI and things like that. Dalton: Yeah, I'm I'm dead too. I haven't tracked my time in five years. Okay, no quest next one. working sixty plus hour weeks during busy season is a manage is a management failure, not a requirement of the profession. Chad Allen: Are you talking about for us or for the staff? Dalton: CPA firms as a whole. Everyb everybody in the firm. You can't just po push it Chad Allen: I don't yeah. Dalton: to your cronies. For me, debit. For them, credit. Chad Allen: Yeah, no no no. No, I meant the other way. Like I I work sixty but I don't want anybody else doing it, so Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: that Dalton: Debbie so you agree? Yeah, you're like, I'm just not managing well. Okay. Chad Allen: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Dalton: All right. Yeah, I'm debit too. I think I think if that's the requirement, then we we we miss something. We gotta bill more or get less clients or fire the bad ones or something. all right, this one I I'm I'm I'm interested to hear what your take is because I went back and forth a bunch of times. emails should no longer be the primary way CPA firms communicate with clients. Yeah, right? Yeah, this was my response. Chad Allen: Primary way. Dalton: should no longer be the primary way. Chad Allen: I think it's dependent on Chris Hervochon: Primary wave for what? Dalton: Just communication, general client communication. So basically if you if you're crediting, if you're no, if you're debiting that, if you're buying that, that it should no longer be the primary way, you would think this is the alternate alternative, right? Like this is a better way and it should be the primary way. Chad Allen: I don't know. I still I still like email. I like that it is You know, I like being able to send and receive information on my own schedule, non non-synchronous, is that what they call that? I like if you're Chris Hervochon: Asynchronous. Chad Allen: if you're talking Acer, yeah, whatever. Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Ha ha ha. Chad Allen: if if the alternative is is like phone calls, scheduling phone calls and meetings and things like that, like those are important. I think you still have to do those. You they need to know they're dealing with a human. at the primary like the meat and potatoes of when we're doing a lot of stuff. I I still lean on email pretty heavily, but I I definitely would agree that it gets overused in some instances and we Dalton: Mm. Chad Allen: and we would be better off adding that human element, whether that is in person meetings or like a video recording a li a a loom video or whatever to to walk through Dalton: Mm. Chad Allen: some things. I think a lot of that stuff is a little closer to a personal touch than than just firing off emails. So I'm I'm Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: sharply in the middle, but I don't know I don't know that it should be replaced personally. Dalton: S sounds like sounds like leaning credit. Leaning selling that. Chad Allen: Yeah. Yeah. Dalton: What about you, Chris? Chris Hervochon: If if I had to live somewhere in this question, I would say that some form of video is best, whether it's Zoom or Google Meet or Loom or something. I think that that's a superior way to communicate. Like if it's not gonna be in person, right? But you know, what I'm doing is advisory and cas and and stuff like that. So I would much rather be on Zoom when I'm walking through financials than be in person. I think the human the human to human interaction is like the most important thing and it's gonna be more valuable going forward because of AI and you know what's Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: real, what's fake and all and you know all that stuff. So the human to human thing, yes, but I would much rather be on Zoom when I'm walking through financials so I can just click around screens and and all that sort of stuff than be in person with like paper and don't love that. So I don't I Dalton: Mm-hmm. Chris Hervochon: guess I'm sharply in the middle also, whatever that means. Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, this is this was the hardest one for me as well. I think I'm I'm also including we use carbon for our practice management. They have like a chat feature. I'm including that as email, right? Like it's it's not technically email, but like I'm I'm fi saying it is, it's messaging. I agree there's so many more efficiencies and in clarity through video. but at the same time like if I get on a call with somebody that I could answer a question in fifteen seconds on an email It's a minimum ten minute call, right? Like it's it's gonna take hell, how's it going? Right, which those things matter and they are important. but sometimes you can't do that for every fifteen second question, right? So, yeah, I waffled on this one a ton. I think I think I am still leaning I would credit this one. I'm still leaning email is best. or primary, prime maybe not best, but primary. Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: but I do agree with Chris that best is probably some sort of video on screen I can show you what I'm talking about, I can talk through it. you can see, you can pause and ask a question right in that moment. I do agree that would be best and most efficient, but I don't know if that's the most common use. So yeah. Sounds like we're all kinda noncommittal. Chad Allen: Yeah. I I for sure I for sure agree it's best. I th I I think sched scheduling those things would would drain me personally. That's th I think that's my my hold up. I think I th I would agree though that best if we're talking about Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: the best way to do one individual topic or meeting is probably not by email, but the totality of what I do in a day, Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: like I don't wanna turn those all into meetings. Dalton: Right. That'd be like having to go play a course and eating a tea timer. What's the point? Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: Right? Chad Allen: That's how the that's how the commoners do it, you know? I don't Chris Hervochon: To check. Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: Sure. Dalton: Alright, let's think let's focus the life outside the office for a little bit. We got Labor Day weekend coming up here. You guys got any plans? Anything you're looking forward to? Vacation, kid stuff, family stuff, hobby, anything going on? Chad Allen: Yeah, we got we got one of each of family stuff. My son's first football game of his of his senior years on Friday and then we've a a a big group that we do a camp out with and have for s I don't ten years probably since our our kids were little. So we'll do that through the weekend and I think Dalton: Nice. Chad Allen: as luck would have it, I think it's gonna be like a hundred degrees so that, you know, who doesn't love tent camping when it's a hundred? But Yeah, that's our that's our plan. Yeah, right. Dalton: Sign me up. Sounds great. Chris Hervochon: Yeah, not that. I got really nothing going on. I'm gonna be slinging tax returns, I think, unfortunately, for that nine fifteen deadline. Dalton: Okay. Yeah. I'm a little nervous for that one too. I've I've got a few more we gotta get out, but we'll see. We'll see. Chris Hervochon: Yeah, I got some stragglers for sure. Dalton: We we're heading up to Big Bear Lake, which is up in the mountains. It's like six thousand feet elevation, gets up to like eighty five hundred. I'm doing a long weekend there Thursday through Monday. Bringing the pups and my folks. Kinda have a got a cabin right on the lake, so it should be a good time. Kinda last getaway before weather starts getting I mean, it's Southern California, it doesn't get that bad. But that should be good. But what's been a little concerning is we So I guess the ocean temperature is probably more what you're used to, Chris, where it's like our ocean water's up to like eighty degrees near LA. Chris Hervochon: Yeah. Bath up. Dalton: and yeah, and so and I guess there's some like storm brewing off of Baja, Mexico. And they're like, Chris Hervochon: Mm. Dalton: LA might get a hurricane. Like, well that would be fun. So we're a little concerned about that. It's probably one of those where it's like if you all got an earthquake, you'd be like, my gosh, and I'm like, it's fine. But we Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: get a hurricane and I'm like, you're like, it's fine. So yeah. No, yeah. Chris Hervochon: Hurricanes are weird, man. Like don't sleep on those. Yep, not super great. Dalton: So I don't know if being up in the mountains is like better or worse. I don't know. What we're you don't have mountains where you are where the hurricanes come through. So I mean, your mountains are like foothills. Chris Hervochon: No, but one of the guys I played yeah, we don't have mountains here. It's it's called the low country for a reason. But one of the guys I played Dalton: Yeah. Chris Hervochon: with last week, he was living in Asheville, North Carolina when Hurricane Helene came Dalton: Mm. Chris Hervochon: through. So th yeah, and like I've been there since Helene came through. So yeah, being in the mountains all that's like exhibit A of hey, maybe it's you know, it's not always all that great. No, Dalton: Maybe maybe not not a good idea. Yeah. Chris Hervochon: I mean it depend look, depends on the storm, depends how comes in. You know, the thing to worry about with hurricanes is like storm surge and the tornadoes that come with them. Or not with the Dalton: Okay. Chris Hervochon: storm surge, but the tornadoes that come with a hurricane. So just depends. Depends Dalton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so well Chris Hervochon: on what side you are and all that stuff. Dalton: Right. Yeah, so we'll watch all that and may may cut our trip short, 'cause I don't want to be stranded up there with nothing. I'd rather be home and stranded than Chad Allen: Yeah. Dalton: there and stranded. Chris Hervochon: Mm-hmm. Dalton: yeah. So all right, let's let's get back to these beers. So we got our rating, let me go over it so we can have some consistency here. So we got it's one through ten. Decimal points are encouraged, so you could do a five point four, for example. a one or a two. This is your no thanks. You're not drinking this thing Worst case scenario, somebody walks up to you and hands you one and then awkwardly stands in front of you and won't leave and you feel compelled that you have to take a sip, right? Like that's the only reason you're drinking this thing. Like you are not you're not touching it unless somebody that you were trying to impress is giving it to you and wanting you to drink it. three and four, that's Chris Hervochon: Like in college. Dalton: yeah, there you go. Sure. Three and four, that's your hey, if it's free, sure, I guess, I'll probably finish it. I don't really like it, but I didn't pay for it, so it's fine. five and six, these are solid. You know, yeah, I drink it again. I'm I I may not choose it as my first choice at the grocery store or at a restaurant, but it'd be serviceable, right? Like I'd I'd I'd I'd have another one. Seven and eight, these are your like, yeah, these are my staples, right? Like I see the grocery store, it's like, Yep, I'm gonna get that. see it on a menu at a restaurant, you're like, yeah, I know I'm having that. These are like all all day, any any time beer, right? Like always appropriate. Enjoy and then nine and ten, these are the holy grails. These are your like I don't know how they made this thing taste so good. Right? Like how how how did they do this? if you ever see it, you're ordering it, right? Like it this is like you're you're gonna remember it by name, by by logo, can, all that kind of stuff. So, Yeah, so so I'll ask you for your score. Again, decimal points are good. maybe an explanation of why it didn't get higher or why it wasn't lower. and then maybe a a a one off would you buy it again? Chad, how about you? We'll start with you. Chad Allen: I'm gonna I'm gonna give the Juice Nova a s solid a s a six point eight. it's good, it's Dalton: Okay. Chad Allen: not super complex, it's pretty it's pretty you kinda gotta be in the mood for fruit IPAs and then it doesn't really offer much else. It's it's not gonna hit you with any sort of after or anything. Dalton: Okay. Chad Allen: It's it's pretty much this is what we do. And if you don't like that you can go to hell. So it's Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: I I would I would I would pr I would have another one. I just opened the second so that tells you enough that I I liked Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: it enough anyway. So So I I'd I'd buy it again a six Dalton: Ha ha ha. Chris Hervochon: It feels like it should be in the seven range. Chad Allen: No, I mean I've already I've already bought it. I'm not I didn't drive out and get a second one. But yeah, I'd I'd Dalton: Yeah. Chad Allen: I'd I'd Chris Hervochon: Mm-hmm. Chad Allen: do it again. It's it's pretty good. It's it's pretty good. But it you gotta be in the mood for these things. and and usually one is probably good. But yeah. So I do it again. Yeah. Dalton: Chris, how about you? Chris Hervochon: Alright, so I got the heady topper from The Alchemist. And I would say I don't want to be a one upper, so I would say it's a s it's a six eight. I was gonna go six nine until Chad said six eight. Dalton: Okay. Chris Hervochon: I think it's I think it's a six eight. I don't want another one, to be hon right now anyway, to be honest. Chad Allen: You don't? Chris Hervochon: I don't think so. No. but it's good. It's a good beer. It's solid. It falls in that solid category. Dalton: Nice. Yeah, so I've got Harlan Brewing, Hazy IPA. You know, when I saw the hops I really didn't it's better than I thought it would be. I think I would give it I'm gonna go six two. So it is solid. I'd have another one. If I had another one here, I don't. I would have it. Still got a little bit of that funky taste that I don't love. Leaves your your mouth just kind of earthy almost. I don't know how to describe it. kinda funky, Chris Hervochon: Hmm. Yep. Chad Allen: yeah. Dalton: right? Yeah. So just a little bit of Chris Hervochon: Yep, got it. Dalton: Yeah, so not it's solid though. I mean, i it's better than I thought it was gonna be. would I buy it again? Probably not. Probably not. There's a lot of good beer. Probably wouldn't buy it again. But if it was on a menu and I didn't see anything else, yeah, I'd probably I'd I'd probably order it at a at a restaurant if there was nothing else. so we'll we'll log all these, we'll get them kind of tracked, and we'll have an ongoing leaderboard, so we'll we'll get those into the the Excel spreadsheet of of course as CPAs. We gotta we gotta have an Excel for those. Chad Allen: Ha ha ha. Dalton: or have ChatGPT make one for us or something. Chris Hervochon: Days. Dalton: Alright, anybody got any upcoming rounds they're excited for? Golf, anything going on golf specific that we're next week or so? Chris Hervochon: Two weeks I'm print playing in a pro official. So the golf pro from because I'm I'm Dalton: Wow. Chris Hervochon: on the I'm on the board of my club, so technically an official, and then my golf pro. So we won that tournament, what's it two or three years ago? So we're going back trying to revenge whatever happened last year. Actually, I know what happened last year. It my fault. Dalton: Ha ha. Chris Hervochon: so we're we're doing that. I'm gonna be planning that in a couple weeks. Other than that, I'm just gonna be working on fixing that hook. Dalton: Chad, you got anything coming up? Chad Allen: Yeah, nothing nothing nothing wild for me. Just try to try to get out a couple of times of the club but I got nothing like that going on for sure. Nope there's no pros that wanna play with me, so that's it's just me out there. Dalton: Yeah, I've got I've got that par three local course. That'll be my first like golf outing other than a range or top golf or something just off mats. So trying not to hurt myself. That's that's priority number one. Gonna club up every hole and swing easy and try to get it. Try to get it somewhere near the green and see how we do. But excited for that. I've been I've been waiting for that for six weeks. I don't know. Chad Allen: Yeah, it's been a while. Dalton: I don't know if I played since we all played in Vegas in June. So that was early June. It's late August now. So it's Chris Hervochon: In a minute. Yeah. Dalton: it's been it's been a minute. So I definitely have that age, so I'm excited to get out there. Awesome. Well that's episode one of RDTFM. We got three CPAs, some beer, a lot of golf talk, and and somehow much like our golf game, we managed to keep things at least somewhat right down the middle. So hope you you guys will join us next time and until then we'll see ya.