speaker-0: Hello and welcome to the Make More Placements podcast. Today we're going to be talking about five business development rules every recruitment and search business owner needs to know to grow in 2026. If you're watching this on LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook Live, remember to like and comment. Let us know where you're listening from. Let us know you're enjoying the show. Any questions you've got as well, you can put in the comments. We will get back to you. As always, this episode is sponsored by placementbox.io. ⁓ It's an all-in-one business development tool built specifically for recruitment and search and designing. So if you want more clients, head over to placementbox.io and see what they've got going on there. Yeah, today we're going to be talking about five business development rules every recruitment and search designer needs to know to grow in 2026. Again, we've been speaking to a lot of recruiters over last few weeks, all of the last year really. And one of the big, I guess, big hurdles, big challenges they have is everyone wants to get more clients, not just more, but better quality clients. And I think one of the Mistakes that I see every single year is that recruiters still sort of work off old patterns, right? So it's a thing we talk about a lot but Terry you've got what? What's 30, 40 years? ⁓

speaker-1: Not quite that old yet.

speaker-0: How many years is it? gotta be. I'm sort of at 15 now. It's more than that.

speaker-1: Yeah, so it's all joking apart. It's nearly 30 years in the recruitment industry.

speaker-0: Yeah, 30 years of criminal experience. I've got about 15, right? And even today, Terry, I see people using business development, philosophies, tactics, rules that were big in the olden days, in your time.

speaker-1: Yeah, I do as well, and it never ceases to amaze

speaker-0: ⁓ I like how you let the the olden days come in come in in past

speaker-1: I'm not going to indulge you, I'm going to leave.

speaker-0: But yeah, but yeah, in all seriousness, I see people using the same tactics, recgies and what I'm also philosophies back then. ⁓ but this technology moves so quick business, when I'm so quick clients or potential clients get, get more, guess, ⁓ aware of what's out there, get more in tune to what's got there. have to adapt and you have to sort of shift. Also there's more, probably more competition now. ⁓ business, better than wife's than ever before. Right. Well, think again, back in the olden days, well, it was, no, it was just. It was just cold calling even maybe some door knocking. It was very limited options that you had. But now each one of your clients has been bombarded by, you know, emails, social media, whatever it is. So I think we need to, you know, always be looking to up in the game, step in the game. Terry, anything you'd add to that? Yeah.

speaker-1: And yeah, all joking apart, it was just after the first world war when I first entered recruitment. Yeah. But no, but all joking apart, the world's changed dramatically over the last 30 years. As you rightly said, I was given a role of decks and telephone and I was told to smile and dial to get business. And I did, and we all did by the way, wasn't unique. That's how we got business. And we used to, you know, the CV or the resume, we had to fax it over to the hiring manager. Then we had to pop it in the post because they... the fax copy would fade. And as you rightly said, it's fair to say that things have changed since then. We had no internet, we now had no mobile phone. But sadly, as you rightly said, there are recruiters today, know, they're doing exactly the same thing that I was doing 30 years ago. And they're complaining that it's not working. And they're surprised that it's not working. But seriously, using the role of this and relying on cold calling to get business is probably not going to serve you well. the other one is relying on your network. know, the amount of recruitment business earners I speak to say, for the last few years, I've just relied on my network, but you my network has shrunk. People have moved on. One or two clients have had a change of buyer, change of supplier, all these things that happen. And what that means is they haven't They haven't been sharpening their business development tools for want of a better word. So when they go back to business development, because they have to go back, they use the methods that, you know, I say I was using 30 years ago. We can't do that anymore. So there are some rules that if you just follow these rules, you almost guarantee success. And rule number one is business development must run without daily willpower. Because you know and I know that every morning we wake up and you go, today is going to be the day. I'm going to pick up that phone. I'm going to call five, 10, 20, 100 people. And you walk into office, you open up your computer and before you know, you're reading emails. Then you've gone into LinkedIn and you've gone down that wormhole of not just LinkedIn, but any social media platform before you know it, it's 11 o'clock. You then think, well, it's time for me to have a, have a coffee now. You then have your coffee and you come back to your desk and then there's some CVs or resumes on your desk. You've got to go through those. Then you remember a few candidates that you've got to, you've got to reach out to before you know it's three o'clock. And that intention of I'm going to make 50 calls today is gone. But here's what you say, nevermind. I'll do that tomorrow. You guess what? The same thing happens tomorrow. I'm relying on remembering or willpower to do it is a fastest way for your recruitment business to stall. And even as I'm saying this to you, some of you are nodding because you're already acknowledging that's exactly what you're doing. I'm not beating you up about it. You're not alone in doing it, but you need to be aware of what's going on. And you also know at some level intellectually that if you keep doing that, you're going to keep getting the same results, which are particularly good. But that's the problem with relying on business development on remembering to do it all willpower. Does that make sense, Drew?

speaker-0: Yeah, it does. makes perfect sense. And I think, I think this is probably one of the, like the biggest causes for me for feast and famine in, recruitment and search business. Cause it's, it's not to me, to me, mean, I love this, but it's my favorite part about, about the business, the industry. And for me, it's like, it's an, it's a non-negotiable, right? And when I say that, I don't mean it's not negotiable as in my willpower. mean, I mean that what you should be doing in your business is I'm setting up systems. So on the days you don't feel like it. On the days where you're not in the office on the day, you know, whatever it is, you're not there. Business development still happens, whether that's you've got a team doing it or you've got automation doing it. It needs to happen regardless. think anywhere in your business where, you know, like Terry said, it's down on daily motivation. There's going to be a time where you're not, you don't feel made motivated, right? I don't care how ambitious you are, how disciplined you are. There's going to be a time where you don't feel motivated. Right. And I think if your business development is relying on that. then it's going not get done. And if it doesn't get done, then you don't get as many clients as you want or don't get the quality of clients that you want. I think, Terry, you said, 100 % agree. It needs to be a consistent thing that isn't based on your daily willpower. It's based on the systems that you've built in the business.

speaker-1: Yeah. And we talked to them about, know, going to the gym and everything. If you look at somebody that's super fit, you know, perhaps got a fine physique and everything, you look at them and you say to them, well, how do you do that? And they said to you, well, I go to the gym and every time, you know, when they go to the gym, I do X, Y, Z. You need to appreciate it. wasn't because they went to the gym once and did it. It's because they did it over a period of time and they did it consistently. And this is exactly the same for business development. You can't send out a thousand emails ⁓ once a month and go, ⁓ this isn't working. That's not consistent being consistent. What we know with the top achievers, they're doing some, they're doing some, some parts of business development. In some cases, seven days a week, they will be posting on social media platforms seven days a week. They're reaching out through automation. ⁓ Five days a week, they're sending out emails. ⁓ They've got, they've brought in setters to make appointments for them, but they're doing something seven days a week because that's where the success comes from. comes from that, that consistent activity rather than, know, you don't brush your teeth once and say, right, I've got clean teeth now. You know, to have healthy teeth, you have to brush them every day. Business development is exactly the same.

speaker-0: No, 100%. Um, so that's rule number one. One number two is, is visibility beats outreach in, modern business development. So visibility beats outreach in most business development. And what we mean by that is that the way a lot of recruitment and search business owners reproach business development is, by doing outreach. And again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with outreach, the way that most outreach is structured is that we're, we're, we're hoping to hit someone on the right day on the right time with the right message. Right. And again, not saying don't do it, but it makes it, it makes it really difficult to I guess get that predictability because, we're limited the number of LinkedIn messages we can send. We're limited the number of emails we can send. Every outreach is limited to an extent, right? So we're limited there. What's a far better approach as well as that? So I'm again, not saying to replace outreach completely. I'm saying this is probably what's more is having the mindset that I want to be, you know, me as a recruitment business owner, I want to be the business that my ideal clients think of when they have a need, right? So we have to appreciate and accept that. For the vast majority of industries, most of your market will not be recruiting right now. They're not recruiting right now. But we also have to that they probably will in the future, right? So we've got lots of future buyers, but not remaining now buyers, right? We can't necessarily create demand. We can't create a need. we do know that need is going to come eventually. So all we want to do is put ourselves in a position that when that need comes, we are the first firm, first business that our ideal clients think of. think one of the areas right now, if you're not happy with the number of clients you got or the quality of clients you got. People often blame competitors, the market. I think for lot of recruiters, you're not even getting in a position to pitch your services. Your ideal clients don't know you exist. Your ideal prospects don't know you exist because you do not have that visibility. You're obscure. Right? You're nobody to them. You're no one to them. Right? So one of our first goals is we want to build systems, design content that gets us seen, gets us visible. Knowing that most people that see it won't have a need right now, but being consistent enough. and at a higher volume enough that when they do have a need, we are the first person that comes to the top of their mind. Terry, does that make sense?

speaker-1: It makes perfect sense. It reminds me of somebody, you know, I'm referring to based up in the north of England. He works within SAS and he recruits senior executives within SAS. And he generates as a solo recruiter just under a million a year. When I asked him what his key secret was, said, in his opinion, his success was down to the fact that he was seen as the go-to search firm within executive search within SAS. think about that. He was seen as the go-to and he said often what would happen is he would get emails and phone calls from hiring managers who he's never personally met before. He would say something like, I'm looking to recruit an executive at this level, would like to get your opinion or we're talking to a number of recruiters, we'd like you to put in a pitch for this. And he said, even putting in a proposal to recruit some this, he acknowledges that most of the time he doesn't get them. He said his success rate was about 20%, 20 to 30%. He said, but what was important, Terry, that he gets four of those requests a month every month. So he kind of knows he's going to get four requests. He's going to get at least one retained search every month, just from people that he's never met before. Because he acknowledges that when he was struggling before, most of his potential clients never heard of them. Let me repeat that. Most of his potential clients have never heard of him. And he says it to him that really struck a chord. And he said, I realized, Terry, that it had been in the industry for some time. 18 years or so, that it's very rare that a hiring manager gives you a call, sends you an email and says, I don't know who you are. I don't know what you do, but I'd like to talk to you about whether you could do some recruitment. He said, it doesn't happen. It's the only time he gets calls is from people that know who he is. So it's imperative that you've got that outreach going out all the time. I can give you a cast iron guarantee. The reason you haven't got the business that you want right now is because the majority of your potential clients have never heard of you. And if you've been in recruitment for any period of time, you know, it's highly unlikely that they're going to be calling you anytime soon if they've never heard of you. But you also know that some of your competitors are out there every single day in front of their potential clients. And Drew made a really good point. There are two types of hiring managers. The hiring managers that's hiring right now. But the problem is because they're hiring right now, they're talking to three or four of your competitors. They're probably giving the job order to three or four of your competitors. But the what we call the now hiring manager is a very small percentage, just about 10%. What it does mean is a bigger market, about 90 % of the market, your market right now are not hiring right now, but they will be hiring in the future. They're the ones you should be targeting now. So that when they're ready to pull the trigger, you're at the forefront of their mind. But you can't do that by being the best kept secret. You've got to raise your head above the powerful. You've got to let these guys know that that you're out there. I'll repeat, you haven't got the business that you want because the potential clients who could buy from you have never heard of you. And as long as that's the case, you're never going to get business from them.

speaker-0: And again, just as listen to this, if you want to get more visibility with your ideal clients, you go to makemoreplacements.com forward slash call. And there's a short video there about what we do, how we can help, ⁓ watch that. Yeah. And if it makes sense in a book, call with us. ⁓ but Terry, just to move on to number three, right? Number three is not all good, not all conversations are good conversations. the thought of the third, third, Royal one taken to 2026 is not all conversations are good conversations. ⁓ Terry again, what, what, what do we mean by this?

speaker-1: There's two here. One of the things that, and especially search firms and recruits who are kind of reluctant to do business development, they spend a lot of time talking to potential candidates. Here's the thinking. Yeah, but Terry, these potential candidates, one day they could become hiring managers. I'm not disputing that in the slightest, by the way. One day they could possibly become hiring managers. However, as they're not hiring managers right now, and you'll wait for them to get promoted to that level, you would be better off spending a lot more time with hiring manager, with actual hiring managers who they'll be hiring in the next year or so, rather than the future hiring managers to be hiring in next two or three years. I think it's a defense mechanism. If I'm talking to lots of candidates, I feel really busy and I think I'm doing some good here. And look, you will get some business from candidates, but you're more likely to get business from hiring managers. So that's the first example. And then you've got the other example. Not all clients are created equal. So some clients are going to say ridiculous things to you. Yeah, we want to work with you. We're going to pay you 8%. We're going to pay the invoice 120 days after the candidate started in all. And I'm going to extremes, but you kind of get the point. You don't have to bend over backwards to work with those kind of, uh, those type of clients as the owner of the business. You should decide who you work with when you work with them and what the fee should be. That should be your decision. And you should only work with clients that are prepared to, who value and respect you and are prepared to do that. But not all clients do. And some clients, know, treat recruiters like dirt, quite frankly, and make those ridiculous, you know, suggestions such as 10 % fees and paying you 120 days after the candidate starts. if the candidate leaves after 10 years, want a full refund. look, I'm going to extremes, but you get the point. So not all conversations are the right conversations to be had. Does that make sense to you?

speaker-0: It does make sense. I agree 100 % with you said. The other thing I'd add to that is, you're talking more about the people they speak to, speaking to the right people. I would add to that and say, even if you are speaking to the right people, it needs to be the right conversation. one of the things, one of the patterns I'm seeing a lot with recruiters and recruitment search concern is that they sort of forget the consultant part of their job title. They just become more order takers. that you will win a lot more business with a lot better clients if rather than we just taking orders, we consult. Right. And what I mean by that is sometimes that one example would be sometimes you'll speak to a hiring manager and it might be the right person might be the right client. And they say, look, you know what, we're not going to, we're not going to be hiring until, uh, let's say it's January now, right. We're not going be hiring until June, right. Six months out. So let's speak again in June. Right. And what we do as, recruitment and search presoners, we accept that, okay, we'll call you back in June. You call back in June. And then what's happened is other firms have got their first year and you've missed out on opportunity. Right. And really, what one example of that, what the higher manager might mean is that they want the candidate to start in June, not that they want to speak in June. Right. then you need to, you need to sort of future pace. Okay. If the candidate needs to start in June, when do we, when do you actually need to be speaking to the higher manager? Right. And you need to leave that conversation rather than accepting from them when that call needs to be. The other thing is that is when You and this, this happens a lot, right? You'll speak to hiring manager. He will tell you they're not recruiting, right? Let's say Terry, you, brought up someone who works in, in, in, in SAS, right? So let's say you work in SAS and again, it's, different from sector to sector, but this happens in every sector. You speak to a hiring manager. They say they're not recruiting. We don't have a need right now. As in, as in we don't have a need for that candidate. That might be true. What they do have a need for is the outcome that candidate provides. Right? So if I'm, I'm, if I'm in SAS and, uh, let's say I, I, I recruit, recruit salespeople. Um, I could speak to a hiring manager who says that I'm not, I'm not recruiting any sales, any, any, anyone right now, only sell people right now. But they, what they, what they all want and most of the time is, an increase in sales, right? They will, they will all want that. Right. So again, consulting means that, okay, Mr. Mrs. Hire manager, I understand you're not thinking about recruiting right now. That's fine. But you, said that you do have a problem with sales. You do want to increase sales or you do want to increase performance in this area. Okay. How about we have a conversation about how that can be done. Right. And in that conversation, we sell the idea. of recruitment or we sell the idea of the candidate when I'm not thinking of it, right? We want to be the people or the person that triggers that conversation where maybe they, maybe they can't make a buying decision right then, but maybe it triggers the thought in their head that, know, I need to go and speak to the board or I need to go and look at investment because actually we do need a person. I would think I need to hire next year, but actually it needs to be this year. Right. So we need to look at more consulting, not just recruitment. don't know if that makes sense or I'll put it across in right way.

speaker-1: You've made some great points here. I think the example you gave of, you know, here we are in January and the hiring month is we're not recruited until June. You then call back in June and it's now too late. I think that's a great example. And the other thing like that to that, you call somebody in January, let's say we're not recruited until June. You say you're going to call back in June. You call them back in June. They don't remember you if you haven't kept in touch with them. that's the problem. And by the way, they never admit that. They go, yeah, I'll remember the conversation. We're okay for the moment. The fact is they don't remember because you know, you have a 10 minute conversation with somebody in January. ⁓ Is it likely you're to remember that conversation unless it's really memorable? So it's a really good point there. And I think the other point you raised there Drew about, and this is also sometimes difficult hiring managers don't want recruiters or recruitment service. What they do want is the results that your service provides. So you as a recruiter, if I was a rep to rep guy and me saying to you as a recruiter, Have you got any vacancies for any consultants? Mercy would say, no, we haven't. But if I was to say to you, if I could introduce you to a consultant that could add 200,000 to your revenue over the next 12 months, is that something that would be of interest to you? Now they have got some interest in that. But you see the difference. I'm not talking about recruiting them. I'm talking about adding 200,000 to your revenue over the next 12 months. So the example that Drew gave, you if you're a VP of sales, If somebody could come, if you could find somebody that could add an additional half a million or a million to your revenue over 12 months, I suspect you could make room for him. Would that be about right? Well, yeah, of course it would be, but they weren't recruiting five minutes before that. I hope you see the difference there. It's the results that your service brings rather than the service itself. Nobody wants a recruiter, but they do want the results that your service brings to their business.

speaker-0: Yep. 100%. I'm done. That brings on to number four, which is authority has to come before setting. So authority has to come before setting. Terry, again, question for you, I'll just on this. Why does selling recruitment or getting a client or high rank to buy into your services? Why is it again, especially in 2026, why are they going to be so much harder or more of an uphill battle when that authority hasn't been established first?

speaker-1: Yeah. So if you say to a hundred percent of recruiters, what's your USP and then listen very carefully to a hundred recruiters, there isn't one quite frankly. You know, if I say to most recruiters, why would I work with you rather than your competitors? And they say, well, we care. We've got a lot of database. So off and look at from the hiring manager point of view. now they're thinking, well, all these guys are saying much the same thing. And so the only difference now is what's your fee or yours is 25 % yours is 23. I'll go with that guy. He's at 23 because it's a little bit cheaper. So all that happens is it becomes, um, it becomes a commodity because all the, the only difference is the price. It's a bit like buying petrol, you know, the petrol in a different petrol stations is very much the same. And if you've got a petri car, you're going to shop around and try and save a couple of P on the liter or whatever. There is no difference. However, if you're seen as the authority, the expert in your field, the fee, the investment becomes less of a conversation. What they want now, what they're buying into is expertise. fact, ⁓ studies suggest that fee becomes the number four on the list of important things.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Authority relationship and understanding the market are more important than fees. So the moment you can position yourself as an authority, and that's why, by the way, there's a saying in recruitment that the narrower your niche, the broader your appeal. So if you've got a defined niche, let's go back to SAS again, and you position yourself as the authority in that market, you'll have less resistance to your fees. Of course you're to get some hiring managers that say, I can get that cheaper down the road. Of course you can, Mr. or Mrs. manager, get it cheaper, but you can't get it from an expert. So it's up to you. Do you want the best, the authority in this market to do the work for you or do you want the cheapest recruiter? You let me know. Interestingly, the majority of hiring managers want the best, not the cheapest candidate. Yeah. But that's all to do with authority. Anything to add to

speaker-0: no, not really. mean, I agree 100 % what you said. think, ⁓ more and more, ⁓ authority is important. I think this links back to like the visibility thing we saying earlier, like you build visibility by, with that authority. It happens simultaneously because the way you get visibility is, is by, you know, having that omnipresence on multiple platforms, but, I'm putting your, the right content in front of the right people. And it's that content that builds authority simultaneously. So I think if you're doing, if you're, if you're doing that anyway, you're sort of tackling the visibility thing. And the content's good. You're going to get that authority, right? You want, you know, I said earlier that you want to be the first person at the hiring manager to think so when they're ready to buy, but you want that thought to be like, these guys are the best at this. These guys, I've seen these videos, I've seen this, this, this, this LinkedIn post, whatever, where these guys have, to me, the hiring manager demonstrated to me, they know exactly what I need. They know exactly what they're talking about. I'm going to go to them first. And I think once you've got that luxury, he the fee, the fee becomes easier. We can start landing more, it screws you around retained deals. Cause if, if you're the authority, why do I want to... Why do I need to speak to, you know, five, six, 10 other recruiters? Why do I need that? Why do I, why do I need to dilute the message like that? What, and if you're the authority, what's my issue with paying you upfront? I I believe you're going to deliver. So once we have that, it becomes so much easier to sort of get that, that growth that we're talking about.

speaker-1: That's a really good point. In fact, Drew, you won the call yesterday with some of our clients. Some of our clients do podcasts where they, so one example, one of our clients, works in manufacturing in North America. So he does a podcast where he's interviewing CEOs within manufacturing. So he does a podcast, he does a live podcast and he invites other CEOs. So he'll get 120, 200 CEOs within manufacturing coming along to listen to him interview another CEO. about their journey to becoming a CEO within manufacturing. Can you see how that enhances his credibility and authority? And the other advantage there, rather than selling one-to-one selling, he's now ⁓ positioning himself as authority to 200 potential clients. So when the client says to him, why would I work with you rather than your competitors? He positions himself, I'm the expert. I interview CEOs within manufacturing every week in my weekly podcast. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, I think it's something that's really underestimated. And here's something worth considering by the way. If you get reluctance from a hiring manager, here's a question that they're asking, but they don't verbalize. What if I get this decision wrong? Yeah, we all do that. If we're going to buy something of any value, you want to make sure you're making the right decision. Now I can work with this guy who called called me and says he can do what he says he can do. Or this other guy that I see all over LinkedIn and I get his regular. newsletter and I get it and listen to his podcast and I get his emails where he's not selling me anything, but he's giving me more content, ⁓ high value content on a regular basis. It takes away that doubt then. I trust this person, this recruiter who I've never met before, but I see a lot of the content as opposed to this other guy. He just cold called me in. Quite frankly, I just don't know. And as a buyer, that's always going through our mind. What if I get this wrong? And you want to take away that doubt. by providing authority ⁓ or position yourself as an authority in your market. Anything to add to that, Drew?

speaker-0: No, understand. agree. Yeah. I think some really good points. So again, just to recap on that, authority has to come before selling. Number five is business development should make you pettier, not busier. Business development should make you pettier, not busier. Just on this, think one of the, I guess, thoughts that a lot of critters have is they want, and they only think in this, that they want more clients, right? I want more clients so I can hit my goals. And yes. It might, you might be at a stage in your business where you want more volume, but simultaneously to that, we need to improve the quality of client that you have. Right. And that means that could mean the fee is higher. It could mean the quality means that they disrespect you more. It could mean that they're more, you get more exclusive clients rather than, you know, needing 10 job orders to fill five. You give this, you just work in five exclusive job orders. So you actually less clients, but you're making the same money. Um, could be retained, they're paying you upfront. Could, could be a whole number of. sort of elements that make them higher quality. if we're, if we're getting business development right and we're doing business development for the right reasons, ⁓ you know, going back to visibility, going back to authority, going back to all the things that we spoke about, it's not just about, get more volume, let's get to, let's get more clients, let's get more sales calls. It's so that actually rather than having one, two sales calls a week, all right, I can have 10 and rather than when those two sales calls, they say, look, you know, we don't want to pay your fee. I feel like, you know what, if I don't accept this, I don't know where my next piece of business is coming from or ⁓ you know, I don't think I'm gonna hire this. We've got 10 others though. I can say, Mr. Mrs. Heimann, you're not willing to pay the fee or you're not willing to go retained, but this, this client is right. So if I'm, if I'm going to retain with them, it wouldn't be fair if I'm going to be continuing with you. Does it make any sense to me? I'm not going to give as much time to your job order when these people are paying me upfront to dedicate and commit to it. When you're looking for the same type of candidate, it doesn't make any sense. Right. So we can now start to be pittier, more choosy. and across the board up the quality of clients that we're working with, which one, think makes your role as a business owner more enjoyable. If you enjoy the people you work with, you're going to enjoy the role well. It makes your business more profitable, which is again, very, very important, which again, obviously links to the enjoyable. But if we're not having to work with 10 clients to fill five job orders, we can work with five to fill five. You've halved the work and we'll be the same amount of results. That's assuming the fees are the same. If the fee's higher, we're getting more profit for that as well, right? So again, across the board, think for mental health, personal health, enjoyment, I ⁓ want you to put a lot of time and energy and focus and thought into the quality of client, not just the volume of client. Terry, anything you'd like to add?

speaker-1: I think this particular subject is so ⁓ underestimated and full disclosure is when I own my own recruitment business, I work with some clients who were an absolute joy to work with. And when they called me and I saw their number on my mobile, you know, I'd smile and I'd look forward to talking to them. But I also work with some clients who are nothing but a pain in the ass. There's no other word for it. They would, they quite frankly piss and moan about everything. The weather would be lousy and I would be held responsible for it. And at the time, I was working with the coach at the time. And I just say, it really gets me down. And I'm not enjoying what I'm doing when I deal with these clients who do nothing but moan and complain about my fees and everything else. I remember him saying, but that's your choice. You're choosing to work with them. So you can complain about it as much as you want, Terry, but you need to look at it and acknowledge that you've made that decision. You don't have to work with them. I would counter that the same, but I need the business. I've got to work with it. His idea was you don't, you decide who you work with. Once you can get your head around that, ⁓ was such a release, a relief rather to know that actually I chose who I worked with. It's liberating. It liberated, that's the word. Yeah. And I didn't have to work with those lousy clients who were a pain in the arse, who would take three months to pay an invoice. who would always try and screw you down the fees, who one client, we agreed the fee before we started on the work. They then made an offer and then they said, we can't pay you that fee now, we need to reduce the fee. And I, which I thought was so underhand. I didn't complain about that all day. That was my choice to work with them. You decide, we talked about it before, you should be deciding who you work with, when you work with them and what the fee is. And as Drew said, it is so liberating. when you make that decision. And if you're not making that decision, it drains your confidence and drains your energy. If you're working with loyalty clients and if you've been there, you'll know exactly what I mean. But when you're working with clients who are a joy who say, Hey, listen, how about meeting up for a beer or going for a meal? And you go love to, because you enjoy their company. It's completely different. I don't want to say that yet. It has to be that couple of the relationship, but you certainly have to enjoy working with them. And if you're not enjoying working with them, you really shouldn't be working with them. Anything to add to that, Drew?

speaker-0: Now that's it. Yeah. Agree. A hundred percent. Again, if you want to help get some better quality clients, we go to make more placements.com forward slash call. There's a short video there that explains a bit more about what we do, how we help, how we help recruitment search designers get more clients, get higher fees, more attainment exclusive deals. ⁓ have watched that video. And then if you, if it sounds interesting, you can take the next steps. ⁓ that's it for today, Terry again, thank you for your input. ⁓

speaker-1: Thank you, Drew. It's been good. listen, if you've enjoyed this, tell your friends and colleagues in the industry. If you haven't enjoyed it, let me know. Let's see what we can do. Seriously, until next time, take care, take action, be relentless.