Matthew: Hey everybody, welcome back to Uncles in Law. The summer break is finally over. The regular scheduling has begun. We've been gone, but we're back. I'm Matt. I'm Michael. I'm Steve. ⁓ You guys remember in alphabetical order. I love it. It's like riding a bike. We would have been back last week, but Matt doesn't respond to texts. ⁓ there was no world where I could have recorded last week. It just was like I had too many other terrible things to be doing to squeeze this in. And then when I finally saw Steve's message I was like, Well, it's Thursday, so that's out of I mean, it's just what do we do? We'll just we'll just kick it. I like to kick the can in life. I don't know if you guys are I don't how you guys feel about can kicking, but I'm like pro can kicking. I'm a big can kicker. Big can kicker. Yeah. I feel like Steve, you might be the least can kicky of all of us. Yeah. There are some things I I I guess it's it's it's topic specific for me. Like, you know, some some paperwork I need to do that I have no interest in doing, I'm kicking that can all the way down the road. ⁓ okay. Well that's got something. But you're also married to the least can kicking person ever. Yeah, Karen's Karen's car procrastination's not really Karen's ⁓ defining characteristic. Yeah. Yeah. What is that what is that like what is that like? I mean I I just like I envy that. I envy the feeling that must happen in in a in a type A's brain to go. But here's the pro let's do it. I mean the problem is is that like yes, like there's value in that, but it also can like drive you absolutely crazy because relaxing becomes very difficult. Mm-hmm. Is there world where like you could schedule in relaxing? I've tried I've literal I have literally tried. I have I have tried to calendar like, you know, decompression time or you know just like bonus time. You know what happens? Tell me. It doesn't work. Okay. All right. It it just it doesn't work. It does not work. I I have to like manu I have to like accidentally encounter the decompression time. Mm-hmm. That's interesting. Like it's so it's so w vastly different out here in the sense of like I haven't had an actual job and I'm I'm gonna go out on a limb and say four years now. and the idea of scheduling things with people, like people are always like, Well can you schedule a I'm like, Yeah, I'm like free always. Like what the what do you need? Like I'm also But then there are weeks like last week where I had to do I had to do like six or seven podcasts and there yeah and they're starting to ⁓ Michael, that's why that's why he didn't write back to us. Yeah, I know. Because because we're podcast number eight, Steve. Well, it's not that. It's like the other podcast I was doing took like three hours to do podcasts. Podcast number eight, episode title. I had to like do a four hour podcast on the puppet episode of Strange New Worlds. ⁓ which I can't even begin to describe as how Why did that require four hours? bud you I had to unpack a lot there. You know? As a television writer, I was insulted. As a Star Trek fan, I was insulted. As a fan of the Muppets, I was also insulted. They did none of it correctly. ⁓ But anyway, go listen to that if you want to, kids. ⁓ I feel I feel like I feel I feel like that was a pretty pithy summation of of a four hour podcast. Yeah. Well, you know, I had to get into each one. Plus, you know, it's a lot of a lot of ⁓ we we hear a lot of opinions from from folks who write in. ⁓ but anyway. The point is. But your Yeah. Your old job was very ⁓ deadline driven. Like you you couldn't just be like, ⁓ I'm I'm gonna do this script next week. Yeah, a thousand percent. Like as a as a writer, you give me a deadline, I'll be happy to get there. Will I start in a reasonable time? Right. No. But will you have it when I say you're gonna have it? Yeah, you'll have it. Right. ⁓ you know, like we would go when on Goldbergs when we would get sent off on script, the writer whose sh episode it was would be banished from the office to go write. Yep. And we'd usually get five. working days to write. ⁓ and I cannot tell you how many times none of us would start until the day before to send the draft in. it just like you know, just the idea Yeah, but d yeah, and and like when I did live T V on Attack of the Show and it was live. So like you had to get shit done. ⁓ no problem. I can do that. As long as you tell me when it needs to get done by but you can't have this like amorphous like we should probably record an episode. Yeah. Yeah. I hear ya. And then last the last episode we did, it's ⁓ it's the last episode of Uncles in Law. It's sitting on the computer. It has not been released. ⁓ And I can tell you why it's I did not I didn't I thought the episode was not very good. And I was like, you know what? Rather than dull boring everyone to death, let me just not put this anywhere. Steve, did you know that this podcast had an executive producer? I did not. I didn't somewhere. I didn't know that. I didn't realize that in my contract I had given up ⁓ control over ⁓ whether after we take an hour out of our lives to record the podcast, Macken to say, nah. Unilateral decision not to post the episode. And no no we didn't receive any notes. It's not like we Nor did I ⁓ you act like it was your fault that it was boring. No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying at all. ⁓ No, no, no. It's a this is a three way street here, pals. This is not like you guys were so dull. It was a we were very dull. It is a we. ⁓ but you know, I was like, you know what, the second they asked me if the episode went up, I'll put it up. But you guys never asked, so it never went anywhere. ⁓ So stay tuned. Maybe I'll tag it on to the end of this one. You can have a special double episode. Yeah, double. See if I was right. Write in uncles in law pod at gmail dot com to see if I was right. Like ⁓ Frampton comes alive, a double album. Exactly. ⁓ we're gonna send it out and ⁓ it's gonna be great. ⁓ Fish Alive One, that was double album. Yep, Fish Live One was was ⁓ a double album. ⁓ a lot of good double albums out there. My morning jacket has a good double album. Sure. Yep. The Beatles, they did one. Yep, they sure did. Yep. Yep. Well actually was called The Beatles. It was referred to as the White Album. Indigo Girls, 1200 curfews. Okay Double is that a live album or a double album? Or a double live album? It is a double live album. Double live album. Okay. Yeah. That's exciting. I can't think of a live album that exists on one disc. ⁓ I can think of plenty. Yes. Like what? Interesting one. ⁓ Indigo Girls back on the bus, y'all. I did not know we were in the Indigo Girls catalog. Okay. ⁓ Indigo Girls Staring Down the Brilliant Dream. Sarah McLaughlin's live album. Steve w what are you doing outside of Lilith Tour right now? Like why what does tell me about this Indigo Girls fascination you have that I didn't know about? They've been my favorite they've been my favorite You didn't know that, Svatal since I was nine. ⁓ my gosh. Well we've hello Steve and I have literally never talked about music. So I'm gonna talk about I I am ⁓ I am a I am an A A plus E equals I G. I am an Indigo Girls stan. That is a wild. I never never I I you know, actually if you said, hey, what's Steve's favorite band? I don't know that I would have I don't know what I would guess. Let me pretend I don't know Indigo Girls. Mike ⁓ Michael asked me what Steve's favorite band is and I'm gonna try to come up with a real answer here. Matt, what do you think are the is ⁓ Steve's favorite band? ⁓ you know Now I wish we had actually done this. Billy Joel. ⁓ come on. Yeah, I could s I could see him as a as a big Billy Joel guy. Yeah. Yeah. You know? He's the the Mets thing is in there and the New York thing. Yeah. Like yeah. He's a Long Island ⁓ he look he looked over to Long Island as a child going, Wow, that's a working class town. Yep. There is a there's a time and a place for Billy Joel, but favorite? Yeah, I mean that's what I so let me now okay, now I'm gonna think band wise, 'cause that's singer songwriter in fairness. ⁓ What was that band, ⁓ Presidents of the United States of America? Yeah. ⁓ sure. They sang Peaches. Yeah. Yeah. Could you see him as a I don't know if I could see him? Well more just for the more just for the title, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the the the name not the title, the name of the band. I I I I'm follow ⁓ but like Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I go through life thinking about whether things have some secondary double entendre reference to my work. I only f I only found the Dave Matthews band because I was looking for Matthew. I was like looking for my own name in a same Goody at the Cambridge side gallery in nineteen ninety five. Also a double live album. Live at Red Rocks. That's absolutely and don't forget Luther College. ⁓ yeah. Yep. ⁓ that's also a two volume music book. So if you want to get the tab to play the guitar of those things. How about how about a triple album? How about the complete symphonic recording to Le Miserab? ⁓ okay. Okay. So still. Three C Ds. How did you find the Indigo girls? Or how did they find you? Summer camp. ⁓ Yep. So I started going to Sleep Awake Camp when I was nine. lesbian counselor who really loved I would have guessed two older sisters. I I was into the Indo so so my older sister might fight me over this, but but but I was into the Indigo Girls before she was. ⁓ Wow. I I you know ⁓ it was the summer of nineteen eighty nine so like they were just becoming a bit of a thing. Their second album was out. Closer to Fine was was was doing the rounds. ⁓ and like a couple of their songs, you know, people sang a camp and I just got into it. Wow. Wow. Isn't one of them losing their voice? So it's worse than that. so so the indigo the indigo girls are ⁓ Amy Ray and Emily Sailors. And Emily has I I don't exactly remember Emily has like a degenerative like neurological condition where she is not only losing her voice, she is losing some of her motor skills. so Karen and I actually have tickets to go see them when they're here in DC on October seventh. And I I fear this might be it because the last time we saw them it was it was quite noticeable. Wow. ⁓ Dory went to the they were doing a bunch of shows with Amos Lee. Yeah. Yeah. And Dory went to I they do they do shows I was like, what the fuck is wrong? They do shows with everybody. I mean like they are they are super well like connected and well liked in that in the entire like, you know. That entire universe of the music industry, like r folk, rock, folk, singer, songwriter, that whole universe. Like they've you know, everyone knows them. ⁓ Were they one of the ⁓ they were involved in Lilith Fair back in the day? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Sarah McLaughlin was really the organizing force behind Lilithair, but they were one of the big they were one of the big acts. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. This is fascinating. I don't I don't I don't know much about the indigo girls. I really don't. Well I I I mean I I'm now worried about having another episode that's too boring to release, so maybe I'll save this for the next time we hang out in person. This I didn't realize that that would be like a shot across the bow. Guys, I've got plenty of unreleased episodes of things. Do not take it personally. Where you didn't tell the people who you were co hosting with that you didn't release it? Everyone else is asked, you know. You guys just didn't bother. Well I was I was away. Like I I wasn't paying attention to stuff while we were on vacation. Yeah. Guys, come on. We'll take maybe I'll run a poll and we can release the episode. ⁓ so if you want if you want a f a forty five second summer so the indigo girls met in like college in Georgia in the nineteen eighties. and like they had a lot in common and they started playing music together. ⁓ their early stuff is very, very heavy folk with almost a little bit of like southern bluegrassy country almost. they really they sort of they got much bigger and sort of decided to make their like tr tried to do like a rock-ish transition in like the late 90s. Amy Ray actually went out and has her own label where she does some of her own work on that. ⁓ that was not their most popular period I think among their strongest fans. ⁓ and they've really sort of come back to the like, you know, acoustic guitar, you know, piano violin sort of cello compositions as the as their bread and butter in the in the the albums that they released in the aughts. Were there fans yelling Judas at them like they did to Bob Dylan when he went electric? Not quite, not quite, not quite. But you know, but the album they released when I was a senior in high school was like so overly instrumentationed. ⁓ you know, it was like it was interesting, but it was like, wait, where's you know, w it's like the Harmonies and like the really cool guitar riffs and stuff. Like, where's that stuff? Yeah. Did they come out of ⁓ like the Athens, Georgia rock scene? Like REM and Absolutely. ⁓ they're super panic and they're they are super close to R.E.M. and to Michael Stipe, especially. I mean, he on their second album, although most people think it's their first album 'cause it's their eponymous album. there's a very popular song called Kid Fears that he is on with them. ⁓ he is like, I guess I sort of assume they always I always assume they met at like Smith College or something. Okay. you you go with that, Michael. See that yeah, that there you go. Just you know, see seems like a the place they may have met, but ⁓ yeah, Athens George Or you know, the University of Georgia. Yeah. B fifty two's from Athens, you know, ⁓ it's ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. It's ⁓ so I mean it was a hotbed of exactly that kind of, you know, music energy in the nineteen eighties. And I think that's exactly it's exactly where they came from. Okay. So that lead you into like any other Lilithair acts, like ⁓ like ⁓ were you like a ten thousand maniacs fan? Were you like ⁓ sure. Yeah. Natalie Merch ⁓ and I I actually I I might be one of the only people out there who actually likes Natalie Merchant's solo stuff too. but ⁓ you know, Sarah McLaughlin did the same thing. She started out as like a singer songwriter, and then as she got more popular, she tried to become more pop y. ⁓ And you know that I had the same reaction to that. Like I liked her more folksy stuff than her than her pop stuff. but yeah, so ⁓ 10,000 I mean, I I got into 10,000 Maniacs when they did MTV Unplugged. I remember that. Yep. Yep. ⁓ I mean their cover of Because the Night is like s I I still have that on my playlist. ⁓ trying to think who else. Lisa Loeb was I I got into I learned a bit about and from Lilithair. ⁓ Melissa Etheridge. ⁓ like there's a There's a whole universe, man. ⁓ Of of early nineties singer songwriters is what you're saying. Angsty angsty lesbian female singer songwriters. what about ⁓ like Tori Amos? So Tori and Anni DeFranco were a little too Michael. ⁓ so Tori and Anni DeFranco were a little too angsty for me. So my I sort of drew the angst line between like Melissa Etheridge and Tori Amos and Ani DeFranco. Although I will say ⁓ Annie DeFranco's You've Got Time is one of my all time favorite songs. So ⁓ We're being invaded. ⁓ wow. By Sydney and and her friend Anna. Hello, Anna. ⁓ Cindy, I don't know that Anna's mom knows that she's on a podcast right now, so I'm so a so many questions happening right now. Yes, these are Sydney's uncles. And that's Mara. Hi Mara. Hi Mara. ⁓ and Mara's She's hiding. And and Mara's hiding because she's about to take Sydney and Anna out of the my office. No you're not. Sydney goes Ugh guys we're we are literally recording a podcast right now, so bye. Yeah, that was on purpose. Guys, let's go. That door doesn't open. The one that you lock doesn't open, dad. It's amazing how that works. ⁓ That's very funny. Sind you can you please Yep, thanks, Mara. Okay. Anyway, that was a fun interlude. I love it. Do the ⁓ do the girls do the girls share your affinity for indigo? ⁓ Karen does. Karen Karen is a big indigo girls fan. You know, she she she does not just come with me to concerts for f like for for for you know no reason. I I don't know that I don't know that Maddie or Cindy have ever really gotten into it. So fascinating. Alison was a big indigo girls fan. Yep. Yeah, she and I talked about that once. Yeah. So Steve, would you say that they are unequivocally your favorite musical group? Yes. Unequivocally, of all time. Absolutely. There I I I I could I can I can tell you about like musicals to the degree that I can tell you about their catalog, but there's no other musical artist whose ⁓ catalog and like recording history I could tell you nearly as much about. How many times have you seen them live? Eighteen or nineteen. Okay. Wow. That's good. Where do they play these days when they come to Washington DC? ⁓ last time we saw them at the Strathmore, which is a pretty big ⁓ like concert hall in ⁓ these days they would call it North Bethesda, but it's really Rockville. and they're playing when we in October they're playing with the Anthem. So they're playing in slightly smaller venues. They they were never like a stadium size Sure. ⁓ but I saw them I'm trying to think. I saw them play the Mullins Center, which is UMass's arena. ⁓ so like midsized college arena. when I was a freshman at Amherst and they they sold that out. ⁓ Wow. Course course Western Massachusetts, I mean two years two y two y two years. I mean they're from there. ⁓ But so you know, I would say at their height, they could probably they would probably play in like ten to fifty ten to ten thousand eight eight to ten thousand seat arenas. Yeah. ⁓ but probably not anything bigger. they were just ⁓ when they were out here, they were at the Greek. Yep. And they'll do small. I mean they will I I've seen them in very small like like they they will play in like very small venues that are too small for them. I mean, like I'm in the thirty club, they're gonna be there. Yep. So that not this time around, but there was there as well. There was a time. So has so has Fish. There you go. ⁓ yeah? Yeah? When? ⁓ the the loudest concert I think ninety one? Okay. The loudest concert I ever saw in my life was smashing pumpkins at the nine thirty club when I was in high school. ⁓ wait, you know what? I take that back. They have never played the nine thirty club. ⁓ damn it. Wait, you I've the 930 club and you haven't been? I've never been to the 930 club. That's right. ⁓ my gosh. Now mind you, I I should tell you guys the actual story of how I ended up at a Smashing Pumpkins concert when I was in high school, because it's actually kind of funny. wasn't really my kind of thing. But my little sister Abby, who you guys know is about three years and three months younger than I am, who's three years behind me in in, you know, the c school year counting. ⁓ She was like a diehard smashing pumpkins fan. And she had a friend who had gotten four tickets to see the pumpkins at the 930 club. and the friend's dad was supposed to go. ⁓ but he got sick, and so they needed a chaperone. because my because my sister was, I think, t thirteen at the time. so it's not like they could go to the nine thirty club by themselves. ⁓ so I was like, I think I was sixteen. And and I was there and and so the deal was I could go and I would get one extra ticket to bring a friend of mine. ⁓ was this when she was smoking cigarettes? This was pre this was pre Abbey smoking cigarettes. That was college, man. ⁓ yeah, that that was ⁓ that was in New Haven. That's right. Where I'm going tomorrow, by the way. I'm gonna be in your deck of the woods. ⁓ nice. What are you doing up here? I'm giving a talk at the the law school from which I graduated. Yeah, quite that's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. What's the topic? ⁓ it's a paper. It's ⁓ I'm basically presenting a paper that's coming out in November. ⁓ a little sneak preview. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Nice. ⁓ and Michael, your favorite band is Fish. My favorite band is Fish. It was ⁓ in high school, it was Dave Matthews' band. ⁓ and then it's been fish since college, yeah. Rude of you to abandon Dave, but that's okay. You know? He has plenty of he's he's he's doing fine. I you know, I ⁓ I've been to some Dave concerts recently. I still listen to Dave Matthews. Sure. ⁓ I do too, to a point. I don't think I've even listened to I have their album, their last album. On vinyl I haven't listened to it. That's sad. That's so depressing to think about just as an adult human being who would be like, There's a Dave Matthews album I haven't listened to. Yep. I've seen them fifty times. Look what happened to you. Matt, what is what is your answer to the what is your answer to this question? ⁓ it is probably the Dave Matthews band. ⁓ Possibly Possibly the Shins. Mm-hmm. And then ⁓ I'd throw Regina Specter in there holding up the third the third slot, you know? Do you think there's do you think there's anyone else who would say that their favorite band is the Shins? Zach Braff. Yeah. Character in the movie Garden State. Yeah. ⁓ That is a very specific fictional reference. actually it was Natalie Portman's character in Garden State. ⁓ the ⁓ I haven't seen Garden State in a very long time. Yeah, I haven't either. I can't imagine it holds up. I really can't. Just from a point just from like a narrative structure point of view and like also like subject matter wise, I don't know. Like I don't know how interesting, you know, late early thirties angst is at this point. I get that movie confused with Thousand Nights of Summer. Is that is that? 500, 500, 500, 500,000. 500 days of summer. Yeah. But it like similar like pining after a girl. Yeah, but also I don't know that that one holds up. They're all pining after a girl. I chasing. Yeah. Yeah. Chasing Amy. Chasing Amy's a little bit more ⁓ That's Gen X. Yeah, that's more Gen X. Yeah. Chasing Amy. Yeah. You know, Matt Matt, I I I think you know this, that like when I first met you, I thought of all of the things that you knew and the people you hung at you hung out with, your Kevin Smith connections were my favorite. ⁓ I mean Kevin's Kevin's ⁓ the best. Kevin's a lovely human. And I you know, I felt the same way, you know, when I met Kevin, I was I was such a big fan of his in my youth, like in high school, like like Clerks as obsessed with the Iskuniverse, Clerk Smaller has chasing Amy and all that. ⁓ Dogma And I I quote I quote by the way, I quote Mallrats all the time and everyone looks at me like I just walked off of a spaceship. I mean, no what's the line? ⁓ let's see. What sometimes I do ⁓ breakfast, Renee, ⁓ you know, breakfast come and go. But Hartford, the whale, they only beat Vancouver once, twice in a lifetime. Sure. ⁓ you know, I re Mallrats I read Mallrats too at Kevin's and it was It was it was a lot of fun and but it sort of hinged on Stan Lee being in it again. but he has passed, so I fear too, so has Mallrats too. ⁓ unless they Grandmoth Tarkin him. Clerks was the answer to ⁓ a trivia question of this ⁓ trivia contest I participate in today. ⁓ Yeah. Wait, do you have a daily trivia contest? Yeah. Yeah. It's ⁓ I got roped into it. It runs like three or four times a year. It's this thing called Learned League. Yep. ⁓ th Learned League is much more than three or four times a year. It's every day. Well, it ⁓ the official Competitions are like three times a year, but then they run these unofficial user-submitted daily competitions about like topics that are specific to the person who submitted them. Uh-huh. and the questions are incredibly wide-ranging. I tend to only like get the like current event pop culture ones, not the like 17th century scientist type ones. ⁓ but the question was what 1994 film was made for roughly twenty seven thousand in production costs and shot primarily in the Leonardo, New Jersey convenience store where its filmmaker worked. Nicely done. Yep. ⁓ and Mo Scott Mosier, who was Kevin's producer, ⁓ and I and I became really good friends, one of my best friends in the world. And Scott and I used to do a podcast called Phoebe, Four Eyes and Beard. ⁓ which was quite nonsensical and is still a good listen if you want to listen to something that is about nothing. Truly about nothing guys we have we have we have breaking Supreme Court news. Let's go. The the court just ⁓ granted a stay in the ballroom case five to four. So President Trump can keep building his ballroom. ⁓ I thought this was about strictly ballroom. It can be that too ⁓ that's exciting. I'm really excited for him. wait a minute. The issue of President Trump building his ballroom made it all the way to the Supreme Court? On the ground that he doesn't have authorization to do it. From Congress. Remember them? Rem remember the the legislative branch of government? Because ⁓ because ⁓ it's a budget issue or because there's some No, yeah, there's like there's some there's some like ownership over the white country. And he has no appropriation to do it. That's the money part. Yep. Yeah. But what about like ownership of the United States of the White House? Who owns that? Not settled. Really? I mean I mean I the federal government does, but like this is we live in a time when people think that like the president I mean well, when they act like the president is the federal government. Right. Well he is in the current. So y you s you mean like ⁓ so when you say not settled, but like ⁓ Historically ⁓ governed by just the norms of politics. Politics and and proper being. And the idea. And the idea that if presidents did crazy stuff, they'd face consequences for it. Got it. Crazy, I know. Got it. So are you on Blue Sky right now? Typing out a ⁓ I am on Blue Sky right now. Although the Supreme Court's link to this supposed opinion is broken. ⁓ Come on, y'all. ⁓ They need the runner. We got one. Wait, so they're back in session, Steve? ⁓ no, this is this is the beauty of the emergency doctor. They can rule at any time, baby. ⁓ Yeah. Surprise. Surprise. Hey, at least they did this one during working hours. That's true. They're not really taking into consideration our schedule though, you know what I mean? That's right. You know what? They really fucking don't. Well, to be fair, we don't have a regular schedule. That's true. We have a text mess we have a text message based schedule. You know, we had a regular s a fairly regular schedule at the beginning. Yes. ⁓ and then it was disrupted by the onset of golf season. That's true. Yes. And every still here. So Yeah, which is still here. Ever since then we've not been on a regular schedule. But I mean, look forward to winter, you know, once the once that first frost sets in and Westport says goodnight, golf course. We'll be back at our regular schedule Friday. We will be back on Friday afternoons, baby. When speaking of things that, you know, things on your to-do list when Friday's problems become Monday's problems. Yeah. ⁓ my goodness, yeah. The ⁓ how's your game going? How you play this week? ⁓ that game's the same. Yeah. The same kind of, you know. Too good to be bad, too bad to be good. Just not like stuck in that nether world. I'm I'm down to my usual five point five handicap. No no real chance of getting much better than that. And so you're you're out there every day. Not every day, but I mean you're out there and you're gonna shoot a seventy eight. I'm shooting seventy eight to eighty three, you know, plus or minus in either direction. Does that pour you to tears? It frustrates me to tears. Yeah. Yeah. Because like you know, I mean, golf is really the ultimate game of like, God, I really could be better if I could just do this thing that I do fifty percent of the time, eighty percent of the time. Right. Right. And that eighty percent is it purely a time thing, Michael? Like like ⁓ are you confident that if you had, you know X amount of time additional to play golfing. ⁓ I didn't even mean it. ⁓ yes. Yes, I I do. but I didn't mean it like that. I meant like 50% of my shots I hit like I'm a great golfer. Right. And 50% of my shots I hit like I've never played golf before. And if you could somehow get that 50% to 80%, you would be, I would be, you know, much better. And the frustrating part is that because you can do it 50% of the time, you know it's in there. And there's no reason physically why I shouldn't be able to do it every time. I always think about it like gol I find golf interesting in the sense of like it's the only sport that you can recreationally play where you can do something as good as a professional could do it. Right. You can chip in, you can you know, I've you know, get a hole in one. No give no one can do anything better than that. That's right, you know. I've Right. It's like I'm not gonna I'm not gonna dunk a basketball. Right. Yeah. I'm not hitting a home run. Right. Yeah. Right. Just not happening. Right. ⁓ even in even in a slow pitch even in a slow pitch softball game? Slow pitch softball game. I mean I I could hit it over a slow pitch softball fence, but I'm not hitting it four hundred feet. You know what I mean? Like I'm not hitting over the green monster. Well but but you're not but you're not driving the ball three hundred and eighty five yards off the T. No, but also like pros don't do that either. Well, you know. Yeah. Okay. I mean look, Rory's well, what's Rory's average this year? Three fifty, maybe? Yeah, I mean but but that's like, you know, I I think that's the other thing about golf too, is like, you know, that's a that's ⁓ an area that I think is like ⁓ over look. No, I mean I think it's like I I think that's like an area where ⁓ there is you could train more to do that. Yes. whereas like I don't think I could train to dunk a basketball at my age and physical capabilities. Yeah. I mean I'm very, very average off the T. Like I, you know, maybe if I hit it great, I'll I'll it'll be two sixty. You know, and that's like if I hit it on the screws. But then, you know, I think half the half of golf is knowing how to play your game of golf. Yep. in that like knowing where to hit it to. Like I love a hundred and thirty five yard shot. So I wanna hit it. If the hole's three hundred and forty yards, I'm not going for a two hundred and seventy yard shot. You know what I mean? I'm right. Right. I wanna be in my zone. but yeah, golf is like I I it's really is like crazy, Steve, that you don't you've never been golf curious. In the golf I've been too busy listening to the Indigo Girls. ⁓ You know? You're like a big Charlie Hull fan or something, you know? Yeah. Yeah. If we had any listeners left of the female persuasion, we might have lost them over the last twenty minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently it's not a ⁓ given. Look, maybe I should hold the episodes ransom. Yeah. And and and from whom released. The general public. ⁓ the G pop, as it were. Yep. Are everyone's kids back at school? I believe so, right? No? Maddie's still not at school? Maddie is still not in school. She has another week. ⁓ my god. Henry for three weeks. Yeah, my start started last week. So the tradition is they start the Tuesday after Labor Day, even if the Tuesday after Labor Day is in December. Yeah. Which it is this year. That's some classic DC shit right there. Hey, the more you pay, the less they go. That's right. That's so true. That is so true. Yeah. I just signed my kids up for Hebrew school this year, ⁓ which they've done. It's not like a new thing. ⁓ Sunday school, Hebrew school. And because of the Jewish calend Jewish holiday calendar this year, the first ⁓ ⁓ Sunday of Hebrew school is October eleventh. Yep. Yep. Because of when Roshan Yomar, yep. Yeah. Yeah. And like some other holiday or something. But I was minor holiday. ⁓ we have a Sammy intervention. Henry Henry has a birthday. I t I told you I will a non-Rosh Hashamah. ⁓ You're gonna have some apples and honey? Well he's not I don't know that he's gonna be going to the birthday party. ⁓ it's not it ⁓ I got it. It's a friend birthday party. Okay, Sam, go out and wait. ⁓ yeah, but school started over here in Connecticut. Middle school. We had yeah, Henry started on August twelfth. Oof. I was gonna ask you guys, because Sam was asking me. He was you know, he was a little nervous ⁓ the day before the first day of middle school. And he said, Dad, what should I expect in middle school? And I had to explain to him again that I didn't go to middle school because in the socialist republic of Brookline We just went K K through eight. Yeah. So, Matt, Steve, what do you remember from your first day of middle school? I will say this. I think the social dynamics in middle school are it's like whiplash going from grade school to middle school. ⁓ the barbs are meaner, the clicks are tighter. Yep. And the homework is more annoying. Yep. ⁓ I think he you know, he could do what I did, which was just ⁓ build up a defense mechanism of a sense of humor. Yep. And ⁓ be the funniest person and then then you kinda got a pass from everybody, you know? Yep. Yep. ⁓ but yeah, it is a it's a big it's a shift going from like I yeah, 'cause I was at a K through four and then in fifth grade was middle school for me. Wow. fifth six. I I I was the other way around. I was K through six for elementary. And then I didn't start middle school till seventh grade. So my first day of middle school was the first day of seventh grade for me. ⁓ wow. And what do you remember from that? ⁓ I remember being both terrified and really excited that I was out of elementary school and that I was with a whole bunch of new students who I hadn't gone to elementary school with. So it was like I could start totally over. Yeah. I ⁓ You know, grew up a lot, I think, between like fifth grade and seventh grade. And so, yeah. But wait, did you had you moved cities also? Is that what so why were you ⁓ you're saying in addition to the kids you went to elementary school with, you were with No, there were not that many kids from my so so at the time, ⁓ District Two had school choice for middle school. And so you could choose where you went to middle school. and most of the kids who were classmates of mine chose other middle schools than the one I chose. ⁓ this was in the city. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Huh. ⁓ yeah. So I just I remember being really excited and terrify I mean terrified and awkward and weird, but also like, you know, fresh start. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think Sam has anything to really worry about because he's he's He's gonna f find his people, you know. He's gonna be his crew. I I think that's generally true. and it's nice his middle school is the school the middle school in town where it's only two elementary schools coming into middle school, versus the other one is three. So it's you it's a little smaller, so I think that that's that also helps. But, you know, he's he's been nervous these the first week, which I think is fair. I mean to be expected. Fighting us Every morning now, like going his he's you know, 'cause now his school has eight hundred kids in it. ⁓ wow. And he's at a new school. ⁓ with a new group of friends and or he's, you know, trying to make the friends and he's having he's you know, he's adjusting okay. We it's far. It's a it's a little bit of a commute. You know? So like for instance I said, ⁓ I gotta be done by one forty today, that's so I can go pick him up and he gets out at two forty. ⁓ So That's tough. It is, it's tough and like what's ⁓ annoying about it is like it's against traffic going there in the morning and coming home. So to Henry it's like a you know, twenty five to thirty minutes. But to me, it's an hour and a half of my day. Yeah. Each each way. Each way. Picking him up and dropping him off an hour and a half both times. ⁓ which, you know, thank God I don't have a job, so it's not What would you do if you did? If I had a job, he would probably be in a private school still. Near my you know, near the studio or near whatever. Like, I don't know. I don't guys, look, I am open to anything at this point. I'm gonna ask you both right now. I what what do I do with the rest of my life? I'm forty three years old. Yep. Television writing seems to be ⁓ Not totally over, but mostly over. ⁓ I don't know many other writers who are working right now. it's i I you know, you're both you both f wisely chose professions that are sort of built to last. You know, we're always gonna need law to be taught to the youth, and we're always going to need things to be sold B2B. B to C. You know, so I ask you, as someone who exclusively dealt in the world of ⁓ entertainment, what the fuck should I do? Do you think this is a bit more of a existential question? Please hit me with it. Do you feel like you need to declare ⁓ Bankruptcy, yes. No, like, do you feel like you know, you said you said you said television writing is almost completely over? Like, do you feel like mentally you need to declare television writing over? Or Like therefore you then don't have like one foot in, one foot out? There is there's certainly an element of of of there needing to be some sort of finality to it in my head. Yeah. ⁓ But it's like, you know, you're always like the problem with Los Angeles and the industry, you're you're you're like you're always like one job away from like the thing. Yeah. That then sets you up for the rest of your life. ⁓ However, those are so far few and far between now that I genuinely I just I just don't even like it was you know, it was lovely when I was a T V writer and my wife was like, I'm gonna quit my job, my steady job at at at this place and start a podcast. I was like, Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. And now it's like I don't it's you know, two thousand dollars a month just for insurance. Like it's like I don't even know what what planet I live on anymore. Yeah. And Henry's like no no no wiser about anything, thankfully. He has no idea how many sleepless nights we have over here, but it's like what I'm too old to fucking go to law school. I'm too old to go to fucking business school at this point. Like it's like what do I do? Yeah. So guys, let me know. If you figure it out, let me know. Well, I mean what what what I mean Matt, you're you you are an observer of the world. Like what things inter what things interest you? ⁓ you know, ⁓ carpentry, sure. I'm into that. I like ⁓ you know, it's it's it it's interesting because I feel like I feel like I'd be a great C suite executive. Like I f I really feel like I could run a branch of Disney. No problem. Problem is getting my foot in the door over there. So, you know, it's it's it's really interesting. I f I you know, I've always liked It's hard it's hard to say. Like creatively like I loved running the set of Goldbergs. I loved being down on the set and being the guy who answered all the questions and told everybody what they were doing and so on and so forth and working as a team and Yeah, it was a hundred and thirty five people. ⁓ so, you know, that wasn't a problem. I just it's hard. At this point, like I'm like, what am I? I'm a personality. I'm You know, I have I kind of have a name recognition. ⁓ But then I'm like, well, do I just make different content? And then I'm like, well what what what's the end game of content at this point? Everyone makes content now. But th I mean like that was where my head initially went, right? Like I like it. Well, you know, look, I I ⁓ I'm not in that world, so I don't know like how much is real versus how much is not, but like the idea of, you know, quote unquote being a content creator, and I realize, look, I'm not saying like, hey, I'm a content creator, pay me. Like you you know, there's a chicken and egg thing, but it seems to me like that could be a useful outlet that has a path towards ⁓ monetization to use the parlance of the industry. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a thing you know, I'm funny, I Dory and I made a list today of like all the ver my my various ideas for quote unquote content making. Yep. and some of them are really interesting and some of them are not as interesting, but it's like, okay, so I could do that. I'll make that content, but then it's like it's gotta catch, you know, it's hard to build an audience now 'cause it's so over satur everything's oversaturated and you know. I just wish I wish I could go back in time and like just stay at Apple or something, you know? Why not go back to Apple? Well now I'd have to be like I I I it's it's re I that's a good question of like what is it even like anymore as far as like being a Mac genius. Well we need to find out. Yeah. Yes, there is one way to find out, and that is to go back to the mall and work again. I mean I feel I feel like a lot of positive things happened in your life when you were working for Apple. Sure. Yeah. We talked about it on this podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was on an episode that was released. Yeah. That was the start of everything. You guys would really take that personally. But I I I know we're I know ⁓ I think not to put word in words in Steve's mouth, but like you know, there is Your sister does all the time. No, I know. I know. But there is the concept of like it's not a concept. There's the I guess it's a law. You know, an object in motion stays in motion. Yes. Right? Like there there is the idea of and like kind of similar to like hearing you talk about content creation of like just start. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like you can you can sit here Yeah. For days, years, lifetimes like coming up and I listen, Lord knows I do this myself of like, here's all the reasons this won't work. Right. Yeah. but you know, not to I and I'm not trying to be like all like, you know, preachy new internet like guru style, but like I'm interested in this. You know, at some point there's the like what's that saying? Like the best the the No, like the the best time to to have started was yesterday. The second best time is today. Like at some point you just start. I mean that's plant a tree. Yeah. Plant a tree. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. It's ⁓ I hear ya, but I also hear a lot of like analysis paralysis. Yes. This is this is what this is what I tell my students a lot. I tell my students a lot that ⁓ it's very possible that your first job at a law school will not be your dream job. ⁓ but The worst thing that could happen is if you let that paralyze you from even having a good first job at a law school because you never know what your dream job is, right, until you are doing it. Right. Yep. Yep. And I also look, I'm also someone who ⁓ long ago gave up on the concept of a dream job. I mean, I know I'm talking to two people who had or have their dream jobs. I do not have my dream job. What is your dream job? I am Roadie for the Indigo Girls. I am I am not the radio voice of the New York Mets. ⁓ okay. Yeah, that's fair. That's although that position is now open. But I am like, you know, that's I don't think that I'm in the cards to be Howie Rose's successor. Right. ⁓ well, ⁓ a job okay, so maybe not dream job, but a job where ⁓ it it nicely aligns with your interests. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Very fortunate. I've had a lot of those. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And, you know, speaking as someone whose ⁓ job I think from an industry perspective has aligned with this interest, but certainly not a functional ⁓ standpoint. you know, I think sometimes talking about dream jobs can also like lead to a lot of analysis paralysis. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I agree with that. This is good to hear. This is you know, 'cause it's like everyone I talk to Is ⁓ out here in the same boat, you know? So it's like very nice to talk to two people who aren't out here in this boat. Yeah, and I think like that can be comforting to talk to people that are in the same boat, but it can also lead to a little bit of like woe is me, of like because you're you get that validation from people that are in your same position. Right. Of like a woe. Woe is us. Yeah, but woe is us is like I mean that can also lead to like not helpful, right? I mean it can be helpful, but it also can be like, well, if everyone is struggling to get jobs, then like what's different about me? Yeah. You know, it's interesting too, like the the I'm in a s we're in a situation like Dory and myself where we're both like she she chose to, you know, become a writer also and and, you know, writing obviously different stuff. ⁓ But like just these like I just miss the idea of like my mom was a registered nurse and my dad was a technician. You know? Sure. Like I I feel like I just Well you could you could go be a nurse. I c well, again, it's gonna take some schooling. Sure. And I I definitely am not getting approved for those student loans at this point. U Yeah. This has been You know, I look I appreciate you guys ⁓ at least listening, you know, and your s your your your your your advice. I I do appreciate that. I you know, not to bring it not to bring it full circle, but I think a lot of what we started talking about this episode of like you you have not given yourself a deadline. Right. I mean y you started the episode by saying ⁓ I won't do it if I don't have a deadline, but given a deadline, you will definitely do it. Right. You know. What's your what's your deadline? This is this Maybe by the next time we record, Matt needs to have an idea may maybe by the next time we record you need to have a concrete idea of of a step you're going to take. Well, not just an idea. You will have taken a you will have taken a step. Hey, I was I was starting small. I was I was setting my But I need to be set up for th the failure ⁓ that I won't I refuse to encounter. Like when I when I walk into a gym, the the the first shot whenever I'm playing basketball is a layup. Just you know, because yeah, no, yeah. I appreciate you trying to give me a layout. I appreciate that a lot. Well good luck. Thank you. Thank you. I've got you know it's funny. I have I have ideas of content and stuff ⁓ that I'd like to be making and I you know, I wrote down a bunch of it today. Good. ⁓ so we will certainly we'll see. We'll see how that goes. So Michael, speaking of Learned League, I have a trivia question for you. Let's hear it. ⁓ what professional sports team hat am I currently wearing? ⁓ I'm gonna say that's a Seattle Mariners alternate logo. So very close, very close. You you you made the correct deduction of the of the space needle looking thing in the logo. ⁓ it's a Seattle cr it's the Kraken. ⁓ Okay. It's ⁓ the alternate so you know they don't really wear baseball hats, but the Kraken have a series of baseball hats, and this is their alternate logo for their baseball hats. I went to college with the owner of the Seattle Kraken. No way. Yeah. That's cool. Are you still touch? Behind me. No, no, I I wasn't ⁓ she was ⁓ she was very or still is very good friends with ⁓ a woman that one of my best friends dated in college. So I like knew of her but did not know her that well. That's my only connection to the Kraken. Besides unleashing it daily. I was gonna say ⁓ boy. Looking to unleash the kraken of the next chapter of my professional life. There you go. Good. Speaking of the I think that's how your ex cover that's how your cover letter should start. Yeah. To whom? That's the problem. My cover letter to the world. But also, you know, they say goals ⁓ become much more tangible when you speak them out loud and tell other people know what they fucking are. Tell other people. Karen is actually Karen Karen is a big believer of speaking things into existence and sort of sending things out into the universe. Yeah. Well because it's not just because of the and it's not just her phone's it's not it's not just because her phone's listening to her and sends her algorithms based on what it's heard. It creates ⁓ Maybe I should book that hotel. Sorry Michael, I was I've a feeling with you. No, I was gonna say like that ⁓ you know, it creates some accountability, right? Because you don't wanna let you don't wanna let other people down. You can always let yourself down. Lord knows I do, but you know, you got to ⁓ you don't you don't wanna let others down. It's like that episode of The Simpsons, you only move twice with Hank Scorpio and Hank asks ⁓ Homer what his dream is and he goes To own the Dallas Cowboys. And then he's like, I bet a lot of people laughed at you when they When they hear you say that. He's like, people laughed at me too when I wore a blazer with jeans. I was the first wealthy guy in America to wear blazers with jeans. And then at the end of the episode, ⁓ he opens the door to find that he's been given the Denver Broncos. And hopefully he's just like, ⁓ the Denver Broncos Cool. Yeah. Hank Scorpio. That's a great episode of The Simpsons. ⁓ But it's that it's it's just about that time, guys. ⁓ we have gotten no emails. Well, there was no episode for people to respond to. Thank you, Steve. That is They probab they probably forgot the email address. It's uncles in lawpod at gmail dot com. ⁓ this episode has felt great. This episode I can't even wait. ⁓ it's it's postworthy? This one is like going up so fast. It's sponge worthy. It is sponge worthy, yes. N now we're gonna have to literally ask Matt at the end of every fucking episode. So Matt, you're gonna post this one? Mm-hmm. ⁓ you know, sarcastically, and we'll make it a bit. I like it. You know. It's good. I like a bit. don't get me started on Seinfeld writers, Michael. They ⁓ boy. If I got into this business ten years earlier, holy shit. You would have been a Seinfeld writer? I would have I would have been there for the hot NBC must see TV schedule where everybody got a development deal just because you wrote a fucking half an episode of Friends. Yep. Yep. That was the dream. Yep. all right. Look, ⁓ tune in next week, everybody, when we figure out what tangible steps Matt has taken to further his career as as a something. Great. Follow along. Yeah. ⁓ I was gonna say that that's the real bit is Matt's Matt's second career. Yep. That's what this look, we're generating content right now. Here we go. Here we go. ⁓ monetization is forthcoming. It's happening. I'm gonna have have Karen speak it into existence, please. Uncle Uncles in Law brought to you by Indeed. Yeah. Give it to me. Give me I'll we'll do that. We'll do a better help and it'll be great. Yep. ⁓ All right, everyone. We'll see you ⁓ next week. ⁓ wait, do we should do the thing that we used to do all the time? What are we looking forward to? I'll tell you right now, I'm looking forward to starting something. Yep. Great. So that's what I'm looking forward to. I'm looking forward to hearing about you starting something. Me too. Me too. In addition to hearing looking forward to you hear you know what I'm saying. I'm also looking forward to the first Michigan game of the year is on Saturday night. Are they playing direction are they playing directional Michigan? They are. They're playing western Michigan. ⁓ Eastern was off this year. Eastern was off. ⁓ Northern also not available. Do they play Northern? ⁓ I feel like it's Eastern, Western, and Central. ⁓ yeah. I yes, you're right. Central. ⁓ they ⁓ play or used to play central the central Michigan Chippewas. Yes, they play or you nice casino ⁓ up by central Michigan, Matt. If you're ever in the if you're ever in the ⁓ pleasant Mount Pleasant, Michigan area. ⁓ they used to play northern Michigan in hockey. That's where I was confused. Yep. That makes sense. 'Cause northern Michigan I think is not a big football school. No. No, I don't I don't believe they're Division I football, so that would yeah. But CMU is. CMU is. Antonio Brown. Wow. They they don't have him Saturday though. Yeah, he's not exactly covering himself in glory either these days. Who is? Who is exactly who among this? Who is? ⁓ On that note, that was I think we're done. Yeah. Bye everyone. Bye. See you next time. Bye.