Panther Volleyball: The coach has standards and expectations for the season for that player. The player has expectations and standards for the season. But I feel like it would be even more important for a knowledgeable parent to say, Hey, what are our expectations as a family for your growth in the season? What do you expect to get out of it? what are we going to work on?

Ebonie Moore: Welcome to the Pantherpaws Volleyball Podcast. There's a special guest co-host joining the conversation today, Chauncey Moore. We are sitting down with Coach Brad Marshall to talk about what really builds resilient young athletes. If you've ever wondered why some kids respond to pressure, criticism, and setbacks in a way that helps them grow, this conversation will change the way you think about youth sports. We're getting into mindset, accountability, and the role parents play in helping their athlete build confidence and resilience.

Panther Volleyball: thanks for coming, Brad. Why don't you tell the people a little bit about you and your background?

Brad Marshall: Yeah, thanks so much for having me on here. Excited to connect again. yeah, so I call Fuquay Varena, North Carolina home. Been here with my wife for probably last twelve years or so. way back when found myself in athletics, enjoyed football and baseball and just competing and took that love for sport and trying to figure out how do we help people perform their best. So that led me down a path of studying psychology. And then getting a master's degree in sports psychology. And ri originally I had the dream of how do I work in professional sports and just work in athletics for the rest of my career. And after graduating from Springfield College and studying sports psychology, had the opportunity to work in athletics, which is what brought me down here to North Carolina, worked at Campbell University and the fighting camels and worked with their student athletes for a little while, both in the classroom. As well as on the field, and then had a chance to work with the military down at Fort Bragg and working with the soldiers there and helping them get ready for all of the different missions and challenges that they have, all still centered around how do we help people perform their best when it matters most. And after working with the military for four or five years, had an opportunity to step into more of the corporate world and getting a chance to work with Aetna, which is a health insurance company and CVS Health. Figuring out how do we develop their leaders and how do we develop people within their organization to continue to show up and bring their best self each day. And along the way, got a love for health and fitness. got into this whole thing called CrossFit. loved the coaching aspect, loved helping people navigate their own journeys and figuring out how do they live happier and healthier lives, both from a mindset perspective, but then from physical movement and then also nutrition. And so Started a gym about three and a half years ago now, called Greater Culture CrossFit, really centered around this idea of how do we help people to continue to thrive. So taking some of my love and my passions for human performance mindset, and then adapting that to the movement and the nutrition side as well. And so I've been fortunate over the years to to still stay connected to athletics and get a chance to work with folks who are still striving to perform as well as they can, including some of the Panther volleyball players, as well as collegiate and other athletes. And so I always love chatting on ways we can help people to be a little bit better on the field, be a little bit better off the field and help people navigate that journey. So that's a little bit about me and what I've been up

Panther Volleyball: Mm-hmm.

Brad Marshall: to over the last decade.

Panther Volleyball: That was a very good synopsis of 10 years. so we're just gonna start off at what Chauncey and I have seen as newer coaches, as parents of an athlete, multiple athletes actually, and to tell you what we're seeing in games and practices. I find that A lot of athletes are having trouble accepting constructive criticism or correction. I'm not sure where that's coming from. but I also noticed that they they see the consequences, but they're not seeing what they did to cause said consequence. It's always you're doing something to me, not how did I contribute? and then they just really seem to be confused by the concept of cause and effect. So what is your opinion on that? Are you seeing the same things? just go to town.

Brad Marshall: Yeah. And I think it's such a interesting dynamic, especially as athletes are coming up and growing and learning and applying themselves in the sport. And next thing you know, it's all of a sudden I'm getting constructive feedback from coaches, perhaps from parents, from others. And one of the challenges that I tend to see or that I've seen, especially as people are continuing to grow in a sport. Is the ability to, like you said, take some of that responsibility, understand that the actions that they're doing or some of the behaviors that they're showcasing do have some of those consequences. And even though there might be some of those consequences or challenges, how do we still use that to help us to get a little bit better? because I think what can happen is when athletes are trying to learn new skills, trying to apply themselves, and either They're met with, I'm not doing this very well. Other athletes seem to be performing better than I am. Or maybe even mom and dad at home are just continually giving me information and maybe it's a little bit of an overload. They can start to have that conversation in their own head of well, maybe I'm not good enough, or maybe I'm not doing things the way that is gonna help me or help my team. And that can start to lead to some of those doubts or insecurities. And then we try and or I imagine that. They try and say, like, well, how do I put up some defenses against that? Because I'm kind of beating myself up. Maybe it feels like my coaches or my teammates or my parents are. And all of a sudden it's like, I'm getting a lot of feedback or I'm getting a lot of information from others. And I'm trying to figure out how do I use that. so I think it's a really interesting dynamic, and it's where coaches certainly play a role, parents play a role, and helping athletes as they develop. Understand that you're probably going to have this conversation that in your head as you go to practice, as you go to games. And is that conversation helpful? Is it allowing you to make mistakes and overcome them and put yourself back out there? Is it when you experience success, it helps to build some confidence? Is it when you know your teammates are looking to you to perform or to show up and to give your best effort that you're able to do that? And so I think helping. especially younger athletes understand that the way they talk to themselves, the way that this conversation unfolds is is really important. And that's essentially where this whole idea of mindset coaching or mental performance comes in because most athletes as they're growing up and competing, they're usually not even aware that they're having this conversation with themselves or that it might be helping them or hurting them. And as coaches and as parents, it can be a really great opportunity to Teach them, but also to try and pull some of that out of them. And so like you said, when you start to notice that, athletes are getting really defensive when giving feedback. Or if or if you're trying to show them like, hey, that action you just did, it didn't lead to a great outcome. So what can we do to perhaps change that? I think bringing some curiosity as coaches and as parents to ask questions of, hey, tell me what you saw from that perspective. How did your actions lead to This specific outcome and helping them to unpack or uncover some of that can be really helpful. And I think that's sort of the foundation and the building blocks of how do we help build more resilient or more capable athletes who are able to progress and continue on in their athletic career. So that's a little bit of kind of my perspective on that topic of when you start to see athletes perhaps. shut down or maybe feel like they're pulling back or they're getting really frustrated or putting up some those defense mechanisms. It's like how do we get through that by asking better questions or being curious or empathizing and then figuring out how do we learn together what that next right step could be. So I think that's a little bit of how I see that particular topic and how maybe coaches as well as parents can navigate that a little bit more.

Panther Volleyball: in your explanation and your answer, you said a keyword for me. together. I just jotted down a note and I'm wondering if you see a lot or notice the fact that children are now operating out of singularity as opposed to considering the entirety of a team.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, it it's interesting. I saw something the other day highlighting that about this particular generation as well of with how much access that they have to social media and other platforms that you can have followers and you can have people like or comment. It feels like you've got a big circle of friends. But when you actually kind of peel back the layers, it seems to be generation that is almost a little bit more alone or they're not connecting as much either in person or having some of those deeper relationships, a bit more surface level. And so I think maybe that could be a testament to that as well of you know we have this external desire to put something out there that people like or comment on or that people approve of. And maybe it causes people to be a little bit more internally focused of I'm just gonna see if I can figure this out by myself and maybe I'm not opening myself up to connect with a team or connect with my coaches or to really be part of something more than just myself. And I think that that's one of the beauties of sport is that you learn how to be part of a team and understand what it's like to have to make sacrifices or to do things that maybe you don't want to do to achieve a specific outcome. And so think there's also this opportunity then to how do we help athletes learn what it's like to be part of a team? What are the characteristics of a great team? And how do we get outside of ourselves to allow ourselves to be successful as a group? So I think that really does highlight what you're saying is that there are maybe is a tendency for people to be a little bit more isolated, feel like maybe they're in it. For themselves a little bit more as opposed to seeing it from the whole team perspective.

Panther Volleyball: Like I know when you grew up, playing sports, we both grew up doing playing sports, it wasn't really an issue. It was it just seemed natural that you tried out for a sport or you participated in a sport and team was almost instantaneous. It's just that's just the way it's going to be. Why do you think that might be different? I don't know. I think that's a question that I've been asking myself ever since our oldest kind of kind of got into the sports. Like, what's the difference between our generation and this generation that we're raising now? And why is that concept of togetherness and team so hard to grasp? And like Ebony said, it's one of those things that like you stepped on the floor, the court, the field, and team was first. It was almost like it was like a family thing and there were lessons being learned and things being taught that were outside of sports. And even at that young age you don't realize it. but, as I got older, it's like, man, there was life lessons that I learned throughout that. And I think trying to trying to figure out what brings kids together and and help them understand that, the success that I feel and I the happiness that I have comes from the team, not just me doing one single thing. And even if that means I have to sit down on the bench or step out and let somebody sub in at the end of the day, it was for a reason and you know, good, bad or indifferent. we've done something and we've accomplished something together as a team and we've won or we played our hardest to give our best effort and the outcome, regardless of what it was, there was success to be found. There was even sadness to embrace together. So I don't I still don't have an answer to the question. I can expound upon it a lot, but it's still something I'm trying to figure out how to nail down and how to kind of drive that with our club teams, with rec teams, anything that we approach like how do you guys come together? Cause we play we go to open gym and there's people strangers we don't know. And it takes maybe like one or two sets or a couple of points and you're bonding with a complete stranger and you're like, All right, we are trying to win and we're trying to work together. And the kids that we're working with now, that seems to be a struggle. So I don't know. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, Brad, but it's something that I

Brad Marshall: Yeah.

Panther Volleyball: still try to wrap my head around constantly.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, same. I think it's interesting because I think sometimes there's this trickle down effect in sport where at the highest level, like it is a business and like people are making a certain amount of money and they're gonna make decisions that are in the best interest of themselves and their families. Well, I feel like we've seen that trickle down to college now where that feels a little bit more individualistic, where players are changing schools on a yearly basis based on where they can perhaps earn the most money. And is there still that community atmosphere or I'm really attached to a specific school or team, maybe not as much. And has that continued then to trickle down where it's like, hey, all I care about is is my kid gonna be successful and make it to the next level or get a scholarship or continue playing? And maybe some of that has impacted the way that, some of the athletes as they're developing connect with their teammates of well, I'm switching teams or I'm going to find where I'm gonna get the most playing time or I'm gonna get the most opportunity. And I'm not as committed to the team so much as am I gonna be able to excel and continue to showcase. So I'd be interested to see if there is maybe some of that trickle down. but yeah, it's amazing how quickly I feel like same experience where it's like if you get a random group of people together and you're playing a sport, like you're very committed to doing as well as you can for that team, even if you don't even know the people. so I think continuing to make sure a team has a pretty strong sense of identity of like, hey, what are we here to do? What are we here to accomplish? If there is some shyness or if there's people who maybe don't feel as integrated, like what are the things that as a team you're continuing to do to try and get to know other people and figure out how do we work together to accomplish something together and sharing in the successes and sharing in the failures. Maybe some of those things were a little more natural and maybe now it takes maybe a little bit more effort to bond some of those athletes together, especially at that younger age, and kind of showing them what it looks like and how a a team operates as opposed to just focusing on their own personal performance or individual accolades. So yeah, it's maybe something that I think about with that topic.

Panther Volleyball: Moving forward with that, I sent you a nice Instagram reel from Joseph Humick, and it basically talks about how parents contribute to the effort that athletes actually give in a sport or in practice. He says that short-term ease creates long-term dependence. removing obstacles before there is any discomfort causes athletes to just react poorly to having any kind of constructive criticism. What have you seen? Would you agree with that? I know I personally do, but what have you seen?

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I would very much agree, and I really liked the post. I heard something said recently, and it really stuck to me that if you were thinking about how I would build a person to be very resilient or to be able to overcome challenge. Well, the only way you could do that was if you put that person through difficulties, through adversities, through situations where maybe they didn't know if they were going to be able to identify how to get through it. Like that's how you would imagine building a person who's resilient. And if that's what we want for our kids or for folks who are developing, well, it would make sense then that they're going to have to experience challenges and adversities. And so you've got sort of that one side. And then on the other side, I think all of us can say like we hate to see it when people we love, friends, family, kids are struggling. When you see somebody struggle, it's like you just want to throw in the life raft and say, like let me help you. Like, I don't want you to have to go through that. Like, that's not fun. So you're kind of battling these two sides of, I want what's best for the people I love, and I don't want them to struggle because it's not fun and it's not enjoyable. But I also know if they don't struggle, then they're not gonna learn and they're not going to develop. And so I think that's the real challenge, especially for parents, is figuring out how much do I give. In terms of like challenge and adversity and some of those situations that aren't gonna go well, and then we can learn from it, and then we can ideally hopefully progress regardless of who you are, that's how life is going to unfold. There's gonna be lot of scenarios and situations that don't go the way you want, that aren't gonna go according to plan, and really your ability to either adapt, to find a new solution, to get creative. That's important. I think that's what's so great about sport, especially at a young level, is it's a it is a very controlled environment. When kids are unsuccessful and they lose or they're not playing well, I used to have coaches all the time who would tell me, Hey, the sun's still gonna come up tomorrow, your parents are still gonna love you tomorrow. Like life's gonna be okay. It's not life or death. And so I think having that perspective of embracing when things don't go well. having the conversation, being able to talk about what didn't go well, how did we handle that? Did we handle it in a way that set us up for success? Or did we handle it in a way that, that wasn't great? And it actually made things worse. And so you have those conversations and allowed for a lot of those moments or those opportunities to grow and develop. And so I think we don't want to lose sight of the ability to take challenge and adversity in a practice, in a game, in a competition setting. And lose out on the ability to learn from it. But I think it's also important how parents are having those conversations. And it ties back to this idea of how are we being more curious, asking better questions, having better conversations post-practice, post-game, and not necessarily heaping on, you know, some of the emotions and some of the frustration that athletes are already feeling by then, I'm frustrated and my coach is frustrated, and my parents are frustrated, and everybody's upset and mad. That's not a great environment to try and figure out how do we learn from this and how do we grow. And sport's a very emotional endeavor. I mean, if you care about something and you care about winning and you care about performing well, like you're gonna get emotional when things either go the way you want or don't go the way you want. And so that's why it's such a fantastic place for us to learn and then hopefully apply some of those skills in life outside of sport. So I think having those conversations, especially as coaches and parents and those who are directly in contact with the kids is incredibly important and realizing that those challenges and those adversities are going to be the things that are gonna help them to develop some of those skills off the court when they get into school and college and beyond where they're gonna experience some of those same adversities and difficulties.

Panther Volleyball: What we have both seen is with the game of volleyball, it is very new to a lot of people. And when you are moving beyond recreational, there are so many rules and stipulations. And when you were talking about letting children struggle and giving them challenges so that they can rise to the occasion, I think that the same is applicable to parents because they are watching their child on the court. They don't see the entire team and what the entire team is doing or what the entire team is building upon. So they might not see the progress that's being made. They have a singular lens. So my thought is: parents need some adversity too in the sport. So that when the conversations happen and their child is upset about playing time and they say, Coach doesn't like me, this is what's happening. So that a parent needs to be able to analyze which what is actually going on and get back to what used to happen when we were playing. And parents are like, try harder. You're not you're not doing this, you're not doing that. I don't know why you're crying to me. You need to talk to your coach. You don't practice at home. There's just like a they completely speak for their child who is not giving them all of the information because they don't see it as an adult or a coach would. So I think that shifting some responsibility to the people that are responsible for the child is very important. Yeah, I mean I think I would agree and As we're diving into this particular portion of the of the discussion, I kind of highlighted myself because I've switched it because I'm a sports kid, I'm a sports parent, right? So understanding that adversity, dealing with that adversity, and even as a parent and as a coach, I know that, like, all right, you've got to deal with some of this stuff on your own. You've got to go talk to your coach. But on the flip side of that coin, when it comes to school, and this is where I think parents might be having a disconnect. I struggled with school growing up. It was always hard for me. So when Camille run into adversity in school, I get anxious about it. I want to be like, all right, like, what's going on? I want them to be smarter than me. What do we gotta do? Like, and it's like it's full on like panic mode where it's like, nah, they can get through this. And then I think that maybe that might be where we could try to bridge that gap is like maybe some of these parents aren't super sport. Parents. Maybe they're not, maybe they're not super athletic. Maybe sports wasn't their thing growing up. So for them, they're looking at it from the outside like, okay, I want them to be successful. What do I got to do to make sure they're successful? And they're they're wanting to overstep. And in sport, it's a lot easier to because you're right there. You have access to the coach almost immediately and instantly, where you can be like, hey, What do I need to do to do this? What do I need to do to do that? Versus pushing your kid towards that coach to have that conversation and deal with that that anxiety of saying, why am I not playing? And maybe not hearing the answer you want to hear. So I don't know, I don't know how we how we help parents understand that. And this conversation could be, could be that bridge to the gap.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, and I think like you said, equipping parents sometimes with just what does that conversation look like? Of how do you almost go a little bit more bird's eye view, try and be objective, but help the kid work through the scenario and essentially work through it together of having them with ask the questions of, hey, it sounds like you are frustrated because you're not getting the playing time you feel like you deserve. Talk to me a little bit about your lens, how are you seeing this? Because it can be very easy, like you said, of when you hear that or see that, to want to jump in the boat with them and say, Well, yeah, it's probably because the coaches don't like you, or because this or this person's favorite. So it's hard to be the objective, hey, let's ask questions and let me see if we can help work through this together, and not necessarily immediately jump to try and make things easier or make them feel better, but also have some of those hard conversations around, yeah, sometimes things don't go the way we like. Sometimes life doesn't feel like it's fair. And so what do we do in those scenarios? Do we throw in the towel? Do we say I want to work harder? Do we you know there's a lot of options that you can pursue. So I think that can be a nice key piece to this of like how do we help parents have better questions and approach Coaches with questions as opposed to sometimes being a little bit more accusatory or demanding in some ways. So I think the ability to be a little bit more curious, ask better questions is always a really great skill, whether it's the parents working with the kids, whether it's the coaches working with the parents, and figuring out like how do we have more of this shared responsibility of like we're both working for the same thing. We both want kids to be successful, we want them to develop, we want them to showcase themselves. on the court and off the court. So how do we be more collaborative as opposed to feeling like, you know, us versus them or either or type approach is what it sounds like.

Panther Volleyball: Like I honestly I think about the Ted Lasso, coach. He's always be curious, always be curious. And I really do feel like that curiosity isn't present right now in sports. I feel like it's more of a People might look at it as more of a business transaction, as you need to fix this. This is what you're coaching for. If you're listening, coaches do not get a lot of money. I'm a middle school coach. I would probably say I get maybe gas money for the entire season. Coaches coach because they enjoy the children and they want to impart something on them. So To not have that open communication is very detrimental to the entire like ecosystem. It doesn't work. It just doesn't work. I've had situations where I've seen, certain parents walk into the gym and like it's just like the joy of the game is sucked from my body because it's more of a, God, what do I have to do with that for the game? So I think that this conversation needs to be had so that any parents that are listening hopefully don't get upset, but take the time to listen and maybe recognize what's happening and look at things from a different perspective. Because we are not singular individuals. We all have to interact. And if you can see something from someone else's perspective, that is the key to understanding a larger situation. let's keep moving. what I've seen when just basically researching is that one of the main things that parents can do is hold their kids accountable at home, give them chores, create expectations. Follow through on what you're going to, do or say if this is happening, if X happens, Y is going to happen. And just make it very simple and plain. Like this guy has been fantastic because he was finally like, look, I've had it. Our kids aren't using the dishwasher anymore because they didn't want to unload it. And it was just like. I'm so sorry that we pay for a house, take you here, there, everywhere. And my God, you have to clean up the dishes. I'm so sorry. But he was finally like, he used his military training. Was just like, this is the way it's gonna go. Suck it up. Too bad, so sad. And I feel like that is it has helped me immensely. And I feel like our kids are. Learning just basics that we grew up doing. You just had responsibilities at home. It wasn't, that's not my plate. You left that out. That's that's my little sisters. This is it was just, well, I guess we may as well. We're not gonna get around it. So, like in your opinion, what are some things that parents can do that might seem very small but would make a big impact?

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I think about when you put this idea of growth and development kind of in perspective. And as we continue to grow, like there's always going to be opportunities to, hey, what are the demands? What are the tasks? What are the things that I'm expected to do, supposed to do? And if we have a clear vision of what that looks like, it's a lot easier to execute. It's a lot easier to accomplish some of those different tasks. And so it's just like you said, sometimes it can be setting up really simple tasks. Identifying and showing, hey, here's the expectations. Here's what we want you to do. Here's what it looks like when it's done well or when it's done right. And as we continue to grow and develop, we love knowing what the expectations are. We love knowing what is going to be demanded of us because then it allows us to work towards that. And so if it's as simple as, hey, here's some of the chores of what it looks like to make your bed in the morning, of what it looks like to clean up dishes or to take out the trash or whatever that might be. Establishing some of those simple demands and some of those simple expectations, and then when they follow through, giving them the praise of what that looks like to accomplish something and to do a job to the level that is expected, that helps to build some of that consistency and some of that confidence. on the flip side of that, if there's expectations and they're not met, then the accountability piece that you highlighted comes into effect there, where okay, this is what we agreed upon. This is what we said is going to happen or when it's gonna happen or how it's gonna happen. It didn't work out that way. So what are we gonna do as a result of that? And once again it's having some of those conversations and walking through the steps of well what do you think should happen? If you were in my position and somebody didn't do something to the level that was expected, what would you do? Yeah. Yeah, right. Easier said than done, 100%.

Panther Volleyball: You don't have kids. I don't know.

Brad Marshall: But that can be the di most difficult part.

Panther Volleyball: No.

Brad Marshall: I know I find that even as an adult of if there's things that are expectations or things that you have that are the standard and they're not met, having that conversation is really awkward and difficult and it's not fun. so I think that's the not fun part about like you said, being a parent or having to correct or guide people in the right direction. But we also know that. As we go through life, like we're going to come across a lot of those situations where things don't go the way we want. We didn't live up to a certain standard. And that accountability is really important to impress upon people, hey, what we establish matters, or how you act in these scenarios matter. And so we want to build some of those good habits and good behaviors so that when they transition out of sport, whenever that is for them, and now they're looking at high school and college or life beyond. They start to have that awareness of, yeah, when things are asked of me or demanded and there's a a level that I'm supposed to hit, now I know, hey, that is what I'm striving towards. If I don't hit it, well, there's probably gonna be some consequences. And and this is where you start to get into some of those motivation type conversations where some people are really motivated by the outcome of, hey, I want the good job and the praise or the reward, whatever that is. Some people are really motivated by I just want to avoid the punishment or I want to avoid getting in trouble or whatever that is. And that could certainly be different ways that people behave as they navigate life, but having some of those simple tasks, simple things that you can start to drive some of those kids as they develop towards accountability, towards executing and being able to accomplish those tasks can be really helpful. And then you get to have some of those conversations, both good and bad, of whether things are going the way that you've established and have agreed upon that they that they should go. So I think those are really meaningful things that they can do outside of sport that aren't related at all, but that still can have an impact in the way they show up on the field and obviously in life outside of the court as well.

Panther Volleyball: You're flying perfectly in here. that same post. there's a couple of quotes in there, and they are really nice tidbits. He says that achievement teaches performance when someone is watching, and contribution teaches to function when no one is watching. So These things seem very, very small, but I think as children mature, they'll contribute more than look for like external praise. In terms of setting up those small tasks and things like that, what I think is interesting about kids these days is it is all about praise. how I was brought up, these are things you're supposed to do. maybe you get, thanks for cleaning the kitchen one time, but now this is now the standard. So this is what you're supposed to do. And this is day five of of the week, and I've cleaned the kitchen like I was supposed to. And then, kids nowadays are like, well, wow, you didn't say I did a good job. So did I do a bad job? no, you just did what you were supposed to do. So let's let's move on. You've set a new standard. Now, if you exceed that standard, then it's time for me to pay attention. And I think that's something that we actually ran into in our club season, is like the kids went out, second place, first tournament, first place, second tournament, and then we kind of had some ebbs and flows and some dips. And They proved to us where they could play and then as coaches we're like, all right, this is this is now the new standard. And so when they don't and they see frustration on our face, they think we hate them and we don't. We're just we're just trying to s let you make you understand that like, no, no, you guys play up here and now we're playing down here. So What do we need to do? What do we need to say to get you motivated and stuff like that? And I think that was probably one of our biggest challenges. And I think this conversation is where if you have the I don't want to say the right parents, but parents that understand what has happened and what's currently going on, they help. they help bridge that communication gap or that that fear or that frustration that they're having when they see us frustrated. you want a parent to be like, Well, I know you think coach doesn't like you, but two tournaments ago we just got first place and second place and you guys played like world beaters and now it looks like we're just out here having fun in a rec game. Like and I know they probably won't communicate it like that. That's kind of like our our communication language to our kids. But I think that's one of the things that is like, how do we help them understand that mentality outside of the court? And once it's all said and done, like, all right, well, how do I process this? How do I, how do I compartmentalize maybe even some or and say, all right, what are the things that I need to focus on to do better? What are some of the things that, I can just put to the side and like you said, it it'll be a tomorrow's a new day. don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

Brad Marshall: Yeah. Yeah, I think about that a lot in terms of just teams, organizations, and how people perform at a high level. One is they do have essentially what you say is their standards, or like what are our expectations or what is the minimum that we ask of our people here? And for some it can feel very easy of like, we wanna we wanna win all of our games. But I think really great teams and organizations get a little bit more granular, if you will, and they start to look at well, what are the things that we have the control over? What are the things that we can definitely show up each time and make sure we're focusing on whether that's the attitude we come in with, the effort we're putting forth, the way we communicate with each other, because you could have all the things going in the right direction and just play a team that for whatever reason that day has just a better hand than you. But you can still fall back on we met our standard that we've all agreed to, that we showed up with great energy, we communicated well, we were able to bounce back as best as possible when things didn't go the way we wanted. And so if you have this idea of what the standard is, then it's easy to say either we are exceeding it or we're hitting it, or hey, we're not hitting it today. And the wins and losses can essentially take care of themselves. Ideally, if you're hitting the standard and doing things at a high level, then hopefully the successes come as well. But that can be one of the, if you want to call it a trap, of only focusing on outcomes as a direct reflection of whether or not we're hitting or not the standard. Just because as you play better competition or get into different settings, the wins and losses could go either direction. But I love this idea of standards being more focused on the things that you have control over, the things that you can identify if they're going well or not going well, and that if an organization or a team's really performing well, not only has the coach outlined it, but the players have bought into it in such a way that they can actually start to police themselves of, hey, these are where we want to be and we're not there. And this is where you have captains and you have leaders who emerge who can hold the team accountable. So it doesn't feel like The coach is always the one pulling or pushing to get them to that level. but that's all part of that unique structure of a team of all right, what are our standards? Are we all in agreement? This is it. If we've got leaders, how are they continuing to help? How are the parents also continuing to help? So I think that all centers around that idea of how are we continually working towards what's our baseline of what is the minimum that we're expecting from practices. at games, whatever that might be, and then how are we having all people pull us or keep us accountable to that throughout the course of a season?

Panther Volleyball: Actually, while you guys were discussing that, in an ideal utopian sporting society, I know that us as parents, I would not have an issue and I would think that it would be absolutely fantastic The coach has standards and expectations for the season for that player. The player has expectations and standards for the season. But I feel like it would be even more important for a knowledgeable parent to say, Hey, what are our expectations as a family for your growth in the season? What do you expect to get out of it? what are we going to work on? What are some, what will we I don't want to say tolerate, but what will we tolerate as far as behavior? What do we expect you to do in your practices? What do we expect you to put into it so you can get out of it what you expect? I don't think parents do that.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I think that's a great conversation to have because to be honest, people compete in sport for a variety of reasons as well. some people, it's their opportunity to be social and interact with other people and it's fun and engaging, and they might not have that strong drive of, hey, I want to win a championship or I want to go get a scholarship somewhere. And you have other players who maybe that is something that is really meaningful for them if they want to perform to a certain level and see how far they can go in the sport in high school or college or beyond. And so being able to be aware of what the athlete wants to get out of the experience, what the parent wants to get out of the experience, or what the athlete, what they want their child to get out of the experience can be really helpful and meaningful because if you have a parent who's expecting the kid to be the star of the team and be a star on the high school team and get a scholarship, and the kid just wants to have fun and enjoy it and isn't worried about winning or losing, then that disconnect is going to be challenging to navigate. Same thing for, coaches with the players of if you can establish what their role, what the responsibility is going to be, here's what we want from you this year. Here's how we feel like you're going to be able to best impact the team. So the athlete is aware and knows, okay, I'm a role player or hey, they're going to be calling on me to probably be a little bit stronger on the offensive side or on the defensive side. And I want to live up to that. All of those conversations, so everybody's on the same page, are gonna be helpful to making sure that the experience goes well. But then, like you said, that hey, we're hitting the minimum effective dose, if you will, or what's the expectation for the amount of effort we're putting in and the time we're putting in and how we're practicing or how we're trying to develop maybe outside of practice or games. because that's all gonna be different depending on the family and depending on the athlete. And so Having those conversations can make that go a little bit smoother, I think, especially in those environments.

Panther Volleyball: I did share another post with you from Coach Riley, and I found it really interesting because it talked about both sides of the coin. It talks about what athletes owe parents and what parents owe athletes. So I'll just go through those and then we can kind of break them down and dive deeper into those. but what athletes owe parents. consistent effort, speaking up honestly and truthfully, providing the whole picture and showing respect consistently. Now, what parents owe athletes, according to Coach Riley. Calm after a game, creating conditions to help them succeed, which we've discussed, and keeping the bigger picture in view instead of focusing on small, minute details. So let's go back to what athletes owe parents. And where would you like to start with that? Because if we start with effort, we're gonna take another hour.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I I like what Coach Riley spoke to here because I do think if somebody is going to invest their time or their energy into an activity regardless of what it is, and in this case sport or in volleyball, then ideally you want them to commit to, hey, I'm going to put energy and effort and time into this endeavor to see where I can go, what I can get out of it. And so I think from The athletes' perspective, if they're going to say, I want to be a part of this team, and we know what the standards of being part of this team are and what we're striving towards and what we're working towards, one they ideally are going to be meeting those. And in doing so, I think that leads to, like you said, some of that consistent effort of I'm going to go to the practices and I'm going to show up and maybe even do some work outside if that is an expectation on the team, or I'm going to work out or train

Panther Volleyball: It is.

Brad Marshall: or whatever it is, right. And so I think that's important from the athlete perspective. And if they feel that they're at a point in time where maybe it's not for them anymore, maybe it's just something that isn't fulfilling in the way that it maybe it used to be or they'd like it to be. I think that's where that having an honest honest conversation with their parent comes into play of, hey, I I would I as much as I loved it or maybe it was good for me for a time, it's not anymore. And I can't live up to the standard of what the team has said. or what the expectations are of you. And so those are those tough conversations where maybe it's not the right time or place to be a part of this team or there's a different team where the standards are maybe different. And so I think that's important from the athlete perspective of if we know what is expected of them, we know what they're supposed to be putting into in terms of time, energy, and effort, then being able to meet that consistently is gonna really important to make sure that that experience goes well because if they're time and time again not living up to that, then the coaches are gonna get frustrated, their teammates are gonna get frustrated, the parents are gonna get frustrated, and then it all kind of comes tumbling back down onto them, and then that can get into a really tough scenario or tough situation there. So I think from the athlete's perspective, that's what I would encourage is be fully aware of what is being asked of you. And if you can meet those demands, fantastic. If you can't, then that might be with some opportunity to have some of those conversations with coaches and with parents around is this the right team or the environment for me to be in, or do I need to find a different opportunity?

Panther Volleyball: Let's go back to what parents owe athletes. again, it's calm after a game, not immediately getting into the car and you screwed this up or you we've worked on this at home. How could you basketball wise, how could you miss all your free throws? and creating conditions to help them succeed, which we've touched on quite a bit today, and keeping the bigger. in view instead of focusing on something very small. What do you have to contribute to those viewpoints?

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I've heard it said time and time again that two of the most powerful statements that a parent can express to their kid after a game, one is I'm proud of you, and two, I really enjoy watching you play. And if you start with those two statements, a lot of what happens after that can be a lot more beneficial in terms of building the athlete up and continuing to see them succeed. I mean obviously the kid wants to do well. I mean, all of us who've played a sport and we step on that floor like you want to win. You're not trying to miss a layup. You're not trying to miss that shot or miss that dig in volleyball. They're not purposefully trying to mess up. And so the idea that pounding on them or giving them, your opinion or your thoughts really isn't necessarily making it better. Because if they try if they wanted to lose, then it didn't make sense for them to be on the floor. So they want to do well. They're trying to do well. And so I think from both the coaches can be the ones to perhaps hold some more accountability or figure out hey, is this a skill gap? Is this just like a mindset gap of when the pressure spikes up or the stress spikes, there's some technical or different issues there. I think from the parents' perspective, this is where they have an opportunity to try and build some of that confidence. And so, you know, the way that Coach Riley says it is to stay calm, but I think just having more of just a an objective, open demeanor, showing care, showing empathy. If there is a win, obviously match the excitement. If there's a loss, match some of the frustration or anger. And then, like we said, I think asking the athlete if they want to talk about it. is a fantastic place to start. I know personally when I was an athlete, right after a game, I didn't really have a desire to talk about what just happened, especially if it didn't go well. Like I would wanted some time to like process, maybe do some things on my own, hang out with friends, and then I could start to talk about it. So asking the athlete, hey, do you want to talk about the game? If they say yeah, and then you can start to ask some questions about tell me what it was like for you or what was your experience or What was going through your head in some of these different moments? Like those are great questions to gain better understanding, as opposed to just sharing your perspective as a parent. And so asking the athlete if they're open to talking about it, asking questions to get their perspective and building some empathy. And then once again, even asking, hey, would you like me to share what I saw or what I witnessed? And if they say yes, then I think you can share in a constructive way. maybe what your perspective was from the stands and see if that aligns with what they see it as. But I think there's a lot of opportunity for parents to build confidence because if you can see in a moment where it didn't go well or they're frustrated, sometimes you can instill some of that belief in them of, hey, I know I've seen you succeed in these moments before, or I've seen the time and the effort you're putting into practice. I know you're really close to being able to perform the way you want. So sometimes it's that opportunity to instill some confidence or belief in themselves. Sometimes it's an opportunity to just wallow in the frustration and the sadness of sport with them. Sometimes you get to enjoy the highs and the successes. So I think as parents, it's a little bit more of a mirroring opportunity as opposed to just simply telling them what you're thinking if you're frustrated or if you're angry. because it usually doesn't go so well. after a really emotionally charged event.

Panther Volleyball: I think what's important in that situation as well when parents are communicating to their kids that it helps if you're a parent that has done a little bit of research into the sport that they're actually playing and you can actually contribute. and something that I find to be a challenge is we get a very finite amount of time with the with the children. We can have practices where they come in and they're really not trying in practice. So when you as a parent come to a game and you're just like, well, what? She's not well, her self-esteem, I'm like, your child entered my gym. I hadn't even spoken to her yet, deciding that she was not going to give any effort. You drove her here. I didn't. So Things are happening before you've arrived to this gym that need to be improved on. And we can work as a team. But I would like for people to be more realistic and consider that this does not all fall on one person. But as far as feedback and things like that. We came from a different generation. I know that you didn't get the opportunity to say, you know what, Dad, I don't want to talk about it right now. Because he had dad coach that would we're not gonna say cheat, but cheat in the driveway. Yeah, we will. While they're working on basketball skills. So have at it. I know these are great stories. Well, I knew. It just made me think back to a lot of different things in in terms of, my sports career as, a young athlete. And one that popped to mind when we were having this conversation is, what parents owe the kids. And I had one game, it was my senior year, first game of the season. I mean, we beat this team, they had a division one lineman, I Intercepted the pitch on the options, scored a 77-yard touchdown, and we I mean we handled this team pretty well, right? Not exactly numbers. Game is over, like well over. And you me and one of my friends, we kind of slapped off or took a playoff. It was it wasn't important, but the coach that I had, it was important because we were on the field. We come off the field, you guys didn't do nothing to contribute to this win. And I'm, keeping it PG because he said some very colorful words. you're not this, you're not that. You guys just wasted your time being here. And I'm like, what is happening? And it meant a lot to me because I had a lot of, and this is where we talked about the part of that was having respect. for your coaches and even having respect for your parents and what you owe your parents. And when I hear that, to me, the way I was brought up, I'm a representation of not just the team, but my family and my parents. So then when you're telling me I didn't do anything to contribute, like no, that's not good. I get over to the sideline, my mom and dad are there, they're cheering. I look, I'm about to cry. They're like, What is wrong? And they're like, Coach said I didn't do anything to help this win because I messed up on this one block. And they were like, dude, it's okay. But that's the lesson learned is this. because I was I I didn't have like I said, Evan said I didn't have a choice but to listen to feedback regardless of how I felt. And to me, I think that's good too. And and sometimes it can be bad. But for me, I was just like, they were like, You did fine, but the lesson is. Don't ever take a playoff. And I was like, well, I guess you kind of have a point there. But it was still I was crushed. we just won. I scored a touchdown. I was, supposed to be happy. And then the coach hit me with the reality of, hey, no, the game's not over till it's over, even if you're winning. okay. That's an interesting perspective at that time in that age. So here's

Brad Marshall: Yeah.

Panther Volleyball: here's my interjection and Quasi question. Okay. Did your parents go to the coach and yell at the coach or go and and were they upset that he said something to you? That struck a nerve and didn't make you feel a hundred percent confident in what you were doing. Of course not. Like, and I think that's one of the the biggest differences, I think, in the way all of us were brought up is that there is this more is a more community feel of how you were brought up and how you were raised. If you went to a friend's house and it was a a true friend and you started to cut up, their parents knew that they could take care of you and discipline you and tell you what was right and wrong and not have any issue. Same thing when you go join a sports team. all right, I am putting my child in your care. You know how to handle them. If they if they're not acting right, then you handle it. And now it's like it's almost kid gloves. You have to be very careful with what you say, how you say it. Because there are feelings and they're very big. And when feelings get hurt, then that's where we're missing this gap where parents are like, I need to protect my child. I need to make sure they, aren't being coached too harshly. And and and the reality of it is once you step into a good quality high school team and start to, transition into college, coaching is coaching. And there's no one there to protect you, and you have to deal with some of these things on their own. And it is a little bit more challenging now at this young age to try to really coach hard. because a lot of people don't understand that. and it's not coming from a place of hate or or disgust or anything like that. It's trying to prepare your kids for something outside of the world of sport when you really can when you really look at it.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I think that's one of the big challenges around coaching is adapting to the players that are in front of you. And you know, on you start to develop or understand which players you can be harder on and maybe have higher expectations and what are some of those players that maybe you have to be the one who tries to instill some confidence and belief and maybe there's a little more coddling that happens there just because you know if you came down on them the same way you did on another athlete that they might crumble in that scenario. So as coaches, it it can be difficult because you've got the standard like we've talked about for the team, but then how you interact individually with these athletes is gonna be a little bit different, athlete to athlete. And I think that's what makes a coach's job so difficult and tough. And then like you said, if you layer on there, the way that you interact with the team and the way that you interact with these athletes. how that perhaps then impacts the parents and what they're saying or how they're working with folks. So I think you know it comes back to this idea of communicating standards and expectations of if you're a coach and maybe it's something that you are struggling with, seeing if there's an opportunity to establish some of your norms and expectations for parents and how they interact with you and with the team of hey, if there's something that you want to discuss, maybe you're the type that says we want to have a more formal process. It's gonna happen when you reach out via email or text and we set up a time for it. It's not going to be before or after games. It's not gonna be directly after practice where you're caught off guard. So I think establishing some of those norms and then making sure that parents and athletes are adhering to and following up on it could perhaps make a better environment for everybody because it is tough. especially when emotions are involved and everybody cares about performance and how people are doing and feelings and things like that. It's a it's such a unique experience why which is why I think it teaches so many life lessons. it can be difficult because if you get the wrong coach, you get the wrong parent, all of a sudden things fall apart or the wrong athlete, and it's amazing what that does and how detrimental that can be for the whole experience.

Panther Volleyball: This is the part where like you've already answered so many of the other questions. So I'm trying to figure out how to wrap it up I'm trying to come up with one final question to really wrap things up, and I would like for you to go ahead. And take that area because I've talked quite a bit. One final question. I don't know. I guess I'll try to piece it together here in my mind because I'm really trying to apply some of these things to myself because I have kids and we want to relate to the parents that we're working with. And I guess like what is one thing that or maybe even a couple of things, what are some things that you think that as a as a parent or somebody outside of the sporting world? I know you don't have kids, but what is one thing parents could possibly do or a couple of things that will really help them understand a coach's perspective and understand the goals that the team are trying to accomplish and then how to better support their kid off the course so that way when they come into the gym to perform, then as coaches we help them deal with that type of either performance anxiety or that mental toughness. Like how do we help prepare parents to help their kids be more mentally tough outside the gym or the court of the field? So that way when they step onto the court, us preparing them there is a little bit easier.

Brad Marshall: Mm-hmm. Yeah. One of the things that comes to mind is a mental skill that a lot of folks strive to improve, which is this idea of confidence. And people are like, well, what is confidence? How do we build it? You either have it or you don't. And at its core, confidence is that you have a belief that you are capable of accomplishing whatever the task is that's in front of you. Whether it's to hit a serve at a specific point in the game, to be able to execute a certain play, set the ball, whatever, finish the point. So if you have a belief that you have the skill and the competency and everything to be able to accomplish that, it's a good thing. Usually means we're gonna perform a little bit better. For most athletes, it's one of the things that comes up, I would say, most frequently, is that if we're not performing as well as we like, we've had a couple bad plays or a few things didn't go the way we planned, all of a sudden we say, I I don't have confidence anymore. Got a lot of doubts, a lot of insecurities that I'm working through. And so I think parents can do a really fantastic job of helping their kids navigate those scenarios because you're gonna have moments you're not confident getting ready for a test that's coming up at school or interacting with some of your friends or being asked to do different challenges, and they're like, I don't know if I can handle that. And so I think parents can do a an a impressive job of talking to your kids, figuring out, okay, well, let's let's look at this together. Have you done this before? Do you have some experience? Yeah. Okay. Can we pull on that to build some of that belief? you haven't ever done this before? Okay. Well, what are some things you've done that are similar? Have you been in some tough scenarios on the court or in the classroom and you found a way and you got a good grade or you were able to execute? you did. So you've proven you can do it over here. Or sometimes as a parent, it's your job to then build some of that belief of like, well, I've seen you putting in time and putting in effort and working on your game, or I've seen you go to practice for how long this year? Like you have the ability to do this. So sometimes that that voice that's in our head can be impacted by parents, by coaches, by others. And we obviously want the athletes to be able to do it themselves, but I think for some that's how we build. mental toughness is that you've got this ability, you've got this belief that you can handle different situations. And perhaps it is the volleyball court that taught you how to be confident and now you've taken that to the classroom and now you've taken that to your first judge. And all those other scenarios that follow along. And so I think parents can tie some of those different experiences together and help people to build some of that belief, especially when They feel really down or they feel like they haven't been performing well or they're really not sure of who they are, how they're going to operate. Parents can do a really meaningful job in helping build confidence, build belief by sometimes just having those conversations and seeing where they're at and instilling them or pointing to or guiding them in the direction of of having some more confidence and some more mental toughness that they can handle tough scenarios. So that's one thing I think about as it relates to getting people ready and having to be more resilient and and more confident, especially as they navigate the court and life outside of the court.

Panther Volleyball: So I'm gonna add because I feel like this is I I figured it out. I f this is this is the perfect way to kind of encapsulate what we've been talking about today. And I'm going to pull on your experience that we talk about often, very often. So let's talk about you struggling a little bit in school. Okay. You receiving help and the instructions that your dad gave your mom in order for you to succeed. I mean, this is a real short answer. Let him fail. and I think it's it's and this is if as anything that kind of gives me anxiety is the girls in school. and making sure they do well. They're super smart like their mom. very thankful for that. I struggled in school. It was hard. It was very challenging for me. reading comprehension level was low. it was good in math, but then, you throw words in a problem and it's like, great. This is definitely not what I wanted to do. And it had gotten to a point where like basically my mom helped me all through junior high school. If it wasn't for her, I don't know if I would have made it out. and I did experience a point of pure failure. my ninth grade year, I was, basketball player, tried out, made the basketball team, wasn't doing what I was supposed to do school, didn't have the right grade point average, and I had to sit. And that was probably the most embarrassing thing that I've ever had to deal with in my life. Like that's probably one of the biggest failures I've ever had. And after that, I was like, what, school is challenging, but I'm not gonna ever let that happen again. And school was still a struggle, even through high school, but I got to my senior year and I've made it a point to be like, you know what, I've got a lot of people out here that are supporting me and helping me, and I'm gonna graduate with a B. And I scratched, kicked, clawed, studied, did everything that I could possibly do, and I literally graduated with a 3.0, like on the dot. On the dot. With a B. And that's one of my like proudest academic accomplishments. And it's one of those things where, you look at it and you go, Man, I I could have easily just, phoned it in and walked out of high school with a C, but B's a whole lot better, And there like you said, there's those moments where you show that like, yeah, you are capable. And if you put enough of those together. then it all kind of turns out right. So I think that's kind of what happened with me, they weren't all perfect, but I put enough of those moments where it's like, dude, you you can do this, you know this. And I had strung them together just enough to get to where I wanted to be. Not even where I needed to be. It's just something where I I I didn't need to a be to graduate, not high school. I was pretty much done, but I wanted it and and I went and got it. So I was, you know, cool experience at a young age. So we said all that. For this what hour to say this to parents? Let them fail. Let them fail. And they'll eventually figure it out. Give them the opportunity to struggle. And Watch how much improves when you see them give some effort and energy because struggle is uncomfortable. So at the end of the day, very simple, let them feel.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, I love it.

Panther Volleyball: Thank you so much, Brad. Yeah. Thank you so much, Brad, for your time and your expertise. Cause in my opinion, you have a doctorate in brain stuff. So that's really helpful to me. That's really helpful to my kids. That's really helpful to my players. So I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down and talk to us. Yeah, appreciate it.

Brad Marshall: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It was a fantastic conversation and excited to see how the Panther volleyball team continues to excel in the upcoming season.

Panther Volleyball: All right. Thank you so much for listening.