Dwight Brooks: According to radio and TV personality Marcus Chapman, finding complete books about African-American bands from the 1970s is a much harder task than it should be. Trenton Bailey's detailed examination of the greatest of those bands is. Is essential reading for anyone who loves the music of Earth, Wind, and Fire. Welcome to Tracking Earth, Wind and Fire, the ultimate deep dive into the music, the musicians, and the enduring legacy of Earth, Wind and Fire. I'm your host, Doc Brooks. Thanks for tuning in. Subscribe. Follow the podcast playlist on Spotify. And whatever suggestions you might have, I'm available at tracking T R A C K I N G EWF at gmail.com. I'm delighted to present part two of Do You Remember with my guest, author and historian, Professor Trenton Bailey. Welcome back. We ended our last episode with 1979's release of I Am and the Death of. of Mother Dear So before we resume our discussion of the band's iconic album covers and gatefolds, tell us about the television advertising campaign between Earth, Wind and Fire and Panasonic. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Okay, yeah, I think right before or after they recorded Faces, Maurice White signed on to an advertising campaign with Panasonic, in which like another example of Afrofuturism, like they were coming from outer space, bringing this good music through the boom boxes, The campaign ads, lined up with their futuristic, sound and style. Dwight Brooks: Right. Trenton Bailey, PhD: So of course once again a display of Afro futurism. they did three television ads for Panasonic, in which they come from outer space, bringing the good music, bringing the funk to earthlings. Dwight Brooks: Yeah, Maurice White claimed that he wasn't into the commercialization of the band for most products. and he said Panasonic was different because he considered it a part of the music industry. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right, right. Dwight Brooks: And Panasonic if you remember their tagline was slightly ahead of our time or something to that effect. And so they did come they did have sort of a futuristic campaign Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right. Yeah. So it's talk one time. Mm-hmm. Dwight Brooks: 'cause the boom box, believe it or not, then was no we had never Trenton Bailey, PhD: Yeah. Dwight Brooks: seen everybody had bulky stereos or, little cassette players. it was one of the rare campaigns that tied the band to any particular product. They were involved in the concerts as well as as well as the music videos that they did. We'll talk about music videos, I think, a little bit later. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm-hmm. Dwight Brooks: So the release of Faces in 1980, a double album, the first double album since 1975's Gratitude, which was an explicit expression of thanks from the band. That was in 75. before we talk about the music of Faces. I'm glad you quoted Maurice White's message in their liner notes. I'm gonna read that because I think it's one of the most powerful short messages that a musician has ever put in an album, liner notes. In respect to these changing times, this offering of our creative efforts is presented to acquaint man with his many brothers and sisters around the world. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Live so close to one. Dwight Brooks: We live so close, yet so far away. Fear has been our separator. We live now in a new age dawning upon technology, higher consciousness, higher elevation of space, and higher ideas In this age the true essence of sharing should be acknowledged. It is time for man to understand that we share the same sun and we are all essentially the same with different names. Around the world, the most enjoyed vibration is that of a smile. Through our smiles, we touch the heart of our fellow man. Together, let's lift our planet to a higher vibration. In love, we stand. And as you note in your book, not only was society experiencing turmoil with the U.S. boycott of the Olympics in Russia, the Iran hostage crisis, and Ronald Reagan's presidency about to begin, the music industry was also changing dramatically. Specifically, CBS Records underwent massive internal upheaval. Maurice White talks about that in his memoir. but in that context, let's talk about the Faces Gatefold, very unique. Trenton Bailey, PhD: On the faces gatefold, you see the band members and the faces of people of various walks of life, you know, different races, creeds. And they are surrounded by another pyramid once again with this vortex lit up. So this represents the brotherhood of man and enlightenment. Dwight Brooks: I love those faces. I don't know, if they were just drawings the album itself was just fascinating to me. Trenton Bailey, PhD: I I have to say Faces is one of my favorites. Even though it wasn't commercially successful as the other, the music on Faces, I really love it. Dwight Brooks: well let's turn to some of the songs. I'll let you talk about it, despite the critical praise and earning gold status, so it sold half million copies. faces underperformed according to Earth Wind and Fire standards, at least by their standards. The lead single, Let Me Talk, in Maurice White's words, bombed. What's your take on songs like Love Goes On, Share Your Love, Turn It Into Something Good, and You Went Away? Trenton Bailey, PhD: Like said, I I like those songs They all you know sound positive. You know, they got that distinctive, classic earth, wind and fire, sound to it. I couldn't understand why it didn't sell as well. But like like you said, going into a new decade, people probably wasn't people probably only related them to the seventies. So I'm I'm not sure. And it was also a double album. At that time people weren't really, buying double albums. But I think my one of my favorites from that album is You. It c it has the same style as After the Love Is Gone. And another one I like is In Time. There are a lot of good songs on this album. I just can't understand why, more people don't talk about, faces, especially Earth Wind & Fire fans. 'Cause I'm sure they have at least, listened to it. if you're a true fan of Earth Wind and Fire, but Right, right. Dwight Brooks: Yeah, I've I've seen a lot of positive comments on the the different groups that I follow or a part of. They talk about the album. now Maurice White actually had a I won't call it a theory, but he mentions that radio stations did not embrace the album. clearly audiences did not. and Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm. Dwight Brooks: again, I think we have to put this in the context in the changing society, a changing industry. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right, Dwight Brooks: People at that time, I think, were less and less using radio to make their Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm-hmm. Dwight Brooks: choices about music, or at least in that process where they didn't have to use radio. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right, right. Dwight Brooks: but clearly the the album underperformed in what is a dramatically changing music industry. I think CBS didn't promote the album because of some of the internal changes that were going on. but One of the things that I've read and I agree, Earth Wind and Fire was not just competing in a changing industry, they were competing against itself. the record labels want you to do better each time. Right? How can you outdo this? How can you outdo Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right, right, right. Yeah. Dwight Brooks: that? And at a certain point, you're at your ceiling, in terms of topping your last album. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right. Yeah. Am I mistaken, but didn't Maurice White say that faces was his favorite? Dwight Brooks: He could have. I know he was really bewildered by its underperformance. I think you're right now that I think about that. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right. Yep. Mm-hmm. Dwight Brooks: right around that time, in fact, Maurice White does make clear that there were the beginning of the tensions, or at least growing tensions, between him and rhythmic guitarist Al McKay. And in fact, in Trenton Bailey, PhD: Al McKay. Al McKay, yeah. Yeah. How after he recorded Dwight Brooks: their concert tour, they went Trenton Bailey, PhD: it? Dwight Brooks: to South America, came up through Mexico, McKay left the band and Trenton Bailey, PhD: Yeah. Dwight Brooks: had to be replaced because they had a show to do in Mexico, I believe it was, but he was replaced by Roland Bautista, who played with them back in the early 70s, Trenton Bailey, PhD: days. Right. Dwight Brooks: 72 and 73, before he left. but in White's words, losing Al McKay was a big loss. And in his words, the end Of an era. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm. Dwight Brooks: The question is, could they bounce back? Dr. Bailey says they did. In 1981, they released Raise! So let's talk about Trenton Bailey, PhD: They did. They did. Let's Groove Dwight Brooks: the cover of that album, which I've got right back there on the wall somewhere. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Yes. On the front cover you see what seems to be a noble or royal woman in a sarcophagus. It's like a hyper hypermodern. One side is like futuristic and the other is, ancient. But a sarcophagus Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: is when it this represents like You people were a a sarcophagus is basically a coffin. It's the Greek word for a coffin. So that's where people were, buried and it also represents where the soul was reborn or resurrected. And on the back side you see the same thing, but it looks more futuristic. Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: At that time, Computers were starting to take over the music industry and Maurice White, noticed that. So, changes in style in sound 'cause on Let's Groove, at the beginning you hear the Vulcator style. We can boogie down. So Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: and the Let's Groove video, you see them like in a space setting in outer space, dancing in like the rubbery, Space suits counter, so they were still on that kind of Afro-futuristic Dwight Brooks: Mm. Mm. they used their illustrator Shushi Nakayoka, who did a lot of their albums in the in the seventies, and Trenton Bailey, PhD: Really, right. Right. Dwight Brooks: used a designer, I'm not familiar with his work, Roger Carpenter, designed that particular album. I remember going, I saw the tour in Champaign Urbana, Illinois, the Raise! tour Let's Groove was the the the big hit, right? and they went through the whole concert and didn't play it. And so that was their encore hit. So they left the stage and of course people were like, hey you gotta do Let's Groove and they come back Trenton Bailey, PhD: Here's the Dwight Brooks: on as you say and do Let's Groove. that was released in 1981 in September. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Yeah. Dwight Brooks: But as I suggested earlier, there were some interesting backstories with some of the band members and the writers Maurice was starting to bring in at that time. people like Beloyd Taylor, Wayne Vaughan, who eventually married one of the emotions. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Why Wanda Hutchison, yeah. Wanda Hudson, yeah. Dwight Brooks: there's also the issue of Let's Groove Music Video. At that time, MTV wasn't playing black artists. Trenton Bailey, PhD: That's right. Yeah, cause they were the first one to be played on BET's Video Soul. Video Dwight Brooks: Right. Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Soul was the is where you saw all the black artists. 'Cause in in Dwight Brooks: Right, right. Trenton Bailey, PhD: eighty one when MTV started, they said that they were not gonna play any black artists, but they caught a lot of flack for that, but they had to eventually Dwight Brooks: They did. Trenton Bailey, PhD: give in. Dwight Brooks: Yeah, it was interesting. I'm gonna get into that in a later episodes 'cause it really impacted not just super bands like Earth, Wind and Fire, but obviously people like Michael Jackson, Prince, who had eventually eventually aired. Trenton Bailey, PhD: When this yeah. Yeah. Dwight Brooks: the last point that surfaced around that time, I would be remiss. I don't like to get into the personal stuff, but it was important to Maurice White. He wrote about it a little bit in his his memoir. That was his growing awareness of younger brother Freddie's drug use. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm. Dwight Brooks: and he talks about that because he made the decision to keep him in the band. despite his no tolerance for drugs, despite other members of the band really accusing him of nepotism, which is quite true. He said he made a decision. Trenton Bailey, PhD: That's his brother, yeah. Dwight Brooks: it's his brother and he's a great drummer. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right, right. Dwight Brooks: Maurice, I remember him mentioning in the memoir he only missed a couple, a couple of of concerts, or I I don't know how many Al McKay missed, but I think he missed at least one. But anyway, he he made the decision and he I think expressed some regret for doing so. he just made the decision to keep Freddie in the band. who eventually went and played, I believe, with Al McKay's tribute band or whatever they call it, that's a whole nother story that I'm gonna get into. I'm still researching that anything that that you wanna talk about? I know you talked a little bit in your book about the tour raise, which as I mentioned I happen to see that. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Yeah, tour raise, that was another great tour sold out in every city. And also I wanna talk about some of the songs on the album. Lotta folks don't know that Wanna Be With You won a Grammy. Dwight Brooks: That's one of my favorites. I'm sure everybody's favorites, you know. Trenton Bailey, PhD: And one of my favorites on this song is I've had enough. Dwight Brooks: I've had enough, yeah. Trenton Bailey, PhD: And also I like Lady Sun also. I think Lady Sun, the meaning, you could be talking about a woman Who you need in your life, like the sun, and you can also be it have a reverence for the sun itself, which gives, like you Dwight Brooks: Right. Trenton Bailey, PhD: said, life to all organisms on the planet. So like a double entundra, but I like Lady Sun also. So I like the album. Dwight Brooks: Good, good. Yeah, yeah, great album. Wanna Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm-hmm. Dwight Brooks: Be With You, everybody knows that. I do agree, I've had enough is an underrated hit. I don't know, you may know, if they released any of those as singles. Lady Sun, I don't think they did. and see that Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm not as simple. No, no, I'm just saying. Mm mm. Dwight Brooks: that I think in part was because singles were becoming less and less popular. People didn't buy singles, they bought albums. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dwight Brooks: So let's go to Power Light, released Trenton Bailey, PhD: Powerlight Dwight Brooks: in 1983. Trenton Bailey, PhD: That's right. Dwight Brooks: your read, your interpretation of the album cover. I know you talk about the chakras, The centers Trenton Bailey, PhD: chakras, yeah. Dwight Brooks: of the body that connect people, and you can see that in the image of the album, but I'll let you Trenton Bailey, PhD: You know Yeah, Dwight Brooks: Go ahead. Trenton Bailey, PhD: on the album cover you have a man who's standing in front of the sun with his chakras illuminated and most likely his chakras are receiving energy from the sun. And there's a reason why the album is called Power Light, 'cause an incident took place while recording. So if y'all wanna know about that, make sure you get the book and read it. It's very interesting. Almost like a supernatural event took place. So y'all check that out. Dwight Brooks: I don't even think Maurice White talks about that in Trenton Bailey, PhD: Okay. Dwight Brooks: his memoir. I won't go into it 'cause like you said, go read the book. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm. Dwight Brooks: or listen to it. so the biggest hit from that album was Fall in Love With Me, written by Maurice White. It wasn't a smash, but one of those underrated great tunes. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Underrated, yeah, 'cause it has that classic sound. And the video, I love the video for it, the band they dancing in front of a Kemetic landscape with, images flashing throughout all the Egyptian symbols. I go over that too, I explain that in the book. But yeah, that's another piece of Afro futurism, looking at the past, in a different space and time. Maurice White, he appears and disappears. So magic. So yeah, make sure y'all read the book. Dwight Brooks: so let's we'll talk last album we'll talk about was Electric Universe. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Electric Universe Electric Universe Dwight Brooks: let's see, that came out in November of 83. Magnetic was, I think, a single release from the album. It certainly was their biggest hit. But Trenton Bailey, PhD: But if you're saying yeah. Yeah. Dwight Brooks: they also had a track, Touch. You love Touch. Moonwalk. And I have to mention, Trenton Bailey, PhD: Touch. I love touch, yeah. I love touch. Moonwalk Dwight Brooks: I don't even remember Moonwalk. I was getting ready to go back and play it. I didn't have time this morning. Written by Maurice White's music partner in Memphis, David Porter. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Porter, my electric universe. Dwight Brooks: so talk about Electric Universe, why what what's touch, why is it special to you if Trenton Bailey, PhD: Okay, the album cover, first of all, if you look you look at it, you see that how it's a little futuristic, Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: computerized like, there's a pyramid, but it's illuminated like it was like done on a computer, the special graphics. And this represents the changing times, in the music industry and in technology in general, So but like I said, the first single was magnetic. And if you look at the video, you s once again it's kinda got that afrofuturistic Tron type style. the song is about music that sucks you in because it's magnetic Dwight Brooks: Mm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: and you just can't get rid of it. But it's got that afro futuristic style, like Mad Max, Thunder Thunderdome stuff, It's still Dwight Brooks: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Afro it's futuristic, it may not necessarily be Afro futuristic, so to speak. And the song Touch, like I said, that's one of my favorites, Philip Bailey's Falsetto, Maurice tenor I also like Electric Nation. A lot of folks haven't heard that song. Not Electric Universe, that's the name of the album, but Electric Nation is a good song. It has a distinctive style that that that 80s Earth Wind and Fire style it shies away from their traditional classic sound, but it's a good tune. But so if you get Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: a chance, people, make sure y'all listen to these albums, the latter albums from the 80s. faces. Power light, Raise! electric universe, and come up with your own assessment of Dwight Brooks: Yeah, yeah. And if you wanna drop your comments in the comment section or just send me an email and I'll share with Trenton 'cause we'd love to get your feedback on that. but as I mentioned, some would say this was the beginning of the end, or at least the end of an era. Power Light, Electric Trenton Bailey, PhD: Yeah, Dwight Brooks: Universe sold only about five hundred thousand copies, which most bands would take. I know they take it today, but that time they were flops in Earth Wind and Fires universe. White Trenton Bailey, PhD: Greener black. Yeah. Dwight Brooks: blames the poor performance on him rushing those releases. They were very close together Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right. Right. Dwight Brooks: in eighty three. He believed that had he not fully recovered from the sting of faces, poor audience Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm. Dwight Brooks: reception, he was still trying to recover from the Faces disappointments. So he rushed the albums out probably a little early than he'd like. He was trying some new writers I know that caused some tensions with members of the band. Trenton Bailey, PhD: yeah. Dwight Brooks: But clearly with the poor performance of those albums, this was the moment of truth for the great band. And before we delve into that on future episodes and close this episode, I'd be remiss if I didn't get doctor Bailey's take on Quest Love's documentary. It may take a half episode to do the title, Earth Wind and Fire to be Celestial versus the Weight of the World. Your take. Trenton Bailey, PhD: I think it was good for the average person who was viewing it who doesn't know about Earth, Wind and Fire. But as someone who has done the full history, I thought some things were left out, some important things were left out. And I've been discussing with someone some aspect of his life, his childhood and all that was discussed a little bit too much. And I often feel like when a person is deceased and no longer here to defend him or herself, some things should not be mentioned or, delved into so much. So I wish he could have talked about the band that Maurice White started before it was called Earth Wind and Fire, and I think he could have gone on, I think he stopped like maybe like around nineteen ninety. I don't think he discussed the album Millennium you know some of the other you know latter Dwight Brooks: Approximately yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: albums. So I think you know he could have discussed, the younger artists who Earth Wind and Fire worked with in the two thousands. So I just feel like it could have been, more but I I feel like it was good 'cause I understand you can only put so much in a in a two hour film. Maybe Dwight Brooks: Sure. Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: he's I don't know if he's gonna do a part two or what But as someone I think for the average person, so most people loved it, but like but Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm. yeah, yeah, yeah. Trenton Bailey, PhD: you know, I have my critiques and my praise of it. So Dwight Brooks: Mm-hmm. Trenton Bailey, PhD: that's how I feel about it. Dwight Brooks: Well I appreciate that. yeah, I think you're right. Clearly it's hard for people like you and myself who've done so much research, have all this information, to look at a film that's for a general audience, people who haven't done anywhere close to the amount of research, just seeing footage or having H.E.R. comment is is enough for them. But, it wasn't like a documentary in the traditional sense where it was exploring deeply. It was, covering a long time. I'm not defending Questlove. he has his own style. Trenton Bailey, PhD: right. Right. Dwight Brooks: and, obviously it was very successful. But I do share your opinion about certain things, probably in my opinion He dealt with too much at the exclusion of other things that Trenton Bailey, PhD: Mm-hmm. Right. Dwight Brooks: people would have benefited from knowing as well. But you don't want to get too much detail into the music because for a non-musician, it gets a little boring. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Right. Dwight Brooks: So with that note, I want to thank Dr. Trenton Bailey for being our special guest for the last two episodes Trenton Bailey, PhD: Thank you very much. Dwight Brooks: of tracking Earth Wind and Fire. And again, his book, Do You Remember? celebrating 50 years of Earth With and Fire. And I hope you come back for another episode. And as always, I welcome everyone's comments. There's a lot more we're going to talk about. I want to talk about their comeback, so to speak, in what was it, 1987 when they came back? Trenton Bailey, PhD: Million eighty seven, right. Dwight Brooks: a very different band, a very different era. So we'll bring you back to talk about that era. Trenton Bailey, PhD: Okay. Dwight Brooks: As always, send me an email at T-R-A-C-K-I-N-G-E-W-F. Love to hear your comments. Follow the episodes playlist on Spotify, hear songs from all these great albums we've talked about today, and until our next deep dive, keep your head to the sky.