Caleb: Welcome to Real Estate Insights, the show where I sit down with top real estate pros across Utah and Idaho to talk market strategy and how they help their clients win. I'm your host, Caleb Adams. Let's get into it. My guest is Cam Spackman, a realtor with Cornerstone Real Estate Professionals up in Preston, Idaho. Someone whose judgment I really trust at an event told me you've got to connect with Cam. So I've been wanting to get him in a room for a while now. grateful to have you here. and figure there's no better way to get to know ya than on the podcast today. So Cam, welcome. Looking forward to getting to know ya.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. I appreciate it, thank you. Caleb. I appreciate the invite I'm excited to be here and excited to talk with you about a few things.

Caleb: to kick things off, I'd love to hear a little bit about you and start from the beginning. How'd you get into real estate?

Kam Spackman: Yeah, I you know, man, I I'm a a little bit of a scaredy cat, right? real estate has always been something that I've been interested in. I look up to a lot of people that do real estate. I love to see homes. I kinda have a passion for seeing, the unique things that that go on at home, you know, what builders are doing and what people have done to decorate and and upgrades it's just kind of a fun part of it. But you know what? It took me a really long time to pull the trigger. I tell people that I'm not very book smart. You know, I never went to college. I didn't do the greatest in high school. I was kind of the kid that I'd run off and I'd go fishing or go do something else out there. So took me a lot of courage to to finally do it. so what I did was I went ahead and and about a a little over a year ago told my wife, I says, Hey, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna jump on. took me a little bit of time there, But we got it done. I'm excited to do it. I love Interacting with people. I've always thought that it was a great compliment when somebody tells me, hey, like you know a lot of people, Cam. I take that as a compliment. It's my it's my favorite thing. I love to know people. love to get to know people. Yeah, I agree.

Caleb: might be the best compliment. Yeah.

Kam Spackman: A hundred percent. Yeah, it's fun to know people and what they got going in their lives. And so yes, selling houses and getting people into homes is a lot of fun. But the relationships that come along the way, that's what really connects with me and holds with me the longest.

Caleb: That's awesome. Well, I really admire a couple of things you said there. One, your tenacity of pushing through. it's easy to look for reasons to not do something, but you had your your head set straight that you're gonna do this that already tells me that you're gonna work hard for your clients and get to the finish line. So that's awesome. And then and yeah, I've seen this time and time again and sounds like you have too, but

Kam Spackman: Yeah. I appreciate that, yeah. Yeah.

Caleb: Streets are street smarts matter more than book smarts a lot of the time. it's great to have the education. But if you know how to work with people and and help people get their dreams, I think that's awesome.

Kam Spackman: Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. And props to the people that do go to college. You know, I there's a big part of me that I always wishes I did. I wish I would have went and gotten some marketing degree or something like that. But but yeah, I mean, like you say, you know, I'm a hands-on learner. You know, in high school I I jived with welding and shop and and FFA and doing hands-on stuff and so, you know, that's why I love real estate and things like that. Is yeah, there's a lot of book stuff to know, but getting out and being in the thick of it and showing homes and interacting with people, you know, that's how I I I'm learning from other agents and my broker and lenders like you and and things like that more than I am if I were to sit down and pop a book open and read it. You know, I'm learning from you guys hands on and it's just it's a lot of fun. So

Caleb: Yeah, Well, just since we're talking about your start and the beginning of real estate, is there any advice you would give to a new real estate agent who's up and coming,

Kam Spackman: Yeah, it's kind of funny, I have a buddy that he was looking into getting his real estate license And he always jokes with me and says, I decided not to get my real estate license because I saw you were doing it and I don't want to take food off your table and I don't want to take money away from your family and and it seems like there's kind of a saturated market and when I was getting my real estate license, that was a big concern of mine is man, there's a lot of real estate agents out there. You know, the brokerage I work for has 30 agents that work underneath it. Am I gonna be able to get any business? Am I gonna be able to sell any homes? And what I've learned is it's all about who you know and the relationships you build. You know, so I'm gonna go back to the old Nike saying of of just do it. if you think it's something you want to do, take the leap, jump right into it, and and just make it happen. You know, sure there's a lot of real estate agents out there, but there's also a lot of homes and a lot of buyers. And it may take you some time to to get it done, You may get your license and your first year you might only sell one or two or three or four, But my advice for anybody thinking about doing it is just do it. It it's definitely scary. I tell my buddy all the time, don't worry about the saturated market. Don't worry about, you know, if if you have a a really good friend or a family member that's a real estate agent, you know, that could be an opportunity to work together. I tell my buddy all the time, I says, Man, you know, if only you had your real estate. license I've got to take off from my other job and run to Colorado. I got somebody that wants to look at a house, I'd really love to be able to have you go do it, you know, and and partner it, so you know it's scary, it's hard, but definitely rewarding

Caleb: love that. I love that. It's kinda like have that abundant mindset of there's enough to go around instead of the scarcity. So awesome.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and and And I think that's what makes you successful too is is going into being a realtor. Don't look at it as a a competition because it's not. You know, to be a good realtor so far with what I've learned is the realtors that are willing to help you and give you advice and I've gotten referrals from other realtors and I've built in relationships that way, be that realtor. don't be the realtor that comes in and looks at it as a competition, you just want all the business. what I've found so far personally is that the more successful agent is the one that's willing to help everybody out. So

Caleb: One hundred percent. What goes around comes around, right?

Kam Spackman: Yes, yes.

Caleb: we kinda touched on the market a little bit, so I want to dive a little bit deeper into that. Now, you're in Preston. So is most of your stuff up there in Preston? I know you're licensed in Utah as well, is that correct?

Kam Spackman: Yeah, so I'm licensed in both Utah and Idaho. Most of my stuff I've been doing is in Idaho. You know, I've kinda wiggled. I've got family in Utah, so I've been able to get some deals done there. But I'd like to get into Utah quite a bit more, but most of what I'm doing is in Idaho right now.

Caleb: Do you feel like it's leaning more towards buyers or sellers? What are you seeing?

Kam Spackman: You know, I'd like to say it's leaning towards buyers right now. the economy is freaking wild, man, and I don't know everything. but the market's an emotional roller coaster right now. we've got high fuel prices and we've got interest rates that decide they want to come up and then they decide they want to come down and and it's just kind of running back and forth. if I had to say one or the other, I'd say it's a buyer's market right now, homes are coming on. we're seeing about sixty to ninety days of sitting on the market for most homes. and you're seeing a lot of opportunity for, you know, maybe a lesser price offer or contingencies or you know, concessions on closing costs and things like that. You're seeing a lot of opportunities. I wish I would have jumped on getting my my license back in 2020 and 2021 when we saw those astronomically low interest rates that you know in all reality we may never see again. but you know, I'm in it now and I'm dealing with what we have You've got some houses that I'm like, All right, you know, list this million dollar house and it's probably gonna take a year to get it sold and six days later it goes under contract and it's like what in the world? crazy, you know, and yeah. And then you'll list a a two bed, one bath somewhere and it's like, all right, this one's gonna go quick and it takes a little bit longer to get it done. I don't think that that's anything that should hold anybody up. You know, if you're looking to move, if you're looking to buy, you know, reach out to that agent and just ask the questions and and give it a try. You know, if you if you're wanting to make that leap and make that move, I'd suggest, you know, still

Caleb: Amazing.

Kam Spackman: doing it. a lot of a lot of what I hear is well I'm gonna wait for interest rates to come down. I'm gonna wait for this opportunity. I'm gonna wait for that opportunity and and you know that's cool it's great you know be cautious. I definitely suggest being cautious but if you wait too long it may never happen. You know if you wait to list your house till you find the home that you're in love with you may not get the home that you're in love with because it may take a little bit longer to get your home sold my suggestion is when you're ready, get it done right now. I mean I'm sure on the lending end of things you can see it, you know, and maybe we can talk about that a little bit. interest rates, but you know, people say, man, I'm gonna wait for that three or four percent interest rate again. And you think about history, right? Back in the day, you know, people used to see 10 and 13% interest rates on home mortgages, you know, and and the fives and the sixes and the sevens, that was a really good interest rate. And being honest, right now in this world, that's a pretty good interest rate if you can get a five or a six or a seven. people saw those three percent, two point eight, three point something percent interest rates and they think that that's the new normal and they're waiting for that to happen again when that was really rare, right, Caleb?

Caleb: Absolutely. Super rare. I've had these conversations before When you venture into the unknown, especially like moving it's a huge financial decision. I think we look for reasons to not make that decision sometimes. We know it's the right decision, but we look for reasons to maybe wait. just because we want to wait for no other reason. And people use interest rate.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Caleb: or home prices as kind of that escape from the decision making. and the hard part is they're they're movable, right? when rates go down, then the excuse is, well home prices are too high or it's too competitive. It's a seller's market. So there's always something that I see on the interest rate side. but usually as a way to get out of the decision that needs to be made.

Kam Spackman: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a scary market, you know. yes, you know, what we I I always kinda call it a double edged sword, you know. In my in my opinion, honesty is key, so I'm just gonna throw it out there. But you know, when those interest rates were low, yeah. When those interest rates were low, it did. It drove house prices through the roof, right? It it just did and now we have interest rates that have worked their way up.

Caleb: Sure, yeah, please do.

Kam Spackman: But the house prices haven't come back down. And and from what I'm hearing and the knowledge that I'm gaining, you're probably not gonna see house prices work their way back down very much. You know, we're a growing economy, especially in the cash valley area. There's a lot of room for growth, and so it's just gonna keep, you know, continuing to bring those home prices up and and and be a growing market. And so it's kind of a double edged sword right now where You know, you have the the normal interest rates I'm gonna call the six and seven percent, five percent. but also house prices are high. And so, you know, I'd like to see a little bit more of those house prices work down a little bit or some more deals go on. but it's just kind of the world we're living in right now, in my opinion.

Caleb: Absolutely. I'm curious if from the buyer's perspective, are there any property types in your area that you feel like are are doing better or there's more opportunity to buy right now?

Kam Spackman: I've got a handful of listings right now and you know, that five hundred thousand and under range, they tend to be sitting a little bit more right now. you think, you know, you get into your three and four hundred thousand dollar range and that's a little bit more affordable, but I've actually seen a lot more of your million dollar home. and eight hundred thousand dollar homes, I've actually been physically seeing those go quite a bit quicker right now. so from a buyer's standpoint, you know, if you're looking for that, you know, horse property or that more acreage or that larger home, you know, those tend to be to be moving a little bit more than your five hundred thousand and under, For sure.

Caleb: Interesting. So sounds like you have to be a little bit more polished in your offer with those larger properties 'cause they're going quick.

Kam Spackman: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's what you know, I I had some clients that I've been working with for three or four months now and and we tried on two you know more expensive properties. They were looking for a horse property with some acreage and water and a larger home. They got seven kids. and we tried for two houses in the past four months and we lost them because we went y we just didn't even get the opportunity to get in there. I mean they come on million dollar home. six days later it's under contract. and so we finally found one a week ago that hit the market and we had it under contract in a day because we've just been we've been looking for it, you know, we've been looking for that specific property and so so yeah, I mean it's just it's just kinda different right now. So

Caleb: That's to know. It sounds like there might be some opportunity for buyers too, if they're looking to pick up some investment properties, maybe in that three to five hundred thousand range. sellers might be a little bit more willing to move on those.

Kam Spackman: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, you know, there's definitely opportunity there for investors on on that lower market and a lot of these homes are are sitting a little bit and and you know, I always tell my clients, you know, I don't wanna get, honesty is key again, you know, I don't want to tell my clients, Hey, we're gonna list your three hundred thousand dollar house, two bed, one bath or whatever, and it's gonna go, you know, like that because it's probably not. I tell my clients to expect, you know, some some lower offers or expect to pay some closing costs or or things like that just so that they know up front, you know, because it's it's life altering. You know, I always tell my clients that moving, selling a home, buying a home, it's a huge decision, you know, and that's kind of what I stand by is you know I don't want to rush my clients and and it's bit me in the butt once out of all the clients that I've had, you know, kind of per se you could say a pitch is I'll tell my clients, hey I I'm I'm a non-pressure guy. You know, I I've sold three or four homes before I was a real estate agent and and I don't like the pressure, you know, I don't like the the pushiness, so that's kind of the realtor that I want to be as a non-pressure guy. And I had one client say, Well, I need somebody that'll get it done for me. And it's like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, I I'll get it done for you. I'm just saying that I'm not gonna call you every day on the hour saying, Let's get a home ball, because it's such a huge decision. Most of my deals that I've been having on the buyer's end lately have been three, four, six six months or a year in the process, you know. you know, I I get to the point where, you know, on the buyer's end, I'll be well, you know, maybe these clients just aren't gonna buy and that's fine. And then the next day they'll text me, you know, a year later and be like, hey, we're ready to rock and roll. We just found one we love, let's get it done. So patience is a virtue. So

Caleb: Yes, especially in this business. You gotta plant those seeds and it takes it takes some time for to come to fruition. Where are you finding people to work with right now?

Kam Spackman: Yeah. I've actually had a lot more on the listing side than I have the buying side. the biggest thing is just word of mouth is where I'm finding, you know, I don't pay for the leads, I don't, you know, pay f pay realtor dot com or anything for the leads or anything like that. It's all word of mouth. that's where it all comes down to who you know and knowing people and how it's a compliment of knowing people. You know, I've had a lot of, you know, friends that I've grown up with and and and friends of my parents and this and that that have reached out just because they've seen me sell a home or or things like that. And so a lot of where I'm finding my clients these days and the people that I'm working with are just through a friend of a friend or through a family friend or through, you know, I volunteer on the fair board and stuff in in Preston and so, you know, people know me from that. So that's a a lot of where my clients come from. you know, I don't know if I'll ever get to the point where I wanna pay for for Realty Leads and pay for a client, you know. I've had clients in the past

Caleb: It's not all it's chalked up to be. Some it works for some, but they can be an expensive venture.

Kam Spackman: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you know, there's definitely opportunity there, but you know, in any business, so I like you say I do sales with with supplements with ranchers and stuff like that. And one thing that I stand by is is it's gotta work for both parties. You know, I've had people where they reach out to me and they start asking me realty clients or realty questions and market questions and and this and that and at the end of our conversation, you know, at the end of the day they need to want to work with you and you need to want to work with them. and if if one side of the party it isn't too excited about working with the other, you know, it's just not a great relationship to have. And I've had clients where they've gone to another realtor and get on them. You know, I've I've you we're kind of in a market right now where more than once I've had clients say, hey, you know, we're kind of per se interviewing you and we're interviewing two or three other, you know, realtors this same day and they've gone with another realtor. And and it's easy for a realtor to be upset about that. But in my opinion, I think that's a great thing because again, going back to how important it is and how big of a deal it is to buy a home, you need somebody that's gonna fight for you and that you feel like you connect with. So

Caleb: Man, I connect with a lot of agents and I can tell this is why you do well. That abundant mindset if you don't get every deal, great. There's so much to go around. There's so many people to serve and help How do you feel like you're helping clients win in this market? We've talked about that a little bit, and what's the experience you hope

Kam Spackman: I appreciate that.

Caleb: clients have with you.

Kam Spackman: Yeah, a big win for me is when my clients close on a home or we get their home sold and it was stress free. that's the biggest thing for me. That's that's my job is to help them sell their home or get into the home that they love without them being stressed and going home and not being able to sleep at night or being worried. You know, my job is to, you know, get through the paperwork and get through the offer and navigate and negotiate and and that's how I feel like I'm being successful. With clients and and things that way is because you know if they're not stressed during the whole process, that's that's my favorite thing. It puts a smile on my face at the end of the day. and you know, I have a lot of clients too, or I have had some clients where you know they they always apologize, you know, they're always I'm sorry, but can we go look at this home today? Or I'm sorry, can we go look at three or four homes today? And and they're I'm sorry, I'm wasting your time. And it's like, no, you're definitely not, you know, let's go. look at 40 homes. If you want to go look at 40 homes to find the one you love, let's do it. You know, let's because at the end of the day it makes me feel better. It makes me feel successful that we found the one that you absolutely love and that you're gonna move into and be happy with. You know, the my biggest fear is having somebody sell their home or buy a home and then fully regret it. And that's the last thing that I want to happen is that, Going back to that first question of success with clients, you know, it's really just as simple as that is if it's stress free and they're happy, that's that's the best part of it, you know. That's that's how I feel like I can be, you know, a winner with those guys. So

Caleb: Yeah. I feel like if I were to summarize and make a tagline, it'd be like Cam Spackman, the stress free, pressure free realtor.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah. that's that's what it's all about for sure, you know. And Yeah, yeah,

Caleb: I don't know who wouldn't want that.

Kam Spackman: that's something that makes me unique. I I want to be careful how I word this because every realtor does their job different and just because they do it different doesn't mean they're wrong. You know, but kind of what I've seen and the realtor that I wanna be for people is is the one that you know the client feels like I'm doing my job correctly. You know, I try and be unique. you know, it's it's scary and it's quirky and it's weird. You know, I I like to post videos, I take videos of myself with the home, I'll create videos. videos, I'll throw some music to it, whatever that way and people are like, you know, that's so silly, or you know, if you jump on my real estate page for for Easter, you know, a lot of people don't like the AI, but I use AI and I'll throw a freaking Easter bunny suit on me and post it out for the public s to see, you know, and and just be kind of different that way, you know, and and so I feel like that's a perk that I have is is if you put your trust in me to be your realtor, whether it's buying or it's selling, I'm gonna do everything I can, you know.

Caleb: It's awesome.

Kam Spackman: We're gonna do open houses, and I'll be completely honest. You know, for a lot of realtors, they might think an open house is a waste of time. You know, I've got one home where I've probably done six open houses on it, not had one client come to any of the six. But I'm still pushing, you know. The I've even had the client say, Man, like, do you think it's worth it to do an open house still? You know, you haven't had anybody show up in the past six open houses. You know, it's a lot of work. Should we still be doing it? And my answer is yes, you know. Because you never know, you know, coming back to another kind of old adage is for me, it only takes one. You know, it might take us 90 days or 60 days to sell your home, and but it only takes one buyer or or whatever that way too to get your home sold. You know, it only takes one. So we need to continue to do the work. It's it's super easy to be discouraged when you do an open house and nobody shows up. But the biggest thing is when you're doing those open houses, I kind of take them as an advantage to manage my time. So for that couple hours, either I'm posting your house on social media or I'm walking through and doing videos of each room of your home so that I have a bunch of footage to be able to continue to market it, you know, every other day, keep it in front of people. You know, so I'm going through taking pictures, I'm going through doing footage so that I have that to be able to keep it in front of people, keep it in front of the market. You know, or you know, there's been times and this is kind of an extreme, but you know if somebody's got a vacuum laying around while I'm doing an open house, heck yeah, I'm gonna grab that vacuum and start vacuuming all the rooms or or something that way, you know, to make sure it's ready to go. And and again it goes back to, you know, making life stress free for these guys and and just letting them sit back and relax while I do all the work for So

Caleb: I'm a huge fan of open houses. Our first house, it was like five minutes before an open house ended. Anyway, when saw it, rest is history. We bought it. So they work. I was the one at the very end. The agent was probably like, this guy keeping me after But then we bought, so I guess he was happy.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah. No, it like you say, it only takes one and you are the one. Yeah, yeah, for sure. y you know, like I say, open houses they're kinda, you know, hit or miss, but you know, and sometimes you'll get a bunch of looky loss where it's like, you know, the neighbor. You know, I've had so many open houses where the neighbor's like, you know, I just wanna look, you know, I just wanna see my neighbor's house and they're being nosy and and you know, a lot of clients they don't love that. But I actually have, you know, had one deal where that neighbor, they're like, I'm just being nosy Well then their daughter came in and she bought it. You know, and so it's just it's just like yeah Okay, you know, you can be, you know, frustrated that the neighbors coming and being nosy and looky-looy, but you never know they may have the connection to bring a buyer to your home, you know. So you gotta have that open mind.

Caleb: Yeah, two thoughts that this gives me. One, I have a really good friend who's a financial planner and he's built his whole business off of events. He you know, we'll do these events where he kinda does seminars and teaches people. And he tells me that sometimes he gets hundreds of people and sometimes it's four or five. And when it's only a couple, he just has to remind himself, you just gotta trust the process. sometimes you do six open houses and people don't show, but you gotta trust the process because like you said, just takes one.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Caleb: It's part of that that grit that it takes. So

Kam Spackman: For sure, for sure.

Caleb: I always think of it like, you know, a house might sit on the market for a while, not because it's a bad house, but because the right buyer hasn't come along yet. And that there's nothing wrong with that. It might be someone's dream house. It just took a minute for the buyer to show up.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well and that's the thing too, you know, is with that. You know, going back to my story of these clients that I've been working with for three or four months and we lost a couple houses and then one came on the market and we had it under contract in a day, you know, there's two sides to that, right? So, you know, from the selling side, in this case, you know, there was another agent that had this home listed and when we had it under contract in eight hours, the the sellers were like, man, you know, this realtor, we must have listed our home way too cheap. You know, man, like what you know, what the heck? What going on we should have asked a hundred thousand dollars more. and she probably got a little bit of heat from that. But at the end of the day, that's not the case. You know, be patient, take your time, because when you're looking for something specific, in this case, I had the buyers and we've been looking for months, you know, and we jumped on it quick. And from the seller side, it's easy to think, man, we went too cheap, but also you gotta have the open mind of, these clients they've been looking for our specific house for this long and they were just ready to go and we didn't want to miss it. So we jumped on it. So you gotta have an open mind and and look at it and just trust that your agent is doing everything that they can for you and and that that your agent knows they've done the work, they've done that comparable market analysis to see what your home is worth and what they feel comfortable listing it at and things like that. So you gotta trust that process for sure.

Caleb: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I heard someone say, a mentor friend of mine that instead of trying to start your own parade, you just need to get in front of someone else's parade. And it's the same thing with the neighbors, you know, it's like, Why be the only salesman on the house when you can have twenty other salesmen out there telling their family about it

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Caleb: it's the other value of the open house is neighbors come see it and then tell their fri their coworkers, their friends, family, et cetera.

Kam Spackman: Yeah. Yeah, no, and honestly Caleb, that's why I love you're doing this podcast because you're putting it out there, you're helping educate people, you're helping, and and you as a lender, you know, it's it's it's pretty sweet what you're doing. It's it's a cool thing and and like I say, it all falls back to relationship, relationship, relationship and and marketing. the biggest thing is yeah, sure it takes a lot of time to sit down on your phone and and make a post or create that video but it's worth it. It's worth it in the end. And you know, that's probably some more advice that I could give to any new agent or any agent that's been an agent for a long time. social media, whether people like it or not, it's the route that the world is going. your Instagram, your your Facebook, your TikTok, I know back in the day it was a lot easier to not do social media, but the way the world's turning these days is social media is huge. get out of your comfort zone. shoot that video with you in it of you walking through the home and talking and putting your face out there or, you know, take the time to post because, you know, that's where a lot of my leads have come from is people that have seen me on social media, that have seen the work that I'm doing. So if you're a new realtor or or a current realtor or even a lender, you know, or anything in the the realty and the real estate market industry, put yourself out there because it's a huge deal. So

Caleb: Yeah, social media is the new storefront, right? instead of the billboard as you drive down Main Street, it's now your real or your bio on your on your feed. so yeah, that's the that's the new world we're in. And speaking of social media, when buyers or sellers want to work with you, how can they get in contact with you?

Kam Spackman: Yeah. For sure. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just throw out my phone number. It's one is four three five two three two two seven seven one is my cell phone number. My phone is always on. If you guys wanna call me at midnight, I might be sleeping when I answer the phone. My voice might be a little bit groggy, but I'm gonna answer. I run an Instagram page called Camps Backman Real Estate, a Facebook page called Cam Sp Camps Backman Real Estate. I do a little bit on TikTok. and you know, but those are my socials right there. And then I also have the Cornerstone website. You can jump on Cornerstone real estate professionals and find me on there as well.

Caleb: I appreciate having you on today. for those listening, reach out to Cam. he's your guy. He'll help you list or buy stress free without any pressure,

Kam Spackman: I appreciate the shout out and the same goes to you, Caleb. we know that you're in the the mortgage industry, I always like to say get pre approved first, before we get get looking, then you know where you're at and I'm sure you can advocate for that as well.

Caleb: I appreciate it. Yeah, it's hard to shop when you don't know how much you can shop for, Well, appreciate it, Cam. Thanks for being on.

Kam Spackman: yep, for sure, for sure. Thanks, Caleb.

Caleb: That's a wrap on this episode of Real Estate Insights. A huge thank you to my guest for sharing their time and playbook. If you're a top agent in Utah or Idaho and you'd like to be featured on the show, I'd love to have you. Reach out anytime. I'm Caleb Adams, mortgage broker here in Utah and Idaho, who loves connecting great agents with great people who need them. We'll see you next time.