Caleb: Welcome to Real Estate Insights, where I sit down with top real estate pros across Utah and Idaho. I'm Caleb Adams. My guest today is Kathy Campbell with Coldwell Banker Realty in Orem Kathy works with first-time buyers to luxury downsizing all across Utah and Salt Lake counties. she's earned the President's Circle distinction and a stack of certifications with luxury marketing, pricing and negotiation. Kathy, welcome. Did I miss anything? Kathy Campbell: Thank You're great. Thank you. Caleb: Awesome. would you mind telling us about your background, how you got into real estate and what you were doing before? Kathy Campbell: You bet my background is I married a man in construction. So that was down that path right away. So my husband Caleb: Ha ha. Kathy Campbell: grew up doing construction with his father when we got married. So we did build houses for a while when we first got married. Jeff did a lot of different things and then that that meant that I did things. So when we build our house here in Provo, I was the one doing the floor trim and cutting with the shop saw Caleb: Yeah. Kathy Campbell: with my kids at the picnic table eating snacks while I trimmed our house out. My husband taught construction management facility and property management at BYU. We had a side gig of some consulting and in twenty fifteen his health took a downturn and so he needed to leave BYU and went on disability and so that's when I kicked into real estate. So I've been doing this now since twenty fifteen. Caleb: Wow. that's amazing. Yeah, twenty fifteen feels like not that long ago, but then you realize it's eleven years ago. So been doing it for a while. Kathy Campbell: Yeah. Caleb: is a super cool story. Kathy Campbell: And the market is saying in just eleven years how much the real estate market has ebbed and flowed and the different thing. I mean, we had COVID in the middle of all that. And it's really been quite a ride learning how to market and sell and help clients buy in each of those markets has been rather an education. So Caleb: No kidding. Yeah, what are some of the biggest differences between twenty fifteen and now in terms of how you run your business? Kathy Campbell: Yeah, you know, twenty fifteen launching in it was there'd been kind of a downturn in two thousand eight, two thousand nine, been a lot of foreclosures, people had borrowed more than their house was worth, and so we kinda had a downturn in 2015 was we're starting to pick up the pace again. So I entered in on more of a seller's market where we're multiple bids starting. And then as it it went on more this is all before COVID. I mean, I was this was the good old days of clients writing letters and making videos to help a seller pick them. You know, it was still pretty competitive during that time. And now we don't do the videos and things anymore. But anyway, that was that was quite the episode during those times. And then COVID hit and it just kicked in even harder. Those were multiple bids. I remember have going or having open houses and just, you know, many, many people coming getting bids from people, numerous bids the first day a home hit the market. Because we just didn't have the inventory, but l rates were so low, many people were trying to buy during COVID. So that that was a tricky time. And then, you know, now as we recover from COVID, there got people not wanting to move because they've got such a low interest rate. So it's the inventory's still a little bit sluggish, but With rates going up, it's made buyers more hesitant now. So we've kind of flipped. I I went and did some classes recently. You know, the normal market's about if a buyer hits the market, they average two to two and a half homes they can pick from on the market. COVID, there were like two buyers for every one home on the market. And now Caleb: Yeah. Kathy Campbell: today's market we've got five homes for every buyer on the market. So our inventory right now is much higher and buyers are more picky. It's like if I'm gonna take a loan out. at six and a half percent or whatever they qualify for, they want it to be a perfect home. So it's really made listing a home so critical to get your home ready to shine and show well so that a buyer will want to pick you. And so anyway, it's it's it's of Caleb: Yeah. Wow. gone are the days where you can just throw it on Zillow and not do a thing to it and it sells in a week. Kathy Campbell: Yeah. I mean even Caleb: Or Kathy Campbell: during COVID I still staged my homes and we prepped them really well. even though I knew it would sell, I got the client's top dollar. When you prepare a home well, it's just a much better thing. You take a little bit of time to make the home presentable and in good shape and it makes a big difference for the seller. Caleb: Yeah, Well, I wanna dive a little bit more into the market here in Kathy Campbell: Yeah. Caleb: a moment, but before I do, I'd love to hear too, so your background with construction and your husband teaching at BYU, how do you feel like that's shaped how you serve your clients? Kathy Campbell: just from the new construction mindset, I understand it a little bit. I'm not an expert at obviously I'm not a contractor, but together we built four or five homes of just our own that our families lived in. So over the years I've learned about the construction process. and you also understand more what your client's going through. It's a really stressful thing going through new construction or just even buying a home. if they're single that's stressful. If you're married, it is a whole nother stress on a marriage, making all those decisions together. And so maybe just having that empathy, understanding what it's like, let alone the real estate knowledge, but but that personal experience and like, hey, I've been there, done that, you're gonna make it through. We're gonna be okay. And in the long run this is gonna be good for your family. But you just gotta make it through the painful parts of the buying or building process and it then you'll be all right. So Caleb: Yeah, One of the hard parts I think about new construction too, you're the one responsible. When you move in and you don't like where the kitchen island is located or how the shape of the house you're like, yeah, I drew the plans up. Kathy Campbell: Yeah, and we're Caleb: a good point. Kathy Campbell: kinda that way too. So we're in the middle of a kitchen remodel after many years of trying to fix some things we did wrong when we first built this home. okay. Caleb: It's a beautiful thing about owning your house though. you can do that. One of the advantages of owning is the flexibility to change with you. Obviously the expense and the time, but to have that option to switch up the layout or, as the family dynamic changes, add a bedroom or turn it into the main floor laundry Kathy Campbell: Yeah. Or Caleb: room or something. Kathy Campbell: Exactly. You know, yesterday I'm in a new construction walkthrough with a brand new married couple. They were engaged at the time we went under contract to buy their condo. They they just knew they wanted to buy right off the bat. So now in the meantime they're married, been living with family for a couple of months, and then next in the next week we'll have their final walkthrough. But what that does is it just sets the base so in four or five years when they're ready to grow, they can either sell and then they've got a good down payment for that next home, or they may just keep this one as an investment and expand their real estate portfolio and then save up and have the down payment and keep that and everybody's got a different goal in mind. But getting your foot in that door and getting that first investment going, I've Read some studies on generational wealth and one of the things you can do to help your family in the future, you know, your kids and grandkids is just invest in a house and start that cycle of building some wealth there in your real estate. Caleb: Yeah. It's amazing. I think when I look back on we bought a town home, when we first got married and I remember it was like right during COVID and everyone was saying, the market's gonna crash, who knows what's gonna happen and I'm so glad we bought when we did and I'm sure that people buying now are gonna feel the same way ten years from now as market Kathy Campbell: Yeah. Caleb: dynamics change or even their personal family situations change. So it's a great point. Kathy Campbell: and I find that a lot of my people who hear this advice, a lot of it comes from the national news and you really need to look at your local market. You know, all the doomsdayers are saying it's not time to buy, but Utah or in specific areas that are near universities or high job markets. Utah's an attractive state with people moving here and so you need to take your advice or look at what the local economy is doing, not just the national news as a whole. Caleb: Yeah, it's so interesting how real estate matters on a national scale, like we talk about the Iran war and everything happening right now, but then it's so Kathy Campbell: Yeah, Caleb: local. even like the neighborhoods that you said. and I'm curious on that, are there any particular neighborhoods in the counties you serve that that you're excited about? Kathy Campbell: Hm mm. you know the hot spot here in Utah County and Salt Lake it's been that point of the mountain we call it. It's the the little county, Lehi right between Salt Lake and Utah counties. anything that's hubbing right around those areas that feeds into either of those employment bases That seems to be the real hot spot. But we have so much growth so now we go out Eagle Mountain, you know that's about 40 to 50, 60 minutes west of the freeway, and yet our growth is heading that way because it's west of that Lehi area and it hubs right between Salt Lake and Utah County. More in the south end of Utah County also I've seen a lot of growth. People wanting to get away from the traffic and not minding a little more commute, they head more south because they want a little bit more quiet lifestyle. So it just depends on the person's goals and what they're after. But those are probably the hot spots I've been in. And Tooele in the western Salt Lake County, that's where all the land is, and it's a commute, but I'm I am still helping people buy out there, and there's quite a bit of growth in that area too. Caleb: Yeah, it's it's so interesting that you bring this up. We actually did a poll or survey on Monday of this week where we asked people, would you rather have an acre and commute twenty to thirty minutes or for the same price, only commute five minutes for a smaller plot of land? And Kathy Campbell: No Caleb: ninety six percent of survey results said we'd rather live twenty, thirty minutes away and have land. So Kathy Campbell: That's interesting. And you know, it's interesting. I've helped a few clients buy properties with land. And some of them within just a couple of years, it's like, you what, we're tired of taking care of this yard and they I've moved them into a townhouse or something. So it doesn't end up being the perfect thing for everybody, Caleb: Yep. When we're hosting and we have people over, land is great. When you have to mow the lawn, all of a sudden it's not so great. Yeah. Kathy Campbell: It's true. It's really Caleb: what type of clients do you find yourself working most with? Kathy Campbell: You know, first timers move uppers 'cause I try to really keep in contact and serve my clients well, so hopefully when they're ready to move up. but also a niche I've quite strong at cause you can see my wrinkles and gray hair is I tailor a lot to the senior market. And it's not just the seniors themselves. Oftentimes my last couple of years it's been to when a senior has passed on and now the children have the family home and we're dealing with a trust, many decision makers. it's a whole nother ballgame when all these siblings are now trying to decide what to do with mom and dad's property. And so it that's a niche I found, a place I can serve and help out with. So Caleb: Yeah, you bring up a good point. It sounds very different from a first time buyer situation to someone who, has a trust and an estate sale and these water shares. Are there any other things that are different when it comes to working with seniors or people who are downsizing? Kathy Campbell: Yeah, it depends senior spans from 55 to 95. And so that term senior is broad. whether I'm a fifty-five plus they're more technology savvy, they're still very much right. But if when I'm dealing with a 90-year-old or something, I'm going to their home and having them sign documents in ink. If it's a younger one, they're okay with the technology signing online and that type of thing. and sometimes seniors They just can't get around. You know, when we hit this seventy-five to ninety-five realm. And so I use a title company and even my first time buyers love it too, but my title company my escrow officer is mobile. So most of my signings, even for not seniors, is we go to their home, we go to their place of employment. I've signed documents in parks and in parking lots and places of employment. So just to serve them well so they don't have to travel and get out, it's just a different kind kind of mindset, how can I help make this transaction easier for this client who maybe has some physical lip dim limitations and things like that. Caleb: there's some pretty cool ways that you can show up for your clients there, make it easier for with their unique challenges. Kathy Campbell: Yeah, and And I think you know, having gone through my folks' age and things like that and seeing the spam calls they would get, the spam mail ways in our country that are deceiving our seniors, it really is a sore spot with me. And so I try so very diligently to not let them be hoodwinked in any way, right? We're making sure that we're being honest and careful and that these folks are not going to lose money we protect them highly. And I'm a little more diligent with those seniors, we just really be diligent to educate our buyers and sellers so they don't get tricked out of a lot of their money. So Caleb: It sounds like you're going from we just help you get it done, to I'm on your team. I'm helping ya get through and beyond this process. well I'd love to talk about how you help clients win. We kinda touched on this a little bit, but what experience Kathy Campbell: Mm-hmm. Caleb: do you hope each client walks away with? Kathy Campbell: you know, the helping your client win I found has goes back to a lot with my relationship with the realtor on the other side. So there have been times when I've offered for a client and there's been multiple offers and if I know this other agent on the other side, sometimes they've just said, hey, yeah, I've I told my sellers I've worked with Kathy before, I know that this deal will go through. And so that's one of the best first steps is I need to make sure I have good relationships with any realtor I've done. I want to leave that positive relationship whenever the deal ends, that that realtor wants to work with me again. And so That helps my clients. Then and I think just being in the business a long time and the longevity gives me a foot up because I do know I don't know them all, but a at a wide range of realtors in our in our area. So that helps. the the other key is is finding out what's important to either the seller. If I'm representing a buyer, I'll call and do the homework on what's important to the seller. So I know that we can craft a good offer that meets that seller's needs well. If I'm representing the seller, then we that the buyers will make sure that they've been qualified well with their lender. We make sure their realtors on the ball and just all these other things before they accept. an offer, we make sure that those buyers seem very well qualified and sincere in moving forward. And so those kind of groundworks before we ever go under contract help the transaction move forward well also. Caleb: I actually love that because it's easy to say, like, here's the box of the experience you're supposed to have and fit all the clients in that box. But in reality, everybody wants a different experience and so I like how you said, asking them questions, getting to know them, figuring out what's important, and then kinda tailoring the experience to that. I think that's awesome. Kathy Campbell: Yeah, I'm in the middle of a learning experience right now. I I've ended up having clients quite a bit from Ukraine and Russia. I've got one from Belarus right now. you know, you kinda help one and and bless their heart as they refer you to others, and they've been a wonderful clientele to get to know. I wish I spoke Russian and Ukrainian, I'll tell you that. they're wonderful, but as you work with different cultures coming to the United States. There there is a different negotiation mindset that comes with each culture kind of thing and trying to learn that and respect that mindset, that's been a real education for me. And and trying to honor the way they they want me to negotiate on their behalf. every deal is a whole nother learning experience and I'm still like one of these days I might really actually know what I'm doing. Caleb: Ha ha. Kathy Campbell: But it's always learning, always changing. Yeah, Caleb: Always always keeps us on our toes. Kathy Campbell: yeah. Caleb: Yeah, it's a great point. I noticed you did have some like pricing certifications or negotiation. Kathy Campbell: huh, yeah. Caleb: How does that show up for clients? You mentioned negotiation. what have you learned about negotiation? Kathy Campbell: the most thing I've learned about negotiation is when you try to beat somebody up and win yourself, you end up either not getting what you want or you end up with a very strained relationship between the buyer and seller by the time you're done. The best negotiation is being honest and open with both parties. What do they need, and seeing if we can't find a middle ground or a win-win for both parties And and that's more my negotiation style. I don't particularly care for the beat up or hard nose kind of thing because I found it backfires most of the time. Caleb: that's awesome. Is there a common mistake that you see buyers or sellers making in this market? Kathy Campbell: the common mistake is either we price too high, we'd like to say, okay, well let's test this price. And if it doesn't sell here, we're gonna come down. And if it doesn't sell, you know, and and if you would just enter the market at a good price or just a hair below. you're gonna bring in multiple more potential buyers. I'm talking as a seller perhaps now. Is that Caleb: Yeah. Kathy Campbell: pricing that right? bringing in more buyers and then you end up with the competition which in the long run can end up profiting you more. But when we price too high, and let's just test this for now, then what happens is the house sits, it doesn't sell because everybody knows it's priced too high, then we drop and we drop. People start to wonder what's wrong with the house, why hasn't it sold? And it ends up getting you less in the long run, and you sit on the market a long time. So I would say not trying to get way too much. That that ends up hurting you in the long run. And so I guess the main thing, get the home ready to sell. from the minute you hit the market, a seller competes high with new construction now. And a lot of these builders offer some tremendous incentives. You know, I do have a lot of my buyers go new construction because they're offering discounted interest rates, they're offering concessions towards closing costs. And so when you're an existing home seller, you've got to kind of go head to head with this new construction. And so your home has to really shine. or if you're gonna sell it as is, you'll just accept lower offers because it'll be the flippers or the investors that wanna buy and be able to generate a profit by fixing it up and selling it themselves for a profit. anyway that Caleb: Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean when you have a buyer who has I think you told us earlier, five to one options of homes they could buy, you gotta be strong out the gate. Kathy Campbell: it is an unpredictable market. I have this client, we were out with them for three days straight, looking at homes, trying to decide whether to buy existing, buy a lot, get a builder. We looked at all the options. And just as the wife's ready to fly out back to her home state, a home came on the market and they're like, Can you get us in? So we get out there at seven o'clock that night, and that's the home they offered on because this home, the yard was immaculate, it had all this stuff, the home was staged well, it was A little bit more of this. We ended up having to battle probably three to four other offers on that one home as we're touring all these others that are sitting and then all of a sudden we had to go ahead because when a home hits the market that's priced well and just really shines, the multiple offers are still coming in. But it's like buyers are waiting for that perfect home. And so it is still so weird. Sometimes we can negotiate for buyers and get concessions from sellers and other times I mean we were offering above asking price trying to win this home. Caleb: you brought up pricing. I'm curious in Utah County or Salt Lake County, those areas, is there a price point that seems to be moving faster? Kathy Campbell: The five hundred to eight hundred kinda seems to be a range I get. When we get over the eight hundred range, then we get into the jumbalone break off. Caleb: Yep. Yep, you got it. Kathy Campbell: So, kinda that sweet spot. when I hit people looking in the one to two million dollar range. there are many people in that price range actually. And and some of them are cash, some of them have sizable funds. And so I see that range going. And and I cannot speak to like the two million and higher market because I am not experienced in that realm. I don't have many clients that are at two million or higher to buy or sell. So but from what I hear and gather there's still a good window of opportunity there. we have people still coming from out of state. the the people coming from California we look like a great deal. The people coming from Texas we look expensive, but still we're we're getting people moving here and they're from all price ranges. it's Caleb: Yeah. Perspective is everything. And to your point, you know, the clients that are buying two million dollar plus, that buyer pool is a little smaller, so Kathy Campbell: Yeah, yeah. Caleb: Awesome. Well before we Kathy Campbell: jump in. Caleb: wrap up here, one other question I have is just well nobody has a crystal ball, but where do you think we're trending or over the next five to ten years you see real estate headed in Utah? Kathy Campbell: Huh. From all my indications here in Utah, our job market is still tremendously strong. And we've got some great universities here pulling students in. And I still believe it's going to be strong and the demand is there. the national government just passed that 21st Century Affordable Housing Act, trying to find ways to help first-time buyers. get into a home or make the buying process more streamlined and easier for everybody. And so I still feel that we're just going to grow as long as our land keeps us there And yet I do see many people they're okay to buy the existing homes once they come on the market in because they want a shorter commute to wherever their work is. Or they just like to be close to stores. They like to be close to a park. They you know, everybody's a little bit different on what's important to them. My seniors, where's the nearest hospital? What is the rating of the hospital? So it's just whatever your need is. we'll get you there, but I don't see Utah as a whole declining much. It's just gonna continue to grow. And it's an exciting Caleb: Yeah. Kathy Campbell: time actually. It's really great that our generations and continued generations wanna still live here, that our state's still speaking to say, Hey, come be here. It's a good place to live. So Caleb: It really is. Well, this has been Kathy Campbell: Or we change our Caleb: immensely valuable. I've loved learning from ya and picking your brain a little bit. So as we wrap up here, people that want to work with ya, how should they get in contact with you? Kathy Campbell: Yeah, just my phone, 801 4719027. There are a couple of other Kathy Campbells with Cobwell Banker. So my email is Kathy K A T H Y dot Goldendor @ gmail.com. And our tagline that has just been my hallmark of my business is extra mile with a smile, which just means we want to go the extra mile for our clients and always make sure that they feel that we're glad to do it and grateful for the business always. Caleb: That's so awesome. Well, thanks so much, Kathy. Really appreciate it. Kathy Campbell: Thanks for the opportunity.