Evan Wessman: That doesn't change your ability to take the train and hang out with us. It doesn't. You know what you could also do? Take a long walk. I could take a very long walk to get there. It's like 80 miles, I think, from Philly to New York. So well, they walked longer than that. How long did they walk in the movie? should we should know. think it's like 300 miles. Six days. Yeah. Five days. OK, let's go. Yeah, let's go. Welcome back to the Interior Analysis Podcast. I am your host for this episode, Jelani T. Kelly. I'm Evan Westman. And I'm Angel Michelli. And today we are discussing The long, well I was gonna say the long anticipated, I don't know if anybody was hyped for this movie. I thought you forgot the title for a second. Nope. I was like, this is your are we doing today guys? This whole operation is your idea. Was that an impression of me? No, that was just the dumb kid in your math class. Evan, Evan, you can't do impressions of black people. Please. You can't do impressions of black people, Okay, well I think I have a pretty good track record of not doing that on this show. Directed by Francis Lawrence. Writers J.T. Molnar and Stephen King, who wrote this is his novel. It's an adaptation of his novel, also of the same title, The Long Walk, starring Cooper Hoffman as Ray Garrity, David Johnson as Peter McVries, Mark Hamill as the greatest character in the movie, and Judy Greer as Garrity's mom. There's a bunch of other. actors, I could go down the list. Everybody does a great job in this movie. I really don't think there is a single weak actor in this film. Budget of 20 million grossed worldwide. 63 million. You love to see it. Tripled its money. Good. I watched this two and a half times once on the plane to San Diego last Christmas. And I think I text you guys when I landed. I was like, we got to do this a half time on the way back from San Diego through my brother's TV. I just kept looking at him and his TV. was playing TV to see his reaction because I told him to watch it. And a second time fully for this episode. It's one of those social experiment movies. I didn't realize it was going to be as graphic as it was, but I love that I was, especially with the first death of Curly. I'd never saw a trailer or anything for this. So I was just like, this looks like it's supposed to be a good movie. I looked at the poster, I saw the title, read the synopsis, and I was like, I want to give it a shot. I mean, I have six hours, so why not? What is your experiences with this movie? Also, I never read the book. I don't know if either of you have read the I haven't read the book, but I did like this movie. I've been really into seeing King adaptations the last few years. I didn't know much about the book going in. For some reason, I always mix it up with The Running Man because I haven't read either book and I didn't know what either one was about. I still don't really know what The Running Man's about, but I guess I will. The Long Man and the Running Walk. Well, they also came out within like two months of each other. the movies. Yeah, no, they did. I don't know what it was. Yeah, they both seem cool and long walk is very good. I really did enjoy this movie. I was pleasantly surprised. Like I knew you liked it, Jelani, and I think we have a similar taste in movies. But like I was pleasantly surprised by how well they handled a lot of themes in this. I also, when I was going in, I did not know that Mark Hamill was going to be in it. And the second I realized it was him, I was so excited. I thought that was Jack Nicholson like the whole time until the end and I was like, can't be him though, cause he's too old for this. But thought it was Jack Nicholson? I don't know. It seemed like he had the same look. I think he has like the same facial hair. Do old white guys look alike to you, Evan? I mean, I guess those two do. I knew it wasn't him, but I guess Jack Nicholson has also looked like Jack Nicholson forever and Mark Hamill. has only looked like Mark Hamill does now for like half of his career. And most of his stuff post-Star Wars has been voice acting. Like, I think- That's very true. Every time I watch the first Kingsman, I forget that it's him. Because he doesn't look anything like Luke Skywalker at that point. He's in that? Yeah. Yeah, he's the professor. exactly. Right? I forgot- I haven't seen that movie- I saw that movie once a while back. I don't remember a lot of it. I've seen it a bunch of times and I feel like I forget every single time. That is Varkanys. I gotta watch it again now. Just watch the church scene, that scene is a work of art. Yeah, yeah. You know what's crazy too? So as we're recording this guys, it is Cinco de Mayo. ⁓ more importantly, it means that yesterday, but it also means that yesterday was Star Wars Day. So last night I watched Empire. With our friend Taylor D. Adams. I was not able to make that, but yeah. Yeah. No, it was such a good time. Honestly, I it was most of the chat was me just sending Gifts of the scenes as they were happening and he never he never got upset at me once and I really appreciated that but watching like Mark Hamill in that role and Like also watching him in this role recently for this podcast was like super interesting because they're completely different characters and if you really think about it like Mark Hamill has played Probably more villains than he has heroes But he's also Luke Skywalker. So you think about Luke Skywalker with him. then every other one you think of the most iconic Joker voice are definitely you always think of the Joker. You think of this. even kind of played the Joker in live action on The Flash. It wasn't the Joker. It was a different villain, but like very Joker esque. I enjoyed him. That's the stuff you got. Sack. You talking about the sex, man. He really did. Yeah. And I think it's interesting. that like they keep talking about this thing throughout the film where they're like if you insult the long walk or the government they're gonna shoot you but he just keeps encouraging it the entire time I guess which is kind of crazy because like there are cameras there and like showing that but I guess he appreciates it so much that like he doesn't care maybe it's that sheer like hubris that he has that like nothing is gonna break the system that they're a part of which I want to get into more he's got SAC 2 later on exactly yeah Yeah, I think that was it. He's got too much sack and he doesn't think that anyone will break the sack. I'm losing the metaphor. Anyway, ⁓ other actors are also in this film, ⁓ Cooper Hoffman is really good. I like him. The only other thing I've really seen him in is Licorice Pizza, which is a very strange film. He hasn't done a lot else, I don't think. No, but he's Philip Seymour Hoffman's son. I just found that in the Hunger Games movies. Yeah. Wait, you just found that out? Yeah, just like, I don't remember how, but sometime doing like preparation for this episode and I was like, ⁓ I see it. I see it a little bit. Even though Jesse Plemons looks more like he should be Philip Seymour Hoffman's kid. know, right? Like a little bit. I would have loved if Jesse Plemons was in this movie. He'd be so funny. Even if just as one of the soldiers. I know he'd just be weird and I love it. He's so funny. really would. Someday we'll have to do Civil War, but... ⁓ yeah, we haven't done that yet, have we? That's all it Yeah, just for Jesse Plemons. I would, for a lot of things. We also have to do Game Night for Jesse Plemons. Have you guys seen Game Yes? ⁓ my gosh, yes. Game Night is so good! How that possibly be profitable for Frito-Lay? I saw that movie when MoviePass was out when I was in college. Oh my God. I probably saw it. I saw it two or three times in the theater. yeah, Cooper Hoffman is really good. David Johnson is great. I saw him in Alien Romulus. He's the best character in the movie. He's the best. He's three dimensional. He's just super positive throughout. You learn a little bit about his backstory as he goes through. like also that they talk about it a little. They hinted him being gay. Did they? Yeah. I missed that. I think they do. I missed that too. I think they do. We can cut that out if I'm wrong. I'm pretty sure they do. that's a bad thing to miss. Yeah, I don't think that's a bad thing to miss. I just have to go back and like watch it again with that in mind. I think it could be one of those things where you can read it that way. I like reading. Like I think there's a number of characters that you can do that with, but I did not think that. when watching. No, just feel like he specifically is hinting to Cooper Hoffman's character, Ray. He's he specifically hints to him. It's not even like their relationship together. It's just like he's hinting. I think Ray's like, you have a girl? And he's like, no. And he like smiles at him. Something like that. feel like I'm not the only one who thinks this, but we can always go. it's all subtext, probably. I think it's all subtext. Yeah. I could be wrong. One thing I did really like the world building here. is actually really cool. heard a lot of people talk about how like we don't know a lot about the world, but I think that's really great because we learn about the little things very gradually. They give us enough information at the beginning. We learn there's a war, you know, that's why the long walk exists. Like we get the basic information at the very beginning. I think literally just through text on a screen, which is fine. Plenty of movies do it. But we also see like the world gradually like has kind of gradually decayed around them as they go and it gets worse the longer on the walk they go as their conditions get worse also. It obviously gives crazy Hunger Games vibes because the director directed most of the Hunger Games movies. ⁓ Which is pretty cool. Yeah. I saw a quote from him that someone was like, so they're a little similar and he was like, yeah, I kind of realized I only like making movies about one kind of thing. Just teenagers in fight to the death situations. Yeah, and I'm going to reference the Hunger Games more during my topic. I think that the part that I like the most about this too is how like the characters still feel so wholesome and friendly with each other, even through all of this crazy stuff. I think it makes the brutal moments stand out more, but also it keeps them from being too overwhelming. So I think that without that balance, the movie would not have worked. So yeah, those are my initials. To add on to your world building thing, I was really glad that we didn't get any moments showing the broadcast. or like had some subplot in. To like break us out of it? Yeah, we had the couple of flashbacks. That was the most of it. But I just feel like we've seen that before. It's been done and I don't think it would have added anything. And it was in context. Like he fell asleep. He was dreaming. Yeah, that too. And you want some level. Like that's also backstory. That's not like I'm talking more specifically about like showing what like the audience at home watching the reality show version is seeing. Hunger Games even doesn't do that very much, but that's probably because the book is first person. I don't know whether this is, I feel like it probably is. get that I think the movies do more of that with the whole reality show, like the PR element of it. It's still pretty minimal as I recall. It's a bigger element, but they don't, they aren't like cutting away to it as much. But in that one too, like, There's the game makers are like throwing in curve balls to the participants in a way that they're not in this. The game is so simple here. There's no twist. It's just, ⁓ I mixed up what you were saying. I thought you meant Hunger Games didn't do it as much, but I'm like, no, that it did it way more than this did. But ⁓ I, I agree with you. think what's happening. This was a stupid note, but none of these idiots wore sneakers or did any stretches, which I just like not deal breaking. But I felt the need to call it out. Feeling smarter about that. I'd die before the end of the first day. Because I have flat feet. So if you wear the right sneakers, that's not a problem. No, but none of the yes, I worked in a sneaker store for a summer. I had to learn a decent amount about it and you we could find you the right sneakers. Are you telling a flat footed person what? their experience should be, Evan? I am telling you that the world is more accessible than you might think it is. Are you being ableist right now? No, let me not go that far. Only if you're being left, what it is, a disability. Actually, a few years ago, you couldn't be accepted into the army if you had a ⁓ really? Or drafted. I think it was drafted. I won't get into this. There are... differences in like the shoes you should wear based on like your arch height, but I never had heard of it as like, it's not necessarily a bad thing. No, it's just a thing to know when you're getting shoes. I have no arch to the point where you know how you pour pancakes in a pan? Like, yeah, when the batter is thick enough, and it just layers and spreads out. That's what my foot looks like when I step. Yeah, spreads out like a pancake. I could recommend certain shoes for that. You were supposed to and you never did. I think. Well, OK, my information is all out of date, too, because I was working there in like twenty eighteen. And now I didn't survive past the first day because of you. Yeah, I was curious, though, how long you guys thought you could go. And you're saying first day. Angel, what do you think? I don't know, because here's the thing. I walk a lot like I'm not even kidding you. Part of the reason I was a little late. I walk two and a half miles home every night. like I walk all the time. But this is a whole other thing. I walk every year at Comic Con a lot. I walk at Ren Fair. Like I walk a lot. But to do like whatever it was, like 300 miles, that seems like so much. I would definitely like start to lose my shit, especially as it got later on. And like I had to go to the bathroom and like I wanted to just like drink some water like. Eventually, I think I would just start to go crazy. I don't know. Maybe like I could maybe do like a day and a half, and then I think I'd drop. The sleep would get me. Yeah, exactly the sleep. I walk one time for three and a half hours straight and my lower back was messed up for the next two days. Mm So I'm cooked. think the sleep would do me in because I also walk a lot. Philly is a very walkable city, thankfully. And I was remembering, I had a situation a couple of years ago. I'll try to keep the story short so we can get into the topics, but this was like in my head the whole time. So a couple of years ago, I went up to my parents for father's day and my brother was like, Hey, me and a couple of friends are going to go do a hike up in New Hampshire. Do you want to join us? And I was like, all right, cool. He says 10 miles. It's going to be up some mountains. And I was like, okay, I've done 10 mile runs before I walk a lot. I should be okay. It'll be a long day, but. We can do this. I did not realize what mountain hiking is like. Like I've done elevation. This was a completely different thing. we all had like big packs of food and tents and clothes and whatever on our backs. I had to tap out. I think it was like seven miles in and we were going to like camp overnight and we had a few miles left to get to our spot and we were going up this huge incline. And I had been like the weak link for most of the day, but I was just like, I need to stop here. Like if I keep going, I'm pretty sure my body's just gonna give out and I'm gonna collapse. And there were like no roads. It would have been basically impossible to like just get out of there. Like we still, the shortest way Yeah, it was a different movie. Yes, it is. But it was like four miles to the next thing. So I was just keeping that in my head because I was like, okay. I at least know what it feels like to hit that limit. I don't know what that would look like on a regular road. I'd probably drop in the middle somewhere. ⁓ I think I'd maybe, I could see myself getting to like 25th out of I was gonna say you might get cooked on that hill where they lost a lot of. ⁓ yeah. No, I'm good at running up regular hills. This kind of mountain hike we were doing is like, We were basically climbing half the time. It's not that kind of hill. That's what I was expecting it to be, was that kind of incline. Cross country running, I always did a little better on hills than most people. The flat parts was where everyone else passed me. you roll down the hill when you were done? You were like, I have to go home guys. No. then you just rolled down the what countries did you visit? Southern Rhode Island mostly. That's not a country. It should be. You could just let it float away. I'm kidding. I love Rhode Island. Jelani, do you want to go first? Let's start with yours, go into mind and with Evans, and then we'll go back to my the deeper meanings one. OK, sounds good. This is where I reveal I don't have a topic. No, I'm kidding. My topic, I kind of touched on a little bit already why you would make friends in a life or death scenario. So the premise of the movie for those who don't know, which you should if you're listening to this episode, only one of them is going to make it to the end. If you stop, they shoot you. and then you die and it's over. And then after, you know, however many miles, the last person out of 50 wins. They get untold riches and money and stuff like that. But the thing we see from the very beginning of the movie is that these characters like talking to each other, starting to get to know each other. And there's only a couple of exceptions where they clearly don't want to form attachments. Stubbins, Kali. Yeah. I'm not going to remember most of the names. I know there's like the big guy that everybody thinks is like super athletic. doesn't want to. Yes. Devon's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to be important later. ⁓ Which I want to talk about him a little bit. He's really winds up being great character. A lot of them. It doesn't seem to fully hit them at the beginning. I think maybe that's why they start to form bonds. Because if you think about it, all these are kids. They're all like, you know, they're all I think. They don't tell us how. they're supposed to be 18 at least. They're all supposed to be, but I think they're all like 18, 18. Like exactly 18 pretty much. Like none of them are really any older. I kind of assumed 18 to 19 because they make a big deal about that one kid who's definitely like 16. Who's the first to go. think his name is Curly. Yeah, he's like the first to go. But they make a big deal about that. But other than that, like most of them are like they're young. And I think it adds to like the naivete of like they don't really understand what they're getting into until they get there. So they're just kind of like, it's normal, they're just kind of walking and it seems nice. I think it's sort of a protection mechanism where they're like blocking out the reality of their situation. And I think that kind of forming those bonds kind of helps. I feel like you don't see that element as much as you should in movies like this. Like you'll get elements like people that are like put into, let's say like a fighting pit together. and they're forming bonds that way, even though they're being told to kill each other. But a lot of the time that is them forming bonds with the hope that they will earn their freedom or they'll escape somehow. This is a case where they know full well that only one of them is walking out. ⁓ I did what I did. The Evan thing. That's great. Join me. Be an accidental punished. So one of the closest examples is again, going back to the Hunger Games. only one person is going to survive. The closest we really see with that is in the career tributes, which for those who don't know are the sort of people from the richer areas of the country that are trained to do this from early on. But those seem like much more manipulative friendships where like they're forming these bonds together to like take out the weaker people who they see as the weaker people. And then they're eventually going to betray each other. And they just kind of don't think about that until they have to. That is kind of what makes this movie unique in that like they're not forming bonds to manipulate each other. They're not trying to mess with each other for the most part. Like they're genuinely trying to form friendships and they care about each other. And it's like really sweet in a lot of ways. And it makes it really sad when a lot of them die to, I guess, the end of the movie. Like only one of them makes it out and it's Pete. And like the ending honestly had me crying because you really feel his friendship. that he formed with Rey. I feel like this is one of the movies where even though they only spent like three days together, it's earned when they say they love each other because like they're forming this bond together in a way that like only they can understand going through the same thing at the same time. It's such a massive amount of intensity and just having time to stand with each other and really get to know each other. It's something that I don't think any of us ever have a way of experiencing. It's sort of like what I imagine would be, not that I know, the intensity of like going through a war together or like even just a single battle where you're surviving for potentially days on end and eventually like you might lose each other or you might make it out together, but like- Or even just being deployed. Yeah, exactly. Even just that. Like it's like one of those things where three days feels like your entire life. And they talk about it pretty explicitly in the movie too, where they're like, you know, You're not supposed to form friendships, but like, I like you guys and it's, it's important that they have these bonds at the end, because then at least they're dying with people they care about as opposed to just dying and thinking about the way that the system has kind of crushed all of them. This is their way of like taking it back, I guess. But I want to throw it to you guys too and see what you guys think. That's one of my notes actually to answer the question directly. Why characters make friends in the last man standing scenario? ⁓ I don't think anyone wants to die alone, which is kind of what happens with Barkovic. Even his last line, I'm going to be with you whores forever. Like that's pretty on the nose. He's the guy. He messes with that guy who like then like goes at him and then like slides along the pavement in. ⁓ yeah. Gnarly. Yeah, that was crazy. I was not expecting that. Also, I don't know if you feel like you said this. They're not fighting each other for the winner. That's the difference between this and something like Hunger Games. The goal is to walk, not to fight each other to the death. So I do wonder what would happen if two boys like fully started fighting. I guess they would both just die. This is a pretty stupid way to go out. Not if they're walking three miles an hour, I feel like. Like I feel like if they were moving forward still, they would just let it happen. That would look so weird. would. Saying that to say, I think it makes sense. It makes sense they'd become friends in a situation like this or else they'd end up like Stevins or Barkovitch. So, Evan, do you have? Yeah, I mean, I'd echo most of the points you guys have. There's a little bit of strategic advantage to it. Like they help each other get through, like they basically let each other sleep at a couple points. So that's like the only like practical reason I would say. Otherwise, I agree with like, yeah, it's trauma bonding. You're like, with the only people who can relate to what you're going through. And, you know, they're the only people there. I also feel like part of why you would develop a deeper bond is like during your conversations, I think just you'd have some unexplored parts of yourself come out in a situation like this. And I feel like it would come in waves. Like sometimes you would feel kind of okay about it. Sometimes you'd feel like you could win, sometimes you'd be like, no shot am I winning? And I feel like that would just hit at different levels throughout the whole thing. Especially like the longer you're there, the more those kinds of... Because I think it's just how brains work. Like, I'm not gonna say this properly, but like, I think we're not able to stay at like a heightened level of an emotion for especially long. So like, as afraid as you might be, eventually you're just gonna get bored of your own steps after a certain point. I just found myself thinking about that. And I like that this is the route that they took. That it's... it's wholesome. Because it's so easy to take a situation like this and be like, yeah, wow, don't people suck? Look at what they'll do in a situation like this. Like, everyone turns on each other. And it was nice to have a wholesome version. of this. Well, it's awesome as it could be. Yeah, I mean, it's still it's still pretty gnarly because like like you were saying about like the ups and downs, like we get some points where like even Ray, who's a great character like Ray's awesome. And I love his friendship with Pete. But even he has a point where like he loses his mind for a second and yells at Pete because in his mind, he's like, well, everybody's eventually going to betray me. Like he's got a very cynical outlook on all this just from just from his motivation. for like why, which I think is actually not in the book, if I remember correctly. Like I haven't read it, but I think from what I've heard, they changed that for the movie to give him like a more specific goal, like the stuff with the major didn't happen in the book. So they added like a backstory for him. But I think that adds a lot to his character and to the ending, which was also changed from the book. Because I think he makes it to the end of the book, but in this it's Pete. Yeah, I want to talk more about the book ending. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we can wait on that then. But yeah, I agree with Chang. Like, we can't stay in that heightened state for very long. And like, even when they're happy for a little bit, there's only so long that can go before the reality of their situation hits them randomly, like out of nowhere. And then, you know, they start to. But it's interesting because they also never turn on each other. Really, there's a couple of instances where they come close. But even that one guy, Stebbins, like he's kind of bonding with them at the end a little bit too, because they're like some of the last ones there. And we learn a lot about him and, you know, why he's there. And he becomes like a really interesting character, like out of nowhere. One thing I also wanted to talk about too, I like that they juxtapose the way that the major talks about this being an honorable thing with the way that the other characters talk about it. Because the major's version of like it being an honorable thing is like doing this for the state and for the country thing to like help economic growth and stuff like that. And that's what he's like pushing. All of them reject that as time goes on and they find the honor is in just like being together and helping each other. Cause it's like you were saying Evan, like they're helping each other and it kind of seems strategic in that they're letting each other sleep and they're like holding each other up. But like in reality, why would you do that? Because all you're doing is like delaying the inevitable. Alright, so we'll move to natural progression of friendship, which is adjacent to Angel's topic. Most of the beginning of the movie is just guys being dudes. As a dude myself, I vibe with it. I don't know if you guys know, but I am a dude. We are We're all dudes. We're all dudes. It all felt pretty natural and I think it did a good job showing us who everyone is with first impressions. For example, Hank's... like environmental thing. Stebbins being standoffish, Barkovich not really gelling with everybody from the beginning, or they all kind of look at him weird. Those are the major ones I can think of. The four musketeers learning about one another while clowning each other, it also felt natural. Everyone ribbed on everyone, so nobody stayed the butt of the joke. This is more towards the beginning section of the movie, like beginning third. Garrity and McVree save each other and other people. numerous times throughout the film. Gerrity's kind of like a jerk when we first meet him, because he's just being mean to his mom and then hugs her and whatever. But then, me personally, I kind of still wasn't on his side. was like, are we supposed to like this guy? And then he saves Curly. And he's like, keep walking, keep walking. Walk it off or whatever. We'll save is a strong word. He tries to save Curly. Yeah, he tries to. I think Gerrity McVeigh's friendship had to be the strongest for the end to work. And I think holding off on McFries' backstory to nearly the end, working in his favor because it's fresh in the viewer's head. So why he's doing this, where he's coming from. Best scene in the movie, I think. ⁓ where he's... Backstory. Yeah. Yeah. Where he's moving, where the scar came from. Because he's talking... It's right after he's talking him out of like throwing the race with his mom being there. He's trying to distract them enough and he's like, all right, bomb drop. Barkovich coming around before he takes his own life. I'm not going to say that felt natural, but I think there's a lot you can imply from how he acts leading up to it. I think it happens a little quickly. I think that's the issue. It's not that it's bad necessarily or like that doesn't make sense. It's just like it kind of felt like the movie's not long. So they had to like say that again. The movie is not a lengthy film, so they kind of had to get rid of characters pretty quickly, which is what that hill scene is for and like some of the rain stuff, a couple other things, but like it definitely happens like kind of fast. So, but there's enough build up to it that I think it still works. Yeah. One, the bully persona is a front. Two, it feels like what they were implying is the father or his father is his reason for his messed up psyche or something. Because he mentions his father at one point and as soon as he does he starts slapping himself in the head and like... Watch out for him. Remaining boys all agreeing to do something nice for Hank's wife is a nice moment as well. Even Steben saying, go team was funny. Even though it's like a fine, I'm here anyway. Yeah, even Kali coming around in that moment because he had been pretty silent up until that moment. Except when he was... telling Barkovich to leave rank alone, believe. Our moment was heartbreaking as well. Don't watch them do it. And even we, what I like about that moment is even we as the audience don't see it clearly. We know what's happening though. Yeah. Like they do. So I think that was a great choice. It keeps us in their perspective, which is really good. Right. without- I think it's essential for Shying away from it. I think it's essential for movies, especially with this level of intensity to like- We need to see at least close to what the characters see, even if we get a hint at something that they technically wouldn't. Like, we get the feeling more if we get like a blurry visual. We need to be walking with them. Long walking with them. I don't even think we get like a shot of like a body that's left behind. Like when they walk by it, we just kind of see it fade into the distance. Yeah. Although the deaths are kind of brutal, like more brutal than I was expecting. Like we see a lot of blood. Like a lot of them, they don't just like cut away off screen. Seeing Carly's, the first kill of Carly made me immediately switch a mindset into, this is more horror adjacent than a lot of the other ones I've seen. Cause seeing, if you slow it down, I think you see his teeth fly out. Yeah, I think so. From the gunshot, which is insane. And that, that and the... one with rank where his face, we already mentioned his face sliding across the concrete was wow. Yeah. Which also is that how it would have I feel like that wouldn't happen that way. Like I was watching. I'm like, this is a cartoon now. Like not that it wasn't terrible. And I was really sad watching it, but I'm like watching it. I'm like, I don't think that like there wasn't any ice. The road wasn't slick from rain like he wouldn't have. He wouldn't have slid that far. I feel like unless he was thrown which he wasn't so well it was a really hard punch guys that's what you gotta understand like he even he had some strength behind him FALCON PUNCH I guess he won punch man but he missed that's all my notes for that section I don't know if you guys I didn't throw it to you guys in the middle cuz I don't know you guys ⁓ had any other notes for that I mean, I felt like it was pretty believable. Like, I think you wouldn't get into backstories until later. I can see the resistance, but I don't know if you said this or if it was just in your notes, but this reminds me a lot of like days I've been a PA on a set, where it's just like- I mentioned that. ⁓ yeah. You know, you don't get this deep with people on like a one or two day job. But I feel like especially when there's a larger group, it's just like you kind of end up gravitating toward a certain group of people throughout it. Like there are not like rivalries or mean or anything, but there are like little groups that form. Sometimes it's just based on who's assigned where. It's a little clicky, but not in like a bad way. It's kind of like going to camp where like whoever's in your group, just kind of wind up like getting to know them regardless of if you get along at like any other point. Half the time you don't even know their name. Yeah. Yeah, so I was using my notes for the other section the same thing can be said with background work for films and TV I usually get Instagrams before we wrap with the people I chat with and the roommates Movie I did now Netflix not sponsored. ⁓ wait, you were in moments Yeah, my mom sent me two pictures of me being the background both of them You don't really see my face was cut which kind of annoyed me because I was on set for 4 days for that. That's crazy. ⁓ wait, you told us that because you met you met Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler. Yeah. Okay. I've been seeing friends log that on Letterboxd. I didn't remember that you said you were in it when I saw that. I'm in the spring break scenes and the some of the classroom scenes. We got to do a watch along and we should ⁓ see if we can find Jelani in the movie. Yeah. Good luck. That had a good number of us sticking together. when I did the spring break scenes, I had like a group I met with the first day and kind of just stuck with and kind of they kind of grew over the next two days. And then I went back the following week for the college scenes. And some of them were also there too. So you know, I was like, Hey, what's up, y'all hung out with them for my time there. I was saying all that to compare it to the PA stuff Evan was saying. It's like that. Yeah, I've been in the same boat too. Like just being a PA on set or like an AD or whatever, like he just gets to people. If we're done with both of those topics, we can move to Evan's ⁓ social experiment. Yeah, so my topic is the elements of a social experiment movie. I was telling Jelani before we started, because we've had a little bit of time between me watching this and us doing this episode, I'm going to make a full video about this topic. And this was just kind of beginning of my notes, but we've done episodes on several social experiment movies. I think I would call this the fourth one. Circle, The Menu, Would You Rather, and now this. And now that I've seen a few of them, I've realized that there's just some elements that are there in all of them at varying degrees. So I was just gonna list them, and the topic can be pretty quick. One is Rules and Containment. Pretty clear for this one. Keep walking. You know, the page you're to keep three warnings, last man standing wins. Very clear and simple. Themes and social commentary. I would say that's the category that this does the least. We talked a bit about how like, we see a little bit of the outside world, but not too much of it. There's like, I would give it a like three out of 10. Not necessarily in how well it does, just in like- You said for themes? ⁓ I- When I say themes, I don't mean like- themes in general, mean like social commentary themes. Like what is this saying about society? I'm gonna fight you on that. Okay, go ahead and do it. No, not yet. Pulls on brass knuckles. Actually, wait, I take it back. The one that this actually does the least is making compelling decisions for the characters. Not necessarily in that no character makes a decision in this movie, but like the construction of the experiment, there's no decision making. It's not like circle or would you rather or 12 angry men where it's like here, here's this binary decision. Oh, not always buying right. like, there's a thing that you decide. It's the nature of the situation they're in to like they they're they're literally walking in a straight line. There's not a lot of ways like basically your decisions is like, you can keep walking. you can stop and kind of in the middle, you can help each other keep moving. That's pretty much all that you can do. The only decision they don't make is like deliberately getting each other killed because even that one time where Barkovich does it. Initially, I thought he was doing like a strategy thing, but it turned out he was just that's just a personality and he doesn't know how to interact with other people, you know, like a socially, I guess, a socially responsible way. He felt terrible about it after he got defensive, but he felt terrible about it after like what he did. But you're right, the scope is very small of what they can do. When I say that there's no decisions, it's not to say that the characters are robbed of agency. It's just comparing to like the other versions of this type of movie. Some of them focus very much on like what choice, like 12 Angry Men, have the votes that everyone casts. Circle, same thing. They vote on who dies. Would you rather it's one thing or the other binary decision? And there's none of that really here. And then the last category is characterization, which this does a ton of. Yeah. So that was kind of what locked me into this topic was like, none of those other movies do nearly as much to characterize. Circle deliberately doesn't characterize anyone. They're reduced to stereotypes in that very, I don't know if it does it effectively, but it's very purposeful. It's very intentional. That quote for the black guy scene. I was rereading some quotes from Circle to prepare for the video and I was like, wow, I forgot just how cringe some of this dialogue is. haven't seen this film and now I'm scared too. It's interesting, but there's some, well, we're to vote for the old people. All right, vote for the old people. It's still kind of funny to me. You got to watch it. Okay. It is interesting. ⁓ It was, it was not one of my more favorite. movies to watch for this show, but it was a very interesting one to discuss on the show. Okay. That's good to know. That's interesting. And someday we'll do 12 angry men. Ooh, I'd like that. Yeah. That was my notes. I basically just wanted to name those categories. What is your pushback on the like social commentary? Cause I can see there being some more of that than maybe I initially thought. Yeah, that's why I had to watch. so shout out to Lucas blue on YouTube. He helped me understand the movie more. I knew it had deeper meanings to it, but I needed help deciphering what they were. His video was like 15 minutes, I think, max. It had three parts to it, and it was about a couple of themes. I'm only gonna mention two here, one of which is systemic oppression. So this parallels to the Vietnam War, asking young boys to sacrifice themselves for honor. There is a quote from his comment section that I screenshotted because I wanted to read it word for word. Shout out to just Burns G5 V on YouTube. found Collie's character the most fascinating. I took him as a microcosm of the native spirit. Collie's was the one of the remaining five. You remember the Native American? think he was a long. ⁓ yes. OK, I he was. I know who you're talking about. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I liked him. a lot. He didn't talk much, but he had like an interesting air about him. And like the few times he did, I feel like he was standing up. Was it Stebbins or was it? ⁓ No, he was standing up for rank against Barkovitch. Right. Yes. No, OK. I do remember that then. That was really good. Yeah. I feel like he's a good actor. I think I've seen him in other stuff. So quote, found Carly's character the most fascinating. I took him as a microcosm of the natives, native spirit. He doesn't show fatigue like the other characters suggesting that like McVree's ⁓ black character. He's used to it, doggedly moving forward despite the pain, notably though he flares up with anger throughout the film. But unlike Garrity, it's never hinted at that it has a personal origin. He's rightfully angry at the state, their cruelty. He dies in an act of rebellion. He had no chance of winning, but chose to go out with honor fighting. He chants in Algonquin. As he dies, evoking freedom, self-expression, and humanity, he doesn't even give the state the pleasure of watching him die slowly, which is why they gutshot him. He kills himself all the while staring into the eyes of his oppressors. Even in death, he refuses to bow to them." End quote. So, shout out to Jess. That's hard. Another theme within the systemic oppression topic is no real choice. It's straight up discussed in the film towards the beginning when Gerrity talks about the escape patch. If you're suffering all your life and you're told only this one escape patch is your way out. who's not gonna take it. So it's not really a choice with these boys signing up. Some viewers glossed over it. There was, I'm not gonna mention the channel name, but I started watching somebody break down how they would survive it. And it's like, it didn't even seem like this person watched the movie. So I couldn't finish it. And the long walk itself, like the event representing everlasting struggle with no end in sight. The other topic he, Lucas Blum mentioned was cycle of despair. So this is where I'm going to mention the book ending. The book ending had Garrity winning. And he ends up continuing to walk even after he wins, chasing a shadowy figure that some interpret as hope and others interpret as vengeance and others, other others interpret as other some other things. I like some people interpret it as death. like, like that too. Like he's losing it to the point where like now he's like. walking into the afterlife basically like he does die at the end after everybody else does like he still wins but he dies too and one of the biggest like oh snap I didn't realize until someone had told me beats and this is what I'm gonna end it with. Gerrity and McReeze end up believing in each other's wishes. Gerrity stops because he believes in McReeze's hope for the world but McReeze carries out the vengeance on the major and I think that is hot. That's what's up. That's sexy writing. Yeah, I agree. I think that's the saddest part of the ending too. Like, think the part that drove it home for me was the fact that like, Pete's such a hopeful character. And this, the state in this went so far and broke them all so much that it made him as vengeful as Garrity was at the beginning. Like, he gave all of his hope to Garrity. Garret, he took it and he died as peacefully as he possibly could in the situation. now Pete has to walk away knowing that all of that might be gone for him forever. And it's tragic. It almost made me cry. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. And with Pete being the one that walks off and everybody disappearing, like it makes me think I interpreted as he got shot immediately, Yeah. Yeah, I a lot of that. I've been thinking about if he did. I think so. If you could read it like literally that he gets shot, I also feel like what's coming to mind is that it's kind of a spiritual death that like he survives, you know, he's hollow. Yeah. wants to keep walking. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, for sure. And also to like like a. It's interesting to think about the idea that like if they didn't shoot him because imagine like it's kind of like the same thing as the Hunger Games also where it's like they can't kill them at the end because of what they're supposed to symbolize. There's the possibility the same thing happens with Pete where they can't kill him and now their boss is gone. They don't know what to do. I've heard that interpretation a lot or like he becomes the new major. No, I sure hope not. That would be terrible. No. I think it's okay to leave it ambiguous, because I feel like one thing I was kind of waiting for, and I suppose they hinted this a bit, Gerrity has this goal of killing the major, and part of me was like, okay, maybe they're gonna show it as like if you kill the major, society is fixed. I think it's more powerful, and I don't know if the movie agrees with me or not, but I feel like you kill the major. somebody's there chain of command they can take over nothing else what I told you is yeah yeah no I think if anything it could potentially get worse like if they want this to be realistic I think that killing a figurehead doesn't always do anything he gets replaced by Jack Nicholson he doesn't need a space by Jack Nicholson and I think there's other dystopian stories where that happens in some capacity this is a bit of a dumb movie I think it's fun but Equilibrium does this. I think where they're like, ⁓ yeah, that figurehead guy, died like 20 years ago. I've been here the whole time as the actual figurehead. I think it's probably the same thing here. Maybe this world hasn't been there for very long, but like he's got contingencies. He's, if he's going out there. No, that's Batman. That's his nemesis. well, yeah. Couple layers to Well, the majors had a lot of prep time, so. ⁓ And he's he has no qualms about using guns, so. Not at all. Let's see what Batman can do. think imagine imagine in the flashback he's holding the gun up and he's like, make your choice, Mr. Garrity. And then the gun goes bang and it has. Sorry. And then it does a. I think it's amazing that you could tell the entire time he legitimately did not think he was going to die. Like he had no right. No, the major, he had no clue that. ⁓ yeah, yeah. Honestly, he really thought that he could talk his way out of this and then he got shot. Yeah. To him, I think that was the most and you can tell, like that's him throughout the entire film, just the hubris of him like. He's letting them insult him because he thinks he's untouchable. Yeah. Anyways, I wanted to bring all of that again. Shout out to Lucas Blue on YouTube. Your video essay on the topics really helped me understand it. And I'm sure it opened these guys' eyes to your brains are now a little bigger. Yeah. Supernology. ⁓ One more point before we wrap, because I'm through all of my notes. I wonder if Garrity would have kept walking if he saw his mom in the crowd at the end. I don't know. I actually did want to talk about that a little bit. I think that one of the stronger scenes for me was also when he sees his mom and he runs up to her like, I'm so sorry. Like the moment he's realizing that he's doing exactly what his dad did, like I think there's a part of him that is very like disappointed and probably resentful that his dad didn't abandon them necessarily, but like his principles got him killed and I mean, Pete points that out. Yeah. He's like your dad abandoned you. Yeah. Your dad left you and like refused it. And I think that didn't fully click for him until he realized that he was doing the exact same thing that Ray was doing the exact same thing. And the tragedy of like, he just wants to sit there and be with his mom, but that's exactly what's going to get him killed in this moment because he already made the decision and it's already over. The way that he was thinking about it, don't know that he necessarily, he was thinking in a much wider scale. Like his viewpoint before that was very limited in that like all he wanted was the revenge part. He wanted to get his hands on the carbine so that he could kill the major. Now his scope is so much wider, like Pete's was this big hopeful, like feeling of like wanting to make a better world. I don't know that him seeing his mom would have necessarily broken that. I think he was already too far into it. Almost like Pete's. point of view, like we said, I got transferred to Ray. So I think at that point and at that point too, he's confused, he's tired, he's cold, like he's barely slept. He probably has to go to the bathroom. He was walking for miles without, I think that's glossed a little too lost over. He was walking for miles on concrete without shoes. Yeah, he was, which is crazy because I think it was even, it was during the day that he lost his shoes and then the movie ends at night. Like is. feet must have been raw. Yeah, I mean, it was also raining. So, know, his socks are wet and a lot of people, including me, don't like that feeling. So, no, it's the I probably would have just sat because they will never get dry. There is no worse hell than wet socks. It is it is terrible. Fellows, dudes. That's it for me. I don't know if you guys had more. think this was a short but powerful episode. Wait, is the long walk our shortest episode? That's insane. I think it's the shortest one in a minute. I had one other note, not really on anything we were talking about, but just Pete's thing about like, he talks about it in the scene after they see Gerrity's mom. Being optimistic and hopeful is hard. ⁓ yeah. It's great. It's a good, yeah. And I think it's something that a movie like this can do where we hear his, especially when you pair it with his backstory, like I just kind of love that because I feel like optimism is always. portrayed as this like easy thing to achieve or naive a combination of the two. Having a character who's been through hardship and acknowledging like hope is difficult. It takes work. It's not a set state. I really liked that. So just wanted to shout that out before the end. Yeah, that's a good show. I do want to talk really, really quick about that too. Also with his backstory, like I agree with you, Evan, that it's like to see that character going through that level of transformation from like a just sort of like a writing perspective. I think it's also really hard to have a character go through that whole arc off screen and not have it feel like kind of cheap that we didn't see any of that, especially. I think the way that they accomplish that here is by at the end, obviously he kind of becomes he's the one taking center stage because Ray dies. We're watching him reveal his transformation and then we're watching him transform Rey and then kind of having to be the one to deal with the consequences of the world after that. So I think that's why it's so much stronger. And I just really liked that. So it's weird because it's not, he doesn't exactly have like a flat character arc because in a way like he kind of becomes like Rey, but in that way he also kind of gives Rey this hope before the end. There's a lot more that we could like dissect here, but I think I need more time to like really, really, really get into it and think about it. I think this is going to grow on rewatches for me, which is always a good sign. I think it's going to be one that improves. There's going to be more to unpack. Yeah. I want to read the book now. Once I learn how to read. Miraculous that you got the job that you have. It's actually pretty impressive. Yeah. Doesn't speak great to our education system, but good for you individually. I say it my job all the time, guys. I work at a photo company. ⁓ I don't read. I just look at pictures. Well pictures are worth a thousand words as they say. I wouldn't know because I don't know words Evan because I can't read. Thank you for pointing that out. That's why you don't you never put up notes on the Google Drive. Now we know. It all makes sense now. It does. Go do your stretches. Our upcoming episodes not necessarily in this order. We're to do Daredevil born again season two. I think the finale is tonight right? It is tonight. I'm gonna try to it right after this. I'm gonna have to catch up then. I haven't started. We'll also be doing the boys season five, which I am caught up on at the moment. I'm heading that. I see. I am not caught up on that. I've seen one episode. I had to catch up. I wanted to catch up on Gen V first. So I finished Gen V. I will refrain from saying anything about where the boys is at right now. Then we have our YouTube channel with video essays. I just put up a review of the Devil Wears Prada 2. I'm probably going to make it a video about that soon. I mean, it's one of our better videos right like better performing still it's far and away the best performing thing I have ever made for anything that's insane yeah somehow that happened so I don't know like that a lot actually will because I really like the Devil Wars product yeah I had one right now Mortal Kombat 2 ⁓ I was wondering ⁓ yeah to make us do that yes I'm going to see it Saturday afternoon so I'd be I'd be down for that I have hope for this one. I think that the first one had a lot of issues, I think this one's gonna be ⁓ I think they got rid of our Connor completely which they shouldn't have had it to begin with yeah, so we just have our social medias We're on Instagram blues guy and tick tock at int analysis pod I'm on Instagram blues guy and letterboxd at ev underscore West and Where are you guys? Instagram Jelani T Kelly letterboxd Still coming soon, I promise guys, I keep forgetting, I have the tab open. promising. I have the tab boy who cried wolf. What do mean you have the tab open? What does that mean? the tab open to like start the account, I just, I haven't. Tabs mean nothing. Just start the account. No! You don't even have to touch it yet, just start the account. I'ma make you, I'ma make you do it. Do it while Angel's listing his socials. Uh, no. Okay. You can hire me I only have two, there's not enough time. You can hire me as an actor for your films. I'm getting a lot of callbacks recently. Also be on the lookout for a movie. just attended a premiere for F boys. I don't know when it's coming out officially though. I think they want to take it to some festivals by next year. Yeah, I've getting a lot of callbacks too. So you boys out here, I'm doing something. ⁓ yeah, I have social media too. ⁓ What am I on? ⁓ I'm on Instagram at AngelMashele.film and I'm on Letterboxd at Serenity Cinema. And I have no friend on Letterboxd named Jelani T. Kelly because Jelani T. Kelly still hasn't made a Letterboxd. And I think Hollywood, if he's going out for roles, you shouldn't hire him until he has a Letterboxd. Yeah, if he's ever on the red carpet there, like top four, he'll be like, ⁓ I've never seen a film. I've only watched the long walk. I don't know how to see. I don't know how to see. No, you gotta wait. only movies you ever watch are for this podcast. That's the only evidence that you do it. That's The only place that they've been logged. Darn. Big darn. Okay, bye guys. Alright, bye. ⁓ make sure you stretch. Yes, two stretches, please. Dude, go for a walk right now.