Evan Wessman: Hey guys, welcome back to Interior Analysis. It's been a while. I'm Angel Michelle. I'm Evan Westman. I'm Gelani T. Kelly. And today we're gonna be talking about what might be one of my favorite movies of the year. Spider-Man Brand New Day, Spider-Man 4 of the Tom Holland trilogy. Yeah, I've been looking forward to this one for a while, but all of my thoughts are probably gonna be very positive. So I actually want to start off with what you guys thought first. Evan, do you want to jump in? I can. This was better than I was expecting. I was probably gonna skip this. Tom Holland's Spider-Man has never really done it for me. And I was happily surprised with how good this was. Although I this is through no fault of the movie or mine, but unfortunately, I apologize if I get some details wrong or if I missed a few things. I had this really obnoxious eight-year-old sitting next to me in the theater. Would not shut up for the entire effing movie. So I did miss a decent amount of stuff. I thought it would be maybe fun to have a young fan next to me. It turned out to maybe be the worst theater experience I've ever had. I still was able to enjoy a decent amount of the movie. I think I got most things, but there were a few scenes that I'm pretty sure I missed stuff. That said, this is good. We'll get into it. I I'm okay with calling this the best. live action Spider-Man, even though I wouldn't put it there personally. I'll leave it at that. I think I'll get into pretty much how I feel about this and all the topics, but yeah, this is a good I it doesn't make me more excited for Doomsday, but they did a good job. I mean he's not in Doomsday, so I think that's fair. Yeah, apparently he's not gonna be so that's totally fair. Jelani, what about you? It's a fun movie. It's a long movie though, so I don't know how much of this is gonna like Hold up on rewatch. Hulk's back comedy was cool. Punisher was cool. Felt like he was ripped right out of the TV shows. Elena's there too. I've seen enough of the small potatoes jokes jokes online though. Like everybody's making like comics about it and it's like it really wasn't even that funny in the movie, guys. Please stop. Mr. Milkshake was the villain, which wasn't surprising. He's called Milchick in Severance. Jamel Tillman. And ⁓ somebody ends up calling him milkshake in the show. So that's why I called him Mr. Milkshake. I was really hoping Sadie Sink wasn't Gene Gray. You know, I thought it would have been cool if it was like a villain we've never heard of. Or like a movie original villain. So when it was revealed, I didn't really have a positive reaction. I didn't really have a negative reaction. I kinda just like sighed, I think. It was like, yeah, mutants are here. But ⁓ I'll wait for the actual MCU X-Men movie before I like get hype that you can sit here. Or maybe Doomsday will do more for me there. So my initials, I I love this movie. It's really good. I'm kind of with Evan in that it might be the best live action Spider-Man for reasons I'll get into in my topic. I also never really connected with Tom Holland Spider-Man. I remember seeing Homecoming and being like really excited and then really surprised. that I did not love it the way that everyone else seemed to love it. I thought it was just not really what I was looking for. I always felt like Spider Man was a side character in his own movies a lot of the time for these three. ⁓ and they got gradually better. But I think this one I was so excited because they were really putting Peter back into what makes him so relatable, which is the street level stuff. It's The self reliance having to do everything on his own, the feeling of isolation that he gets having to do this job, and you know, the fact that he does it anyway, it's what makes him such a strong character. And I think this movie really, really nailed that. And while it was like really long, I saw it twice. I don't think I felt the length either time. I saw it once regular and then once in IMAX. And honestly, the the IMAX was really cool. It was really worth it. Especially for like those beginning scenes, like that opening sequence, ⁓ where he's fighting all the different villains. Like it looked really, really good in those moments and the sound quality was great. It was just like it was definitely worth it. I don't know that this really fits into any of the topics, I just want to mention it now. I liked how compared to other MCU films, this one felt incredibly balanced. It felt like what they've been trying to make a comic book movie in like a shared universe be for the last, you know, however long, like fifteen or twenty years, where None of the cameos felt like they stole the spotlight from Peter, and none of them felt like they were just trying to shove it in there to set up something else. None of it felt like they were just doing it to show like, ⁓ look, we're in a shared universe. We all know that. Everybody I think was in the movie for the exact amount of time that they were supposed to be in it. And it never distracted from the main story they were trying to tell. You know, I think in other movies they've definitely had real problems with that, especially it since Endgame Where they've just been trying to set up Doomsday in every single movie this whole time, and it doesn't really feel earned at this point because I don't even know who the Avengers are at this point, honestly. I have no real clue who they are. I know they kind of explain it in Thunderbolts, but now there's two different teams of Avengers, and I just want them to tell me which one is supposed to be the Avengers so I can watch the movie. I don't need it just feels like they're throwing a bunch of action figures together in most of these movies. In this movie It didn't feel like that. Every character served a purpose to the story and was only there as long as it needed to be, and I really appreciated that. So yeah, those are all my initials. I like the movie. I I think it is gonna hold up on more rewatches. I do think whether it's the best is a matter of opinion. And it's also gonna be depending on what you're looking for, as far as a Spider Man movie, because some of them you might be looking for more nostalgia, which that would be the Raimi ones probably. Yeah, so yeah, well, we can jump into Jelani's topic then. My topic was where does this ring? One of the bigger questions surrounding this movie when it came out was where this lines up with the rest of the other Spidey movies. But both live action only and just all of ⁓ If you include all of ⁓ you're only adding two more right now to the lineup. Personally, I have this at fourth. Spider versus both of them still clear, every other Spider Man movie. All of ⁓ I have Into at the top though. I just find myself going back to that one more often than across. I have the Amazing Spider-Man at three. Y'all got nostalgia goggles on. Y'all meaning the audience. Nostalgia goggles on for the Raimi trilogy. And I think I'm allowed to have goggles on for the ⁓ the web duology. Yeah, shout out to Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone. And then I have Brandon Day at fourth. Why it's at fourth? So I can't even say I love this movie. It's a high ranking, but love is a strong word. In this case. I think it's an eight out of ten. But two things knocked it down for me and they were two pretty major things. Right after I watched the movie with my dad and brother, my brother said it was Thunderbolts with the Spider Man skin on it. Which doesn't surprise me, 'cause I think Thunderbolts barely made its money back. I it wasn't as popular. Evan, you didn't see it. No. Yeah, see. ⁓ But Evan just doesn't really unless we I'm not a good barometer, but I didn't see it. Yeah. He's not gonna watch in unless we make him. That's true. But my brother was right with that. It's an all powerful person that crashes out and takes over a part of New York. And the only way they can be stopped is by the power of love or talking them out of it. Same thing happened with S Sentry and The Void and Thunderbolts. The other thing which was a major thing for me, by the time I saw it, which was the week. Following opening weekend, I think I saw it on a Tuesday night. Yeah, it was Tuesday night. There was already a lot of hype built up for it over that weekend. It broke a billion in its first opening weekend. It's just like wow. It's at like two point five now, I think, or something. It's a lot. Yeah. It's crazy high. There was a lot of hype already built up for me over that opening weekend. So I was like, ⁓ There's gotta be something good in this, huh? Yeah, it reached a billion. So For a movie that people were calling the best Spider Man movie, it was cool, but I kept waiting for something. Biggest thing for me is nothing about it surprised me. Nothing about it wowed me. I mean it was solid, don't get me wrong, but I don't understand how this one was the one to make a billion dollars and have people put it at like the top all. Without question, brand new day. You guys what are we even talking? Are we are we are we talking about Spider-Man? That's brand new day is if you t if you talk about Spider-Man, brand new day is at the top. Over Spider-Verse, come on, bro, let's be real. Again, I could give them the amazing Spider-Man because I know I'm biased, but Spider-Verse, stop it. So back to my point about nothing, like it was cool. It was great to see Hulk back. That was a nice little surprise. But Gene Gray, Pon like even the action was just it was cool. But it's kind of like what I expected out of MCU Spider-Man. It was fine. He he did do one insomniac takedown move in the movie. That was kind of cool to see. And I was like, So are you say so you're saying it was too it was just too predictable? Like you were hoping for more scratch. The only thing that got me was Gene Gray being in MJ's mind and acting like she got her memories back. That was the only thing that got me. But my brother was like shaking his head. He he it got h he like he already had figured it out like immediately. He was like, Mm-mm, mm-mm. And I'm like, What do you sing mm-mm for? Okay. That got me. But that also didn't like make the movie for me. Yeah, I echo pretty much everything that you said there. I need to rewatch Amazing Spider Man one, but my ranking is the same as yours, except I think I have a crossover into. But like it's barely a difference. I I debate it a lot. It could change if I rewatch them. I am okay with people calling this the best live action Spider-Man. Like and and I'm pretty much with you. Like it did a good job, but I never got that like aw man. And like the Spider-Verses both give me, and I think Amazing Spider-Man 1 also give me those like aw man. Even as bad as it is Amazing Spider-Man 2 like There's moments in that that I think are pretty transcendent. Like the highs of that movie I think are still like it's a much worse movie than Brand New Day. I think the highs still are a little bit higher. The the opening scene well, it's not the opening scene. The opening scene was just get rid of the plane. Just get rid of the plane. ⁓ That opening scene rips. The ⁓ Well no, it it does, yeah. Just the jumping from super high And the whole action sequence. I rewatched that that Times Square scene, bro. Pretty weird. Where he yo, where he I his spider sense is cracked in that movie because when he did the thing and he only had one web shooter working and he saved everybody on those stairs while stopping, that was nutty. That was nutty. Like that's what I'm saying. There's moments in that that are incredible. The movie as a whole is really messy, but like there are moments that are like, ⁓ man, like they might be the best Spider Man moments in any ⁓ yeah. I I I have a new comment. Except when he's letting those people die while Rhino is it's a big I know that's a big thing. He's letting those people die. He's like too busy making quips while Rhino is actively crashing into people and blowing up cars. Yeah. He does that a little bit in the Times Square thing too, but they make a point in that one where like nobody dies saving every single person. No, nobody dies. He's saving every single person. They just ignore it in the opening part. I agree with you on that. I have a lot more love for that movie than I used to. I used to rank it as my lowest one, and now I don't because I think that like it does have those moments. Like even that mo the moments with like where he saves like the kid from a from bullies, that's like a total Spider Man thing. I love that. It's got some of the best web swinging action, like It's one of those like moments over the whole movies. Like it's got a lot of really good pieces, they just don't all connect. From one, sorry to jump in, I wanted to ⁓ add like probably one of my favorite Spider-Man scenes ever was ⁓ from Amazing Spider-Man one, since we're ⁓ on a glaze journey with that. The scene with Flash after his uncle died. I was like Yes. ⁓ my god. That's something I wanted them to explore more. Because him and Flash do eventually become like friends and that was a that was a very humanizing moment. They never follow up on that, unfortunately. I mean kind of the end of the movie. It shows that they're cool. Sorry. Yeah. Like F Flash is like a they make Flash a person. Yeah. Which is great. They don't do that in the other movie. They added a third dimension with one line, bro. That's insane. It's well, I think that like if if we're kind of zooming out on all Spider Man media, like what the Garfield duology kind of added to it that I think i the Holland movies are kind of standing on their shoulders in like giving him a personality. Because like if you wanna I know we bring this up a lot, but you know what? Screw it. It's a Spider Man episode. Angel, welcome to us talking about Spider Man. I know you've been here for it, but you haven't been here. You act like I haven't been here for two years at this point. I know, but you this is the first time we're doing a Spider Man episode with you, so that's why I'm doing you have been here for a while. And we and it's we've had no shortage of talking about Spider-Man. But Yeah. The thing that like, I mean Jelani and I know where each other stand and now he's got his Miles mask on. Yes he does. It's so he can take a nap, but we won't notice. It's always within reach. Yeah. The thing that like I Will give the Raimi trilogy and Jelani, I think you're with me on this. The structure of those movies is really solid. Like on paper, the outline version of Spider-Man 2, I and even the first one, I think those are both good movies. Where I fall off with them as a tonal thing, and like just Sam Raimi's sensibilities, the acting sensibilities, the campy dialogue, I can't really get into it. It's the kind of things I don't like. I don't like that. I'm not hungry for that cheese. Yeah, I can only tolerate a few bites of it at a time in the form of their beams. Green goggles was funny. Right. They have their moments. They're charming, but I do think like nostalgia goggles is the term you always use. I agree with it. They have it there. I kind of feel like this movie is Spider-Man 2's like it's not its plot exactly, but it's kind of trying to do the same thing. I guess thematically and in terms of character journey, but I take this one more seriously because it's not doing the Raimi things. The Raimi trilogy understands like what Spider-Man is on paper and the plots do that. What the Garfield duology gives is like actually making him feel lived in. Like you can rag on their plots a lot. You like those stories are messy. I think the first one still basically works, but there are changes I would make to it. What it offers is like Andrew Garfield's a really good actor, Emma Stone's a really good actor. Their chemistry. And Mark Webb, I think, brings out the best in them. Compare that to like I I think if you compare any acting moment of Andrew Garfield to any acting moment of Toby McGuire, and it's like it's pretty clear who the winner is there. And then I think that kind of raised the bar for Tom Holland to be like, all right, this guy can't be an empty shell. He's never worked as much for me personally, but I feel like they kind of had to give him a personality. And they do. And it's not the same as Garfield's, but like I I think they owe a bit to the Garfield duology in that sense. Like they had a bar to clear that was a bit higher. And I don't know if they clear it. But they they do enough. Anyway, I don't know exactly what the point I was making there is, but I am fine with calling this the best live action, but like give a little credit to the Garfields too. And sure, give it to the McGuire's. Yeah, ⁓ if I'm gonna jump in. I I totally I totally agree with that. I think what what you were saying, and I I agree with that here, is like the Raimi trilogy is very good, I think, at consistency, even with Spider Man three. Cause even Spider Man three, it's got a very consistent tone that's in line with the other two and it works really well in that in that own sense. It's just not as good as the other two, which I think in a lot of old trilogies is the case regardless. Like it's gonna be like the third one's not gonna be necessarily as good. It's hard to stick to landing. That doesn't mean it's a bad film. It just means that it doesn't live up to the standards set so high by the previous two. And the web duology, I think, lacks a vision. Like in i I like their tonal thing that they're going for better. I like the filmmaking that's on display in a lot of cases, but like Mark Webb is we are not seeing his vision. We're not we're kind of seeing a collection of studio notes there. Whereas the Raimi trilogy, his name belongs on that. Like it's very clearly his vision. They're Raimi movies, and I I ⁓ that's what I was gonna say too, is I think that that level of consistency is definitely not there with the with the web movies, but I think that what saves those a lot, especially re-watching them now with a little bit of that nostalgia, and, you know, everybody loving Andrew coming back in No Way Home, I think that you see that he brought a level of emotionality and vulnerability to the character that I don't think necessarily existed in all of the Raimi movies. And I think really has not existed in a good chunk of the Tom Holland movies either, until this one. Like My issue with and I don't wanna like spend all this time comparing it to the like the home trilogy because I don't think that's necessarily fair. I think it was trying to do something different. And as much as I think this movie is well, yeah, but I think is as much as this goes as much as like those movies had something different to do, is kind of what I'm trying to say than what this one's doing. This one felt like they were doing a decent amount of course correction, and I think it's course correction that does work. To go back to the ⁓ Garfield movies for a second, they gave him a sense of like vulnerability and emotional stakes that would have worked better had the films been more consistent. Not even necessarily the plot, but at least the tone and the connective tissue working together. And I think that they really they they got cheated by not being able to do a third one to like kind of wrap all that up and make all that work. I also think that. Focusing too much on his parents as opposed to the family he actually has, which is like Aunt May, was not something that everybody wanted. And I think that's an issue in the home trilogy too. I've always said I don't think that they utilize the supporting cast very well. And I think some of that is even true in Brand New Date a little bit, but definitely not to the same extent. Like the fact that he was talking to an AI in Homecoming, as opposed to talking to Aunt May. or talking to MJ about this stuff, really building up those relationships. Because like as much as we know who Ant May and MJ are on paper, we need to see those versions interact with each other to actually care about them as people. You know? And always I still don't care for the AI in this movie either. Same. Yeah, I don't love it either. W what I will what I do like though is that it's not the same as the AI before. He's not it it never feels like he's using it as a source of one emotional support. ⁓ in this one, it seems like he's still doing everything himself. It just like the AI provides a couple of like plot shortcuts. For example, like now the AI kind of helps him build all of these gadgets and all these things for his suit. Things that like it would be cool to see him do, but it's already a long movie and it would take us a lot of time to see him do those things. You know, and the whole like, ⁓ like you're whatever, your Arakton levels are too high. Like We could see him figure that out, which would be more interesting, but again, that would take a lot of time and would probably kill the pacing a little bit. So given how much they have to do in this movie, I think I'm okay with the way they used it, because it's never Peter using AI to do things for him or using gadgets to do things for him. It's there he's using them as tools, but all of the ingenuity of how they're used is him. Everything that he's doing, like is him. Like he's coming up with the ideas himself. He's ⁓ just utilizing the AI for that, I guess. And like I don't love people doing that in real life, but it is a movie. So I'm like, given that the movie has to move along, I understand why they wrote it that way, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I also think that ⁓ to go back to the thing about ⁓ using the supporting cast, given the plot of this movie and the themes of it, there's a much bigger emphasis on him connecting with the supporting cast. So much of the emotional stakes of this is the fact that he misses MJ and Ned, and he misses Aunt May, which I was really surprised that they were able to pull off a solid cameo from her. And in a lot of ways, it's my like it's my favorite scene in the movie. The memory of Aunt May is what brings Gene back to reality and helps the two of them connect together. Like I thought that was really great. ⁓ because Aunt May was also Spider Man brand new cameo. Exactly. But yeah, Aunt May was also a character that like I they didn't build up their relationship at all in the old movies. And I think that's why this one ranks higher, because there's so much emphasis on him building these relationships back up after losing them for so long and telling himself that he's supposed to be alone, that it's better for everybody else. You know, they use the plot of the old movie to like set that up where everyone forgets who he is. But the whole thing is like he's not trying to get everybody's memories back. He's not trying to, you know, reverse the magic spell because that would be a very plot oriented way of going about it, as opposed to this where the whole focus is on the emotional stakes. And like Spider Man as a character, he is a lonely character. He spends a lot of time trying to connect with people and not being able to and pushing people away so that he can do these things that he has to do. He's had he that said that's editorial's fault in the comics. He's had sporting casts before. I want to get into that in my topic, but I think it's an interesting conversation to Yeah. Yeah. My my point was more so like that's why this ranks so high for me. I think my ranking's a little different from your guys's. This is definitely my highest live action one, followed by ⁓ the original Raimi one, 'cause I still love those movies. I think Amazing Spider-Man is it's weird 'cause Amazing Spider Man is like kinda low, but I do love that movie. There's just so many Spider Man movies, it's like hard to pick. I think my top is ⁓ across the Spider Verse though. Yeah, we're ⁓ taking new applications for our third podcast co hosts. Listen, we've talked about this. I like Raimi. I like Raimi movies. I like the original Raimi movies. But like I said, I mean your first pick was drag me to hell. So Yeah. Yeah. And you guys tore it apart, which is like fair, but I was not expecting it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean it was ⁓ that first impression, I know it wasn't your first impression, but like I don't expect us to deviate from that, because we won't. No, and you sh and you shouldn't. I think it's ⁓ I I actually I want to talk about more Raimi movies because now I want us to fight about something else. So my topic is next. ⁓ it is called Back to Basics. Basically it's something I've already started talking about. How I think this movie gets at the core of what makes Spider Man such a great and relatable character by essentially going as simple as possible, despite the plot technically being kind of complicated if you really think about it. As I was saying before, I think the issue with the home trilogy was that he felt like a side character in his own movies. They took away the street level aspect and they made it so that he had all this technology very early on. He had like a super rich mentor that gave him all these resources to work with. It never felt like they really locked into what I think they wanted to do with Homecoming, which is him realizing that reaching too high too early on, it makes you reach for something that you think you're supposed to be. as opposed to figuring out who you're s who you like the best version of yourself. No, it just makes you scared of heights. I think that they sort of end Homecoming trying to do that. And then the problem is that they have the same problem that the entire MCU has. It was the same problem with the Iron Man movies where he gave up being Iron Man at the end of Iron Man 3, but then an Avengers movie had to happen. So he had to be back and he had to do all the Avengers shit. Same thing happened with Spider-Man. I think right after Homecoming or yeah, right after Homecoming it was Infinity War. And then he disappeared, but then he was back in Endgame, and then Far From Home happened, and all of that was about the fallout of Tony Stark. Like everything was so focused on everything else going on in the MCU that you never really had time to give Peter a personality or a character. When you have a movie where Spider-Man is the central focus, like you did in the Andrew Garfield movies, you get a chance to give him a real sense of personality and it it gets to be his journey. When you put him as a character in a larger universe like this, and the plots are all pulling him in a hundred different directions, you can't really give him a consistent arc. And I think the best decision they could have made was the end of No Way Home, where everyone does forget who he is, and you can really set Peter up to just be like, okay, this is what Spider-Man is. He's by himself, he's doing Spider-Man stuff, he is gonna save the city, he wants to connect with people, but he can't. Like to me, that's what Spider-Man is. It's not about him being sad or depressed. It's about him being a young guy who is lonely and is unable to figure out so early on in his life what his priorities are supposed to be and balance everything that he's supposed to do, which I think is just relatable to people in general, especially people in their twenties and like early thirties now who are just trying to figure out the best way to do work and life and relationships and all this stuff. And I think this movie captures that really, really well. Like it focuses way more on the emotionality of Peter. He makes mistakes, he does things wrong, his anger gets the best of him multiple times. I mean, you can blame the whole Arachnant levels thing, but the fact is it's him the mutation element they give him, it is just a physical manifestation of all of this internal turmoil that he has spent four years not really addressing. And in a lot of ways in real life that happens too, where you start to feel unhealthy and you just start to, you know, collapse in on yourself. Yeah, well, to to go into that, I'll spare the details because it's a bit too personal to share, but like in between the last time we had any Spider-Man movie, actually, whether this one or a Spider-Ver, that's been my mid-20s, essentially. And I think the character is a bit younger than that. But the they've been doing weird age things with him. He's 22, but like he's been around to a point where he should be more like 26, I think. Yeah. Well, Spider-Man always starts really young. Yeah. Anyway, I'm getting I'm getting distracted by that. But like I I just know personally, like, there are a couple experiences from the past few years that I found myself like I found resonating in this. And it is kind of that like. Crashing out to like the the short version is I had a restaurant job that I was like burning myself out on. That's a very, very shortened thing. There were a lot of other factors there, but like I feel like him burning the candle at both ends. I was like, yeah, I've I've been there since the last time I saw this character. And I thought it was interesting also that like the MCU kind of has accidentally done COVID because they had the snap. And the blip, which obviously wasn't meant to be a parallel because they did that before. But then between that and then everyone forgetting him, I feel like despite the fact that COVID doesn't exist in the MCU, they kind of gave him that experience. That's just about as deep as I'll get into it, but I feel like this movie was made for like our generation in a way that like the other ones like I like them more in a lot of ways. I've always kind of felt like Garfield is my Spider Man, but like this is trying to reflect the experience of like being in your twenties today. And for my money it does. That might just be me, but I I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way. And I I do kind of appreciate that. It may not make it my favorite of these, but like I did feel kind of seen by this in a few ways. You hear that everybody In your twenties, you're gonna be broke and lonely. But you so are all of us, I feel like to to different extents, but yeah. To different extents. Like I've been close to broke for pretty much all of my twenties, but I I haven't been lonely the whole time, but some of it and like that that crash out kind of came at a time where I was having to like distance myself from people. I don't know how many people end up in those sorts of situations where you have to Or you feel like you have to distance yourself from the people you love. And I thought it was interesting. Like I've kind of been reflecting on this since the I saw the movie. MJ makes some point. The eight-year-old was talking a lot during this scene, so I think I missed some of it. I think she said something about crayons. That's weird. I don't know. But she was she says something like, You were trying to like protect me by not Telling me how you felt. Well, that didn't work anyway. Like you hiding your feelings like I'm I'm in danger anyway. So in a way, you might as well have just said it. And it's not accusatory. What is it? That scene where she she tells him that ⁓ she doesn't love him. ⁓ I I I feel like everybody in my theater felt that there was just a bunch of ⁓ yeah. ⁓ God. They actually said they changed that scene 'cause initially, like, with the dialogue they had, I think it wasn't working and I think they made it so that like the emotionality of I mean, 'cause obviously Zendaya and Tom are married in real life. And so like hearing your partner say to you with full emotion, like I I'm sorry, I don't know you, I don't love you, like that really does hit and you can feel that in the scene. And I think it makes that point that you're making about what she said hit so much harder because like yeah, like One thing that I I've had issues with too is like feeling like if I the best thing I can do for people in my life is like not tell them all the things that I'm feeling because then I'm not like burdening them with whatever's going on, especially if they have other stuff going on. And I think that's kind of the same decision that he was trying to make with this where he's like, Well, rather than tell them the truth and let them make the decision for themselves if they want to be involved, I'm just gonna hold on to all of that myself. But then you don't give them the chance to really know you. You know? It emphasizes that a lot of the isolation that you're feeling in some ways can be self imposed even if you feel forced into it. You know what I mean? What what about the this like the logic of that wasn't your decision to make? Well, if you didn't know about it, it kinda was then. Yeah. Well, one thing we gotta w we gotta point out too, this is based on a magic spell where she absolutely could not have remembered because magic prevented her from remembering. So like there's not really a real life there's not an exact real life parallel to that. Unfortunately. But I will say like I think for point holds a little more water because like it it's like I was saying before, it wasn't his decision to make because like by hiding that from her, he prevented her from having the full emotional context. That she needed to make a decision. He was making the decision for her to not put her in that emotional position at all, even though like he's dealing with it himself. I may not be wording this very well. ⁓ I have not eaten today. but basically w what I'm trying to say is like he is taking full autonomy over the situation emotionally and thinking that that sacrifice that he's doing. Is helping both of them in the long run because then she doesn't have to deal with any of that. But then she does find out, and all of those things hit her regardless. She just wasn't prepared, and she found out in a in almost in like the worst possible way. She found out that somebody she had recently trusted hid something from her, and that it's somebody that she used to care about that she could have potentially helped, even if it was from a distance, because this version of her doesn't really know him. You know. I I heard there were ⁓ incels saying after she said what she said to him, they wouldn't have swung her home. That's messed up. Well, okay, I wanna get into that a little. Like 'cause I that was I wasn't thinking about it specifically from like the incel discourse side of thing 'cause I didn't know about that, although it's not at all surprising. I figured that was gonna happen. Yeah. But I think that's so Antithetical to the character. And I I wanted to bring that up more so in my topic. Do you have something there, Delani? ⁓ no, I was gonna say don't threaten Spider Man fans. They how to r they don't know how to read. Okay. Well, they can eat my ass. But yeah. Anyway. Not very logical thinking. Agree. Not to paint with a broad brush, but some Spider Man fans. Yeah, a lot of them are racist, which is crazy because it's like, ⁓ no, we've discussed this before. We have. We have. Anyway, so I promise this will tie back quickly. Last year I saw Mega Mind for the first time and I just did. ⁓ checked the block. Anyway, I was watching that and I was like, this is okay, but I feel like it would be stronger if Mega Mind doesn't get the girl at the end, like thematically. And it made me think like How is there any like action or superhero movie where the typically male hero knows they cannot be with the woman they love, but they save her anyway? And I think this is that movie. And I am so glad that we have this because I feel like it's so necessary for the genre. Like in so many action movies and superhero movies. Doctor Strange? Yeah. were they together by the end of that? No. No, they weren't. No. The second one is No, but she's not she's not active, I think, in the climax or like most of the plot of that movie. The second one is. The second one? Yeah. ⁓ what's her I forget her. But the second one isn't her. It's ⁓ it's another version of her from another universe. So it's not the same person. That movie left my brain Yeah, like that that's not his love interest in that either. Like she just shows up and I don't remember what she's Did she engage to some I guess I guess maybe the original engage I d I guess it was I don't remember it being a different one. Okay. You could be right about that. I just it's Rachel McAdams as the actor. ⁓ You could be right about that. That movie left my brain, so I I couldn't I can't really bounce off it. Another Raimi movie. Another Rami movie. But back to your point. Yeah, I appreciate that. And another trope that I'm glad it I don't think it a hundred percent dispels it, but it mostly does. There's so many examples, and I think Spider-Man one is maybe the most egregious of this is the girl I like is in a relationship, so her boyfriend must be a massive a-hole. Like Flash in the first movie is that to a T. And I it you see it in other media, but I feel like and you know, I think it's a natural instinct to have when you're in that situation. But in my experience it's not usually true. Like a lot of times, like the the boyfriend's a good guy. Ant Man is a And I like what is it? Ant Man. Yeah. Ant Man does do it. Yeah. The stepfather is a chill dude. Yeah. ⁓ I think doesn't Venom does it. Doesn't Venom One also do it a little bit? I think Venom One also does it. Yeah. And it's weirdly like not Yeah, and then it's really not like that in Venom two. Like so like his personality completely changes in Venom two. I don't remember. I don't think they want they don't want it together anyway, but it does like they just I don't know, it's a weird thing. But yeah, no, th there's very few movies I agree with you, Evan. There's very few movies that do it in like I think a healthy way. And I think that was actually a missed opportunity with this movie, 'cause the guy gets one scene and the only other scene where he's even mentioned is the withholding scene. ⁓ which as much as that's kinda funny leaving Yeah, they leave a little bit of room. They're giving fans an okay to just kinda hate this guy, even though we know nothing about him, and he might even just be a good guy. You know, there may be He's like, ⁓ maybe like maybe she's not satisfied in this relationship and I can kind of slide in. Like Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I think it's kind of playing into the trope to subvert it. I I don't think this movie's too long as it is, like The writer in me says, like, no way can you afford to give that dude another scene. I think they do what they can. And I think they're trying to hedge their bets a little in case they want to do it later. I still really appreciated it because I feel like it's a much better that like and that it doesn't go back on it at the end. Like what you get, the like especially when you have that final scene with Ned, it's like His best friend does remember him and has kind of been platonically pining for him this whole time. Yeah. And that's really sweet. There there was no way ho Homie was gonna get another scene. A. Yep. Yeah. Anyway, I felt like that's a good yeah update to it, especially when you take like the end of Spider-Man one and particularly the end of Spider-Man Two, where MJ leaves deliciousness at the altar. Like to me that kind of knew you were talking about. You know deliciousness. Come on, that's if anyone gets the knows who I'm talking about, it should be you. ⁓ the delicious The delicious John Jameson Jr. ⁓ my god. But like him I feel like that ending kind of defeats the purpose of what it's trying to do thematically a little bit, where he's like, Yeah, I care about you enough to let you go be with this guy and they just write MJ as such an empty shell in that movie that she's like, Well I just can't do that. Like I'm I'm gonna be fair. Al also she kissed him like she was like, Can you kiss me like my ex used to kiss me? Like Like Spider Man Yeah. That's a mental MJ MJ in that movie I think is kinda met ⁓ is kinda messed up. I really wish that they had write her so poorly. They write her so badly. To be fair, the amazing Spider Man one does it too, to where it's like, yeah, I'm a break that promise. And she kinda she's kinda like into that. And it's like responsibility, Peter. And she dies for it. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that's not as much of a trope. It feels a little that feels less gross to me. Because we've seen the like chemistry they have and the potential for that relationship like Yeah it's it's not it's also like it's it's not like she was dating another dude. But you know that was which is kind of a a dick move to do as the dad. But you know I kinda get it. I I can see it from all perspectives. It's like with my dying wish I'm gonna make sure y'all two don't go together no more. Stop it. Yeah, well I I I think the whole point is that like his his priority as he's dying is only about if his daughter is safe. And in his mind in that moment, like, this is a good guy, but she will be in danger if she goes anywhere near you. So like you need to keep her safe by staying away from her. And I think that's something that like had he gotten to know Peter better, had he had more time to do that, he may not have made that decision. But I guarantee you that is absolutely a decision that Captain Stacy as a character would have made and that's why he pushed it on Peter. You know? And I think honestly The way they do it in those movies is okay because it's not like they just have them get back together at the end of that movie and then they're just together in Amazing Spider Man two. They follow up on that in a really interesting way, I think, in that like they break up very early on and then they're kind of trying to do the friends thing, but the feelings are still there. Like that I feel like is a very relatable thing and is something a lot of people try to do. And I think it is difficult for everybody. Yeah. But I think it's very it's a very difficult thing for everybody, and I think they capture it really well in that in that movie. And I think that's also why Amazing Spider-Man 2 does a really good job with you know, sort of the chaos of trying to balance all those things. You know, he wants to be with her, but he can't because he made a promise and he's also got all these other responsibilities and she is in danger. Like it it works it works mostly, I think. It's just the inconsistency in the plot. I should have been able to see that she was cooked. As soon as he said, I'm gonna follow you to Oxford. Yeah, or wherever you go. I was like I think everybody knew. I think everybody knew I didn't I I didn't know I didn't have any context from the comics going on fifteen years. ⁓ okay. Yeah, yeah. Call me call me a LARP or fraud, whatever, but I didn't I didn't like grow up reading Spider Man comics. I was grew up on Raimi, unfortunately. Okay. That's all I have. Yeah, see I I I did know I did know that she dies in the in the comic. So it's like spoilers for the comics, but yeah, I I did know that she dies, so I was like, Yeah, I think every fan every long time fan was like, Yeah, she's gonna die in this movie. ⁓ and she also didn't die in the Raimi trilogy. I think that's also what skewed my thing. That's true. That's true. She's only in one movie though, she's not as important ⁓ in that one. ⁓ but Evan, I want to jump back to a point that you were making before where you were saying how the whole thing with people saying they wouldn't have swung her home is like antithetical to the character. I completely agree. And that's actually a point I wanted to make in this too, is that like they do a good job of emphasizing here that the reason he does things is kind of just because it's the right thing. He's got a set of core values that he follows, and it doesn't make him rigid. It just means that like as hard as it is for him, he's gonna do the right thing, even if it hurts him. He has a speech about it. in his in it it's in his letter thing where he's like sometimes spider mask is the hard thing even if it breaks Peter Parker's heart. That is the core of Spider-Man. To sacrifice. Yeah. So we can actually jump into Evan's topic then because yeah that that that's something I agree with. Like Spider-Man is sacrifice in a lot of ways. Yeah. I don't remember what it was that clued me into that. So that is my topic is Spider-Man and sacrifice. And this is part of it, what we've been talking about. I wanna look at what this movie adds to the conversation and how it bounces off of what other takes on this character have had. My mom hasn't seen this movie, but I was talking to her about it a couple weeks ago, because she like listened to some podcast that mentioned it. And I was talking to her about how I feel like both Spider-Man media like Spider-Man ethos, I guess broadly, and Catholic doctrine Are kind of similar in their approaches to selflessness. Like both of them kind of present this idea that if you can give of yourself or do something good for someone, you should do that. Simple enough to get on board with, but in practice, I don't think it's that simple. And part of being selfless is taking care of yourself. But there's not a lot of guidance for how to strike that balance. I find that's very much true in Catholicism. This movie is kind of Trying to show us at least a version of that balance. Like to keep on the Catholicism thing just for one more minute. I don't know if you grew up with this idea, Angel, but I know at least at some point there's like a saying, I guess, in Catholic circles that you're meant to give of your time, your talent, and your treasure. Like those are the ways that you give back. So In context of Spider-Man, he's always broke. He doesn't have treasure, like resources or monetary value to give. He does have quite a bit of talent. And what we're often seeing him negotiate is how he spends his time. I feel like most of the media that I've seen with Spider-Man, it typically has a pretty strong one to one of like if he feeds the Peter side of his life, the Spider Man side suffers, and vice versa. Usually we see the reverse where he's spending so much more time as Spider-Man, the Peter side is suffering. And this movie I think is kind of like, well, what if he goes a hundred percent Spider-Man and zero percent speed zero percent Peter? Speeder. Yeah. Speeder. Sorry, my tongue got tripped up a little there. But it's showing that that is not sustainable. Narratively, I think you need to have Peter and Miles struggle. I think that's important Important to just have conflict in a story. But the past few Spider-Man movies and the Insomniac games too, I think have been interrogating like where is that balance? They present that as the theme in the most recent game, The Insomniac Spider-Man 2. And May says, like, balance is a process, not a destination. And despite some of the other messy things in that, I feel like it does. I I think most of the most recent Spider-Man stories have been dealing with that. This movie has a take on it. I think the Spider-Verses also have a take on it. And it's also interesting in a world where Spider Man is not the only hero because most of them he's not at this point. There's one other thing I wanted to go into with this. I'm blanking on it. Spider Man's a Catholic No, but I think there's similarities. There's just one moment in the Superman movie from last year that I've found kind of sticking in my head. It's a really small moment, but I think Superman's in his apartment and there's like a big jellyfish thing outside, and he kind of says to Lois, like, ⁓ they got that. ⁓ yeah. Like the rest of the Justice gang. And I find that to be just kind of an interesting moment because I I don't think we've ever had a Spider Man moment. like that. Like he never has anyone else who can just handle it. We've never had a Superman moment like that either. Like I feel like it's it's very common for them to just be like, well, I'm the one that needs to handle everything. And I think that's what this movie is talking about. Is he does so much, but I think that to back up your point, I think the the conversation this movie's trying to have, ⁓ because I I see what you're saying about the whole time, talent, treasure thing. I didn't grow up with that exact saying, but I think I grew up with This idea that like sacrifice is either 100% or zero percent. You know, like where you like the best thing that you can do is give all of yourself to all of this with to everyone else without really taking the time to build up and figure out who you are. And I think that's sort of what Peter is doing here. I think the reason he's doing it is also something that's very relatable. It's something that I've I've dealt with a lot personally, is like feeling this idea that like the way to cope with loneliness is to throw yourself into whatever people value you for, which is like helping other people or like, you know, sometimes it's whatever job you're doing. The way that they bring that home here is in that Aunt May scene where she's talking to him and Gene, she's like, the people that love you love you because you're you. I think that's something that everyone kind of has to learn. And I mean it's something I'm still learning. I think a lot of us are still learning that like Your value is not determined by everything that you do for other people. Part of being a person is also taking the time to figure out who you are and to take care of you because eventually, like, you're gonna get to an endpoint where you're not gonna r understand what you want or what you need because all you've ever done is do everything for everybody else. You know, that doesn't mean being like middle school or high school couples grow grow up together. Usually when they don't know each other outside of being in a relationship together. They don't know themselves like they know themselves. Sorry. I think that's a really good comparison. Is like when you're in a when you're in a relationship for a long time, you start to define yourself by that relationship, especially when you start off really young, as opposed to figuring out who you are and what you want by yourself, because you're living in a sense for another person or another group of people. And I think that's something that like it's a hard thing to balance and figure out. You really do need to grow up with a healthy s like learning a healthy sense of that and learning that, like Aunt May said in the gate, it is a process. Like it's not ever going to be, you're not going to be balanced all the time. And seeing it as like, well, there's going to be a perfect point that I get to where I'm good and everything around me is good and I don't have to worry anymore. Like, no, it's always going to be something that you have to work on. And I think that The rigid sense of like either 100% sacrifice or no sacrifice is kind of something that like not everybody understands is a problem when it's happening. They're either fully concerned. I feel like a lot of times they can be fully concerned with themselves, or they're too concerned with everyone else and what everyone else needs, and they don't learn who they are. You know, and I think Peter. learns that over the course of the film. And it's good because he's also able to help Gene learn that too and sort of bring her back from the brink of whatever she's doing. To add to that a bit in a couple of ways, this is more speaking from my own experience than anything else, but like I I find that like the times that I have hurt people the most are when I am not dealing with like my own shit well enough. And like it's exploding out onto other people. There's a couple images in inception that I think are very good at expressing that. ⁓ but I think there are some here as well. Like in its best form, I feel like the Venom symbiote kind of symbolizes that, where ⁓ especially th they get a little clunky with it in the second game, but when Peter's like, this makes me a better Spider-Man. It's again like what are you sacrificing in yourself to maybe live out a virtue that you genuinely believe in, but these other things are getting in your way. And I I know that like that's gotten tricky for me too, where I'm like, I can kind of say that I'm doing this selflessly, but actually there's this other insecurity that's really fueling it and is making me not as good at doing that, like being Giving in whatever way I want to. I I think this is at least speaking to that somewhat. But also like isolating yourself, I think can easily feel like it's an act of generosity because then you're not hurting anyone. But then you do end up hurting yourself and that eventually will spill out and hurt other people. I think this is like the way that this story goes about it, the specific Spider-Man story. Is pretty good. I I think it feels like it comes from a real place. And I like that they don't have to rely on the Venom Symbiote where it's something external. They have the webs grow from within him, they have this like mutation happen from within. It's very clearly self-inflicted. That's why I just don't really mess with the Venom Symbiote very well as a narrative device. Because I feel like it almost lets Peter off the hook in every case and In a lot ways, They don't always write it well. I think that's the problem. Is like what the like sometimes they will write it as kind of like a scapegoat for his behavior. I think a good way to write them in a CBO, personally, would be to have it be clear that like all of these it's bringing forth issues and anger and ⁓ resentment that he already had. And like once it's gone, I think that they are like, ⁓ it's gone, it's over now as opposed to just being like, No, all those things are still lingering, he's still has the potential to do these things and hurt people this way. He's just held it back for so long and then he finally had an excuse not to. ⁓ they don't always emphasize that when they write the Venom symbio. I think they do it here though. I think you're right. I think making it sort of an internal thing, like what I think you're saying is like he's emphasizing and correct me if I'm wrong, it's sort of this idea of like the the talent part of it where it's like the the technical parts of Spider Man where he's stronger, he's faster, he is technically, he could be more efficient at saving people, but he's losing the emotionality that is really what makes Spider Man important is like the fact that he cares so much about people and will take the time to, like in Garfield Spider Man, save a kid from bullies, with the Venom symbiote or with this arachnid thing going on, he wouldn't necessarily do that 'cause his mind would just be on like getting the task done. And I think Peter is valuing that practicality of it. Practicality might not be the right word, but like that Technical, ⁓ this is better, over the emotional side. Like, that's what he's sacrificing is the emotional part. That's another thing that the Garfields give us. I think I was kind of only just realizing this earlier in the conversation, but like think about when Andrew Garfield is being Spider-Man and even the few moments before, like, in Garfield's performance, you kind of see how he's energized by helping people, whether it's standing up to Flash or like even It's a little bit of a cheesy moment, but that small moment where he like corrects the like he picks up the paint in the gym for the one nerdy girl and then goes and dunks on Flash, like he's being a little bit of a dick in that moment, but you see how it energizes him and and in those later scenes too, once he's Spider-Man, like throughout all the flaws of those movies, I think there's a joy that he finds in being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. And I I think Miles kind of has this too in The Spider-Verses. Like, you can tell he's he's loving his job as he's doing it. He's loving being this like bright figure of hope to people. And I feel like it there is something to the fact that Tom Holland doesn't really give that energy in this movie. I think maybe he does in the earlier ones, but we haven't seen him in that friendly neighborhood role very much. And here we kind of do, but he's not really the friendly Spider Man. He's the I gotta do my Door Dash and get to the next one kind of Spider Man. Yeah, he he's super like, I'm gonna get every single thing done like as fast as possible. And he does. He does really well. But even ⁓ d d the wolf is like, do you have friends? Do you sleep? Do you ⁓ go to the bathroom? Do you do anything Besides be Spider Man, like you need to take care of yourself and take a break, which is I think kind of the point. And like eventually he does start to lose it. I mean, he almost kills a cop because he is going way too hard on ⁓ Scorpion because his mind has gone fully to I gotta get the job done. Which he shouldn't have been driving there at that moment. I think the energy that we see from him though, like where he seems like he's himself the most is the couple scenes where he hangs out with Ned in this movie. Like I think in the performance it comes out there. And I wonder if that's almost another take that Yeah, the real love story of the movie. Yeah. I wonder if that's a take that they can continue with where I don't know, just to like put it into maybe a real world parallel, like some people believe in the idea that if you do what you love for work, you never work a day in your life. And I feel like that's more of the energy that previous Spider-Mans have had. I think it's also viable to do your job to pay your bills, and then you kind of live for this other thing in your life, whether that's an activity or your family or your friends. And maybe that's who Tom Holland Spider-Man is. Maybe being Spider Man is his job, but he really lives to hang out with his friends. I think that's kind of who he's been up to this point. I think that's that's what makes Spider-Man because Spider-Man is just that. He i it's him trying to figure that out, like, is it selfish of me to decide to do something with my friends or my family when all these people need me, when the city relies on me? And that actually brings up a point too that I I wanted to bring up about this movie was like it it's this movie with him and Ned actually does something I've been wanting to move all movies to do for years, which is strongly emphasize the importance of male friendships because I think that having somebody that you're close having a a strong friend that you're close with that you can be vulnerable with is such an important thing that I think so many people are not taught is important. Like especially men like on the emotional side of things, like you're taught to like hold a lot of stuff back. Even now with you know how much progress we've made with that like it's still taught to a lot of people and movies even like I think sometimes they can be afraid to write guys that are just they just wanna spend time together. They wanna have things in common. They wanna do thing they they they wanna like be vulnerable with each other. And this movie is like not afraid of that. That's kind of what brings Peter back to himself near the end of the movie is the fact that like he's got this thing. And that's what at the end it's not him getting the girl, it's him finally reconnecting with his friend that whether it's because of a magic spell or not, he pushed away for so long because he thought his job was to take all of this emotional burden himself on himself and just be Spider-Man for the good of everybody else when in reality he'll be better at this if he has somebody that he can talk to and rely on. And I'm hoping Spider-Man five a lot of the emphasis is on him, you know, reconnecting with Ned and using Ned as a source of support. And doing that mutually, because that's important. Well and the Spider-Verses also, I think, have been negotiating this a bit. And No Way Home, where we have started in the past few years to see what does Spider-Man look like with a more built-out support system. But then both of those movies, like Into the Spider-Verse and No Way Home, present our main character, Spider-Man, with other Spider people to, you know, kind of help guide them and give them support in a way that nobody else can. But then because of multiverse shenanigans, they have to be taken away. And at the start of the next movie, Across the Spider-Verse and Brand New Day, they're both like, well, now I'm committing really hard to being Spider-Man, and I basically have no friends. Like Miles and Across the Spider-Ver, we don't even really see what his dynamic with Ganke is. Apparently, they hang out a bit. Apparently, Ganke knows that he's Spider-Man. We don't see much else of it. And Across the Spider-Verse brings up this really interesting meta question that I I can't wait for it to answer. Which is like, does the good Spider-Man does have to come at the cost of something in his life or their life? Because we've got a lot of different genders of spider people now, and mammal identities, animal identities. It's always coming at the cost of something. They have that whole conversation about canon events in that movie, and they don't really have a canon event for like Spider-Man can't have friends, but it's been there enough that it might as well be one. And Yeah, it feels like a like a something at least something that Spider-Man thinks has to happen. Or a spider person. That they emphasize that with Gwen in her opening monologue in Across the Spider-Verse is like she thinks that she also has to sacrifice everybody. But they do better when they Her and Miles finally come together and like find somebody who understands them and they form a friendship, which may have some romantic undertones, but I think that's also important is like it is a friendship. And it's just a relationship where they really understand ⁓ and want to be around each other just because they know each other so well through this one thing that nobody else can really understand, you know? And even think of it as a real world parallel in some ways, like this isn't the greatest movie. But Ralph breaks the internet, kind of does a good job of like finding a balance with this, where, you know, to bring it back into a Spider-Man example, you have the Spider people in the Spider-Verse movies, and they connect with each other briefly when they meet. Then they go back to their home worlds and like Gwen quits her band. Miles doesn't really have any friends in his world, like What if these are like kind of a real world parallel to that is like, what if your only or your best friends are internet friends? That's not great. Like, and I think that's sort of the dynamic that they are playing with a bit. And we'll see how things go. Like, across the Spider-Verse almost says, like, well, let's actually make a town with our internet friends. I don't think they're doing that hard of a parallel. I should maybe drop this. Before it starts falling apart. I get what you're saying. I I wonder what Beyond the Spider-Verse is going to do with like, can these spider people stay in each other's lives? Because it's clearly very good for them. Like, there's such a catharsis for everyone in that first Spider-Verse movie. Like, but then we also kind of see them take it back to their homeworlds where Peter B. Parker Is like pretty much burnt out in his homeworld at the beginning of that movie. And then by the end of it, he's got the like optimism and the energy and the courage to go try to restart himself and like become a better Spider-Man. And then he's a dad by the next movie. Like that, I feel like is an important part of this kind of meta-conversation, is that. He kind of found his balance, finally. I mean, it took him till his forties, but maybe that's a possibility for these other younger spider people to find as well. And I I really can't wait to see what they do with that. That does two things actually, because that, like you said, it shows that there is no right time, there is no timeline. It took him until his forties to figure that out. And then when he did, when he allowed himself to get there, it was better for him in the long run, but it didn't have to happen when he was, you know, twenty-five. You don't have to have everything figured out that early. And they emphasize it as part of his personal life and not his Spider-Man life. Like we don't see anything about him being Spider-Man in his own world in that movie. ⁓ I guess that's fair for all we know he's not. Yeah. I mean he's got the suit and everything. He does the Spider Ver he does like the Spider ⁓ verse stuff with like the Spider People Club, but he As far as he may not even be Spider-Man anymore. He might just be focusing on like his personal life and like taking care of the people that he loves. Like he did his time, he did his job, and now he's allowed, he's finally allowed himself to have a personal life and realize that's not selfish. You can still do things for other people and live. Yeah. I I think the insomnia games are almost leaving their Peter in that place too, where by the end of the story of that game, like you're still playing as both of them because video games. But he kind of hands off the mantle to Miles, like, hey, you're kind of gonna be like the primary guy now. Yeah. I feel like that's kind of where they leave things in that. Again, where does that come in with the like balance of all these things? I I am really interested to see where it goes because this is a character that we've had a lot of versions of. And It's one that I care about, and I think that everyone creating these stories cares about. Yeah, this could be like a continuous conversation, but we don't have to. Well, we're gonna get beyond the Spider-Verse, they're saying, in a few months here. ⁓ who knows if that'll actually happen, but I hope to God it does. I do too, but I want it to be good, and I I need that movie to be good. Same. They can take it can come out when I'm thirty five or fifty five, I don't know if I want to wait that long. But it's gotta be good. I hope it can be. Anyway, thank you guys for listening. I don't know what our next episode is gonna be, but we'll have stuff coming soon. If you're not already watching us on YouTube, follow us on YouTube. We have the video essay channel. ⁓ I'm gonna be making a video about Black Panther coming out pretty soon, and I have other stuff in the works. We have our Patreon with bonus episodes, that's one dollar a month. You can follow us on Instagram, Blue Sky, and TikTok. at INT analysis pod. I'm on Instagram blue sky and letterboxed at ev underscore west. Where are you guys? I'm on Instagram at Jelani T. Kelly Actors Access, same thing if you want to hire me ⁓ for your short film or film future film or T V show, limited series, whatever. Yep. And ⁓ I'm on Instagram at angelmichelle.film. I'm on ⁓ letterboxed at Serenity Cinema. And I actually think for this movie I have a longer review up if you guys want to check that out. ⁓ where I get into some points I may not have been able to get to here. Yeah, check those out. All right. Thanks for listening. We'll see you guys next time. Bye bye.