Evan Kinnear: The all-in All-INX Pod is brought to by JB Dental Labs. The elite lab, trusted by full-arch surgeons, ⁓ prosthodontists, and digital forward practices ⁓ internationally. JB specializes in precision full-arch zirconia, photogrammetry workflows, and fast turnaround times that don't sacrifice quality. ⁓ JB delivers a truly digital workflow powered their... Adam Hogan: Thanks for joining me here on the all in all on next pod. I'm Dr. Adam Hogan in my casual Friday mode. As you can see, ⁓ just got back from the pool at the house as a matter of fact, and I understand now you're at your house too. Is that right? Naiara: ⁓ that's so nice. I am at my home office again, casual Friday catching up. My kids are home from summer break, so that's life for me. Evan Kinnear: online portal for easy case uploads, real-time tracking, and fast streamlined communication. Adam Hogan: You look awesome. You look like you're anything but casual right now. You look like a million bucks. Thanks for joining us. There is going to be credit for a visual here cause on YouTube. So I appreciate you coming looking all professional like you are. ⁓ I should strive to be more like you. So this is going to be a great episode. ⁓ I want to talk about, ⁓ why, ⁓ great implant practices might lose patients before they ever even walk through the door. Naiara: Thank you. Thank you. ⁓ no, you look great. Adam Hogan: and I wanna talk about the psychology of case acceptance, you know? And I know doctors out there wonder, you know, what happens between marketing leads and patients actually sitting in your consultation room? You know, where are they? So here I have a person, the person who knows what your patients are thinking before they even meet the doctor. lives in the space between marketing and the consultation. Is that right, Nye? Yeah. Naiara: That's perfectly, yeah, 100 % right. Adam Hogan: I think that's where millions of dollars are either won or lost. What is the biggest mistake implant practices make before the patient ever walks through the Evan Kinnear: If you're looking for a lab that understands immediate load, passive fit, and the demands of modern all-on-x dentistry, then JB Dental Lab is redefining what a full arch parter can be. Learn more at JBDentalLab.com. ⁓ Tell them that the all-in all-on-x pod sent you. Naiara: Ooh, that's such a good one. I would say the number one mistake would be not understanding how to add value in phone calls. This is something that I hear every single day where the lead call specialist, the setter, whatever we wanna call them nowadays. Adds value in the regard of Dr. Hovind has, you know, over 20 years of experience. The office is friendly. We treat everybody like family. These are things that people nowadays hear not just at your office, but everywhere, right? Like they listen to a YouTube video and they understand that that is how in sales you give value. But the really interesting thing is that is actually not where value lives. Value lives in the motivator of why they're even calling. So value is not even, it doesn't even live in dentistry. It lives in them not being able to chew for 12 years. Value lives in they have a wedding coming up and they want to be able to smile. That's really where, you know, I call it the house of value. Actually lives, that's where we actually entertain the value adding of the phone call. Adam Hogan: Right. I like that. Naiara: So that, yeah. Adam Hogan: I love it. Value, So I wanna give everyone an appropriate introduction for you, all right? You are Nyra Nye-Wierman. You are a neuroscience-based, all-on-excel strategist known for challenging the traditional way dentistry approaches patient communication and case acceptance. Instead of teaching scripts, Nye focuses on ⁓ the psychology behind human decision making. Helping all OnX teams understand how emotion, trust, shame, certainty, nervous system responses influence whether a patient moves forward with treatment. You coach full-arch teams on lead conversion, treatment acceptance, patient experience, emotional communication, while also leading the development of a specialized AOX SETR department designed to create stronger patient connections from the very first interaction. You are the creator of the NeuroGuided Sales Cycle trademark. A modern communication framework built around behavioral psychology, emotional safety, and influence in high ticket dentistry. So before we get back into value and creating value on the phone, because that was just a teaser for our episode, what is a modern communication framework of the neuro-guided sales cycle? Tell me about Naiara: Yeah, so this is something that I've learned over the years over a decade of being treatment coordinator lead call specialist in the office and you know where I went to a lot of training that pertained to a lot of information and human psychology back then it no longer pertains to it now most specialists, most specially after COVID. So the way that we humans are wired through technology, through AI, through social media and things like that, have, and we are, we have so much information at our fingertips to where before you had to do two days of research, now you have two minutes and chat GBT will give it to you. And it will tell you a lot more than probably that lead call specialist knows about all in fours and how it pertains to your specific case. So. We really, and this is where I really focused on, I really had to rethink sales whenever I came to all-in-fours in dentistry because in a world where I didn't have to educate as much, mean, the doctors there to diagnose, that's what the doctors is the hero. I had to really entertain getting into the human mind and learn that cognitive behavior. in college, my background is also marketing and psychology. So I kind of brought them both together. And I said, you know, how do I influence a change of belief cycle? So a lot in full arch, they believe that there is no hope for them. They are regretful, they're filled with shame and trauma and things like that. So how do we grab that? These are psychology aspects and understanding trauma. And how do we shift that to influence instead of having these hardcore sales tactics? And that's really where the neuroguided sales cycle really came from. Where before we used to, you know, start the treatment, introduce ourselves, tell them what's all about education. then at the very end, barriers came, right, in the consult room, and then we would just cross our fingers and hope we could get through every single barrier. Now, where it's shifted to the neuro-guided cells is we're establishing that psychological safety, so the trust is built from the very beginning. And after that, there's the storytelling that needs to happen. And then that is really where we focus on the barriers. After that, we go into showing what the Adam Hogan: All Right. Right. Naiara: is going to look like with these types of treatments and how it's going to benefit them based on their why, their motivator. And then at the end, it's not really crossing your fingers. It's actually a decision alignment because instead of the barriers being at the end, the barriers are actually established at the very beginning by the time that we establish the trust. So we have a whole conversation to really talk about and add value around the barriers that really shifts the perspective in psychology in a belief cycle way in psychology to where this patient now sees the value that this is going to have for their life. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so wonderful. ⁓ the emotional trigger, the psychology of this is really what, how do they feel about themselves, right? It's getting into the empathy and the compassion for what makes this person, why are they calling you right now? Is that where you're going with this? Is that where you mean by that? Naiara: Yeah, absolutely. Whether it's calling or they're actually in the treatment room, however that looks like, it works in both aspects of it. This person called, I mean, you know this, right? All in for it, it's years and years and years of neglect or maybe trauma or dealing with this. They didn't call today for no reason. There's something going on in their life. Maybe they looked in the mirror and they hated the way that they smiled or they went to a restaurant and everybody around them was eating steak and they couldn't chew anything or maybe they choked on something which I'm sure you hear as well all the time. But that's the trigger. There's a trigger point there and we just have to find through the conversation even in the lead call what that trigger is to add value to it. Adam Hogan: Yeah. So you're speaking my language, I fully agree with this. You know, on my consultation report form, just one page, when the lifestyle team member comes and sees me and they say, I've got someone in the room, it says right at the top of the page, what's their trigger? What's their motivator? So I think we're talking the same language, no? Right. And we train our people that when people call, you've got to get that motivator out in the front. So, but let's break this down because this is the hardest thing for... Naiara: Yes, ⁓ yeah. Adam Hogan: salespeople to do and for those people on the phone. Because phone rings, ring, ring, ring, how much does it cost? Okay, how much does it cost, right? Or some obscure question, right? Do you take insurance? And how do you get your salesperson to flip that and get just a window to get into these emotional psychological triggers? Naiara: ⁓ great point. Yeah, great, great point. Well, first of all, it's trading them. And this is where trading, I really think that it's beneficial and understanding the psychology aspect of it. Because a lot of them, we want to be able to get through that barrier. a lot of, know, whether it's a lead call coordinator, and really, that's who I'm talking about right now is the lead call coordinator. They want to be able to, you know, technically answer, maybe dodge the question, which... makes it worse, right? Like if we're not answering the question, that trust is gone, right? So let's not do that. But what I really teach them is there's a time and a place for everything, including the answer for that question. That answer right now is so premature because they haven't even gotten a CBCT. They haven't even gotten diagnosed. So what am I quoting? Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Naiara: I'm not quoting anything right now because I don't know what they're, they don't even know what they're looking for, right? So that answer is so premature. The way that I used to go about that answer is one, acknowledging that this is a very important answer because that's how our brain feels safe. Financial security is part of the brain saying we're safe, regulate the nervous system and all that fun stuff. So that's where that question's coming from. And just saying, absolutely, I get so Adam Hogan: Right. Right. Naiara: many patients asking this question. I get so many people asking this question. That's a great question to ask. ⁓ Let's go ahead and schedule a consultation for you to come in. That's really whenever you're going to get your answer. Is once we get that CBZT, once we get that diagnosis, because the last thing I'd like to do in this phone call is guess and give you inaccurate information. That's for you. That's, you know, you're establishing authority. You're establishing expertise. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right. Naiara: You're establishing confidence too, but you're also normalizing the question because a lot of people do feel a little bit of shy or even it is an uncomfortable question to even ask for most people as much as it comes up. your second one for insurance, I mean, I used to keep it as simple as absolutely once you come into the consultation, we'll see how insurance plays a role. Could insurance cover? Adam Hogan: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Naiara: Extractions maybe? Absolutely. It could, maybe one or two. Is insurance going to cover the all-in-four? Absolutely not. But we don't even know if they're a candidate for all-in-fours yet. Therefore, that answer is still premature at this point. Adam Hogan: Right. Yeah, yeah, I can see like I've been doing this for a lot of years and I see the whole dialogue, the script going through my head. looks like, you know, we've kind of trained under the same people or had the same experiences. So I get that, you know, when what people so you're going into a sales team and you're coaching them. And I think you have all the right answers. Right. Can you tell right from the get go if these people that have been put in front of you are going to be able to get it and convey it? mean, How long does it take you to understand if you're talking to the right people, if they're in the right seats, or how long does it take to train the right people? Naiara: Yeah, I always say within the first coaching session, I usually know and it depends how they interact with coaching. And there's really two types of people. There is somebody who wants to adapt and then there's another person who wants to resist. And that's really what I'm looking for. If there's that resistance, it doesn't matter how much psychology I teach them. They're going to resist the coaching. And that is where I lead on leadership, whether that's doctor owner or if there is a manager who manages under and provides leadership to that person. That's where I lean on them like, hey, I'm feeling that this person's resisting coaching. I need your help. I need your help trying to get them to see this. ⁓ But the number one thing is I've sat in those seats. I've been that person, I was that treatment coordinator, I was that lead call specialist. So to me, I start with being able to relate to them. You know, we're not doing this because you suck. I'm doing this because you need to be able to grow. We need to be able to adapt on how the human mind thinks nowadays, not even five years before. Adam Hogan: you Naiara: So this is all brand new information for you, but I can tell you it works because I did it and I've gotten amazing, amazing results from it. So one, it's how you structure it as a cogent, two, is that person going to be resistant versus adaptive? And then I usually give everybody about 90 days until they feel confident to start growing and starting getting those expert elite skills of that lead call. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Sure, and I fully get that. You've got people who are resistant and people who are accepting some change. And that goes in any facet of a business, right? Whether you be clinical or technical or administrative or sales or whether you're in a totally different industry altogether, people that aren't coachable, we don't really have a space for them. It doesn't really matter. I get it. But what about those people that want to be coached, but they might just not have the innate skills for it? How do you identify Naiara: Mm-hmm. Adam Hogan: good salespeople. Where do you find them? Naiara: Yeah, the number one thing that I look for, and it's funny enough, it's them being curious. The best salespeople are curious people because the number one way to be an amazing, and I structure from a great salesperson, whether it lead call specialist or treatment coordinator, to an elite one, it's a very curious one. The reason for that is because they start asking a lot of questions in the call or in the treatment room. The more questions that you're able to ask, the more curious you become about their story, about their motivator, about their trigger. The better that is because we get even more information that's going to set us up for success. We can add even more value ⁓ to the all-in-fours because we get so much more of a juicier story. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So ⁓ have you had any luck, you know, finding people to hire for dental offices to work in sales teams? you had any luck in different industries kind of picking out of other areas? Naiara: Yeah, I've worked in different industries too. So I've seen it through. I worked with, you know, clinics that do IVF, which is actually a very similar sales cycle on Fork, as it's emotional, as well as plastic surgery offices who do ⁓ breast reconstructions, for example. Again, very similar as on Fork too, to very emotional trauma driven sales cycles that insurance does not cover. So very similar. Number one thing is there is a level of empathy that this person has to have and how I usually describe this person is, know, think of somebody in your team that if I just said, my cat is really sick, they would literally hold their chest and say, ⁓ my goodness, I'm so sorry to hear that. Like, how is your cat? How long? Tell me more. Like, that person is the person that should be sitting in the seat whenever it comes to, you know, all in four cases and things like that. Because there needs to be a level of emotional connection there that if you're not that empathic person, that's okay. You just don't fit into that seat. That's really hard to teach. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, as I hear you say, I agree. know, those people that love other people that can feel their pain and their sorrow, that can feel also their exuberance and their happiness when they get done. But the people that really connect emotionally, 100 % for sure, are good salespeople. And when you said ask questions, what I heard was listening. Because I'm always, when I get a new salesperson, I hear them talk to me. talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk and they're giving away information and they're probably going down a rabbit hole they don't need to go down and they're losing the patient because I tell them people want to people want to talk about themselves they want to tell their story and if you're if you are talking you're losing them you're they're gone right is that way kind of where you're going with that Naiara: Absolutely, and I use this example all the time now. I had an amazing training session that really like started shifting the way that this team worked. you know, I played a call and I said, tell me what you hear. And this patient says, there's nothing wrong with me, I just can't chew with my dentures. And I replayed that moment four times. I'm like, tell me what you hear. They're like, that she has dentures. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, what do you hear? It's like she normalized not being able to chew with her dentures. We're not listening. As humans, have really like stopped using our listening ear so much because we want to be able to articulate a lot more. To where in sales, the best salespeople are also listeners. The person that is able to hear the things that they're not saying as well, which is, hey, what I actually heard from that little sentence right there is, hey I can't chew, I have dentures, I hate my dentures, I want to be able to chew, but I've normalized the fact that I can't chew with my dentures so I don't see anything wrong with it. That's what I heard. Adam Hogan: Right. Yeah, why are we normalizing dentures? I swear I say this all the time. Like we teach dentures in dental school, I guess it's a necessity and we offer dentures to patients out of a necessity. I get that there is a economic group of, socioeconomic group people that maybe that's the best they can have, but why do we normalize it? Like, ⁓ they can have a denture. Why does the VA, the Veterans Administration, why do they not approve dental implants in our local area? Because they can have a denture. Naiara: ⁓ Adam Hogan: It's that is so subhuman. It's it's not it's a it's like walking around on a it's like, ⁓ yeah, they don't need a ⁓ prosthetic leg. They can just walk around on crutches or in a wheelchair forever. Right. Same thing. Right. Yeah. I mean, I've been trying to have conversations with my local VA for a while ⁓ because they get the prosthetic leg. You know, they they get that. Naiara: Yeah. Right, so sad. Right, right. Well, and this is what it is, right? It's a prosthetic. It's exact. It's a prosthesis, technically, but it's a prosthetic to, you know, their natural teeth where they can be able to function correctly, to be able to do what I call a basic human, you know, ⁓ you know, just chewing by itself, you should be able to go to restaurant and not stress about what's in the menu. You should be able just to chew. So I absolutely agree with you. Adam Hogan: Yeah. It's a it's it's an inalienable right. think the founding fathers probably had it in their first draft and it probably got struck because of word count. But it said life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness with teeth. But I think that they lost the with teeth because, know, they needed to condense that to three pages ⁓ like so many of my articles that I submit. That leaves there. We need to submit the 20 pages and condense it into 10 ⁓ anyway. If you look it up, if you go back and read in history, I'm sure the words with teeth were in the. Naiara: Yeah. There we go. I love it. ⁓ I'm a full believer in it, absolutely. Adam Hogan: Declaration. All right, so you're trading your team. Can you think of things that absolutely kill a call? Like just destroy a call? So we already established, you know, not finding empathy or not finding their triggers, right? Is there anything else that just absolutely a call? We decided talking too much as well. What else just kills a call? ⁓ A potential lead. Naiara: Mm-hmm. Yeah, a no is what I always say. A no kills the call. I hate hearing the word no. I don't know about you, like from anybody. Adam Hogan: Yes. I hate it. I hate it. Naiara: Anybody. Like, the word no, I actually joke because the word no does not exist in my vocabulary. There's always a way that I can make this happen. So, and that's probably where, you know, most of the studies through decades came from. So same thing with the person on the other end. They hate hearing what you cannot do for them. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right? Naiara: And I hear this all the time, ⁓ I can't put you in here. ⁓ I can't give you the price. ⁓ I can't tell you if insurance is going to cover this or not. ⁓ I can't, I can't, I can't. That's all I hear all the time and I'm like, well, what can we do at this point, right? So, and whenever patients hear this, I mean, they're already getting the illusion that you can't help them. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. Yeah. Right. Naiara: And they haven't even visited your office yet. That's the sad part of it is, you know, they just hear this from the call, which is why the call is so important, is to be able to switch the, what I call it, to a positive verbiage style, which is what can you do for them? So if Monday at 2 p.m. it's not gonna work, instead of saying I can't, I don't have that available for you, it's like, you know what? Mondays, but however I do have Tuesday, I have 4 p.m. available for you. Adam Hogan: Right, yeah. Yeah, I can't do Tuesday at three because the doctor is actually changing someone's life with this and making them have a whole better life. But yeah, let's go Wednesday at one o'clock or three. What's better for you? Yeah. And the biggest no I hate here and when I walk by that room over here on the other side of me over here and I hear them on the phone and they go and all I can hear is no, we don't take anthem dental. And I'm like. Naiara: Now we're finding solutions, right? Exactly. Adam Hogan: We've been coached on this a million times, right? Because we are a fee for service office, but that doesn't mean we're not gonna file your insurance. And that doesn't mean that we're not gonna help you with your insurance. We're gonna help file it, and we're gonna get you everything out of it that's possible. So we're not lying when we say, anthem dental won't be a problem. Okay, what's your next question? Right? Naiara: Mm-hmm. app. Absolutely, and I come from a fee-for-service office myself, and this is one of the main points. I work for a big DSO, and then I went to private practice, fee-for-service, specialize in and all in fours and all that fun stuff. And one of the main things is, know, humans know what humans know. They don't work in dentistry. They're not insurance experts. They have no idea how this works. So asking insurance is a very common thing that I even ask. I have medical insurance, right? Adam Hogan: Right. Right. Naiara: So I want to make sure that my doctor takes the insurance too. Is that going to be part of my decision making? No. If I need this and I see the value, will I keep going and have I kept going with making a decision even though insurance did not cover? Absolutely. It's just a question and once we see that as just a question, our perspective of it changes so much because especially in fee-for-service offices, we're still filing to the insurance. We're still telling them what their benefits are. We're not the bad guy. Adam Hogan: Right. Right. Naiara: If their insurance company does not cover all in force, it's not my fault, don't blame me, but that's what they're gonna hear if you say, no, we do not take Anthem, for example. Adam Hogan: Right. Yeah. Yeah, you're doing them a disservice by turning them off. Because the second you say, no, we don't take them, no, we don't take them, or that we're not a participating provider. Like what, why, ⁓ yeah, we're out of network. And then you start, and then again, they start explaining what an in network versus not. And they've lost the patient, by the way. Again, if you're talking too much, you lost them. And why do we explain the ins and outs of insurance? They didn't call about insurance, they called about fixing their life, right? Naiara: Right. We're out of network. Exactly. Adam Hogan: So why are we having these conversations? And I heard it again, you know, I heard it again the other day. It drives me mad. just, yeah, we'll fix it, we'll fix it. Because the truth is, for 60 or 70 or $40,000 or even $30,000, we're gonna maximize your insurance. It doesn't matter, baby. Like, it's a... Naiara: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Even if they cover $100, that's $100 that they get to cover. That's a tank of gas nowadays, right? Like that's how I see it. Adam Hogan: Yeah, I my people a little secret out for my business seminar a little little secret out I'll say if you have a policy and it's in place ⁓ and active and it's valid and you haven't already spent the benefits if the maximum benefit on that is a thousand or fifteen hundred two thousand whatever I guarantee we're gonna get it and if we don't I'll just give it back to you I'll take it off the price so can we just forget about insurance right yeah look you like that tip Naiara: Mm-hmm. Yes! Mm-hmm, that's it. I love it, absolutely. And we used to do that too. mean, what's taking $1,000 out of a double arch? ⁓ Adam Hogan: Yeah, I mean, we know that we're gonna file the paperwork and they're gonna get it. We know if the policy is valid. So we'll promise them to, know, we'll either get it for you or we'll give it to ourselves. Right? Let's move on, right? Naiara: Mm-hmm. Yes, I love it. No, what you just said just hit the nail on the head though. I love it. Adam Hogan: Yeah, feel free to use it. ⁓ And just have to mention my institute. No, I'm just kidding. ⁓ So wait quickly, how long have you been coaching and outside of your fee for service office? A couple. Naiara: No, I will. I've been coaching for, this is my third year now that I've been in a full coaching position. Adam Hogan: Okay, wonderful. Well, I think it's great. I think we need people that have had the experience of the job to know what it's like to come in to this industry. Cause it is kind of a rather unique industry. People out there, the public, like they understand value in a heart surgeon and they understand value in a brain surgeon. They even understand value in somebody that's going to do a reputable job to fix their car or their kitchen. Why does the public think all dentists Naiara: Yes. Adam Hogan: are the same and it's so insignificant, like a prosthetic in your face, why do they think it's just, give me cheap and fast? What's the image out there in the public's mind? Naiara: Yeah, the answer of that is, is... how we've been able to present ourselves. to be honest, that's why I became so passionate about the lead call, because it's what they hear. And it's not even you. It's not even dentists. It's what that lead call specialist said on the phone, how they see it, how that treatment coordinator treated them during the consult. Very rarely, very rarely is it ever the doctor. Yet it has such an immense image on dentistry itself, which is why I'm so passionate about teaching teams. to one, make sure that the doctors that are here on dentistry is great again, right? But also, I'm also part of so many all in four groups, like Facebook community groups. And I'm seeing of what they're talking about. That's part of my research too, which is how are they interacting? What are they saying? What questions are they asking? And what are they calling certain positions? So for example, one of the main ones that I noticed is they Adam Hogan: ⁓ Right. Naiara: called treatment coordinators, the money ladies. And I was like, ⁓ right. And I see that all the time in these Facebook groups. If you start interacting with them or just being there just to watch, because that's what I do, you start seeing a lot of things. The girl on the phone, the receptionist on the phone told me that it's gonna cost this much. And I'm like, yeah, but. Adam Hogan: ⁓ my god. Yeah. Yeah. Naiara: you didn't get a diagnosis. So I see so many balls being dropped and I really had to point a finger at just us as a society, but also have four fingers pointed back at me and say, you know what, the way that I was trained was also the problem and why they think this way. It's the moment that we start connecting with them emotionally, that we start letting them know and setting the expectations of what insurance is, setting the expectations around, this is way too premature of a conversation around price right now. That's what's going to be able to change the aspect of how people see dentistry too. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right. Yep. Yeah, I really feel like, you know, it's not really, I'm not really worried about giving away the secrets, you know, at the risk of giving away the secrets. If we could get every dental office in America to do better, we would make our life easier for everybody because they call my office and they get my lifestyle coordinators and they go how much and, know, they go through the I'm going to get to that blah, blah, blah. What's bothering you? Why'd you call? You know, tell me something about you. You know what? What's motivating you? Sorry. You know, not so many words. And and they go, look, I've already called another office and they gave me a price $6,000 or $16,000. Well, did you see that office? No, I didn't. And now you're up against, your back's against the wall because the other office has already set you up for failure. By the way, they also set themselves up for failure because now they've made a promise that they probably can't fulfill. But they get these team members on the phone and these team members, they feel compelled to give an answer. They, like. Naiara: Mm-hmm. Adam Hogan: six grand, 16 grand, 26 grand, and they just blurt it out, like they know, like it's relevant. I mean, so what do you say when they say, well, I called your office across town and it's $36,000? Naiara: Yeah. I That is the best answer. That's the best statement they could have given me. Because now, and I'm gonna keep saying the word value over and over again, now, guess what? They're guessing. I am not guessing. I'm not giving a what it could be. My office, we don't work on what it could be, on on guesstimating or anything like that. We want to give you clear answers. That's what they deserve. So now I'm going to say, that's great. But to be honest, if you haven't gotten imaging or seen a doctor yet, that's just a guesstimate. And I don't want to do that on the call with you. I want you to come in and understand what this is going to look like for you. And again, it's just setting those expectations and being confident. And it takes a lot of confidence and authority to be able to do that. And that's something that I have, that's the foundational of my training too. Adam Hogan: Yeah. Sure. Yeah, so yeah, in addition to looking for an emotional salesperson, having a confident salesperson as well, that's a good listener, ⁓ definitely checks the block. ⁓ I wanna talk, I wanna move, ⁓ we've been kind of beating up the person taking the call for a little while, haven't we? That poor person. They have probably the hardest job, but also if they have, if they are, Naiara: Yes. I know. Yes, we have. Poor people. Adam Hogan: have the skills, it can be a very easy job at the same time. But I've got people that come to us that have worked here and some of them can set an appointment in like 30 seconds or three minutes and others, they take three phone calls at 10 or 30 minutes each to cultivate that relationship. Do you have an answer for that or is there a yes or right or wrong? I've seen different people find success in both methods. Naiara: Mm-hmm. Yeah, to me a successful full large call usually takes about 10 to 15 minutes. The 30 minute ones that I've noticed that are listening to a lot of calls is they don't know how to guide it. So the patient's the one who's guiding the call. So we don't want that. We should be able to condense that. Adam Hogan: Right. Naiara: About half of what it was right by just taking that leadership and guiding the call And then if it's taking 30 seconds to two minutes, that's you know, about two minutes the average for a GP call But we need to do a lot more We need to ask a lot more questions than a GP call So we need to be able to find the motivator understand the story Understand the barriers because really what we're doing in in this call is we're setting the treatment coordinator for success because we're grabbing, the lead call is the consultation, it's just the very first part of it. We're grabbing all the juicy information from me to pass it on to the treatment coordinator and doctor and say, this is their motivator, this is gonna be their barriers, this is going to be what they look forward to, they miss eating steak and things like that. And all this information needs to be used in the consult room to be able to close that case too. Adam Hogan: you Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you can't close the case till they show up. Let's talk about no shows. How do why? Why do people make appointments and no show? And how do we minimize those numbers? Naiara: Yes. The best way that I can explain it is the same way that I explain it to teams, which is, I can send you a ticket on text message and say, here's a free ticket. Or I can say, Dr. Hogan, this was given to me. I'm gonna give you this ticket. It's complimentary, there's no charge to you, but I really want you to go to this concert. Now, the day of the concert comes, you you're double booked, you're absolutely like crazy day at work, you get to your car, your car is not running, you get to your house, you just remembered you have a new roof, you're absolutely exhausted. There's going to be two scenarios. The one that I just sent a ticket and it's free, you're gonna be like, absolutely not. Right? I am exhausted, I'm not going to this concert. Adam Hogan: Right. Naiara: But then there's that second scenario to where I personally reached out to you and I said, this is a complimentary ticket. I wanted to gift it to you. And that beautiful law of reciprocity kicks in to where you did something for me, so I want to give something to you. That is what's gonna make you go to that concert that night. So this directly correlates to no shows. One, it's the verbiage that we use. It's how we propose the appointment. So, okay, have Monday at, I have an 8 a.m., a 9 a.m., a 10 a.m., 11 a.m., I have Thursday at 11 a.m., 12 a.m., like. Adam Hogan: You Naiara: If they don't show up, they're gonna be like, they're not even gonna notice. They have so many appointments, it's not going to hurt their schedule. That's how the human mind works, right? So if we're giving them like 50 different appointments, one, analysis paralysis, way too many options, two, it's not gonna be important to me. It's not gonna hurt anybody's feelings or your production. But if you add value, if you say, Adam Hogan: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Naiara: All right, Sandy, I don't know, I'm just gonna make up a name. All right, Sandy, I have a complimentary consultation. Usually these consults are about $500. It's gonna be complimentary to you and I'm setting aside an hour of doctor's time in the schedule just for you. So if anything happens, just do me a favor so we can respect the schedule. Let me know 48 hours in advance, please. Those are two different conversations. Adam Hogan: Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely and that's what we're trying to say around here is you know, this is an hour We can wave this one time it's a gift for you, but I can only wave it one time and he's very very busy and I currently see that I happen to have an opening today at three o'clock and the next one's available You know tomorrow at three o'clock or whatever as well, but two choices a B, you know Naiara: Yep, absolutely. Adam Hogan: When doctors have offices that they'll allow a consultation any day of the week at any time, it tells me it's chaos in that practice. It's absolutely, because I know I have my surgery blocks and I have my consult blocks and I have my final delivery blocks and it makes everything run much more streamlined. so if you're giving consults at 8 a.m. on Monday morning, I don't know if you have your priorities straight and also 4 p.m. on Friday. Naiara: ⁓ yeah. up. Adam Hogan: Like we know that we have got a lot more to do than just the console call. Naiara: Absolutely. And the preparation for the consultations too. mean, like there's a lot of prep that usually happens either right after the morning huddle and things like that too. So like that 8 a.m. spot, it was impossible for me to give that kind of consultation times because at that time I'm talking to consult to the doctor before he goes into surgery. Adam Hogan: Right, yeah. Yeah, we've got a very structured environment. The sales team does this from eight to nine, and this from nine to 11, and then 11 to 12, and then we might be rolling into some consults, depending on the day of the week. But it's very structured. So I think there's a lot of systems that go into place. I don't know if you know, I teach a business seminar for a couple of days to doctors. And before I even get into the latter half of the first day where we talk about sales and consults. We talk about structures and teams and systems because if that's not in place, this is all a moot point. We're just wasting our money. Yeah. Is your sales agency, I don't know, that's a terrible term, the sale. Tell me who you work for and tell me about that and the services you offer. Naiara: Yep, absolutely. Yeah, so I work for GNA Consulting. Greg Esmocker is the CEO. He was employee number three for Neodent. you know, we kind of all come with different aspects of the implant, the all-in-four world, which is absolutely amazing because we're able to help lots of the doctor, for example, just making sure that the system and how they're doing their operations even. I'm not talking like ops. I'm actually saying surgeries. right? ⁓ Making sure that that's in process, that process grade. And then I come from more of the operations and sales aspect of it. And then I focus on the lead call only because Sarah, she's our treatment coordinator coach who has had an amazing, amazing ⁓ opportunity before of like closing over 30 arches a month. She's the one who teaches those treatment coordinators really how to be closers. So Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Naiara: I'm really proud of working for GNA because one, I get to teach what I love, but two, I have experts by my side too. So if any aspect of any doctor ⁓ happens, any questions or anything, I know I got people, even like you, right? Like if somebody asked me a business question, I'm like, I know exactly who to text. You want to have those people in your back pocket. Adam Hogan: Yeah, absolutely. So say the name of the company one more time. Naiara: Yeah, GNA Consulting. Yes. ⁓ Adam Hogan: GNA consulting, okay, I usually save that for them, but I just thought I'd kinda get that out of way because I want people to know how to find you. You seem like such a great wealth of knowledge and obviously from talking to you both in our prep phone call and today, I know I'm talking to the real deal. I know I'm talking to someone who, as they say, talks the talk and walks the walk. They know really how it runs inside the practice, for sure. One of the reasons I wanted you to be on this call, because I think that... Naiara: Thank Thank you. Yes. Adam Hogan: I know, I don't think, I know that doctors spend so much time and money and training into our skills and our crafts. They spend 99 % more time in their skills than they do in business. And then when they get into business, they almost forget about sales and they forget about the leads and they just kind of hope it's all gonna happen if they just spend money with a marketing firm, right? If I had a Google ad, I'd be successful. Naiara: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Right. Yeah, it's just what happens. what I, I'm going to shift gears from what I was about to say, but what I hear a lot in conferences is my marketing company is not sending me qualified leads. And really that, that filter of whether a lead is qualified or not sits in the call, not in your marketing. So it's so important for coaching for, and for me to help the business owners too, the doctors. mean, I worked for a doctor for a very long time. So I was able to see the stress that you guys go through every single month at the end of the month. like, are we gonna meet our goal or not? Like that stress, I've been there, I've been in that room, I felt that stress and that's what makes me so passionate, helping not just the team members, but helping the team help the doctor. That's my philosophy. Adam Hogan: Yeah. Well, doctors, if you're still stressing about that, come to how to five to 20, because we'll talk to you about how to put the carrot before the horse and your sales team, make that, make sure they're motivated. So you won't have to worry about motivating them every day. They're correct. You know what I'm talking about, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let them worry about it, you know, and I'll give you a hint. If you're giving them a hundred thousand dollar base salary, Naiara: ⁓ yeah, ⁓ yeah, absolutely. I've been there actually. Mm-hmm. Adam Hogan: before, but you might have lack of motivation. So be very careful with that. Naiara: ⁓ yeah, incentives, mean, let me tell, and I will give a real story right now. If end of month was coming, we were not at goal, I knew that I would get that little bit more of an incentive, not a little bit actually, my incentive was pretty big. So I was in that follow-up, I was getting very creative on how to close more cases because I was incentivized by it. Adam Hogan: Yeah, well, hungry people will hunt. You know, so, you know, if you let them sit at the all you can eat buffet, they're not going outside to forage. Right. I want to talk about ⁓ future. Where do you see this going? You know, A.I. How does that help us? How does it hurt us? What do you see on the forefront? And what do you what do you recommend that they implement today? Naiara: apps nail on the head yeah Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so AI I think is going to be a great help to us and a lot of people are saying well AI is going to replace My employees one day, I've seen so far, we're very early on in the AI phase to where I have not seen a certain agent just be able to get into that emotional connection as a human can. I do not see us getting replaced, the lead call specialist by AI. I've tried to, I've explored options because it is a lot cheaper and easier for me to train an AI than a human in my setter department, but it just has, it's not there yet. ⁓ Maybe one day we're not there, but I think Adam Hogan: Yeah. Right. Naiara: AI what it's doing, it's making people a lot more impatient though. I think for AI is going to help in the insurance verification, I'm saying that on quotes for those who are not seeing it. ⁓ AI is going to help with drafting the email, sending a text, how I can make this text message sound more influential so they can understand. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Naiara: AI is going to help us with communication aspects, but for every one person that we needed for that patient experience aspect, now we're going to need two. So it's not gonna really replace that because people are wanting answers now. We have 10 minutes to be able to reach out to a patient before they move on to their next priority. My speed to lead goal for marketing, just here's kind of a little bit of insight here, it's 10 minutes or less. It has to be. That's how quick we have to be reaching out to these patients and that's how quick they're moving on. After 10 minutes, you've lost them. Adam Hogan: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Naiara: The roof in their house is now a priority. Adam Hogan: Yeah, I've got some very specific speed to lead and all these algorithms and formulas for success on speed ⁓ at the high of 510.20. I agree 10 minutes is maximum. I mean, that's a long time in today's day and age. I will say there's also something to be said for where you live. I mean, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, AI that you need is different from New York City or LA. There's people in LA that just don't want to talk to a human until they get in front of the doctor. ⁓ I get it. Naiara: It is absolute. So true. Adam Hogan: In Sioux Falls, if you get a computer answer the phone, you may not get that person at all. They may not call back. But I do believe that it can help. it's like, are things that AI, I don't think computers can do. whether it be the neuro, like Alex Karp talks about the neurodivergent and the free thinkers, the abstract thinkers and things like that. But I think another person you put in that is the sales team. The sales people, people. Naiara: No. I was so- Adam Hogan: by based on connection, human connection and trust. For the most part, I think, in this game at least. Would you agree? So even if we have computers set up the appointment, is it not important to have somebody connect the next day? Would you think? Yeah. So. Naiara: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Absolutely. Mm-hmm, exactly. No, it's crucial. I mean, I have offices who have, for example, AI to where it helps them for speed to lead, so it texts them right off the bat. That way we can keep that conversation going until somebody is able to call. And that is the biggest part. They still need to call, even if they booked the appointment themselves. We need to book a welcome call of welcome to the office. Tell me about you. This is what makes us different and things like that too. Tell me your story. Because without that emotional connection... Adam Hogan: Right. That's right. Naiara: we're not going to be able to get from curiosity to now being able to be committed to coming into that appointment and we're going to see no shows happen. Adam Hogan: I still think that the vast majority of people need to have a human connection. I mean, there are, I've heard stories out there of people having relationships with their AI bot and things like that, but I still think they're outliers. I don't think that they're the comment, you know? But you want to be able to connect with somebody. I think surely it can set the appointment. ⁓ Let's move on. Your company, by the way, do you have a proprietary AI bot program or no? In your company? No, okay. Naiara: ⁓ yeah. They are. No, we looked into it. I decided to go the human route still. Adam Hogan: Is there one that you've heard of that's good or even two or three that you'd recommend? Naiara: To be honest with you, right now, I cannot recommend one right now. I've heard of some, I wanna say it's called Arsini is the company, that it's called, it's great, but... for Speed to Lead. So I'm gonna say that it works great to help you with Speed to Lead. Conversion and no shows, I have not seen one yet. And this is for anybody listening here, know, get into this part of the industry. This is money to be made if you can make this happen. I mean, lots of money to be made. Because if there is one, I would love to know about it. I just, I've heard, I've interacted, I've heard calls from offices, which is what I do most of my day. ⁓ Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Naiara: And to me it just still doesn't get the punch, the nail on the head. I'm gonna keep saying that. Adam Hogan: Yeah, I would agree. I've been, know, as I guess for lack of a better word, an influencer in this field, I've been getting proposals from AI companies for the last couple of years and it's always turned up disappointing, I'd say. And I'm almost gun shy about picking, I mean, I got a text this morning from another company wanting me to try their AI and I'm just, I'm like gun shy because I don't think I have the time. I don't think it's gonna be ready. It's just, I have been down this road and wasted so much time and I get to it, I get into it and I'm like the one expected to train them and help develop it without any equity or stake in the company by the way. It's like, ⁓ yeah, they wanna know what else do think it should do? ⁓ how would you do it? ⁓ can you train it for us? It's been the same thing with everybody for the last two years. So I'm still waiting to see it. if you're an AI company out there and you think you have it figured out, contact me and we'll do it. Naiara: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Adam Hogan: We'll talk about it. We'll put it out there. I'm dying for it to be out Naiara: Yeah. Me too, and me too, I've searched for it. I've looked for people to build it. I mean, and I've had a lot of promising people. It's just not too, I don't think AI really knows humans. I think we're in the very early phase of them understanding us, whether that's an exciting or scary thing. I mean, sometimes I think it's more scary than exciting, but sometimes I feel like it's exciting too. But I don't think that they really understand the human psychology of it and how humans interact to it too. Adam Hogan: Yeah. Well, I think we're safe for a period of 100 years. I won't say that it will never happen, but when you talk about empathy and compassion, you have to know what it's like to feel pleasure and pain. And a robot or a computer is not able to feel pleasure and pain. So how can you possibly understand what a human's going through? So there will always be a sales job, always be a sales job or a psychologist job or whatever, somebody to connect on the human level. Naiara: Yeah. Yes! Adam Hogan: but you know, because computers can be very smart. They can set up that speed to lead, but it's gonna take a human to close the case. mean, I don't think that that's gonna replace URI anytime in our lifetime. Okay, probably not my kids either, at least for a while. Naiara: Exactly, absolutely. Not in our lifetime, no. Yes, I think maybe our grandkids. Maybe, I don't know. We'll see. We'll have to see. Yes. Adam Hogan: They'll have to adapt. They'll have to adapt. Let's talk about the doctor. Okay, we're probably, you we're coming up on an hour here. So I don't, I try to keep it to an hour and 15, but I want to talk about the doctors. Okay. Cause most of our listeners might be the doctors and doctors. If you're listening to this, you need to get your teams to listen to deny ⁓ as well. This is free training right here this hour. Naiara: Yes. Adam Hogan: All right. ⁓ I how do you feel about the doctors in the consultation room and what identifies a good doctor in a consultation room and versus one who needs some help in training. Naiara: Yeah, I would say a great doctor in a consultation room is there for no more than 15 minutes. They come in, they are already prepped on what's going on in the CVCT. They come in to diagnose, they do a little bit chatter, they let them know that they are human, they're a great person to trust as well. And then they get out. They don't talk about money. I always say the doctor's the superhero here. You're the person who's going to be able to make this happen for them. You are the expert. This is not what I recommend. We never recommend. Based on what I'm seeing here, this is the treatment that is going to be best for what you're describing that you want to do. Insert motivator here, right? For you to be able to chew, I say that you need to go towards the all-necks. So then the doctor and the treatment coordinator, they play, I call it this dance of... And Nye here, she's gonna go through how to make this happen, all the fees and things like that. You are in great hands. The same way Nye said, you know, this is Dr. Hogan. And she really talked you up and she really made you the superhero. Dr. Hogan just had a patient just very similar cases to you and they're chewing steak. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Naiara: So I'm so confident that we're going to be able to get a solution here for you. So being able to talk great about that team and that goes into, mean, that is a much bigger conversation that we're probably not going to get to, but that's culture, that's empowerment throughout your team and things like that. But to be able to play that dance back and forth, that also shows the patient that there's appreciation and great communication in front of you. And for somebody who's about to undergo surgery, And a lot of the times we've normalized like, ⁓ it's just surgery. No, for them it's surgery. It's scary. I think that's absolutely needed for them to see and make that decision for themselves. Adam Hogan: Right. Right. Yeah, I've I've coached a lot of doctors as well and seen, you know, like semi semi a recording or this and that, or I talked to them about what they're doing. And I get that. ⁓ Well, it goes back to talking too much. They talk too much. They talk about themselves. They talk about their treatment. They talk about the nuts and bolts, the implants. They start talking about the risks. They start talking about, you know, and of course, there's a time and a place for that. But, you know, they start talking about all the things that can go wrong. And, you know, it's just. stop talking, you know, like, I mean, I, I had an associate in here and I was like, they, you love hearing yourself talk. I guarantee you the patient doesn't love hearing about you as much as you like hearing about you. I guarantee it, you know, and I used to, I used to kid him, you know, at the risk of sounding just a little bit too masculine, masculine here, you know, you know, I'd say, I'd be like, you, you could talk a girl out of your bedroom, like Naiara: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Adam Hogan: She's came all the way home with you and you're gonna talk so much, you're gonna leave. Meaning I see patients that are ready to say yes until they listen to your drone on for 20 minutes and now they're not so sure anymore. Right? Get out of the room. Naiara: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Get it, get it. Just, I used to almost like, there used to be a look in my eyes and I used to... Adam Hogan: Get out. ⁓ huh. Yeah. Naiara: there was a look, right? okay, that's enough ⁓ between my doctor and I. It was fabulous once we were able to like coordinate the dance accordingly, we're not stepping on each other's toes or anything. But like once I gave him the look, he was like, ⁓ I gotta wrap things up, right? Like I gotta go because, you know, there is such thing as analysis for us. And if you're talking about implants and an on-fore and an over-denture and, you know, you could also do a denture. How are they gonna know which the best choice is gonna be for them? Adam Hogan: Yeah. Yeah. Naiara: They're just hearing a lot of options. They're getting overwhelmed. Adam Hogan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna give you, you listeners, you doctors, another tip that you'll hear in my how to 5, 10, 20, which by the way, just for a plug, it's gonna be in Houston, October 23 and 24, my next one. But, you another little tip, you know, for those of you, and you're gonna get a million more at the business class. But if you walk into a consult room and if you can't tell in 30 seconds or three minutes if you want this patient and if they're an all-in-four, then you've got two choices. You pull chocks because you don't like them they don't like you, all right? Or they're in the wrong place or they don't need your services. Or you're like, well, maybe this person has five other possible treatment plan options. I'm like, okay, ⁓ let's set up a comprehensive exam. Let's move on. know, let's, and Bria, you know, you can talk to them about all on four over dentures, you know, saving their teeth. Let's go home and find out where your mind's at and we'll talk at a comprehensive evaluation. But you've got three minutes. You either like them and they're all on four or they're not. And they need to either go home or come back for an exam, right? Naiara: Mm-hmm, absolutely. Your time is valuable, especially doctors. mean, in the schedules, one thing that I still teach is, you know, those console times, that's a lot of, you know... treatment coordinator, but doctor time too. And doctor times has the biggest amount of significance. Your time is the most expensive in the room. So I need you in, I need you out. Like I want you to think of like a video game, like how long were you know, back I'm young, but not that young, back where a payphone, you know, you had to pay for minutes, right? So that's how I would always say the doctor's time is like, you know, the longer they're there, the less, the more money you're paying, right? Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm Yeah, and for every three to five minutes that I'm sitting in a consultation room I have one more team member standing at the door waiting and looking at eyeing in the room, you know, come on Let's go hurry up, know every five minutes There's one more person standing there and I'm getting further and further behind and that's what you're there for an eye, right? You you I can leave the doctor can leave and you can spend the next 20 minutes or two hours finding out if they're financially qualified and all that nonsense and what are all the doctors we need to get in touch with, all the medical, et cetera. You can do all that with me out of the room if you're well trained. Naiara: Absolutely. they should. You should not be there for any of the financial conversations at all. You're there to diagnose. You're there to build a little rapport. And then you're out is usually what I say. Adam Hogan: What's your advice when the patient just kind of like catches you off guard and they say, doctor, all I need to know is how much it is. Does the doctor go, uh, I know, I'm afraid to answer. What do they say? Naiara: I don't know. Yeah. No, and it catches so many doctors off guard, and to be honest with you, what I usually suggest, doctors are like, you know what, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how much it is, but however, Nye here, she's the expert. She knows all the prices. So let's go ahead, I'm gonna just finish letting you know. This is what I see that the best option for you is, and then Nye's gonna go, and she's more than qualified to go through this options for you. Adam Hogan: Perfect. Naiara: I'm just like, because in your mind, I don't want you to know. I don't even want you to know how much anything is. I want you to forget how much you charge from the office because that's how much it is on me. I'm the expert in financing. I'm the one that is going to bring creative solutions to the table for them. Adam Hogan: Yeah. I always say, you know what, Bri here is more than qualified to handle all that. She's expert at this. She's seen me do this over a thousand times and I don't want to screw it up. You know, I'm going to, if I, I handle biology and I handle beautiful smiles and they don't let me touch money because they know I'm going to screw it up. Right. I'm like, that's between my wife and this girl. Like I don't handle it. Yeah. And they usually understand, you know, Naiara: There we go. I love it. There we I love it. That's an amazing answer. I love it. They're like, okay, sounds good. Yeah. Adam Hogan: Yeah, guys are like, yeah, I'm not allowed to touch the money either. And women are like, yeah, I don't let him touch the money either. right. Naiara: They got it. You're able to relate with them, right? It's a little bit of the icebreaker, too. Yeah. Adam Hogan: Yeah, it is absolutely. ⁓ my God, what have we not talked about yet? I feel like we could talk forever. In fact, I'd love to have an offline conversation with you. ⁓ You see if I could steal you from Greg. No, I'm kidding. Kidding. Naiara: Yeah. Greg's gonna be listening to like, ⁓ that's it. No, I'm kidding. Adam Hogan: I know you're probably very happy. You seem very happy where you're at. So Greg, totally kidding. But what have we not talked about? What do we have to cover? Naiara: Yes. I, one thing that I always love to talk about and it's one of my favorite subjects to talk about is creative financing, because that's another thing that I teach on a lot, especially in all in four. Adam Hogan: us. Yes. Yes. Naiara: Because something that I hear a lot is, ⁓ this costs as much as a car. I mean, you've probably heard this a million times. And this is a barrier that I have not just with patients, but with team members too, in all aspects of the dentistry. mean, from lead call all the way to treatment coordinator, even assistants sometimes usually kill the deal because... Adam Hogan: Yes. Naiara: they think it's too expensive. And one thing that I had to do and something that I've studied too through being like a neuroscience coach and understanding the psychology of sales is also studying other industries too. you know, I talked to a car, he was a GM, car sale, a GM at a Lexus dealership and I said, you know, Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Naiara: I go in my interstate every day and I'm just looking around, I see hundreds if not thousands of cars that are, you know, the same price as All in Four or even more expensive and people have them all the time. Like luxury cars, I'm like, so how can they get finance for this? But why is it so hard to get finance for All in Four? Because a lot of the times it's just making it affordable for them. And I said at the table, if you haven't noticed already, Adam Hogan: Right. Mm-hmm. Naiara: I'm very extroverted, so I talk to anybody and anything that's willing to talk to me. And I'm sitting next to a table at restaurant and I'm like, who are you? What's your name? What do you do? And it's the GM from Lexus. And I said, you know, I'm just curious, how long does it take for somebody to say yes to about a $50,000 card? And he said, you know, our average is about 15 minutes. And I'm like, huh. Tell me more. So tell me how you make that happen. Tell me what your sales agents on the floor do to get them to say yes. They're like, well first, we don't focus on MSRP because that's a really big number. And that's the one number that they're not going to remember as they make their monthly payments. And two, we have 150 plus banks that we partner with. And I remember that this made me think, Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Naiara: a lot about how I'm able to create solutions for patients too. I'm like, you know, I have, and I'll say the names, right? Like I'll have Cherry Sun, Medicare credit, you know, all these. And getting approved for a lot of them is really hard. You have to have A1 credit, basically. So what are some solutions that I could offer for patients to say maybe yes now, maybe yes in a year? ⁓ But Adam Hogan: Yeah. Right, Naiara: either, but again, the number one word in my vocabulary that does not exist is no. So I came up with a lot of creative solutions, one being I had... Adam Hogan: Right. Naiara: a patient for example, and she said, I wanna go on a trip, my daughter's wedding's in Hawaii, and by the time I go to Hawaii, I wanna be able to smile. I tied in that motivator, that trigger that we were talking about, and I said, she had a great credit, thankfully, and I'm like, you know, there's a lot of travel cards that we can utilize, so you can actually earn enough points for that trip to be free. Interesting, right? How many treatment coordinators do that? And she's like, absolutely yes, because I tied her motivator. And guess what we didn't use? We didn't use financing, so there was no merchant fees. Adam Hogan: Right? Wow, yeah. Okay, yeah. Naiara: So, I mean, that's creative. Then another thing that I did is I partnered with a lot of ⁓ credit unions around my area. A lot of credit unions are actually a lot more flexible at giving out loans. And as long as you have a relationship, you have a representative, for example. And you can actually get a lot of more people approved, especially if they have a credit union, through that. that, again, no merchant fees. Again, that's a double win. But the one that Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Naiara: worked the best is for those people who did not have credit at all, right? Like they were not going to get approved with anything. And I partnered with a credit repair consultant is what she called herself. Adam Hogan: Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. Naiara: And I said, okay, so how long does this person need your services for them to be able to get financed for about 40 to 50,000? It's like, well, first they need a certain job, income, things like that, but within a year, we can repair their credit, get them to credit utilization and things like that. I'm like, huh, so could we put them in a denture for a year only? Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Naiara: and then start placing the implants in a year so I can get the yes, then. And that way, so like all these things, and I talked to everybody, like, I never thought of that. And I'm like, we need to start thinking dentistry, and I'm gonna go back to what we were talking and how we're perceived. We're perceived as salespeople who just say no, because it's really hard to get financed in dentistry. There's not a lot of medical loans that cover that, you know, risky credit type and things like that. There's not a lot of, you know, we don't wanna do in-house finances for obvious reasons. Adam Hogan: Right. Mm-hmm. Naiara: risky for us, know, for you as a business owner as well, and you're not a bank, so you shouldn't be doing that anyways. But being able to go get together as a team and say, you know, how can we provide as many opportunities and be creative to get more people to say yes, will get you more yeses too. That's super important. Adam Hogan: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Right. Yes, I'm glad you brought it up because this is a strategy that we've taken as well. You know, it's it's the worst feeling in the world to, you get them on the phone, get them into the building, sit down with them for an hour and blah, blah, blah. And then you go, ⁓ they were denied for credit. Gone forever. You know, it's like. Naiara: That's it. Yeah. Adam Hogan: How many times did you run the credit? How many banks did you run it? How many financing institutions? Did you ask for a co-signer? Did a friend? Did you tell them to start a GoFundMe? Did you try to fix their credit, like anything? But we ran it through our top finance company and it came back denied. Or it came back for $18,000 or some $8,000. And you just said goodbye? You just said goodbye? Right? Naiara: Yeah, exactly. you That's it? Yeah. I see it every day. Every day. So many times a day. I'm like, ⁓ well, let's sit down and be creative then because right now we're not allowing the yes. We are the biggest bottleneck sometimes for them to say yes versus no. Adam Hogan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've let my people, you know, I've given them SOP, okay, and for those that don't understand that, come to How to Five, Ten, Twenty. But I've given them SOP for what the price is and how they can get to sales today and how they can drop it, you know, and how low before you jump to the single arch denture or you jump to the temporary PMMA, you know, and how low you can drop it here and there, you know. So they know, they don't have to come ask me every time they have a consult. Like, you know, I don't know if your price is 50 grand and. Naiara: Mm-hmm. Adam Hogan: Doctors will just throw out a even number and doctors will come get this sales team come down all day long like this patient has 42 five, this patient has 33 five, this patient has 27 five, this patient has 49 and they're always like, what do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do? Like create an SOP for God's sakes. If you get a question three times, it needs a policy. Naiara: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ absolutely. I love that actually. That should, I mean, that should be a quote. Can you post that? Adam Hogan: Okay, yeah, you post it, tag me, it'll work better on my algorithm. All ⁓ right, and I'll find something to repost for you. ⁓ By the way, Instagram pages, ⁓ you're on Instagram no doubt, I'm sure. What's your tag handle? Naiara: There we go, I love it, I will post it. Yes. Yes. So it's full-arch underscore call coach. Go figure. Adam Hogan: Full arch, let me see, wait I think I might have it pulled up here. Full arch underscore call coach. Let me see if I can find. That might be here. There you go. Look at that. Naiara: Call Coach. ⁓ that's me! Look at that, it's all psychology based. Adam Hogan: Full arch underscore nice you look good in blue looks that looks great. Okay. Love it Naiara: Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Funny enough, the office that I worked for for many, many years, that is the only color that we were allowed to wear is blue because it's the color of trust. So naturally, a lot of my closet is blue. I've switched then to red just to rebel against me wearing blue for so many years. That's the only reason. Adam Hogan: ⁓ Okay, great. Yeah, that is hilarious that they had a uniform color. Naiara: ⁓ And I was like you look so good in blue you always wear blue and I'm like it's not because I want to I want to wear black today Adam Hogan: probably wasn't your fault. There was probably some underlying reason like a previous worker wore hideous like vomit green all the time and they had to be like, okay, we've got to get out of the green. So good. What are we going to do? Well, blue is kind of natural for everybody. ⁓ Naiara: What are you gonna do? ⁓ yeah, no, no, no. The only reason why it was is blue is the color of trust. And I'm like, I don't think that applies so much, but that's okay, that's okay. I will wear blue. You say I jump, jump. Adam Hogan: I love it. The color of trust. Is there a color to put in your waiting room or in your consultation room on the walls? Is there a special color? Naiara: I never say colors, but I do love whenever consultation rooms have TVs and they have a loop going. One of the things that I've done with an office is do a steak club. So we asked patients to take pictures of the first time that they were able to eat steak. Adam Hogan: Yeah. Naiara: What better picture for somebody there for a council for on and for us seeing all these people eat the steak that they want to eat. I mean, what better motivator for them. So it's not so much about color as to how you portray how you give hope and again, how you portray your team, your expertise. Adam Hogan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Naiara: before and afters of like some, just the mouth. It doesn't have to be surgical or anything like that. Just the smile before, the smile after. So they see exactly. Adam Hogan: Yeah, I love the monitors in the room and one of my final parting ⁓ tips and advice, my last freebie advice I'm gonna give everybody on this pod is ⁓ even though my monitor might have ⁓ a screen display of different people that have had their life changed and one person's jumping out airplane, one person's eating steak and they get to see all these people living their lives. ⁓ It is not a substitute for having your butt in the room. If you want to get somebody to say no, leave them in a room by themselves for six minutes. So do not let the TV replace the human touch. I I learned this in 2003 or whatever, I was moonlighting out of practice, and if the doctor recommended a root canal, they would have the assistant turn on this computer and it would explain the root canal procedure. Naiara: Yes. Adam Hogan: for seven minutes and they were like, you're supposed to leave the room and let them watch the video. And I'm like, can you think of something more cold and sterile? Like, why can't you just tell me what a root canal is? Right? I mean, so I'm like, if I'm busy, if I'm not able to come to the consult room, your butt better be back in there and you better be listening, not just talking, but listening, right? Visiting, because you want to come back. A certain no is coming back to a patient. Naiara: Yes. Absolutely. Adam Hogan: 20 minutes, 25 minutes sitting in that room staring at the wall. They don't appreciate, they don't feel valued with their time. So, be my last piece of advice for this. Do you have any parting words, any final advice for everybody? Naiara: Absolutely. No, I mean, I feel like I've said so many, but I mean, to me is at the end of the day, forget that instead of we forget, but a lot of times we overlook the human touch of it, that these are people with traumas. These are people who who need a human human interaction is sometimes as simple as just being there from one human to human as that as that they're not just a consultation. And the moment that I was able to realize that is the moment that I became a different treatment coordinator. and I've gotten a lot better results than I did before. Adam Hogan: Yeah, across the board in this industry, anybody out there listening, all of you doctors and staff listening, make it about the human connection. It is a lonely world when you're talking about implants, arches and money. It is a lonely, terrible world. And I mean, yesterday, I think I had a I had a grown man sitting in my chair, crying at his new life and how great it's been. And I'm talking about a man who's done time, you know, and a hard man. So it's, but he's very unhardened, he's very happy. And just making it about the human element, it never gets old and you never burn out. And that's what people are looking for out there. So they're not gonna be, you're not gonna be replaced with computers anytime soon. And I doubt you will ever be replaced, Ms. Nye. Naiara: Thank you. I hope not. My AI better not replace me. I don't think it will. Adam Hogan: Well, I've really enjoyed this conversation, so I want to thank you. I would actually love the opportunity to continue the conversation further and talk to you, work with you, or just know you. seem like a good human. I like having good humans in my life. So thank you for being on the show. Naiara: Yeah. Absolutely. Of course. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you. Adam Hogan: One more time how to find you. Naiara: Yes, so FullArch underscore call coach, that is my professional one. I also have a personal one if you want to get to know me, want to be my friend. I'm an extrovert, I become friends with everybody. It is naira, N-A-I-A-R-A underscore smiles. Adam Hogan: Love it. Well, thanks for listening everybody. Thank you for Naira, Nye for being on the show here today. If you've enjoyed this show, I want to encourage you to please subscribe online at YouTube, the Spotify app or on the pod app or all three. Keep us rolling and stay listening. And remember if you're going to go all in, if you're going to go for all on X, you got to go all in. All right. This is not an easy game. So until next time, everybody have a wonderful day. Thanks. Thanks for joining me, Nye. Naiara: course, my pleasure. Thank you. Adam Hogan: All right, have a good day. Good night.