speaker-0: Ride, teach, inspire. This is the dropping next podcast brought to you by the Canadian Association of Snowboard Instructors. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Dropping Next podcast. I'm Rob Whelan and I'll be coasting this next episode with Genevieve Piloteau. We have an awesome episode on deck for you here today. We've got Cody Ratcliffe joining us and we'll be digging into his story with snowboarding a little bit ⁓ and ultimately landing on the crux of our episode and the main topic that we're going to discuss, which is teaching internationally and working with some of our international course providers. So with that, Jen is actually gonna be doing a little bit of double duty as host as well as guest because she's also got a pretty vast experience teaching and working in different countries around the world. lots of cool insights that'll come out of this one, excited to jump into it. And before we do, I'm gonna introduce our guest, Cody Ratcliffe, for those of you out there who don't know who he is. He's a level four with CASI, level three evaluator and has been working back to back to back seasons in Canada and China chasing snow, banking about 150 plus days a year. We'll get into this. I think that number is wrong. ⁓ He spent his teens and early twenties competing in parallel GS and slalom and a number of those years chasing fifth points with the Canadian national team. ⁓ Eventually hung up the hard boots and moved out to big white and taught there for a number of seasons. Ultimately landing back in Quebec where he was born and raised in the Laurentians. Dabble a little bit in real estate, but has ultimately found his full-time work with snowboarding evaluated the year two times, 2020 and 2023 in the Quebec and Atlantic region. I like to call him the unofficial mayor of Montreux. Cody Ratcliffe, welcome to Dropping Next.

speaker-1: Happy to be here.

speaker-0: Nice. ⁓ hey Jen, sorry, I didn't give you a chance to jump in and say hello to the guests.

speaker-2: Hello everybody.

speaker-0: There we go, it's official. So jumping right into it here, ⁓ you know, I thought it'd be interesting to start off with a little bit of your story and your background in snowboarding, which, like I said, born and raised in the Laurentian. So I'm guessing your parents had you on skis at an early age. Kind of take us through that just to give us a little background about ⁓ your journey and how you ended up where you are.

speaker-1: Yeah, born and raised in Tramla, ⁓ ski bond family. Parents met as a ski instructor and ski control. ⁓ Was on skis as soon as I could walk. Transitioned into snowboarding because it looked like a lot of fun when I was grade three. ⁓ After watching the 98 Olympics when snowboarding got introduced, I watched JCGA compete and it looked like a lot of fun. So as you mentioned, I into the hard boot realm for a while. Did that for a time, Quebec team and the national team for three years. Retired at the end of the 08-09 season. Was kind of not sure what I was going to do next with my life. Was a adrift. And an old friend of mine, was Cassie of Iowet and everything, took me out for a beer and just went. I think you need to go into this route with me and, uh, convinced me to start doing my tasks and stuff and quickly really started enjoying that side of it. Um, progress through my levels, started evaluating, ended up, as you said, I ended up at West for some time at big white, which was great. And then decided to come back home. You said, you found was my home. It's where my heart will always be. I want to come back and then yeah, I've just been evaluating and instructing since then. Still love doing it. Still love spending time out on snow.

speaker-0: You're in a space with people who feel the same way. So that's pretty sweet. We get where you're coming from. You mentioned somebody sort of pulled you under your wing there early on and kind of encouraged you to go the Cassie route after your career in snowboard racing. Who was that?

speaker-1: I was Alistair Greenfield. He, uh, used to be the head of snowboarding for Skiligat. And so he, was getting some people and said, you should come and coach. And comically I said, I didn't want to be on the road anymore. So I thought instructing would be a good way to just stay home. That's slightly changed nowadays, but yeah. And so he pulled me in and I, uh, I fell in love with it, worked with him at Skiligat for some time. And then, yeah, just. just really enjoyed the instructing aspect of it. Really got enjoying helping people progress in a different way than coaching.

speaker-0: Nice, well, it's funny. I had to laugh when you said you wanted to start teaching so that you weren't on the road so much. I think you're pretty much on the road full time. Even when you're back in Canada, you're back and forth between the areas of Quebec and Ontario, racking the miles up on your truck and then racking up air miles too, going back and forth to China. So as I said in the intro, ⁓ we're going to dig into what it's like to work internationally. It's big part of what we do at CASI. And I'm going to get Jen to sort of describe, well, I guess what an international course provider is and what our relationship ⁓ at CASI is with those organizations.

speaker-2: For sure. We work with very international course providers in different countries and ⁓ providers are like Cassie partners. Basically, they're independent, they signed contract with Cassie. So they have our authorization to run our programs and part of their duties is to ensure that those programs are run in the best quality possible, of course. And that's where we have a very tight relationship, continuous. discussion ⁓ with the providers, but also with the evaluators. We'll touch on that a little bit later in the show, more about the evaluators ⁓ going abroad. But the course provider are responsible to hire those evaluators that we recommend ⁓ that are authorized to go and deliver those programs. So quality of delivery is a big thing. So no matter if the program is delivered internationally or nationally in Canada, our programs are the same. We offer them, it's the same content, it's the same land, it's the same, those are the same program. In some cases for the international course providers, they might choose to offer some pre-camp and stuff that are kind of preparation towards our program, but it's important to know that the consistency of the program. are the same, whether we talk about the evaluation standards or the course presentation, because they hire the evaluators that are trained to those programs in the same way, anywhere. A bit of rambling here, Rob. Bring me back on track.

speaker-0: We're here to ramble. That's what this is all about. So we're the Canadian Association of Snowboard Instructors. So what are we doing teaching in Korea, China, Japan, etc.?

speaker-2: Why not? know, like teaching programs internationally is a good opportunity where there's Daemen, we're there, we're there to support, we're there to help. There are some countries that ⁓ might need a bit of a different system or not necessarily need, but want to have a bit of a different system underground. So it's an opportunity for us to offer and provide to this Daemen. In our CASI mission, tend to see snowboarding globally, and as a whole, then our mission is to constantly improve the snowboarding industry. So working towards that, it just makes sense that we're proud of offering our programs.

speaker-0: I think it's so cool how highly regarded we are around the world. That speaks to our system quite highly.

speaker-2: Yeah, definitely. think like being at EnterisKey once and also like chatting with lots of people around the world and also like with people like Cody being abroad. Like our system is accessible. Like if you think about we're one of the only system that have four levels ⁓ of certification of instructors. So our level one is very accessible. that does ⁓ help people to become an instructor and also decide if... they wanna pursue their journey in the instruction ⁓ work. So that's one of the reasons why ⁓ there's lots of people interested in Tukasi. And of course, because of the quality of our project and our content, we've been doing that for a long time now, and then we've been updating and constantly improving our content. And we're at a point where ⁓ our product is in a very strong place and that definitely ⁓ contributes to the like training the best instructors out there.

speaker-0: Hell yeah. I forgot to mention this before, this might change in the final rendering of the episode. But for those of you watching this in video format, Cody's video is a little pixelated. So hopefully it gets fixed on the back end. But the reason for that is because Cody is actually in China right now. who knows? I don't know what the signal's like out there. Maybe that's affecting things. But if his audio gets funky or his video gets a little weird, That's why, because he's putting in hours and working for us over in China right now. ⁓ So with that kind of segues into the next question of how long have you been at this international bit?

speaker-1: I went to Andorra in the start of the 2022 season or yeah, 2022, 23. And then later that year I ended up just happened since I was available to go and end up going to China for the first time in the spring of 2023. Um, so we 23, get a whole bunch of work, took some time off from going almost a year. And then now I've been going. At this point, yeah, spending a lot of time here in the last couple of years. Kind of spending half the season upwards of probably seven months, eight months going back and forth from Canada and China for work until the winter starts in Canada.

speaker-0: I know that when you're over there and our other evaluators are over there, you're typically there for what, like six to eight weeks at a time?

speaker-1: There's one individual that does China, Japan, Rusty, but most of us come in for six, seven weeks at a time. And then we head home or maybe go somewhere else. Like last year I did about six weeks and then I went on vacation. My girlfriend came and met me and we went and spent time in Hong Kong and Taiwan. And then I came back in and did another.

speaker-2: Yeah, on that that note, if I can jump in here, that's ⁓ for us, that's important that evaluators ⁓ have like breaks between the courses and also, of course, like the course provider bringing an evaluator abroad. It's hard to bring them only for a week with, you know, with the cost of like, just the visa, the expenses like to get there and just like the travel time. So it has to be worth it. those are some of the things that we're looking, ⁓ we're asking the DICPs to control and ensure that they are also bringing like a variety of evaluators. It's not always easy to have ⁓ many different people because you need to be available for a certain period of time to fly over there. ⁓ It kind of brings me back like something you said, Cody, as well brings me back to a little bit of the previous question about why we're teaching international courses. There's also one of the reason why is we're also providing opportunities for our evaluators, right? Those are good, something that evaluators, people becoming evaluators can aspire to, to eventually go and teach a few courses abroad. Like we definitely need our evaluator on our Canadian ground, but It's a good perk and encouragement to be able to at some point do, let's say a trip in China or a trip in Japan and teaching some of our product. think like the evaluators that are enjoying this are really proud of representing our association abroad.

speaker-0: Okay, cool. So we have a good fix on where you've worked and where you started. And I think that we'd be kind of interested to dig into what your experience has been like working abroad.

speaker-1: It's always been a lot of fun because you get to meet a lot of different people and just see how much people are supporting all around the world. It's also been really fun, especially these China trips. We've gone our days off going and visiting different places. In Chengdu, I got to go see the pandas, going to just different temples and getting to experience lots of different food and different parts of the culture of wherever I am. especially in a country like China that's so culturally diverse that each place you go you get to experience kind of a whole new

speaker-0: Yeah, that's really cool. And generally you're there with some Canadian colleagues who are also over there doing the same thing, right? So you get to kind of travel around with them and kind of share that experience.

speaker-1: Yeah, sometimes we're on our own. Sometimes I'll be just solo and sometimes we'll be one or two or a group. Like right now we're a big crew. ⁓ what's really fun about it is I've gotten to meet a lot of different evaluators from different parts of the country and the world. And people I may otherwise not have met before. And we get to have a lot of really fun kind of snowboard chats and Cassie chats talking about how We approach the same material, but in our own way, with different experiences from different parts of the world.

speaker-0: And that's just got to build everybody's skill set, you know, simultaneously, which is like a really cool side benefit for Cassie.

speaker-1: Yeah, like it's, I've been able to learn a lot just by having those chats with those guys and girls who have such different experiences from different places. And sometimes, you know, you got nothing else to do because we don't always speak the language and we can just socialize and you put evaluators together anywhere. We're kind of going to come back to the same subject.

speaker-2: Yeah, more talk, yeah. must know a little bit of Mandarin now.

speaker-1: Yeah, I got my little words and I got a couple of jokes that I can tell and I can use in course in Mandarin and I can get by on certain things, but it's still such a tonally hard language for me to try to grasp sometimes. This slight tonal change can be such a completely different.

speaker-0: Like I said earlier on, work domestically in Canada a fair amount as well. How do you prioritize and sort of balance your two seasons?

speaker-1: I

speaker-0: I'm to fire-

speaker-1: I try to back home. Like I try to prioritize, ⁓ my Canadian winter, like base everything around my being available for what Jen needs me to do. You know, like, that's really evaluating the levels. Yeah. Like it's or James.

speaker-2: Exactly.

speaker-1: Like with the level three stuff, know, yeah, whoever needs me, wherever I need to go. Right. ⁓ I try to prioritize and make sure I'm available to help make sure the level three stuff's running now that I'm in that realm. Also, I like, I love being on the road, but I also like being home. So I just try to make sure I'm home for kind of end of November, start of December. you know, I hit the road. March 27th. finished my last set of exams on Sunday and was on a plane on the Friday.

speaker-0: No rest for the wicked. Well, it's cool that you have the opportunity to work in the domes ⁓ because that makes it a little easier, I would imagine, to balance the two seasons. I know you're outside currently at the end of March and into April in China, but it won't be long before you're inside, hey, for most of the summer.

speaker-1: Yeah, so I'll finish up. I've got 12 more days here on snow. And then, yeah, I'll head back. I'll head into the indoors for the rest of the summer until kind of November. And then we'll spend some time in the mountains. November, of December until I then come back for Canadian winter.

speaker-0: What are some of the resorts, like what's your sort of different resorts that you're outside and then the different domes that you're in? I just feel like this might be an interesting one for people.

speaker-1: ⁓ so this year, ⁓ I spent the summer working, mostly Guanjo and I was fortunate enough to get to go run the second course. Well, it'd be one of the two first courses in Shenzhen, which is the new, it's the largest dome in the world. It just opened last fall and did that. And then was up in, ⁓ Beidahou and Beikanghuaou which is in the northeast of China and Then right now I'm in Kekatohai, which is in the super far north north northwest of China I'm up by basically the top of the mountain You look in one you look north. There's Russia. You look to our left. There's Kazakhstan and we look to our right. There's Mongolia so

speaker-2: How long does it take to travel there again, Cody? You told me before.

speaker-1: ⁓ This trip was a 52 hours door-to-door to get here. So yeah, it was Montreal Vancouver Vancouver Seoul Seoul Shanghai overnight in Shanghai a six hour five hour flight to Alatai Airport and then a four hour drive to here

speaker-2: Yeah, that's quite of a journey. I heard it's worth it with the landscape and the vibe over there.

speaker-1: Yeah, here is, it looks like a painting. Like it's absolutely beautiful. And we're right on the edge of, I don't remember the name of this place, it's a huge desert area. like driving from the airport, it's remarkable in its vast kind of emptiness. Like it's, it's beautiful in its own kind of way. And then all of a sudden you just drive into these beautiful mountains.

speaker-2: I have a question for you about enjoying in another way those beautiful mountains, because yeah, you're there to teach courses, of course, but you need some breaks and you need some day-huffs here and there, and I'm sure you're making the most of them, as you already mentioned, in terms of tourism. But what about snowboarding, jorring over there? I heard it's a thing, riding behind horses and powder.

speaker-1: Yeah, I haven't gotten the opportunity to go. really want to, but they do things here where you will go up with groups on horseback with your snowboard on your back up into the mountains. And they then you come down and your guide then brings the horses down. So we're joking, you know, who needs a snow cat when you got some horses to get you around.

speaker-0: The photojournalist in me is just like buzzing with excitement. I'm like, oh my God, if you ever get to do that, you better take amazing videos.

speaker-1: It's something I'm really hoping to try to to.

speaker-0: That's cool

speaker-2: Let us know when you do it. We'll invite you again to talk about that.

speaker-0: So we're about halfway through the questions that I'd prepared and usually what we do is what we call our palate cleanser and just a bit of a reset for the episode before we dive into our next set of questions. So I've got three little quickies here. Number one, slusher groomers. I know the answer here, but I want to hear you.

speaker-1: ⁓ My two loves. The start of the winter all I care about is nice styrofoam corduroy but then I get really excited to just ride some selection spring. Like right now it is prime prime spring conditions and it's an absolute

speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, that surprises me a little bit. thought you were going to go directly to slush.

speaker-1: I'm having a lot of fun in the slush right now. It definitely It's yeah, it's probably always gonna have my heart

speaker-2: I think we can enjoy slush because we had all kinds of other conditions or seasonality is important. It wouldn't be a good season. Can you imagine an end of the season without slush? It's so much fun, but it would be weird to have slush at the start of the season. For example, this winter I had the opportunity to go to Korea mid-season and

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-2: It was like springtime, it was 10 degrees and we had, in some days it was eight, 10 degrees and we had some slush midwinter. That kind of me off balance a little bit. I was like, oh wow, slush midwinter, that's new, that's fun.

speaker-0: Yeah, usually slush back here in Quebec midwinter means it's gonna be rock hard bulletproof ice the next day, which is no one's favorite.

speaker-2: Yeah, that's when you wind down and you go or you wait until the afternoon. Or you just do eye turns, know, like eye turns until it gets slushy and you're good.

speaker-1: So I feel like the slush, a big part is the sun that comes with it. a nice, ⁓ The warmth after maybe a nice, winter.

speaker-0: True story. There's a lot of sensory stuff going on there. Cool. Next question. In this one, I asked your friend and colleague, Dom Smith, for a guest question and just slid perfectly into the palate cleansers. I know you're getting nervous now because...

speaker-2: Now I'm excited.

speaker-0: I'm getting nervous. to know your most interesting food experience.

speaker-1: It was actually my... It was my first day of my first trip. I came and I went with another guy, with a Sam. And went with some of his friends, went for hot pot, which has become my favorite meal by far. Good spicy hot pot, but wasn't quite sure what I was getting into. Next thing I know I was having pig brain, intestines, stomach, and just kind of... So why not just go with it? Try all every pieces we want and see what you like.

speaker-0: Nice. Well, good for you for being adventurous. started to turn up my lip a little bit at some of those and I I saw myself in the video and I got a paper to stop. to experience, got to experience the fullness. I think that's cool.

speaker-1: You only live once, you gotta try things.

speaker-0: Okay, third one, and this is a bit of a two-parter. I know you're a hack guy. What's your favorite Cassie hat of all time?

speaker-1: ⁓ I'm The gays ⁓ Five panel, just I'm a five-pound guy. So there's a bitch five panel and the new one The new black or gray ones has been kind of my favorite

speaker-0: Nice, choices. And then part two of this question, I went into, like I've known you for a long time, Cody, but I did a bit of a deep dive into your social media to see if I could dig up any other questions. I saw a number of photos of you wearing these like really wide brim hats. I just, don't know what to call it. I don't know what the deal is. I don't know when you wear a hat like that. Educate the people.

speaker-1: I still wear them sometimes. They're just a harder to travel with. It's almost like a nice fedora, almost kind of cowboy hat-y, but a bit more styled out. I don't know. I always felt it was nice. My hair can get a little out of hand sometimes. It's pretty curly, so at a warm wedding, I'm always a fan of having a hat and a baseball cap doesn't really fly or not acceptable.

speaker-0: That's the formal headwear. Okay, I got you.

speaker-2: Now I have to go and seek for what you describe. I'm not too sure I visualize it, but...

speaker-0: Yeah, maybe I'll have to pop a photo up onto the screen for the viewers.

speaker-2: That's a good idea.

speaker-1: Like a Stetson kind of style, like all round hats.

speaker-0: Looking real classy, it's good. Let's move on to our last little block of questions here. And a fun one I thought would be to dig into a day in the life of teaching in the Dome.

speaker-1: ⁓ the schedule it's, know, as we stay the same schedule, but it just starts a bit later. The domes don't open until like 10, 11, like 10, 10, 30. So most of the time I'll try to say like one Joe, I'll try to get up early, early, ⁓ and try to go for a run before it hits like 35, 40 degrees out. ⁓ sneak that in and go out and find some breakfast at a local. restaurant or stall on the way. Walk over right out of coffee. We go into the dome and we'll run on snow until probably one-ish. Then go back outside, which is always a bit of a shock to the system. And try to find some food in the mall or at a Watson's is always a bit of a good go for some good. pre-made meals and get back in. And then afterwards, we tend to finish at about five each day. And then we head out. If there's a couple of us, maybe stop for a beer at a little grocery store nearby or a little pub or something if we can find one. And then just grab some food and chill out. It can be long, we try to be outside and get sun as much as we can, just because being indoors all day, we just want to get some fresh air and feel the vitamin D after being inside with no UV, no natural light.

speaker-0: Yeah, that must be a lot to adjust to. And what's like the temperature swing typically? Like, is it like minus six, I think I heard in the dome pretty consistent?

speaker-1: Yeah, so it's minus six on the thermometer, it's hugely humid in there. So I think of like when you put your hand in a freezer, it's only like minus three, but it's really cold. So it feels like it's like minus 20 in there. I dress the same way I dress in January in the dome. So we go from that to yeah, like Guangzhou in the summer is plus 40 with crazy humidity. So it's a real... up and down swing on the system. We walk in in shorts, flip-flops, and a t-shirt, and then loading on multiple, multiple layers inside.

speaker-0: wild. Got to account for the extra time that's going to take for your lunch break. Yeah. down, get dressed back up.

speaker-1: It's always a bit funny walking around the mall in snowboard boots when there's people walking around in flip-flops and dresses and shorts and stuff and you're mows around in snow pants. ⁓

speaker-0: talked a little bit about the ⁓ environmental factors teaching in the Dome. ⁓ This next question kind of applies to any of your work overseas. What's it like working with the translator? How does that affect your delivery? How does that affect the course content and all that? Changes the length of the course?

speaker-1: With the translated courses, we add an extra day to it, just because it just takes that bit longer to communicate. Because I say something, I stop, my translator then has to say it. And it's that same way with any feedback or questioning conversation. ⁓ Each translator is different. You kind of just feel the rhythm with them. You start feeling it. I found it, it's really helped my communication and my delivery on courses because I've become really purposeful in how I communicate because every extra word or thing can make it a bit more complicated for them. And you also can, you're thinking ahead a lot more because you have that kind of to think before you then say the next. sentence or batch. So you can be really deliberate. I've really enjoyed how it's helped me develop as an evaluator.

speaker-0: ⁓ That's really cool. We have the freedom here in Canada to ramble a little bit, which is not a good thing. So that's a really cool skill that you've been almost forced to develop. ⁓ Then you can, I'm sure, bring that back to your English and French courses that you're delivering.

speaker-1: Yeah, you find ways of communicating in other ways as well. A lot of non-verbal sometimes, sometimes just providing feedback, a point in the, hey, just get the message across pretty well. Yeah.

speaker-0: Bend your ankles is easy to say without having to say anything, Point and flex. Well, nice. Jen, it looked like you were kind of gearing up to add something there.

speaker-2: It was just, I had the same experience as Cody and I always ⁓ tell the evaluators that, and it's the same in Canada, but this really working with translator forces you to stick to the need to know and avoid kind of the good to know parts because you don't necessarily have the time. even in our regular courses, that's what we are proning and forcing our evaluator to do. ⁓ like the context of the translation really forces you to apply this and make like each of each of your speaking additions or any words you're adding really needs to be valuable and add value to the content and the course presentation. So that's a cool skill that those evaluators working internationally can develop for sure. Even if it's not translated courses, because there's the language barrier that Even if they understand English, it would be their second language and that's part of the challenges sometimes, like making sure to stay really concise so it's understood better.

speaker-0: Yeah, I'm just kind of thinking like, you know, you can't confirm that what the translator is saying or even the way it's being understood on the other end is correct. So the more concise we can be, ⁓ the more sure you're going to know that it's being like delivered accurately, right? For consistency across the board.

speaker-2: But those are some of the conversation I had with evaluators and what I experienced myself as well as you have to have like a good communication with the translator, like a good exchange, like constant exchange, but also you can ⁓ pick up lots of the stuff by just watching, you like you'll see in the face of the candidates how they react and how they absorb the information. you know, what are they going to do next? You know, if they start moving when they're supposed to start moving right away, that means they understood that's a like a pretty basic example, but you'll see it like it's the same when you observe a practice of session or lesson from the outside, you can totally see if it's going well. Like you're picking up like more of the bigger picture, the flow of the lesson, like some of the stuff that you need to see also as an evaluator. I think that highlights a lot of that ⁓ experience.

speaker-1: Yeah, there's, I was going to just add to that. There's a lot of nonverbal that you can pick up. I have some translators joke sometimes like, sure you don't speak Mandarin? Cause I'll just be like, no, no, okay. They did class management. That was safety. They're doing this. How do know that? I can see it. can physically just see what are they doing? How are they giving to me back? And the more time you spend, start picking up phrasing. know how long things should take. things sound like and I know a lot of what the skills and competencies should set like the words should sound like most of the time. So I can pick up a lot of what's happening without having to actually have it be relayed back.

speaker-0: That's really cool. ⁓ So Jen, question for you, ⁓ sort of bouncing off that last one is a little bit more on like the cultural side of things, having taught in, well, you can list the countries you've taught in and sort of what you've experienced ⁓ in the way, ⁓ well, in any sort of cultural way is different than what we're used to seeing here in Canada.

speaker-2: Well, would say that definitely those, it's kind of linked to what we just said, but those cultural differences that we experience on courses are really enriching. Can I say that? They're rich for the experience, both for the evaluators and the client. There's definitely always an exchange and any cultural exchanges, right? And they're also challenging at the meantime because it's... ⁓ it's good opportunities for the evaluator staff, especially to adapt to their clients, to their people in the group. ⁓ the jokes that they are probably doing in their modern language is not the same. It's not the same humor. It's not necessarily the exact same vibe, even though we're speaking one language that is snowboarding, ⁓ to get the message across and be a... as fun or provide the same experience will require a little bit more of adaptability from the evaluators for sure. And I think ⁓ that's part of the reason why a lot of our evaluators really like that experience. It would be the same really when you teach anywhere, like even in Canada, we have ⁓ different people from different communities, ethnic communities that are taking courses and it does provide the same kind of adaptation from our. from our evaluators. ⁓ yeah, I would say that speaking kind of sum it up with the cultural differences. I would take it as it's very enriching for the people. don't know, maybe Cody, you can add ⁓ anything that you've experienced about this.

speaker-1: And what, as you said really well there, it's, we're all just sharing the same culture of snowboarding. Everyone's there because they love the ride. The snowboard culture in China is booming and everyone loves it. Every once in a while, there's little things like, you know, referencing Garland. Right? Not everyone knows what a Garland is. I didn't, I couldn't remember what it was when he called it Garland. Not the most Christmasy decoration kind of guy. So it's just. maybe changing certain referencing for in that way to help understand and help communicate something. But most the time we're just standing sideways. So that's the shared culture.

speaker-0: Bouncing off the Garland example, we were talking offline before we started and another one of the examples Cody that you gave was J-Turns. I thought that one was really interesting because not every language has a J in it. So he said, OK, we're going to do a J-Turns. But people don't know what that shape is. So kind of some ways to adapt that one.

speaker-1: Yeah, like exactly sometimes like I I don't want to be someone to assume that you know lot of people here can read English but I'm not going to make that assumption sometimes so that's all I I'll use more of a fish hook and I'll use stairs for garland just to kind of help that visual and get that kind of idea across. Just like how with candidates sometimes right you got to change maybe how we will phrase something or connect to something that they're comfortable with and understand already, whether it's a different sport or something, it's just finding that common reference point to help get the message.

speaker-2: Yeah, and sometimes it's about like defining that reference point through the course and it might change from one group to the other. And again, it kind of can come back to what teaching is all about. It's always an exchange and a learning opportunity between the instructor and the group.

speaker-0: So Cody, what would you say to an evaluator back here in Canada who's considering ⁓ making the leap to teaching internationally?

speaker-1: I'd say do it. It's, it's really rewarding. ⁓ get to meet a lot of different people. But I also say that this is true for all instructing, but just be open for it to be adaptable. Like not everything's going to run on time. Chairless might not run when you think they're going to run. You know, there's going to be maybe a lot of people like it's just having to be adaptable. It's just being ready to change and slow with what's happening around you. and just be open and prepared for that. But it's also, as I said, like it's really fun to see the different perspectives and just how much that shared passion is all around the world.

speaker-0: Yeah, I mean a lot of what you just shared there is consistent with what we would deal with on a regular basis here in Canada, right? Like chairlifts don't run. What are going to do? You got to, you know, bounce around and figure it out. So it sounds like probably that, but like on a higher level when you don't speak the language. But I guess you have a translator with you.

speaker-1: Yeah, well, you don't always have one, but yeah, it's just, it's being open to what's going on and you know, it's, yeah, it's just, it's just every country is going to be different. And like, we sit there and go, ⁓ that's, that doesn't make sense to me, but a lot of things that we do back home don't make sense to there, to another country. it's how do we just kind of go with it and, know, getting frustrated isn't going to fix a problem. So it's might as well take a breath and then, all right, what's next? How do I figure it out? Where do I go? What do do? I'd say maybe be really prepared for class management because the domes can get a little hectic. A lot of people, but I don't know. It's a snowball.

speaker-0: Jen, so one of the many hats you wear is managing or selecting the team that travels abroad to teach courses. What are some of the things that ⁓ you're looking for when you're assigning or giving people the green light to go and work internationally?

speaker-2: Yeah, for sure. Well, the first thing, Cody mentioned it, like adaptable. We're definitely looking for people that are adaptable, but what means to be adaptable is also being ⁓ autonomous, ⁓ independent, and liking to spend some time alone probably would be a good skill to have for evaluators, especially Cody was mentioning the length of time it took him to travel over there. So you need to figure out some of the things out of your way in your own way. ⁓ the ICPs are usually pretty good to support and provide everything that's necessary for the evaluators to travel. But as in any travel, you got to like to travel and deal with some of the things that. surprisingly happen or the change in schedule or you know, like all of the things that comes with traveling. I think like, enjoying traveling would be a good one and enjoying being away from home as well. It's not for everybody. Like there are some people that that likes to be away for a long time, but it comes with challenges. ⁓ So sometimes you, you kind of have to, to know that before you're going to work. It's like ⁓ to work abroad. It's a, professional skills for sure to to maintain. ⁓ Being trustworthy is a really big one. Trustworthy in terms of being consistent with the project and presenting the project in the way that would be presented in Canada. There's something to say, and we could say the same thing about working in remote areas of our country. ⁓ When you work more remotely, you don't necessarily... I'll have all of the peers. It's not every time that you have many Cassie peers around to either support, also watch and be there for you to help if in case you have any question, but also like respecting the program is a big thing. Like not starting to get to do like your whole little thing and making sure that you're really representing Cassie the way we're expecting our evaluators to be. that's like a big, big one in terms of ⁓ in my role. ⁓ So yeah, those are the big qualities that I'm looking for. And also I would add on top of that, like being open to reach out when they need help is a quality for me. ⁓ So they have people that they can speak to that they refer on the first place when they work for an ICP, because they work for the ICP and they don't work for CASI. but they're representing CASI. So if there's something with the product or something with, you know, like the presentation or challengers or something, they should be ⁓ comfortable to reach out directly to us and get the support that they need. And that's a big one. And the evaluators over there, we have a pretty good system in place of communication where I feel that ⁓ everybody is comfortable to reach out and get the support when they need it. That's been pretty awesome.

speaker-0: Nice. And ⁓ prerequisites. Do we want to dig into that a little bit?

speaker-2: The prerequisites were requiring evaluators to be ⁓ level two evaluators. So they have an experience teaching level two courses in Canada. So they can have their name on the international list and they can be ⁓ approved and then hired to teach for our different ICPs. With the association growing, we're allowing evaluators to develop abroad. it's a bit of a different process for the apprenticeship program. They still have to apply to become an evaluator. They'll get mentoring, but they'll be allowed to develop, you know, if they're not a level two evaluator, if they're starting their rookie process, they'll be allowed to develop with under only one ICP. And those are the things that ⁓ they need to plan for it. have a good... ⁓ It's a bit of a case by case, like we have like a good development plan in place. We speak with the ICP, we make sure that they get the mentor supports that's required to be trained properly. So there could be level one evaluators teaching for one ICP, but in this case, they're not allowed to go and teach to other ⁓ ICPs until they become... like experience level to evaluators similar as in Canada. There's less people doing that because it takes a little bit more steps and time. Yeah, so most of the evaluators develop in Canada.

speaker-0: So we're on the home stretch here. Just a few more questions and we've dug into the harder hitting ones and we'll kind of lighten it up as we cruise to the finish line here. What's your favorite part of the program, Cody?

speaker-1: I touched on it a bit before, but one of my favorite parts is just getting to meet different evaluators and different people kind of all over the place. I've gotten to meet some pretty interesting people, whether it's other evaluators. I've gotten to meet also just different individuals in different places I've been. I one Joe I've met, a Welsh school teacher who's been in China for 12 plus years teaching English. But then also, Again, I keep going back to it, but just showing how much people love snowboarding here and the Stokes. But also something that I find really interesting here is just kind of, it's a bit strange to say, but the freedom of kind of different styles that everyone has. Like whether it's fashion choices, like all the suits in different brands, it's always really awesome to see such different kind of like ideas. And then. Kind of the love for all sorts of different carving and they, I know if you've ever seen online the ground trick stuff, where guys are doing like flat plan fives and sevens, like popping in the air and spinning a seven. It's some of the most impressive stuff I've ever seen on a snowboard.

speaker-0: That's cool. So you've really broadened your network. I mean, that's what what travel is all about, right? Just seeing what people are doing around the world and their take on something that we hold really close to our hearts here in Canada, but seeing it done differently. That's, that's a really unique opportunity that you get to have by doing what you're doing. So that's really rad.

speaker-2: feel that like to this question, my favorite part of the program is that it makes the world feels very small in a way. Snowboarding culture is as connected us to like the other parts of the world in a way where it's, yeah. Like if I reflect back on when I was a teenager or student and like thinking about my future and where I was, what I was gonna do and stuff like, you know, leaving. traveling in Europe for years seemed a lot bigger than it is right now. And I know like I'm not teaching anybody here, we all know that, but it's like a very tangible way in our professional industry to realize that, that, you know, like I'm friends with people all over the world and it's awesome.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's so rad, snowboarding, bringing people together. Cody, I mentioned in your intro that you're doing 150 plus days a season, ⁓ but I was scrolling Instagram this morning and there's something that you often do is put in your number, your tally for the season and it was 140 today. So I think my number's wrong. You're going to clear 150, no problem.

speaker-1: I had 140 today and I was thinking about it as I was looking at kind of my schedule for the rest of this trip and I think I'm gonna hit about 170 175 days.

speaker-0: Okay, well, I wasn't so far off then. What is the start of your calendar? When do you start counting?

speaker-1: So I struggled with that for a little while. And yeah, I based it off of the Cassie reset day of Juniper.

speaker-0: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. your dues June 1st and that's when you see the...

speaker-1: I guess that's what it does. It doesn't really stop me at this point. So I just kind of went. I guess this is where my start points can be, because I got asked how many days I did the season. I don't know when to consider the start.

speaker-2: Hey, don't you miss the summer sometimes? When, ⁓ you know, like you were born in a country when there's four seasons with like big seasonal change throughout the year. And I know like back to back season, it's, I know you're coming back and you're leaving. So you have a bit of that balance, but is that, is that enough for you? Like sometimes it must be hard. It must be one of the challenges you face.

speaker-1: Yeah, there's definitely challenges. I I missed fall this year completely, which I love. ⁓ but like we still get the summer months pretty hot, but when I'm home, I really try to just take advantage of being home. So since I leave and work really hard for a period of time, when I get home, I just try to break. I just don't work. And I, I spend as much time outside on my bike, as much time swimming. trying to be outside and take advantage of every second I can while I'm home. Yeah, it can be a challenge sometimes to be away for those long periods of time. At the same time, I'm privileged enough to be able to do this and do what I love to do for a living full time. So if the small price I pay is missing some seasons, it's exactly I'm willing to make.

speaker-0: Yeah, that's interesting. Missing fall completely. It's such a dear season to Canadian snowboarders, Because that's when the anticipation builds. You're starting to see a little snow on the ground. It's really exciting. The smell of the fallen leaves in the forest, it's a pretty special time of year. ⁓ It's funny that you asked this question, Jen. because I added it to our list after I sent it to you already. And my question is going to be to Cody, what are you most looking forward to when you get back to Tramla this summer? ⁓ But I'm to pivot the question a little bit because he kind of already answered it. We do a weekly Tuesday night ride in Tramla called the Mildsey Bike. And I spend a lot of time with those rides with Cody and ⁓ it usually happens. You know, right after you get back from China, and I don't know how many times I've heard people ask you, ⁓ you just got back from China. How was that? Do you ever get tired of telling that story? Or have you figured out a way to like, tell it quickly and move on?

speaker-1: Yeah, I've always, I've gotten a couple, it's my favorite one. Well, it always makes me laugh. I get a lot of how was Japan? Because everyone thinks I'm there and I quite often have to correct. No, I was in China. But yeah, it's normally just kind of like, it's more about, yeah, this time I was here and I got to do this really cool thing. Whatever new adventure kind of field trip. I figure that could go on in front of my days off. It's more of always referencing like what cool new little adventure I got.

speaker-0: like paragliding.

speaker-1: Yeah, like I've, I've had some pretty cool ones. went, ⁓ I went paragliding in Chengdu. Last year I went and watched one of my best friends in old college, she works for world athletics and they were having a huge championship event in Guangzhou happens then just happened to be there at the same time as me. So I went and watched and sat in the VIP with like top government officials. I had to go buy nice clothes that I don't travel with dress pants and a dress shirt.

speaker-2: You don't travel with a suit and a tie.

speaker-1: Yeah. Snowboard suit, different one. It's black, but it's not safe. Went on a crazy kind of water park adventure last year with Sam. Another aviator that's been out here. gone to Chinese amusement parks. We've done. Yeah. Got to the pandas as I referenced before. Like it's always just kind of trying to find what new thing I've heard about. What's fun is since we spend time, since we're there for like six weeks, we don't just get that like tourist, I'm here for a week experience. You kind of get really a bit more ingrained in what's going on around. Like some of the local restaurants near all the staying, they'll be like, they know what I like to eat because they'll be like, they see me enough. What's my coffee order? And you can start meeting people and hearing about, there's this really cool market, you know, this place, or you can find these little adventures.

speaker-2: So you have like a little bit of a routine outside of your own base and it becomes your home base for a little while. And I think that that kind of ties back to liking to travel and being adaptable. Cause it sounds dreamy when you hear about it all. And it's definitely dreamy for a lot of people, but it's also challenging in other parts of life where it's, ⁓ well, we touch on the seasonality of things, but. I'm sure it's not always easy on families and relationships and things like that. Those are probably some of the challenges that you put in the balance before you make your yearly decisions. ⁓ Not to get too deep into that because it's more personal, those are some of the underlaying things with those working abroad decisions, whether it's in snowboarding or anything else.

speaker-1: Yeah, I'm really lucky. My girlfriend, she's a saint for dealing with me sometimes for many reasons, but she it's a discussion that her and I have and it's, you know, it's is tough sometimes being away and missing things and missing birthdays and just being away. Yeah, to make a real conscious effort to ensure that we communicate and stay in touch and kind of you know, prioritize the strength of our relationship while I'm there. I'm also lucky I don't have kids. ⁓ But then as well, you like we plan a lot of, I kind of schedule everything around, you know, important dates and like last year, the reason I missed fall was instead of coming home for a period of time, she flew out and she met me. and we spent a week in Hong Kong and two weeks in Taiwan. And our idea is to do something similar this year. We're trying to figure out when and where we go. Throwing around the idea of biking around Taiwan or doing some visiting around different parts of China.

speaker-0: It's amazing what a little simple thing like snowboarding the world can open up for you that you did not, I'm sure, foresee when you jumped on a board at the age of nine or whatever you were.

speaker-1: been pretty lucky between competing and instructing. I've been able to visit a lot of the world, meet a lot of cool people, and see a lot of cool places. Snowboarding's done a lot for me, and I'll always be grateful for what standing sideways has allowed me to do in my life.

speaker-0: Yeah, it just gives me a little bit of a shiver. I say this a lot, like it's so cool when it extends beyond sport, you know, like we can all share this emotion that snowboarding is a bit of our way of life. It's attached to our identity. Snowboarding is the vehicle that gives us all these rich experiences in our lives that we're so fortunate to be able to work in this industry full time. you know, in your case, travel a lot and see a lot of the world. Pretty amazing thing. Pretty awesome way to wrap up the podcast. would say, ⁓ Cody, what's next for you? You're in China for a little bit longer and then you're headed back to Canada for a bit.

speaker-1: Yeah, I've got a couple more days here running things up until basically when the mountain closes in, ⁓ 13 days and then into Guangzhou for a couple of weeks and then yeah, come home for a month and a half and then come back and kind of do that back and forth through the summer months until the snow on the ground and trauma and start all over again.

speaker-0: And then repeat. Well, to our listeners, thank you again so much for tuning in and hearing another one of the stories from our diverse membership. It's been really cool to have you on board on this dropping next podcast endeavor that we're on. Be sure to drop us a review. Let us know what you think of the show. We do have an email address that we've been. trying to get out there into the world, podcast at cassie-acms.com. Anything you'd like to hear us talk about, any feedback on the show, be sure to reach out. We'd love to hear from you. ⁓ Cody, thanks so much. I know you got a birthday coming up. Happy birthday in advance. And thanks for coming on the show. Jen, thank you for having my back in the co-hosting seat. Thanks, to everyone else, we'll see you in two weeks.

speaker-1: Thanks for watching!

speaker-2: Ciao.