Jessie Naor: Good morning and welcome back to the VIP seat. We have Nepal medevac scammers and other topics today. Sit back, buckle up and let's take off. All right, Preston, so this is not like US business aviation centric, but this is a pretty crazy story. apparently trekkers and guides in Nepal, know, people going to climb Mount Everest ⁓ apparently scamming insurance companies for many, many millions of dollars.

Preston Holland: Yeah, it is relevant because helicopters are kind of Jessie's purview and understanding of these things. yeah, so big and airplanes. Yeah, but I think that like the helicopters like the big thing, basically, like, the whole idea is that you're an Everest explorer, and you're climbing the mountain and you get into a sticky situation. And you have to make the call Do I medevac or do I you know, just kind of climb down?

Jessie Naor: And airplanes. Yeah.

Preston Holland: And they are defaulting medevac. it's like, but but not only are they defaulting medevac, doctors are paying commissions to helicopter companies. Like there's whole it's like a giant scam ring, which is pretty crazy. ⁓ And it's and it's not a few dollars. It's like 18 to $20 million US dollars over years. Pretty crazy.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, and apparently this is not the first time that there's been a big government report. This happened in 2018 as well, and like a 700 page document was created by the Nepalese investigation bureau or whatever it is, trying to curb the behavior, but apparently it hasn't stopped. And in some cases, it is as simple as. a trekker going up to the mount, or the top of the mountain, and then to get back down takes you two to three weeks. And some people are just tired and the tour guides kind of say, hey, like you should just like pretend that you're sick and then you'll get the helicopter out of here and they do it that way. But in more nefarious cases, some of these involve like baking soda in people's food and them ⁓ anti-altitude medications and making them over hydrate, like some really crazy stuff.

Preston Holland: Yeah, mean, you know, insurance fraud is a real thing. And, know, you when you travel overseas, there's a lot of nuance to like what your insurance covers and what it does and things like that. But typically, people who are submitting Everest are people of means. mean, it's like it's pretty expensive to climb Mount Everest. Like you're not, you know, the average going to decide to climb Mount Everest. So it's really advantage of, know, insurance payouts and ⁓ kind of high net worth people and creating this whole scam. think it's fake, like you said, I think it's the fake rescues. Now, if the people are gonna do it themselves, like that's a bad choice, ⁓ but making a bad choice. If it's like the guides making the choice for them and then they're getting kickbacks on it, like that's where there's a giant problem.

Jessie Naor: Yeah. Yeah, and it's the whole system too. So apparently what will happen is, you know, maybe someone agrees to medevac and then the helicopter company will load a couple people on the helicopter and then charge each person as if they were on a single flight. So they're defrauding the insurance companies. there's so many layers of this. There's the doctors that are like giving suggestions to the trek guides on how to make sure that they seem sick enough to qualify for the insurance. It's a mess altogether. And the key here is that you're supposed to call your insurance company before the Medevac to decide whether or not you're authorized to do that. But when you're on Mount Everest, of communication completely, things just go awry and people do whatever they want to do.

Preston Holland: Yeah, and I think it's to, you know, one thing to note is that basically it's base camp. Like you're not getting all the way to the summit to go pull somebody out. Like it's at base camp they come and pick you up. and sometimes you can get to camp too, if it's like not windy and not snowing and all of that. apparently this was an interesting kind of fun fact in 2005, a specialty prepared Eurocopter AS 350 B3, made a summit landing.

Jessie Naor: Yeah.

Preston Holland: with zero payload, basically to say we can do it, obviously you can't do it with passengers or with weight or anything. You can't actually pick somebody up there. But crazy that this is all going on.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, the air gets pretty thin up on that mountain.

Preston Holland: Yeah, no kidding. Well, I guess is good time to go into mile high madness because this is literally mile high madness with miles high madness ⁓ with ⁓ several miles high But mine related. There is, I know if anybody listening is a golf fan, ⁓ but there's a little event going on week called the Masters and there's a lot of news coming out. may or may not have a little bit of exciting things coming up. Just gonna tease that.

Jessie Naor: Several miles.

Preston Holland: around the Masters, but my Mile High madness is this post from X. Patrick Reed has a new front of hat sponsor for the Masters, saying that he signed on as an ambassador for VistaJet. And I want to point out in this Mile High madness, congratulations, Patrick Reed, that's awesome. You have a VistaJet hat. There's a lot of sponsorships for private aviation. Another notable one, Justin Rose, who came runner up last year. He's got three runners up actually. So he's kind of favored to win this year. is a fly house. He's sponsored by fly house. But I think the economics of these private aviation and golfer relationships often get, I everybody just assumes, ⁓ yeah, net jets fly Scotty around for free all year. And the reality is, is that's not actually how it works. It's usually like a discount on a certain number of hours and then you have to pay full board price. And what lot of golfers do is they then after they use their cheap flights, then they go ad hoc and they kind of use a trade broker.

Jessie Naor: I don't know. mean, I think it depends on the level of celebrity. Maybe there's cases like that. But I will tell you, I was in negotiations with some football players ⁓ years ago. ⁓ the amount of money that they wanted just to put the name ⁓ the brand was ⁓ to me. like, I just could not make the ROI work, maybe if we were a large retail consumer brand. But I get paying someone a million dollars just to show up on your airplane one time.

Preston Holland: Yeah, no kidding. Well, and it's like there's an in-kind piece to it and then a cash piece to it. But a lot of times from what I hear kind of through the grapevine is they will take the in-kind hours and then not going to get like, ⁓ some people like, ⁓ I'll get the in-kind hours and then I'll get the retail hours above that. And I'll kind of make up the Delta there. And these guys savvy. Like ⁓ they'll use your hours and then they're out. Like they're going to do something else, like something else awfully. Now there's some exceptions to that, right? Like There's a few that are loyal I've heard of, but I think kind of in aggregate, people assume that if NetJets shows up on a shirt, that NetJets is just comp hours ⁓ whole nine yards. ⁓ doesn't really work that way.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, definitely not. right, so mine this week is a little bit funnier because I tend to like the stupid stuff on the internet. Okay, so mine this week is RFK Jr. teaching people how to brief an approach blade. The ILS runway one zero approach, the material capital, TVZ. For now, you'll want to start with the information in the box here.

Preston Holland: This is so painful.

Jessie Naor: And it goes on. It's a great impression. And I just thought it was hilarious. I'll link it in the comments if everyone wants to go follow that page. The impressions like on the internet these days are amazing. I see so many of the Kamalas, the trumps, all the other ones. Like it's great content. Keep it coming.

Preston Holland: Yeah, no, they are. The RFK ones are really good. The Trump ones are really good. Anytime I hear RFK, like I listen to RFK on the Joe Rogan podcast and the whole time I'm, I was driving the car and I'm like clearing my throat actively. And I'm like, I clearing my throat so much? And then I'm like, Oh, it's because I'm hearing him and it sounds like he needs to clear his throat. Like it's, it's like, it's almost painful to listen to him talk.

Jessie Naor: ⁓ we move on to our next segment.

Preston Holland: And here's RFK talking about the next topic. we have got to bring out the infamous tiny M&A gong and we need to ring it for Atlantic Aviation. Congratulations. You're traded You're going to a new home after having doubled in value. Private equity doing its thing again. It was leaked. And I think that the leak caused a lot of people to have to comment on it. Like I think the leak was not on purpose.

Jessie Naor: Mm-hmm.

Preston Holland: And then there's a lot of follow on, like official commentary. But apparently Aviation is about to trade for an alleged $10 billion. So crazy.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, that's absolutely wild to me because they're not even the largest FBO chain. think with Signature probably is with 200 plus. But talking about a company that was bought at the time. Let's see, that was five years ago for less than $5 billion. And we're talking about $10 billion. I'm sure there's been a lot of reinvestment in things and expansion during that time. But wow, what a win for KKR. ⁓

Preston Holland: funny you should ask. I did a dig on how much they actually did, because I was wondering the same thing. I was like, okay, five billion to 10 billion, like that's a lot of growth, how much of it was inorganic. I went and pulled, and this is the stuff that like, got talked about. I think that there was some stuff that really didn't get too public about it. But in they bought FBO chain, which added nine locations. In 2002, Ross Aviation plus three more TAC Air FBOs, which I think included Knoxville, which is the largest business, the largest business combination from like a dollar amount, opened a new FBO at IAD after winning an RFP, a major expansion, facility expansion at Fort Lauderdale exec and Nashville, then Glacier Jet Center and Rocky Mountain Air Center or AS in 2025, Jet Center at Santa Fe. and ExecuJet ⁓ FBO, then Aviation, which is in Bermuda, which is new. So there is expansion that they did, but those numbers don't say that they added $5 billion of inorganic growth. There's a ton of organic growth in there too.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this just goes back to when we had Nick Faziolli on just recently. just love this infrastructure stuff. Investors, there's so many more people out in the market for it. And is one of the biggest out there. But what an unbelievable price tag. Look, it hasn't taken place officially. So we're kind of prematurely ringing the gong. But it seems like it's going to happen.

Preston Holland: Yeah. Yeah. And 10 billion dollars is like, it's a hard number to really wrap your mind around. I think the interesting thing about Apollo recently is like they've got some, like Apollo is not just these infrastructure plays, like they have multi vertical, right? So as you talk about like moving up the stack with, Apollo's got a big private credit fund. They've got a lot of other stuff. KKR is apparently going to roll a lot of their equity into the new deal. So they still have conviction. about the deal. They still have conviction about the play, the infrastructure play. it's Apollo and GIC who would then take control. And I mean, look, you have Signature, you have Shelter, you have a lot of these companies that have taken on this private equity. I mean, $10 billion, mean, it had a billion dollars of debt when it transacted for five. I have no idea how much debt it's got on now, but it's probably a lot. ⁓ To hit a hurdle rate, like what, the next time it's going to have to

Jessie Naor: Mm-hmm.

Preston Holland: trade for like 15 billion? that's, I don't know. Like that's, at what point do you run out of FBOs? yeah.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, but they're hanging on to it. They like it. Yeah, well, I mean, that's ultimately, that's always how private equity deals happen. It's like everyone goes after like all the big dogs and then eventually there's no one left to go after and you have to start doing smaller and smaller deals. But this is one of the few in our space that's actually so substantially insanely large. But reports, and again, this is just reports. We don't really know until the deal comes out, but they're saying that this could deliver 15 times the original equity investment that KKR put into it. It was just, man, good for them.

Preston Holland: Man, on that much money is just insane. How do you get exposure to that? That's like, yeah, I mean, it would be like, it's like, how I as a retail investor get exposure to that? I don't know if I can. ⁓ I think I'm in that class.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, and that's why private equity is so popular. I don't... Nope, nope, we, none of us are, unfortunately. It's just the big, big bankers making all this money and squeezing the operators with their landing fees, unfortunately.

Preston Holland: Yeah, no kidding. mean, speaking of landing fees, mean, Augusta next week or this week is going to be crazy. I mean, it's like, did you see, by the way, note about FBOs, did you see NetJets opened a new FBO at Augusta? And they're like, this not a master's play. And I'm like, yes, it is. Like, it's okay. You can say ⁓ we only doing this for the masters. Like, it's okay. They're like, well, ⁓ it's investment into the Augusta community. And I'm like, yeah, but I would imagine that

Jessie Naor: Yeah, why not?

Preston Holland: this makes up for 90 % of the traffic into Augusta, like each year, it's gotta be close. So no, ⁓ it's...

Jessie Naor: Mm-hmm. Yeah, two things can be true at once. So, yeah.

Preston Holland: Yeah, exactly. to next story, we have a safety story. So this is Jessie's favorite topic. We are talking about circle to land approaches and Jessie's going to take us to school on what this means and what the FAA is now saying about it.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, so General Aviation Joint Steering Committee, GAJSC or something like that, I don't know how to say it. It's a very important group that works with the industry, that with ASIAS data, which is all the databases where we're putting safety information and the FAA. They recently released a report about circling approaches, which to most pilots listening to the show, they're all familiar with that. They all know what the problems are with it. So I'll try to just communicate why it matters to passengers, brokers, everybody else. Essentially, ASIAS data is showing there are some significant issues with certain airports such as Teterboro, Palwaukee Van Nuys. There's about 12 or 13 that are targeted in this report. But the NTSB is not new to this. Circling approaches have resulted in 17 fatalities from 2008 to 2023. So it's kind of like, it is one of our last really bad safety risks that are out there. So ASSIA and FAA and this committee, they're recommending the operators really pay attention to these airports. Maybe if you're doing a safety management system, putting a little more. cautious alerts in there when you're actually planning these trips and to brokers and other people booking them, airports could have these issues. So what is a circling approach? Really quick, simple explanation, not getting into pilot stuff. But essentially when you get into an airport, you have all these systems that guide you in. If it's GPS, VOR, all the other stuff that happens, but you're guided not only where you're in any space, it's three dimensions, right? You're guided by lateral space, vertical height above the ground, all these different things. And that is usually how airplanes land. only do precision approaches. They know exactly where they're supposed to be whenever they're supposed to be there. In business aviation, our airports are a little different, sometimes a little more challenging. ⁓ look at places like Teterboro, ⁓ winds change often. There's a lot of traffic. So sometimes we get into situations where we have a non-precision approach, which means we don't have that pre-prescribed height to destination, all those different pieces of the puzzle that come together. And circling to land is one of these situations where you think you're going to land somewhere, then changes, winds change, and you have to kind of cancel your plan and do something different. That's where all the safety risk comes in, is that you have more burden on the pilot to make decisions. It's not as prescribed. You get an unstable approach, which means you're just not on the target that you thought you were going to be onto. But we're finding that this is a really, this is a big hazard, and operators and brokers need to be a little more cautious and understanding when, you know, missed approaches or certain things happen on these airfields.

Preston Holland: And are these circling approaches that they're referring to, is it primarily weather driven or is it traffic driven? Like what's the what's kind of the big driver here?

Jessie Naor: It can be things. think for airports specifically on this list, like Teterboro, like Palwaukee, it's really driven or weather driven in Chicago. It just depends on day. But we know that these particular fields with just how they're set up in the system, the busyness that's around them, not business aviation traffic, but also the commercial traffic that sets you up for a little higher risk environment sometimes.

Preston Holland: Gotcha. No, that's interesting. is it, guess, is it air traffic control that's ⁓ you through this maneuver or like, it, you're saying pilot, like obviously the pilots have to have decisions, but I'm ATC is the one who's kind of walking, you know, getting you through this approach. It's like, at what point do they kind of hand you off and say, Hey, you know, it's on you now it's visual.

Jessie Naor: Yeah. Well, yeah, mean, part of it's visual, also, I mean, that's one of the things they're telling pilots in these situations. Like you don't have to accept this just because ATC needs to move you there. It creates a lot of pressure on pilots. Go, oh, okay, I guess I can figure it out last minute. I can do it. But that's one of the recommendations here is like, look, air traffic control is not the one flying your airplane. And if you're in this situation and you feel like it's too much workload, just, you know, do something else, you know, go plan another approach from another runway. But unfortunately, we're not going to be able to eliminate it completely because sometimes there's just no There's no other way to get into the field.

Preston Holland: Interesting. Now that was great. That is really interesting. I learned something today. Yeah, ⁓ mean, I think that it's a it's an interesting. It's interesting nuance that I think not a lot of people in the industry pay a lot of attention to from a sage standpoint. And so understanding a little bit of that, ⁓ I smarter now.

Jessie Naor: Thank Mm-hmm. Yeah, and too, this is the whole thing is that, you know, there's all these arguments between, you know, the brokers and the operators and the pilots. Ultimately, the pilots, the one flying the plane in the front. And sometimes it's these technical things that none of us understand as well as they do that you need to be a little more sensitive to. And just because one airplane got in that airport 10 minutes earlier doesn't mean the winds didn't change or the controller gave, you know, a totally different traffic. prescription, know, just be a little more understanding because this stuff is very technical and pilots are dealing with all these pressures too. They're not necessarily trying to screw up your trip.

Preston Holland: Yeah, no, no, very interesting. Well, moving to the next story, a win for business aviation and even general aviation on this one in the state of Washington. Basically, there was a proposed 10 % luxury tax, which is like just, you know, rich guy tax, right? That was supposed to go ⁓ into effect April 1st. on top of the already 10 % sales and use tax. like it was above and beyond and on aircraft $500,000 and up. it's like. Cirrus mean, pretty much everything minus like old bonanzas. and so basically NBAA along with, the Pacific Northwest business aviation association and a bunch of others got together and got this And they said, okay, instead we're just going to push a little bit more fuel tax.

Jessie Naor: everything.

Preston Holland: but we're not going to come after luxury tax and the aircraft. ⁓ think this would have been really bad for a of people. ⁓ The Amazon flight department, entire... Nike's in Oregon. There's another one that's in Washington.

Jessie Naor: Microsoft, I mean, ⁓ ⁓ Amazon, yeah, not Microsoft, sorry, that's California, I think it's Amazon. ⁓

Preston Holland: Starbucks, that's right. Yep. Yeah, there's a lot of them. Jeff, it would have been bad for old Jeff. Bezos, yeah. No, Microsoft's in, there is a Microsoft presence in Seattle. Nvidia has some presence up there, funny enough. So yeah, it would have been really bad. It's interesting, I actually have a client who I'm trying, I'm gonna decide how much I actually say.

Jessie Naor: All right, yep.

Preston Holland: I have a client who has some nexus up there in the Northwest. And if you live close to a border, there's some strategic advantages you can take about where you're basing your airplane because of a lot of this taxes. And I think this would have just amplified that significantly there's, especially there in that corner of the country, there's a lot of this type of, I'm trying to be politically sensitive and correct. ⁓ There's a of this bullshit that goes on. in kind of that part of the country. Okay. And I am glad to see that, you know, at least at least we got to avoid this 10 % because on like a $10 million airplane, that's a ton has a ton of money.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, and it was specifically going after like part 91. It wasn't supposed to impact part 135, but like everything else, if the tax collector can find a way, they're going to try. And that's what, you know, all of these stories come from is that there's some local politician who wants to raise the tax base. And there's a lot of people who love the eat the rich, you know, political issue. But what happens is you just end up moving people out of the state. And that's exactly what was going to happen here. So at least they found some sort of way to make this kind affair, they're still increasing the fuel tax. It's going from 18 cents to 25 cents a gallon. 72 % of that revenue goes to the state aeronautics account and 28 % goes to sustainable aviation fuel. And they doubled the registration fees from $15 to $30, which I thought was kind of funny.

Preston Holland: no, what shall we do with this doubled doubling of registration fees? Oh, dear. Yeah. You know, that's it's an interesting topic. Like everybody's all like, oh, it's it's what $10 to register your airplane with the FAA. And it's like, oh, they're so resource resource constraint, like make it $100. That's a 10x increase. And it's a rounding error. So yeah, it's it is a win for business aviation. I think that it sets precedent to say, hey, look, you know,

Jessie Naor: We could erase that a little bit more. Right, right.

Preston Holland: no luxury tax, no wealth tax. job for NBAA So good job, NBAA and all of the other advocating entities. And I think that it's important for anybody involved in state, like state associations to realize that, hey, it's important to make your voice known and bring in NBAA when it's something that's gonna be pretty consequential.

Jessie Naor: Yeah. And I think the reason that they kind of had tailwinds to get this over the line was Howard Schultz, who was the founder of Starbucks. Washington has been pushing for this wealth tax, this 9.9%. Anyone who's worth over, I think, million dollars, they're supposed to get a 9.9 % wealth tax. And while he didn't publicly state that that's the reason he was moving out of Washington to go to Miami, because everyone wants to be down here in South Florida, he also announced it on the exact same day that the house passed that. So I think all of these state groups are going like, okay, look, we want to collect more taxes. But obviously, the way to do it is not to just raise the taxes because money has legs and it will go elsewhere.

Preston Holland: Yeah, no kidding. that is shown by all of the, you fleeing of California right now with the wealth tax in New York. mean, there's a lot of that. ⁓ And you have an airplane, you're even more mobile. ⁓

Jessie Naor: Yeah. Yeah, and I was reading, exactly, yeah, your plane can go to the next state over. It's not a big deal. And I was even reading on that, like, you because there's back and forth on, well, know, net immigration, migration to and from these states isn't changing or isn't changing much, but it matters what the tax base is. The really, really wealthy high end tax base is the one moving. if there is net more into a state, you really have to look at the tax base and where it's coming from.

Preston Holland: Well, moving on to our last story, the NOAA aviation weather tools has launched the domestic aviation forecasting system, which kind of a, you know, we've had this big push ⁓ on de-icing things like that. This is an ⁓ I think interesting advance given the, you know, the challenger that was in Bangor a lot of kind of the de-icing things that have come up here recently. ⁓ We've actually made some Pretty good progress here.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, I mean, and I think it's rare that we give the government credit for like doing some things, but this is one of those areas where they've been working on this and come up with a new model. And what's interesting to me too is this isn't this new tool isn't necessarily an infrastructure change. It's not like they have new weather stations, new radar or anything, but it's basically a supercomputer model has gotten so much better that they're able to give more granularity in their reports. So called the HRRR model, High Resolution Rapid Refresh, which means updates a 3 kilometer grid with 3D radar data assimilated every 15 minutes, which it used to be only 13 kilometers. So a lot more finer. Hopefully will have more information on where the turbulence is, where the icing is, making the passenger experience better and hopefully safer.

Preston Holland: Yeah, for like the first time ever we're using 21st century technology in some of these systems. I mean, it's really interesting because have a world in which big data has been rapidly and yet aviation has not used much big data in order ⁓ increase safety ⁓ do some these things. ⁓ This is example where the government, the NOAA,

Jessie Naor: you

Preston Holland: has really tried to push forward. that ⁓ got, for Garmin Pilot, a lot of these things that were internet products and I would say ⁓ sometimes workaround or using multiple of data. So really unifying of that, I think it's really good for the entire industry, just in general.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, and that's thing too. mean, this doesn't require any upgrades or any additional costs. You know, have to upgrade your Garmin. costs you money. But because it's coming from the government, automatically going to be integrated all your feeds, your Garmin devices, your Fore flight devices. It's just going to automatically be better. So be for maybe some more information in the future. That's the one thing I just like I don't think people realize happens the whole time that you're flying. You're generally on autopilot. The thing happening is you're asking about icing and you're asking about icing. You're asking about turbulence. You want the passenger to be happy the whole time. So I venture to say 50 % of pilot communications are probably just about turbulence that's coming up.

Preston Holland: Well, other just kind of quick hitting news for the end of your show. We did lose a pilot on Friday and we found him on Sunday. So he did. He did leave us on Good Friday and he came back on Easter. Sounds familiar. There's somebody else who had that similar pattern. So he is risen from, the desert of Iran.

Jessie Naor: Yeah, well, I think his radio transmission was God is good or something like that. That was the first thing he said. He was injured, climbed like 7000 feet to get to a ridge where he could be safely extracted. And I mean, I was listening to the press conference on Monday and it's like, I don't know how many soldiers were deployed. We're talking about hundreds of people trying to find him, but they found him. It's amazing. We had to blow up some of our airplanes in the process because we didn't want them to fall into the hands of the enemy, which is not great. But war is war.

Preston Holland: Yeah, exactly. I am just looking forward to the documentary about this one, ⁓ like Amazon, Hulu, TV, like whoever's going to actually get the rights to this story. I'm forward to watching that here in a couple of years. And I really hope that they draw some parallels and hear some of stories. It will be a dramatic recreation. yeah, good news coming out that part of the world.

Jessie Naor: Thank All right, so you will be seeing something coming from us soon. It is Master's week. It is the biggest private, one of the biggest private aviation events of the year. So don't be surprised if you see some content coming out later from us and maybe a new sponsor along the way. We're really excited to announce, but we're not going to tell you who it is quite yet.

Preston Holland: Yep, lots of VIP seats will be at the Masters. So you may find us in a few VIP seats somewhere around Augusta. So that the tease. We are looking forward to it. If you are in Augusta, reach out to us. We'd love to hear it. Send us your pictures. We will be reposting them. The Masters app back. Don't forget to download in the app store because it is the best app that you keep for a week. It is back. So yeah, so we are looking forward to that. This has been another great episode of the VIP Seat Podcast. We are bringing you the top five news stories in business aviation for you at work. And so what that means is we need you to share it with some work friends. So send it to some people in aviation, ⁓ us a five-star review, Spotify, Apple podcasts, go on YouTube, subscribe, engage with us on LinkedIn, ⁓ out to us if you've got hot tips or insider things. A reminder, if you want to come on the podcast, we need it to be timely, relevant, and you need to be a market expert. We are going to start having clips. So I get the question all the time. How do I get on the VIP seat podcast? Pitch an idea. We are not going to promise that we're going to say that we're going to take it, but we always listen to pitches. Hello at the VIP seat.com. Go subscribe to newsletter at the VIP seat.com for Jessie Naor I am Preston Holland. Thank you to AB Jets for sponsoring this week's of the podcast and will see you all next week.