speaker-0: Welcome to You're Not Crazy, it's Perimenopause. If you're a woman over 40 and feeling more anxious, not sleeping well, or disconnected from your body, this podcast is for you. I'm your host, Jenny Smith, Functional Medicine Health Coach, here to help you understand what the heck is happening in Perimenopause. Each week, we're diving into real life conversations about how our changing hormones impact anxiety, sleep, and stress. And I'll share simple strategies to help you feel normal again. So grab a cup of tea or beverage of choice, get comfy, and let's dive in. Welcome back to You're Not Crazy. Carrie menopause. I am so excited for today's conversation because we're talking about something that I think can completely change the way that women view themselves. So many women over 40 feel frustrated because they can't seem to stay motivated, stay consistent, follow through on goals, or keep up with routines. And what often happens is that they blame themselves, they think they're lazy, undisciplined, unmotivated, or doing something wrong. Today we are diving into the Enneagram and how the nine personality types can influence things like motivation, habits, people pleasing, burnout, and even the way we approach our health during perimenopause. So today I am joined by my friend and Enneagram coach, Angie Alchemist, and I'm so excited for this conversation because I know so many women listening are going to feel incredibly sane in this episode. So a little bit about Angie. Angie is an Enneagram coach who works in the intersections of Enneagram and Mysticism. She helps two types of people: total Enneagram nerds wanting to dive deep into the world of introspection, and people who are working towards tangible change. When she isn't coaching, she's making pottery, meditating with her dog, and watching anime. Welcome Angie. I'm so happy that you're here.

speaker-1: Here. Yes, I'm so happy to be here and talking to all these women who are listening to this podcast, like going through hormonal frustration, feeling crazy. Like I feel like the title of your podcast is so dead on because it does make you feel crazy. And I think that the Enneagram is just another tool to help people understand who they are and realize that they're not crazy and that the world is just complicated and our personalities are complicated.

speaker-0: Yeah, for sure. So for women who are brand new to the Enneagram, can you explain what it is like in a in simple terms?

speaker-1: Yes, absolutely. I think that that when people hear Enneagram, and this is myself included, I was like, ⁓ the only word that has the root gram that I'm familiar with besides Instagram is pentagram, which is like a witch thing. And I do love ⁓ some witchiness, of course, but that actually has nothing to do with the Enneagram. The Enneagram is a personality typing system that leans much more practical and psychological. It's used in a lot of like corporate sense. Settings or a lot of Christian church settings too. I don't practice it in such a dry corporate way or in a religious way. I practice it in a mystical way, of course, like you said in my bio. But it's not about any type of like super woo spiritual mysticism in and of itself. That's just, I interject that for fun. But what the Enneagram really is, is a personality typing system. I like to say the personality typing system because it's better than any personality system like Myers Briggs or the Disc Assessment. It's better than all of those because it looks at who you are deep down, not your behaviors in the outside world, but who you really are deep down. And that I think is why it makes people feel so seen when they finally figure out their Enneagram type. And something that's important for people who are brand new to the Enneagram is that no one can tell you your type. A quiz cannot tell you your type. A test cannot tell you your type. It can help you figure out your type, but you have to be the one to determine your own type. And that is one of the many reasons why the Enneagram is so powerful because we do a lot of introspection and find so much out about our personalities that we would never know.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. So can you tell us like how you got into the Enneagram? Like when was your first introduction to it?

speaker-1: Yeah, so when I heard about the Enneagram, I actually thought it was stupid and simple because I come from a background of like deep intense astrology and like all kinds of really, really intense systems to help us understand ourselves. And so I was like, ⁓ nine personality types. That's so dumb. That's so simple. Ew. And the reason why I started using it in my work was because I needed something that was simple to help people. Well, it turns out it's not simple at all. And as I I have gone through my certification and I as I've been running my own Ennegram business and my podcast and everything that I do with the Ennegram, I've realized like wow, this is super deep and and for a lot of people, the tool that helps people understand who they are. And I've tried other tools like in my personal life with people who I'm close to, I'm like, ⁓ let's use all these tools because I'm familiar with a lot of them and the Ennegram just has stood out as the one that is the most helpful. ⁓ with all of my like reservations that I had about it too. It's like overcome all of that for me in my life.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't say in the beginning when I introduced you how we met. So you and I met through our business coach, Sean Minor, and sh you are the one that kind of introduced me to my you introduced me to the Enneagram in the sense that I took the quiz and you really helped me kind of dive deep into my Enneagram type because I had heard about the Enneagram. Like so many people had been talking about it, but I never actually learned about it until I met you. And so you're right. It isn't simple, but it's it's really great in this because you do have a quiz and I took the quiz and I actually kinda landed on it right away because I'm like, ⁓ yep, that's me. That's totally me for for all of you who are listening. I'm an Enneagram nine and we are, you know, very I guess w would you say the peacemaker, like no conflict? I'm like, Yep, that's me.

speaker-1: Ha ha. Yeah, I love that you say that because that is very true. Like so many people take the quiz and they figure it out right away. And it's either like they land on it immediately or they're so super complicated that they become an Ennegram nerd because they are so determined to figure out their type. It's one or the other. And I find that and either way, people end up with like some really beautiful information about themselves, regardless of if they figure it out right away or if they become a nerd like me about. Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah. So how so you you liked that it it wasn't so simple, that it wasn't so basic, that it really helps people kind of learn more about them, not just in societal ways, but like deep down, like who they really are to the core. So what what was it about the Enneagram that led you to do more research for yourself to find out your type and if you wouldn't mind sharing with us what your type is and how that directed you to become an Enneagram coach.

speaker-1: Yes, I love talking about my Enneagram stories. So the reason really why the Enneagram did stand out, in addition to the fact that P it is so much an intrapersonal journey and an introspective journey, is that it is accessible to everybody. And that's really important to me. So there are certain things like like I mentioned astrology, which the two are not similar. Like astrology has to do with mysticism in the stars. The Enneagram is very practical. And that was one of the things that I loved about it, even though I I am quite mystical myself, but that there needed to be no buy-in. This is very much like psychologically based. There is so many researchers out there who are very scientific and academic and I am an Ennegram 5, and as I talk more about the Enneagram, for people who know what the Enneagram's about, then they know fives, we love academics and we love like proof and we love research. And so even though I love mysticism and I love like being woo and having a lot of witchy fun in my work, the practicality and the accessibility of the Enneagram was really what drove me to it. And figuring out that I was an Enneagram 5, I was not like you. Take a test and say, okay, here I am. This is me. I took a test and I was like, no, I'm just like too complicated. I need to do more. I need to do more work and I need to figure it out. And it took me a while to figure it out. And that journey in learning that I was an Negram 5 was one of the most profound journeys I have ever experienced when it comes to self-discovery and changing my life. And Then the next thing that I think is so important and helpful about the Enneagram is when it comes to partnership. And so this can be like romantic partnership, this could be friendship, this could be business partnership, but working with other people, the relational capacity that the Enneagram has to like improve how we act socially is one of the most incredible things. And I have not found that in any other system. And I just love it.

speaker-0: Yeah. And that's a thing like you said, like some people can take the quiz and it's pretty spot on and others have to do more work with it and that's where you come in as the coach to really work alongside them to say, okay, and you ask those questions, the questions that get them to really thinking, 'cause it I can't you guys nobody knows the Aneagram more than Angie, Alchemist. I'm telling you that right now. So ⁓ I've just learned so much from you. And I think just in our conversations too, you have really helped me. Like you asked really great questions as far as getting me to kind of step back and think about things. Like, okay, well, this is why this might be happening. This is, you know, you're an Enneagram nine, self-preservation, like this is what you're doing. You know, so ⁓ it's really helpful when you do know kind of like your your inner workings, like how you operate. ⁓ so maybe we can take some time because I think for my audience specifically, I think many people in general, they're on a path to bettering themselves. Like they want to be healthier, they want to feel good. They want to live a good life. They have goals, dreams, all the things. And I think we oftentimes like we think it's about motivation and and you know, I I guess I'm I must not be motivated. Like I'm motivated to start, but I can't finish. So something's wrong with me. Where that's not really the case. Like there's nothing wrong with you. It's maybe you're going about it in the way that's not in alignment with how you operate. So maybe we can take some time to talk about like each Enneagram type as far as like their core motivation to do something. So let's say they're wanting to on to be on this health journey, but they cannot stick with this diet or they they're not consistent with working out or, you know. So kind of walking through each of the types, maybe explain a little bit about the type and kind of like what they're core motivation is or like they're i you know what I'm saying? Like maybe you could be

speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ Got you. I got you. Okay. So yes, I know exactly what you're saying. And this is a subject that I'm extremely passionate about because I have been on every end of the spectrum when it comes to health, like overly fixated on my health to the point where it was like definitely unhealthy. And then like totally neglecting my health, where I'm like drinking like way too much alcohol and like eating food that really fucks with me. And so I have been there and I have blamed myself and the shame cycle and And it is horrible. Not being able to do what you need to do for your own health is really, really hard. And I think as women, which is your audience, it is so much harder because we have not only pressure to take care of everyone, but also we have pressure to look a certain way, like look like we're 22 years old until the day we die. And like pressure to just all the all kinds of pressure on us all the time. And also like Just living life. It's very hard. So I think that when people start learning about their Enneagram type, when it comes to the intersection of Enneagram and health, it is so incredible because you can start to see that no, you're not the problem. And you just need a little bit of awareness and like ⁓ probably a hell of a lot more support, which is what we are should be all receiving. And so let's put it into perspective what different types need different supports. So we're gonna go in order one through nine. So you'll be last, Jenny. As you always are so type ones this is the type and before i get into this i do want to say that if people would feel like it would be helpful i do have my enneagram quiz which you'll link in the show notes yeah they can take the quiz before listening or after listening honestly there's no right way to do it i personally ⁓ would not pause a podcast to take a quiz i would be like i gotta go i gotta hear it so well

speaker-0: I think that they actually if they haven't if they don't know their type and they haven't taken the quiz yet, listen to what you have to say and see if they can identify themselves based on the type that you're talking about and then go back and take the quiz and see. But then, you know, start there. Start there.

speaker-1: I love that. I love that. And that is really like the best way to figure out your type is by listening. I think to podcasts is a really good way. Okay, so type ones. This type is known as the perfectionist. And I really do think that a lot of ones feel this. They don't feel like everyone needs to be perfect. They feel like they need to be perfect. Enneagram ones have big, huge inner critics. And what happens when people have a big, huge inner critic is their standards for themselves are so high. They will never reach those standards. So, this is what I see in my work with Enneagram ones, especially when it comes to health, is they will not start their health journey because they're afraid to fail. And the fear of not doing it perfect puts a lot of Enneagram ones into a state where they don't attempt or they feel like if they do it wrong a little bit that they're just a failure and they stop and they give up. They like cut their legs out from underneath of them. So for example. I was working with a one who was really working on her nutrition and she ate too much sugar for her liking. You know, I'm a sugar fan, but there is, but you know, we know that there's only so much sugar that you should be having. So she was eating too much sugar for her liking and she wanted to reduce that. But it took her like half a year to put in the tiniest minimal effort steps to reach her goal because she kept putting other things, prioritizing other things, and the Real reason was she was afraid of not reaching her goal. And the truth is, none of us reach our goal first time around. Like we all, it's always a work in progress, and you have to iterate on that goal constantly. And so for type ones, that is the really hard thing. And I think that ⁓ a lot of people can resonate with that, even if they're not a type one, but that's for type ones. For type twos, this is I'm gonna say this specific thing a lot for a lot of types, is it is feeling depleted. So, type twos, the thing that is the quintessential to behavior is twos love to help everybody. Like twos are putting out their energy to connect, they prioritize human connection over anything and everything. They love their people, and that's the biggest thing. And what they do is in an effort to help everyone, because it's like a two doesn't feel good unless everyone feels good. In their effort to help every single person around them feel good, they completely neglect themselves. And I see a lot of people when they become mothers this is I don't have children. I only have well I don't have any human children, only fur. But I think that that a lot of people think they're choos and they're not. But I think a lot of people who are mothers resonate with this. Like almost every mother resonates with putting prioritizing everyone before themselves.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And as you were saying that, I was thinking, okay, so someone listening to this is going to be thinking, ⁓ well, that's me because I'm putting my kids first. I'm taking care of the house. I'm I'm working and feeding my family. I'm doing like I've got to take care of my parents. I'm part of the sandwich generation. So how would you so you say that most women feel that way because of their nurturing, you know, caretaking tendencies. But how would like a two really be different from that? 'Cause I I think a lot of women do Do you know what I'm saying? Like a lot of women feel that way. But how would how would they how would that be different? You know what I'm saying? I like

speaker-1: Yeah, like how like how would they discern themselves from other types?

speaker-0: Thank you.

speaker-1: It's really hard. That is that is a nuanced discovery. And so normally how a two, and this will happen when we get to sixes as well, you'll see. But how a two is like, yeah, I'm not a two is or how someone figures out they're not a two rather is they identify with another type strongly. So that is one of the big ways. However, we do have all nine types within us. So just because you're like, hey, I'm a mom and I prioritize everyone over myself. Well, like I'm a five and I s and I don't even have human children and I still will prioritize everyone over myself. We almost all go through a phase where we think we're a two.

speaker-0: Most people.

speaker-1: People do. Because the two focuses on human relationships and that is one of the most important things in the world. It should be more important than money, than you feeling like the ability to express yourself, than you doing things perfectly. So a lot of people are gonna think they're too. And what I'm saying to those people is just be open minded because only like ⁓ Not an exactly a ninth of the population, but about a ninth of the pop that's only one of the nine types. So you're not probably s a lot of you listening are not twos. And some of you are.

speaker-0: Yeah. And that's a I'm glad you said that because I have been talking to you for a while now and I listened to your podcast and we'll we'll link that in the show notes as well. But you will talk about things and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh, that sounds like me. That sounds like me. But you are very good about like as part of what we learn from you is being able to identify strongly with one type. But we can see ourselves in all types.

speaker-1: So yes. Yeah, that really is the beauty of another beautiful thing of the Enneagram. It's the gift that keeps on giving, is that it gives us a frame of reference to have compassion for other people through noticing the qualities that we have. So even people who aren't twos, well, the now all those people can have a lot of compassion for twos because we all go through that experience where we deprioritize ourselves for other people. Yeah. And I do notice that for twos specifically, that deprioritizing themselves. It is the end of their health journey. And it that is really sad because for us to be mentally healthy, physically healthy, there are a lot of components that go into that. And the main thing for us to be able to get that done is to prioritize ourselves. And the world we live in, like I'm speaking from the United States, because that's where I live, that's where you live. So I can't say for sure for everybody, but a lot of people experience this in other countries as well. It tells us women are not the priority.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: You're here to serve everybody, you're here to nurture everybody, and it does feel good to do that. So it really is about shifting those needs, getting help. I mean, I talk about how twos can get help all the time. It's like a never-ending discussion because they need it and they deserve it. Mm-hmm. So type threes are a really interesting type because they're hyper productive. And type threes are like the type that is reaches a goal and then they're like, ⁓ let me come up with another goal. Like they are non-stop just the types that are running the world really. And they move quickly. They have a lot of energy. What I mean by that is they have a lot of energy to get shit done. Like things just happen around them and they will rally other people to get shit done too, which is so cool. And so the world really is like run by threes. And the problem for people who are type threes is like this highly productive person, they get stuck in this cycle of intense stress. And that is something I know you talk about. One of the cornerstones of health, because I've done your work. One of the cornerstones of health is like reducing that stress. And if you're in a cycle of fight, flight, stress state, even if you're being productive and if you're addicted to that productivity, then you cannot sink in and realize the true elements of your well-being. And that is a little bit deep. And so I do give threes, I don't know, a lot of compassion because it's harder to discover exactly what They need to shift to open up their health journey. But for threes, l if you are a three and you are listening to this, I am promising you that your product, your cycle of productivity, it needs to be interrupted with rest. And that's so hard. And for a lot of us, we're like, hell yeah, rest more. Like a nine is like that. I would love for that to be my prescription to rest more. But for threes, that's so, so, so hard. And because they feel like rest is the enemy of their ultimate goal, which is getting shit done again. being productive. But it it really will make them more productive when they rest.

speaker-0: So true. And I think just in general, again, all all of us have like a little bit of all the types in us is that women are when they do rest, they're like, ⁓ I shouldn't be resting because I have to do this and I have, you know, this on my calendar and I gotta get this done and this deadline. So it's just a matter of kind of reframing it in the sense that you deserve this and your body needs this before you burn out. Because that's a real thing too, especially as you get older. I talk a lot about ⁓ just how our body shifts into when we enter into perimenopause into late thirties, early forties, that our adrenals start to take over. So we're more susceptible to stress and we actually feel more stress than we did when we were younger. So it's even more important for threes to find that balance to take care of themselves before they burn out.

speaker-1: That is really beautiful. Every time I hear you say that, because I'm 38, I'm like, fuck. Like I really kinda like get my stress under control. Because I can I can dive into that. Like I have a lot of compassion for threes because I have a lot of that quality in myself. And I and as you say, I think we all do where we can't sit down and rest for some reason. And that is really shitty that the world has told us that we are not allowed to rest and that we've built up a society that it just is not coh like resting doesn't fit in. With our schedule, but it's our responsibility to do that for ourselves. And I think that all of us need to hear that, not just the type threes.

speaker-0: Yep. Hundred percent.

speaker-1: Alright, so let's get to the weirdest ⁓ Enneagram type. That is type four. And I say weird with like so much love. Like the that is like a compliment coming from me. Fours are unique, they are very special, and like a four would not be offended by being a weirdo. Like that's their job in this world, and I love them for that. Fours are like very creative. not necessarily always in an artistic way, like what we think of when we think of traditional creativity, but creativity can take on many forms. Fours are the types of people who Are injecting the world with like emotion and intensity. They are very intense people. And I will say that a disproportionate amount of artists are Ennegram fours. Like if you're an artist, you might be an Enneagram four. So I really understand fours a lot because I have a lot of four ish as a five. I have something called a wing of a four. And that's a little bit deeper in the Enneagram. So yay to anyone who knows what I'm talking about when I say that. But it just means that I have a lot of four in me, so I can understand. This type deeply, and I also am a fellow weirdo with them. So the fours are really concerned with being their unique and authentic selves, and they also want that for everybody else. The society that we live in is completely against that. And like it really shuts us down and makes us overthink like, was that bad? Like, ew, was I being weird? Was I being annoying? Was I being, ⁓ I'm I was too much myself. I have a vulnerability. Lady hangover now everybody experiences that and it's Devastating for fours. Most of us were like, ⁓ like, let me just hide and I'll be okay. But for fours, it really does devastate their soul. And so I think that all of us deserve to show up and be seen as we truly are and be our most authentic weirdo selves and be celebrated for that. Like the world is a much better place when people are able to show up as who they truly are. However, for fours specifically, how this gets in the way of their health journey is that there is so much. Much emotion and shame around who like self-hatred for who they really are because the world is unaccepting of unique people, that this gets internalized and it becomes a barrier to self-care. And so that is a little bit deeper and psychological and layered, which is very typical of the Enneagram 4s. Like they're all about depth and layers, and they are not. Easy to easy to understand at all. Like they cannot be put in a box. And I love fours. I don't know if you can tell. I'm a big fan of fours. And so that is why for them it's so hard, is because it's so it's such an emotional journey and it's hard to see. This is probably the first time that they're ever hearing, hey, probably your barrier to health is your shame. And your shame at being who you truly are, and the the world, the society putting imposing these. norms on you that are not meant for you. And that is a little bit tricky to see how that translates into them taking care of their physical health. But once they can become comfortable in who they truly are, then they can start stepping into that self-care. But if you don't like yourself, you're not going to treat yourself well. And the world is telling them not to like themselves. It's very unfortunate because fours are some of the most inventive, creative people in this world. Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. You say you were talking about how you love fours. We we know a couple of fours that are close to our hearts because I learned I've learned so much from the Enneagram with from you that I can see the fours in my life. And knowing that we are all different and that you're right, like it's so hard for some women who are who have that personality type where they're a little bit more emotional and they're not fitting into this box and they're looked at as what is wrong with you? Why are you why are you why are you crying right now? What's wrong with you? You know? And there's nothing wrong with them. It's just it's, you know, different than what we're 'cause a lot of times would you say that we're kind of like playing a character just to fit in with society?

speaker-1: Yeah, I definitely and the and we all do it. Like every single, I think all women have to do it. It's like a safety mechanism, a protective mechanism. And also for fours that disconnect with the character that they're playing versus who they really are, it is like soul crushing. And I don't know that it's easy to understand if you're not a four, how death is dating that disconnect is, but every day it weighs on them because they cannot be who they truly are. And then adding on that no one in their lives is truly who they truly like everyone's playing a role. It is like devastating for a four. They hate that. And I hate that too. You know, I hate that we have to do that. Like it's not good.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Yeah, agree.

speaker-1: Alright, moving on. My type. So type fives. Yeah, we really are obsessed with protecting our energy. And that was the main thing when I learned I was a five. The first thing I heard about fives was that they were greedy. And I was thinking like greedy, like money hungry. Like that when we hear greed, we automatically think of money hungry. And I don't necessarily think that fives are greedy, but what I do know for a fat, and I so I'm sorry, I skipped ahead. When I heard that fives were Greedy, I was fuck that, I'm not a five. Like, because I'm not, I'm very like giving, but I do hoard my energy, and I even if it seems like I'm giving a lot of energy away, which I do give a lot of energy away, like I am ⁓ I'm always giving to my community and like in my business, and I'm very open-hearted.

speaker-0: But and a little side note, she created the artwork for this podcast.

speaker-1: That's true. I do. Which and I love to do that. I love it. I love to express myself and help my friends express themselves too. And which is why I understand fours so well. But I I really resonate so much for fives. What resonated with me was when I learned that fives have this sort of constant equation, like how much energy does this take? How much energy do I have? And always concerned about it. So even though I'm not the best at protecting my energy. Energy all the time. I am obsessed with protecting my energy even though I'm consistently failing at that. And all fives are. ⁓ not failing at it. A lot of them are better than I am at protecting their energy, but all fives are really concerned with protecting their energy and like have this constant calculation and this constant fixation. So, what happens for fives when it comes to our physical health is that the thing that we do to protect our energy, which is this kind. Of like compulsive balancing act all the time that gets in the way of being less stressed out, like it really does bother us all the time we're concerned about it, it gets in the way of our relationships, so like we're constantly worried that a relationship is gonna take too much energy, even and and then still giving that relationship a lot of energy. So there's a lot of fear involved there and like scarcity mindset, and so for the five, it all of that gets in the The way of us putting out the energy to take care of ourselves because taking care of ourselves sounds like everything is big, everything is huge. Like I can't start a workout routine. Are you kidding me? And if I do start a workout routine, what relationship is gonna get in the way of that? Like, so it's really hard because I think that anyone who's ever gone through a wellness, a physical wellness journey, and as we know, physical wellness is tied up with psychological and emotional wellness, but anyone who's gone through a wellness journey. It takes a lot of effort and you're already balancing like your to-do list, your constant to-do list. So then being in Enigram 5 with already the balancing of the constant to-do list and then that constant to-do list, everything feels heavier. It's like every single task feels so big and so intense and so heavy that it's really hard to gain momentum.

speaker-0: Hmm, interesting. Would you say ⁓ so would you say with an Enneagram five that you like to do more solo work? Like as far as like participating in a program or you're taking a class, like do you does that really suck your energy too being a part of like a group project or and do you need more like alone time? You want to do it yourself? Like would you say that that's more of an Enneagram five?

speaker-1: So that's really interesting. That's a really interesting question. And I will say this that I am sort of a n not a typical five in that I am pretty extroverted for a type five. Like when people meet me, they're like, You're not a five. And I'm like, Well, yes I am, because I'm calculating how much energy this conversation is taking. But it is it's much less like for me, it's much less like I'm exhausted by being in a group of people as is There's a strong desire to connect intimately with each and every individual person. And so that desire makes it hard because I'm like, ⁓ I just like need to get you alone so I can ask you every detail about yourself. Because fives are very curious people, and we want to know all the details about all the things. And so that is the part when I'm in a group that's hard for me. And I notice that even in my work with in the Enneagram, I'm like constantly like private messaging all of my clients who are in my group, like, what let me do whatever. Like I don't know, just trying to have one on one interaction to people.

speaker-0: Okay, that makes sense. I yeah, and I and I really like that too. As an introvert, I prefer that more one-on-one. ⁓ so yeah, thank you so much for sharing that.

speaker-1: All right. Now, I told you when we get to type six that a lot of people are gonna be like, yeah, I'm a type six, because what the six is all about is being obsessed with safety and security. So I think that as humans, the desire to connect with other people and prioritize our relationships, which is consistent with the type two, we all have that. We also are all concerned with safety and security. Like if we don't have our home, our food, our people taken care of, then we are not safe and we are not ha and then we can't be happy. So that is like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like the bottom tier. We gotta get this taken care of. So a lot of people think they're an Enneagram 6. Also Something that is really consistently for consistent for all sixes is anxiety. And I think when we hear anxiety, we're all like, yeah, we're all anxious. Like we're all so anxious all the time. And that is that does not mean you're a six just because you have anxiety. But all sixes do have anxiety. And honestly, in the world that we live in, like most of us have anxiety. That's just a part of life. So with sixes, the thing that is really hard for them is it's almost like they're carrying everyone. On their back. Like their loved ones are the people who they consider in their inner circle are all their responsibility. So in the same way that a two can only feel happy if all their people are happy, a six can only feel safe if all their people are safe. So they're not only worried about their own safety and security, but they're problem solving for everyone around them, which then makes everyone around them a little bit more helpless and like overly responsible. Reliant on this very, very capable six. Sixes are so capable. Like we're all capable, but sixes are like outrageously capable of anything and everything. Any challenge that goes their way, they're gonna solve it because that's just the type of person they are. Yeah. And so when you're responsible for solving everything for everyone, you do not have time for delight, for joy, for peace, for relaxation, and all of those things, it is so kind. of like backwards because all of those things are the cornerstones to taking care of our physical health. When we think it's effort, we think it's like motivation, like you said, we think it's something inside of us in that way. What it really is is regulation, support, and self-love. And that's how we get to that place. So when we're telling ourselves like, ⁓ we suck because we can't stick to a routine or whatever, that is really the poison that's keeping us from our health journey.

speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. And I could see why it would be difficult for them to be like, ⁓ I gotta meal prep and I gotta put myself first and I have to get up early and exer yeah, you know, they don't have the energy. They're completely drained from having to take care of everyone. Like you said, the weight of everyone on their shoulders. And many of these women are also working full time jobs and so they're they're balancing that and juggling that too. So I'm hoping that as you're listening to this, just understanding that it's not as easy as, I should do this and I need to do this. It's like, well, what is intrinsically motivating you? What is what drives you? Like as far as your personality type, like knowing your personality type and being able to identify that and find ways and tools and strategies to start putting yourself first. Right? Like ideally that's what I really one of the messages that I really, really want to emphasize with this podcast is for women to not feel guilty about finally taking care of themselves and putting themselves first. Because if they're not well cared for, then nobody around them is going to be well cared for. So you want all these people that you love to be happy and healthy and all these things, but it's gonna be useless if you don't have the energy to be there for them. So Anyways, I went on a little side tangent with that, but

speaker-1: ⁓ I loved your side tangent. Like they everyone needed to hear I needed to hear that. So thank you for that. And It really is like I co couldn't agree more. It is so much about people asking for help. I think that so far we've gone through six types and every single one of them would benefit from being honest with the people around them saying, hey, I need to delegate these tasks. I need more support. I need to take less on so that I can be more of a priority for myself. So all right, well, let's move on to type sevens who are the life of the party. We know some sevens and I'm married to a seven. Sevens are always in my life, and they just really know how to bring the fun. Sevens prioritize fun over everything, and they really hate like monotony. They're the type that likes to have new experiences all the time. And they, if you have a seven, if you are a seven, lucky you, and if you have a seven in your life, they are going to bring like just experiences that you would never have in ever. I am very Cosmically connected, I feel like to sevens. Like I always used to say I was a fun hater, you know, because I would much prefer to just like be a homebody and like be safe and secure and like have all my needs met. And fun seems like it's the enemy of that, but truthfully, it's not, and it took me a long time to like realize that. So for my sevens, I think that they're very unique in that they don't struggle as they do struggle with all the things that we've talked about, but they don't struggle as much because they really kind of do have a natural drive to Prioritize having a good time, which means a little bit of prioritizing themselves. And we love that for them. We want them to keep doing that, and we all need a little bit of that. But what gets in the way for sevens is that fear of boredom and monotony and that hating discipline. Like the sevens that I work with, the thing that frees them most is realizing that when they can have a little bit more consistency and commitment and a little bit of discipline, discipline is not the enemy. When they can have that. That in their life, it really does give them a new level of freedom, and they see that with their physical health, they see that with their financial health, like in all of these ways. And so, while Sevens love a good party, that is, and that is their magic, like that is amazing. They also are super capable people and have the ability to be consistent, and what is their main enemy really is that fear of being. Being trapped in a life that's boring, and so meal prepping, wow, that's boring. Like, that's kind of boring. And like, yeah, and having to give up drinking, not that people have to necessarily always give up drinking, but I'm just saying, like, that or having to like have a consistent step goal or workout routine. And for sevens, the cool thing for them is there are a lot of ways around the monotony and the boredom. And there's many ways to move your body that are focused. Fulfilling and helpful. There's many ways to get your protein in. And there's many ways for you to calm your nervous system. Like all the things that you have to do, you can actually connect those with fun. And so for sevens, I'm not saying it's easier for them, but what I am saying is they have all these avenues where if they're open minded and they're like, hey, now I am committing to a workout goal, that's just my example. But that workout goal can look any type of way. And so sevens just really being themselves and being their adventurous, amazing selves is gonna be the anecdote to anything that would get in the way of them not reaching their health goals.

speaker-0: Yeah, so you say they don't have trouble with consistency. However, if it's like the same routine like I love routines. You're gonna get to that, I think. i i for them it needs to be a little bit more s like you gotta change it up. Like it can't be doing the same thing or I'm gonna fall off. So do you think that with sevens they have to be Like they can stay consistent. It's just a matter of finding different creative ways to make it more fun. Because if they're having fun, then they're more likely to follow through on

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, that's such a good point too, is that if it's not fun, they're not gonna follow through. Like maybe they will, they'll have to force themselves to and it will suck. So really for them, they do have to make it fun because then they will be intrinsically motivated to have a good time and keep doing whatever healthy thing they're doing. And to be truthful, that's for all of us. Like even though you love a routine, the routine should be fun. Which we'll get to your routine loving Enneagram type. First we have to go through Eights. And I shouldn't say have to, I should say get to because I love an eight. Eights are like the protector of the Enneagram. They are the German Shepherd guard dog. That's what I always call them. And I love a German Shepherd. And so they are out there to keep their people safe. They're gonna jump into action to be like a person who's gonna just be there for people. I have an eight that I'm really close to. I mean, I have like a couple eights in my life, but one that I'm very, very close to. And she would get in a fight on the street with people if they looked at me wrong. Like we lived in we went to college together in Chicago. And not like a physical fight, but she'd be yelling at them, you know. And that was enough to scare them. Like she was she really, really had a packed a punch and was forceful. Eights are natural leaders. They are. Very, very special. And the thing that is hard for AIDS, AIDS really do carry a burden in this life because of how with the natural leadership abilities that they have, they become a target for people who are jealous. And I AIDS, you just feel their energy in a certain type of way. And sometimes it will make you uncomfortable because they're so powerful. And that power is sometimes scary for us to witness. So I encourage everyone listening if you're not an eight. Please, if you feel that within yourself and it makes you uncomfortable, say, well, maybe they're an Enniegram eight and they're really powerful and I want them on my side. And like they could be my greatest ally and my deepest friend. Because really that's how we should see AIDS, and they don't want to hurt people. What they want is actually to protect everybody. But that intense energy and that power can be really misinterpreted, which is so sad. And so the hard thing for AIDS is that this world is often not. made for free thinking people. Like AIDS are outside of the box people and they are powerful. And we are a lot easier to control and we are a lot easier to be for people to make money off of us if we are small and controllable and sick and unhealthy. And I know that that's a big part of your work and that is a strong belief of mine when it comes to owning our personalities. And AIDS are not compliant. So because of that, that does make them a target For people, and that means that all eyes are on them. So when an eight starts to get involved in their health journey, the hard thing for them is that failing publicly, it's not that they care that they're gonna be embarrassed. They're not afraid of being embarrassed. What they're afraid of is for people to see them being vulnerable and then people to take advantage of that. Because if someone takes advantage of the Enneagram eight, then they take can easily take advantage of everyone that that Enneagram eight is protected. And that is so important for AIDS and like such a beautiful thing about them that they're so concerned with that. But it makes it really hard for them to open up and be vulnerable. And they even have a hard time being vulnerable in front of the people who they're protecting. So they feel very isolated and alone. And it's hard for them to reach out for help and get support. So I think sometimes when you were talking about being in a community, how that can be hard, that can be sometimes hard and scary for type AIDS. Like they really struggle. showing up in this way where they're being open and vulnerable.

speaker-0: Yeah. Would you say that eights too? So let's say like I have a protocol, like I have a step by step plan for women to get their health back, to, you know, gain energy, do all the things. Do you think that they're more likely to be resistant to that because they have to go and research it and make sure that it is actually the right way? Because when you were describing the eight, it made me think like they might be more rebellious with what their doctor is telling them and they'll like, Nope. I don't I don't think so. Like I I d I don't think I need to do that. You know, would would an eight be that that type? Like, no, I don't I'm good. I don't need to, you know, quit drinking or quit smoking or whatever, you know?

speaker-1: So I love talking about rebels because I love ⁓ I love a rebellious spirit. And I think that when it comes to the biggest rebel on the Ennegram is the type seven. And the type six is a close second because sixes are really suspicious. But the thing with apes, it's not even necessarily they d are a little bit rebellious, but ⁓ it's not necessarily that they're gonna be like, ew, no, I don't wanna do what you say. It's that they have a hard time trusting people, and when it comes to our health. I in any facet, our financial health, our emotional health, our physical health, when it comes to our health, that is so deeply personal. And it seems like scientific, but really we have so many emotions tied up into it. And that's where it gets hard for AIDS. So they're like, Ugh, are you gonna give or I can I trust you? I can't trust anyone. I can only rely on myself. So it's not necessarily that they're trying to be rebellious, it's that they're afraid to rely on other people.

speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining that. Because I immediately thought they might be the more rebellious type, but you're saying that that's six and seven.

speaker-1: Well, yeah, and it gets and rebellion is so complicated when it comes to sixes. Like they're either all in or they're all out. And you kinda never know. ⁓ you're if the any of them sixes know what I'm talking about because they're complicated people. But sevens, they just like love to they will rebel just to have fun. Like just cause it's fun. They're like, don't tell me what to do. I'm out here to have fun. Yeah. They're so cute. I love So let's wrap it up with type nines, your type. And I do think that there probably are a lot of nines listening because I think that you most likely attract a lot of nines with your work and with just your aura. And so people listening, they just knowing you and listening to this podcast, they have a great idea of what a nine is. You are a very good example of a nine. Like nines are all about peace and harmony, often introverted. Even if they seem kind of extroverted, they are an introvert deep down. They like to be cozy, they like their routines, they like their rituals, and they just really like to chill and have this energy about them where the eight projects like intense, kind of combative energy. The nine projects this like harmonious, loving, peaceful energy, this very laid-back energy. And I think that that is very comforting. To a lot. I find it very comforting. I like wish I was a nine all the time because I wanna I wanna have that energy, but it's just not the cards I result. And so the thing about nines is That is the hard lot because I've talked about all the beautiful, wonderful things about nines. But the hard thing is that nines are really afraid of conflict. And whenever we prioritize ourselves, we think it comes at the disadvantage of someone else. So nines very much struggle with prioritizing themselves for many reasons, but that is the one that I see come up so often. Because we think, ⁓ if I take care of myself, other people are gonna miss out. Think that this kind of goes along with a lot of types and the lie that we have been told, because truthfully, our effort is way less important than the energy that we show up with. So if you're thinking about the people who you take care of your job or your loved ones, how you show up, the energy you show up with is so much more impactful than the work that you do for them. And also, you're not their employee. Well, maybe at work you would literally are their employee, but. But you're not you're not built to be, we are not put on this earth to be like other people's workers. We are on this earth to express our authentic genius and to make true connections. And so for the nine, it can be really scary to step into that power and say, hey, I'm gonna prioritize myself because it comes with this huge implicit like. me stepping into my own self-care takes something away from all the people around me.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. And you had mentioned that we do like our routines, our rituals, which for me, that's what I need. Like I need a routine. I need to know what I'm doing. That's my comfort zone. And you mentioned that we're very introverted. And I didn't always used to be. And I think anyone listening to this too, as our hormones start to fluctuate, we become a little bit more introverted. Each one of us, we just don't have that drive to go out because if you think about how our hormones are designed, they're designed to mingle and procreate. And like we go through that cycle and we're looking for a partner. We're looking to mate and all the things. And then once we get into perimenopause, we start to lose a little bit of that drive to go out and like mingle. So you might even notice too, I relate to that. I'm more introverted. I want to be more cozy. But you may not necessarily be a nine. You just may be in that season of your life. Where you just don't really care about going out and mingling and finding your partner. Like, you know, it's just a different season. And I, yes, I have learned so much about the nine and hating conflict. And I don't want anyone mad at me. I don't want any judgment. Like I just want everyone to be happy, you know. And as you were sharing with the nine types, the seven, I'm like, I used to be a seven. I was a lot of fun. Like I was, you know, but I probably was never a seven and you had mentioned or or you talk about the Enneagram like we just don't change. Can you can you talk about that? Like once you identify your type and you're clear on your type, is that your type forever or does it does it change throughout the years of your life?

speaker-1: That is such a good question, and thank you for asking that because it's super important. A lot of people think that they can change types throughout the years, and that's a no. So you really can't determine your type until you're in your like early to mid-20s, is when you sort of gel because of all the experiences that you've had. And our Enneagram type is built up of so many different things that I can't get into right now, but it you can't determine it until that age. And when you're trying to determine your type, you kind of have to look. who you are now, who you've been throughout that time frame of from your like early to mid twenties to now. And all of those people are encompassed in one Enigram type. And I think that that can be really helpful, but that makes the journey a little more complicated. But it can be really helpful for those people who are like, ⁓ mature because I love my kids or I'm a six because I have anxiety. Like those types of people. And so What your Enneagram type, it is yours. It's like the code that you are programmed with, and nothing is gonna take that code away from you. However, you do pick up different pieces and you let different pieces go throughout your life, which is why we our whole journey is to really encompass the high side of all nine types. Like that is our lifelong journey. And the more types that you can resonate with, the better at ⁓ the better job you're doing at your life. journey really which is so cool.

speaker-0: Yeah, because there's such beautiful gifts with all of them and being able to navigate this world. And I think you explain so much. And I I hope that women who are listening can see, okay, maybe this is why I struggle to be consistent. Maybe you are a seven and you're finding that your plan is super boring and you need to spice it up or, you know, just maybe join a workout class or work with somebody who like lights you up but like just knowing your type can really help you identify how you're gonna be motivated to achieve your goal. So thank you so much Angie for sharing all the types. How would you encourage them to work with their personality type instead of like trying to fix themselves? Like like you mentioned the four like they're the weirdos like but you know on the outside society wise, like they're expected to conform and be a certain way, but we don't want them to be. Like we really want everyone to be their authentic true self. And so how can someone like a four or just someone in general who feels like, okay, I have this, I've identified with this type that you've explained. I've taken your quiz, like this is what I think I am. What can I do now to work with this personality type instead of trying to like fix myself? Does that make sense?

speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. So I love that question because I am a firm believer after doing so much of this work and working with so many people that everyone is misunderstood. Every single Enneagram type is a feels misunderstood by the world. And that is because we live in a w I mean, I guess I can mostly just speak for the United States, but I think a lot of p other places experiences too where we're made where our role is just to consume and work and consume and work until we die. And that is not what any Of us are actually put on this earth to do. So I do believe that we all feel deeply misunderstood and coming to terms with that and saying, Hey, I'm not the problem. I do live in a structure that is not meant for me, in a society that is not meant for me. And also, it's not meant for anyone else. Like, even the people who benefit from it the most are suffering. Like, no one is having a good time with their personality until they do this work and until they Claim themselves and work through that self-love journey. And so, what I would hope for everyone is in their learning, even just listening to this podcast episode, being inspired to not only figure out them their true self and hopefully figure out their Enneagram type, but if they don't do that, take away like every there are so many different types of people in this world, and all of these people deserve love, compassion, and consideration. And everyone has their special gifts and struggles. And all of that is. Really important and really valid, and no one is broken. Especially people out here trying to better themselves, like listening to this podcast. If you're listening to this podcast, you are not broken, you are not the problem. And also, it is your responsibility to advocate for yourself. And it is your responsibility to learn how to love yourself in a world that tells you you're unlovable. Because while, yes, our society might make you feel misunderstood and outcasted, there are so many. People who the ⁓ people who are listening to this right now, there are so many people in our lives who are going through the same thing who want to connect and want to support you. Like you have way more people who love you than haters out there. I promise you that. And so when you show up as yourself, that's step one. And then step two is really learning to love yourself, and then the pieces will fall into place. Like your ability to take care of yourself will fall into place when you can start to love yourself. And it doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't have to. You can love yourself just like a tiny bit more. A tiny little bit more each day, just like the smallest little hair, and you will see changes in your life and your and in your health.

speaker-0: And I like how you shared that many of the types have all these people that they care about, like that they want to take care of. And that when you show up in an energy of depletion and exhaustion, like that is contagious. And so when you are actually stopping and taking a step back and focusing on you in just any step, like you said, you show up in a different energy, and that energy is contagious. And that you are actually providing such a gift to the people around you when you are showing up in a good energy of being rested, of being happy, of not feeling so stressed out and depleted. Like that is really that's where it starts. It starts with us. When we want to help other people, it starts with us in order for us to help others.

speaker-1: Yeah I there is a phrase or a a concept that I think of all the time because we don't want the people who we love to feel like shit and feel like they have to put themselves last. We want the people that we love to put themselves first. Well we are somewhat we are loved by people too. And so no one is asking you to put yourself last. And if they are, then they shouldn't be in your life. And that's just the way that it is. We all want our loved ones to prioritize themselves and the listeners are included in that. Like we want you to prioritize yourself.

speaker-0: Yeah. And you said something earlier too about needing to delegate for I think it was type three or I I forget which type you said. All the types need to delegate. And and we don't feel like we can. We feel like, ⁓ I don't want to burden them and I don't I don't know who to ask. And there's always something that we can do to lighten the load and really kind of take inventory of that. Like if you're finding that you don't have enough time.

speaker-1: Yes, they do.

speaker-0: To take care of yourself, to prioritize yourself, to get your health started as your top priority, then look at some things that you can let go of. Like there's ⁓ I've talked about this before too, where I've said no to going to my son's football games. And, you know, other people would be like, ⁓ my gosh, you're a terrible terrible parent. You didn't show up. But it's like I I just couldn't. Like I had to rest and people understand. And when you do that, then you're modeling that for the people that you love, to do that too. Like, ⁓ it's okay. You know, we just we're in this fast paced world of go, go, go, go, go. And let's, you know, just keep trucking along and trying to keep up with the Joneses and everything. Like it's a lot. And if we take a step back and model that behavior, then it's kind of like a domino effect where other people will do the same. And yeah, it's it's just I think it's one of the hardest things for women to do is to rest, to take a break, right?

speaker-1: Yes. Yeah. And I love that you said I love that you said that it is a good model for other people. Because we do want everyone to learn that. We want our child the the younger generation to learn that. We want our friends to learn that. We want our partners to implement that. Like we want that for everybody. So that's a really beautiful way to say that.

speaker-0: And I think that's a great way to end. I feel like I could talk to you forever. I will invite you back and we can talk more about the Enneagram. So thank you so much, Angie, for sharing all the types and how we're wired, intrinsically wired. So can you tell people where they can find you?

speaker-1: Yes, okay, so they can find me on my podcast. I love to talk. It's called AnyGrim Ego Death and you can find Jenny there too. She's been on several times as our resident health coach type nine. And you can also find me at ⁓ the link that you'll put in the show notes for the quiz. That's a great way to find me. So those two places are the best way.

speaker-0: Yeah, I'll I'll put your website down ⁓ as well as the quiz. The quiz doesn't take long at all. It's super quick. And if they want to dive deeper, then working with you, I think would be a great option to really identify your type. And you also have another program that works with ⁓ women and helping them just really explore their their Enneagram type and how it the inner work to live a full life and to to live a happy life, right? We're all like you said, we're all just trying to you know, just be the best version versions of ourselves. And sometimes the world makes it very difficult for us to do that. So All right, Angie. Well thank you so much. And ladies, thank you so much for tuning in. And if you have listened to this podcast, you like it, if you can share it with a friend and subscribe so you don't miss another episode. I would love to see you at the next one. Take care. Bye for now.