Ju: Hello? How do you say Josefine? Josephine: Yeah, you can me either Joe or Josie or Josephine, nonsense, that's so super formal, nobody calls me that. Ju: So Joe, Joe and you. Okay, so and herewith welcome to our podcast, Mami Got a Paint. As you can it's the first podcast episode that we record and it's also a of a pilot episode, would say, or a test episode, because we both are it for first time and we've said for years that we're up for a podcast Josephine: Yeah. Honey and Nanny. Ju: we'll with us in the first test episode and yeah. Steigen einfach gleich mal ein, hätte ich gesagt. Josephine: I have myself, because you this for first time. You've an artist podcast. Ju: That's true, But in this duo... In this duo we're it for first time. But that's true. We can tell you who we are, where we come where we know from. And maybe it's also what you expect. It's also exciting We don't what's waiting Josephine: Directly in deep stacking here. ⁓ yes. Was euch hier wartet? Ju: If you want to, can to the people. Josephine: real is Josefine Sanja. I'm an artist, as Ju said, that's what the podcast title I'm 37 years old now. I live in southwestern France. And I have three children. Two are here. one is not with us. And... Yes, it's complicated, but whatever. I'll start... Right, we'll it detail. It's just a question for me. It's just difficult because I have three children, two children are visible and one... Whatever. So, Ju: Ja, versteh ich. Josephine: I'm artist and I paint. And put myself in my art with the identity of a black woman in a white majority society. And now it's always difficult to a podcast what it looks like, what you do. But would say my painting style is definitely very intuitive, very expressive. I paint large, large, large formats, with many colors and a energy. So. And you? Ju: I'm an artist too. My name is Jou Schnee. Actually, Julia Jäger. But before I got I my artist name. since I myself an artist, I'm Jou Schnee. I in Berlin and now in Vienna. I'm also mother of an eight-month-old son. Right. And life is really going because my son's really my whole life. I'm still the old one, course, but time division and everything is just... everything different. And if someone told me in pregnancy, like... Enjoy the peace, enjoy the time, it's to different. I thought, I'll my child to the studio and everything is as usual. But life has changed for the better, also fundamentally. But I'm also artist. I'm a mother. My art is rather abstract, very colourful. I work with abstract forms, with very organic forms that some describe as cringles. or sausages, there's no word for but they're just intuitive shapes that out of my hand. And they can in of and augmented reality. So those my three plug-in horses, I'd say. Joe and I met each when was that? In 2020, think. Josephine: I think I was pregnant and that was during Corona. ⁓ At Clubhouse, right? Clubhouse was also a Corona project, which people somehow met because they couldn't meet anymore. Ju: Hmm? Club pose? Exactly, And I remember, oh god, Clubhouse, I thought, this will never go it's so brilliant. I've been forward to Clubhouse rooms and listening them now it's completely gone from the picture, there's nothing left, right? Josephine: I think it was pretty fast that it was gone. I found it intense. I was looking but there was a pressure to in and talk to people. I think it was a corona thing. It was good and important but now you can meet and see Ju: That's right. Hmm. Josephine: when you back to the time, it all so absurd. I mean, we can only be that we didn't any children at because... If I imagine that I'm the two of for days and can't get and we can't any other children and go like, Ju: But tell me, how does your everyday life look like? ⁓ You go out ⁓ but generally with the kids, how does your everyday life look And also for you as an artist? ⁓ Josephine: So, maybe first of I have two boys and I thought the info would completely irrelevant, but meanwhile, since I really see my mom and my kids in care and I go and I see how girls behave and how boys behave, of course not all, but... Ju: Mm-hmm. Josephine: I say, for most part, ⁓ a whole different game. Good, but whatever. Ju: Mm-hmm. Josephine: One is four and half, the other one one and half, so an age difference of exactly three years. And in between, as I said, I a second child, but our second child unfortunately died after birth and that would three years old Exactly. Ju: Mm-hmm. Josephine: what does our everyday life We live here in France, that means the children go to school or to the kindergarten. France, the school starts at three years old and it's mandatory. And actually eight hours. So we bring one at 8.30 and then we it at 16.30 again. And Wednesdays is no school. parallel geht unser Kleiner in die Kita. ⁓ Und ja, vier Tage die Woche, acht Stunden. Und, ⁓ ja, manchmal... Ju: And is it like that Wednesday is not school or is it only in your school? Josephine: No, that's in France. But as I said, the days are really long. And I struggled but now I to Ju: Ah, it's exciting. Josephine: works really well We're the aliens because our children only a year or one half years. In France, it's sometimes the that children... It's actually the state's idea that children should after three months because they won't get parents' money So if you can't afford then you're forced to give and back to So, yeah, oh god, you can it. That's what this podcast is the constant struggle. Okay, I want to work and I love my job and I want to get and at the time want to my children and not miss And they're so exhausting. Oh god, oh god, oh oh oh oh Ju: Yeah. And at time, you have to money. At least that's the I'm same struggle as you. My son is eight months old and I'd love to 100 % mom. I with him because he's such cool developments and something new But the same time, I earn My husband and I are both independent. My husband is currently in his parents' time. theoretically. Because at the we're always looking at who has more projects, who has more to do and for me it's theoretically more to do But it's just so difficult because I really can't anywhere. It's also our podcast. think we have it from the point when we really decided to record We've two or three months because there's always something in But I think good that we just do because sometimes you just do Yes, and the care. I can that it's burden. think are mothers Some want their child to first two years alone and time with each other. But we will start the semester in September, sure he gets care. And unfortunately we yesterday. He was in July, so 14 months. Josephine: How old is he then again? Then he's already over a year old, Okay. Ju: So, yes, a over a year. But I notice now that when he's with other kids and he has things to play, new toys, he just blooms. He doesn't want to all the I think that's him and also social life, when he's with other kids. So would be now, but in Austria, would say, it's already early, Some say, wow, one year you're already in kindergarten. My husband and I also that we just to make that we back to work. And that's only if there's a care. Because we don't a family in Vienna. My parents are two hours away. And if it stressful, I go to my parents They can them and then can from there. But say that our everyday life it makes sense that we have a daily care And yesterday, unfortunately, Josephine: Yeah. Ju: got two orders from our two kindergartens, where we wanted most. That's our to-do for next week is to all kindergartens and see if we a place because we just help. Josephine: cross. Yeah, a struggle. What just came to my is that I spoke to a friend recently. She lives in Vienna, I'm sure. Her son is almost two old. She said, even though he's relatively tall, that she was told why the child isn't in care, why she's still hanging So I think you can't anything about You can't anything you just to do it. Ju: Yep. Stimmt. Mhm. Yes, full. And also what for the child. Because I think are kids who are really super happy at home. think, well, our son is just home, he just gets completely FOMO. We really make sure that we go with him to the playground or for walk, or to friends, or play dates and so on. And that's I think it's just a plus for if he's in a room with other kids and can play there and just a change. But every child is different. That's one sentence I've The sentences I've internalized are that every child is individually and that it's all a phase. Josephine: Yeah. It's a phase. you what? I also that only the children are individual, but also us parents. And what I've for last four and half years is there are simply no rules. And of course there are rules. Ju: No. Josephine: We don't to talk about not becoming and stuff But hey, what works or what works that's just the right thing. And we already know... what's the best for our children. And we forget that we also simply healthy. And that it also super important that you... Oh, I recently heard a great podcast about With Nora Imlau. I love her. She is actually journalist and has been about children's pedagogy and so on. And I it so much, because for example, it's not just about... the family life and somehow the child, but all the things that with it, like cleaning, cooking, washing, cleaning. mean, that alone is a full-time job. pressure that we have as women that everything has to be cleaned up and stuff that, I've too. So think I'm still pretty crazy about it, but that it's just okay. that the apartment is not tidy and that it's morally worse. Ju: Mmm. Mmm. ⁓ Josephine: I think really learned over time. Especially with two children. It just anymore. You don't a break. It's unbearable. You're tired and it goes on. And you want to sleep and it goes on. And you're sick and it goes on. And he's right. You say your parents are two hours away from you. Our grandparents live over 1,500 kilometers away us. And we're lucky because we have a new apartment here, or two new apartments. Together with my mom, bought them. And rest of the year and can support Yes, but it's also... I... It's... I feel... I don't know how people feel about it. Ju: ⁓ what a dream! It's a full-time job. My husband and I are always trying to new rules because we realize that certain things don't work anymore. Chaos is the first topic. Yesterday we a conversation again. We every other day about how we can The new rule is that I to sleep in he will up apartment. So we both have a task and then we're both done and can really sit on the couch But I'm you, next week there probably be a new rule because the sleeping times will change or whatever. But what I first time in my life is I got my cleansing power two weeks ago. Because I just can't... I can't keep up. I really to say it's... He's a lot now, extremely fast, he climbs up It's partly dusty and stuff, I don't I him to in the whole apartment without me being afraid that he'll of something. And I would say... Exactly. I would say it's normally clean with us, but certainly not super... ...easy, right? Not either. But anyway, we have... Josephine: He will die But too good if it's too clean. It's to in a stable. Ju: I grew at the and for first time in 15 years I an antibiotic. The doctor asked if I allergic to penicillin. I had no idea. It was first time I had an antibiotic. I was completely allergic to I don't to you what happened, but I learned I was allergic to penicillin. Josephine: Mmm. Cool. That interests me now, but... Ju: But yeah, we also a dog at he definitely so many dogs. But it was such a game changer She's the best woman, comes in the morning and I packed up and went to the playground. I think five hours. So was the first basic cleaning. And then we came home and it was a blast. It was a dream. Josephine: 5 hours? ⁓ Ju: And I think we'll it every two weeks or so, because it just my work. It's also working time for me at the moment. So you always to counteract From the time you clean or if you something else And yes, I've never... Josephine: Na klar. Maybe you can just relax and have more energy for your art and then... So, you know... Ju: Safe, Speaking of art, we talked little bit about our children's life. Do you have a working day or is it different for you How does it you? How can you imagine Josephine: I know routines are super important and super healthy, but we're just not the family that of super-duper-routine. So of day is structured by bringing children away, we change every day. And then it Then it's like this that I've the atelier directly to our apartment. so with me it's actually like this, I can I'm on my when I know I'm something. then... Well... Yeah, most cases it's exhibitions that are on. And example this year I had two exhibitions and the third is now starting in mid-April. But I my pictures yesterday and until then I really went and worked day. And yesterday I was like, I can't anymore. I think I'll it Ju: I'm just like you, I'm just like you. Josephine: And so it will be. I work there too. I try to Instagram and to care of the communication. Of course, are all the time. We have the podcast now and I have other recordings that are on. But for it's really like this. work in phases, give it a lot of and then I a break and then I other things. Then I a phase where I start painting then it's hard to get But also that I right. Somehow it's a bit of shame, because I often feel like I'm only on projects and don't time to new things. But if I time now I time for completely different things. I would like to sew and would like to the gun out But can't now. I really to Ju: I understand it like... Josephine: How about you? Ju: I understand it like... I think what you're about these extra miles, were five or ten years ago, that you say, okay, you've your thing, now I'll around or do this or that. In Berlin, example, there was the phase where I out augmented reality and, I more furniture and what not. And now think to when I'm done with something, I'm just so happy that I can chill And unfortunately... I usually on exhibitions, so I'm about to go speed. Then it's over, and then it's time But sometimes I to for myself. Just that are my head. Just to try things out. But now with my mom and stuff. As a mom, I think I'd rather... Safe. Maybe when he's in kindergarten, I don't Josephine: Man hat halt auch immer was zu tun. Ju: I'm a deadline person, no matter if it's exhibitions or other projects. I don't just art. I some collaborations. You us it's you. I'm between the and the art market. I projects that fit me an artist. But I'd say it's 50-50. After I'm done with the exhibitions... I can sit again and the commercial projects. That's I like to Josephine: Now I a question about it with your commercial projects. I have this a while now and it was so much fun for because it's a different input and completely different work. But I think for one and half years now, nothing, nothing Ju: Ah, really? Okay. I think it would be an exciting podcast episode about commercial projects or the mix or the symbiosis or whatever, fight between art and commercial world. But in the meantime, I've had smaller social media projects. The bigger campaigns have also decreased. And year it's very, very bad. Josephine: But wait a had this fat Tiffany campaign last year, ⁓ okay. Ju: Exactly, that was last year. It was great. Then I got and then my son was There was no time for anything. Now I'm to get in, but this year very difficult. I that, because of world is developing, companies don't any budgets or less budgets. Then I'm in Germany anymore, but in Vienna. Josephine: Yeah. Ju: The market is much smaller than the German All in all, it's really difficult Our manager is in Berlin, so Henrik. I think we him in Berlin. Or I don't about you, you can tell me. But because he's in Berlin, I'm lucky to many German jobs, almost only German and hardly anything Austria because here it happens Josephine: Okay, exciting. it's definitely useful when you're art to up a second base. Ju: I think it's really difficult because the art world is always at very strictly. At least in Austria. think Vienna is more conservative and more traditional. And everything is very academic. And if you something in commercial area or in advertising, then you sometimes get a stamp. And think it's very, very difficult because I try to connect that and just show that both are possible. But sometimes I feel like as an artist you have to in a chamber and your art, even if you don't any money, just work and work and work until you money with your art. And I'm a fan of that you say, hey, if it works out and it just you, let's do it. we all have to, or at least I have to, earn And often the commercial projects are simply better paid. And then can on the art again and the money in it. Josephine: Yeah. I think, somehow, anyway, this whole art thing, as you already said, we have to talk it long and broad. But that's just, well, you have to look who is there somehow judges. And that's just so realistic that artists are just artists and lead a super precarious life and somehow bread and water with And yet also super creative or can be, as always. I think that's totally... I feel really bad when I think And somehow I decided that I all that shit, Ju: Mm. Josephine: I just what I want. And honestly, the people who watch my they anyway. So at that time the professor at the art university already said here Lukas, he's cultivating his art. And then I thought, fuck you, honestly. Ju: Yeah, and Lukas will his way, but you will your way. Josephine: I have pictures in museums and Lukas doesn't. I love Lukas. I love Lukas so But you know, it's just about what you do and what jobs you have, but also how you paint. How many references you have, if you're a woman, how old you are. I mean, I'm to be 40 now. I'm black, still. It's just, you know, we can... No if we each as mother or an artist, we can only things wrong ⁓ And that's why fuck it. We just to make sure that we're happy that it ⁓ works ⁓ Ju: also our podcast. We are artists, but we don't to everything so strict in this art environment. We just want to talk, we want to tell what our everyday about. We just want to talk to each other. Josephine: I just to talk. Yeah, no, but I mean, I think you feel the same We just our art. And who can tell us what our art is? And to our art, we to earn We're not so blessed. I I'm definitely blessed and privileged. And I some of support from my family and stuff. And yet I my livelihood somehow and I can't just paint, paint, paint, paint and it doesn't if someone buys and it doesn't matter if the end of the month. No, it's not that. And to paint you sometimes to compromises. And why is it more to in a café or to work than to advertising and Ju: Klar. Yeah, but me, also. Das frage ich mich so oft. Josephine: art more Ju: to make Exactly, full. But let's the topic for our own episode. I think it's very exciting. generally, it's just the test episode, so I'm really curious what you think, if we any categories, you want to, if you have if there's anything we can Because would say we're still pretty open. I mean, what's is that we're here and chatting about our lives. But if you any ideas or wishes, whatever it is, you can contact us via the information in the... How do you How are there still newbies in the caption? In the show notes. And of course via Instagram and so on. We're forward to Just brief. Exactly. Josephine: show notes. in our PNs. Yes, exactly. I also noticed We even have... I don't were even pregnant. We wanted to podcast Ju: Yeah, safe. And I so much more time. Anyway, it's that we're now, because now I how my time division really And it well. But I know we talked it first time. think it's been two years. think it's really been so long. Time passes so quickly. And we've it would funny. You have to know, we've through Clubhouse. Then we met in Germany, in Hamburg, remember, and in Berlin. Partly at your exhibitions. Or if it was we've already each in person. Josephine: Yeah. No. No. Ju: But we actually more phone contact. We didn't each a few months and then we called It took We what we should be, what we should be back generally about the art world and commercial projects and how we can Instagram. We talked and called At the phone callers always thought that we could a microphone on. I think it's so exciting for others. Josephine: Yeah. Ju: artists, moms or just people who are interested in the topic. And yes, think we've let's do it and now we're it. Josephine: And today we did it! What is Midlisness Rot in the calendar? The 25th of March, 2026. The beginning of a big podcast. Ju: It's not the 26th Yeah, but today is the 26th. it. ⁓ Well, I think this a good first step, a good start. think it good so this half an hour. And maybe we should it for the first time. Josephine: Full? We've for half an hour! Crazy! Leave at Well Ju: Well I'm forward to the next time and yes, above all, I'm forward to your feedback. Josephine: That was really nice. I'm forward to everything and... Bye! Ju: Okay, good, bis dann, ciao!