Karen Edwards: Welcome to Roofing Road Trips, the podcast that takes you on a thrilling journey across the world of roofing. From fascinating interviews with roofing experts to on-the-road adventures, we'll uncover the stories, innovations, and challenges that shape the rooftops over our heads. So fasten your seatbelts and join us as we embark on this exciting roofing road trip. All right, hello everyone, and welcome back to another roofing road trip episode from rooferscoffeeshop.com. My name is Megan Ellsworth, and I am here today with my friend Jordan, the executive director of Rakawi, and my new friend Andre from the Oak Ridge National Lab. And we're talking all things Rakawi Fall Seminar. So you all have the fall seminar coming up, I believe, next month already. I'm so excited. So Jordan, can you start us out by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about Rakaui, what it stands for, all that good stuff. Of course, yeah. Yeah. So happy to be here, Megan. Thanks for that. my name's Jordan Loudon. I'm executive director of Rakaui Inc. I've been in the role since twenty eighteen and it's been a lot of learning and a lot of you know, great networking and great people. And I think that's the one thing that most of our members would say. it's maybe their favorite or the best aspect to of being a Rikawi member for them is just the networking, the people, the conversations that is shared. Remember, we all get together. And Rikawi stands for Roofing Industry Committee on Weather Issues. A little bit of a mouthful, but Rikawi for short, of course. and yeah, we've been around since the 90s and I'm that's why I'm glad that Andre is here today because he's was one of those original people in the room. and you know, of course I was not. so it's gonna be really exciting. I'm excited to hear that you know, kind of history maybe a little bit more than what you normally get, just the snippets of whenever we get together. So yeah, I'll leave it there and pass it over to Andre. Amazing. Well, thank you, Jordan, for being here. Andre, welcome to the show. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself and Oak Ridge National Laboratories? Sure. first my name is Andre Desjard. I am the residential program manager for building envelope energy efficiency at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. ORL is a Department of Energy funded research organization, one of 17 research institutes that are spread out across the US. And all of the different national laboratories have different areas of expertise and one of the areas of expertise that resides at ORL is building envelopes. so we're involved in research associated with roofs, walls, foundations, fenestration, building equipment, building appliances, pretty much anything that inside of building that would would use energy. And our focus is primarily is to try to make the operation of a building and the purchase of a building affordable so that more people can afford to move into i move into a a a single family residence. So I've been so important involved in buildings research since the early seventies actually. And I was a consultant for twenty years and now I've been at Oak Ridge for a little over thirty years. So so I'm the old guy. No, you're the experienced guy. I love it. That's awesome. Okay, so you Jordan, you kind of told us what Rakawi stands for, the acronym. but for those that out there that aren't familiar about or familiar with Rakawi, can you explain what the organization does and how the seminars that you host kind of play what their purpose and play is within the roofing industry. Sure, absolutely. So you know, we we have our membership base and our membership, we have 14 sponsoring members, which are the large associations that most people within the roofing industry are familiar with. And I'd say the building envelope industry as well. SPRI, CFFA, coded fabric, coded fabrics and associations, we have SPFA, we have tile. metal, you know, so awesome. All of the players, the key players are there at our swamp string members. And then our affiliate members are made up of you know, really a range. It's anywhere from architects to engineers to consultants, you know, to manufacturers and and so it's a great variety. And I've often heard often I'll hear people say whenever they get into a room, you know, you've never most other events, you don't have these same people in the room having, you know, dialogue and you know, conversing, sharing and not, you know, it's not a competitive, it's not a pointing fingers, it's not I'm better than you. It's collaborative, it's, you know, educational. And it's a place where people come, you know, agendas for the most part, I'd say maybe some every now and then, but really agendas are left at the door and it's just a place to come and learn and share. So I think that's the thing that makes Ricali so special. my understanding is, and again I've I'm sure we'll get to hear from it a little bit in depth From Andre, but my understanding is that the, you know, the kind of main thing that Rikawi kind of got its foot in the door and its place as a reputable rep reputable organization within the roofing industry are the and post-storm investigations. and so we really focus on severe weather and how severe weather impacts roof performance. And in the past, it's typically been focused on hail and wind. So after a large hail storm or a big windstorm. you know, typically hurricanes, but, you know, Derechos and stuff might come into play eventually. But it's been focused on hail and wind in the past and we'll deploy a team of, you know, of Rikawi members and some maybe local you know, people that are local to the area and we'll get permission to access buildings, assess the damage, collect data, and then we'll publish the data for free on our website in the reports. And yeah, and and like I said, you know, People come into Rikawi without agendas. Rakawi's only agenda is to enhance and improve roof performance, you know, commercial and residential. Yeah. So that's what people really appreciate. Rikawi is that, you know, our reports are non biased. They just present the data and the facts, with the hope that it changes code for the better, you know, it changes building roof performance for the better. and and so our seminars are twice a year. We have our spring and the fall seminar in the spring, we buddy up with ibex so wherever ibex going you can catch for Kawi a day or two before. And we always have educational offerings, whether that's a tour like we'll be doing in the fall or speakers that are, you know, on emerging and relevant topics to be shared with the audience. And then like I said, the fall, we're on our own. We don't, you know, partner with a large association. So we get to pick and choose. and that's when, you know, back when we were planning where should we go for the fall of twenty twenty six. you know, I think one of our board members bumped into Andre and Andre said, you know, come on by. And so that's how we ended up back at Oak Ridge, for this fall seminar. So and that's what that's what some people really enjoy. I think the tour, you know, everybody loves a great presentation. but the tours are really from the feedback that I've heard what people really take away from and yeah appreciate with Rekowie. Yeah. So I just I ever since my first Rakaway meeting, I think it's so cool how Rakawi sends teams out after huge, you know, meter meteorological events. Man, say that word five times in a row. Meteorological sense. I just think that I think that's so cool because we're boots on the ground seeing immediate damage and and immediately seeing what how the roof is responding, how the building is responding to this trauma, basically. And to like you to your point, to be able to then kinda give the industry, the roofing industry, the building envelope industry, those unbiased reports for for free, just because like out of the goodness of your hearts and in passion, it that is so powerful and can play a huge part in innovation for the roofing industry, like you said. Andre, so Jordan said you were kind of here from the beginning. Can you tell us how tell us about Rakowi's relationship with Oak Ridge, and why it remains so important? you know, Rikowi I think was founded in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew that you know hit Miami or just south of Miami back in I don't remember the year now, nineteen ninety one, early nineteen nineties. And there was huge devastation in terms of, you know, building damage. Yeah. and and of course everybody was pointing fingers at everybody else saying, you know, this is all your fault. And so there was discussions amongst the the roofing industry associations about maybe we ought to get together and talk about this. And O R and L being kind of a an unbiased party volunteered space to to have this have this meeting. And the meeting was held and what what we found out was that, you know, as Jordan pointed out, these different associations that represent different products could actually get along. and and there was a, you know, a an interest amongst all parties to figure out why did all this damage occur. Is it our materials? Is it the way they're constructed? Is the code in insufficient? you know, what's happening? So because the meeting was successful, they decided, well, maybe we ought to meet on a regular basis. And and that kind of became very quickly a nonprofit organization called Rakawi. and so, you know, or involved primarily because, you know, Our interest is in making buildings energy efficient, durable and affordable. And you know, besides mortgages and taxes and and now insurance, one of the major costs of of of a building is the operations, the the energy and then maintenance and repair. And if we can make buildings more durable, reduce maintenance, make them more energy efficient, then we've reduced the s you know, substantial cost of of home o building ownership and that's that was our focus and Rikawi was playing in our in playing in our sandbox. So it's like, okay, let's let's all get together and we can work together and try to come up with some solutions. And and from that the idea of our respon we responded to Hurricane Andrew well after the fact. So it wasn't like we could go examine building damage, but the the thought was exactly what y'all were talking about earlier, which is Let's go see. You know, and one of the benefits that Oran L was able to afford Rakawi was that we were a government agency and were granted access to hurricane zones much earlier than the general public was. So we kind of got there before all the repairs were being made, which obviously is important if you want to see what's what went wrong. Exactly. Get there after it was fixed, right? So access to the sites was something that we were able to assist with and and we benefited by being able to interact with all of these really smart people who represent all these, you know, different products. and that increased our knowledge base as well. So it was you know a synergistic relationship. That's so cool that it it it came out of you know, such strife out of such a huge hurricane that caused so much damage because I just am always fascinated about how innovation kind of comes out of those moments of strife and hardship. so it's cool to see, you know, in the roofing industry too, we're we're we're still doing that. okay, so the seminar is this fall. It's gonna be at the Oak Ridge National Laboratories in East Tennessee. What are some of the major topics and issues you guys are gonna be talking about this fall? I know there's probably a laundry list, but what are some of the top ones? Jordan, that's you wanna answer that or nope. Go ahead, Andre. She knows that I like to talk, so if you haven't figured that one out yet, perfect. So I guess one of the benefits of of having the the meeting near Oak Ridge is we have a a fairly substantial research portfolio of in in the buildings area. And being close by means that several of my colleagues can participate in in in these in these meetings and share the research that they're they're doing. And Jordan, I didn't do my homework and I don't remember exactly what our our our our contributions are, but I'll start and then you can fill in the blanks. so myself, I'm going to talk about roof recover. there's we don't do a lot of that because it's there's a little bit of risk associated with that. And, you know, industry tries to stay away from risk. But there's so much benefit in doing a roof recover that I think we need to be a little bit more selective and instead of just tearing everything apart and throwing it all away. I think we need to think about or come up with a mechanism for figuring out, well, I can do s do something that's less destructive here. And so I'll be talking about that. One of my colleagues is going to be talking about fire testing. Obviously with all the wildfires and all your neighbors have them. trying to make buildings more resistant to fire is a topic that is of interest. again, you know, addressing durability and of course trying to control insurance costs. another another f one of my colleagues is going to be speaking about automating construction practices, using robots, to do all sorts of stuff. install shingles, install single ply membranes, install roofing panels, but shifting over to using automation to improve the efficiency of the construction practice is again a way of reducing the first cost of the building. And what have I forgotten, Jordan? you have Well, did we you mentioned the automation, I have the waste derived, halogen free flame retardants. Did you mention that already? Yeah, that's right. That's right. So again along in alliance with fire, most of the flame retardants that we use in our building materials today are are fairly toxic. And one of the the findings out of some of the early wildfires in California were that the areas that were destroyed the buildings that were destroyed by fire left quite a bit of toxic residue and the cost of reclaiming that land was pretty pretty substantial. So can we come up with fire retardants that are more benign, I guess, is is another area of Trying to address the issue of improving fire performance. So really huge hot button topics there that matter to the everyday contractor, really. I mean, with the technology through robots, AI, all that kind of stuff, automation on the roof, that's huge to talk about and see what other people are hearing coming down the pipeline. Like you said, the fire, fire retardants. Fire resistant buildings, and then roof restoration and recover, I think, is a a really great topic that you guys will be discussing because you're so right, the landfills are filling up, you know, and we need to be a little more conscious. So a very large percentage of the work that contractors do you know, involve replacing the existing roof and if we can be a little smarter about deciding whether what's there can be salvaged or not, instead of just assuming that we're gonna throw it all away, I think would be a big step forward to reducing construction waste. So Yeah. This is so great because we're we're we're we're touching all of these topics right now and For everyone attending the Rakawi seminar, you're gonna it's gonna be full sessions on these topics. You know, we're just touching the tip of the iceberg right now. And so this is this October, right, Jordan? It's actually the very first week of November. yeah, the very first week of November. It's Tuesday and Wednesday, November third and fourth. Amazing. Amazing. and people I'm assuming can still sign up to attend. And and they should. They absolutely should. Yeah. yeah. And so I'll just speak a little bit more t to the details of the seminar. So we are gonna be just outside of Oak Ridge, Turkey Creek, I think. Andre, that's the hotel that's where we booked our hotels in Turkey Creek there. And so that's where our hotels will be. Was that? Yeah, it's West Knoxville. Okay, West Knoxville, there you go. it'll be my first time to Tennessee, so I'm looking forward to that. Congrats. Yeah. But so typically in the past we will have our two day seminars. One day is dedicated to the Rikawi committee meetings and our committees range from underlayment to code to membership to conference. So there's, you know, it runs the gambit, but people kind of find their place and some like to sit in on all of those. So you have the option too. and then the second day, w the other day, whether it's first or second, will be our educational seminar day. But once we got started talking with Andre, we realized the length and breadth of all of the offerings that they can. So we are going to actually have both days are gonna consist of educational offerings for the Rick Cattleby Falls Falls seminar. And I'm glad to either you asked about if people could still register, Megan. You still can. There's nine spots left for the if you are interested, please sign up sooner rather than later. And whether or not we hit our capacity of sixty or we meet the deadline of October twelfth. October twelfth is the last day that we can read that somebody could register to attend the tour. Got it. or, you know, if it happens that we reach capacity before then. So it's really if you are interested, I really strongly encourage you to go to our website. It's just www.rekawi r-i-c-o-wi dot com to register. and so that first day, in addition to all of our really, you know, experienced and expert ORNL speakers, we're also going to have somebody from the NFPA, the National Fire Protection Association, coming and speak. So I just wanted to mention that as well. We'll have the ORNL, but we'll have NFPA there as well. And that is on our first day on Tuesday. Tuesday's gonna be the committee day. but in the morning we have three presentations. So again, if even if you miss the deadline, you know, we reach capacity and you can't attend the tour at Oak Ridge, still come on Tuesday because you're gonna be hearing from, you know, the Oak Ridge experts. on Tuesday. And then that afternoon we'll run into the Rikowie committee meetings, code, underlayment, storm and our storm investigation program. And that evening we'll have a fun Rikawi Foundation fundraiser event. John Cook, the the executive director of the Rakawi Foundation, does a great job of planning fun, casual, awesome networking octo opportunity events. There's gonna be live music, and of course raffles and prizes and people typically have a great time. and Andre will be there, so it's a guaranteed great time. And then they s they serve wine Megan, so I will be there. Man, I wish I could be there. That's awesome. I make a pitch for the tour is if I can do that. Yeah. So yeah. yeah, we the tour is going to include a lot of the research facilities that we had and We get involved in testing little pieces of material on a bench top to whole buildings. And we have facilities at the laboratory to do that. we actually have two commercial buildings that are unoccupied that we practice our voodoo science on to see if we can improve their energy efficiency. But besides that, the laboratory was actually originally founded as part of the Manhattan Project. No way. And the first nuclear reactor that went critical is about two hundred yards from my office here. I can see it from my window if if if I got up there and looked in that right direction. and all of the nuclear materials that were used in the bombs that were dropped during World War Two were actually produced. at this facility here. So we're gonna tour the reactor. it's it's a what do they call it? Historical site now, I guess. But one of my colleagues has been learning the history of of the lab and it's it's it's it's pretty interesting. that's fascinating. it was farmland and and and and a year later there's a nuclear reactor and 75,000 people working here. so yeah, it's it's it's like unbelievable. So we'll include that and and some other there's a a big facility that looks at automating manufacturing and we'll be touring that facility as well. So there's some building science, there's some history, there's some manufacturing demonstrations that we'll we'll be showing folks during the tour at at at the laboratory. Very cool. Very cool. I love it. Wow. Well, I know that our Karen Edwards is going to be attending the seminar. I'm I'm a little jealous now hearing about this. but it sounds like it's just gonna be a fabulous educational, communal experience. So I I really highly recommend everyone sign up and get those last nine spots while you can. W I wanted to ask, what role do Rakawi's sponsoring organizations and affiliate members play in making these events valuable and adding to the education? Well, on our committee meeting day, we also have the Rikowie membership meeting, as well as the Rakawi Foundation annual general meeting. And at the Rakaui membership meetings. which is happening on Tuesday, November third. And the tour is happening on Wednesday. So come on Tuesday and then, you know, you get to stay for the tour on Wednesday. But part of the agenda for the Rikawi membership meeting is each sponsor will get up and give a sponsor report. So they'll, you know, list out and share what's going on that's relevant, of course, to Rikawi in their industry. And I've not every time, but almost every time I'll have somebody, whether it's a first timer or, you know, A member that's been coming and coming, they just get up and express, you know, to me or just in general how valuable that information specifically is to just hear, you know, from the metal guys, like I said, the metal tile, sp spray foam all just to hear and you know, to know and it just come from a representative from that organization. and you know, I think in terms of the affiliates, it's because there's a variety of you know, people in the room in terms of profession and what they're there representing. it just again gives space for collaboration, networking and just learning something, you know, from somebody that maybe out in the real world, whenever you're, you know, not at a Rickowie event, might not have spoken to or, you know, the opportunity might not have come up for you to to share, you know, something with a maybe a a competitor, quote unquote competitor. Yeah. You know, like Andre was saying. So Yeah. So it's it's n it's not, you know, it's not siloed, it's not the Rikawi leadership making, you know, decisions and behind closed doors. It's really open conversations with the organization as a whole. Yeah. Ugh, I'm so excited for you guys. So beyond the fall seminar, what are some ways roofing professionals can get involved with Rikowi and start joining events, contributing to the organization's work? and just being involved. Yeah. I mean, we always accept member accepting members anytime, any day. and that information is on our website as well. and so whenever you're a member, you're able to join the various committees and participate in those. of course, we send out emails that are, you know, just to members giving updates on various Cowelly updates or relevant membership updates. a a recent committee that's been formed, of course, out of the emergence of the recent wildfire, you know, just devastation and yeah frequency, is the wildfire resistant roofing committee. And so when that, you know, when that committee formed, it was like, you know, people rush rushed to to join that committee. We had a bunch of new members sign up and it's just again the testament to Rikawi wanting to be there at the table, having relevant conversations, in the way that we do that by having, you know, a variety of people there to contribute and share. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. So Andre, I have one more question for you. If someone out there is somehow still on the fence on whether they want to go to the fall seminar or not, what would you tell them they can expect from the experience and and maybe get them to what would you say to convince them to come? I don't think it weren't gonna be any hard questions, but no, that's okay. I think that the research that that's ongoing here is trying to kinda improve the state of the art. I don't think that folks would be able to see the things that we're doing or get involved in the projects that we're involved in. anywhere else in in the US. So if you want to kind of get a a view of the future, or p the possible future, then I think you know, coming to the seminar would be would be worthwhile. So it's like a crystal ball, right? You get to you get to see what's gonna happen. Absolutely. It totally is. It's a crystal ball and also like a notepad. Because you're jotting down all the ideas that are coming from the crystal ball. and it's really cool to be in that collaborative environment. So I'm so excited for you guys to kick off the fall seminar a month after next. Jordan, any last words on where people can find more information or sign up for the fall seminar? Yeah, so like I said, our website just is www.rekawi.com and Rakawi is R-I-C-O-W-I. And You know, we have a banner right on our homepage with information to sign up for the fall seminar. so go ahead and do that. We're social media is not, you know, we're not huge on social media. You guys do an amazing job, but we don't we don't have Megan. So we don't have we're we're on LinkedIn though. We post frequently on LinkedIn and then MailChimp will send out emails through that as well. And so you can sign up for our email list. again on our website is is there. So yeah, most of it's on our website, but it's, you know, it's laid out pretty easily and simple. but if you ever have any questions, you can email me or reach out to me. I don't know, Megan, if you put my email in the podcast description or not. Yeah, I totally can. Okay. Yeah. It's just J Lemkey at Rikawi.com and that's L E K E. But yeah, happy to answer any questions that anybody might have. But yeah, our website is The best place I think to find information. Yeah, about Rakawi and events in general. Perfect. Well, I hope you all have a blast in Tennessee next month or month after next. And say hi to Karen for me. And everyone out there, please go to the Rakawi directory on rooferscoffeeshop dot com as well. there's a big old button that says register here for the fall seminar. And it's hard to miss, so go check it out. Sign up, get one of those last nine spots for the fall seminar this year in 2026. And thank you, Andre and Jordan, for chatting with me today. My pleasure. Thank you. Thanks, Megan. Thanks everyone for listening. This has been another great episode and great road trip on Roofing Road Trips from RoofersCoffe Shop dot com. We'll see ya on the next one. If you've enjoyed the ride, don't forget to hit that subscribe button and join us on every roofing adventure. Make sure to visit rooferscoffeeshop.com to learn more. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next roofing road trip.