speaker-0: I might not have lived. And it looked like AI. Have you seen it? It looks like AI. The one have we seen it? Have we seen the video? Yeah. But it looks it looks like it's AI. I've seen 'cause they sent me the video through and it looks like and people are going is that

speaker-1: You might be superimposed but you're there.

speaker-0: Five o'clock in the morning I had to climb out the top. You've been to the London night. Yeah. I had to climb out the top of the pod right on top. I'm not in it. Yeah, I did a wrap on the bonkers. It's crazy. Yeah, the drone was coming along. ⁓ it's my phone. There's my phone there. Show you video. Ridiculous. Shit myself. And I thought they said they're gonna go in a cage, and I thought the cage was like that, but it wasn't. The cage was just there and I hold it on. Like a harness.

speaker-1: Did you? You

speaker-0: What nice day to die.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: Crazy. And I don't like heights either to be honest with you. We only got seven kids, Simon, you gotta keep working, mate, you know that. That's when I was in it. That's inside.

speaker-1: ⁓ my god, that's funky.

speaker-0: After finish video.

speaker-1: ⁓ my god. Rather you than me. you

speaker-0: Five o'clock in the morning that was. What they were doing, that was a that was like a cappella group who threw the World Cup. They're having people come and sing songs in the pod. Obviously not on top, but that's a PR for it. So they said go on top of the pod. So they said to me, ⁓ right, so you went. Okay. ⁓

speaker-1: ⁓ my god.

speaker-0: Can only hold fourteen stone. That's what they said, this thing, right? I'm like sixteen stone. So I said to them, I'm fifteen stone, I like I'm fifteen stone, that's it. So it's gonna be alright, right? So that's what they said. This is two weeks before I did it. So I said I'm fifteen stone. They ⁓ it'd be alright, you've got but it only holds fourteen stone. Are you fourteen stone? No, I'm fifteen stone. So the day before, I had to then phone the ⁓ they phoned me for a a check, HR or whoever it is, you know what mean? So I've been speaking to them for like two weeks. They phoned me, they said, right. So they're writing all this down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Side, si, side. So and they said, So you are 14 stone. I went, I'm not. I said, hang on a second. Are you trying to get me to say on the phone I'm 14 stone? So when I die, I I was 14 stone. I said, No, I'm 15 stone. So you know I'm 15 stone. So never mind trying to say. I said, I've been telling you this for two weeks. How many times you want me to 14 stone? I'm not. They said, ⁓ all right. Yeah.

speaker-1: That's how many times. Yeah Welcome back to Defend and Attack with Mr John Barnes and myself Simon O'Brien supported by Soccer Speaker. If you want this lovely fella or say Kenneth Alglish or Stephen Janard or even a few Avatorians to talk at any of your events then have a look at SoccerSpeaker.co.uk Yeah, that'll do it. Join the welcome.

speaker-0: Loving the World Cup. Not the politics, but loving the World Cup. I'm loving Donald Trump as well to be with you, because it just makes me laugh every time, you know.

speaker-1: It just gets... John, you're gonna get us barred from America?

speaker-0: I think I'm already borrowed from America but no. ⁓ I'm listen, so many World Cups. I remember the one in Qatar. It gets quite contentious depending on where it is because people are trying to make something of nothing. Yep. So everyone gets all nervous about what's gonna be like. But once the football starts, yeah. It's fantastic. All the all all the countries.

speaker-1: It is. You know, the stuff with Trump, that's just bonkers in it.

speaker-0: Well, this is what this is what we do. This is what we do. All we need is Nigel for us to get involved and then we've got a full setup. It was funny because you remember when ⁓ the American lad got back in and it was like, ⁓ yeah, well maybe we can do that with Kwanzaa. Okay, no Kwanzaa is b banned yet. Yeah, exactly. You've got two game banned now, not one. No but nobody only had a one game band. Now they made it two. So let's try it. So no, that's not for us.

speaker-1: You I'm gonna in patrol. I reckon that everyone, the whole world must have been willing Belgium to win.

speaker-0: ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And the thing about it is that, you know, because ⁓ and so many Americans, because they don't really understand football, they can't believe that they've been knocked out. Why aren't when we're America? Why aren't we great? And everybody's trying to analyze it. Well, you know, ⁓ that's just that's just the way it is because they're rubbish, aren't they? So what can you do? They can't win everything, can they?

speaker-1: and had some great stories as well, the Cape Verde stuff. Everyone's gone and holding to Cape Verde.

speaker-0: But you know, think about it is that this is the way football is going. As much as I've always said this, you're gonna get like look at Morocco, how far they went, and we've seen it before, and then look at Cape Verde, and you could look at Ghana against England and the way that teams play. Once upon a time, you beat them five and six. Whereas now, what has happened is that these teams have now got better. A lot of their players have got European experience, they're getting more organized because they always had talent. African teams always had great skillful players, but they're getting more organized, they're getting more professional, they're getting more experienced of coming to Europe, and we always think because of They have physicality that every single World Cup comes along, someone's gonna do something. But ultimately, when you're getting down to and we're not there yet, but when you're getting down to the semifinals and stuff like that, it's gonna be the same old.

speaker-1: Go on. ⁓

speaker-0: Of course Germany have gone out, Holland have gone out. Sorry, the Netherlands have gone out. But ultimately it is still gonna be the same old faces. Brazil have gone out, but you know, we're looking at Norway possible. Hopefully not. ⁓ until last night Morocco. ⁓ so there are one or two, you may say, surprises, but ultimately when it gets down to the semi-final and final, it did it's not gonna change. And and and and the top South American teams. You Brazil have gone out, but Argentina are still there. ⁓ Colombia have gone out, but it's it's gonna be, you know, Argentina, Brazil and the European teams.

speaker-1: It's the Europeans, it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. tell you what I have really found fascinating is that this is the World Cup where all the big names turned up. It may be Ronaldo and not so much, but everyone else is just all...

speaker-0: Ronaldo, feel so sorry for Portugal. I saying this so far. This is gonna be a this for me is gonna be a lost generation of Portuguese players. 'Cause when you look at like Vitinho and people like that who won a Champions League and then you have obviously, you know, the players they have who are fantastic, you know Ronaldo inhibits them. Yeah. You talk about these players, Bruno Fernandez, you got so many good players at Portugal and You look at Gonzalo Ramos who comes on and scores, comes on and scores, comes on and scores. They he should be playing. He doesn't play. He stick with Ronaldo. And these players now in their twenty-nine thirty, this is gonna be their last World Cup. And this Portuguese team, without Ronaldo, I think would have had a fantastic chance of winning. I've said it before and but you know, he just has these these fans and this power.

speaker-1: love that. You're one of the few people who would be bold enough to say, yeah, drop it, I'll do it.

speaker-0: Would I be brave enough to do Fairworth Martinez? But I'll tell you who would, Thomas Tuchel. Because Thomas Tuchel doesn't take he doesn't he he does he's his own man, he does what he wants. He didn't take Foden and and and Cole Palmer, and if we lose, he's gonna get criticized, but he doesn't care. He does it. And Celotti would have done it. You know, so Martinez really just, you know, and it's a sh it's not a shame because you can never tell what what would have happened. But I'm just looking at that Portuguese team player for player. And you're thinking if they had Ramos as center forward who scores goals and he came on and scored in the World Cup but he didn't even come on in the last round. And of course I'm gonna get lots of stick or Ronaldo has his fans. And he criticize You criticize Ronaldo and and you're in trouble. But I just feel sorry for the rest of the Portuguese team.

speaker-1: the whole. One ego can inhibit a team coming.

speaker-0: Well it depends on the ego. Cause Messi is a different ego. 'Cause the players love Messi because he's more humble, he respects his teammates more, he doesn't complain when he don't pass to him, he doesn't throw his hands in the earth if anything goes wrong. So you can have a superstar, you can have an ego, but you have to also have that relationship with your teammates, which I don't think Ronaldo has.

speaker-1: look at those superstars you just mentioned Messi you know you're Mbappe, Kane unquestionably,

speaker-0: Well, that's what I mentioned France. I mentioned France. And that's why I think France are the strongest team and I think they'll win. Because they respect their teammates and the French ⁓ flag, the French team, the French culture. Because I'm looking at Mbappe for Real Madrid and he's a bit of a sycophant and he's like, I'm superstar. But when they play for France, he plays properly for France and he respects his teammates. Dembele, who is the European player of the year, won the Ballon d'Or. But he is subservient to Mbappe in the in in in the in the in the French team. He doesn't feel I'm the s I Mbappe didn't win the European player of the year I did, so therefore it's all about me. But he says, Okay, I'm gonna play on the right, and Bappe does what he does and he Elise and then he got players like Dewey and Barcala and you know, they're just

speaker-1: Well, I'll tell you, I called one because at our time I was watching the ⁓ Norway-Brazil match with my missus and it was nil-nil at half time and I went, Harland will score. Brazil have got to do something here because he will score. I didn't think he'd get a brace in that matter then.

speaker-0: Well, Brazil were disappointing. You know, we always expect from Brazil. But then looking at the Brazil team, because it's Brazil, it's in that hemisphere as much as it's North America, but they won the last time in North America and it's in their part of the world. Lots of Brazilian fans. And we just love Brazil 'cause of the history and the tradition of Brazil. So we love Brazil. But looking at that player for player, that Brazilian team ain't great. You know, got Casimires still playing in there, Paqueta who was at West Ham and you know, ⁓ th so so if you look at them player for player, they're not a great team. But that's since they're Brazil we expected them. And in many respects you look at Norway and Norway dominated possession against Brazil. Norway don't even play that way. So ⁓ as much as I I'm glad they went out 'cause we would have been playing him in the next in in this round, I think Norway would be a harder a harder game than the Brazil game.

speaker-1: But at least we understand the Norwegian players a lot more.

speaker-0: Well if you understand Well we understand Hardon, six foot five, quick, strong, good in the air. No matter what you might understand him, it's stopping him is a problem. Because I tell you, because you know England, how we play we're physical. You saw us against women after ten men. We out muscle teams, we outfight teams towards the end. But I'm looking at that Norwegian team and they're huge. You know, I thought I w I thought I was must have been looking at a funny angle because I saw Harden with his teammates and there are three or four of them bigger than him and he's six foot five. And they're all, you know, playing good at they're playing Europe, they're playing England, playing for good teams. They have Audigard who's very skillful. So they can play but they're also very strong. So ⁓ it's not gonna be as easy as people are making.

speaker-1: ⁓ no, I don't think it's going to be easy, but I just think mentally, you know, we just know those players better than we would have known the Brazilian setup. I think that would help.

speaker-0: Yeah, but I think it's more I remember like when we used to play against the Republic of Ireland and it was like a Premier League match. I at first played in England and not only that, because the way the game was played, we're just so aggressive and fighting each other. Not a very technical game. And I think this game is gonna be like that because two teams are just so strong and physical. ⁓ the thing about it is that they're happy to be there. They're under no pressure. They've already said it, you know, we wow we're gonna lose Harland. We're you we're here we're gonna lose against Brazil. Now he's saying, you we're gonna lose against England. So all the pressure's on us. ⁓ that's not to say that we can't handle that pressure 'cause we have handled the pressure. But ⁓

speaker-1: ⁓ I just think that Kane has just, any doubt about Kane has just...

speaker-0: There's no doubt about Kane. This this England team is set up for Caden and Bellingham to score. That's it. You know, even if you've got the wide players with Gordon and Sakurais, they're going to work hard to create for them. So we're saying, why isn't everybody not scoring? This team is going to be like that. With Phil Foden and Cole Palmer, it would have been set up for them to perform and maybe different people to do different things. But with our three midfield players who are really just hard working midfield players, they're not going to create much. You know, Declan Rice, Anderson, you know, ⁓ they're just gonna work hard. Engines aren't they? Engines to work hard for Kane and Bellingham to score and everybody else to defend, which is fine. Because France are set up to have six defenders, the four defenders and two holy midfield players and a front four. And in many respects that's what we do.

speaker-1: But you're still fancying France? Look, do you know when I think they proved themselves? I think they proved themselves in the Paraguay game. Because that... All schools South American football. I think what was his name? What's his name in the midfield? Was it Galarez? The ref didn't know what to do. They were running past people punching them.

speaker-0: Well, you know. I mean ⁓ ⁓ no no put it tough as well. That was proper. Listen, they're horrible. Just even but even Mbap Mbappe when the ball's off the pitch and not in time, they're pushing him, they're kicking him. I remember playing it and and and Uruguay I used to be like that. Paraguay I always be like that. Brazil not so much. Colombia not so much. But particularly the guys. Paraguay and Uruguay. The guys. It was proper. ⁓ and but the thing about France is you can't intimidate them because physically they're strong as well. I mean if you look at them, they're quick, they're strong. If you wanna fight them, they'll fight you. If you want to play a technical game, they can. ⁓

speaker-1: It's cool.

speaker-0: So yeah. ⁓ but on a one off anything can happen, can't it? Yeah it can. Anything can happen. You saw good Morocco work. Yeah. I'm not talking about against France, but I'm talk about throughout the tournament and how good they are in the last so ⁓ but listen, let's let's let's let's get through the Norway game first before we start thinking about that.

speaker-1: Well you know, you have lived this, what's it like coming back to the domestic situation after you've been in the biggest tournament in the world, the World Cup?

speaker-0: Well it depends on how it goes. ⁓ in many respects it I take that back. It doesn't really, because it's completely separate. You're playing with you know, and with me and and this is where England is really strange because when I played, we never had this this this rivalry between clubs when I played for England. Me, Braun Robson, Ray Witters, Glenn Huddle, you know, Peter Bears, we played for rival clubs, but we still had that. I think it's really the Gerard Beckham Lampart's goals when the Premier League started, that this whole idea of the England team being separate. If you play for Liverpool, they don't get on with the Man United players in the Mario says we didn't get on with them, blah, blah, blah. That's that that was a period in time when I think when the Premier League started, you had big egos who were like, Well, Liverpool are better than Man United, and we are, you know, whereas I think that Garros Southgate changed that, brought everybody back together. So now this England team now hasn't got that rivalry between if you play for Liverpool, Man no Liverpool players there, but they haven't got that rivalry. So I think that, you know, the players getting back in is just a question of how fit they are, how how how hungry they are to come back in.

speaker-1: to like mentally, you know, because...

speaker-0: It's different because even when we played for England, what happens is you play for your club, you train every day, you play every week, then all of a sudden, six weeks later you play one game for England. So England is like that is why with Jurgen, it's interesting Jurgen going to coach Germany. Will he will he is that's does that suit him? Because Jurgen has to have the day to day involvement of impacting and influencing players every day in their lives as well as whereas an international manager you're getting other people's players, you're getting them for one week every two months. So Do you have that influence? And club football was the same. So getting back into your club is now coming home to your family. Playing with England is like going on a little holiday with your mates and then you come back to your family. But where

speaker-1: does it but where does it leave you fitness-wise you because there's a reason you have a summer break you have to recharge the batteries but then if you're out in the world cold particularly particularly the conditions you're playing

speaker-0: No, but listen, they're be gonna they're gonna be given another couple of weeks off. And you know, rehabilitation that they have now and the food that they eat and stuff in our day, you at McDonald's and that's just and do all kinds of stuff. So we didn't and you heard about players coming back two stone overweight and stuff like that and you had to get the weight off. Whereas that doesn't happen now. They're much fitter now the way they look after themselves. So that's really not gonna be I don't think that's gonna be an issue. ⁓ because they would have played one, two, three, four, five, six matches maybe. ⁓ and it's still together training and stuff. So they will they will have the rehabilitation, they'll rest. And they'll also manage their time preseason. I don't think they'll be doing the same preseason as everybody else who haven't been. And in preseason games, they will manage that. So they do manage it much better. So I don't think it's necessarily got well, it won't be Liverpool could be never in any place in the World Cup. So I don't think it'll impact n negatively on any of the play.

speaker-1: You just mentioned there, you said in the modern world and all that kind of stuff that everyone's super fit and that kind of stuff. So, go on back to your day then. When it was a closed season, ⁓ back in your day, come on, what was it like? Was it off the beach? Coming back to Stoneheav, yeah?

speaker-0: But if I broke my fingernail I wouldn't be out for six weeks. But you see, because well no no no because I'm I'm I I didn't really do that. I didn't really put a lot of weight on a plane, and I'm not a big drinker. So I love I'm not a drinker. I'm a I'm a I used to go out to nightclub and I like a dance and I love going out, blah, blah, blah. But I think that the big drinkers were the ones. They're the problems. Because of course, some of that you should and I don't drink. Even on holiday, I have a wife and kids and stuff, even in the oldest when I 23, 24. I was never out. So I never came back overweight necessarily. But we're talking about other players who would put on two stone.

speaker-1: I idea what you just.

speaker-0: Come back because that's what they did. They just drank every day. You know, so I never really suffered from that. I suffered from ⁓ and this wasn't pre season. Later on, I ate a lot of food. And later on in my career, because I had a lot of food, any weight I put on was because of ⁓ eating, not drinking. So preseason wasn't really an issue with me. But I think that generally speaking, what happens back then was a lot of people on lads' holidays. Go to Ibiza for two, three weeks. Did you do that? Did you No, and I never did that even my mates. I never did that. Yeah. You know, I had young kids f from I was like twenty one and I never went on lads holidays. So as a young player, even as a young player, I never went on lads' holidays ever. And I suppose that's when you go on a lad's holiday and the lads go out and you know. So I've never really come back overweight.

speaker-1: the press, mean, okay the tabloids were around then, but the pressure on them now, if they do go away.

speaker-0: Well there's no pressure on them because they don't live their lives that way. It wouldn't even enter their head. So football has completely changed. So it's not as if they have to suppress their natural instinct to go and do what they apart from Jack Grealish and Carl Walker. I mean apart from those two I love because they're like a bit of a throwback. No player now would even think. Look at Saka, please. Saka better have his passport and try and get a drink anywhere until he's about 30. And not that he'd want to use it anyway. So so players now are completely different. So they have nothing to worry about at that front because this is the way modern footballers are. So it's not as if they're suppressing their They're you know, they're inhibited in terms of I really want to do this but I'm not because I know that there's cameras or stuff like that. That doesn't happen.

speaker-1: What was it like though, when you've had that summer break? You said you kept your self-feed down until 4am, but you're still not at that level of fitness. Did you dread going back to training? No, no,

speaker-0: I love going I love going back to pre season. I was always very f I at Waffle we trained really hard, so I was always very fit and you know that this is what you have to do. This is what you have to do if you want to play. So ⁓ players look forward to getting back because you we you're like a school kid. So you you haven't got your mates anymore. Okay, you got your wife and your kids, but it's like can I get back to my mates type of thing, you know what I mean? So going back to pre season was fantastic. Not just for the training, but just for the camarader stuff. But as as you say, it's changed now 'cause you don't have that. Because before, you know, we come back for preseason. Not seen each other, so you go to training. But after training you'd go out to the pub and then at night you'd be going out with your f because you you're back now with with with the lads, aren't you? Yeah. So whereas now they don't live that way even during the season. You know, they don't they don't go out with each other during the week to the bars and the pubs and stuff like that anyway. They go home to their families, then they to train, they go into their families, they come to train, they're so they don't even so it's not as if now they'd be looking forward to getting back together 'cause they're all gonna be together. So ⁓ it w it's so different in my day to now.

speaker-1: go. On more domestic subject, I noticed the other day that you're number five now in the all-time Liverpool players list, got to be happy there.

speaker-0: Yeah. Well you know, ⁓ of course it's a tremendous honor from a ⁓ perspective of banter and who's number five, who's number four. I take I take everything like that with a pinch of soft. You know, because if I I I did what I did and if people then said I'm number ten instead of number five, ⁓ is that important? Laughing me out. I'm telling you, I'm telling you. I honestly because when you look at that list and you have to remember because I'm as much as I'm oldish old, you have to remember that there are people who play before look at you know, people would say Graham Sooness.

speaker-1: Stop, stop.

speaker-0: You Graham Soon as in under different circumstances could have been number two or three or even number one. Now you can go back to other players. You can go back to Billy Little. That's why you look at Billy Little. Billy Little is still in the list, and Billy Little played in the fifties. So how who's voting for him type of thing? You know what I mean? So I always take things like that with a pinch of salt. And I'll tell you why, because I did a thing as well ⁓ about player versus player. The problem when you have your player, so I did Pitford and Chiltern and I went for Pickford and they're going, well, Shilford, and then you have Beardsley and Bellingham for Beardsley. And it's like, but you it's just an opinion players you played and

speaker-1: play for Paraguay.

speaker-0: Because it's not position for position, but people take it so seriously. You know what I mean? So so people go you should have been number five. They're better, you should've been number five. You do what you do and if they like it, they like you, if not.

speaker-1: sticking with your club. Munoz coming.

speaker-0: Well once again, I as I said last year, the solution to the problems isn't signing players. We signed five players, four hundred million, look what happened. When we won the league and we signed ⁓ Endo and Chiesa, who never played and we won the league, we thought now we've signed all these players last season we were gonna run away with the league. That's not the problem. But and

speaker-1: if Liverpool were staying constant and buying an inexpensive striker who's injured?

speaker-0: Yeah, well, that's the thing. The thing about it is that a lot of clubs then feel a lot of fans then feel you're showing ambition by spending money. So if you don't spend any money to go, you're lacking ambition, you're not doing anything, and we want to leave without doing that. And now so I think clubs feel under pressure if it doesn't go well to spend money. Which really if it's not going to improve you, and I'm not saying it's not going to be good, I'm sure he is, 'cause a new manager coming in may want his own people, which I understand. But that doesn't alter because of course we really should have with the players we signed last year you'd have thought we would have won everything. So once again I say to the fans, is not you know It's it's not just about spending money, it's about getting the right battles, the right blend. And secondly and more importantly, is trusting the manager giving him time. Because if we now start this season and we lose two matches in the first month, are we then gonna say sat the manager? Because when David Morris went to Man United and because he didn't do what Fergie did, we got rid of him. Then Mourinho, sorry, Van Gaal, great manager, then Mourinho. And when when Arteta left sorry, when Arteta went to Arsenal, they finished eighth in their first year. They finished eighth in their second year. They're finished fifth in the third here. They should have sacked him, shouldn't they? When the call they've done now. Yeah.

speaker-1: Well, I've always said, ⁓ the only time they haven't really started pushing it with that top four five was when they gave Mois, what, nine years or something, to build a side.

speaker-0: Great if it happens straight away. But if it doesn't happen straight away, you still have to have that belief. Because I can tell you there's not a manager who's gone to a football club where the fans haven't gone, yes, this is gonna be great. That's what we're saying about Ariola now. Careful how you say his name. Yeah. Ariola? Ariola. I'll call him Pandoni. Because if it come and hits the ground running, if it goes well, fine, but if it doesn't, what are you gonna do? That's what Man United did after manager, after manager, after manager. So

speaker-1: I don't know, I'm not gonna say. But it's also what we went through, what, four or five seasons of doing that. I don't

speaker-0: Absolutely. And I'm telling you, they're good managers. 'Cause there's no bad manager going to a top club. But you've got to give them time, you have to have the belief and you have to have that trust in them, even if things aren't going well. Yeah. As Bill Shackley said, if you can't support us when we're not doing well, don't support us when we are. Yeah.

speaker-1: But you know, in everything's case, there's always this, I feel there's always this desperation because looking over the park saying, if a manager hasn't got us into the top four and nearly up on the same points as Liverpool by Christmas, that's it, you've got. And that's got to

speaker-0: Well you I'll tell you, I'll tell you what's hard for teams like Aston Villa, teams like Everton, because they're big clubs. The expectations there from the fans, which then means you're going to club like Bournemouth and Bryant where there's no expectation. So for the name of the game for it's always fourth or fifth from bottom from the start. There's no pressure on them, so you give them that time. They sign players for 20 million pounds, they sell them for a hundred million pounds. Yeah, because they're not a club, whereas Everton says we've got to sign players for more money and keep them. We're not selling our players. So therefore, but the problem they have. Is that unless you're gonna sign a player for 100 million pounds, Bournemouth will spend 50 million pounds on a player. Yeah? Everton buy a player for 15 million pounds, they're lacking ambition. We've got to spend 50. A 50 million pound player isn't that much worse than a 50 million pound player. Yes, a hundred million pound player, yeah. So you end up spending more money and not getting any better. And not getting better than a Brighton player, type of thing. And because the expectations are there for Everton to show more ambition and to sign these players, sign a player no one's ever heard of. Brian sign players nobody's ever heard of. It's fine. Everton signed a player nobody's ever heard of. It's gonna be why are we signing

speaker-1: ⁓ here we go again. Everton. I know what's going to happen. They're going to show us the promised land once more and then gashes on the rocks.

speaker-0: No, but listen. When Everton were fourth from bottom and you know, and he was like, We stayed up, we stayed up, it's great, it's great, it's great and then all of a sudden they are

speaker-1: You're kind of pushing towards the top off. I was like, 10th, 11th, something like that.

speaker-0: No, but where are they where do finish out here? Well they're not happy with that.

speaker-1: Last year it was almost boring, I wasn't counting numbers. Algorithms with the last three games.

speaker-0: No, but exactly. So basically So the thing about it is that when you are in mid table obscurity, that's when it kind of gets a bit like, ⁓ now what's this? They're so passionate when they're third or fourth from bottom and they're delighted and they're fighting and they stayed up and it's great. Or if you want to finish fourth or fifth, you're fighting for that. But when you're mid table, it's a bit like, Well, what are we doing? Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's why I'm saying be careful what you wish for. Because when you're talking about being relegated the week before, I bet you think, I wish we were just tenth. Just like mid table obscurity. You know. But because Everton is such a big club, as the village clubs like that. They're always looking to say, Can we finish there? rather than just being happy with where you are.

speaker-1: And of course, ⁓ Liverpool's first game, Newcastle. That might be an interesting reception for ESA, mightn't it?

speaker-0: Well, ⁓ I think that because of what's happened this year to him, in terms of not just his injury, in terms of that he hasn't played particularly well, blah blah blah, I don't necessarily feel that the animosity will be as particularly well. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I'm I'm not saying they're gonna feel sorry for him, but had he gone to Liverpool and won the league with Liverpool and won everything and done really well, I think it would have been worse then, you know. So Did you have an

speaker-1: Stop it. kind of, here he is back again, the traitor.

speaker-0: No, because I never I never left the club under those circumstances. Graham Taylor was at Watford coming to Liverpool. That's always gonna happen. ⁓ Liverpool came to the end of my career, so I went to to Newcastle. ⁓ then I went from Newcastle to Charlton 'cause it was you know, so I never I never left a club when I mean it could have happened had I gone to Real Madrid, which I could have gone to Real Madrid. ⁓ when I was at my prime at Liverpool, then coming back to play in Europe it might have been that way. But I never left the club under the Steam McMahon circumstances. Okay. So I've never I've never gone through that. And I am and I I even with the opposition fans for for a club that I've no history with or never played for, I've never really because I'm not an offensive type of a person, which means that if I'm playing against Man United or Arsenal and a score lots of goals against Arsenal, I didn't rub it in their faces. And you know, certain fans hate certain players because of the way they are. I've just never been that kind of a person for opposition fans to hate me.

speaker-1: I've got news for you as an Evertonian. I hated you.

speaker-0: Y no but no seriously even Everton. Even Everton. And Everton I never used to get you know look I mean I mentioned Steve McMahon of we know the circumstances he left or Neil Roddock or people who like go to the fans and they go ⁓ and give it all I never did that. We beat Everton, we beat Everton, I saw them out and it was fine. Whereas fans hurt certain players because of their character in terms of what they do on the pitch. You if you're a snarner on the pitch, yeah, yeah. You Reedy, other much as Reedy's a Liverpool fan. But you know, if you're ⁓ I mean I don't know how how Mac Steve McMahon actually did it because he's a brave boy. Yeah.

speaker-1: No one crosses that park, do they? Not without some animosity. Who else are we looking at this season? Newcastle, where are they now?

speaker-0: So once again, and I'm gonna mention it again, 'cause I mentioned it with Isaac, I must I might even have said it on on on the show. Where I said when they w beat Liverpool in the in the and the and people said to me, Will he stay? And I said, Now now would he say we won a trophy? I said, if he's gonna go and you lost and he wants to stay, he would stay. The fact that you've won doesn't mean he's gonna wanna stay. Newcastle fans had to go at me. ⁓ what do you think? Because you're saying that if you w now we're not a club, I'd No, no, no. Liverpool can't keep all the trend. This is modern football. Now there's talking about Bruno Gumarez. Gumares leading. You know, and he Newcastle hero and he now he wants to go no matter so if Newcastle and they can they can finish fourth or fifth Champions League, that's not gonna make people stay. That's not so regardless, what they have to and because they're a big club like Everton and Villa as well, I'm not saying have a bright nor born mentality, but understand that the players are gonna go. End of story. So if we can get another player to come in, we do well, he goes, that's what's gonna have to happen.

speaker-1: You've got to some loyalty though, you? mean, know, Bruno's kids were born in UCAT.

speaker-0: Well, I mentioned I mentioned when when Carlo left Everton. You know, and Everton fans couldn't believe it because, you know, they knew that he loved ⁓ KFC on County Road. Can't believe he's left us. Yeah. So Bruno's kids are born in Newcastle. Yeah. So what?

speaker-1: But when are they, know, their ambition this year, are they going to do the same old spend, spend, spend, spend? ⁓

speaker-0: Because to be honest with you what they've been waiting for is for Eddie Hell to fail. To get a big name manager in Newcastle's gonna become huge, Eddie doesn't fit the right profile of a huge club, whatever, and he's done well. And but now you can see that, you know, the players will come, the players will go. So I'm not saying they have to be a Bournemouth or a Brighton, but if Newcastle then say, Can we finish between, you know, sixth and tenth, ⁓ that's really what

speaker-1: He's in funny position though, isn't he, how? mean, my wife's a Geordie, I to be careful what I ever say about Newcastle. That's a very nice person. But he's in that really weird position. He brought the silverware that he'd been craving for all those years, and then it all gets a bit ropey. Well look, and suddenly it's all back to the wall.

speaker-0: What did we not say? Silverware's gonna keep the players. So we won the silverware. Is that gonna stay? No, he's not. You know, won the silverware, we're gonna love Eddie Howe. Win the silverware. Next season they finish fi eighteenth, fifteenth, whatever, don't win anything, they're gonna wanna get rid of him. And that's the nature of football. So therefore, this whole idea of loyalty doesn't exist. The loyalty is for the fans to the club. End of story. The club to the fans. Not from a playing perspective, not from a managerial perspective. Because if all of a sudden Eddie Howe or any other manager Eddie Howe's an example, then Man United come and say, Eddie, come and be our manager. He's gonna go. Yeah? So this whole idea of loyalty is only from the fans to the club.

speaker-1: But I do hope that Newcastle wins some of this season just because there was the idea of making the approach to St James's, change his name to Howay and I just thought that was just such a good idea. That's a serious idea. ⁓

speaker-0: It's ⁓ you know what and once again you talk about winning something. It's not about it's it's talking about the consistency you show over period of time. Ange won the the the whatever that cup was that Tottenham one, they sacked him a year later. So the whole idea and and anyhow won something. So it's so it depends on w the the thing you want to win is the is the league. Yeah. So if you win nothing, but you f if Newcastle win nothing but finishing third or second or third, not even winning the league, or win the FA Cup and finish tenth, you wanna finish second or third. So it's about winning football matches every week.

speaker-1: I you it's never too early, I'd take the FA Cup in 10th. Even over the Champions League. It's just been so long since we won something. Just in desperation. I don't know. Honestly. I don't know.

speaker-0: I don't know, because I'll tell and I've and I said it here. Because if you win the FA Cup and finish twelfth, for example, what then happens is you are happy when the FA Cup comes along, which is once every once every six weeks. Because you're losing all the games, but the six weeks in the third round of the cup you've won. The next three games you've lost or drawn and you're not playing well, then you win the quarterfinals. But think about how you feel when you're losing and you're not playing well. No, no, no, it's not. So the point I'm making is

speaker-1: which is a feeling I'd like to enjoy, is never too late. ⁓ you're used to that.

speaker-0: You win, you win, you win, you lose. But in the league you're doing really well, you're challenging. Yeah, then you get into the FA Cup semi-final. So up until March, April, those feelings of being happy and winning every week, then you lose the FA Cup semi-final. You finish third in the league, so you're desperate at the end. But think about the journey of how how happy you felt all the way till then. Rather than winning the cup at the end, knowing how desperate and depressed you were for the whole six months, but you managed to win at the end, you forget about the feeling of losing, though, don't you?

speaker-1: This is why I you Liverpool supporters, you're so patronising. Just because you intro- No no no no We just want a little bit of success.

speaker-0: It's not I say the same thing about Liverpool. For Liverpool, for me, when they finished their most successful season, when they lost the Champions League final and finished second on 96 points, whatever it was, that for me is the most successful season. Not when Klopp won the league, the Champions League, and we finished fifth in the league, because we weren't playing well in the league. We're losing, everybody's disappointed, and we have to win the Champions League at the end. The the most pleasing thing about that whole season was obviously then, you know, Everton finished fourth and they never went into Europe. So that made up for it. ⁓

speaker-1: That was a very, very low blow there.

speaker-0: No, but see not it's not for you though, it's my brother. I've told you about it, you ever told you. It's for him. Yes. I just ⁓ I mean I was just so happy for him. Must be a bit a a bit of red.

speaker-1: So you just touched upon them then and taught them what do they do now. I think if there was ever an instance that proves that a club, if you sell one player, Kane has just proved it in the World Cup, they went from Champions League pushing to one point off relegation because they sold Harry Kane. I know some of the other factors but that's got to be the main reason.

speaker-0: Yeah, but there you go about, you know, winning something. Antoine. You know, look what they won. They won a European Cup. Yeah. But they lo finished whenever they finish and they sacked him. So it's not just about winning trophies. Now, obviously, once again, you then have a team across the road, down the road. We're being successful. So the pressure's on Tottenham, Tottenham Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool. So it's it's it's magnified because of how well the other team are doing. Rather than thinking, forget what the other team are doing. We know who we are. And if we can finish eighth or ninth, we're happy. That's where Tottenham should be. Maybe not, you know, Everton may then feel I don't know about eighth or ninth or fifth or sixth, but it's a bit different. But Tottenham can feel that's where we should finish. ⁓ but it's ⁓ then ⁓ Harry Kane's gonna go. And and and if Everton has a superstar, and in fact, didn't I? Is he still there? Yeah, yeah. Well I'm Would you be surprised if he went? Shh. Would you be surprised? And of course you'd be disappointed, but do you feel why would he want to leave Everton? The KFC on County Road like Ancelotti.

speaker-1: It's the one reason to stay at heaven.

speaker-0: So players come and players go. That's the I'm making. Any superstars will come, these superstars will go. Because if a superstar at Liverpool is gonna go, a superstar in any other club's gonna go. And the fans have to understand that. So what the fans have to do is start to say we're not gonna undermine the club by putting pressure on the club to keep players happy, by overemphasizing how important they are in relation to their teammates, go better keep him. We love you. If you wanna go, thank you very much for your service. You've been great, go. That's what you have to do. That's what Newcastle did with Isaac as we try to keep him. And I use Liverpool as an example with the three boys who left when their contract ran down. Famine and Marne. When they ran their contracts down, then they left, which is fine. And you know, people would have had to go at Trent because he's local boy. But what you ask of them while they're at the club is you give a hundred percent effort, commitment, desire. Then if you want to go on a free transfer at the end, we don't hold that against you. But a lot of players who run their contracts down then don't perform on the pitch the the year before because they upset they don't try. So Football has changed in that respect.

speaker-1: I can never understand that actually, mean, I'm going to get stuck in the pool about this, but the whole Trent thing, he is the worst betrayer, the worst traitor in years.

speaker-0: I mean for local boys it's more difficult, isn't it? But you have to understand it's you know, he should just say, Listen, I've I've I've done well for I've done well for Liverpool, Liverpool's done well for me, and I want to try something new. Yeah. End of story. Now for people to then go, well you should ask for a transfer so we can get fifty million for you. Come on. I mean, would you advise your son to do that? You know, if you're gonna get make more money by going on a free transfer, what would he say to your son?

speaker-1: why I didn't get it. I ⁓ get disappointed but I just did not get the level of animosity towards him. You've won the Champions League, you've won the league and still that's not enough. I think it was because they all said his Spanish was too good.

speaker-0: Unfortunately, but they didn't know until after he'd left, because I tell you, if we're speaking Spanish three months before, they would have burned his house down. So so so the thing about it is that, you know, unfortunately, this is the age we live in. If Trent was gonna be, and you can't be honest, so don't blame Trent at all. So if Trent was gonna go, listen, I'm gonna go to Madrid at the end of the season, but it's best for me to go on free transfer, but I'm here, I'm gonna give a hundred percent till my contract runs down, because my contract is this, because I can tell you if I'm not playing with it or break my leg and the club drop me and I can't play anymore, you're not really gonna care about me. The fans won't, because somebody else will come along. And if I'm playing badly, so therefore it's a two way situation. They only love you when you're doing well. If you're not doing well, in fact we've seen it before with players. What's he doing here? Get rid of him, drop him, sell him, he shouldn't be here. That could have been Trent. So it's not personal. The love they give Trent is not personal, it's because he plays well. So therefore, if Trent decides to do something for himself and his family, I've not got an issue with it at all. And fans should understand that. Okay.

speaker-1: Who are you tipping for the league?

speaker-0: But it's gonna be listen to Arsenal will be the favourites. I think more than Man City because of the Pep factor. As much as the same team and a manager coming in now who knows because he was the assistant on the PEPS is a similar kind of thing. But Pep not being there I think will affect them. And Arsenal would still be strong. So you know it'll be between our s I think Arsenal, Man City, and ourselves for the top three, but I'll make Arsenal still the favourite. Because of course Andoni, as we're gonna call him, we have to wait and see how it starts.

speaker-1: I don't want to. Controversial moments in the Old World Cup. So you take it all the way back for the Argentina foul, but then you don't take it all the way back for the foul.

speaker-0: Look, we are human beings, yeah? So when you look at controversial moments, when you look at I'm gonna talk about in the Premier League, what is going to happen in the world is that there's certain people, certain teams, certain groups are getting an advantage. That is human nature. So I know that Liverpool would get more decisions at Anfield than Crystal Palace will. Yeah? So unless it's that blatant

speaker-1: That's what VAR means, isn't it? Virtually Always Read.

speaker-0: Yeah, well, interestingly, ⁓ Liverpool fans will complain a lot when it goes against them, as we all do. So so as much as I don't think anything in the World Cup has been blatant. You can be under pressure because it's Argentina, you can be under pressure because you can look what happens if it's American to put him under. So so him being sent off not so much him being sent off. It's ridiculous that Donald Trump got involved and they did that, but I'm talking about the decisions that's made on the field. I don't think they've been that controversial.

speaker-1: Yeah, but I'm talking specifically about the Argentina-Egypt game where they pulled it all the way back for a foul against the Argentinian player. But then for Argentina's goal, Salah is clearly fouled in the box. Yes.

speaker-0: No, that wasn't a foul. That wasn't a foul. You mean when he won the ball and then and then Salah tripped over him after he won the ball? No. Once again, this is what it's all about. This is about opinions. That was not a foul. He got he got he got the ball. Yeah, because he's left Liverpool. That's why he defended. Got the ball, and in trying to then put his foot down, Salah's actually so if Salah was still in control of the ball, yes. But after the boy had won the ball, he played the ball from him, and then there was a bit of a clash.

speaker-1: Stop it! I can't believe I'm defending. Yeah, that's fair enough. ⁓

speaker-0: So had that clash happened when Sala was still in control of the ball, but Salah would already the ball had already gone.

speaker-1: Yeah, then explain this to me because I'm a complete pedant on this kind of stuff. So there's been loads of times in the World Cup and domestically as well where they have a look at it and they go no, no contact. Attack has gone down, so no foul, no penalty. Well then the attacker should be booked for simulation. Isn't that the rule?

speaker-0: Well, there is there is there is certain times when you actually simulate to go down or there's certain times for example, you can go down because you are off balance. As much as he's not touched, he's not kicked you. You are off balance. Is that your phone again, yeah?

speaker-1: on the ice cream. Literally, it's the ice cream van. Do you want an ice cream? Yes.

speaker-0: No, I'm okay. Look at me, I can't put it down. So there are times when you're off balance and you go over, ⁓ which isn't simulation. And as much as he's not touched you, you make it via nudge. And secondly, there are times when you think he's actually going to kick you, so you go over to get out of the way so you don't get kicked, but he's now pulled his leg away, he's not touched, and he's gone over. So I think there are clearly and if you and V A R and people and referees and even football fans and football players know when it's simulation or when it's not simulation. Because sometimes you go over when you've not been kicked, but it's not simulation. So everything is and secondly, football is a contact sport. So just for the very fact that there is contact doesn't mean that it should be a penalty either. If the penalty I'm sure he's eight now. I'll do a quarter pound in cheese. But that's the thing about football, it's a hard game to referee. Hard game to referee.

speaker-1: We don't Yeah, you're the attacking player as a defender. I'd be livid if someone doesn't...

speaker-0: And it's even worse. It's even worse now because I mean it was worse ⁓ because football defenders don't tackle now. You think about half the defenders. Back then, unless you actually broke somebody's leg, you ain't even getting a yellow card. So when you talk about half the defenders now, it's easier for defenders now because you don't tackle, do you? I mean they may be diving and doing what they're doing, but defenders don't tackle. I mean the defenders now, it's all about how good you're on the ball. For me, it's about how you defend. And that's why look at Trent, that's why Trent's not there. Because he's gone, I want defenders. That is why if you look at Didier Deschamp, he said, I don't care how good you are on the ball, you've got enough four players to score the goals. You don't need to be a good player, you know, in possession. So the best teams are the ones who have defenders who defend and attackers who attack. Everybody attacks, everybody defends. Whereas these teams who say we want to have everybody comfortable on the ball, everybody can play, and you'll forget about defenders who maybe aren't as good on the ball, to then pick defenders who are better on the ball but they can't defend. France have gone against that. Lots of teams now said let's get back to having just good defenders. He would never get an England squad.

speaker-1: Take a deep. You know what, I've been thinking this all night, because he did play for Everton. He's good going forward, but he's not all that. And I can't believe that he hasn't been attacked more. He's really...

speaker-0: Well first of all first of all you need to get you need to get the ball to attack, whereas you know if you're gonna keep possession you're not gonna get at defenders. And secondly, if you look at how hard the French front four work when they've lost the ball to get back into a defensive position, that you're never gonna get isolated. The wide players never get isolated. You look at Barker or Douai and the wide players getting back to to the ones who get isolated are the two centre backs, because the fullbacks go, and those two centre backs, Saliba and Upog Makano, are very good defensively anyway. So the French fullbacks aren't gonna get isolated.

speaker-1: you are going to be welcome in

speaker-0: I can tell you. Said it at the start, and honestly, I just can't see a more balanced team in terms of I mean you saw the game. You want to fight them? They can fight. You want to play a technical game, you want to sit back and defend tight areas around the box. That's probably where we are going to fall down without having Cole and and you know players like that who are in tight areas. Good strong runners. If teams defend deep against us as Garner did in the f in the first half in Panama, we can't really play through them if we haven't got those tight players. But France can. And if you need and if you play a game against France where you stretch the game or you say we're gonna play a high line with the pace they have up front with, you know, ⁓ Mbappe, yeah, it's just like you know. I should be there I should be their agent. I should be their agent, shouldn't I? If I was managing England, they're going to beat France, I'll probably bring over Cole Palmer and Phil Foden. Listen, how you get them to beat France is you try and keep it tight in the back and you can win a game because it's a game of football on a one-off. You know, you look at us when we beat, you're gonna club beat AC Milan. How did he do that? You're 3-0 down and you manage to beat them as much as you should have lost whatever. So it's not as if you're gonna outplay them. It's a one-off. You play them ten times, they will beat you eight times, but it's a one-off, so anything can happen. We're not gonna outplay France. So to then say we're gonna outplay France, and of course what can happen in a one-off as well is they can play France. Pickford has a worldly, they hit the poll ten times, we score lucky goal, beat them one nil. And therefore we deserve to beat them. So when you say, but if you say how do we outplay France, we're not gonna be able to.

speaker-1: There must be a system, know, they'll play it. There are such engines up the middle of England.

speaker-0: So if you look at player for player what they have, player for player what we have, ⁓ what those players can do on and off the ball, what we can do on and off the ball. So you're talking about Kane and Bellingham, yeah? But you look at the French front four, for example, and then they can bring on some other players, Turkey, who's not even getting a game, and look how good he is, and then you've got Barclaw, who's not getting a game, do we? And defensively they just have strong defenders and excellent attackers. We have got strong players and Kane and Bellingham, but we don't have anything else if you want to talk about. Flair, invention, skill, but you don't need that to get so far. And even to win, you don't need that because you can play against France, backs to the wall, Bellingham, Elliott, Anderson, Declan Rice, great performance in front of the back four, defending. Harry Kane can scroll goal from a corner or whatever, and we can win one-nil. But if you expect to then have a team that's gonna play better than France, I'll play France or Spain, it isn't

speaker-1: Thanks for

speaker-0: We can beat them. But we can beat them. Not just knockout football to the World Cup. That is the joy of of cup football. So that's why we when we talk about having a good cup winning the FA Cup, we can win a cup because that can happen. You cannot win the league by doing that. Yeah? Yeah. So

speaker-1: Here's one for you, Barnsie. Unbeknownst to you, I have actually played against the USA in an international.

speaker-0: ⁓ What sport?

speaker-1: No, in football. I you, I promise you. It also ruined any chance I had of playing for England. It was disaster of an idea. This is in about 1994. I was doing a series called...

speaker-0: How long ago was this? ⁓ The World Cup was in America then as well.

speaker-1: Well, so it turned out that Puerto Rico, their team was made up entirely of Americans and so there was a friendly USA against Puerto Rico and that was the story we were doing. More or less everyone was from New York, okay? So we were just there and I'm just sitting in the changing rooms just chatting to the lads and chatting to the manager and the manager of Puerto Rico said, did you fancy a game? I went, yeah. He said, what position? I said... left wing, and he goes, go on then, go on, on you go. So next thing, I'm out playing football against the USA for Puerto Rico. Yeah, CCC. ⁓ I actually crossed for the equalising goal to Old Royal.

speaker-0: Too old draw. Yeah. Yeah, I got a contract out of that. So what about when you have games you you have these these these celebrity games here? Never played any of these celebrity games here.

speaker-1: That literally is my international career. in an international... Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what I noticed about the celebrity games? Because you have all the mix of the old pros and all that kind of stuff, And there was a time, like particularly when we had the Brookside team and we kind of merged with the Corrie team as well for a while. And we were all right. We were quite a good team, you know, because everyone thought we just turned up and just be a bunch of actors. no, we got stuck. Honestly, yeah, yeah, we did. And so...

speaker-0: Yeah we we get to

speaker-1: And so we turn up, and particularly against the ex-pros, you'd be playing the ex-pros, and we'd go one little up and they'd have a little laugh about it. And then we'd go two little up and then they would kick us two bits. Because that meant, because the mentality, the profession.

speaker-0: That's from Brookside, but he was a very tough can't remember his name.

speaker-1: professional, they have this professional mentality that just suddenly kicked in and went, we are not beat by these.

speaker-0: ⁓ We played against that before, and of course I was like in my fifties and us playing type of thing, so you can't play against these young kids. But anyway, what happens is that you are doing it for a bit of a laugh. Yeah. But they aren't. Yeah. So as much as you would like them to still have a bit of a laugh, they don't. So after they then get really serious, you then gotta change. Yeah. But you have to be f young enough and fit enough to be able to do that. And I have not been like that for 15 years, so I just don't get involved anymore.

speaker-1: was the Irish Sunday off at Weston who was there, Harper, or Alan Harper. was again, we fluked another goal, fluked another goal and he just turned around to his place said, we are not letting these bastards beat us, come on!

speaker-0: Well Everton Ever Everton Everton players have said that for a lot for many, many games.

speaker-1: Yeah, it doesn't normally work that. But there you go. But I used to love, I used to absolutely love playing. was never. Well, I played till I was 60. last year was my last game. I played for Liverpool University Old Boys for years. I always thought if I could...

speaker-0: When was the last time you played? And what is the youngest people are playing against? That's the problem.

speaker-1: It's a vet team, so the youngest you're going to be playing against is like 30, 35.

speaker-0: That's the problem when we played as ⁓ well.

speaker-1: I certainly wasn't flying up and down, you know what mean? was just standing there saying don't get...

speaker-0: So even if a thirty two year old cannot play, and you can, you can't play against them. Yeah. No. You you can't run around anyway. So you've given up gracefully. But that's why you're on your bike all the time, though.

speaker-1: That was the point, the point was you'll know it's everyone's bane except for the small players like Messi, the knees. As soon as I started feeling my knees, you have to make a decision then.

speaker-0: Thinking with me's the belly, not the knees. And it's also the age. Forget about your knees. When you're old, you can't do that anymore. You can't run around. Yeah. As as Portugal and found out with Cristiano Ronaldo.

speaker-1: Yes, so the boots are firmly hung up. Yes, but it got to 60, that was alright, it wasn't a bad creep.

speaker-0: Like that.

speaker-1: Right, questions, alright? These are coming from the socials and emails, etc. First question, John. Everyone wants to know, where is Millwall?

speaker-0: Well, I've explained this to people and ⁓ as much as people You call people would say it's in South London and I said it's in East London, we can say South East London. But why say London? Because if you look at the Thames, the Thames is not a straight line. If it's strengthened as a straight line, North London, South London, East London, West London. Yeah? Because the Thames goes like that. As much as Millwall may be south of the river, it is still

speaker-1: East.

speaker-0: as the crow flies. So for me, it's East London. But if people want to say South East London, but you know, they want to be pedantic about it. But actually

speaker-1: It turns out had some historians back in Europe because Millwall did actually start as an East London club.

speaker-0: ⁓ well, you as East London will tell you everything started. The world started in East London. And also Well Arsenal were in Woolwich. That's Woolwich Arsenal the who were also in South East London if you can.

speaker-1: And I also defer to your idea of how the Thames runs because you just recently had a very good view of it, didn't you?

speaker-0: had a very scary view. Which, you know. I did this thing for ⁓ the the London Eye where they said, go, go, go, go and sing the England song on the top of the London Eye. Not the top of the London Eye, outside the London Eye. So you got went all the way around to the top and the top one they had a little and they and they sent me. So they take the they don't take the roof off, but there's obviously something a a hatch that you can open to actually fit through to then get on it. I suppose to clean it or to but I'm gonna do a wrap on top of it. And they sent me the dimensions of it. to get through to begin with. First of they said they're gonna be in cage. The cage only holds fourteen stone. How heavy are you? I fifteen, but I'm really sixteen, so was lying, but anyway. And they sent me the dimension of these cages. And the dimension of the cage was We've got to send an inches. It was twenty, two foot is t about twenty-eight inches square. So I got my tape measure out and I went twenty-eight inches. So I went, that's two foot four inches. And I went two foot four inches, two foot four inches, foot four inches, put it on the ground, stood in the middle, and got my kids to like lift it up over me to see if I can fit in it. And I went, What if I put my shoulders like that? I might be able to fit through. So ⁓ anyway, I did it. Five o'clock in the morning. Nuts. Five o'clock in the morning. And it looked like AI. If you ever see it, it looked like AI, and people are going, ⁓ that was.

speaker-1: You know.

speaker-0: I said, no, five o'clock I was out there and it wasn't a cage, 'cause the cage A I wouldn't want to be anyway. But if the cage is o over you like that, you think, Okay, it's a cage, so you're gonna be safe. But it's not a cage, it's just a little thing that goes to about your waist and you kinda hold on to it. But I was ⁓ I had a harness on and everything.

speaker-1: Anyway, back to the questions. Okay, here's one for you. ⁓

speaker-0: I stop and give people lifts all the time. Honestly, if I'm driving somewhere and someone wants a lift about to give us a lift, I give ⁓ a lift. So, ⁓ how long ago was this and where was this? ⁓ right, yeah. ⁓ very possibly because it was it when the ⁓ when ⁓ when it the Hillsborough funerals. I'm not sure. someone's uncle. Whose uncle? I don't know. It was someone's uncle it's like someone's uncle. Well, I mean everybody's someone's uncle, aren't I it couldn't be

speaker-1: That's all we got. You

speaker-0: Well if you're male and you've got a sister or brother who's got kids, then you're their uncle, aren't you? So I I I can't remember to do that, but I I d listen, in the old days we used to get lifts and give lifts and do all kinds of stuff all over. So I can't specifically remember that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

speaker-1: What happened to Tramia?

speaker-0: Got a sack. Well, the thing about it is that obviously what happened at Tranmere was that when you have ⁓ Tranmere finished outside the playoffs the year I came, just outside the playoffs, and then a lot of the th four three of the best players left. And of course, after that it was always going to be difficult because they stopped, we didn't have any money to spend, we couldn't buy any players, and if you look at what happened to Tranmere, I lasted till about the November, probably eleven games, we were fourth from bottom. We you we won three lost state, but of course football was different back then whereby people give you no time at all. And I don't know why people expected things to work out even better for Chan Mirror because since then they've still been in the bottom of the division, not done anything. So it was always gonna be difficult. I enjoyed the football, but I don't enjoy the politics of football. You know, and fans have got young people telling what you should be doing, how it should be done. And it's even worse now, at the highest level, at any level. You know, so it was it was difficult. But ⁓ you know, this is just this is just part of football, isn't

speaker-1: Did enjoy it though? ⁓ Who do you want to win if England play Jamaica?

speaker-0: In a friendly or in a World Cup? World Cup final. ⁓ Jamaica have never won the World Cup, have they? Let's just get there. Okay. Let's just get there. In a friendly. A diplomatic draw. How is that?

speaker-1: cover. ⁓ no, no, no, no, not getting off the hook like that.

speaker-0: Well it depends. If it's if it's in Jamaica, I'd want Jamaica to win. If it's in England, I'd want England to win.

speaker-1: Okay, yes, sit on the fence, why don't you? Okay, yeah, Thoughts on hydration breaks.

speaker-0: You don't need hydration breaks. And I'll tell you why. Because before hydration breaks, there's enough break in play for a player to get because it always happened. The ball went out for there's a free kick, somebody's down, you got a minute before you know you're gonna kick off again. You go to the side, they throw something on, you drink the thing. It's like, you know, why do you need because you know in hydration breaks, there could be players in hydration breaks who don't want to drink. You drink when you want to, and there's enough breaks in football for a player who wants a drink, but there's enough breaks to then go to the side and can get a one of those squeezed bottles and you drink To have a hydration break when, you know, you may feel but I don't really want to drink now, but you have to call it a hydration break. And then you want to drink and you can't because there's no hydration break. And in fact, it's interesting because you know hydration breaks, they break for the high So are you able to drink when it's not the hydration break? Because I'm sure when the ball's gone into the crowd and you got forty seconds, you're gonna run to the side and get a drink. Or are they saying you can't do that anymore? I don't see what the problem with that is. I don't think you need them.

speaker-1: I really enjoyed the fact that everyone, all the fans from everywhere have booed them because we know all it is is the slow, well we know it's a commercialised game anyway, but it's just further commercialisation. I remember speaking to some guys from an American network years ago and they said, the problem with football, in America is we can't get enough adverts in. and that is a huge problem and that's why it's very difficult to commercialise this sport and push it in America.

speaker-0: In America, but we don't really care because the kind of the money they're making everywhere else. It's not about America. So the thing about is that there are weight of commercialising it without changing it. Yeah. Which is what's happening in England, France, everywhere else. Yeah. It's just America has to have these things. So and it's that's not why they can't commercialise it. That's because, you know, because it's not the number one sport, regardless of what happens. They're people are gonna watch American football, baseball, and basketball, no matter what you do with football. Have hydration breaks, have what it is it gonna take over from baseball or American football or basketball? No, it's not. We just need to so so I understand from that point of view, but it's been completely commercialised in our country. Yeah. But we don't have things like that. We don't need to have

speaker-1: Just leave it as is. it. Just leave it.

speaker-0: And have a drink. You can have a drink when you want. Because the thing about it is that also, you know, you get an exciting moment and you know it's end to end and something then I go, ⁓ let's stop now. It's like, hang on a second, it's just getting good. You know what I mean? And because you're set a corner and you have another corner of throwing and it goes pretty hydration break for five minutes.

speaker-1: hydration break when they were having a hydration break in the lashing down rain. Really? Is this for real? Thanks for joining us for another episode of Defend and Attack. Don't forget to like, follow, subscribe. See you on the next one.