speaker-0: Simon, how you doing lad? It's good to see ya. You okay? Nice to see you, Nick. Any red on you? No.

speaker-1: No, no, all black and yeah.

speaker-0: But what about ⁓ look at all these? They ⁓ come on, where's the there be an emitting shirt somewhere?

speaker-1: know, as if they'd let that in. Come on, John. I'm only here to talk people know. That's the one I always remember you're in.

speaker-0: What's uncertain. But come what would you hear, you know? I do people know? Candy. Yeah. I know. I think that's the first one. That's no, I think I had a year of Crown Paints, I think. Or Crown Paint before, yeah, and then Candy took over. And in fact, interestingly, when they when Candy took over, I remember at least our football has changed. I remember we got so excited because we to go to the ⁓ candy showroom and pick up a washing machine for free. So we used to get washing machines for free.

speaker-1: Yes, slightly different now in all days.

speaker-0: Yeah. They give them money now instead. Wow.

speaker-1: But, you know, look at that. There's the Maxx Crazy 6.

speaker-0: Yeah, I mean I'm with everyone remembers England ninety, especially the World Cup coming and never gotta do that song again. Every whole I think that was the that was in ⁓ England the ninety one. Okay. Yeah, that was the in the the sixth one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good old days. Old days. I can't believe there's no blue and white everton anywhere. I thought you might have insisted.

speaker-1: Don't you wa- No no no, I'm happy, I'm happy, this is the John Barnes Defending Attack Rub

speaker-0: My brother my brother in laws are never toldin I know you're never toldin well and I always have to give them a mention.

speaker-1: Good lad. Anyway, thanks for that, and enough of this. This is about you. Let's get into this. Roll titles!

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: Welcome to the Defend and Attack John Bonds podcast. I am thrilled to be with this legend-ish. Well, I'm glad there's a bit of distance between.

speaker-0: Every time I go somewhere else, there's a there's a doppelganger in the house. And there's a little young Kevin Keegan look about you there, Simon. I've never really noticed it before. No, thank you very much. A little bit of a young Kevin Keegan look about you. No no no no no, it's a compliment. Take it from me.

speaker-1: I don't know if that's an insult or a... But listen, you know, it was always a joy to watch you play, particularly in the England shirt. Not so much in the red shirt. You ruined many days for

speaker-0: Well, Watford as well. And you remember you will remember FA Cup final. Everton versus Watford. You would have been happy then, wouldn't you? I was happy. Because two nil.

speaker-1: That's right, yeah. Yes I did indeed, I was there, all singing to Elton John, I guess that's why they call us the Blues. Yeah it was good laughing. Yes, that must be the only time that playing a game she left me with a happy feeling, can't be many others.

speaker-0: Well no, because if you remember, ⁓ in the eighties, for the people who don't remember that the two best teams of the country were Everton and Liverpool. In fact, when I came to Liverpool, I will say part of the reason was because Everton had won the league the year before, hadn't they? You know, obviously ⁓ eighty eighty six Liverpool did the double. I don't remind you of that. But then eighty seven when I came to Liverpool, Everton had won the league that year. And when I came it was like Liverpool, Everton, you know, so so as much as if you're not old enough to remember, Everton were ⁓ I mean they still are a top team, but I'm talking about one of the top two teams in the country back then.

speaker-1: There was a year, wasn't there, in the 80s when every single trophy was in Liverpool. Crazy.

speaker-0: Absolutely. Absolutely. And of course how I came, I mean, you know, and I I love I still live on in Murrayside now and and the people are what makes it for me. You know, because even when I played for Watford and when I played for Watford, Graham Taylor would be like, you know, okay, when are you gonna move on? Where you gonna go? And he said, Liverpool is the place for you even as a city, because they are humble. They there's no elitism in Liverpool as you know, even at the football club and Everton's the same. So I and I got on so well all the other time players. Read you know them, Reedy and you know you know Kevin Radcliffe. So, you know, it was a it was a great time for me back then.

speaker-1: Yeah, I seem to remember, obviously these days football is having a nutrition list, they have their own personal doctors and that kind of stuff. I seem to remember many nights when most of the Liverpool and Everton team were in the continental or atmosphere of the night.

speaker-0: By the way. Yeah, atmosphere. But it was just us. It was everyone. You this is the way football was. Football was like that back in the ⁓ in the I mean, forever. You can go back to the sixties with George Best and you know, I'm not sure about the forties and fifties, but football, it was a there's a big drinking culture. They were part of a community and these are working class people who came from the community, so therefore why should it be any different? Yeah. You know, so you look at people, you know, like Peter Reed and people who just came from the communities and that's what that what used to happen until Arsen Wenger came and messed it up for everyone, then he stopped all that drinking.

speaker-1: So I your professionals, do we have to be?

speaker-0: But it's really strange, 'cause when I ⁓ Watford was different 'cause Watford with Graham Taylor was really strict. So I was brought up from seventeen till twenty three when I came to Liverpool in a very strict way. You train hard, you don't go out, you don't drink, you don't eat McDonald's, you eat properly. Then I came to Liverpool and I think I was pissed for the first two weeks. But I was twenty three so I was able to handle that. So, you know, but so as much as all of football was like that then, I was fortunate that I had my first six years at a club like Watford, 'cause I wouldn't have hated to have come to Liverpool at seventeen. 'Cause what you do then, you do what you senior professionals do. You're out. The county, you're just out drinking all the time.

speaker-1: It didn't do you any harm. And I know that for a fact. Let's have look at John's Roll of Honours. So there they are, John.

speaker-0: And I'm glad they've done a bit of research actually, because I do every time I'm going to do talks and stuff like that, they go, right, he's played six hundred and odd games, he's got a hundred and twenty goals because what they haven't taken into consideration is the FA Cup and other goals as well. So the 198, I wish it could have got to 200, but I use my eleven England goals to get it to two hundred. I want to use my goals in training as well to maybe get it to four hundred. Can you think about John Aldridge? He scored over four hundred goals. Yeah. But ⁓ I like the look of that. That's much better.

speaker-1: There go. That's not bad, is it? There you go. We've got it right.

speaker-0: I mean I don't think the Charlton fans would be too happy saying I played for them 'cause I was on the pitch for about four or five times and you know, I think that the advertising trading standards will probably fronsue me for that one.

speaker-1: No, I don't believe they think that. Anyway, that's yours, right? Let's have a look at mine. Yeah.

speaker-0: Sim Simon, they're actually doing you a disservice. They're doing you a disservice 'cause they've missed out. I know for a fact that you've got a BAFTA. I have got a BAFTA. And they haven't put it So the Brooks out appearances, hundred and fifty lots, Corey appearances, all of the Oscars and England caps. Never mind all that.

speaker-1: I've also missed out my league winning medal as well. I've won the league. We won the former's league in South Liverpool with Cascades FC.

speaker-0: Farmers leave. You're a farmer. But the big ⁓ and it got it the wrong way round. Watch it a bit at the top of that is the bitter blue. That should be at the top.

speaker-1: Fuck! It should be. It should be at the top. For good reason.

speaker-0: But that's not true. That's not true actually, because you know, my brother in laws are proper bitter blue. I don't think you are, 'cause you're quite a nice one You remember the good old days when Everton and Liverpool used to mix together, sit together, whereas now you can't do that anymore, can you?

speaker-1: You It is a pity though, isn't it? There is cat. I don't know why that happened. I think we're just in more reality.

speaker-0: I don't know when it happened because even when I first came to Liverpool, nineteen eighty seven, you'd see blue in the cup. You know, and so then all of a sudden it just it just changed.

speaker-1: Yeah, just slowly became far more antagonist.

speaker-0: But you know why? Because what happened was when I came in eighty seven, don't forget, Liverpool and Everton. Everton first, Liverpool second, Liverpool first, Everton second. So so th the the the the rivalry in terms of one team doing much better than the other wasn't there. I think is when Everton stopped doing as well. That's when it really became because before Everton had no reason to be bitter because you had won the league the year before and you win in the cup and the cup with his cup, so yeah, long may it continue. Only joking. Only joking.

speaker-1: So listen, if in May, before we start talking about football, there is one subject I wouldn't mind approaching with you, and that is the issue that you've just been through. It is a very personal thing, very upfront about it, and that's prostate cancer.

speaker-0: Yeah. Well, I haven't just been through it. It's been been a while, but I've I've only just talked about it now. And in fact, in the way it actually happened, interestingly, it's a bit like ⁓ y you know with Kenny's Kenny's thing and Kenny was inadvertently 'cause you know when they get to Kenny's a bit older than me, but we're old and you're not sure about social media and what you're doing, you're pressing the wrong buttons and things come up, and that's what Kenny did. He actually did it himself. Now how it came out with me, because I had this four years ago. But what had happened was my dad died of prostate cancer. My mom was ill, so I didn't want it to be made public because of my mother, you know, I'm her only son and her husband died of prostate cancer. So and my mum passed away last year. So ⁓ I th so because I didn't want to say anything about it four years ago and it happened. And then what happened was I was during this interview, this interview process day, ⁓ a media day, we're doing lots of different stuff for the World Cup and going through and these I was on this program, these women and I think that they must have been talking about Kevin and Kenny about their cancer problem. Okay. But when they said we know about this cancer issue, because that had just come out. And I don't know, I did so many interviews, I thought, she must be talking about me. So I just went, Yeah, well, you know, I had prostate cancer and it's been a while, but everything's okay now, blah, blah, blah. They never back to denying it. They went on. And it's only after I thought, I didn't even think, why are they asking me about my pro what they really weren't? So I think I volunteered the information, but I'm quite happy for it to come out now. The only reason I didn't say it before was because of my mother. She had ill health, she was old, and her husband had died of prostate cancer. So I'm her only son. I didn't want to worry, so but now it's out in the open. happy. But it's it's i it's clear, it's been a while so I'm I'm all

speaker-1: But know, it is a personal issue. Even though he came out accidentally. The fact that someone of your profile is happy to talk about it, because men are not supposed to about this.

speaker-0: Absolutely. And you know, we've we've had this for years because as much as a personal issue, it's a personal issue for women as well with with breast cancer. But they talk about it, it's not a big deal. Yeah. There's no stigma attached to it. Yeah. They're not less than a woman if they have breast cancer. But you know it's macho men, what we're like. And that is why, you know, testosterone. That's why I said women should rule the world, because us men really want to be macho men. And you suppose, you know, if you have prostate problems, then you know, low testosterone because your prostate issues, as much as you're getting old anyway, and it's it's natural, you kind of like stand.

speaker-1: feel less.

speaker-0: You know what I mean? So ⁓ it is a real male thing and it's an issue with men not coming forward and and you know, because women just get screened for breast cancer all the time, but men have to and especially

speaker-1: almost persuaded to do it. We finish off with this quite serious subject by saying our best wishes go to Kenny and K. And of course for any more information just go to prostratecanceruk.org. Alright, let's get on to some football shall

speaker-0: ⁓ absolutely. Absolutely. Are we? Absolutely.

speaker-1: Let's start off with the old Champions League Arsenal, did you expect them to win?

speaker-0: No. I expected Paris Saint Germain to win. Arsenal could have won, because they're a good team and they're very good defensively. And I tell you why I like Paris Saint-Germain, because Paris Saint-Germain for epitomizes what football should be. When Paris Saint Germain had a messy name around Mbappe, they didn't win. And then all of a sudden, so the solution isn't just to get these great individual players. So it's about empowering the manager, and we can see he was home. I'm sure we're going to talk about that what's happening to our manager at Liverpool. It's about the manager being the most important one. Louis Enrique is the reason why. They've got good players, don't get me wrong. But if you look at Any team who does well, and you can talk about Liverpool with Klopp, Arteta at Arsenal and and and Guardiola, it's about empowering the managers. And this should be a listen to any football club and the fans, not the clubs, the fans. If you get a manager, support him more than the players. The players come, the players go. The manager's the most important one. ⁓ I think. So Paris Central Man, that's why I them, McCalluric property.

speaker-1: I mean while you're talking about giving managers a chance, Moise is back at Everton. And the last time we were anywhere near getting close to cracking into the top five, top four, was when they gave him time.

speaker-0: Man United have done that. Who knows what could have happened when he first went? Then then who went after Man after him? Van Gaal, great manager, Mourinho. Now Arteta finished eighth in his first year at Arsenal, eighth in his second year, fifth in his third year, and look what he's doing now. You have to stick with the manager, give him time, then the players will then take responsibility. Because if you know as a player that well, the manager and interestingly, and and and I saw when Arnie Slot left, I saw an interview that ⁓ that Isaac gave when he's with Sweden. And this for typifies what football is. I work for the club, I'm an ambassador for the club. I love Isaac, but this is modern football. It's not Isaac, it's modern football. He said, he said, I'm I'm here now with Sweden, so I'm detached from what's going on at Liverpool. He said, However, you know, ⁓ obviously if if if the team doesn't do well, the manager's the first one to go. That's something new. That's something new. In the old days the manager wasn't the first one to go, the players were. But this is how football is symptomatic of what football is, which is wrong.

speaker-1: Okay, say it how it is. So getting back to the Champions League final, what was it? What did Arsenal get wrong?

speaker-0: Listen, they didn't get anything wrong because, you know, when people talk about football, and this is where Arsenal got it right, because when Man City and Liverpool were going head to head in the last four or five years of winning it, everyone said, Well, let's try and play like Man City. Let's play that kind of football because we're going to play good football, you're gonna lose. Arsenal have now said, Listen, we're not gonna be like Man City. We have to do what we do. We're strong, we're physical, and if you're playing against a team who are technically better than us, why are we then gonna wanna say let's so they play their own brand of winning football? Now it worked in the league, because of course in the league you've got 38 games, whatever it is, and they've been the best team in a one-off situation. And it could have worked. Because of course, if they didn't get that penalty in the last whatever it was, they could have won one-nil. So they didn't get anything wrong. It's just that, you know, because you've seen Paris and German completely destroy teams. They didn't destroy Arsenal. No. It's just one of those things. You know, so they never got it wrong because they've had a fantastic season. Champions League final, winning the league. Come on, you can't compete.

speaker-1: No, can't. I can only dream. Where does you know?

speaker-0: I bet I've gotta be careful what I say 'cause all the Amazonians are like y you say it, I won't. So

speaker-1: finishing off on Arsenal's success. Do reckon they'll be back next year? Will they be able to that push forward?

speaker-0: Absolutely in the lengths. Well, not keeping up. I mean, they're they are where they are. And in if you look at what they've done in the last two years, they have been there or thereabouts. Now, football and and and success is really interesting because when he spoke about Liverpool for me, their most Jurgen Cup won the league. I think Liverpool's best season was when they finished second on 99 points or whatever it was, got to the Champions League final. Because if you win the league on 92 points, finishing second and 99 points, yes, you finish second, but that's a better season. Because you've won more games. The fact that Man City won more is so So the whole idea of what success is is is is really is is is is very important, which means that you maximize your potential to win as many games as you can in the league. And there's no reason for Arsenal not to do that. Because you see how consistent they are. And it's not to say if they don't win the league next year they've failed or if they don't win the Champions League, you maintain that consistency every single week because you know the best thing about football is the feeling you get every week in winning matches. When people talk about winning a trophy being the most important thing, did Ange Poster Cogglu win the a trophy? And they sacked him a few because they finished seventeenth. It's not about winning trophies, about the feeling you get every week of being consistent. That's what the fans like.

speaker-1: Yeah, it's going along knowing with hope.

speaker-0: Basically. Yeah, but not only with Hole, because the thing about it is if you just think about Liverpool, when they finished second in the league, ninety-nine points, whatever it was, and got to the Champions League final, they were so disappointed in the last game of the season, and then in the Champions League final. You think about the journey every single week of being happy, rather than when we won the Champions League with Jurgen, fans were miserable every week or weren't playing well, but then they were happy when we got it. So that that happiness that you get every week culminating with losing in the last game, I would rather have that than being miserable every week. And because it's a cup match you can win and you can win the league. As I said, and push the cock glue. Yeah. ⁓ we wanna win a trophy. What did they do after they won the trophy? They sacked

speaker-1: I mean I get that happy feeling when Evan gets a 40 points every season.

speaker-0: Not any ⁓ I I know that feeling that you used to have because of course that's safety, but now Everton can then think about going up. Well.

speaker-1: hopefully if they stick with the money.

speaker-0: ⁓ they will. They will. They will. It's just a question that when David gets older, what's gonna happen? And whoever manager comes in, they have to support it.

speaker-1: Something I can never even imagine that is part of the game is that walking up at the end of extra time and taking that penalty. You've done it. That's how I feel it.

speaker-0: Penalty shootouts. Yeah, what once again, every individual's different. And it's really interesting because when you talk about a player, and people always talk about players with character. You know, you look at a player playing with character. I'll tell you and and whatever character means. The players who I think have characters are players who's willing to take a penalty in a penalty shootout. Creates you so many players in the 90 minutes. Come on, fighting a little bit. When a penalty shootout comes, no one wants to take it. So interestingly, the characters that you think are strong characters and they're leaders. Would not want to take a penalty. So it really depends on the individual and you can't really train for it. You can trust your technique and and and your practice, but you cannot you cannot train or recreate. And we did it in the World Cup. We used to have, you know, before the games or the training before, you used to have penalty shootouts. What you're gonna if you go to penalty shootouts. And you used to do it in training, and it was great in training. There's not a hundred thousand watching you. And if you miss, you're gonna go out to the World Cup. And you cannot recreate that. And this is where you need the the players. Of the right temperament to take penalties. So, and you can't coach that. You cannot coach, no matter how many penalties you take in training, in the day before the game, you cannot coach recreating how much this means with a hundred million watching you at home. And it's funny because Bobby Robbs and one loved Bobby. And Bobby, you know, he gets people's names wrong and he used to go and he got really excited. And the penalty shootout, what you want your manager to do in the penalty shootout? Said, listen, lads, you've done so well. You've done fantastically. Here are you five penalty takers. Relax, go up and take the penalty. Bobby went up to Peter Birdsley. He went whispered in his ear. And he didn't. And obviously because we know Bobby, he knows not to take it too seriously. Yeah. As much as Bobby's being serious. He said, Peter, fifty million at home watching. Don't let us down. No, you might not. So because we know what Bobby's like and Bobby gets very excited. So we didn't take it too seriously. But that's no really not what you want. So you want the managers to calm you down.

speaker-1: Thanks, boss. Did you ever miss one in the big game?

speaker-0: I did miss penalties, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I was never afraid to miss. And I'm not blase enough to say I don't care if I miss. But what you do is you have to trust your technique and you hope that he goes in. But ⁓ I have missed. In fact, I've missed quite a few penalties. Jan Molby, I think he only missed one penalty out of like 40 on and Phil Neal. So I I I never really considered myself a penalty taker, which is the interesting thing because Johann Croyf, the great Johann Croyff, who's a great one of the greatest never mind players, managers in footballing brain. Jan Molby told me this. He never liked left footed penalty takers. And it's really interesting because he thinks, and I half agree with him, that left footed players are easier to read on a penalty than right footed players. As much as it sounds strange, and if you think about there's a lot of left footed people, most missed a few penalties as well. Lots of left footed players miss penalties. As much as they take ⁓ And I don't know why, but he thinks that Johann Cruyff, and maybe because Johann Cruyff said it is a full self fulfilling prophecy, but left footed players are easier to read on penalties. Are you right footed? No, no.

speaker-1: made me feel much better. Now I know why my Sunday league manager never got me to take a pen because I'm a left footer.

speaker-0: He didn't have to be on the bench all the time though. He could have put you in a team though, couldn't he?

speaker-1: I was left behind.

speaker-0: I'm only joking, I know you played. In fact, left back is not the worst position. And I'm sorry to tell you, Gary Neville. The worst position as you know growing up. 'Cause you know you're in school and you pick the teams and stuff like that. Who's the last person to be picked and put in? Right back. Right back.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. the one good thing about being a lefty is I always got to get. Because they go, you know, you're no good, but we haven't got anyone.

speaker-0: Yeah. Not only that, they also left footed players and and it's a little bit like the whole Everton Liverpool ⁓ you know they're bitter because you're never told nothing to do with that. Why left footed players? Because they look better and they only look better because it's unusual. If you had most people being left footed, then the right footed players would look unusual and think they look better. So left footed players always look better. So you must have look very good.

speaker-1: I don't think so. What should I call that? was rudimentary.

speaker-0: You tried you were Clubman of the Year. So you know what happens at ⁓ at who you were. What happens is ⁓ yeah. So you have ⁓ when I go and do presentations at at like youth clubs and they have player of the year, top goal scorer, and they always have Clubman of the Year. The club of the year is a little boy who turns up every single time for training, never gets a game, he's on the bench, never complains. Clubman of the year.

speaker-1: Not quite. As I say, they just didn't have any left footed players so I got a game which wasn't that good. Okay, so moving on, back to your old club. Iriola has been... Iriola has not what you want... Clonid. Yeah, has just been appointed.

speaker-0: Just over. Yeah. I've just learned Sobersly to say that. Please don't give me another one.

speaker-1: Anyway, enough of my probing, I've got a little question for you.

speaker-0: Hi John, Mark here, lifelong Liverpool fan. ⁓ what do you think of Arne Slot getting the sack after two seasons and winning the Premier League title? Yeah, a bit too quick, I think.

speaker-1: True Liverpool supporters are there with that accent.

speaker-0: Well, you they're well from Liverpool. Hang on a second. Hang on a second. I'm sure your background. My wife's from Liverpool, but her family are Irish. They're all Irish over there anyway. So he's a real one. ⁓ a lot of people say this, and it's probably true that he did it the wrong way around. Finish fifth first and win the league the second year. But having won the league in the first year, I think he should have been given the grace and the time of being able to especially with new players coming in as well. Five new players have come in. But as I said before, the club don't sat in the manager, the fans do. And the fans were too quick.

speaker-1: Could it be no real-

speaker-0: And I and well, why I say that is because if the new manager comes in now and it doesn't work straight to me, what are we gonna do? Are we just gonna go down the route? And I mentioned Manchester United of just sacking manager after manager after manager after manager, you'll end up and then the players just get into this this this this this way, ⁓ which is obviously not conscious of well, we don't have to win because the manager's the one who's gonna get the sack. Basically, yeah, and it's ⁓ it's a it's it it's an unconscious thing with the players, it's an unconscious thing that.

speaker-1: Tailwax the dog.

speaker-0: You know, if you turn up today and we lose, they're gonna boot the manager. So do we perform? And you've Manny Nike go through that for such a long time. ⁓ and I suppose Liverpool probably went through that after Kenny left for a while. You know, because until Jurgen Klub came, every manager just got the sack because Liverpool wasn't weren't doing it. Until Jurgen Klopp was given the power by the fans to say, no matter who we drop, no matter who I have a go at, Stephen Gerrard, whoever else, the fans are gonna back you. So the fans have to back.

speaker-1: I do have to say, as the bitter blue, do have to say, looking in from the outside, to sack a manager who's just won the Premier League the season before and is still in the Champions League, it's...

speaker-0: It's it's symptomatic of football. I'm not saying it's nothing to do with Liverpool as opposed to any other club. But what I would say is that and I mentioned it earlier, we have to be careful what we wish for. Because if you if you look at what, as I mentioned, Arteta, what he did losing, you know, Jurgen Klopp when he first came. We finished fifth. And in fact, sorry to Robert didn't again because our team missed out on the Champions League because we won the Champions League and finished fifth. So Everton would have been in the Champions League and we wouldn't. So finishing fifth, you were gonna say sack Jurgen Club, could he finish fifth? But we didn't because we trusted him. And he trusted him and he got better. Arteta trusted him. Guardiolo came third in his first year when he's expected to win. So as I'm saying, it's gone. A new manager comes in. But if it doesn't work straight away, we have to stick with it. He about six, seven. In the first season, about five years. Yeah. You had five years before you won't click. Yeah, before it all clicked. Now, of course, you're not going to be given five years, but you have to be given more time. And why you have to be given more time is because the players have to take responsibility. Meaning, meaning that if the question is, if we come off today and we've lost, who are the fans going to boo?

speaker-1: Go way back, I Ferguson added...

speaker-0: And as long as the answer is we're gonna boo the manager, the players absorb absolve themselves of responsibility subconsciously. Sorry to rob it in again to you, but you remember when Everton played Liverpool a couple of years ago and Liverpool played a virtual youth team in the cup. Now those they could be forgiven for thinking, well, if we lose this match, they're gonna boo the manager. But even everyone knew the players knew, these young players, if we lose today, they're not gonna boo Jurgen Klopp. So we have to perform. Yeah. Whereas if the answer is they're gonna boo them the the the manager, the players just go, Well, we haven't gotta perform. Yeah.

speaker-1: Okay, yeah, it's on them.

speaker-0: It's a subconscious thing. I never accused any player of not trying. I never accused. And the biggest example of that was Man United played Tottenham about a couple of years ago and Mickey van der Ven got the ball on the edge of Tottenham's box. He's a centre back for Tottenham and Man United were attacking. And he ran past Marcus Rashford. This is on the edge of Tottenham's box. He's the centre half. Ran past Marcus Rashford, who didn't chase him back. No one chased him back. He got to the o edge of Man United's box, crossed it to score, and they booed Amarin, the manager. What's that got to do with the manager of the players I'm gonna run? So if as long as you move the manager, the players absorb themselves of responsibility.

speaker-1: We've answered this question succinctly over and over there. I think a stat of air is that the first four managers of the month last season are all sacked. That kind of speaks volumes,

speaker-0: Well, this is where, you know, fans are so quick to either judge and feel ⁓ because when he came in, everybody and this is the same happening now. Everyone's going, he's gonna be great. We love him. That's what they said about slot, and he won the league. And you've never seen ⁓ and how often have you seen chairman, owners, arms round a manager on the press conference when they've signed him and said due diligence has been served, he's right now for the job. Three months later, new man, new man. Because and they They don't wanna do that. It's the fans who do it. And as I the fans backed clopp, even when they weren't great, backed Arteta and backed Guardiola. So we didn't back Arnie slot. So new managers here now. So we have to back him. It's great if you hit the ground running, everything goes well. But what we're gonna do, what you're gonna do is end up like Man United. Every year you just stack manager after manager.

speaker-1: So, on to next season, you manager, who would be your dream silence for Liverpool?

speaker-0: Got a bit of a bugbear about that as well. Because when Arnisat won the league in his first year, he signed Chiesa and Endo, who never played and we won the league. Now he signed Vert, Ekatike, spent 300 million and we have won the league. And we think let's sign some more players. That is not the solution to the problem. We don't need to sign players. You need to work with what we have. And we've got a good enough squad. Now, of course, Kanate may go, so we may need a centre back. So you're looking at situations like that. You've got Rio Ngomoa coming through, so you've got young players coming through. So you do not need to just keep signing players. And that's not the solution to the problem. Just sign players. Because first of all, you have to integrate them, which has been our problem. This year we've not integrated them. With the harmony with the fans and everything, then it's understandable. But they're good honestly, they're good characters. Verts order them. So they're not sick of they're they're not, you know, ⁓ people who are like arrogant and feel like, you know, we're gonna not play for the manager. They're not like that. They're good good characters. So new managers coming into a good team. But I so I wouldn't sign anybody for next year. Okay. I mean, I mean looking at the centre back situation, they've got a couple of young centre backs there, but it's a question of who you can get.

speaker-1: Looking around the rest of the league, Maresque is a city.

speaker-0: Well, w as well as so so ⁓ slot came, which is completely different to Klopp in terms of the way he plays. So that needed a revolution. And it worked the first yeah, it had to work now, we're trying to Ariola's gonna and it's gonna be how we're gonna figure that out. This is like he played on the Pep, nothing's gonna change at Man City in terms of the way they played. They could have done two things. They could have gotten a manager who's gonna come and he's gonna say, Right, I'm gonna do things my way and you know, we're gonna sign my players, we're gonna change the way we play, which is what Slot did. or because of Pep's way and Moreska who worked with him is gonna keep that same way, then I think that that would probably work easier than somebody coming into Liverpool because he's not necessarily gonna change the way Man City played, whereas slot did. So I think that that would be a good thing for Man City to do.

speaker-1: Alonzo and Chelsea.

speaker-0: Well, it's that's such an interesting one because everyone thought about Alonso coming to Liverpool. Now, as much as we talk about it and he plays for Liverpool, he's Liverpool hero. Anybody would want the Liverpool job with that with that relationship with Liverpool. Jurgen Klopp looming over you, no matter who you are, means if I come, it's always better to come three or four managers later. So everyone thought, O Ronso's gonna come to Liverpool. If he comes to Liverpool, I don't know he's different to Jurgen Club anyway. So he'll play a different brand of football anyway. So I think that a lot of people thought, well, why didn't he come to Liverpool? I think that it's not great to go to Man United after Bank after after Ferguson, Arsenal after Wenger, and Liverpool after Klopp. So ⁓ was the point. Yeah, so him always in. Of it is. And him going to Chelsea, which fantasy because Chelsea are are so far down that he can only get better. Because they've got good players. And once again, the harmony within the club of Chelsea wasn't right. The hierarchy felt that it was all about them and not the manager. So it kind of undermines the manager. So that's the only thing I'd say about Chelsea. Him going there, would he have that power? Because Chelsea don't like to give the managers the power. They sign the players to do whatever they want, and he's a manager who may want that power. But I think that.

speaker-1: Ciao.

speaker-0: Under any circumstances, Chelsea will do better next year and he can then say, Well, we've done better so it's a success. So that doesn't surprise me.

speaker-1: Right, moving on to another little tournament about to happen. little... It depends. Yeah, yeah, The World Cup. Do know why I feel weird? I'm normally really, really excited by this point. And it kind of just seems so distant.

speaker-0: What the software Well, you know, the World Cup is really interesting because when you used to just have it in all of the footballing South America, Europe, Italy, Germany, England, whatever, everyone's excited all the time. Then when it started to go to even Russia, for example, or then of course it went to Qatar, and people have would say like, well, are we getting up for the World Cup? But once it starts, it's different. Because of course, leading up to it in America, the Rasmus, Qatar was all the controversy, blah, blah, blah. But once the first game comes and we see the games growing, the World Cup is exactly the same. What isn't the same, I suppose, is because of of of of from a financial point of view is you don't see the working class fans who go to the World Cup and they're so f it's always like, you know, it's not the not the not the real football fans, if you like, being able to go. But nevertheless, the colour, the atmosphere, the the the playing, the matches are exactly the same. So it's

speaker-1: But the cheap seats in the gods are a thousand dollars. ⁓

speaker-0: No, no, so I so so from that perspective, from the commercialization of it, which is very similar to the commercial commercialization of the Premier League. Because you know you're talking about how much it costs to go to a football match, but then they find the money, but they can. World Cup's different you're not gonna fly all the way to America, you can't afford it. However, the point I'm making is that from a spectacle, be it on television, which we're not gonna go to, we're gonna see it on television. Come on. Yeah. It it is well sorry. I shouldn't have said that. Italy never qualified, didn't they? Germany versus England or or whoever's gonna play, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be fantastic. Regardless of all the Rasmus in America gonna try and have different halftime shows and it's gonna be this, it's gonna be that, you like it or you don't, but the games are what it's all about and they'll be great.

speaker-1: We'll staying up to watch the late ones.

speaker-0: ⁓ but I'm gonna I'll be I'll be ⁓ I'll be doing a lot of work here for corporate work ⁓ for the World Cup. So I I will be. I don't think I'll be staying up at home watching the games. And it depends what game it is. Yeah, there's so many teams there now, you know, if it's a game that you don't really wanna, you know, but it if it if it's England or Brazil or someone staying, I definitely will, yeah. France. Fancy France. ⁓ France are strong technically, physically, they've got a good attitude.

speaker-1: Would you fancy? Yeah.

speaker-0: They have a good manager who who rules those little those players are much more respectful of the manager and and they're football fans. They're not I mean, Dembele's may we may see him as a superstar, but he's respectful for his teammates. I think England's a is a country whereby our players are bigger than the manager, are bigger than each other in terms of we love Harry Kane and we love Jude Bellingham, but he's not great. Whereas if you've got Spain and France and these other teams, they're like Paris and Germain, regardless of whether We view their big players as superstars more than their teammates, they don't. That's a real team.

speaker-1: What think of the England squad?

speaker-0: Ingham Squad is really interesting. And I and I tell you what, just like I back Arnie Slott whatever decision he makes, and I'll back Ariol in whatever decision he makes, forget about what I say on we think about Phil Foden and Cole Palmer. If Thomas Tuchel says the way I'm going to play, they do not fit into the system I want to use, we can't tell him you should have taken them and played them. Because he has to do what he wants to do.

speaker-1: But you do, as soon as I saw the squad, I immediately, I personally immediately thought like, you know, where's the disruptor?

speaker-0: Right. Well them well, Cole Palmer and and and and and Phil Foden aren't. So they've got Eddie Hannison, they've got Morgan Rogers. So ⁓ this is how I this is how I I I say to people Jurgen Club Pep Bardiolo, Man City Liverpool. There's very few man Liverpool players who are getting Man City's team. Pep would have very few of them, if any, and Jurgen will not have any of those Man City players because of the way they play. So it's not a question of who's good, who's bad. The manager has to decide how he wants to play, and those players have to fit into that. So as much as we're fans, we love the Cole Palmers and the Phil Folders and you're all skillful. Thomas Douglas' more pragmatic. He'd rather have Elliot Anderson and people like that. And in many respects, if you look at what it takes to win, when you're playing in the early stages whereby defending deep against you need players, you can open it up and let's score four and five against these small teams. Phil Fohn and Cole Palm are brilliant. You play against France, Spain, they're gonna have more possession than you. Yeah? You need players like Morgan Rogers, you need players like, you know, Elliot Anderson, and those are the players he likes. And if they're the players he likes, he picks them. I can't, you can't argue with them. until he loses and then he can then go well you should have taken these players, which is what Garrett Southgate did. He just picked the players who everybody liked and if you last you're gonna go, Well I've picked the best team, so you can't come you you can't have a go at

speaker-1: I mean, if I was going to continue with my bitter blue theme, I would say that, you know, to take Jordan Henderson instead of James Garner, it's just, it's criminal in my mind. Henderson, he's got the experience.

speaker-0: season. No, no, no, no. But to be honest with you, ⁓ I think James Garner is one for the future. But I and and of course he's looking at experience, but James Garner is not a player who's gonna go and play in the team, which means that he's gonna go and be a part of the squad. Now James Garner and Jordan is probably just gonna be part of the squad. So he's looking at his leadership qualities around the squad, not to be on the pitch. Because James Garner isn't gonna go in the going the first eleven. So what value is he going to give just being in the squad as a leader or as somebody who's in and around the squad who understands that. So ⁓ from a playing perspective I don't think that Jordan's necessarily there for that. But ⁓ I think that ⁓ I think Jordan could be a good good guy around the around the dressing room.

speaker-1: Give us an outsider tip. Who would you really like to shine?

speaker-0: Well, you I did this thing where they talk about dark horses and outsider tips. Reals student of international football from the World Cup in nineteen thirty that ⁓ that Uruguay ⁓ Brazil won, then Uruguay won the next two, then Brazil won the next one. No, all the way around. Uruguay, Brazil, Brazil, Germany. ⁓ sixty-two was Brazil, sixty-six England, seventy was ⁓ Brazil, center four West Germany, Argentina, England, Spain. Then no outsiders on dark horses. No matter what we think, it's not going to be a known. What you can have is you can get to a semi final like Morocco. And have that. So when people think an outside tip to win the World Cup, in the last hundred years there's not been one and there ain't gonna be one now. What can happen, it's obviously you can have a Morocco getting there and it's something Morocco could beat Brazil or beat someone. But listen, once you get into the semifinals, finals, it's gonna be the same people. Who do you think? Come on, give me an outside tip.

speaker-1: Oof. I am, I am, I am. Where was I?

speaker-0: You know, people look at an African country 'cause they've got such good players, you're looking at Senegal, you're looking at Egypt.

speaker-1: But no, no, South American.

speaker-0: But it's Brazil and Argentina if not an outside to just paragraph teams like I'll tell you why it's hard in football, in the World Cup particularly, because what can happen in cup matches, FA Cup, you don't know who you're gonna draw. You can win the FA Cup, Champions League, you don't know who you're gonna draw. Even in the World Cup, you don't. But you know once you get to the last 16, they're gonna be good teams. Which means that you have to put a run to win it of four games, quarterfinals, sorry, last 16, quarterfinals, semifinals, finals against hard teams. Now you could be lucky in one of them, you can't be lucky in all.

speaker-1: for. ⁓

speaker-0: Overkill. Well, you have to then look at the politics as we have done in the Premier League, the politics of football, which means that FIFA have a decision to make. These FIFA ⁓ executives have to say, right, the votes we're gonna vote as to whether they're gonna keep me in power. The infantine or somebody else. Now the European teams and the South American teams don't like this because there are too many teams in. So there are ⁓ fifteen European teams and there are ⁓ ten South American teams. They hate me. They have to vote me into power. You've got another eighty countries. If I'm gonna give them a chance, they're gonna vote for me to they're gonna vote for me. So it's a political thing. So as much as we think we have the power in Europe, so if the Italians and the English and we complain blah, blah, blah, we are they have one vote. And Papua New Guinea have one vote. So the Englishman hasn't got any more power than Papua New Guinea. So if you've got lots of 80 countries who you say to them, I'm gonna give an opportunity to go to the World Cup, who are you gonna vote for? You think the Englishman, the the the the CEO from England or these big countries say, We're not gonna let them come in. So it's a political thing. Which and not only that, everybody deserves a chance. Everybody like is when we had the World Cup in other countries. You know, the World Cup was always going to be in South America or Europe and these other countries, Saudi Ara ⁓ Saudi Arabia is going to Qatar, says we can host it. No, you shouldn't because that's too elitist. Football belongs to the world. So sure it

speaker-1: and for balance, know, yeah, talk about the whole nation, Scotland, will they make it through?

speaker-0: You know, I can't I can't I have to laugh. And I tell you why I'm laughing. I tell you why I'm laughing. Because, you know, I I I I was very reticent to say what I really feel, but I'm gonna say what I feel because I came to England as a 13-year-old from Jamaica. They started playing for England. I don't know how. I want to start playing for England, home internationals. Scotland, Wales, Ireland. Whenever you speak to the players, speak to everybody, they can go, We hate England. We don't want England to win. Yeah? And even now, Ali McCoyce will go on on stalk sports, England playing. Well, you know, we don't want England to win because we're Scottish. Now playing for England. We can't say we don't want Scotland to win. I don't know why. Because they didn't want England to win. So I'm saying, no, we don't want Scotland to win. And everyone says, You're out of order, you're wrong. But why can Scots and Welsh and Irish say we're hating that we don't want to win because of whatever? But we have to pretend that we want Scotland to do well. So, you know, and of course it's made with love. Yeah. With love. Get ⁓ out.

speaker-1: Hahaha!

speaker-0: And they shouldn't be offended because we're not offended when you say we hate that. Honestly, I remember we played in Home International. We played in Home International.

speaker-1: It is weird isn't it? If I'm watching Ireland or Northern Ireland or any of the other home nations, can you want them to win?

speaker-0: You can't say you want them to win. Up but I can do Yeah. No but ⁓ no forget about whether you do or you don't. I'm talking about what you can say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Scots even even punters, Ali McCoy is on television and England being go, Well, you we want England to lose against us, whatever. I can't go and what Scotland's a pundit and go, Well, you know, I want somebody to beat Scotland. I just slaughtered. You just did. No, no, no. Let us in, please. No, no, no, because I because I'd like to be honest. Because you have to be honest. And I don't see why we have to pretend because the Scots and the Welsh don't pretend they like want England to win. So why do we pretend we want Scotland to win, even when we don't?

speaker-1: Let's talk your footballing past, Who was the hardest opponent you ever played against? You know, the player.

speaker-0: Well, I don't I don't look at I was very lucky. I played on the left, ⁓ which meant to come up against right backs and ⁓ maybe a coincidence, but all the lunatics were left backs. That's where you played, wasn't it? Stuart Pierce, Pat Vanden Helm, ⁓ you know, all of those lunatic Mark Dennis from Birmingham. So I was fortunate that I didn't really come up against players who really wanted to kill you and break leg and stuff like that. So I remember playing ⁓ again when when I played for Watford against with Nigel Callahan and you they used to go, let's swap and you come on this side. I said you stay over that side with those crazy people. The hardest players who've I played against were the were were were not In direct confrontation. And is it interesting? Well, the hardest players were all the the strikers and the scary ones. McCarthy? Billy Whitehurst. You know, I mean, so so it's not as if the defend yeah, the defenders were. So I was fortunate. I never came up against. Listen, everybody was physical then. So it wasn't an issue. It wasn't an issue whereby, ⁓ it's really tough. He's gonna kick you. That's the way football was. The hardest opponent that came against was was Viv Anderson. Not because he was tough, was because he was always attacking and I had to chase him back. And as a winger, my first job as much as people think you're a winger, you're a striker, you go forward, you score goals, you don't chase back. My first responsibility to the team was to chase back. And you see the way Jurgen Klopp plays, you chase back. Yeah, you can go forward and do what you want.

speaker-1: Would you just say that your first responsibility was chased by...

speaker-0: Absolutely. And never halfway line. Yeah, because one second, one second, one second, because we had the ball all the time. But when he played against a team where didn't have the ball, I had to chase back. So yes, Graham Taylor said, You let that fullback go and get a cross in. So I had to chase Garris Stevens. I had to chase back with Trevor Stevens. Don't even change. Because we dominated the ball. Seriously. I'm talking about forget about the fans look at me and they think, ⁓ you're going for it. No, no, no. My first responsibility was to play for the team. And if it meant we're playing against for me chasing back, that's what that's what I'd do. And Viv Anderson was always attacking. So therefore I chased him back. physically, ⁓ I don't ⁓ was you know, I mean when I played against Liverpool, Gramps

speaker-1: Was there anyone when you go on the field and go...

speaker-0: Yeah, but no not in the right back position. I mean, they were all you thought. Look at Graham Sooness and Jimmy Case. I mean, they were and Reedy and people like that. They weren't the the the tough players were the midfield players and the and the and the and the center forwards. They were the ones. The defenders were fine, apart from the ones at left back, like Pat Vandenhound there were just lunatics and Julian Dixon, people like that. So I was fortunate, but that wasn't even an issue. You know, because now you're talking about looking back, Vinnie Jones and people like that, and and people kinda remember that but it was like, Well, no, because that's what football was. It was a tough game.

speaker-1: You might probably raise your left back because my ethos has always been, it's a quote actually from even though I'm a blue, it's a quote from Tommy Smith. And Tommy Smith once asked, said, you know, you've got this young lad up against you tomorrow, he's pretty quick like you already. And said, no, I can run faster than he can hobble. And that was kind of my whole ethos.

speaker-0: ⁓ well I'm speaking about that. Yeah. Ball may go past but the player was But you know that's why playing now would be great because of V A R and stuff like that. He's not gonna get a yellow card for pulling somebody's shirt and stuff like that. So you can't be physical anymore. Yeah.

speaker-1: So that's the individual players. Which teams did you hate playing? You know, if you knew that they were coming up or...

speaker-0: Well, once again, I don't I you know, I I I don't like this thing. And it's when I played you had a lot of players who said I don't like this team but I don't like that player and therefore opposition fans hated them. Like you know, opposition fans hated Steve Maman because Maca's a real snarl and he kicks and he fights and whereas I never hated playing against anybody, didn't hate any opposition fans because I could have played for that club. If they signed me and I didn't go to Liverpool, I could have gone to Everton if they wanted me and Liverpool didn't. I could have played for Everton. They didn't want me, but I'm talking about so this whole idea was I could never play for them, I hate them. So there's no team I hated playing against.

speaker-1: But they must have been some club, know. Just hate this.

speaker-0: No, but you know why? Because had I signed for that club and I played well, I would have loved that club. So this whole idea of not Niking another club because you're playing against them is only because you're playing against them. If I was playing for them, I would like them. So the reality is that I don't hate them 'cause under different circumstances, I could have played for them if they wanted me and I wanted them. So no, ⁓ the the the scariest place I bit was Millwall. Now that's nothing to to do with hating Millwall, it's just the fact that it was a scary place to go when you go to the old cold cold blow lane. We had ⁓ when he came out of the ⁓ the dressing room, we had about a ten meter walk to the pitch and they had a cage which came up and across that went into the ground, out onto the pitch, because and the fans were and it's a it's a cage whereby if it was a no if if you couldn't see into the cage, it would have been fine. But it it it's like this a mesh wire and they were on top of the things and they were and that's the most aggressive place that I've been to. So that's from the library stand Yeah. And of course you rem we did Everton remember this. Do you not remember and it was on the video when Everton played in the cup a few years ago.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: And of course, I mean there are no more hooligans anyway, but there are a hooligans there with and these people were coming out of these apart these flats, you these these council flats in in the east center London. They weren't even at the game. They were coming out to fight the Avatolians. They were just coming flats. These women were going, Gap, get them these cockney women. That's a scary place.

speaker-1: West Ham when it was for me. Away at West Ham. Used to scare the devil out of me.

speaker-0: Westham and Millwall were bad. But it's really interesting because when you talk about the holy guns in the old days, it wasn't Liverpool and Everton and Man United and the big clubs. Bristol City, S ⁓ Cardiff, Birmingham, Millwall, these clubs are the ones where, you know, and if you go and watch England play, you see all of these flags. You don't Everton and Liverpool and Man United flags when you watch England. You just see those kinds. Good old days. Okay.

speaker-1: Talking club wise, who did you consider in your playing games, I think you might have just alluded to a bit before, as your biggest rivals?

speaker-0: But of course. Luton, Watford, come on, please. You don't get much bigger than that, do you? And interestingly, you know, because Watford, we finished second in the league to to Liverpool. Both of us had come up from the second division to the top division. Luton won the League Cup. So as much as you know, they're not big clubs, the rivalry and it wasn't intense rivalry, you know. The songs were Luton. Watford. And it was more like, You're rubbish, you're rubbish.

speaker-1: too. You

speaker-0: So I'm not sure they're close, but of course the Liverpool-Everton thing at that time, more to do with the fact that they were the two top teams. You know, because when you're talking about Everton winning the league one year, then Liverpool the following year, Everton one year, Liverpool the following year, that intense rivalry was obviously huge. I played for Newcastle as well. ⁓ Sunderland were in the division below, so but that rivalry was a big rivalry as well. ⁓ but you know, I don't think you can get anything bigger. Even Arsenal Tottenham, because in in in London, there are lots of different clubs. you know, Chelsea, Arthur, West Ham, whoever else. Whereas the and and the stadiums as you know are so close together. Yeah. So the ⁓ the Liverpool Everton rivalry is something apart from which I'm not a big fan of because of the nastiness it from a religious point of view, the Celtic Rangers thing I'm not a big fan of, but that's a b huge rivalry as well. That's ⁓ that's more than football, which it's because of the whereas the biggest one for me and I love to go to the Bombonera to watch River Plate versus Bocker Jr. Have you really? Yeah. In River Plate or Bombonera, ⁓ Bocker Jr. has

speaker-1: I have a at in Bommine.

speaker-0: That's the bucket. That's the

speaker-1: Well, let's put it, there's two things, well, there's three things I remember about it, three facts that came out of that match. ⁓ was one of the greatest jobs I ever had. went to every team, I went to the country, sorry, I went to every country that was gonna be in the USA World Cup. And in that country, I watched the Derby. It took us about six months, just going all over, well, you know, it wasn't the worst gig in the world.

speaker-0: How long did that take you?

speaker-1: Bocca versus River Plate, okay? Three things stick in my mind. The camera has a little spirit level here, so they can make sure that all the picture's gonna be straight. And the cameraman couldn't level it because the stadium was moving so much and that stadium was made of concrete. The whole stadium was bouncing. He literally said, look at this, I cannot level the camera, because the bubble was just going all over.

speaker-0: That's it.

speaker-1: And the other thing about it, and I don't know why this happened, whether it was one-off or not, it started all chanting as the teams came out. And I'm like, I know this, I know this song. the whole of the Bombanera, all of the Bachra fans were singing John Denver's You Fill Up My Senses.

speaker-0: The whole Was there in English or Spanish?

speaker-1: That was their song. What's going on? And then afterwards, this is the dark side of it, afterwards, we were talking to the police and the chief of police, who had given us some security as well, the chief police said, had a very, very successful game. We really kept control of the crowd. Only three people were killed. That's Bocha River place. It was just... It was a real privilege. ⁓

speaker-0: So that's that's that's that's the one I want to go.

speaker-1: Sorry, one last thing to remember is this is kind of how crazy it was. So everyone's there in the home, so all the home end are ready. And then just before kickoff, the home end parts and leaves like a 300 yard space into which come the ultras. And then it closes up again. It's like, I don't want to meet those people. But as far as, yeah, it was. ⁓ I was just laughing while we were there because I just couldn't resist it. Our fixer, the guy who was looking after us while we were there said, I know where Maradona lives. Ask him call. So we went to call from Maradona. I was young, impetuous. And so we went and just pressed his buzzer. And I think it was his dad answers. not me, Spanish isn't good, but I think it translated into, fuck off will you.

speaker-0: Cold call, just knock on the door.

speaker-1: So we didn't actually get to interview Maradona but he buzzed his buzzer. And we also had a kick about on the very patch of dirt where he started playing football, was quite a moment. There you go, sorry. I digress.

speaker-0: Not at all. He's my favourite player in the world ever, Diego. And I can tell you when I played Alan, and this is a funny story, when I played when I was going on for England in the World Cup, I'm gonna be like against Maradona. That's my greatest. I mean, I love him, greatest player ever. And ⁓ as I'm about to go on, it's obviously the handball and Bob Robson got you going on, so stood at the side of the pitch. And I'm watching Diego. And this is just before I went on, and he got the ball, and he went past ⁓ Glenn Hoddle. ran past Peter Reed, ran past him, but I'm standing about, about to go on the pitch for England and I'm watching him, love him. I've got my three three lines there. I'm about to go into England for my first World Cup match. How proud am I to play for England? But I'm standing on the side of the pitch as he's about to score, as he goes round and scores. It takes every ounce of strength in me, in my England kit, not to go.

speaker-1: may really look like he was running back.

speaker-0: I could not appreciate a goal like that from Diego. It was just incredible. It was incredible. Yeah. And I c I wish I got his shirt as well. Six million quid, but there you go.

speaker-1: Wow, what a memory though.

speaker-0: Absolutely love them.

speaker-1: So you literally lived off your silky skills, all close control. What was it like when you go in the FA Cup or the League Cup and you turn up at some second division club?

speaker-0: But how do we once again, once again, everyone has a misconception of me because they see the way I play and they think, ⁓ he just wants to play and he doesn't chase back and he'd going to a small ground. When I played for Watford, Graham Playlist said, Listen, your most important thing is your teammates, the respect that you have. I came from a small club. Watford's a small club. And we used to look at the way when we played Arsenal and teams like that, we finished second in the league. As much as we are Watford, and every time we played against Tottenham, Glen Huddle, they like, ⁓ who are these players? Blah, blah, blah, and whatever. So I grew up that way. So I would never go and play at Bristol City and fear that, ⁓ we're in Liverpool. And that was never a Liverpool thing. Liverpool thing was about playing the game, not the occasion. So if Liverpool played against Bristol City, we would have the same attitude for playing against Man United. That's a Liverpool thing. When I came up for Bill Shank, the epitomized, that's what Ronnie Moran, that's what Liverpool was all about. It's not about playing against the big boys. And in fact, look at Ian Rush, for example. How many goals has Ian Rush scored? In his first six, seven years of playing for Liverpool, he never scored once against Man United. But because he's winning the league every year and he's working hard, it doesn't matter to him. So we never prioritize big games and I never did that. So I never felt so people say, you know, do you prefer playing at Old Trafford or are you playing any big games? I said, no. That means that you're cheating in the other games. So I approached every game in the same matter. Bristol City, all these small clubs, Everton, all of them I would just approach, ⁓ cut that bit out. Cut that bit out.

speaker-1: I mean just the state of the pitches you know the most it must be

speaker-0: No, but what I'm talking about is that. And if you were like that. No, the there were because people look at you know, and you're I mean you're still young, but you're old enough to know better. When people look at the pitches now and they think, ⁓ and I talk about pitches back then, but pitches back then was not just the smaller clubs. Our pitch. You look at some of the games we played, there was just no grass and it's bobbly. So and then the tackles. No, there was a big leveler in the way football was back then. You know, you're talking about, you know, Mosel and Liverpool now going to play, you know, against crew. And it's like, ⁓ we're playing in look at the stadium, look at the pitch, look at the facilities, the behind the cold showers. That was us. ⁓ That was us. It doesn't matter to us.

speaker-1: The one I always remember is Derby County, the baseball ground. You needed a canoe. It was just a bit poorly.

speaker-0: On that particular day. But I played an Anfield when it's been like that. Mod everywhere, you know. So yeah, no. Y you youngsters with your Premier League guys is a bit different. You thank you very much, John.

speaker-1: most part you know. Right. This is the bit where I get to take a rest, take a backseat because the questions come from you. If you want to ask a question, submit it on your phone, but film it this way, please. That way, basically. Not this way, this way. That's how we want it. All right. John has not heard any of these questions before. I'm just going to hit them with you. Here's your first question, mate. Hey, John. My name's Matt. ⁓ Huge fan of yours. Huge Liverpool fan. I work as a personal impact coach. And I'd love to ask you, you once said about it takes a special character to play for Liverpool FC. For you, if you could define who, what does that special character look and sound like? What are the qualities that they need to have? And what are those qualities that those special characters need to have to get Liverpool back up playing for the title and the Champions League next season?

speaker-0: Of humility, one of respect for the community, respect for your teammates, regardless of whether you're playing in the first team or you're in the youth team. So when I when I came to Liverpool, the superstar players never saw themselves any difference to the to to the s the lesser players. And that's the character that that that you need to have to be the successful team. I mentioned Paris and Germany, look at them now. So Liverpool was never about Russian Down Clech. It was always about the the Samilees and the Jimmy Cases and the so-called unsung heroes, because that's what makes a good team. So therefore you have to have that mentality. To even become a Liverpool player back then, 'cause Liverpool looked at your character before they looked at your ability. Glenn Hall is my favourite player ever. Better I've never seen a player like him. I don't think he could have played for Liverpool. He's not better, he's not worse, he's different. Jurgen Club's players are different to Tep Gaudio's players. So Liverpool you have to have a huge and I don't think you you're a scoutson. You can't walk round town. I was just thinking you can't walk round town with your nose in the air because you're a superstar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the characters you're the players and a certain so many players who aren't as good as other players, but they would

speaker-1: down to it with a

speaker-0: make it at Liverpool because of their character. And that's the character I'm talking about. Scouse character. Even if you're not a Scouser. ⁓

speaker-1: It's completely true, think, because once upon a time when I was there on Brookside, was exactly the same, you if you walked into a club thinking, I'm all that, yeah, oh, if you would just be this strong.

speaker-0: I remember walking down concert square once. I was playing for Newcastle and left and I've come back and I'm walking through concert square and there's young kid. He looks about fifteen, so I don't know why he had a pint in his hand, but he had. So he's a young kid sitting in concert and I'm walking through and he goes, Bouncy, bouncy, and he goes, Here we go, here we go. And he's like, But I I know. And he goes, ⁓ And I'm just walking by. I'll Hi, how you doing, man? How you doing? He goes, he's like that. He goes, Give us a rap. Give us a rap like that. And I thought, so I went, ⁓ no, mate, my rapping days are over. That's what I said as I walk by. And under his breath, he went, Your football days are over as well.

speaker-1: Yeah, exactly.

speaker-0: And then I thought, do I come back and find something? I thought leave it. Leave it and just get on. And also

speaker-1: Just to point out as well, do know the defending attack is a wrap-free zone. It's dropped out.

speaker-0: It's not W P or R A P or both.

speaker-1: All right, next question.

speaker-0: Hi John, this is Olga. Is there any clubs you wish you l played for? Well, that's a very interesting question because w I came to Liverpool at twenty three and remember Luther basically going to ACM LAN and I was so jealous because back then you look at Chris Waldo, myself, the so called technical players. I don't believe that we were appreciated in England playing for England. England was about fighting and, you know, Terry Butcher and and and and Brian Robson and that kind of stuff. We were in a technical ⁓ it wasn't a technical environment. So all the technical players were never appreciated, I thought, playing for England. Glenn Hoddle. Favorite player ever. He would have about a hundred cats for any other country. Fritzwaddle myself. So I wanted to go abroad because all the best players were going to see like now, all the best players have come to the Premier League. Back then they were going to to Italy. So I could have gone to Roma. ⁓ I could have gone to Real Madrid, funny enough. John Tyshak actually phoned somebody, not me, what do I know? And ⁓ and he said, Would you come to Real Madrid? And I said, Well, I'm happy at Liverpool. ⁓ if you make a bid and Liverpool want to talk, then I'll talk. But he wanted me to ask for a transfer. And I I'm never gonna go to Liponas for a transfer. So that didn't come about. But I would have loved to have gone to Europe because European football back then was very technical, like it is here now. Yeah. That's why I'd love to play now because it's just about the technique and the skill. So, but back then, you only allow two foreign players. So therefore, in each country. So in Madrid, in ⁓ Roma, AC Milan, they only had two foreign players. So I needed a player to go to go. Whereas now you can have as many as you want. ⁓ But I would have loved to have tried to play in in Italy at that time. Platini, Maradona, they were all there.

speaker-1: Right? Is that one?

speaker-0: Hi John. So I have two questions for you. First one is about corners. Corners are an absolute mess at the minute. Players are falling over like children. Referees don't know what to do. Penalties are given, sometimes they're not. Every corner is held up. It's a mess. What's secure and what should ⁓ FIFA do? My second question is about the eighty six World Cup when you made that glorious cross for Lenninger and somehow he headed it off the line rather than in the goal. If he had scored, would England have gone on to win the World Cup or were Argentina just too good? And do you still think about that moment? Right, well the first question. ⁓ what's the first question? What do you want to know? The first question was ⁓ what was the first question? Is it Is all ⁓ is all right, okay, yeah. So so here we are now in 2026. And I remember when I started playing as an 18-year-old and the older players would Well my day this wouldn't happen, then I became a you know, then football changed, and of course I'm not gonna sit here now and because young people are now used to this. Corners taking time, whatever. So I can go, Well my day, you know, if you broke your fingernail, you wouldn't be injured and the referee would get booked at his change.

speaker-1: is all of.

speaker-0: This is modern football. This is modern life. We have to get on with it. I've got young kids who are on Instagram and YouTube and tw whatever it is. And I'm thinking, why are we doing this? So I don't want to come and say my day was better. And because if I was playing now and somebody touched me, I'd be going over for a free kick. Because this is what this is where we've been brought up. So I can't take my 63-year-old head and and and and still put it in a in a in a body of 25 and say, if I was playing now, I wouldn't be diving. I would not be, you know, ignoring people. I would be going to the pub like a normal person, because that's what they apart from Jack Reedish. He's probably old school. So football is what it is. It's a much better product in my opinion, in terms of for the older people who don't appreciate it, because now I don't suppose that, you know, players will then go to McDonald's three times a week. So they look after themselves more. They don't drink anymore, so it's much better. What I do like from my time, which I still think we could have now, football being a working class sport, footballers come into the compute community, the community supports football, is that footballers can still be part of a community. They don't have to be as part of the community as we were in terms of going to the pub and getting drunk all the time and that much. But they can still interact with they don't do that anymore. Right? So and that frontline point of view, I can tell you from the point of view and and why football, when he spoke about the laws of the games changing, the laws of the game should be there to to protect everybody. That's what the laws of sport does. You can't separate it. But we've separated it to say we have to protect the skillful players. So therefore we can't be too hard on the skillful players, which is ridiculous. The law should be there for everyone. So now When that came out a few years ago to then go, ⁓ you can't tackle, you can't so what's happening is that you see people diving, people being tripped, and they just fall over. And now we've had enough of us who say, We have to stop doing that. But we we opened that can of worms. Yeah. We can't put the genie back in the bottle. So therefore, we said if somebody pulls you, contact in the box. And we go, even on television, they go, Well, there's contact. But if that contact isn't enough to make you fall over, it's not a penalty. Whereas somebody feels if you feel a touch, you're gonna go over and they can legitimately say, Yeah, but he touched him. The touch is enough to make you go over, so the laws have to change. Now all of a sudden, because footballers and football managers know a way around it, we now have this wrestling in the penalty box. So you can see, and now all of a sudden who's wrestling who? You know, and therefore we we've just messed around with the laws too much to make it more complicated. Fa last thing I'll say about that is V A R I was never a fan of V AR. You should have just allowed a referee to do what he does, but if you make mistakes, you're gonna get criticized. V AR Now, with VAR, we get many more decisions right than we do wrong. Because how many times have we watched a game of football, anything, it's handball? VAR shows it's not. It's not handball. V AR says it is. It's a penalty, it's in the box, it's not in the box. But when you see VAR, they get most of the things right. When they get one or two wrong, we then say VAR is rubbish because they're getting this wrong. But if you think about the times when it's got it right, when we thought they were wrong and VR proved to be right, we moved that is moving in the right direction. No, no, no. Every thing's like a one second. Yes. So they get the VR decisions wrong. But how many times you've sat in a pub and you think it's in the penalty box, but it's not, and it's shown not to be. And you go, it's a penalty. ⁓ no, replay show is not a penalty. And without VAR, you'd be making many more wrong decisions. The ball's over the line? No, it's not over the line. His foot's in the box? No, it's not in the box. The one thing I'll say about that, because that's why I say, as much as we criticize VAR, the amount of times as football fans we go, he's offside. VR shows he's not offside. He's not offside. VR shows he's side. So I get it right. The one thing I'd say and I want everybody now, I want everybody to then start to then get in touch with the FAU have to get in touch with because we're so Pedantic about getting every single thing right. The one thing which is the easiest thing to get right, which no one gets right, no one bats an eyelid, foul throws. I'm not going to arsehole, but you see it. When people take foul throws and they pick this throw and throw it in the box and they lift their leg up. Have you ever seen a foul throw being given? And no one says, they're looking at everything until they go, it's a foul, he's lifting his leg up. But no one goes. So either you say there's no more foul throws, you jump, you blitz your leg up, and they just throw it like that. And for first to want to get every little thing right, but the obvious one. you have long throws going in the box and people are scoring goals and they ⁓ is it a foul? Is it a foul of goals? He's lifting his flipping leg up. It's a foul throw. Honestly, I suppose I'm being like an old grumpy old granddad. That's what I'm saying. So why I'm making this point is because everybody wants to point out that that that that that something has up because that's an opinion. You know, because I'm running with you pulling my shirt, VR can it's an opinion. You're pulling me, I'm pulling you. There's no opinion with foul throws. And they do it all the time. And it

speaker-1: You really are. ⁓ you really

speaker-0: We to start that foul throws. Have a look at You what's order then huh?

speaker-1: I never thought there'd be angry statements, foul throws.

speaker-0: No b no because we we're just so het up with getting every little thing right and I'm thinking there's an obvious one. You see the out he takes a foul for and eventually jumps and runs going, Is there any pulling in the penalty? I've gone, he's flipping jumped or they've got their foot on the pitch.

speaker-1: You've ranted on so much about foul throws, even I've forgotten what the second question was.

speaker-0: I don't care. I wanna get this foul throw thing at the ⁓ in in parliament for ⁓ on the agenda.

speaker-1: The second part of question was...

speaker-0: ⁓ I know. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Look, I told you, favorite player in the world, Maradona. And I have to say that was the best bit of defending. Is a player called Alarte Kachia. When I put it in, is it gonna go in? Well, maybe it looks as it's going in. Garoninika is inside the defender Alartecacia outside. If Garaninka touches it, it's gonna go in. If Alartecacia touches it, it's gonna be a non-goal because it's virtually on the line. And that's the best bit of defending I've ever seen. You look at it. He actually managed to ease Garaninika out way. There's the post. Not only the and there's the gold, it's gonna go the goal. He's eased him out the way, headed it around the post. I've never seen anything like it. So that's the first thing. Gary Lindeker would kick his own granite to score a goal. So not as if Gary could have got anything else. Nicest man in the world, but when it comes to scoring goals, he will do anything. So it's not Gary's fault. Great bit of defending. And even if Gary had scored, Maradona would have done something. He was unstoppable. You saw the goal against Belgium. So as much as people go, you know, yeah, that would have been equalized, we're gonna go and go and win it. Yeah. He was unstoppable that World Cup. You couldn't stop him. So I'm sure he would have done something to win it.

speaker-1: Right, right.

speaker-0: Okay, let's have another.

speaker-1: Hi John, did you actually like the taste of Lucas aid sport?

speaker-0: But it got to your third fast, didn't it?

speaker-1: It did. Was it isotonic?

speaker-0: It's so funny because ⁓ I remember doing the commercial for it. I remember the commercial for it. ⁓ It was like, we did two. The first one we did, because you know, people and television and football and starting to do, you know, a bit of media and and and we're doing commercials and you've got to do all this kind of stuff. So this is a new thing coming to football. So there goes, right, all these cameras around and go, Right, what we want you to do is we wanted to we want you to this the first Lucas A commercially did. He goes, Right, we want you to do the c someone's gonna kick the ball in from the from the corner flag, take the corner. ⁓ I'm on a pitch in Hackney March in yeah, in London. And he's gonna kick the ball in and we want you to stand on the edge of the box and we want you to volley it into the net. And I said, ⁓ and it was like just one of the the the the gaffers, he said, he's got his boots on. I said, You're gonna kick the ball into the corner and I've got to volley from you in the box. I said, Is he in the shot? They went, no. I said, Well, why doesn't he just come and just throw me the ball? How long is it gonna take him? How long to gonna go? So I said, Okay, that's the first thing. Okay then. So they go, Right. I'm on the edge of the box. I've gotta volley this ball into the net. The cameraman and the director went into the net. You see a net? And he's got it's a tight shot behind the goal. I'm on the edge of the box. I've got to volley this ball into the net. And he's held up three squares of the net. He goes, it's a tight shot. You've got to hit that. I've gone, Are you joking? He goes, Can't can't you do it? Julian's faith in you. Can't you do it? I've gone, listen, put it back, put the whole net, and I'm sure I'll be able to hit the net one in ten goals. Because people think that as a footballer, you can do all of these things juggling. And then the second one, the one where actually they kicked it into the into the thing.

speaker-1: Okay.

speaker-0: He said, the bin was over there. And he goes, Right, I want you to someone gonna throw the and it's a squeezy butt. It's not it's a squ you know remember the squeezy ones. Yeah. Someone's gonna throw it to you, chest it, then volley it into the bin over there. Once again, I've said. And then when I went, Are you you want me to volley a squeezy thing into and they all look at each other going, can't you do that? Because you hear f stupid stories about footballers, juggling and all that kind of stuff. I said, Is that in the shot? I said, What I'll do is throw it to me. I will then volley it up in the air. Yeah, 'cause that's what you're gonna see. And then let somebody just stand above the bin and then drop it in the bin and you can see it going in the bin. That's cheap. And that's what they showed. We would have been there all day, have to pick the kids up from school, flip it out. Throw me that water bottle and the cat on the back of my neck and then head it into the thing. So when these this is when people because people hear about football and being able to do all of these crazy things. They said, No, it's not real. But so the Lucas said, ⁓ I wish it was ⁓ Hendrix Jin, it would have been better, wouldn't it? Yeah. But if really

speaker-1: was funny, you were wearing cap, it's like Vanguard.

speaker-0: And I remember Yeah, well of course got commercials and started coming in and stuff and we mentioned candy. Yeah. ⁓ and of course you remember the candy thing when we got a we went and got a ⁓ washing machine. ⁓ yeah, Lucas Aid is just roads and Lucas A. Roads and Lucas Aid. Yeah. I that's why I was sure I should have just asked for money, shouldn't I? I said a LucasAid and flipping c washing machines and try sell them on the back of the car. Whereas now the player said, I don't care what you want to do, we just show me the money. Never mind all of rumors you're gonna get loads of candy paint or whatever. But so yeah, so ⁓ so I did get lots of Lucasade, yeah. And it got to the first fast. Right.

speaker-1: from off the socials? Do you think you played in the best possible era that suited your game, or do you think he could have been more successful in another era?

speaker-0: ⁓ I would have been much better now. Because now, being left footed, so would you. Because being left footed, I would be playing on the right, like mostana, which means you're coming in to score goals, which means that's where the big bucks are. Whereas when I played in my position, go down the line, put crosses in for rush in all these people to score the goals, get the glory, Gary Lincoln, everyone like that. So ⁓ I played in the right era, as far as I'm concerned, in terms of what I consider the way football should be in terms of the relationship footballers have with their fans and the community. Yeah. ⁓ which was great. Financially, I played in the wrong era because and I I can't say that because I was the first ten thousand pounds a week player in the country and people said football went mad. Ten thousand pounds a week and it's lot of money, even now. But back then it was a lot of money. And everyone thought it can't get better than this and they get four hundred grand a week. ⁓ so from a financial point of view, yes. But when I played, you look at the money that players made, you look at the life they could lead, a normal life, just being a normal person, whereas now the intrusion that the players have or they feel they have that they can't do, ⁓ I mean they're earning a lot of money, but You know, is that balance right? Whereas I think that my era but once again I'm not because I'm sure that Stanley Matthews and George Best would have said in my era it was great as well. So I'm not football is great whichever area it plays in. Any team from the sixties to the eighties is the same. There's no better player than any other player, there's no better team than any other team. You know, was the centy eight Liverpool team better than the eighty four, better than this team? These are just nice pub questions. Which players better, you know, are w was Dal Gleech better than me. So, you know. You better get

speaker-1: Houston, there's some coming up. This is defending attack.

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, as I said, you know, was Joe George Best better than I mean, drunk more than them, but you and he had a better time. But ⁓ yeah, I I I I try and look at any top team, any top player of any era for the last hundred years and say they're exactly the same. And any top player in the twenties, the top player now. What we can't do is we can't take Lionel Messi, put it back to Night till fifties with Stanley Matthews and say he'll be doing better because you look at him now. You bring Stanley Matthews to twenty twenty-five and he wouldn't be playing the way he was in nineteen fifty. Like looking at if he was walking to be exactly the same.

speaker-1: Anyway, thanks for that question from Cam Jones. Keep them coming in.

speaker-0: Okay, John.

speaker-1: Quickfire time, this is all about defending attack, right? I ask you the question, tell me if I'm a defender or an attacker, and give me a succinct answer. Are you ready? Yeah, quick as you can. It's coming home.

speaker-0: Attack. It can come home, possibly, but if I don't put my house on it, I'll attack that.

speaker-1: Drop in trends.

speaker-0: I started off by saying I trust the manager, Trent won't fit into what he wants, so I will defend that decision.

speaker-1: 80s Liverpool team versus the 25 LFC champions.

speaker-0: What rules are we playing? Are we playing today's rules? They would beat us five nil. Playing our rules, we beat them five nil.

speaker-1: So we're playing today's rules.

speaker-0: They would beat us. So 'cause we'd end up with six men on the pitch, red cards everywhere.

speaker-1: So that was an attack. Yeah, VAR.

speaker-0: Tack. Defend. Does that mean I like it? Yes. Defend. Gets more things right than wrong. It's not perfect, but it gets many more right than it does wrong.

speaker-1: John Barnes on Strictly.

speaker-0: Defend.

speaker-1: Fair enough, you have the fee for it, didn't you?

speaker-0: Well I a ten, I the first one to get a ten. On the not in the the the technical slow dances or the ballroom dances, but in the the sambra and stuff like that. You know, I've got the hips. Defend. Because you may need defend deep, get the ball in the box, big centre forward, not to start, but on the bench to bring him on when necessary.

speaker-1: as a penalty taker for England.

speaker-0: Defend. He's a penalty taker, he happens to have missed one, but we've all missed penalties. And if you have the bottle to take it, I'd always defend him.

speaker-1: Premier League, best league in the world.

speaker-0: defend. Does that mean yes? Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. You look at Crystal Palace and was it Nottingham Forest who won the Europa League in the other league. We can go all the way down to tenth and still be competitive. The rest can't.

speaker-1: I would completely agree with you as well. When I go filming away doing football magazine programmes and that, you go to Amsterdam, you go to Rotterdam and then you go and see the other clubs. And then you go out into, still in the top flight, it's like Macclesfield ground and they're in the top flight.

speaker-0: Final couple of It's not even that it's quality. Because I can tell you Harry Kane scored sixty-one goals in the Premier League at his age, as he did in Germany.

speaker-1: White Armani suits are clack.

speaker-0: Because they were cream. They were not white. ⁓ we're not white. See what you secondly, now this is asymptomatic of football in a nutshell. We win that cup final, we'll be as cool as anything. Yep. But because we lost, we look like a bunch of idiots. What's the reality? You really are. You get that is making us those suits mean nothing if you if you win. Yeah. If you lose, you look like a bunch of idiots. So in reality it's not important there.

speaker-1: the Harry at Manchester United.

speaker-0: Defend. ⁓ but you have to give him time. You have to give him time. And the players have to respond. If they lose a couple of matches and he shouts and screams at and drops them, the fans have to back that. Because like when Oli Gulli Solcho was there and the fans liked him, everybody liked him, lots of couple of games, the players didn't respond because he's not gonna shout and scream at them. You see what happens.

speaker-1: John Barnes worth more than £150 million today if playing.

speaker-0: John Barnes playing today. Contract runs down. Go on a free transfer or big signing on fee. Why do I want to go for £150 million? I'd much rather have that myself. Like Mo is going to do when he goes. Hey, so, so I would want to be worth £150 million? Yeah. But I wouldn't want the club to get $150 for me. I'd rather just get it myself. Free transfer. Contract runs down. We all would. Come on, please. Yeah. Who wouldn't want to sign a contract?

speaker-1: That's very honest, that's very honest.

speaker-0: Come on. And I can tell you the Saudi Arabia thing would look quite attractive as well, I have to say. And not when I'm thirty two, maybe when I'm twenty two, who knows? Only joking folks. Never.

speaker-1: Well I enjoyed that John.

speaker-0: How about you? So did I. That five minutes was great. It seemed like it was five minutes.

speaker-1: I know. Once you get chatting, we can just go on and on.

speaker-0: It went quickly, didn't it? Absolutely. Especially when talk about Everton and Liverpool. We didn't really get into that, did we?

speaker-1: Well, yeah, yeah, I think you were quite kind to me, really, particularly in the current situation.

speaker-0: Only for my brother not. Current situation, please. How one are Everton doing in comparison to us? You can't just listen, I cannot believe you're not reveling in what Liverpool are going through. And continuing Everton are doing quite well as well. But you're just never happy, are you? No. Everton are just ne no matter what happens, they're never happy.

speaker-1: not unhappy, I told you. Over and over again we say this. I'll just say it to you, over and over again. know, 53 derbies, we won four.

speaker-0: Not even the past. Let's talk about the last one. The last one was a draw?

speaker-1: That wasn't

speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. w that's

speaker-1: So that's our celebration, it? A draw, woo, we drew. It's not good enough, anyway. Keep those comments coming in and of course, subscribe. What we really want you to do, if you enjoyed it, and send it to your mates. John, absolute.

speaker-0: That's what Pleasure. Pleasure. I'll see you again very soon.