Andy: Hello and welcome to Strange Stuff. My name is Andy. And ⁓ I'm Mark. Hello. Hello, hello. You caught me a bit by surprise there. I was trying to find somewhere to put my tea. You sit waiting for me to call you and then I surprised you. Well I was checking the Skype screen to see if you were lit up but you weren't, so I was 'cause I've moved into my new house now. ⁓ I could see, yes, totally different background. That's a much nicer background. Yeah, there's no The background you had reminded me of my ⁓ great great aunt's fucking Welsh dresser when I was a child. Yeah and then you had some weird photos on there. It was like It was ⁓ decorated last in the nineteen fifties, I think. Yeah, it's yeah, there was something quite creepy about it though, it has to be said as a backdrop. Which I quite liked because Yeah, no, if you stuck a couple of skulls or so you know, a couple of more weird photos up there. But then nobody sees you anyway, do they? So it doesn't matter. Yeah, I know, that's a problem. Well it's not a problem. I've No. I've still got to work. I can see that my mic boom is right in my face here. There we go. How ⁓ how was the move then? Have you finished moving? ⁓ do you know what? ⁓ well first of all, let's say for the mo more observant amongst our listeners, you've probably realised by now that it isn't in fact Mark. ⁓ well you're already on air, are we? Well, I record from the time that the stripe starts ringing. But ⁓ Yeah, no, it's not Mark, it's the usurper. I believe is my new title. It is The Usurper Richard. And if this continues, I suppose I'll have to at some point make a new intro. Yes. Yeah, because otherwise it'll just surprise people week after week. Yeah, it's just ridiculous. And the other thing is I wasn't planning on doing this episode today or even this weekend. It's just that as you inferred, I have in fact finished moving. And I find myself with extra time on my hands. I actually went to work to do some undertime this morning. Right. And I'm gonna send you a photo actually. I moved last Saturday and that was a week delayed because the guy who was here before, we'd arranged that I would move in the Saturday previously. But he was at a wedding in somewhere, Serbia, I don't know. Fair enough. And ⁓ he sent me a message saying look I might have sort of been a bit previous with saying that you could move in next Saturday because I don't think I'm gonna be finished moving out so I put it off an extra week and I was a bit worried because of the weather in Sweden in general but as it happens the snow held off but then ⁓ I went to work this morning and this is the view from where I parked my car. I sent it on your WhatsApp by the way. ⁓ right. Which I have the volume turned off. ⁓ bloody hell. Yeah. Full snow. Yeah. Bloody hell. That b Yeah, that's that that's the kind of snow that well it has to happen to a small village somewhere in England every winter. ⁓ Shit, sorry. I got pleased for me attack. I got a cat attack. I thought for a minute you were monitoring the local police on on on on radio. No, that was Neil Armstrong telling lies about setting foot on the moon. He jumped straight onto my soundboard, little fucker. ⁓ they're good at shit like that. That's what cats are for. I tell you once I came home, I don't know where I'd been, but I saw that I'd left my mixing desk on and the record button was lit. So I came over only to find that these fuckers had been podcasting for nine hours and eighteen minutes. I don't know what they were talking about, but awesome. No, no, no. I saw cats of four years ago at the borderline. We used to go home shit faced and play a thing called Dungeon Bowl. Mm-hmm. And it was a board game with little orcs and shit, and ⁓ but we bastardized it and turned it into a whole different game of our own. And it included the random cat factor. Yeah. You picked a cat, I had two. ⁓ you picked a section of the game board and you pick a piece of furniture. And if the cat sat on that piece of furniture, then that bit of the game board got nuclear wiped out, blasted into oblivion. And yeah, the random cat factor added an awful lot of fun to you know what was otherwise a fairly fucking stupid game, but being wanked and I assume it was a drinking game as well. No, because by that time, you we're talk we're playing at six in the morning. We've already Done a Thursday night in the borderline and were utterly shit faced by the time we got home, so the bong came out and then you know, we we played that for a couple of hours until we were finally knackered enough to go to sleep. You remember those days? Well, actually I don't remember those days, which means there were great days. Well yes. So What have you got for me this time then? I'm a bit more mentally prepared for you this time. ⁓ actually it's ⁓ it's kind of light hearted if you can call mass murder lighthearted. No, no, no, I can do lighthearted mass murder. That's ⁓ you know, there's there's something entertaining. Hollywood, you know, thrives on entertaining murder, does it not? As many a Yeah. And I'm surprised that Hollywood haven't got involved in this one, but it's not too late. And if you are gonna get involved I am gonna say TM right now. No, this ⁓ the chap we're gonna talk about today is ⁓ a guy called Pedro Rodriguez. He's a Brazilian and he ranks in the top five, if you can rank them, serial killers of all time, insofar as numbers are concerned. ⁓ never heard of him. No, most people haven't chupacabra, is he by any chance? He could be a chupacabra, he could be a tolper. You won't get everybody has either seen or heard of Dexter. Yes. And the you know, the premise behind Dexter is that he's a serial killer who only kills other serial killers. Yes. Which is a moral dilemma in itself. ⁓ absolutely. I watched the first episode and decided that I really couldn't waste all those hours trying to decide just how wrong this fucking TV programme was and on how many levels. They made they made it fucking watchable by having a a a sort of fairly attractive serial killer with a super hot sister with a potty mouth. ⁓ you see, I couldn't I because I watched Six Foot Under, I couldn't move on from the character in Six Foot Under. ⁓ it was she in that? No, he was. I've never seen Six Foot Under. Right. Now Dexter is the probably I almost say years ago, probably gay. insipid, pathetic son of undertakers. Right. And ⁓ I mean the first series was really good. The second one was alright. It did go downhill rapidly, but they still made six series out of it. But because I'd watched that, I I couldn't really quite cope with him as as Dexter or, you know, if this was his new job after his life fell apart in Six Foot Under and so I never really got into it. And I worked nights. Yeah, yeah. So I I guess he was already typecasting Yes, indeed. That's understandable. I mean, I've never watched an episode of House, and that's simply because I used to watch Fry and Laurie in the fucking seventies. Yeah, right. I c I I just can't have Stephen Fry with a fucking American accent playing a straight character. It's just not ⁓ yeah, no, it's the other one. Hugh Laurie. Exactly. Yeah, exactly my bad American accent. But I you know, I remember watching a few episodes here and there and basically it's the same premise every week. Somebody's got some strange disease. And then they hang on, hang on. I did ⁓ I did talk about this at work about two days ago and someone said it's always fucking lupus. Well that's possible. I don't remember, but they just keep trying everything until eventually they may or usually hit upon the the the fucking solution. But ⁓ I have discovered with ⁓ aging parents when my father had cancer that that is pretty much how medicine works. Yeah, it's still a it's still a roll of the dice. It's it's it derives from the seventeen hundreds where the doctor would generally say it's ghosts in the blood and you should do cocaine about it. Yes. Now then that would have been lovely, wouldn't it? Well I mean that actually happened. ⁓ did it? Okay. Yeah. That is that is a factual diagnosis for ninety percent of the population. ⁓ sweet. Unfortunately bloodletting then. Unfortunately medicine has gone downhill since then and it's really hard to get prescribed cocaine. Well, it used to be in Coca Cola, didn't it, Zah? Yeah, until they fucking found out it was fun. ⁓ yeah. Can you imagine now? Jack and Coke with proper Coca Cola. Well, it would cut out the middleman, 'cause I mean we absolutely we used to do Jack and Coke and Coke. Yeah, indeed. And then we could just do Jack and Coke. It would have put a few people out of From out of work. But it would also have meant that, you know, at least in the nineties and the noughties and the eighties in London, ⁓ you could go at the toilet and use it for what it was intended for. Yeah, and not not have to worry about snorting someone's feces up your snotter. I never understood the attraction of a toilet for that particular activity. I mean, I can't think of any worse venue than a dirty shitter in a nightclub inside. to actually breathe deeply through your nostrils. But there's also nothing more ridiculous than the door opening of a cubicle and going, right, lads, you're leaving now. Three of them and they stand there and look at you and go, why? Yes. What have I done? It's like, well, you know, I either you're doing something shameful that your girlfriend wouldn't want you to know wouldn't want to know about, or you're bit doing something totally illegal. Either way, you're leaving now. Also Anyway. Also, you didn't buy it from our bouncers. No. No, no, no. They already had a job. Yeah. You see, I was a b a better employer than that. ⁓ I know in your club it didn't happen, but in many clubs it didn't. The bouncer did the bouncing. The coat dealer did the dealing. And that way an extra man got a job and everybody got some money. Full employment. Absolutely. Anyway, this Brazilian dude. Okay, so we've digressed a little bit. ⁓ yeah, I warn you, I ⁓ af after the last one, which I I've still keeps popping into my bloody head. I decided I needed to tool up this week, so I've had a large shot of tequila and now I've got a glass of red wine with me. So ⁓ and I'm on the tea. You're on the tea. But it's a very nice mug. Yeah it's a boob mug. Yes. It was a present from the Idogon Titty mug, but you know. Well it was a present from one of my co-workers and she got it for my birthday. Lovely. She sussed you up fairly quickly then? Yes. Yes She's a good girl. ⁓ so Pedro Rodriguez. Right. ⁓ and we were talking about this Dexter thing and the grey areas. The idea of a serial killer killing serial killers is a sort of fairly justice-filled idea, but as I say, there are grey areas. Because what if the serial killer kills a serial killer who would have killed someone? Who would later become responsible for millions of people dying through some kind of chemical explosion or nuclear explosion, but he survived because his killer was killed by the serial killer. That's a fucking deep rabbit hole to be going down. But it has to be gone down. Because you can't you can't you can't justify a serial killer who kills serial killers. ⁓ no, no, you can't. No, no. You know, it's murder is murder. Saying that ⁓ yeah, but he's only killing serial killers. Yes. But that serial killer that he killed could have actually been performing a public service that you don't know about. Yeah, well indeed, yes. Anyway. Anyway inspired by. Doesn't matter if you're a serial killer who's killed serial killers, you're still killing people. ⁓ But we we do tend to forgive maybe not forgive, but we do tend to empathize more with murderers who kill people that we think deserve murdering. Of course you do, yes. You know, I mean if anybody murdered Boris Johnson, I'd buy the man a drink. I'd pat him on the back. I'd ⁓ have to work again. Absolutely not. God no. No, no, no, indeed. ⁓ you know, and the humans are good at this, aren't they? You know, this is why we have wars, ⁓ this is why we follow insane leaders until forty million people are fucking dead. You know, we find it very easy to justify the ⁓ killing as long as it's not our own. Yeah. I mean you know, but the Middle East is back to it again, you know, 'cause we did this as kids. I mean, Jesus fuck, you know, how many times has the Middle East gotta do the same shit over and over and over again? And then listening to, you know, every cunt on the T V justifying somebody or other's actions. There is no justification. They are both as bad as each other. ⁓ gotcha. And anyone who says any different is a fucking idiot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha. And and you know, this is shit that Fuck me, it was going on in the old testament, this shit. Yep. That's how long this bollocks has been going on for. So yeah, fuck me. Anyway, Pedro Rodriguez. Right, Pedro Rodriguez, he was born on the 17th of July nineteen fifty four. In a city called Santa Rico do Supacal. I I I'm guessing that last word I got completely wrong. I've I've no, I I don't speak Spanish, you're all right. In Brazil. he was a child of the floor. Yes, I wasn't gonna correct you. I've got a Portuguese girl at work who is lovely and I asked her about this chap and she's never heard of him, but that's because she's from Portugal and not Brazil, so that was very racist of me. Yeah, I don't think they have a lot to do with each other anymore. But Rodriguez his full name is Pedro Rodriguez Filhor. But Filho apparently means junior. So I'm guessing his father was also called Pedro. Rodriguez. Yes. ⁓ well hopefully. I mean it seems a shitty thing to call your kid junior when he doesn't even have the same name as you. Yeah. But he was born into an environment where temperatures are spectacular. Perfectly set for young criminals. As even before he was born, his father was abusive to his mother, regularly beating her. I mean, you're brought up in the Favelas, it's a a hand to mouth existence. You're living in a shack. Dude, I I have employed work with an awful lot Brazilians. And ⁓ yeah, late at night, some of the horror stories I've heard of And you know, you see the images of of where they live. Yeah, and how they live. I remember doing a an interview with with Malcolm Dome on on on rock radio, whatever it was. ⁓ me and some guy from a metal band from Brazil and Malcolm was saying to him, he said, You know, how come there's so many good metal bands coming out of South America? And this guy's English was a little bit iffy, he was like, ⁓ man, I dunno. So I said, Well, you know, there's three ways out at a barrio, isn't there? You either become a girly boy, a footballer, or a heavy metal star. It is in f it is a fact that like thirty I think Thirty per cent of Brazilians and it's a city of seven million, thirty percent of them live in favelas. Yes and ninety percent of their talent comes out of those favorers. Yeah, yeah. Artists, creatives, footballers, everything else comes from those backgrounds. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, no, okay. I get the background. Yeah, well even even as she was pregnant, Pedro's father would beat her senselessly and he beat her so severely that the unborn Pedro was left with a damaged skull. Shit. And although the extreme abusive behaviours never changed in his father, Junior continued to possess a strong sense of family loyalty and a form of parental care for his father. Man who abused not only him but his mother. Despite claiming to have murdered more individuals, Junior has been officially charged with 71 murders. Fuck. Alright, that's a good number, isn't it? I mean, even in cricketing terms, that's a good score. He got the hump at his sentencing because the judge said 71 and he went, fuck you, I did over a hundred. Yeah. You know, if you have, you're gonna brag about it. I mean that's a century. That's you know me and both them shit. That's a target. Gotcha. Now ten of these were committed before he turned eighteen years old. Wow, okay. His first murder was in fact committed in defence of his father. Right. His father used to work as a security guard at a high school kitchen. This is how fucking prevalent crime is. Concept is insane. I know, I mean that you have to guard the food for the children at the school. Fuck me. He was he was wrongfully accused by the deputy mayor of Alfinas of stealing food from the school of which he was supposed to guard. So he lost his job. And that job was the only source of income for the family. So he weren't gonna get another one in the neighbourhood with that smear, was he? Well no, and also if the deputy mayor has got it in for you, you're Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's fucked him. Yeah, he's fucked. You are fucked. I wonder which of the deputy mayor's friends got the job afterwards? Not a job to want, apparently, as we'll find out. ⁓ okay. Because in the face of this injustice, the little fourteen year old decided to take a shotgun and kill his father's accuser without remorse. Outside his house. The Deputy Mayor. The Deputy Mayor. ⁓ He shot him in the face. Go, Pedro. I mean, fuck me. Which is a likely result of a life modelled by paternal violence. Yeah, a and and you know, a frying pie s frying pan size dent in his skull from before he was born. I mean, fuck. Shortly afterwards, he then shot and killed the reported true thief. Right. And the causation beh behind his father's abrupt dismissal in an almost identical fashion to his first kill, quick and clean. Right. Now following the second killing, Junior decided to flee to Sao Paulo in an attempt to evade police capture. Which was quite easy because he's brought up in the favelos, nobody gives a fuck. Mm-hmm. If you're shooting each other there, I mean, even today the the police go round shooting fucking homeless kids in Brazil. You know, cleaning the streets. It's it's kind of accepted. Well d you know, ⁓ y you go shoot the deputy mayor in this country. The manhunt never stops. But over there, you know, cops don't even like the deputy mayor 'cause he's probably squeezing them and you know it's j it's just layers of corruption, isn't it? Everybody treading on everybody 'cause that's the only way of life they know. The deputy mayor's kickback is bigger than the police's kickback. More than likely. Well yes, of course it is. So his criminal life didn't end When he moved to this small town Moghi das Cruz in Sao Paulo, and he continued sort of burglarizing places, ⁓ just to feed himself and survive. I mean he's fourteen years old, he's alone in a strange place, and he needs to survive. But he came to the attention of a woman who ran a criminal gang. ⁓ her name was This is not ⁓ a Mills and Boone book you're reading here. ⁓ it it sort of goes that way. I mean suddenly there's romance in the air. Her her name was Maria Aparecida Olimpia. And she ran a criminal gang of like pit pockets, thieves, and I guess even assassins in those times. But ⁓ she took a liking to him because he was he was a smart, streetwise little thief, and he was good at what he did, you know. And she took more than a liking to him in fact and she took him as a lover. Of course she did. Now he was only fourteen, so th this is a little bit creepy, if you're so inclined. I mean, it is a little bit creepy. He was fourteen, she was a grown woman, so I guess it's a little bit creepy. Mm nah, see if the four year old was a he And the 14 year olds are she then it's bang out of order. But personally That's a man's point of view. Personally, I would never ever have had a problem with the I mean I lost my virginity at fifteen anyway to a fifteen year old. But you know, at the age of fourteen, my Welsh teacher used to be on her desk. Can I ask a question? Yeah. Was he gentle? Funny, funny. My Welsh teacher used to sit On the desk. I had one of those Miss Cineard. Right. With her legs spread. No panties. Mm-hmm. Right? Now, if she jumped my bones when I was 14, I would have had no problem or issue with it at all. But it would have still been abuse. Yeah, even in the eyes of the law, yeah. But you know, I I would have been a defense witness. Would you have waited for her? No. But tell you another interesting story about her and her because I doubt I doubt she listens to your podcast. She certainly doesn't pay me. Her and the ⁓ the R. E. teacher. I noticed 'cause my my cousin was a copper and he was moaning to my mother one day that it wasn't fair because he had to drive the cop van around while the other cop c cops used to gangbang my Welsh teacher and my R. E. teacher in the back of the cop van. ⁓ for fuck's sake. What is wrong with the world? And they wouldn't let him have a go. That that was his problem. That was what his issue. He had to drive, but they never let him have a go. Well, it's nice to know that your tax money goes to paying the wages of these ladies. ⁓ dude. Nineteen seventies in Wales, mate. Fuck me, they were wrong. I've got a question actually about Wales, and I'm pretty certain I'm right, but Katherine Zita Jones, she's Welsh, right? Yeah, she's from Swansea. Yes, that's what I think. Talking about it in our last episode, me and Mark. First of all, we couldn't remember her name. And then I said she was that Welsh chick from Darling Buds May. And then I said, ⁓ maybe she wasn't Welsh. I mean, I think Mark's dementia is rubbing off on me. You know, she is well. She's from Swansea. ⁓ That's why she embarrassed the whole country when she got an Oscar by standing up and shouting Oggy Oggy Oggy. ⁓ I know how bad. ⁓ I mean and what happened to that career? I mean she went from Darling Buds of May to Mrs. Michael Douglas. Yeah, she was Zorro, didn't she, with with ⁓ the what was his name? Banderas. ⁓ did she bang him as well? No, I don't know about that, but she did Zorro, two ⁓ Zorro movies with him. Yeah, but I mean a bunch of other stuff. But ⁓ I don't know, you know. Maybe she's just had the good sense to go, I have got billions in the bank and I don't need this shit anymore. I do remember I do remember when she actually married him. There there was ⁓ a big prenup thing and I think she was she was entitled to a million dollars a year that they stayed married if they ever divorced. Right. And in that I mean that was back in the eighties. I think they're still together though. They are still together. Yeah. I mean she's probably thinking, come on tw definitely twenty twenty million she's gonna get Yeah, but it's not enough now, is it? That wouldn't even buy you a beach house in Malibu. Insane, isn't it? Fuck me. Yeah, no, I know. She's gotta hang in there now for the for the long haul. My daughter comes home with homework, right? Maths homework that is now dealing in the number billions. Yeah. There was no such number. No, didn't fucking exist when we were kids. Just yeah. Fuck me. ⁓ anyway we are getting sidetracked big time. Back to ⁓ Pedro who's getting ⁓ we he's leaving the leading the perfect movie life a crime. He's fourteen, he's a criminal. And he's banging the boss. The boss. In the boss and an intelligent older lady. So he's making way to the top. He's sleeping his way to the top. ⁓ god, yeah, yeah, this is good. And one of the things that endeared him to her was the fact that she had a problem with this c drug dealer fellow. And Pedro said, it's a no problem because he was Italian. And ⁓ he in f he just basically target killed this drug dealer who resided in the same city. And I think at this point we should do this. And now a word from our sponsors. Because we've been talking for half an hour without getting anywhere. This reminds me of ⁓ Mark. Yeah, am I talking too much? No, no, it's fine. It's normally me who goes off on a tangent. We've been doing this for thirty odd fucking years, you and me, so yeah. It's hard to sort of stay on target. At least we're doing this without the added effect of any stimulants or narcotics. Indeed. But anyway, ⁓ this happened in the early seventies, which is basically the beginning Of the uprise of Brazilian drug and cartel activity with extreme violence being exchanged between drug traffickers and the police later in the eighties. So there is can I be marked for a minute? Yeah, sure. What year are we in now? Early seventies. Early seventies, yeah. Okay, cool. Now you've phoned me. Now this this whole thing may have resulted in lessened police interference with drug cartels because they were also scared of the relative violence, much like in Mexico, which sort of incentivized Junior to enact personal justice. But that's kind of speculation. Anyway, because he carried out this execution on behalf of his ⁓ abuser, let's say, ⁓ she basically moved him up the food chain and made him her second in command, which didn't sit too well with the guys who were already in the gang. Because this little fucking fourteen year old upstart has come from nowhere and all of a sudden he's their semi-boss. Yeah. Fourteen, still fourteen at this point, yeah. Well, when he met Maria, it seemed yeah. He might be fifteen. Right. Okay. But ⁓ a few of them decided they weren't gonna take it. So they hatched a little plan and what they did was they invited him onto a fishing trip. In t in one of the rivers in the I don't know, the Amazonian fucking forest. Fuck me, it's beginning. That's what I mean. It's got all the makings. No. Fuck me. You know the the the sultry older Latin woman, the the and I mean he's only killed what four people so far. Is I mean he's a he's a beginner. Yeah. He hasn't even wet his t he hasn't even wet his teeth or whatever it is you wet. Keep going. So they're walking through the jungle towards the river and they're getting deeper and deeper in the jungle. And Junior's thinking, hang on a minute, this is a little suspicious. They've got three guys walking behind me. They're letting me lead the way to the river. And everybody's strapped, because you are strapped if you're in this gang. Mm-hmm. So Pedro's fingering his gun. wondering whether he's Hansel or Gretel. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ and wondering what the fucking coup is, because nobody seems to have bought any fishing rods. So he's very suspicious and he can hear the guys whispering behind him and all of a sudden he hears a weapon cock. Quick as a flash, he turns around and he shoots dead two of them immediately. The third one, realising that this little bastard is a demon, turns and starts running for his life. But Junior shoots him twice in the back and kills the motherfucker. Good for Junior. Now Junior went back the rest of the gang knew what the plan was. And when Junior walked back in, they were fucking astonished. And when he told them what had gone down, the rumors started then that he was not only a fucking evil multi mass killer, but also invincible. He's John Wick. Yeah. This guy is a diamond. Yeah. Fuck yeah. And that that sort of legend grew up then and stuck with him because he he became harder and harder to kill and it was tried many times. So Maria Aprasida Olimpia, the Italian girl Yes Her and Pedro fell madly in love and they lived were living together happily when Junior asked her to marry him, which meant Olympia became his newly made fiance. But unfortunately, due to his murder of that particular drug dealer, this unfamiliar happiness was short lived and abruptly torn apart when a drug led gang got word of a fellow dealer's murder and outrage ensued. In retaliation work, that's the whole point of them, isn't it? That is the idea of gang. Outrage violence make some money. So yeah. So in retaliation, the gang decided to murder Olympia. Ooh. Okay. In order to assert their power and instill fear. But this was not really the right tactic to take with Junior. No. Murder Junior would have been the better plan, I think. Even if it was proving to be difficult, it's still the better plan. Olympia's murder was not only unjustified and pretty horrific as well, I have to say. The only thing it did to Junior was show him more ascertations of violence. Corrupting his psyche even further. And as a result of his beloved fiance's death, he went into an obsession of revenge. Tracking down before we move on to the revenge, what do they do to her then? I mean, it was this Sonny Carlione gul gunned down at a ⁓ toll booth or you know ⁓ no, they went to her house and they hacked her to pieces. Right, okay. But he ended up tracking down those who he believed to be the culprits of a Horrific murder and ended up going to a wedding which was organized by the guilty's gang leader, wherein which he, along with a few friends, committed mass murder, fatally shooting seven gang members and severely injuring sixteen other members in attendance. And this was what, 40 years before Game of Thrones. ⁓ yeah, it was the Red Wedding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is what I mean, it's his so godfather, it's insane. Now, not long after this mass murder, Junior became informed that his father, the man that he defended by killing the ⁓ vice mayor Yeah, where it all started had been sentenced to prison for murdering and dismembering his mother with a machete. Okay, you can see where the genetic line comes from then. Yeah, it seems to go from naught to two hundred and seventy in like s less than four seconds. Fuck. Okay, so yeah, poor mother. Jesus, what a life. Now, although he had a sense of family loyalty even towards his abusive father, he loved his mother unconditionally. Well yeah, of course, he's a Latino. And he'd had to endure the entirety of his childhood, not only suffering at the hands of his father, but also bearing witness to his mother's victimization by him regularly. See the sad thing is I I actually knew a kid. I I have a a a knife I use in my kitchen, which I took off him in a pub one night and lied to the police because he was only in town because he was in court the following day. I won't won't name him, but yeah, basically his dad was a publican. Mum and dad had a pub and bit by bit over the years his mother his father battered his mother to death and he was fucked up, so I can see where this kid's at, you know. I mean he's he's angry and does no right from wrong, does he? Well, his love for his mother trumped any form of paternal connection that he might have hung on to. And as he travelled to the prison his father was held with the pretense of visitation. I don't know how he quite managed it, but he got into the cell with his father. Now when when his father killed his mother he Hacked her with the machete twenty-two times. Fuck. So while he was in the cell with his father, he managed to stab him twenty-two times and then proceeded to carve his heart out. Much like his father had mutilated his mother. And he ate a chunk of it. I mean I can see how he got in there. I mean, money, bribery, the the prison's probably run by gangs anyway. So I mean what was that prison in is it Argentina? Where was it? A couple of weeks ago where the cops finally went in and basically shut it down 'cause it's been run by prisoners for years. They had a disco they actually had a disco tack in there. There was wives and children living in there. They were manufacturing drugs. Well they probably had they probably had more fucking supplies food wise than ⁓ God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking living it up and ⁓ finally the government decided no more. But yeah, no, look that one up. It's mental. Anyway, carry on. I don't know exactly how he managed to walk out of that prison, but I'm guessing that if you were a prison guard earning four dollars a week and one of your visitors comes out covered in blood with bits of his father's heart between his teeth, you're not gonna ask too many questions. Especially as somebody's giving you a brown envelope. So yeah, and inside the brown envelope is just a piece of paper saying, If you want to live, look the other way, bitch. Actually, yes, probably. Anyway, as time went by and Junior was now in charge of the gang, basically, they continued along their criminal activities and he continued to kill several other criminals following the murder of his father. But he was eventually apprehended by local police on the twenty fourth of may nineteen seventy-three. ⁓ where they arrested him and they put him in the back of a police van alongside two other criminals, one thief and one rapist. Now this was a bad mistake because Junior saw himself as a bit of a dexter, and he had a thing about rapists. Alright. So Because everybody's got a line. Yeah. Even I mean, mate, we've known some right nutty people, but everyone's got a line. absolutely. Sometimes you do it before you find out about it, but everybody's got one. Now, in true junior fashion, when the car reached the station and officers opened the doors, they were somewhat shocked to find that one of the detained had been murdered. On the way to station, he'd murdered the rapist he'd been sat beside because he was offended by the presence of the man himself being a rapist. Rapist, yeah. Well you know, I can understand that. And somehow It went unnoticed by the police officers manning the manning the vehicle. It's really one bit of less paperwork, isn't it? Because of the murders he'd committed by this time, which was in the thirties, I'm guessing. ⁓ there'sn't the I don't know exactly how many. But he was he was initially sentenced to one hundred and twenty-eight years behind bars. But what they'd actually done was put him into his elements. Because now he's surrounded by people that he doesn't like. And of course, almost on his first day in the prison, because of the legendary status of Junior, the word was out that whoever managed to kill him was gonna be a god in the prison. So Well I got one for you. ⁓ I was in Rome last week. We have a first holiday since twenty sixteen. ⁓ yeah. And ⁓ I'll have to look her up, but she ⁓ she created a poison that was odorless, tasteless, and left no marks on the body and used to sell it to women who wanted a divorce. That's probably a good thing. But ⁓ you know, you can do that one with Mark. I think Mark would kinda like her. I I think she might even be related, 'cause if you listen to this week's episode you'll find that and it's a shame that you were in Rome last week. Because apparently Up until Mark's grandfather or great grandfather on his father's side. That's right. He had a he had guest list with a Pope, didn't he? They lived in a palace in Rome, which is now the French embassy. Yes, that's right. I remember him talking about it. And it has an actual Michelangelo ceiling. Shit now. damn. And ⁓ you could have you could have had a visit to Mark's old pad, as it was. Yeah. I'll have to find out from him where it is 'cause I'm definitely going back to Rome. I haven't done half of it. We walked seventy miles in six days. ⁓ were you suitably disappointed at the f the Trevy fountain? yeah, I mean it was hardly the the I mean it's a fucking awesome fountain, but But it's fucking tiny. Like when I went to you know the Louvre and I saw the Mona Lisa. Yeah, I mean that is also ⁓ it's a It's just a psychological thing, you think what? And ⁓ you know, the Venus d the Venus de Milo. I mean, we were there early, we got in the room, there was nobody there, me and my mate. And I said, Well, you know, we've seen the front of her a million times. What's her ass look like? Exactly. So we nip round the back, nothing. ⁓ So I just at that point, about fifty Japanese tourists poured in and started taking pictures. So there's me and him in a Hawaiian shirt, either side of the Venus de Milo, cupping her ass cheeks and smiling. He fuck knows how many Japanese holiday photos. ⁓ good stuff. Anyway, back to bedroom. Yeah. So yeah, as I say, now they've put him in prison. He's in his element really because he's surrounded by people who want to kill him and he's quite happy to kill. He a he even had a tattoo saying, I love to kill, basically. But ⁓ yeah, basically on his first day he was approached in the prison yard by five guys. Three of whom he fatally stabbed and two of whom he seriously injured. Okay. So And so that was the first and last time that they tried to do him in prison. I was gonna say, ⁓ you know, again it's it's very plot of a movie, isn't it? But how else do you do it? You know, you if you're not top dog by the end of the first day you're dead. So Yeah. I'm the fucking daddy. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, during his ⁓ tenure in prison he went on to kill s many other people. Drug dealers, rapists, people who try ⁓ people who offended him just by being ugly. He he killed one of his cellmates simply because he didn't like his face. And that's where the Dexter thing falls down a bit. Mm-hmm. But ⁓ eventually he was sent back to court and his sentence was increased from one hundred and twenty eight years for the thirty odd or forty odd murders that he'd already committed, to four hundred years, 'cause now his total was up to at least seventy one. Okay. Yeah, and this is the point though, isn't it? I mean, an awful lot of those he killed in prison, they wouldn't even have been registered. No. That the guards wouldn't have bothered reporting it. No, some of them would have been more problem alive than they were worth. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, in many ways he's doing the guards in the prison a favour, isn't he? I mean, he's like their new Hoover. You know, there's shit all over the floor. He's just cleaning it up. Yeah. So yeah, so now he's sentenced to four hundred years and You would think like that's going to stop him. Well you would think that would be the end of the story. But I have to tell you that it isn't. Because in Brazil at that time, I don't know if it's still the case, but the maximum time you're allowed to spend in prison is thirty years. ⁓ okay. So you can be sentenced to two thousand eight hundred years, but you will only be able to serve thirty years. Right. Which seems a bit silly. Would allow Junior to eventually be freed. And I c probably around the age of what forty five, fifty twelve. I can remind you at this time, Junior was only nineteen years old. Yeah. So by the age of forty nine. So between the ages of fourteen and nineteen, he's done to death over a hundred people. Well, you know, youth, energy, all that spun. It's got to go somewhere, isn't it? Yeah. So his total of convicted murder stands at seventy-one, forty-seven of which took place in prison. So sixty-six percent of his murders occurred post-sentencing. The only the only factor that changed while he was incarcerated is the execution phase, because while he was outside he favoured the gun, but while he was inside he got used to the thrill that came with murder via blades. Yeah. A shiv's a lot easier to make than a cold nineteen eleven, isn't it? It certainly is. Yes. I mean I've never seen anybody sharpen a spoon into a you know, a replica ⁓ assault rifle. Yeah. Well, his story doesn't end there, as I say, because he was released on the twenty fourth of April in two thousand and seven. Ooh, culture shock, fuck me. Yeah. ⁓ he was rearrested. I do like your demonic eyes, by the way. You do? The reflection of your screen and your glasses. ⁓ right. And every so often it's just perfect and they take over from your pupils and you just sit there with demonic eyes. I'm flirting with you now. That's actually real life. It's not a reflection. But on the fifteenth of September two thousand eleven he was re arrested at his home in Camburio where he worked. Four years out, yeah. Yeah, he tried to go straight, but you know. That's never gonna happen, is it? I've read Papayawn, I know that you you can't do that shit. Not when you've been prison that long. That he was sentenced to a further eight years on charges such as riot and deprivation of liberty, which were offences that he'd actually committed while he was detained in Sao Paulo. Okay. But he was released For the final time for good behaviour on the tenth of December 2018 after serving seven years. Following his second release from prison in 2018. Fifty eight or whatever he is now, yeah. Yeah, after announcing himself to be retired from his self declared vigilantism as a youth and officially committed not to commit any more crime, he became a bit of a YouTube sensation. Seriously, he started his own YouTube channel called ⁓ Jesus, the world we live in. Yeah, I know. Called Pedrinho Ex Matador, which is little Pete ⁓ the killer, basically. Okay. ⁓ commenting on modern crimes, campaigning against gang violence, and teaching the public to not be so proud of criminal acts. And believe it or not, he had Over a hundred and fifty thousand subscribers. No, that doesn't surprise me. I'm I'm starting to rethink my marketing strategy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, execute Mark live on podcast. I mean, let's see what happens then. Yeah. I've had enough and I ain't gonna take any more. Well, unfortunately, at about ten AM on the fifth of March this year, Rodriguez was shot and killed by two men. firing from a car in Moghi das Cruzes, who then fled in another car, and no suspects have ever been arrested. Zorro, it's it's just all of those things all kind of intertwined. Because as you say ⁓ I mean a c man's killed over a hundred people, but I don't dislike him. Probably would if I met him. But if you were a relative of one of those hundred people Well, yeah. That's a lot of people who won't see you dead. Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ god, yeah, no, I mean his list of enemies. I mean, fuck me. It's it's you know, longer than your arm, isn't it? Yeah. And by this time, as you say, he's nearing sixty years old. So the youth of the the new criminal gangs are like thinking I'm gonna kill this old cunt. I'll be the I'll be the new invincible fucking matador. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, no, I mean I you know, I'm sure ⁓ and in fact I'm surprised that they weren't boasting on Facebook about it, all things considered. I think probably because they don't do a lot of internet. Well maybe not. are you sure? I'm sure they all have a bleeding mobile phone, mate. ⁓ absolutely. Fuck yeah. Did you know, just as a matter of interest, ⁓ I don't know if it's true in England, but in Sweden now, you cannot buy a burner phone anymore. Can you not? No. If you buy ⁓ a pay as you go mobile phone, it has to be connected to your bank account. ⁓ right. No, you can still buy them here. You can buy them in Amazon, you can buy ⁓ in in ⁓ Virgin. I I've bought one recently for my daughter, she was going on her first school week away thing. and you know. Other kids have got smartphones 'cause like you know, you're ten, you need a smartphone. Yeah, of course. Obviously, you're gonna find your pedophile. Well, absolutely. ⁓ anyway, I bought it, so yeah, no, didn't have to register in any way, shape, or form. But ⁓ turned out they weren't allowed to take phones with them anyway. ⁓ she never used it. So I have one. I don't need one myself because obviously I'm not a criminal, clearly. Yes. They they don't vo ⁓ you know, when you go into the Vodafone shop, they don't actually call them burner phones. No, I know, because that infers that you're gonna Well, I think it is purposes. Do you sell burner phones? I said I I apologize for my terminology, but I only know about them from the wire. Yeah. And you know I have no idea what I just said, but do you got one? Clearly, you know, i this this guy was like, you know, he's he works in photophone shops, so he's a geek. He plays video games and butches box sets, is what his life's about. So yeah, he had no problem with it at all. 'Cause They are absolutely legal in this country, yeah. Yeah. It seems ⁓ it seems just another f freedom eroded by the Swedish government to me. You want me to buy a load and ship them to you. yeah, but if I try to advertise them for sale, the the secret police will come on top of me. ⁓ just just, you know, doing the canteen at work. But the thing is they'd have to be pre loaded with cash. Because you can't charge them without a specific bank account being linked to them. Okay. All right, yeah, I you know. I'll look into it. I mean there is a there is a gap in the market. I mean it's hardly the first criminal venture I've I've plotted and thought about. Sometimes it's a good mental exercise even if you don't carry it out. I'd like to just point out that none of these enterprises have ever been carried out. The first one I was given, I was what, eighteen and some guy worked for a security corps or whatever it was and where where I was living in Wales on on New Year's Day or they used to day after they used to take all the money from the pubs and it was a forty minute Rajo blackout as they went over Cadaridris. And this guy was like, you know, ⁓ yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was like You know, he was talking about a team of like six of us, and then it turned out he was only talking about twenty five grand. And I'm like, Well, that's not five grand each, is it, you fucker? Even in the eighties it wasn't worth going to prison for five grand. No, and you would have got thirty years as ⁓ fuck yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So it was like, No, thank you very much. Go and find somebody far more stupid than us, because we're not doing that. ⁓ yeah, no, I mean I I I bizarrely enough, got offered ⁓ work as a getaway driver in Liverpool twice. Was it was it a steal your own car or was the ride behind? Well I I I had an inadvertent audition ⁓ audition. I did not realize that I was being auditioned. They made me follow this fucking cop car until the cop car got suspicious. I mean I was dumb, I was eighteen, I grew up in fucking Wales. I didn't know what was going on. And then they said to me that you better lose this cop car now then. So I I lost the cop car. you know, he wasn't that interested, but ⁓ but they offered me work and ⁓ I'm like, No, thank you very much. It's it's you know, quite flattering to be asked, but A, I don't know Liverpool well enough, and B, No, I d I I don't wanna go to prison at eighteen, thank you very much. Yeah, and C, what happened to your last getaway driver? Yeah, and you know, if they needed a Patsy, who's that gonna be? Yeah. ⁓ it was him, the k the kid, it was his fucking idea officer. Yeah, yeah. He made us do it. Yeah, absolutely, because you know, eight year old boys from Wales regularly make fucking three hardened criminals from Liverpool do whatever he wants. Yeah. But yeah, I mean it was quite it was quite flattering to be asked, it has to be sad, but that was about as far as I wanted to dip my toe into that particular ocean. I can imagine. Fucking cats pressed all sorts of buttons on the mixing desk, yeah. Kinda why I like being a bartender, mate. You know, I was allowed to be on the peripheries of an awful lot of shenanigans, but I never really had to be embroiled in any of it, thankfully. Yeah, you I can imagine it's nice hearing all the best laid plans and then hearing about the outcome of them as well. ⁓ absolutely, yes. And thinking, thank fuck, I never got involved in that. Fuck up. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ no, I mean, you know, I was asked but many times to provide alibis. And it it was like, well, yeah. I I can sort off. It's a bar, it's full of people. I can say maybe you were here, but yeah, I ain't swearing to any shit, mate. No. Absolutely not. It's horrible when you're asked to do that kind of favour. The best one, though. You'll probably remember the gentleman concerned. He'd been done coming from Jamaica with tins of cheese. I I remember it very well. I remember his fucking girlfriend at the time. What a Pain in the ass she was. ⁓ now then, which one? I can't remember her name, but she was a lunatic she came into Crazy Jane. Yes. It was Crazy Jane. ⁓ god, yeah. She was the first first customer I had in the crowbar. We opened the doors, half an hour later, in walks Crazy fucking Jane. I used to groan whenever she walked into a barber. ⁓ god, she was insane. Remember her telling me one night that the reason that they love flying kites in China is because eating rice gives you lots of wind. ⁓ yeah, that sounds exactly like her. ⁓ yeah. No, she was batshit. And it was her and then she she kept talking about her friend and I suspect it was imaginary. ⁓ but she had this friend I never met called Loopy Lou. So it was like Crazy Jane of fucking Loopy Lou and it was ⁓ she was batshit, mate. Bad shit. I remember one night I was in garlic and shots and it was shortly after the alleged offender had committed his alleged offence. And she came in and she was like shouting and screaming about all you fucking so called gangsters and fucking and I I need to raise money to get so and so out on bail. So I mean, we were all a bit fuck off like I saw you about half an hour after that. Yeah, but one one chap who was with us Russell, ⁓ I felt sorry for him. He he pulled a twenty pound note out of his pocket and gave it to her and s and she went, Well at least now I can afford to have a fucking drink. ⁓ God, yeah. But anyway, that gentleman in question he came to me and he said, Would you ⁓ be a witness for the defence? And I said, Well, how can I help? And he said, Well, if you go to court and say, Your Honor, Bleep, only does cocaine, I've never seen him smoke a spliff, that would help a lot. ⁓ for anybody who doesn't understand, people used to to import ⁓ tins of Jamaican cheese, but they used to substitute the cheese for weed. It was a method of smuggling back in the nineties. I say have you spoken to your solicitor about this? I think perhaps you should run this pastoral barrister before I agree to stand in court and say that, because I don't think it's gonna help a lot. I I ⁓ it's not the most helpful character reference that you could come up with. Well he's the only fucker I ever knew, right? Went into prison for eighteen months and came out fatter. Yeah, but I mean that was He got a job in the kitchen within a week. Well, they were hoping that he'd spike the food, no doubt. No. How did anybody else ever understand anything he ever said? Yeah, I know. I wish I'd kept that answer phone message that he left for me one time. Fucking classic. god, I could have I can hear it in my head now. It was mental. I'd I'd it was in the days of answer phones because we didn't have mobiles. And I got home and there was like these messages on my answer phone, so I pressed play and I listened to a couple and then this one came up and it went, Andy, hmm be there. And that was all I could fucking decipher. I went to a party, ⁓ I don't know, a few years ago now pre COVID. It was a an afternoon garden party, ⁓ by a chap from the you know the old crew. And it was his daughter's sixth birthday. There's a bounty castle and all the rest of it. But there was also all the usual gubbins going on. And he was there. And ⁓ I started talking to him and I I somebody told me that he'd had a heart con condition, so he'd had to give up everything. He'd he didn't drink, he didn't n no partying at all anymore. So I thought, fuck, pow, nice to see you. Finally, I'll understand something you say. But nope. A fucking hour. Right? And I realised that it had nothing to do with the gak or the booze or anything. No. Smorty sounded like straight. It was you know, it was it was one of those only fools and horses moments, you know, it was like a trigger moment. It was just like for fuck's sake. Twenty years and I thought it was only 'cause you were wasted. No. Well, that was just the way he was. Anyway, we mustn't denigrate the poor man's character. No, I've got no. He's still very active on Facebook. I've still got him I still follow his antics on Facebook. Okay. No. He's forever backwards and forwards. ⁓ back in twenty one, ⁓ I lost my Facebook because I used the word raffle. And it turns out that raffles are gambling in America. ⁓ so they shut down a crowbar's Facebook and then I ⁓ had vague access through mine, but what I I fuck knows what happened, but anyway, they they blocked me from my own personal Facebook page as well. And to be honest with you, it's the most liberating thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah, I must admit I'm not a big fan of social media. It's a necessary evil in the podcasting world. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I haven't got anything to sell at the moment. I'm not pimping myself, so quite frankly, I d I really do not miss it because you know, I've lost a lot of friends because I'm not on there. A lot of you know, friends and acquaintances because nobody fucking texts or replies to WhatsApp anymore. Yeah, I I I do the bare minimum. I I don't miss the vitriol and then snideness and the But that's the problem, isn't it? If you don't like someone's picture quick enough, you're a fucking enemy for some reason. ⁓ it's ridiculous. The whole thing is so fake. Because when you go on social media Y you become this kind of hyper version of yourself in your own head. You become I don't know, half of them think they're warriors for fucking truth and justice and and you know. And then you've got people like my mother and her mates who think that it's perfectly okay and my mother's friend, God bless her, she's dead now, but she calls mayhem because her granddaughter put up a picture of herself in her what they call it, grad not graduation gown when they leave school now and they do the a problem dress. Fucking thing. Anyway, she put it up, she said, Look, you know, I fit it, I've lost two stone and her grandmother's response was, About time you've been a fat cow for years. And just just you know, didn't get the mayhem that she caused by saying this on fucking social media. I mean that that is a war. ⁓ god, it was yeah, yeah, yeah. This Margaret's been dead for ten years and I suspect there's still people in her family who don't talk to each other anymore because of that. Or her. Or her. ⁓ yeah, well. I mean she got kicked out of hospital because she informed some black doctor that her dad didn't die in the war beating Hitler so that she had to put up with the black man touching her. ⁓ different generations. ⁓ man, yeah, fuck me, thank God, you know. The sooner they're all gone the better. Jesus. I dunno, I like some old people. I am one nearly. Well i yeah, but I don't feel old in the way they were old. No, but I mean that is the whole thing about different generations. I mean I still wear jeans for fuck's sake. My dad got out of jeans and into a three piece suit by the time he was nineteen, probably. ⁓ god, yeah. We've probably never had jeans. I mean when I when ⁓ we used to go to a pub with my old man, all the grown ups were wearing suits. Yeah, yeah. I remember there was a photo. There was my grandmother, two of her sisters, my grandfather and and the husbands of the sisters. And they're in Hyde Park, Victoria Park, somewhere in London, 'cause they all lived in London. They all, you know, moved down there in I don't know, probably the twenties and were there through the wall. And you can see it's a scorching odd day. And the women are wearing little strap dresses, yeah, you know, appropriate, basically the same patterns that Kath Kidson robbed. And made an entire fucking fortune out of. But the three blokes, they stood there, and I know that underneath the wool jacket, the wool trousers, the wool waistcoat, the shirt, the tie, they're also wearing a string vest. Minimum a string vest and long johns. My grandfather wore long johns three six five every day of the year. I have to say that ⁓ most guys in Sweden also do that. Yeah, but it's slightly I've still resisted that I just can't. No, good, no, no, no. I can't do long journeys. Even pink ones with a flap, man. No. No. The back flap is quite appealing. You've got a a moonshine still out the back and a shotgun, haven't you? The back flap is appealing, but also I wouldn't trust that the flap was adequately out of the line of sight during the crucial drop zone. ⁓ indeed. No, no, long journeys are no no. Absolute fucking no no. No, I'd I'd rather get frostbite. Anyway, this brings us to the end of our little Patreon special about little Pete or the kid. ⁓ seriously. Is that only an hour and nine minutes? Yeah. ⁓ yeah, I felt I I thought we'd been chatting for a lot longer than that. No, no, no. I mean it was it was a little it was only a little shorty. That was good though. I like that. But it's a it's a nice story. Yeah, Pedro Rodriguez. I mean you know, ⁓ yes You know, you can go back to the the moral dilemma we started with, but sorry, that was entertaining. Not for the victims' families, obviously, but for me that was entertaining. That's the main thing. ⁓ it's it's it's you know, humanity. I mean, you know, I I never liked ⁓ one of those T V programmes where they used to send in the video clips of people falling over. ⁓ yeah, I never got into that. Shaming people for just being to cut it before you saw them writhing on the ground in agony, but you know that they're in agony and they've you know they've cracked a bone and this is not funny. No, that never amused me, but Pedro Rodriguez is John Wick, isn't he? You know, it's it's just kinda you I saw that as a Hollywood movie and it was entertaining and funny. Yeah. And yeah, you know, in some ways it was like you know. Nobody that mattered got hurt. I know that's a shit thing to say, but you know, when there's eight billion of you, none of us matter, so Exactly. Anyway, lovely. Thank you very much for inviting me on again. That was delightful. Yeah, and I hope our patrons enjoy it. And I hope we get many more patrons who can enjoy it at a later date. So in the meantime, back to normal business and me and Mark will be recording tomorrow morning for our next episode. I'm a busy guy these days.