Andy: Morning everyone, I'm Andy.

Mark: Good morning, I'm Mark.

Andy: Now, yesterday I was recording with Richard and he had something to say.

Mark: Yes. about me.

Andy: Well, no, about me, in fact. ⁓ One of his friends that he recommended us to had a listen and she was a little bit taken aback and slightly offended.

Mark: ⁓ really?

Andy: by my cup.

Mark: I'm not surprised.

Andy: Now, I don't know how I feel about this because it was a gift from Amanda for my 60th birthday.

Mark: Which one's Amanda? One of your work colleagues? Yeah.

Andy: Yeah. And it was given in the spirit in which it was received. So, well, I mean, it was given by a young woman to a pervy old man, I suppose, but, obviously not really a pervy old man, but, you know, it was a fun gift and I've been, I mean, it's been my go-to cup ever since. now I'm

Mark: I know what that means.

Andy: questioning myself.

Mark: You should be, that's good, that's healthy Andy.

Andy: Yeah, but I don't want, I don't want to, what if someone fucking writes in and says, ⁓ I don't like that pink t-shirt. Do I then have to stop wearing pink because it's a lady color?

Mark: Er... not really, no. I don't think the colour scheme of what you're wearing is likely... and to be honest, it's not a matter of offending people. I have no particular objection to offending people unless it's intentional, which is obviously not good. But ⁓ one has to be conscious of the world we live in these days.

Andy: But I'm not intending to offend anyone with my speech. Okay, well I'll tell you what, I mean, I am open.

Mark: No, but you can easily understand

Andy: I do understand. I don't want to alienate people, but I don't want to alienate people. But at the same time, I don't want to bend to the iron will of woke PC-ness. So what I propose, what I propose is I will put it out to tender. And if people want to write in strange stuff, at gmail.com and say yay or nay to the teacup. If the nays win.

Mark: persuasion. You know... Yes.

Andy: I will replace the teacup and I might, I might even send it to one of our listeners, properly cleaned and sanitized ⁓ as a reminder of the good old days when I could drink out of my teacup with no problem.

Mark: Yes. That's a good idea. But what's more relevant, Andy, is are you willing to reconsider your stone age attitudes to women?

Andy: Absolutely not. That's a bridge too far. What's the point of our podcast if one of us at least is not controversial?

Mark: Exactly, that's what I thought. You're right. Well, what I think you could do is you could write to Amanda and you could ask her if she's got a similar cut with lots of little different willies on it.

Andy: Well, I did suggest Richard, it might be better if I had a cup with a or in fact a cup in the shape of a penis what I sipped from the Japai.

Mark: You

Andy: Who would be offended by that?

Mark: No, but it's an interesting point. It's certainly valid. I mean, we've never lived in the skin of a woman, so we don't have any idea. I mean, we're white, heterosexual men. What? I missed that. What?

Andy: I damn hard to climb inside the skin of a woman. I've tried damn hard to climb inside the skin of a woman.

Mark: Exactly. Without much success, I might add, in the recent years. You were only as good as your last trade, Andy, and your last trade was about five years ago, I'm afraid.

Andy: ⁓ no, pretty fucking successful, but... You know nothing of my personal life.

Mark: No, but you're absolutely right. And hopefully I'm here to add a little bit more balance to the conversation. I mean, I honestly don't believe you are a misogynist. It's just you're so stupid sometimes that you don't understand what you're saying. The fact that we designated two episodes to the Manosphere...

Andy: Well... Well, I mean, you know, let's show that I am in touch with my feminine side.

Mark: which You don't have a feminine side.

Andy: I'm wearing pink for fuck's sake. course it does.

Mark: That doesn't mean anything. ⁓ so I'm wearing predominantly blue. So I'm the stereotypical male now.

Andy: Yeah, I see. Yeah, you'll be the one throwing your action man out of the pram. I'll be the one perming me dolly's hair.

Mark: you ⁓ dear. Well, well done for Richard's friend to actually speak up and express her irritation and annoyance at you demeaning women down to the shape of their breasts.

Andy: I don't think she was annoyed. I don't think she was screaming and hurling stuff. But it was interesting because she obviously watched us on YouTube. And I did suggest that perhaps listen to us on Spotify. Then you don't have to witness me putting the boobies to my lips.

Mark: She felt sorry for you. No. ⁓ and then she doesn't have to witness the mug. No. Anyway, good on her. Well done.

Andy: Anyway, I'm taking positive action. It's up to you, the listeners and the viewers. It's up to you. If you have an opinion or if you just want to be a twat and...

Mark: What an idiot! That's a Trumpism if ever there was one. And we're allowed to mention his name this week.

Andy: Okay. Now he's gone nuts again. He's claiming to have a ceasefire. I wonder how much that cost him.

Mark: It's. The thing is that, I what are they talking about a ceasefire? Pakistan organised a ceasefire that definitely includes Lebanon, as evidenced by the speech that the Pakistani fellow made, and Israel just blatantly ignore it.

Andy: Yeah, because Israel do not want to ceasefire. Thank you very much.

Mark: Of course they don't. Know that they want the war to carry on and as long as Trump is on their side, why not?

Andy: And also I still don't believe that Iran are actually talking to America. They're shooting down their airplanes with their rocks and slingshots.

Mark: No, you're probably right. It's just all nonsense. But I think it's worth pointing out, of course, that, you know, just as Pam Bondi has gone replaced by someone even worse, someone who literally has his head buried in Trump's crutch, we've got this JD Vance fellow. If Trump goes within term, then JD Vance takes over. He is in Hungary at the moment, actively supporting Urban. in re-election and in his speech he was actually criticising the EU with interfering in other people's elections. He's JD Vance, the American Vice President in Hungary. Rich is not the word.

Andy: Uh-uh. That's a bit rich. But ⁓ talking of the EU, one of Trump's rants this morning was about how he's got to decide how to punish NATO for not running to his playground battle. And he suffixed it by, remember Greenland.

Mark: Well, he started talking about Greenland. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Now I mean...

Andy: Yeah, I'll tell you what, if he declares war on Europe, that will be hilarious.

Mark: It won't be. Price of petrol will go up. You and I will suffer.

Andy: Look, I don't buy petrol. We're already suffering because of this fucking lunatic. The price of everything is going up because for some reason, Iran provides everything in the supermarkets as well. So let's get the price rises going. This is just such another scam. It's a scam. It's like we're led to believe that the world's whole production is on a day to day basis and if production is interrupted or fucked for like a day, prices have to rise right now. We can't cope with supply and demand. It's such a box.

Mark: No, that is, that unfortunately, I mean that is an economic reality as a result of globalization. The price of petrol at the petrol pump is not determined by where they bought the petrol. The price in the petrol pump is determined by what the markets determine.

Andy: No, he's disturbing by the fucking government. Well, also what the government had prepared to fucking tax. It could come down quite substantially. Do know, in Iran, ⁓ before this Iranian excursion, they were selling oil for 47 bucks a barrel. Now it's 150 or something. Well, it's over 100.

Mark: Well, yes. And in fact, good on to... and now it's a hundred and ten, a hundred and five? No, no, it's not, it's a hundred and five or something like that. And no, you're, of course you're absolutely right.

Andy: So all Trump has done is like blow up some citizens and schools and doubled the wealth of Iran. Well done, wanker.

Mark: The other blatant hypocrisy and totally insane situation is that Trump is going to impose sanctions on any country who provides Iran with support or weaponry. Who is Iran's biggest supporter?

Andy: ⁓ America. ⁓ yeah, well good luck with that.

Mark: Russia, Putin, and which is the only country in the world that doesn't have sanctions from the US.

Andy: Russia

Mark: Correct.

Andy: Yeah, but he talks a good fight, but he won't fuck with Putin.

Mark: He doesn't, no, that precisely the point.

Andy: He won't fuck with Putin because Putin will fuck him back. And he knows that. And Putin will live stream him fucking Trump live on fucking Facebook.

Mark: Big time. Big time. Yes. Yeah. No, you're right. It's the thing is that I'll tell you what I feel is, as I've always said, it was started off as entertainment Trump, it gave us a talking point. But honestly, the weight of insanity in every news item is just getting a bit too much to cope with. And I'm, you know, as both of us are, we're in our 60s.

Andy: In his first turn, yes.

Mark: We don't have to worry about providing for our family or safety for our children. mean, you know, we're past that. But just think if you were 30 years younger.

Andy: Early 50s really. I'm early 50s, more than 60s.

Mark: You know, level of anxiety that all of this causes, completely unwarranted.

Andy: Just to tease a fucking senile old man's flagging penis. That's all it is.

Mark: I think it's long, long past teasing anything in that regard.

Andy: They haven't made, they haven't made girls young enough to tease Donald Trump these days.

Mark: But you know... No, no. But it's still surprising the, I know you don't listen to much LBC, but the American correspondent whose name escapes me at the moment for LBC, he's a very well-informed individual. And he was talking about the level of support that Trump has, not necessarily just in the Republican Party, for his action in Iran.

Andy: in America. Yeah, of course, because they're fucking, they're fed a completely different story than we are. They just see Brad Pitt advancing and planting the American flag. That's all they see.

Mark: In America, sorry, yes, in America. I mean, clearly. No, they do, literally. mean, thing is that they're, don't, well, petrol prices have gone up in the States. The killer is things like fertilizer prices.

Andy: Yes. But it has been, they've been told this is a temporary, temporary measure. It's never temporary. It's never temporary. If you were paying 50 cents a gallon before the war and you're paying a dollar 20 now, it might go down to 80 cents a gallon when it's all said and done, but you will never see that 50 cents again.

Mark: Yes. No. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if they still have gallons in America, or are they to litres?

Andy: They do. No, no, no, no, they will never go metric. They will start a war before they do that.

Mark: So it's US gallon. Yeah. No, you're right.

Andy: talking of which I came across by accident a film yesterday on Amazon Prime.

Mark: I don't watch it. I refuse to.

Andy: No, but it was called Canadian bacon and it was from 1995.

Mark: It's about ice hockey.

Andy: Kind of, but not really. It's about the American president needing to start a war to kickstart the defense spending. And they decide on Canada. Yeah, it's a comedy. John Candy and all sorts of other famous faces. Yeah, I know. Lots of other famous faces. But it's so...

Mark: ⁓ ⁓ to attack, really? Yeah. John Candy, there's a name from the past.

Andy: I mean, it's almost a fucking prophecy film.

Mark: Well, it's probably where they got their ⁓ idea from. for the whole escapade. ⁓

Andy: I haven't finished watching it, it's kind of amusing, but it's dated.

Mark: What do you mean you haven't finished watching it?

Andy: I started watching it but then I went to bed.

Mark: What? You can watch half a movie?

Andy: Yeah, because believe it or not, when I wake up in the morning, I still remember the first half.

Mark: I don't do that. I plan ahead. If I know a movie is an hour and a half long, I don't start it at 10 o'clock knowing I'm going to go to bed in half an hour.

Andy: Why not? I might not have planned to only watch 40 minutes, but I probably sat there watching it and found myself nodding off and thought, well, this is pointless. I can either fall asleep in front of it or stop it here and resume it tomorrow.

Mark: I'll tell you, know, joking apart what you were talking about. I wouldn't remember what happened in the first half. What I find mildly amusing, slightly worrying is the number of series that I start watching. And I think, ⁓ that's quite good. I'm looking forward to the next episode. And if it's on something like HBO, which I do subscribe to, but I don't look at very often, you know, I click on HBO a month later and suddenly discover a series that I started watching and forgot to get. I to continue on.

Andy: I on the plus side of that, if it's a really good series and you start again, you don't remember any of it. It's like watching it for the first time. So bring on this dementia, that's all I say.

Mark: You could start again. You could start again. Exactly. Well, it was like that film that annoyed me so much the other day or initiated a response. The Reporters Civil War. Yes, you're right.

Andy: My camera keeps zooming into the titty cup now for some reason.

Mark: It was 20 minutes into that movie before I realised that I'd seen it before and it must have been only four or five years ago that I saw that movie. Anyway.

Andy: Four or five years is a lifetime now when it comes to memory.

Mark: Well, it could be our lifetime as well, actually, four or five years. Have you thought about dying much recently?

Andy: Yeah. Yes, well before we get much older Before we get much older, I want to cut short our conversation because I think it's quite a lengthy episode this morning.

Mark: Why? Well, I've got the laundry on. I'll tell you how long you've got.

Andy: I care not for your laundry. Neither does our listeners.

Mark: I you don't, but you should do. ⁓ no, it's on my watch. You've got one hour and 35 minutes and then I'm cutting it off because I want to get the laundry out of the machine before it starts to crease.

Andy: Can't nanny do it?

Mark: NAN is not around this week.

Andy: She's off being flighty somewhere, she?

Mark: What's flighty? The very world that you live in, seriously. All right, well, come on then. Give us a teaser. What is this about?

Andy: Well, it's a good segue talking about Trump. Not really. But because it was Easter, I thought we should have done something Easter appropriate. And I was looking into the history and the life of Pontius Pilate, who is responsible for sentencing the carpenter to death, as it were.

Mark: We weren't. This is a bit biblical, really. Am I going to have to get out my Bible for dummies to fact check you as you're going along?

Andy: You can't fact check the Bible and that's a fact. ⁓ But funny you should mention the Bible because I segued in my research and I thought, fucking, there's so many contradictory stories. said, who actually wrote the fucking Bible? So I went down that rabbit hole. We're going to talk today about the origins of the Bible.

Mark: You It's a very interesting subject actually. Very interesting. Bearing in mind... Alright, how many... How many Christians are there in the world?

Andy: In that case, I'm going back to Pontius Pilate. Because if you're going to enjoy it, you can fuck off. quite a few millions.

Mark: No, I think it's into billions. I think there's a couple of billion Christians in the world and the vast majority of them, I would say nearly all Christians, base their religion on the Bible.

Andy: Well, as you'll find out, the Bible is made up of lots of different bits and pieces from lots of different religions.

Mark: Well, of course you've got the Turan and is it not the Torah? Turan? That's a type of car. Torah. I think that's the Old Testament is basically the Torah, isn't it? Isn't that the Jewish scripts?

Andy: Tora. Can we not get ahead of ourselves in the first paragraph of my fucking script?

Mark: No I'm just trying to I'm just trying to impress the audience with my knowledge of religious studies.

Andy: anyone impressed out there please send an SMS to Mark at 070

Mark: No. Alright, come on then. Well, what are the origins of the Bible? But it is a subject I'm interested in, so you might be ready yourself for interruptions.

Andy: Okay, well, though believers say it was the prophet Moses, Paul the apostle and God himself, who were the main authors who wrote the Bible, the historical evidence is more complicated. Given its immense reach and its historical influence, it is a bit surprising how little we actually know about the Bible's origins. In fact,

Mark: Old Testament.

Andy: There are only scattered answers to the fascinating questions of who wrote the Bible and when. Wikimedia at this point in my research showed me a picture of Paul.

Mark: Paul as in the Apostle.

Andy: Yeah, the Paul the Apostle writing his epistles. Now experts aren't completely without answers. Some books of the Bible were written in the clear light of history and their authorship isn't particularly controversial. But other books can be related, reliably dated to a given period, either by historical context clues, sort of the way no books written in the 1700s mentioned airplanes, for instance, and by their literary style, which develops over time. Now, religious doctrine, meanwhile, holds that God himself is the author or at least the inspiration for the entirety of the Bible, which was transcribed by a series of humble vessels. Now, while the Pentatour, the Old Testament, is credited to Moses and 13 of the New Testament's books are attributed to Paul the Apostle, the full story of who wrote the Bible is a bit more complex. So indeed, when you are digging into the actual historical evidence regarding who wrote it, the story becomes longer and more complex than religious traditions let on. The origins of the Bible. The Old Testament, who wrote it and when? Oh, God, losing me teleprompter. The Bible's origins were not a specific moment in time, but rather a long process that spanned more than a millennium from around 1200 before Brian to 100 after Brian. In short, there's no simple answer to the question of when the Bible was written. Its earlier texts rose from oral traditions within Hebrew communities, reflecting their experiences as nomadic tribes and slaves in Egypt, and eventually a settled nation in Canaan.

Mark: Can I ask a question? Has anybody ever done any research on the accuracy of word of mouth storytelling through generations?

Andy: You can do it in the same room with five different people. It's called Chinese whispers.

Mark: Well, no, we used to call... Yeah, Chinese whispers, exactly.

Andy: There is no accuracy at all. It's like throwing a dart from England and hoping to hit Trump's asshole in the US. It's not going to happen.

Mark: No, but I wonder if any literary scholars or biblical scholars have actually analyzed sort of historical events that initiated a tree of people reporting on it and how different branches of the tree ended up with different stories based on the original action.

Andy: Well, bear in mind we're still... In lots of places all over the world, people are still searching for evidence of the Ark. They're still searching for evidence of the Ark of the Covenant, the Chalice, the Holy Grail. So there is a hunt for evidence going on. But, you know, it's one of those things that just hasn't happened yet.

Mark: Alright, so let me just summarise so far. The Old Testament was written over about thousand years, 1200 to 200... what?

Andy: I don't. By God.

Mark: Yeah, no not written by God but inspired by God through his minions in on earth Moses being one of them

Andy: on Pooly Apostle.

Mark: No, Paul the Apostle is not the Old Testament.

Andy: Yeah, yeah, sorry. I'm getting ahead of myself now.

Mark: You are getting ahead of yourself. All right. So that bit is sort of, yes, I've got that bit.

Andy: OK, well the Hebrew Bible or the Tanakh, no the Tanakh is the Hebrew Bible.

Mark: Is that the Torah? So which one do the Jews have?

Andy: Well, hang on. It's developed into three main sections. The first being the Torah. Second, the prophets and then the writings. The Torah is basically the five books of Moses. And it likely reached its final form during or after the Babylonian exile in the sixth century. Although it incorporates much older material. The prophets section.

Mark: Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Andy: includes both historical narratives and prophetic literature spanning several centuries, and the writings contains the diverse material, like Psalms, Proverbs and later works such as Daniel. Now the compilation of the Bible was gradual and complex. Jewish religious authorities don't formally canonize their scriptures until the Council of Jamnia around 90 after Brian.

Mark: Hang on a second, I've got to ask you a question. I thought canonize related to only Christian texts.

Andy: Yes, it does make more sense. No, I mean...

Mark: There is a verb to canonize. All right.

Andy: Yes. though the core texts were widely accepted far earlier. And this process essentially involved determining which texts were divinely inspired and authentically connected to their religious tradition, which is what canonised text means. So the Christian Bible came about much later, incorporating the Hebrew scriptures as the Old Testament, and then adding the New Testament. Early Christian writings had circulated independently before later being collected and recognized as canonical. ⁓

Mark: canonical, it wasn't mean.

Andy: ⁓ it's the state you're in before you're canonized.

Mark: Alright, okay, yep, so unofficial text.

Andy: This could be inspired, but we don't know yet.

Mark: Okay, fine. Yeah, yeah.

Andy: So the New Testament's final form wasn't actually settled until the fourth century after Brian. So that's 500 years.

Mark: Right, this is the really interesting bit. So, over what period of time were the first canon texts that appear in a modern Bible? Was it sort of one or two hundred years after the death of Christ? You've said the last one was 500 years.

Andy: final form wasn't settled until...

Mark: 500 years.

Andy: 500 years.

Mark: But when did they start assembling? So Christ dies, historical fact, no problem there, but when do they start compiling the Gospels?

Andy: It was about 5.30 that afternoon. The fucking hell am I supposed to know?

Mark: Well, it's important because the thing is, you've got all of these apostles that were still around at the time, but none of them actually started writing the gospels.

Andy: Yeah, they were around, but mostly they were just going from bar to bar saying, have you seen Judas? Anyone seen Judas?

Mark: Alright, I'll let it pass for the moment, but I think that is critical, that there's no contemporaneous note-taking going on that's passed down through what was generations to culminate in what was the modern Bible.

Andy: Well. No No take in 200 years after Brian involved a hammer and fucking chisel. It wasn't something you could just sit down to after breakfast and scrawl a few scribblings.

Mark: Precisely my point. Yeah, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. All right. Now, here's a good segue into your next point, which is, I want you sorry, I thought you had carry on then.

Andy: I'm not finished with this bit. Yeah, so it wasn't settled until fourth century after Brian with various church councils debating which gospels, letters and other writings needed to be included. And throughout this whole process, political upheavals, religious reforms and theological debates influenced which texts survived and gained authority. And in that way, the Bible represents not a single authored work. but a carefully curated library reflecting centuries of religious thought and community experience.

Mark: Absolutely. Now here's a good question for you.

Andy: We're going to be here all day, you know. Yeah.

Mark: Well, you said we have a long one. Who was in power throughout the whole of this period?

Andy: What for 500 years?

Mark: Yeah, I think the Romans were still in power 500 years after Christ's death.

Andy: Yes, I would say so. think till about 800.

Mark: precisely. So in all of this accumulation of various Gospels, what to include, what not to include, editing, all of that sort of thing.

Andy: would have been mostly underground.

Mark: ⁓ well, do you think? So you don't think that the Romans actually latched onto the following of Christ's followers to actually manipulate the situation for them to stay in power?

Andy: Yeah, definitely. That would have involved them admitting that they actually fucked up and killed the son of God. And there's no way that you'll get a government to ever admit to something like that.

Mark: No. No, but no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Andy: Well.

Mark: Romans weren't Jewish.

Andy: No

Mark: So the Romans always blame the Jews and the Jews blame the Romans. That is the basis of why many Jewish people hate the Jews because they killed Christ.

Andy: Yes, but Pontius Pilate actually sentenced, it was Pontius Pilate who sentenced Christ to death.

Mark: and he's a Jew.

Andy: He was a Roman governor.

Mark: Sorry, I'm getting confused now. He was the Roman governor, yes.

Andy: Yeah.

Mark: at the behest of the Jewish population.

Andy: But. Well, yes.

Mark: All right, yep, so so far I see. Yeah, I mean, you know, carry on. Yep, carry on. No, but I think it's important the political backdrop in these times is very important.

Andy: Thank you. Yeah, but the point is, because it took 500 years, also has the unfortunate effect of making it difficult to identify the specific people who helped to develop the ideas. So the Old Testament is a lot easier in that respect. According to both Jewish and Christian dogma, the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, which are the first five books of the Bible and the entirety of the Torah, were all written by Moses himself in about 1300 B. B. Brian. There are a few issues with this, such as the lack of evidence that Moses ever existed even, and the fact that the end of Deuteronomy describes the author dying and being buried. scholars have developed their own take on who wrote the Bible's first five books, mainly by using internal clues and writing style. Just as English speakers can roughly date a book that uses a lot of these and vows, Bible scholars can contrast the styles of these early books to create profiles of the different authors.

Mark: But you see, this is where I start having difficulty understanding. If we accept that most of these stories were actually handed down by word of mouth to start with, then for them to look at the minutie of language and intonation and such like is sort of... Isn't that a bit missing the point? Nothing is reliable because it's all down by word of mouth anyway.

Andy: Yeah, but that's why it took hundreds of years to actually compile. They did whatever research they could available at the time before deciding on what to include.

Mark: And how many people did you meet in your time? You know, these scholars, they didn't travel very far, did they? They didn't go to America to, you know, talk to people there.

Andy: Well, I didn't. I didn't actually meet any of the said scholars. They would not answer in the phone when I was inquiring. Yeah, but I mean, you say that people didn't travel far, but they actually did. Some people did travel. Some people spent years traveling just to gather knowledge. It was either that or get a job.

Mark: Anyway, carry on.

Andy: Okay, thank you. So in each case, these writers, they're talked about as if they were a single person, but each author could just as easily be an entire school of people writing in a single style. And these biblical authors include E. E stands for Eloist, the name given to the authors who referred to God as Aleem. In addition to a fair bit of Exodus and a little bit of Numbers, the E-Authors are believed to be the ones who wrote the Bible's first creation account in Genesis chapter 1. Interestingly, Elim is plural. So chapter 1 originally stated that God created the heavens and earth. It's believed that this harkens back to a time when proto-Judaism was polytheistic. Although it was almost certainly certainly a one deity religion by the nine hundreds before Christ, when E would have been alive. The second one, similarly named, is Jay. Jay is believed to be the second author of the first five books, much of Genesis and some of Exodus, including the creation account in Genesis chapter two, which is the detailed one where Adam is first created and there's a snake. And this name comes from Jahweh, the German translation of Yahweh, the name that this author in particular used for God, Yahweh. At one time, Jay was thought to have lived close to the time of E, but there's no way that could be true. Some of the literary devices in terms of phrase that Jay uses could only have been picked up sometime after 600 years before Brian, during the Jewish captivity in Babylon. For example,

Mark: Your way. Yeah.

Andy: Eve first appears in Jay's text when she is made from the rib of Adam, and rib is tea in Babylonian, and it's associated with the goddess Tiamat, the mother deity. A lot of Babylonian mythology and astrology, including the stuff about Lucifer, the morning star, snuck into the Bible in this way via the captivity. Then we come on to P. These people never had names. Yeah. P stands for Priestley. And it almost certainly refers to a whole school of writers living in and around the Babylonian, ⁓ living in and around Jerusalem in the late sixth century ⁓ before Brian, immediately after the Babylonian captivity ended.

Mark: E.J.P.

Andy: And these writers were effectively reinventing the people's religion from fragmentary texts now lost. P writers drafted almost all of the dietary and other kosher laws, emphasized the holiness of the Sabbath, and wrote endlessly about Moses' brother Aaron, the first priest in Jewish tradition, to the exclusion of Moses himself and so on. P seems to have written just a few verses of Genesis and Exodus, but virtually all of Leviticus and Numbers. And P authors are distinguished from the other writers by their use of quite a lot of Aramaic words, mostly borrowed into Hebrew. In addition, some of the rules attributed to P are known to have been common amongst the Chaldeans of modern day Iraq, whom the Hebrews must have known. during their exile in Babylon suggesting that the p-texts were written after that period. Then we come to De. De is for Deuteronomist, which means the guy who wrote Deuteronomy. De was also, like the other four, originally attributed to Moses, but that's only possible if Moses liked to write in the third person, could see the future, used language no one in his own time would ever have used, and knew where his own tomb would be. So clearly, Moses was not who wrote the Bible at all.

Mark: So hang on a second, let me just get this straight. So what we're saying is you've got three groups of authors, E, J, P and D.

Andy: Yeah, that's four.

Mark: And that's what I said for ⁓ Did I sorry and so you have this accumulation of texts written by different groups of people that at some stage are all sort of as you say canonized that become the official Torah and the other Documents related to the Old Testament

Andy: You said three, but... Yes. Yes. At some point, they were collated. Thank you.

Mark: Is that what we're saying? And why do they all have sort of E sounds? E, J, P, D,

Andy: I mean, I don't know, maybe they just had problems remembering people's names in those days. Maybe they had a shortage of names. Actually, considering there was only probably about 300 people on the entire planet in those days, they probably just used the letters of the alphabet as names.

Mark: I wonder. Well you see that's another interesting point. I wonder what the population of Jerusalem was in the time 500 BC.

Andy: ⁓ I can send you? What year?

Mark: 500 BC, when all of this was put together.

Andy: It was 12.

Mark: idea. What always springs to my mind is what other religions originated at this sort of time? How old is Hinduism and things like that? No, and I think we should do it. I'd really like to know the parallels of how different religions, mean, obviously you've got Islam, Judaism and Christianity, they all came from the same thing and they're all modernish.

Andy: That's a whole new episode. Well, perhaps at the next Hindu religious festival we might, but next week I'm back on aliens,

Mark: Hinduism. Yes, I don't blame you. All right, carry on. So far quite interesting.

Andy: You So, also takes little asides to indicate just how much time has passed between the events described and the time of his writing about them. For instance, there were Canaanites in the land then, and Israel has not had such a great prophet as Moses down to this very day. So once again, disproving any notions that Moses was the one who wrote the Bible in any way whatsoever. Deuteronomy was actually written much later. The text first came to light in the 10th year of the reign of King Josiah of Judah, which was roughly 640 before Brian. Josiah had inherited the throne from his father at age 8, he ruled through the prophet Jeremiah until he was of age. And that's about 18. And when he was 18, the king decided to seize full control of Judah. So he dispatched Jeremiah to the Assyrians with a mission to fetch home the remaining diaspora Hebrews. Then he ordered a renovation of the temple of Solomon, where Deuteronomy was supposedly found under the floor, or so Josiah's story goes. ⁓ This text was a near perfect match for the cultural revolution that Josiah was leading at the time, coincidentally, suggesting that Josiah orchestrated this discovery to serve his own political and cultural ends.

Mark: No, surely not.

Andy: You can't see that in a world leader, could you? The next answers to the question of who wrote the Bible come from the books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings, generally believed to have been written during the Babylonian captivity in the middle of the 6th century. Yes, traditionally believed to have been written by Joshua and Samuel themselves, they are now often lumped in with Deuteronomy due to the similar style and language. Nevertheless,

Mark: Yes? BC.

Andy: There is a substantial gap between the discovery of Deuteronomy under Josiah in about 640 BC and the middle of the Babylonian captivity somewhere around 550 BC. However, it's possible that some of the youngest priests who were alive in the time of Josiah were still alive when Babylon hauled off the whole country as captives. Now, whether it was these priests of Deuteronomy, or their successors who wrote Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings. These texts represent a highly mythologised history of their newly dispossessed people thanks to the Babylonian captivity. Imagine capturing a whole country and literally transporting them.

Mark: Yeah, but the thing was the populations were so small in those days.

Andy: Well, yeah, mean, as I said, Jerusalem was only 12. So a stage coach would have sufficed.

Mark: I'm actually going to fact check that. I don't think it was only 12.

Andy: So. This history opens with the Hebrews getting a commission from God to leave their Egyptian captivity, which probably resonated with the contemporary readers, who had the Babylonian captivity on their minds, and then to utterly dominate the Holy Land. The next section covers the age of the great prophets. who were believed to be in daily contact with God, and who routinely humiliated the Canaanites, deities, with feats of strength and miracles. And finally, the two books of kings covered a golden age of Israel under the kings Saul, David and Solomon, and that centered around the 10th century before Brian. The intent of the authors here isn't that hard to pass. Throughout the books of Kings, the reader is assailed with endless warnings not to worship strange gods or take up the stranger's ways, especially relevant for a people in the middle of this Babylonian captivity, freshly plunged into a foreign country and without a clear national identity of their own. So the Bible's prophetic writings, the next text to examine when investigating who wrote the Bible, are those of the Biblical prophets, an eclectic group who mostly travelled around the various Jewish communities to admonish people and lay curses, and sometimes preach sermons about everybody's shortcomings. So a bunch of wankers, really.

Mark: It's bit unkind. I can throw in the population because it is interesting. So the population of Jerusalem around the time of Christ, so larger than what we're talking about, was sort they don't know exactly, but between 20 and 50 thousand.

Andy: Hmm. about the size of Moora.

Mark: precisely about the size of the town that I live in, which is pretty much the arse end of nowhere.

Andy: Yeah.

Mark: Can you imagine?

Andy: ⁓ yes, actually. There weren't many great cities around in that time.

Mark: Yeah, but yeah, anyway, anyway, so sorry, carry on, carry on, carry on.

Andy: So some prophets lived way back before the golden age while others did their work during and after the Babylonian captivity. Later, many of the books of the Bible attributed to these prophets were largely written by others and were fictionalized almost to the level of Aesop's fables by people living centuries after the events. In the books, were supposed to have happened. For example, Isaiah, he was one of the greater prophets of Israel. And the book of the Bible attributed to him is agreed to have been written in basically three parts, early, middle and late. Early or proto Isaiah texts may have been written close to the time when the man himself was actually alive, around about the eighth century before. about the time when the Greeks were first writing down Homer's stories. And these writings run from chapters one to 39, and they're all doom and judgment for sinful Israel. And when Israel actually did fall with the Babylonian conquest and captivity, the works attributed to Isaiah were dusted off and expanded into what is now known as chapters 40 to 55. by the same people who wrote Deuteronomy and the historical texts. And this part of the book is frankly the ravings of an outraged patriot about how all the lousy savage foreigners will someday be made to pay for what they've done to Israel. This is where we at today. Now this section is where the terms

Mark: You Indeed.

Andy: voice in the wilderness and swords into plowshares comes from. Finally, the third part of the Book of Isaiah was clearly written after the Babylonian captivity ended in 539 BC, when the invading Persians permitted the Jews to return home. It's not surprising then that this section of Isaiah is a burbling tribute to the Persian Cyrus the Great, who was identified as the Messiah himself for letting the Jews return to their home. Jeremiah, who was a nominal author of the Bible, he lived a century or so after Isaiah, immediately before the Babylonian captivity. And the authorship of his book remains relatively unclear, even compared with other discussions as to who wrote the actual Bible. He may have been one of the Deuteronomist writers, or he may have been one of the earliest J authors. His own book. may have been written by him or by man named Baruch ben Neria, whom he mentions as one of his scribes. Either way, the book of Jeremiah has a very similar style to King's, and so it's possible that either Jeremiah or Baruch simply wrote them all. And then we have Ezekiel. Ezekiel ben Buzi was a priesthood member living in Babylon itself during the captivity. And there's no way that he wrote the whole book of Ezekiel himself, given the stylistic differences from one part to the next, but he may have written some of it. His students, acolytes or junior assistants may have written the rest. And these also might have been the writers who survived Ezekiel to draft the P-text after the captivity.

Mark: When are we going on to the New Testament? It's so much more exciting.

Andy: I told you it was a long one. So the next section of the Bible and the next investigation into who wrote it is what's known as the wisdom literature. And these books are the finished product of nearly a thousand years of development and heavy editing. Unlike the histories, which are theoretically non-fiction accounts of stuff that happened, wisdom literature has been redacted over the centuries. with an extremely casual attitude, much like the Epstein files, that has made it hard to pin down any single book to any single author. Some patterns, however, have emerged. As in Job, the Book of Job is actually two scripts. In the middle, it's a very ancient epic poem, like the E-text, and these two texts may be the oldest writings in the Bible. On either side of that epic poem in the middle of Job are much more recent writings. It's almost as if Chaucer's Canterbury Towels were to be reissued today with an introduction and an epilogue by Stephen King, as if the whole thing were one long text.

Mark: What? What are you talking about? How Stephen King come into the bloody story?

Andy: Different writing styles. Chaucer, King, Job, and whoever wrote that.

Mark: Alright.

Andy: You throwing me off? Section one of Job contains a very modern narrative of set up and exposition, which was typical of the Western tradition and indicates that this part was written after Alexander the Great swept over Judah in 332 BC. The happy ending of Job, unfortunately I couldn't find any pictures. That went straight over your head.

Mark: Indeed. What?

Andy: The happy ending of Job is also very much in this tradition. Between these two sections, the list of misfortunes that Job endures and his tumultuous confrontation with God are written in a style that would have been around eight or nine centuries old when the beginning and the ending of that book were written. Then we come to Psalms and Proverbs.

Mark: Are we going through every book in the Old Testament?

Andy: We're dissecting because we're trying to find out who's responsible.

Mark: I've lost track of who's writing what and who's not doing this and Stephen King and the bloody tales of Canterbury.

Andy: I think we can agree that Stephen King probably didn't contribute.

Mark: That's what I thought.

Andy: Although maybe he should have, because he would have done a much better job of revelations. So Psalms and Proverbs, like Job, are also cobbled together from both older and newer sources. For example, some Psalms are written as if there's a reigning king on the throne in Jerusalem, while others directly mention the Babylonian captivity, during which time there was, of course, no king on the throne of Jerusalem. Proverbs was likewise continuously updated until about the mid-second century. before Brian. Then we go into the Ptolemaic period. The Ptolemaic period began with the Greek conquest of Persia in the late fourth century BC. Before then, the Jewish people had been doing very well under the Persians and they weren't happy about the Greek takeover. Their main objection seems to have been cultural. Within a few decades of the conquest, Jewish men were flagrantly adopting Greek culture by dressing in togas and drinking wine in public places.

Mark: outrageous.

Andy: I mean, women were even teaching Greek to their children and donations were way down at the temple, which was even worse. The writings from this time are of a high technical quality, partly thanks to the hated Greek influence, but they also tend to be melancholy likewise to the hated Greek influence. And books from this period include Ruth, Esther, Lamentations, Ezra, Nehemiah, Lamentations and Ecclesiastes. Now finally, the question of who wrote the Bible turns to the texts dealing with Jesus and beyond the New Testament. In the second century BC, with the Greeks still in power, Jerusalem was fully run by Hellenized kings who considered it their mission to erase Jewish identity with full assimilation. And to that end, Antiochus Epiphanes had a Greek gymnasium built across the street from the second temple. and made it a legal requirement for Jerusalem's men to visit it at least once. And the thought of stripping nude in a public place blew the minds of Jerusalem's faithful Jews, and they rose up in a bloody revolt to stop it.

Mark: So hang on a second, so 200 years before Christ, Jerusalem was controlled by the Greeks. So when did the Romans appear then?

Andy: Hmm. Yes. and what have the Rovmans ever done for us?

Mark: Well that's not the question Andy.

Andy: Well, we'll get, you know, this is a timeline we're following.

Mark: All right.

Andy: We will get there, hopefully. So in time, Hellenistic rule fell apart in the area and was replaced by said Romans. And it was during this time, which is early in the first century after death, that one of the Jews from Nazareth inspired a new religion, one that saw itself as a continuation of Jewish tradition, but with scriptures of its very own.

Mark: Mm-hmm.

Andy: The Gospel accounts of Jesus's life, the first Gospel ever to be written, may well have been Mark, which then inspired Matthew and Luke, John differs from the others. Alternatively, all three may have been based on a now lost older book known to scholars as Q. Where did he come from? Whatever the case, evidence suggests that Acts seems to have been written at the same time, the end of the first century, and by the same author as Mark. Mark, which is the shortest gospel written around 65-70 in Common Era, likely targets Gentile Christians in Rome during a period of persecution, and the author presents Jesus as the suffering son of God emphasising action over lengthy discourses.

Mark: Hang on, we've just got to a critical point there. So what you're saying is that in fact, something like Mark, which I think is the basis of, it's the primary, whatever you call it, gospel, was in fact within one lifetime, if not within the lifetime of an actual follower of Christ.

Andy: Yeah. Possibly considering he died at 32 years old or 33 years old.

Mark: an apostle. Jesus did. Yeah, but if they wrote the Bible, ⁓ I see, 66, did you say 66 years after death?

Andy: ⁓ I'm not going back. We'll be here all day. Mark's narrative moves rapidly, frequently the word immediately to create urgency and momentum. The gospel focuses on Jesus' mighty works, the healings, the exorcisms and miracles that demonstrate divine power while gradually revealing his identity. It emphasizes the messianic secret where Jesus often commands silence about his identity, suggesting that true understanding comes only through witnessing his death and his resurrection.

Mark: Sorry, are we talking about Matthew now or Mark? Mark, yep.

Andy: Lux Gospels. Meanwhile.

Mark: Hang on, hang on, hang know there's a lot, obviously people spend their whole lifetime studying who wrote the Bible. We're trying to cover it in an hour and a half. Did Jesus actually proclaim to be the Son of God in the Gospel of Mark?

Andy: ⁓ I haven't read the fucking thing.

Mark: Haven't you?

Andy: Well, the Bible, not since I was forced to read some of it at school when I was like six.

Mark: No, you must have read more out of the Bible after that, surely? Because you were brought up a Catholic.

Andy: Why? soon as, no interest. was all gobbledygook. Fucking, sort, bigay, bigat Solomon and Solomon bigat fucking David and David bigat fuck off. Stop, stop all the bigating. I didn't even know what a bigating was.

Mark: ⁓ It's a car. You've got to watch a baguette. Alright, so sorry, carry on to Luke. We're at Luke are we now?

Andy: We're on Luke's gospel.

Mark: So these are four gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Right.

Andy: Yes. So Luke's gospel was written around a decade later and it addresses a broader Gentile audience, particularly those of a higher social status. The author, who was like a well-educated Gentile companion of Paul, presents Jesus as the universal saviour of humanity.

Mark: Who was an apostle? Yeah.

Andy: Luke emphasizes God's concern for marginalized groups more than other gospels. So he was the woke one. It's narrative beginning with elaborate birth accounts and ending with Jesus' ascension. It's by far the most comprehensive ⁓ biographical account of Jesus' life, from his birth to his death. It also introduced parables like the Good Samaritan and the Prodigal Son. focusing on mercy and reconciliation. Women also play prominent roles throughout Luke's narrative. Matthew's gospel, which was written about the same time as Luke, focuses more on addressing a Jewish Christian audience familiar with the Hebrew scriptures. The author presents Jesus as the promised Messiah who fulfills Old Testament prophecies, opening with a genealogy tracing Jesus back to Abraham, and David. Matthew effectively reframes Jesus as the new Moses, organising his teaching into five major discourses that parallel the Torah. The Gospel of Matthew includes numerous quotations from Hebrew scriptures, often introduced by saying, this was to fulfil what was spoken by the prophet. Here, Jesus is portrayed as both fulfilling and transcending Jewish law. addressing tensions that emerged between Jewish traditions and Christian practices, emphasising the Church's mission to all nations. The Gospel of John, on the other hand, is dramatically different from the synoptic gospels in style, emphasis and theological emphasis. The author presents Jesus as the divine word or logos who became flesh. targeting both Jewish and Gentile audiences in a sophisticated theological treaties. Rather than parables, John records lengthy discourses where Jesus reveals his identity through a lot of I am statements like I am the bread of life. I am the light of the world. There's a lot of me, me, me. John's perspective focuses on Jesus' divine nature and pre-existence, opening with the cosmic proclamation that the Word was God. It largely hones in on miracles that reveal Jesus' glory, rather than demonstrating compassion for human need, and presents sharp dualistic contrasts like light versus darkness, truth versus falsehood, or life versus death. The author primarily wrote for Christians facing persecution and expulsions from Jewish communities, presenting Jesus as confident, commanding and clearly divine.

Mark: But hang on a second, you see, this is where it gets a bit interesting because John, one of the four gospel writers. He was actually an apostle, wasn't he?

Andy: Yes. John the Baptist, wasn't he? Well that's another joke.

Mark: I don't know whether he was John the Baptist, but I think he was an apostle, so he was around in the time of Christ.

Andy: I think they all were, the four gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Mark: or they were associated with people who were around.

Andy: They were definitely part of the inner circle.

Mark: But this is, I mean, and people, don't know, we obviously haven't got time to go into it, but this is the great debate, whether these people actually wrote the gospels that are attributed to them.

Andy: So that's what we're going to explode here today.

Mark: We are going to solve the centuries-old dilemma.

Andy: I'm going to tell you at the end, I'm going to tell you at the end to the middle name who wrote this nonsense.

Mark: All right, well we've done the four gospels then Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but you've got Paul he wrote all these letters to people

Andy: Yes. Well, the epistles and the writings of Paul is a series of letters written by various early congregations in the Eastern Mediterranean by a single individual, Saul of Tarsus, famously converted after an encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, after which he changed his name to Paul. and became the single most enthusiastic missionary of the new religion. Along the way to his eventual martyrdom, which is not a good ending for anybody, Paul wrote epistles of James, Peter, John's and Jude. Paul authored 13 letters, including Romans, Corinthians, Galatians and others, addressing specific congregational issues. while developing core Christian theology. His letters tackle problems like division, sexual immorality, disputes over Jewish law, and questions about Christ's return. His writings established foundational concepts, including justification by faith, the church as Christ's body, and Christian freedom from mosaic law. The general epistles addressed a broader Christian audience and included elements of practical Christian living, warnings against false prophets, and it encouraged perseverance through persecution. These writings were among some of the earliest Christian theological writings and revealed a transformation of Christianity from a Jewish sect to a universal religion.

Mark: It's not too unbelievable that within such a short space of time, Christianity was actually developing as a religion. Because you think it's sort of a bit unbelievable that within the space of 50 or 60 years, you've actually got a religion coming up. But I was thinking the other day about something like Scientology. and all of these sort of, in my mind, madnesses, you know, they have tremendous followings in the space of one generation.

Andy: Yeah, and tremendous financial backing.

Mark: these days. Yeah well I wonder if I wonder if I wonder if Chris

Andy: It's a bit like running for president. If you've got enough money, you can start your own religion.

Mark: I wonder if they were sort of after the money in the really early days. mean, obviously the Catholic Church made an art form out of turning religion into money, but... ⁓ I wonder if it was all just good intentions in those days.

Andy: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Mark: Anyway, so carry on, we're done, Paul. Yeah, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul.

Andy: So unlike the gospels, the epistles proved direct theological instruction, making them crucial for understanding early Christian thought. So now we're going to move on to the apocalyptic literature, the book of Revelation.

Mark: Ooh is that not good? I can't remember what's in Revelations.

Andy: With the book of Revelation, or in the book of Revelation, the white horse remains one of the most well-known. The book of Revelation has traditionally been attributed to John the apostle. Unlike other traditional attributions, this one isn't very far off in terms of actual historical authenticity.

Mark: What? The White Horse?

Andy: Although this book was written a little late for someone who claimed to know Jesus personally. John of Revelation fame seems to have been a converted Jew who wrote his version of the end times on the Greek island of Patmos about a hundred years after Jesus' death at Golgotha. Addressed to seven churches in Asia Minor during Roman persecution, Revelation uses symbolic imagery like beasts, seals, trumpets and bowls to depict cosmic conflict between good and evil. And the book represents or presents Jesus as the victorious lamb who defeats Satan and establishes God's eternal kingdom. Revelations is highly symbolic language has generated diverse interpretations throughout history. Some view it as a prophecy about future end times and others as a commentary on first century Roman oppression and others yet as a timeless spiritual truth about God's ultimate victory. The book offered hope. to persecuted Christians, promising that despite their present suffering, God will judge evil and create a new heaven and a new earth. While the writings attributed to John actually do show some congruity between who wrote the Bible according to tradition and who wrote the Bible according to historical evidence, the question of biblical authorship remains thorny, complex and contested. And now we come to the final review.

Mark: No, hang on, hang on, I just want to... I just looked up what percentage of the population in those days was probably literate. Have a guess.

Andy: I would guess probably 5%.

Mark: Yeah, okay, so it is three to five, three to five, exactly.

Andy: You should know that I always get these right.

Mark: Now you do guess generally quite well. So the thing is that there weren't that many people around who could actually write.

Andy: No, and by that very definition, they probably knew each other. So they colluded. And this is why my revelation about who actually wrote the Bible will ring true.

Mark: It must have done.

Andy: So you heard it here first at Strange Stuff podcast. The Bible was actually written by the Brothers Grimm. And that brings us to the end.

Mark: What are you talking about, idiot? That's the biggest anti-climax since Topcare pretended that Michael Schumacher was the Stig.

Andy: That's it. That's it. Not anymore.

Mark: What?

Andy: No, but that's it. mean, I've gone as far as I can go. There is some mitigation, but you can tell that from what I said, that some of it probably was written about the time it's claimed and some of it wasn't. So obviously there's this mishmash of some that was written by who it's claimed and some that was written by others.

Mark: Well, the thing is, I mean, I wasn't joking. But I mean, obviously we're doing a Strange Stuff podcast on who wrote the Bible and biblical scholars, they literally spend their lives studying this particular subject.

Andy: To be honest, I fell asleep halfway through talking about it. So I don't know how they can spend years on this nonsense.

Mark: But it is interesting that the... because without the Bible, if you didn't have the Bible, you've got the three main religions simply wouldn't exist. And certainly the New Testament, Christianity wouldn't exist if the New Testament didn't exist. That's basis of the religion. And when you start...

Andy: Yeah, I think that's

Mark: questioning, well hang on a second, who wrote the Bible? There's so many levels of uncertainty.

Andy: Although the New Testament is a little bit more certain than the Old Testament, that's for sure.

Mark: But it's not. I'm telling you, people study about it. There's a per- Q. Who's Q? You haven't even touched on Q.

Andy: He's the chap who does all the good inventions for James Bond.

Mark: Yeah, well, he might as well be. But so it's a very interesting subject and the most incredible thing bearing in mind the basis of Christianity. How many times does Jesus's words sort of quotes from Jesus appear in the New Testament?

Andy: Well, I remember the most famous one is when he took a sip from the chalice and he went, fuck me, it's only worked.

Mark: Yes, but I think Jesus's words are only reported in about 10 pages of the Bible. You've got the Sermon on the Mount and a few other things where his actual spoken word is reported. You would have thought that as a ⁓ prophetic individual appearing in the time,

Andy: Ha ha ha!

Mark: that his words would have been more widely reported.

Andy: You've got to be careful though, because if you talk too much, you can talk yourself into a hole. So they were probably being very careful redacting stuff that could be questioned or contested in future days and just leaving the bare bones with just enough mystery to frame it as a miracle. Like he turned the water into wine, but did it coincide with the delivery of wine? from the local offie.

Mark: You don't have to turn everything into a joke. It's such an interesting subject matter.

Andy: No, but it's true. mean, it could have been that when he arrived at the place where he turned the fishes, where he drank the feeding of 5,000, when he had the fishes and the loaves, it could have been a fucking food or a delivery.

Mark: Feeding with the 5,000, yeah.

Andy: From the Jerusalem fucking...

Mark: All of his reported miracles, they're obviously stories.

Andy: Yes.

Mark: But I come back to my question, and you can do a separate episode on this, what words did Jesus speak that are actually reported in the Bible? And it's like almost nothing.

Andy: There was the one quote when he was on the cross and he was calling for Paul and it took Paul a while to arrive and Jesus was getting weaker and weaker and just before he died, just before he died, Paul said, what is it Lord? And he said, I could see your house from here.

Mark: Yes. Yep, that's right, that's one. Again! No, that was in the film, wasn't it? The life of Brian.

Andy: No, they didn't say I could see your house from here, I don't think.

Mark: Oh, didn't they? Anyway, but hang on a second. What we need to do. No, no, no, no, no. Before we close, we need to do another episode on the books that didn't appear in the canonized version. The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene.

Andy: Anyway, did you? No. Jeez, this like, you know, we've got to try and stay strange to justify our title.

Mark: You can't get much stranger than a bloody gospel written by Mary Magdalene that doesn't appear in the Bible.

Andy: So you're saying that what women couldn't write in those days? Is that what you're coming from?

Mark: I'm saying they could write, but they could be easily ignored. This goes back to your bloody cup with those strange breast shapes on it. demeaning women down to the size and shape of their breasts.

Andy: This is Mary Magdalen. Now look, I have to ask your opinion on your hair and makeup for the Inca episode picture.

Mark: Anyway. Why is it I always look so unhappy?

Andy: Well, did you say your earrings?

Mark: It was ridiculous. You look like some sort of drag queen and I look like some sort of made up monster.

Andy: you What do mean? I was a Spanish conquistador. It was a day.

Mark: ⁓ that's right. You were you were the Spanish conquistador.

Andy: ⁓ Excellent stuff.

Mark: Anyway, I can't we have to apologize in advance for your demeaning attitude to one of the key questions in modern society who wrote the Bible and all you can talk about is views from the cross. It's just ridiculous. Anyway.

Andy: You Oh, well, you've got to lighten the subject sometimes. That's quite a tough read. I'd like to credit all thisinteresting.com for most of my research.

Mark: You're right. Who was it called? interesting.com.

Andy: All That's Interesting.com

Mark: Alright, I haven't ever heard of that.

Andy: Ugh, well, I never want to again after all that. But anyway, thanks for listening. I hope you all enjoyed that as much as Mark found it interesting. Highly unlikely. ⁓ Religious stuff is always difficult to trudge through, I find, which is why I inject as much humour as possible.

Mark: Yes? No. But the thing is that it is, you can't get much more strange than religion.

Andy: No, it's true.

Mark: There is nothing stranger than religion.

Andy: Well, there's sport.

Mark: No, sport is completely understandable, religion is completely unfathomable. In the 21st century.

Andy: ⁓ voter intelligence? That's pretty strange.

Mark: You're right actually.

Andy: Anyway, that does bring us to the end of this week's episode of Strange Stuff Podcast. Thanks for listening.

Mark: Very good, and my laundry isn't ready yet. That's also excellent.

Andy: Don't forget, we are voting on the Titty Mug, yay or nay, and if it's a nay, I will devise some form of competition to find out who will receive said mug as a consolation prize. Imagine being the one who receives the Holy Grail of the Titty Mug from Strange Stuff Podcast.

Mark: I wonder where Amanda bought it from?

Andy: I know exactly where she bought it from.

Mark: Well, tell me.

Andy: ⁓ In in in the in some some shop in town in Disca or in the. I'm telling you.

Mark: In disc? No. No, Indisca wouldn't sell a cup like that.

Andy: Anyway, you digress. ⁓ yeah. Keep listening. We'll be back on Wednesday for our Patreons. And in the meantime, have yourselves a drink. Yes. Yes. I don't like the way you say free. It's, mean, all our stuff is free. It's just that we do like a coffee or a beer for some of the stuff.

Mark: Hang on, was this free? This one was free. It is free for the listeners. Yeah, but that's like that bloke who sold me that bloody record on Oxford Street that year. Everything's free but we like a contribution.

Andy: Yeah, it's absolutely free. Hang on, hang on. Not so fast.

Mark: Yeah, exactly. All right.

Andy: Yeah, if you're a Patreon, thank you very much. If you're not a Patreon, please come and join us. It's very helpful in these desperate times. Helps us to keep up to date with our equipment, help finance our running costs because Mark's no good.

Mark: Indeed. What? ⁓ is it that time of the month again?

Andy: No, I don't think it is. No, no, not by a long shot. Anyway, yeah, have yourself a strange week. We'll see you same time, same place next week. And hopefully we'll see more of you on Wednesdays where you will also get the added bonus of the murdery bits that I do with Richard.

Mark: Alright.

Andy: So, bye for now.

Mark: Cheerio.