Andy: Hello everyone, I'm Andy.

Mark: and I'm Mark, you're very low volume today.

Andy: I'm booming in my levels here. Your mic is not as loud as it could be.

Mark: Yeah, but that's because I'm holding it away from my mouth so I don't get the popping sound.

Andy: Yeah, but that's too far.

Mark: What about now?

Andy: No, there's something. Yeah, that's better. think. ⁓ fucking no wonder. Honestly, it's like working with fucking mental children. Fucking retard.

Mark: ⁓ it was the wrong way round. ⁓ to front. ⁓ Is that better for you Andy and listeners?

Andy: Yes, said our listener. Right, we're not going to mention the T word today.

Mark: Good. Very good. All right, it's a T word free zone. It's good actually, because I made the mistake of watching that movie Civil War yesterday and all I got was angry. Have you seen that one with Kirsten Dunst?

Andy: I don't know, probably.

Mark: You know, the one who comes from up the road. Well, actually she doesn't, but her grandparents did.

Andy: No idea.

Mark: Kirsten Dunn, Swedish grandparents.

Andy: Forget her. mean, I don't know the name. I don't know the face. So it doesn't matter. But the film, what's the film about?

Mark: It's basically a civil war within America. So you've got the army representing the presidential forces and ⁓ you've got everybody else.

Andy: ⁓ and was the president hiding in a bunker in the White House?

Mark: Sort of. He was hiding in a room in the White House.

Andy: And he got assassinated at the end. Yes, I've seen it.

Mark: Yes, he did get assassinated in the end. And the character, well, we shouldn't give too much away. But anyway, it was, you know, it was ⁓

Andy: No one's gonna mind, because it's a fucking piece of Netflix shite.

Mark: No, it's not. No, no. It was quite a decent movie. ⁓ But as I say, it was extreme. I watched that got angry and then I had to try and calm down before I went to bed.

Andy: you I'll tell you what is back on Netflix and I had to sit through the whole thing yesterday. One of my favorite series of all time.

Mark: What? Little Britain.

Andy: No, it's funnier than that.

Mark: ⁓ not that, that caravan thing where people live in caravans.

Andy: No, but did... ⁓ god, we're not allowed to say his name, but apparently he invented the word caravan. He claims to have invented the word caravan, but we can't talk about it. ⁓ No, it's love on the spectrum.

Mark: Excellent. Good on him. No, all right. Love on the Spectrum? I don't know what that is.

Andy: It's all these autistic people being set up on dates with each other.

Mark: Right. And what does that make interesting TV?

Andy: It's fucking brilliant. It's hilarious. ⁓ it's also very sweet. ⁓

Mark: So, my question is, are you laughing with them or at them?

Andy: ⁓ definitely with them. I mean, I want to adopt them, all of them. You could imagine that life would just not be dull with these people around. They're just so fucking funny and so innocent about it. It's just like, I think we could all do with a little bit of that, to be honest.

Mark: ⁓ but I can't believe they actually commissioned a TV program called Love on the Spectrum. Is it American or English?

Andy: Why not? They've done everything else. They've done fuck Ireland and fuck brother. It's nice to have a little bit of innocent TV for a change.

Mark: don't know what. You're right. It's like, it's like that series where they got married at first sight.

Andy: ⁓ how fucking sad is that? And there's another one, ⁓ Love is Blind, where they don't even get to see each other until they get married.

Mark: What, because people are blind? They get blind people to...

Andy: No, they're not allowed to see each other's faces.

Mark: ⁓ I see.

Andy: Same as married at first sight, I guess, but just they date each other verbally and they fall in love and then the big reveal at the end is when they meet.

Mark: Amen. And how often does that work out? Because it's obviously to make decent television, you've got to have some particularly unattractive bloke and...

Andy: I have no idea because I can honestly tell you I have never watched a single minute of any of those programs. I have no interest in that drivel.

Mark: Well, you have. You've just said how much you enjoyed Love on the Spectrum.

Andy: That is not the same. That is not in the same vein. Love on the Spectrum is a touch of television genius.

Mark: I'm sorry. ⁓ dear. Alright, so that was your entertainment for yesterday. So you got entertained and felt happy and I didn't get entertained and felt angry and irritated. I think I should start watching your programs.

Andy: I see your BBC has been at it again. They've been employing another paedophile for the last nine years.

Mark: ⁓ Yes, he's a TV. He's not a TV. He's a radio presenter

Andy: Are you frozen again? Well, he's on TV as well, actually, Scott Mills. Yeah, he's on TV as well, Scott Mills.

Mark: I can still hear you. ⁓ is he? I don't know who he is. Yes, what they revealed yesterday was they knew he'd been charged.

Andy: But they claim they've known about him. Yeah, but they've known about his investigation and his charges for nine years. Nine fucking years. But they apparently they've only just found out that the boy was under 16.

Mark: 2017, yeah. Yes, though in fact ⁓ there was no action taken.

Andy: Well.

Mark: Was he prosecuted for something?

Andy: No, because it never is. ⁓

Mark: No, I don't think... Nothing... He wasn't prosecuted, he was questioned.

Andy: I don't know. I didn't read the meat of the story. It's just headlines that I'm scanning.

Mark: Exactly. So you just take the... it's typical you. Just take the headlines.

Andy: But this is the story that's been going on all week. ⁓ So there's plenty of meat in the headlines. ⁓ What do you think? They're not, they're not lying.

Mark: ⁓ Who's not lying?

Andy: I mean, he's definitely guilty of something.

Mark: This sounds a bit bit dubious

Andy: But the point of my rant is the BBC are at it again, covering for these fucking sex criminals.

Mark: I think what's more interesting... is that fellow who's the ⁓ actor, podcaster who's been accused of rape, raping seven girls. What? No, his name's not Mark, is it? You idiot. Russell Brandt.

Andy: Mark. You. It's you. Is it me? ⁓ Brand, yeah, he's a fucking full on villain. He is definitely a rapist.

Mark: So, Russell Brandt is photographed in the back of a taxi, or wherever he is, in the back of a car, holding a Bible. What?

Andy: Yeah, of course. It's a bit like Harvey Winebanger with his walking frame going into the courtroom. It's a prop. It's to garner sympathy.

Mark: Yeah. I mean, really, honestly, does he walk everywhere with a Bible in his hand? I don't think so.

Andy: ⁓ but he's found God, he can't be guilty of those vile things.

Mark: Anyway, now what you must have been extremely disappointed about is the fact that, yes you are, admit it, admit it, you were hoping to come on today and say, another delay, I told you so.

Andy: No it's not. No it's not. No, no, no. I was hoping for this big explosion. And it's not too late. Honestly, the Iranians will find a way of blowing up that spaceship.

Mark: ⁓ really? The Iranians!

Andy: Yeah, you wait and see who gets the blame. The Iranians have got... The Iranians are waiting up there. Don't worry about that.

Mark: I see what you mean. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Now I think they are. What's it called orbiting circumnavigating the moon as we speak.

Andy: No, it's a 10 day mission. It's 250,000 mile round trip. They can't have done 125 K already.

Mark: 11 day mission. What do mean? I think they're travelling at about 28,000 miles an hour.

Andy: ⁓ fuck off. You don't believe all that nonsense, do you? Are we getting any AI, have we got any AI video to look at? That's what I want to know. Are they, are they making, are they making TikToks in the capsule?

Mark: I'll tell you what, I tell you what, what's quite interesting is it... Look, can I not get a word in edgeways? God's sake.

Andy: And let's hope that the woman isn't driving. I've got to finish all my space jokes first. Let's hope the woman isn't driving.

Mark: That's just misogynistic, sexist.

Andy: Otherwise they're going to end up orbiting Pluto. And also, what would be fucking perfect, right, is if her handbag went missing in the capsule.

Mark: You are really pathetic sometimes. They're on their way. You saw the rocket take off. So at what stage in your mind does it start to be fake? Thousands of people watched a rocket, an enormous rocket take off from California or wherever it was, Cape and Avril, I don't know where it is these days. Are you saying that was fake?

Andy: ⁓ fuck off. I have no doubt that they can attain low Earth orbit. But they ain't going anywhere near the moon.

Mark: But the thing is we can see it if it's low Earth orbit. You can look up in the sky and see the satellites and the space station and things. You can. With a pretty modest telescope you can see the space station.

Andy: No, you can't. No, you can't. Come on. When did you last see a satellite? Absolute nonsense. And how would you be able to tell the difference between a space station, a satellite and a module with four actors in it?

Mark: Well, it's just pointless, isn't it? You literally saw the rocket take off!

Andy: No, I didn't. I didn't watch it. I'm not going to lose my sleep for that nonsense. It's all AI rubbish. Slop, as we call it in the AI game.

Mark: Mmm. Well, what is becoming interesting to me is that since we have started using AI, Arabella, to advertise our podcasts, it has become, she's lovely, did you say? Well, you created her. What was that movie where they literally were able to, they turned a mannequin or they made someone?

Andy: She's lovely by the way. Yeah, she's got good taste. She's got good taste in men.

Mark: It was quite a popular 80s sort rom-com. Weird science, exactly. So this is the equivalent of weird science. And as a matter of interest, is there a button that you can press to make you look more attractive?

Andy: ⁓ that was weird science. you What?

Mark: I sense that when you post a picture of yourself on the webpage or Facebook that you've pressed a button that says make me look more like Brad Pitt.

Andy: No.

Mark: I'm sure you've done it, haven't you? Make me look more attractive, please.

Andy: No, I've got one of those attractive faces.

Mark: You do not. Anyway, let me get to the bloody point I was trying to make. What's interesting is that when you know something is AI, like Arabella, there are certain traits that you can pick up on an AI character or avatar or whatever you call them. And suddenly you realize how many...

Andy: If you would. She's not.

Mark: of the videos that you see posted on Facebook and things like that are in fact AI.

Andy: Yeah, I told you even, even like well-known influencers are using AI and they don't even make their own videos on TikTok or anything. It's just, they just sit back and someone else does all the work and they just get the money. It's ridiculous.

Mark: You can tell quite often because the intonation is lacking. It's a bit monotone. And the facial expressions are

Andy: Yeah, you can actually record your own voice though.

Mark: What do mean?

Andy: You can actually record your own voice and then the AI will sync to your voice. So it's only because Arabella is a lady, but I don't voice her myself.

Mark: lip sync. Alright. ⁓ I see. But anyway, it is quite...

Andy: but she does have a little bit of information.

Mark: Yeah, she does. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that there's something slightly off. And once you've recognized what's off knowing that Arabella is there, you can pick up on AI videos.

Andy: ⁓ You're just a bit peeved because she doesn't like you.

Mark: She loves me.

Andy: Clearly.

Mark: No, but that's obvious, Andy, because she's always she obviously knows me very well and feels very secure in our relationship because that's why she's willing to joke about me the whole time.

Andy: Well I joke about you all the whole time and you just call me a bastard.

Mark: You You were saying the other...

Andy: What the is that?

Mark: You weren't just calling me vacuous, you were calling me something else irrelevant. Why don't we replace Mark with a tub of lard?

Andy: Well...

Mark: Anyway, so that is actually quite sort of frightening the volume of AI generate, you know, they literally just come up with a script and create anything like that manscaping thing we saw.

Andy: Yeah. Yep. I mean, this is not quite the same, but it's almost the same. I don't know who these people are. Stacy Solomon and Joe Swash.

Mark: How would I know who they are?

Andy: I don't know, but I don't know who they are.

Mark: Stacey, I baptised this child Stacey. Really?

Andy: ⁓ they had a big lavish wedding at Pickle Cottage, wherever that is.

Mark: You can't have a large... You can't have a lavish wedding at somewhere called Pick-Prickwillow Cottage.

Andy: Little college cottage. I'm guessing it's one of those queen type cottages where it's got like four stories and a hundred of acres. But anyway, they obviously sold the rights to OK Magazine and it was obviously televised because lots of stuff, lots of pictures, but ⁓ it wasn't even real. They sold the whole fucking scam.

Mark: All right. Okay.

Andy: And it wasn't even real, they're not legally married.

Mark: ⁓ So what, so they had a wedding celebration and a party which was all covered.

Andy: We're in a bridal dress. The whole thing with an alleged vicar. ⁓ they built, it says here, they've got six kids. So they've been together a while, unless she's been around a bit. It says here, they built lucrative careers on their family image and they staged a showy wedding in the garden of their Instagram famous home, but never actually got round to registering the union. So they are technically unmarried.

Mark: I don't think that's much of a story Andy, come on. I think we need to bring Mr T back into the picture if that's the...

Andy: It's actually the lead story in The Sun. That's how sad the sun is. Yeah.

Mark: No. Two people you've never heard of just not

Andy: having a sham wedding.

Mark: No, there's got to be more going on. I mean, we're thinking of rejoining the European Union, for God's sake. That's got to be bigger, surely. Yes, we are. Keir Starmer. Your best mate.

Andy: No, we're not. No, we're not. No, we're not. Fuck Keir Starmer. He will be assassinated. He will be assassinated before he pulls that level of betrayal.

Mark: betrayal

Andy: Yes, he's got no fucking right. No fucking right whatsoever. Do you understand what will happen? Do you understand what will happen to not Great Britain anymore if they accepted us back into that poisonous union? We would be fucking penalized so much. I mean, they penalized us in the first place.

Mark: You wait. ⁓ my god!

Andy: But if they would have so many conditions and so much money to take us back in that we would end up again with price rises to cover the cost of entry, more money, less people being able to afford food. No way. No way.

Mark: So. Do you have watches? Why? You're unbelievable. You do realize you left England to live in Sweden.

Andy: Yes, yes.

Mark: So what are you talking about? You left England to move to Sweden. What betrayal are you talking about?

Andy: What do you mean? Yeah? What's that got to do with anything? Look, the UK, the last thing they want to do is ask to be let back into Europe because they will fucking make them pay. And they can't afford it. They're already being fucking robbed by Keir and his bunch of fucking thieving penny pinches.

Mark: Look. Look, when when There's something... What? Did you not sleep last night or something?

Andy: Well, how do you not see what would happen? They hated us while we were in it before. They hated us leaving and they've already said that they would definitely change the rules for us if we ever wanted to go back. And they would. They would make us pay. To get reparations for slavery, reparations for rejoining the EU would kill the country.

Mark: Alright. Okay, so let me... Can I say something? Can I say something, please?

Andy: Plus, plus there would be a lot of people who would be very unhappy. God, there would be an uprising. As long as it's, you can't defend the EU.

Mark: No, obviously not. Alright, can I say something now? Can I defend? Of course I can. So let me just let me just summarize the situation.

Andy: You can't. It's like the Mafia. Unelected bunch of money grabbing wankers.

Mark: Let me just summarize the situation. So you feel that you would be betrayed. You weren't betrayed by Johnson and Farage. You weren't betrayed by all of those 350 million on the side of a bus.

Andy: I just summarised EU for you. Look, they're all, they're all betrayers. They're all betrayers. I would love, I would love for one prime minister to one time turn around and do something that was good for the country and not what was good for him and his puppet masters. I think we need closer ties with the EU because they've given me money. ⁓ Fucking star.

Mark: I always see. ⁓ I see. So your read of the situation is that the UK has benefited from Brexit.

Andy: ⁓ here we go. We're not going to start this nonsense, right? The EU is fucking... There are pluses and minuses all situations, including leaving the EU.

Mark: What are you talking about? You're the one who started it! Well give us a plus for the Brexit.

Andy: ⁓ do you need a plus? Come on, it's an easy question. Give us a plus. Well, for one thing...

Mark: Yeah, come on. Yeah, I'm just a simp- it is a simple question. What is that you're arguing so vehemently against- against going back?

Andy: Yeah, we don't know. We don't know what the pluses are because we didn't actually fucking leave because Theresa May did the worst negotiation ever, which Boris Johnson then ratified. So they still steal all our fish from our fishing waters. They still fucking take 90 % of the gross income of 80 % of the fucking people in the UK. They're robbers. They're thieves. We need to stand up. and take Europe back. That's what we need to do. We've got a frigate. Yeah, we've got a frigate. We should invade. Take the whole fucking thing back. The French will be no problem. They'll just roll over. We know that.

Mark: take Europe back. They are the least. I mean it's unbelievable that the inconsistency in the way you to and fro from one side to the other is just mind-boggling. It's blatantly obvious we need to go back into the EU.

Andy: Anyway. shut up. Don't start me because I've got a great subject today and you're going to put me in a bad mood. Fucking EU. We should have a SWEXIT. That's what we need next. Sweden out. Sweden exit.

Mark: Wait. What's the Swexit? We've just joined NATO. I think...

Andy: Yeah that's a completely separate entity. See that's a separate entity and it should be kept separate. It should have nothing to do with the EU.

Mark: What, policy? A common defence policy? What's wrong with that?

Andy: Yes, that's a NATO, that is a NATO fucking job. That doesn't need to be overseen by a bunch of unelected, unelected fucking bureaucrats who pay themselves way too much money and put themselves in charge of your army. Fuck off. What kind of world do you want to live in? ⁓ Nobody, forget the MEPs, they're not the ones in charge.

Mark: You When you say unelected, how do MEPs come into being? What do mean that is the European Parliament MEPs, Member of the European Parliament?

Andy: not in charge of anything. All they're in charge of is moving their offices from one building to another building every six months at taxpayers expense. ⁓ it's winter time we'll go to the other building. ⁓ it's summertime we'll go back to the other building.

Mark: So. So do you believe that MPs exist?

Andy: What? MPs, what do you think they do? What do you think they do? All they do is fucking bugger children and turn up for 10 minutes to get their £300 a day attendance and then fuck off to the sex club. That's all they do.

Mark: Do you believe that MPs... What? Look, I was the one that was annoyed and irritated last night for watching that movie. You watched something supposedly entertaining and then 12 hours later you're going on a massive rant about anybody and everybody.

Andy: ⁓ I'm gonna have to watch Love on the Spectrum again after this just to bring myself down. ⁓ Anyway, that segues us nicely into today's subject.

Mark: You certainly do. I don't think it does. Come on, what is it then?

Andy: which is ⁓ suicides, myths and hauntings in

Mark: I don't like the initial bit. What?

Andy: No, I know. And unfortunately, because where you've got a haunting, you've generally got a reason for it. So you are going to be a little bit squeamish. We're going to talk today about haunted hotels.

Mark: ⁓ well that seems... What? Faulty towers? Haunty towers?

Andy: Do you think 40 Towers is actually real?

Mark: What? What? Of course it is.

Andy: Do think it's actually a hotel?

Mark: Well, I know it's a hotel. ⁓ it used to be. I'm probably haunted.

Andy: I'm better than breakfast. Haunted by the ghost of comedy where comedy went to die.

Mark: Exactly. Don't mention the war. So there are specifically hotels that claim to be haunted to get extra guests.

Andy: ⁓ they don't just claim to be haunted. have been some ⁓ horrible things have happened in hotels. And I'm not just talking about when I've stayed there.

Mark: Are these based mainly in America? Could they be?

Andy: So we've. No. Well, our first one is in South America. And it's actually linked or it has a link with one of our lost cities. I don't know if you remember when we spoke about the Muisca people.

Mark: Alright. Atlantis Yeah, maybe.

Andy: Well the Hotel Di Salto which translates quite literally to Hotel of the Leap.

Mark: leap as in jump.

Andy: has purportedly been haunted for decades. Now it serves as a museum. century-old structure in Colombia overlooks a waterfall on the Bogotá River. Initially used as the residential mansion home of architect Carlos Arturo Tapias, it opened its doors to guests in 1928. Bad timing, but with unnerving consequences. Just beyond its walls, where the falls cascade down the foggy mountain, many people have leapt to their deaths. either out of despair or inspired by Indigenous law.

Mark: What do you mean indigenous law? What does that mean?

Andy: Nearly 100 Well, hundreds of years ago, the indigenous Muyska people would leap off the Tequendama Falls, it's called Tequendama, to escape the Spanish conquistadors. And apparitions have reportedly stalked the area ever since. Just beyond the walls, blah, blah, many people have leapt in a death, either out of despair or inspired by the indigenous law, nearly 100 years later, visitors and tourists from around the world still frequent the former hotel. The myths, mishaps and supposed supernatural incidents that occurred there will likely continue to lure visitors for years to come. Tequendama the name of the falls near the Hotel de Salto. Tequendama translates to, he who precipitated downwards.

Mark: there you go, gravity.

Andy: water, rain. In the indigenous, or Ch'ipcha language of the Muiska people. ⁓ As the story goes, native people would leap from Tequendama Falls to avoid being captured by the Spanish forces who started to conquer South America in the 1500s. And rather than meeting their demise, however, I'm just going to move my screens a little.

Mark: What are you doing?

Andy: I'm just adjusting my screens because I had my script way over to the left. It's starting to irritate me.

Mark: it was hurting your little neck, was it?

Andy: Well, also I'm not looking in the direction of the camera. So rather than meet their demise, the Muyska would transform into eagles mid-fall and soar into the skies. That was what they thought was going to happen. I think that's what they thought was going to happen after chewing on the old peyote.

Mark: That's a good point, we don't like that. That's the story. ⁓

Andy: According to another Muisc myth, Bogota was flooded but the gods created a patch and formed the waterfall to save people from dying in the flood, making the falls a doubly important site of salvation. The area was ripe with flora and fauna until the 20th century when dams and electricity began to impact the environment. At the site of these significant myths, the mansion of Tequendama Falls was constructed in San Antonio del Tequendama in 1923 during the presidency of Pedro Nel Ospina. The building's high windows and French architecture was designed by architect Carlos Arturo Tapias, and it reflected the joyful aesthetic of the roaring 1920s.

Mark: They were roaring, weren't they?

Andy: dimension they were. and it died choked in 1929. The mansion was the scene of many lavish parties throughout the decade. In 1928, an addition was built and the mansion was converted into a hotel. Unfortunately, business dropped off in the 30s due to the Great Depression and would never again reach the dizzying heights that it cleared in 1929. In July 1950, the plans were to turn the hotel into an 18-storey attraction, and that came and went. Eventually, the original foundation became too damaged to operate, largely due to the Bogota River's horrific contamination. By the 1990s, interest waned, businesses suffered, and the Hotel de Salto closed for good. During this period the empty building saw curious ghost hunters and destitute squatters enter its rooms. Throughout the decades, numerous people leapt in their deaths at the hotel. Combined with the indigenous lore surrounding the falls, it's no wonder that many believe that the hotel and the falls are haunted to this day. Some even say the Muiska cursed the land where the hotel was built. And those tragic deaths weren't the only thing keeping visitors up at night. Hotel guests claimed to see apparitions inside the hotel and outside by the falls. Some even said they heard quiet voices conversing in a strange language. Possibly the spirits of Muiska people. According to another account, the dark energy of the falls drove a hotel guest to brutally murder a beautiful young socialite in one of the rooms, splattering the walls with her blood. And they say her vengeful spirit can be seen peering from the windows of the room where she died. While the hotel stood empty, towels of a loud cry emanating from within the building at night strengthened disbelief that the place is haunted. Additionally, the road leading up to the building has been the site of numerous mudslides and accidents, which some believed were a sign of further paranormal activity. Alleged hauntings aside, when Hotel de Salto was still open for business, guests often found themselves involved in police investigations of deaths at falls, which hurt the hotel's reputation as well. According to Express, tourists are still warned to stay close to the property at night, lest they fall off the edge by mistake. And if you see a picture of the hotel, you'll see what they mean. quite precariously perched. Some visitors have even fallen off the balcony, but then the British are really good at that. Do you know how many stories there are in newspapers about British people falling off balconies in Spain and Thailand and everywhere else? But it's not easy, you know, to fall off a balcony.

Mark: What? Yeah, that's because they're drunk. It is if you're playing up and suddenly you start dancing on top of the railings.

Andy: I've never been that drunk mate.

Mark: Yeah, well some people do get that drunk. So, sorry, are we going to this place? Is this on the now bucket list? Hotel Desento?

Andy: and Well, it's not a hotel anymore, unfortunately. To top it all off, the foul smelling water in the heavily polluted Bogota River below only reinforces the sense that something is very wrong with the hotel. The water in this river is so toxic that in some places no life can survive. Now I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if that's down to the cocaine trade.

Mark: ⁓ my god, that's... Why are there toxic byproducts of the cocaine business?

Andy: A lot of chemicals used in the process, apparently, allegedly, I don't know. But ⁓ yeah, deep in the jungles of Columbia where it's all processed, they've got to dump their shit somewhere.

Mark: I mean, that really is quite worrying. I don't know the situation. I don't know how close the river is to a major city, but you always imagine sort of South America, jungle, rivers, vast rivers teeming with alligators and piranha fish and such like, and you're saying that this enormous river is actually dead in places.

Andy: However, things finally started to change for the hotel in 2011, when an effort to turn the seemingly doomed building around began. So the National University of Columbia's Institute of Natural Sciences and the Ecological Farm Foundation of Porvinia came together for restoration efforts to restore the famed hotel, but rather return the inn to its former glory as a vacation spot.

Mark: ⁓ good.

Andy: The goal was to build a cultural hub. As such, the Tequendama Falls Museum of Biodiversity and Culture, fucking they come up with some names, snappy as hell, has since become a symbol of the country's heritage as well as a prime example of environmental pride. In 2013, the former mansion officially opened for its very first exhibit. The debut gala, and you'll love the name of this debut gala, Caverns, Ecosystems of the Subterranean World.

Mark: ⁓ yes, you're right.

Andy: showcase the region's biodiversity and marvels of underwater ecology, which is mostly dead.

Mark: and now you're going to tell me but the opening gala event was marred by the appearance of...

Andy: Lady in White.

Mark: Exactly. Surely you're going to tell me that. I mean this is obviously the culmination of the story that the ghost appeared on the gala night of reopening of the mansion with a chain.

Andy: Today. Today curious visitors can tour the hotel but only during business hours which end at 5pm, well before the spirits come out to play.

Mark: I mean, what a crock. We need to post a photograph. It's quite a dramatic looking building, I have to say.

Andy: What do you mean? It is fantastic building. Moon.

Mark: I don't like the idea of that Bogota River though.

Andy: Yeah, I wouldn't go skinny dipping there after a good night on the source.

Mark: No, can you imagine your skin starts to burn and you realize that? Yeah.

Andy: could be about you. Well, now we're going to LA and this is, this is a hotel that I think I might actually do an episode with Richard on because this is a very famous hotel. Oh, there's been a lot.

Mark: What, so much goes on there? Have you ever been to LA?

Andy: Nestled. I haven't actually I've never been to California.

Mark: I've been to California, I've been to LA airport, but I've never been to Los Angeles. I've been to San Francisco.

Andy: ⁓ you would go there, wouldn't you? Did you hang about the public toilets?

Mark: I went there with my wife.

Andy: like like George Michael. Hi officer.

Mark: Did he? Was George Michael, what do you call it, done for whatever it's called? Lude behavior.

Andy: touching a policeman's willy. ⁓

Mark: I thought that was in England he was done for that.

Andy: No, that was that was in the States.

Mark: Well, well, can't... What? Is that even illegal? Actually, I suppose it is illegal. Soliciting for sex in a public loo. Yeah.

Andy: Ooh. So I just had a message. ⁓ touching a policeman's willy. Yeah, of course it's illegal. I mean, he had, I don't, I can't see, I guess the guy wasn't in uniform. Cause I don't think even George Michael would have been that stupid.

Mark: ⁓ what do mean? The guy literally turned out to be a policeman.

Andy: Yes, he was a policeman.

Mark: Or maybe he was a gay policeman and they were consenting adults?

Andy: Well if he was a gay policeman it would never have made the newspapers would it?

Mark: you just don't know.

Andy: It would have happened and nobody would have said a word.

Mark: So what hotel are you talking about?

Andy: Anyway, we're talking about the hotel Cecil, the Cecil Hotel. And this is nestled in the busy streets of downtown LA. And it is one of the most infamous buildings in horror lore, the Cecil Hotel. Since it was built in 1924, the Cecil Hotel has been plagued by unfortunate and mysterious circumstances that have given it a perhaps...

Mark: Never heard of

Andy: unparalleled reputation for the macabre. At least 16 different murders, suicides and unexplained paranormal events have taken place at the hotel, and it even served as the temporary home of some of America's most notorious serial killers. So the Cecil Hotel, built in 1924 by hotelier William Banks Hammer. It was supposed

Mark: And did he go bankrupt soon afterwards?

Andy: well.

Mark: If you built a hotel in 1924, your timing couldn't have been much worse.

Andy: It cost them a million bucks. It was supposed to be a destination hotel for international businessmen and social elites. And Hannah spent $1 million on the 700 room, Beaux Arts style hotel, complete with a marble lobby, stained glass windows, palm trees, and an opulent staircase. It was actually quite a fabulous entryway. But Hannah would come to regret his investment. Just two years after the Cecil Hotel opened, the world was course thrown into the Great Depression, and LA was not immune to the economic collapse. Soon enough, the area surrounding the hotel would be dubbed Skid Row and become home to thousands of homeless people. The once beautiful hotel soon gained a reputation as a meeting place for junkies, runaways and criminals. Worse yet, the Cecil Hotel ultimately earned a reputation for violence and death. In the 30s alone, the Cecil Hotel was home to at least six reported suicides. A few residents ingested poison while others shot themselves, slit their own throats. That sounds a bit dodgy. or jumped out of their bedroom windows. In 1934, for example, Army Sergeant Louis D. Borden slashed his throat with a razor. Less than four years later, Roy Thompson of the Marine Corps jumped from the Cecil Hotel and was found on the skylight of a neighbouring building. And the next few decades saw more violent deaths. In September 1944, 19-year-old Dorothy Jean Purcell awoke in the middle of the night with stomach pains while she was staying at the Cecil with Ben Levine 38. She went to the bathroom so as not to disturb a sleeping Levine and, to her complete shock, gave birth to a baby boy. She didn't even know that she was pregnant. Mistakingly thinking that the newborn was dead, Purcell threw her live baby out the window and onto the roof of the building next door. At the trial, she was found not guilty of murder by reason of insanity and she was admitted to a hospital for psychiatric treatment. In 1962, 65 year old George Galeen

Mark: I hope these list of occurrences aren't simply going to get worse and worse.

Andy: We're going to get to the hauntings.

Mark: Come on, let's get there. I don't want to go through all these tragic events.

Andy: In 1962, been such a girl. 65 year old George Giannini was walking by the Cecil with his hands in his pocket when he was crushed to death by a falling woman. Pauline Orton, 27, jumped from a ninth floor window after an argument with her estranged husband Dewey. Jumped.

Mark: Crushed to death by a falling woman.

Andy: Her fall killed both her and Giannini instantly. I would investigate that one rather more thoroughly than just accept his word that she jumped out the window halfway through a row.

Mark: Can you imagine? Can you imagine what it was like in the States after the Great Depression or during the Great Depression? After the Wall Street crash.

Andy: Pretty much what it is today, I would imagine.

Mark: It's funny you say that. I don't know whether you don't. The thing is, you just don't know what to believe about what you see about somewhere like L.A. I mean, I'm sure there are areas where it is tent city with hundreds of homeless people just strung out on whatever the drug is they're taking these days, but it can't be representative.

Andy: I think Las Vegas has the biggest underground homeless population in the States, as far as I know, where there are literally thousands of people, yeah, thousands of people living in the shadow of the city of lights.

Mark: Las Vegas. I wonder why, I mean the climate's obviously reasonably good in Vegas, but it's pretty damn hot and to escape from the heat is pretty difficult.

Andy: I guess it's, I don't know if it's easy pickings with the tourists. Perhaps to get some hang out.

Mark: How many homeless people do you have in Schlefftjör?

Andy: ⁓ well, there's me.

Mark: Well you're not homeless.

Andy: Not yet.

Mark: I mean, there's not many homeless people. In Stockholm, you do get the odd homeless person.

Andy: You do in Stockholm, but you can't have homeless people here because they just die in the winter.

Mark: Well, no, they never get there because they're taken care of basically. And when I say taken care of, I mean, actually, a caring hand extends to find some accommodation for them. Can you imagine living in a country where there are literally, I wonder how many homeless people there are in America? Tens of thousands, I would imagine. Pretty frightening thought. Anyway, so this Cecil Hotel, why did we get onto the homeless thing? The last one I heard this poor woman throwing herself out the building and killing Giovanni or whatever his name was. Giannini.

Andy: Giannini. The police, when they arrived, first thought that those two had jumped together in some kind of suicide pact. But they reconsidered that when they found that Giannini was still wearing his shoes. If he had jumped, his shoes would have fallen off mid-flight. That's how fast you go. That's how fast you go. The air rushing into your shoes would force them off your feet.

Mark: Why? You mean from floor nine, there's enough time for your shoes to fall off?

Andy: Yeah. There's enough time to think what the fuck have I just done? It's not my, not my method.

Mark: Yes, I- No, no, you're right. That's a pretty dramatic end.

Andy: So in light of the suicides, mishaps, and murders, Angelino's promptly dubbed the Cecil the most haunted hotel in Los Angeles. And while tragic calamities and suicide have contributed heavily to the hotel's body count, the Cecil Hotel has also served as a temporary home for some of the grisliest murderers in American history. In the mid-

Mark: Dumb. Dunner. What was his name? The chemical bath fellow.

Andy: Dumbass.

Mark: Dharma. Did he stay there?

Andy: Jeffrey Dahmer. No, but in the mid-80s, Richard Ramirez, murderer of 13 people and known worldwide as the Night Stalker, lived in a room on the top floor of the hotel during much of his horrific killing spree. After killing someone, he would throw his bloody clothes into the Cecil Hotel's dumpster and saunter into the hotel lobby, either completely naked or just in his underwear, none of which would have raised an eyebrow, since the Cecil in the 1980s was total unmitigated chaos.

Mark: So what do you mean it was sort of like a hobo hotel at that stage?

Andy: At the time. It was a DOS house. It was basically a DOS house. At the time, ⁓ Ramirez was able to stay there for a mere $14 a night. And with corpses of junkies reportedly found in the alleys near the hotel, and sometimes even in the hallways, Ramirez's blood soaked lifestyle surely would

Mark: In like...

Andy: barely raise an eyebrow at the Cecil.

Mark: This is in our lifetime.

Andy: Yes, this is in the 80s. In 1991, Austrian serial killer, Jack Unterweger, who strangled prostitutes with their own bras, also called the hotel home. Rumour has it that he chose that hotel because of its connection to Ramirez. And because the area around the Cecil Hotel was popular with prostitutes, Unterweger stalked these environs time and time again in search of victims. One prostitute he is believed to have killed vanished right down the street from the hotel while Unterweger even claimed to have dated the hotel's receptionist. And while some of the episodes of violence in and around the Cecil Hotel are attributable to known serial killers, some murders have remained unsolved. To pick one of many, a local woman known around the area named Goldie Osgood was found dead in her ransacked room at the Cecil. She had been raped before suffering a fatal stabbing and beating. Though one suspect was found walking around with bloodstained clothing nearby, He was later cleared and her killer was never convicted. He must have just killed another one. Another instance of disturbing violence at the Cecil that had gone unresolved. One more grimly noteworthy guest of the hotel was Elizabeth Short, who was a victim. became known as the Black Dahlia after her 1947 murder in LA. I did an episode on her with Richard. I won't go into too many details because you won't like it. But it was known that She stayed at the hotel just before her mutilation, and it was a mutilation, which remains unresolved.

Mark: ⁓ So is this, you call it a hotel, is it still in business this hotel?

Andy: We'll get to the end of the story. It still exists, I believe.

Mark: Does it still exist?

Andy: Bye.

Mark: Is it part of he who shall remain unnamed portfolio?

Andy: Ugh, think they're all like that.

Mark: Can you imagine? Can you imagine the Cecil Hotel by...

Andy: The Cecil Towers.

Mark: Exactly. ⁓

Andy: Such stories of violence are not simply a thing of the past. Decades after Short, Elizabeth, one of the most mysterious deaths ever to take place at the Cecil Hotel happened as recently as 2013. And ⁓ this is another really weird one. In 2013, Canadian college student Alyssa Lam was found dead inside the water tank on the roof of the hotel. three weeks after she went missing. Her naked corpse was found after hotel guests had complained of bad water pressure and a funny taste to the water. Though authorities ruled her death an accidental drowning, critics believed otherwise.

Mark: What?

Andy: Before her death, surveillance cameras caught Lam acting strangely in an elevator, sometimes appearing to yell at someone out of view, as well as apparently attempting to hide from someone while pressing multiple elevator buttons and waving her arms erratically. Although the video surfaced publicly, many people began to believe that the rumours of the hotel being haunted might be true. Horror aficionados began drawing parallels between the Black Dahlia murders and Lamb's disappearance, pointing out that both women were in their 20s, traveling alone from LA to San Diego, last seen at the Cecil Hotel, and were missing for several days before their bodies were found. Thin, though these connections may sound, the hotel has nevertheless developed a reputation for horror that defines its legacy to this very day. Now the Cecil Hotel is still around. The last body count was found at the Cecil in 2015, a man who reportedly committed suicide. And ghost stories and rumours of the hotel's haunting swelled once more. The hotel even subsequently served as the chilling inspiration for a season of American horror story about a hotel

Mark: How do you spell Cecil? Is it C E?

Andy: C-E-C-I-L. ⁓

Mark: C-E-C, do know what I'm doing?

Andy: You're writing S.

Mark: I'm going to see Hotel Cecil, Georgia, ⁓ no, no, it doesn't come up. I was going onto bookings.com to see if I could book a room in this place.

Andy: Cecil Hotel. No, you can, you can, but it's now called Stay on Main. So it featured on American Horror Story about a hotel.

Mark: ⁓ actually, Cecil Hotel Main Street, Los Angeles. It is here. Cecil Hotel Main Street, Los Angeles.

Andy: Yes, but it's called Stay On Main now. Can I finish my sentence?

Mark: Let's see. Carry on. 15 % rebut at the moment.

Andy: So the American Horror Stories, ⁓ my God. which is about a hotel that's home to unimaginable murder and mayhem. But in 2011, the Cecil attempted to shake off its macabre history by rebranding itself as the Stay on Main. And as a hostel, it's $75 a night budget hotel for tourists. Several years later, New York City developers signed a 99-year lease. and began renovating the building to include an upscale boutique hotel and hundreds of fully furnished micro units in keeping with the surging co-living craze. Perhaps with enough renovations, Cecil Hotel can finally shake its reputation for all things bloody and eerie that has defined the ill-fated building for the better part of a century.

Mark: I wonder what the area around it is like. I don't know much about how bad is downtown LA these days.

Andy: ⁓ it's probably been re-gentrified by now.

Mark: I was going to say gentrified.

Andy: Now, do you remember the film? Do you remember the film with Jack Nicholson, The Shining?

Mark: at market apartments. ⁓ yes, I do. With, can't remember her name, but... ⁓

Andy: Well... That was the famous Overlook Hotel. And that was the setting for the madness and horror that make up both the novel and the film version of The Shining. And it might seem to be too terrifying to be real, but it was actually based on an actual place. Back in 1974,

Mark: Yeah, well the hotel was real, but the actual events... It was a real hotel.

Andy: The events came from Stephen King.

Mark: Hmm.

Andy: And was in 1974 when he wasn't as famous as he is today. But he and his wife spent a night at the Stanley Hotel in Estes Park, Colorado, at the foot of the Rockies. With the winter barrage of snow and cold looming, the hotel was about to close for the season, leaving King and his wife as its sole guests. And after King ate in a grand but empty dining room with the chairs up on every table except his own, And then he walked through the seemingly endless empty hallways. The new novel idea began to slowly take shape in his mind. Later that night, King had a terrifying dream about his son being chased through the hotel's halls by a fire hose. And as soon as he woke up, he knew that he had to write. I got up, lit a cigarette, sat in the chair, looking out the window at the Rockies, King said. And by the time the cigarette was done, I had the bones of the book firmly set in my mind. And that book, The Shining, introduced the Stanley Hotel to an entirely new generation. Soon, this faded remnant of the early 20th century high life was reborn as The Shining Hotel. while the 1980 film version

Mark: I think Freud would have a few words to say about Stephen King being chased or his son being chased around the hotel with a fire hose. That is a bit dodgy, isn't it?

Andy: I'd be looking at the male members of the family rather closely.

Mark: God, dear.

Andy: While the 1980 film version was widely regarded as one of history's best horror movies and still watchable today, ⁓ it used Oregon's Timberline Lodge for its overlook hotel exteriors and took inspiration from the design of California's Anwanhee Hotel. The Stanley holds the central claim to being the real life shining hotel. And it wasn't always considered the stuff of horror legends. It was first constructed in 1909 by a wealthy entrepreneur. He was a little bit more foresighted than the other two hotel builders.

Mark: Yeah, he was 20 years earlier.

Andy: Yeah. ⁓ A chap called Freeland Oscar or F.O. Stanley. The resort was meant to be a luxurious retreat for moneyed travelers long before it became The Shining Hotel. It boasted a casino, a trap shooting range, a billiard room, a stunning veranda, a grand staircase and even an airfield. The hotel drew in plenty of Stanley's wealthy friends from the East Coast and elsewhere. But the resort also attracted several guests who were deemed unsuitable by Stanley. The high society image of the Stanley Hotel was so important to its founder that he would personally sit in the lobby and turn potential customers away if he didn't approve of their appearance.

Mark: I hate to think on what basis he turned people away, but I can hazard a guess.

Andy: No monsters. Sorry love. Sorry love, no monsters. You're right, you're right, you're a monster.

Mark: No jeans, no tarts.

Andy: If, yeah, he even did this during World War I when the hotel and the tourism industry as a whole were suffering. Still, it seemed as though Stanley believed that his methods paid off. The hotel ended up hosting some of the world's most prestigious travelers, such as US President Theodore Roosevelt and Emperor Hirohito of Japan, who was a god. Don't forget.

Mark: supposedly.

Andy: But after Stanley died in 1940, the hotel's glorious image began to fade. By the time Stephen King visited the Stanley, you have to wait till it's finished.

Mark: ⁓ How do you block a number? keep getting calls from Denmark leaving me messages I'm sorry I missed you today

Andy: They're not actually real.

Mark: Anyway, sorry, carry on.

Andy: By the time Stephen King visited the Stanley Hotel in 74, the resort was struggling to attract tourists. But when his famous novel was published just a few years later, and new management moved into the resort, people soon became interested in staying at the real life Overlook Hotel. Again, now known as one of America's most notorious haunted places, even though technically not haunted at all.

Mark: So why does that feature?

Andy: Those are 1980s. Well, they capitalised.

Mark: We're talking about haunted hotels.

Andy: Well, I thought it was an interesting backstory to this one. Stephen King is one of my, not my favourite authors, but I think I've probably read 98 % of everything he's ever written. So although the film, The Shining, wasn't filmed at the Stanley, the exterior shots in the movie, as I said, were done at Timberline Lodge and the interior scenes were done at a film studio. But word quickly spread about the Shining Hotel that had inspired King to write his book. So naturally, horror enthusiasts were eager to explore room 217 of the real-life Overlook Hotel, the room that King had stayed in during his visit and the one that was haunted in his novel. According to the hotel's website, That's still one of the most requested rooms to this day. But new hotel guests are also delighted to hear that King was far from the only person who had an unsettling experience at the Stanley and the other rooms were in fact potentially haunted. From claims about the spirit of F.O. Stanley roaming his billiard room, monsta, monsta. to allegations of a ghostly thief stealing guests' belongings in Room 401, the Shining Hotel's widely rumoured to be a hotbed of paranormal activity and real ghost stories, so it's little wonder why it remains a top destination for ghost hunters today.

Mark: So, the only experience that Stephen King had in this room was this somewhat Freudian dream about a fire hose. That was the unsettling experience that Stephen King experienced. He had a dream.

Andy: ⁓ Well, that led him to write one of the most terrifying stories of the 1900s.

Mark: If I had been the hotel management, what I would have done is I would have created 50 room 2107s.

Andy: ⁓ you would have gone full scam.

Mark: Excel, yes, that happens to be free tonight. 2107, yes, you can stay there.

Andy: Yet, luckily enough, 217 is free this very evening.

Mark: You've suddenly gone dark.

Andy: Or, or room 217 is taken but for a little consideration I'll chuck the people out of it and let you have it instead.

Mark: Exactly. You've gone all dark, Andy. What's happened to your lighting?

Andy: no, I'm still exactly the same to me. You're a bit blurry on my end.

Mark: Alright. I beg your pardon.

Andy: But anyway, that brings us to the end of this haunted hotels episode.

Mark: So that was really two and a half haunted hotels. The first two genuinely could be haunted, but the latter one absolutely not. That is just a scammy haunt.

Andy: It's really difficult to find a convincing haunting. It's really difficult.

Mark: Well, should I suggest an explanation for that?

Andy: You can try but there are ghosts, they exist.

Mark: Alright, so when you see programs like Ghost Hunters. Not the film I'm talking about.

Andy: ⁓ fuck off that's just bollocks that's someone going someone that's someone going. What did you hear that?

Mark: Has there ever been a ghost hunter program and they must be all around the world where people think, ⁓ I know we'll go to this haunted hotel. Has there ever been a single instance where they've actually seen a ghost? No.

Andy: No, but they've had a temperature drop of nearly one degree. And that curtain just moved. And we didn't get it on camera because the camera was looking at the door. Move the camera to the curtain. ⁓ my God, the door just opened. Move the camera back.

Mark: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I mean, you know, I'm not...

Andy: No, it's a trap. Most of those programs are just made for idiot viewing. Unfortunately.

Mark: But wasn't that a thing in England? mean, I think there was a program called Ghost Hunters or something.

Andy: Yeah, I'm sure they've had...

Mark: where they actually went in... and I've told you actually that I've stayed in a haunted house.

Andy: Yes, yes, a haunted country house.

Mark: A haunted country house where the parents of my girlfriend actually insisted on staying in a caravan in the drive to avoid staying in the house because they had seen her walking down the main staircase.

Andy: What? Why were they so scared? I mean, unless ⁓ she came down the stairs with a knife.

Mark: What of witnessing an aberration? Well, I don't think a ghost has ever killed anybody. I might have killed them by frightening to death.

Andy: ⁓ but if they had, if they had, you would never know about it.

Mark: Why?

Andy: Police are always going to say suicide or murder. Not a ghost got him. What?

Mark: even if they've got a knife sticking out of their heart with four other stab wounds stabbed in the back of the head.

Andy: Well then it's murder, by person or persons unknown. You can't pin it on a ghost can you, that's not going to stand up in court.

Mark: So of the hotels that we've mentioned today, what's at the top of the list to try and visit?

Andy: ⁓ I think the Cecil. But you're taking your life in your hands by going to there. I think the one in Bogota would be ⁓ the best experience, but the water puts me off.

Mark: Yeah, because you'd be tempted to jump in, wouldn't you?

Andy: No, I'd... Yeah. Yeah, I probably would, which would be a bad move. But also, it looks as though it's going to fall off into the falls.

Mark: Yes, I'd be worried about the structural integrity of the building actually. There might be quite a few ghosts emanating from the building if it all collapsed into the waterfall.

Andy: But still, quite interesting, quite interesting stuff.

Mark: Anyway, well done, Andy. Yes, haunted hotels, nearly.

Andy: Even if we didn't pin down a ghost.

Mark: We didn't. All right. Yes. And we actually survived a whole episode without mentioning Mr. T.

Andy: Well, I hope you enjoyed it at home. Yes, but you almost did it there. Try not to ruin it now. So join us again next week. And if you're a Patreon, you can join us on Wednesday. And if you're not Patreon, why not? There's so many more episodes out there. Have yourselves a great week. We'll see you same time, same place. Don't do anything I wouldn't do, which leaves you wide open to do basically anything you want.

Mark: Well. Yep, very good. Cheerio.

Andy: So bye for now.