kim: Hello, I'm Kimberly Powell and this is Showbiz Mums, a podcast about mums working in theatre and how they juggle the chaos of parenting plus an eight-show week. We'll cover birth stories, pregnancy and postpartum in the theatre industry and discuss how to maintain a career whilst having kids, or at least trying to. We'll also open up the conversation of job sharing and why that can be beneficial. So join me as we speak to some amazing theatre parents and get some advice on this pretty niche subject matter, but something I'm really passionate about.

Kim: Big thanks to Jackie there. What a great chat and what a great career. I failed to mention Jackie's also a performance coach at Prep Your Rep and I meant to ask her about it but I got I think I got too excited when we were chatting but I know that like a lot of parents and actually actors in general she's got her fingers in lots of different pies and is always on the go whether it's teaching or performing or obviously parenting but thanks again for listening and next episode we're on to episode 10 of this series so ⁓ well genuinely thanks to anyone that's listening and ⁓ has listened to few I'm really enjoying the conversations even though I'm still wondering how this all came about. I was going into work one day and I was like ⁓ I fancy doing a podcast about mums ⁓ the theatre and then I said it out loud in the dressing room and you know when you've said it out loud you kind of have to do it. And then I was like alright I've got to see this through now ⁓ I look like an idiot. ⁓ I didn't expect that I actually would. So ⁓ 10 next week. Today I'm speaking Jackie Hughes. Jackie's credits include Mary Poppins, Groundhog Day, Clueless the musical, The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry. ⁓ She played Elphaba Wicked, as you do, and she's currently eating marmalade sandwiches eight times a week in Paddington in the West End. ⁓ Jackie has two and we actually met years ago because we were both singing at a mutual friend's wedding up in Scotland ⁓ and proceeded to a fantastic night full of great drinks and an even better Kayleigh. ⁓ Thank you for joining me and thanks for being here. you're enjoying them It's just nice to I've been following her career with admiration and I can't wait to talk to her about how she makes the juggle work for her and her family. So, hi Jackie, how you doing? Yeah, good thank you, not too bad. So are you still in rehearsals now? Or is it all done?

Jax: I'm good, how are you? yes, we're still sort of doing lots of cover rehearsals and various for different people in the show. ⁓ So been full on. It's been sort of six and a half months now since we started. ⁓ Yeah, been ⁓ an process, of course, to start something completely new ⁓ and so anticipated ⁓ by ⁓ But yeah, it's a lot of hard work. ⁓

Kim: have chats and see how everyone's making work. you next week. ⁓ wow.

Jax: which is amazing but extremely tiring, with two kids.

Kim: extremely tiring. Well, yeah, sure, ⁓ done quite a few ⁓ original creative workshops and then gone in, haven't you?

Jax: well ⁓ did the Unleavened Pilgrimage of Harold Fry last year. ⁓ didn't do the workshop but I managed to kind of sneak in ⁓ ⁓ first outing really, its first pilgrimage ⁓ was really really special and then Paddington so I've sort of managed to get two in the one year which has been lovely. ⁓

Kim: Amazing, really nice. right, so then just take us back. When you were first trying for a baby, were you in a show? Were you working?

Jax: No, so I just came off of the tour of Wicked straight back from Asia and I think by then I was so utterly exhausted. I thought, why not? Let's try for a bit. Maybe that'll make me stop working. But we were very ready. So, yeah, we started trying, gosh, quite quickly as soon as I came back, ⁓ which was like the June, but then we didn't. It took us about six to seven months to fall pregnant with the first, yeah,

Kim: feel like as well doing Elphaba, you probably, there's an element where you're like a kind of reached peak career or it seemed, yeah.

Jax: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well, listen, you know, that was the absolute dream to play Elphaba and to then take her around the world. You know, not many roles for me would sort of, you know, trump that, guess, you know. ⁓ So by then, sort of, know, had anything else happened, it was just a bonus. In terms of career, I was like, no, I'm...

Kim: Beat that. Yeah.

Jax: sort of satisfied and fulfilled with having played that role. Huge tick. And the rest is just a brissy bonus, really, which is lovely. A

Kim: That's that's a really good way of doing it because then you're like, yeah, me and my husband, we had the discussion and you, yeah, go from there.

Jax: Yeah. Yeah, because guess it sort of, you know, it takes you, well, for me, it's, you know, I made the decision that I couldn't really tour again, which of course takes you a huge part of the industry. And it's only really now that I've, well, Chichester, that was, what, 10 weeks. But what was lovely is we had Sunday Mondays off, so it was very family friendly. So it's five working days, the extra money, but I could still be at home three nights a week.

Kim: right.

Jax: ⁓ So it was really manageable actually and of course being a short contract I was like we can do this and we did, we all kind of smashed it, which was great. Yeah. Yeah, ⁓

Kim: Oh, that makes such a difference getting that extra day. Do you prefer doing shorter length contracts than a 12 month?

Jax: Yeah, it's hard. think it sort of changes. After having the boys, I went back into Mary Poppins both times. ⁓ And it was lovely to feel settled, you know, to know that I had that contract. then, of course, Covid struck, so was quite a short contract anyway. ⁓ then with Murray, ⁓ was ⁓ of closing six months later. So ⁓ I then came out and ⁓ contracts seemed more manageable because I could have some time at home. ⁓

Kim: Yeah, sure.

Jax: ⁓ being mum, I mean was still teaching in the evening, but then I could then go and have a bit of me again. And it felt like a nice balance. So this is really the first time since having both boys that I've gone back into a long-term contract. Yeah.

Kim: Wow, okay, yeah. so how was your pregnancy?

Jax: First one was, I mean, know, kind of textbook really until 37 weeks where we discovered that I had gestational diabetes and it was all very, it was quite traumatic from then. I was induced and then it was like a 36 hour labor and then Cooper got stuck on the way out. So that was quite traumatic. He had a bit of shoulder dystocia. He was a big baby. But then fine. And then Murray,

Kim: Mm-mm. ⁓ yeah, that. Yeah.

Jax: Again, of course you have a big baby and they often say the next one's going to be bigger, which he was. So I opted for the C-section, which in turn then the recovery is a bit tougher, isn't it, with the second. So yeah, both very different actually. Murray, I felt kind of from like 30 weeks I really struggled. I wasn't working through either of my pregnancies ⁓ and I really struggled. It took such a toll on my body.

Kim: ⁓ great, okay. Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Jax: And I think because he was such a big baby as well, I was just like, oh, come on, out you get. So he came out at 38 weeks. And he was even bigger than Cooper at full term. So, well, he was nine eight at 38 weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, he came out and I was like, oh my God, it's a full blown toddler. Like, fantastic. Yeah. And Cooper was nine seven, so they were at the same size when they were born, really.

Kim: What you get? How much did he weigh? 38, god good job you didn't go so long. ⁓ Yeah, big voice. Yeah. Good Okay. And then postpartum, how did you find recovery? So yeah, two different recoveries as well, I guess.

Jax: Big boys, yeah. Hungry boys. Cooper, course, for me it was the first time you feel like, indestructible really. You sort of run that, you're like, yeah, I can do this. And I went back to work after four months, which was crazy. I went into a Panto schedule. that was crazy. Wouldn't advise that again. But ultimately, it was up in Edinburgh, so my mum and dad could have Cooper mark him up for the weekends.

Kim: No, good for you though.

Jax: ⁓ I was there during the day, he in with me and it felt really manageable. ⁓ And then Murray a completely different recovery I have in the C-section. ⁓ I really struggled actually. And again, trying to that sort of ⁓ dreaded mum guilt with trying to give Cooper the same attention, if not more. ⁓ know, whilst you're kind of nursing this ⁓ baby, but ⁓ took me, I took 10 months.

Kim: Mm-hmm.

Jax: to go back to work after Murray. ⁓ And I was in Poppins at the time, so I was off on maternity. And I have to say, I was so supported. They were incredible. Absolutely. Outstanding. regards to sort of, because it was coming out of COVID, so we didn't quite know how it would work out. they were like, great, we'll just get a maternity cover. ⁓ fantastic. Didn't even think that would be an option, because essentially the contracts had to start again.

Kim: That's amazing to hear.

Jax: So then they were like, yeah, just let us know when you have the baby. We'll start your maternity from then. Fantastic. I didn't have to go in because they'd just started rehearsing. They were like, look, we don't want you coming in. They were honestly fantastic. when we, I then started doing some kit days. I could take the baby in. Marie came in with me and we watched the show, watched rehearsals, had a bit of time backstage and then gradually sort of

Kim: my God, that's amazing.

Jax: went back. ⁓ Very fortunately one of my dear dear friends was resident director and I remember turning up on the first day with coffee in hands and he went, you alright pal? And I went, then he went 20 minutes then come back to me. was like okay.

Kim: Yeah

Jax: You know, you just have that sort of the anticipation of it all and then you get there and you go, ⁓ God, right, can I even do this now? then we went into rehearsals and remember it was me and Louis Gaunt waiting to start and within kind of four days I was back on the show. It was mad. Yeah.

Kim: emotional. That's incredible, incredible. Wow. So what's the age gap between the boys?

Jax: Gosh, ⁓ my god, I can't remember, three years, who knows? Three years.

Kim: Yeah, who knows? Yeah, God, that's okay. That's quite nice then. But like you say, difficult when, pregnant with a toddler and then trying to manage the two of them. I'm finding that hard now, trying to give both the same amount of attention.

Jax: Yeah, it's crazy. And I remember when we came home with Murray and Murray was, know, tiny and Cooper was so like, oh my gosh, my baby brother. And my mum and dad were down helping out whilst Martin went back to work. And Cooper was so, he was quite cheeky to my mum and dad, like go away. Like he was, and I thought, gosh, this is really, he just wanted me like all the time and my attention and no one else could kind of. interfere with that. was really then gradually, of course, you know, sort of accustomed to Murray and he's like, actually, he's pretty cool. He's all right. We'll keep him. I'll keep him. He'll do.

Kim: Yeah, we'll keep him. He can stay. No, we had a similar thing. she wanted was me. And then because ⁓ that first month, my husband got paternity for a month, ⁓ they got really close. And then she almost was like, actually, no, I'm good. Because giving all my energy to the baby. And I was like, ⁓ no, where's she gone? She'd been my shadow for the first two years. And then you're like, ⁓ god. ⁓ Yeah. That was crazy.

Jax: Baby, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a hard, it's a funny old time, isn't it? To sort of, all of a sudden you're having to, not split it, but you do feel like you're torn in kind of both ways, really.

Kim: Yeah, and even now, like, because she's older, I feel like we just go wherever she's got plans and then he just has to come along. And I took him to a class, know, one these music classes the other day and I was like, ⁓ God, good for you. Like, trying to watch him do other things with children his own age. I was like, God, I really need to this more often just to have like an awareness of where he's at.

Jax: Thanks. Yes. Yeah, well, I mean, Murray was the same. He just kind of came along and I actually didn't really do a lot of classes. I did when he was little, essentially we just kind of went where Cooper went and that was that. And he just in the buggy like, yeah, let's go. That's, you know. Like so chill. Yeah. And it's funny, think you sort of, I know with Cooper, I was so hands on and...

Kim: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's good for them though. Yeah. Yeah.

Jax: But with Mary, I was just certainly a bit more chilled. was like, oh, do you know what? We'll get there. You've lost a sock. That's fine. Don't worry about it. We'll find it. And definitely doing a lot more drives to the drive-through at Costa. Honestly. Literally everything. I think they knew me by name.

Kim: Totally. ⁓ Yeah, now it's all good. Yeah. so ⁓ went back around 10 months ⁓ into Mary Poppins and that was eight shows a week. How was your body? ⁓ you feel it or were you alright?

Jax: Yeah. It was weak here. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was alright, think, I think because they kind of came out of rehearsals so, you know, it was genuinely just a show but then of course you've got covers to relearn so I had to then go in and do all that and I, my good friend Amy, she was playing Mrs Banks at the time and she had some time off, she was expecting as well and they said, right Jax, yeah, you're gonna have to learn this and I wasn't previously covering it. I covered it years ago on the UK tour, it was first cover for Mrs Banks. But this was like a new cover that I'd taken on just before Covid struck. So I had to kind of relearn that and I was, I'll never forget, she had some time off so I had tech tact one, tech tact two, and on I went to play Mrs Banks. Yeah, and I was like, but what was so, so lovely was, I mean, you just kind of do it, don't you?

Kim: Yeah, yeah.

Jax: It's more your brain, think, with the tiredness and the brain fog and you think, ⁓ gosh, I don't even know what the words are. But you do. I don't know what just happened. you kind of, ⁓ me, certainly having children, I've had to worry less about that and actually just be rather than, ⁓ don't have time to worry so you end up, you give a much more honest performance, personally. ⁓ But what was so

Kim: Yeah, I don't know what just happened. Yeah.

Jax: was going back to cover it as a mum.

Kim: ⁓ yeah, of course.

Jax: It was so, so, so special and completely unlocked different feelings and emotions. it was really, really special. And I never, ever thought I'd get the chance to do that. So it was really, really special. Yeah.

Kim: ⁓ How lovely, what a great point. God, do you know, I found I even was teaching a workshop, it was last year, but I hadn't taught since having kids. And I just went in, you know, one of these random like three hour things. And I noticed I was so different as a teacher since becoming a mum. it is so different. ⁓ And don't know why, like ⁓ I'm way more compassionate. And it made think, ⁓ God, I was so before, but then you get, you know, you get

Jax: Yeah?

Kim: But I did, you you don't, God, it me think back and I was like, ⁓ geez. Right? ⁓ man. and then you carried on with Mary Poppins.

Jax: Yeah, absolutely. I'm the same, I'm much more, I'm way more fun. Yeah, we carried on until, I went back kind of August time and then we carried on, we finished in the January I think. then, oh gosh, do you know what? It was magic. And I think I had such a long journey with it. I toured with it back in 2014, 15 and I left early to go and play Elphaba. So I never finished it. So I did 10 months, I never finished it and I thought, gosh, I'd love to go back.

Kim: What a lovely show.

Jax: So then when it came around again, ⁓ would you come in to audition? I was like, yes, absolutely. was very fortunate to offer the job again to play the same role that I'd played before. But it was just lovely to go back. And then of course, COVID struck and I thought, I'm never going to finish this show. I'm never going to finish this contract on Poppin'. So finally to finish it was a real sort of full circle. Yeah, it was really special.

Kim: Yeah, full circle, ⁓ brilliant. So as the boys then got older, did you adjust to what you would take? Or I suppose in this industry, just kind of, when an audition comes up, you're just like, you go in, you see what happens.

Jax: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. mean, Poppin's finished on the whatever it is, the Sunday and I had my Groundhog Day audition on the Monday. So we went to, you you go to the party and you think I'll have a few wines. And I was like, no, you know, I'm trying to learn a dimension song. So, you know, it never ends. I went, yeah, I went in and again, really lovely experience with Groundhog Day and was so, so, so lucky to get that job. was, it was magic.

Kim: Wow.

Jax: Again, know, we booked a, well, a family had booked a holiday on a cruise and I had to pull out. So Mark took the boy on a ship and this, you sort of make these decisions thinking, God, am I doing the right thing? You know, but it felt right. And it really was the experience of a lifetime. And of course that mum guilt absolutely gets you when it's good. I, the boys had a great time. We FaceTimed every day. Mark was absolute. super dad, he's, he's, Unreala couldn't do it without him. But it felt right and this job was so special and opened lots of doors and the experience and the learning and to work with the incredible, incredible team that we had was, was absolute gold dust. ⁓

Kim: You've done such amazing jobs, like really cool, just thinking about each one there. going from Elphaba into Mary Poppins into Groundhog and now you're in Paddington. ⁓ that's why it's hard to ⁓ defend the experience sometimes to, particularly to that aren't in the industry. they'll look and they'll say, well, hold on, you've missed this, or you you've missed the cruise or bedtimes or whatever. And you're like, ⁓ I can't explain to you what it's like to be a part of. this life, in this production even.

Jax: Yes, I think, you know, yes, we do miss things, regardless of what you're doing, you're going to miss things. But I think we as performers or creatives, we put so much pressure on ourselves because we love what we do. We absolutely love it and we crave it and we and it fulfills us. And, you know, sometimes we we have to fulfill ourselves to fulfill others. ⁓ And I know that I've had conversations with Cooper now that he's a bit older. And I say, you know, know, Mummy, leaves go to work and he said yeah but you love what you do mummy and ⁓ you make other people happy ⁓ ⁓ the fact that he can see that and I always say you you have to do what you love regardless ⁓ how hard it is ⁓ we have to to make those decisions and but if mummy needs to be home mummy will be home you know that that you are you're all my number one and that that's ⁓ as long as we're think as long as we're transparent with each other ⁓ We all know where each other stands. know, Murray for a while used to think I just, he just thought I worked on the train. He was like, mommy off on the train again. Yeah, Yeah. ⁓ But ⁓ I mean, lovely is that at Paddington, mommy's off to work with Paddington Bear. ⁓

Kim: it. ⁓ it's so inspiring for them to watch you do it, know to

Jax: Yes, they came on Christmas Eve ⁓ and it was magic. They had so many questions and ⁓ just couldn't believe it. was ⁓ really special. ⁓

Kim: Is that the first show they've seen you in?

Jax: Hooper saw me in Poppins when he was three and a half, four, yeah, and he just couldn't believe it, but he sat for three, it was a long show, and he sat for three hours with his goddaddy and granny, and he came back to meet us, and he was just like, gosh, I've had this huge pink costume on, pink wig, know, and he was just like, mommy. And I couldn't believe it, but then he sort of understood, you know, he was like, oh, this is what you do.

Kim: Mm.

Jax: And then Murray came to watch me for the first time in Panto last year in Southampton with diversity and heckled us all the whole way through. It was fantastic. it was great. ⁓

Kim: Incredible.

Jax: yeah, but I mean, you know, don't get me wrong, there are days when I think, oh my God, what am I You know, and it feels impossible, the Mark, I have to say, is so supportive and really takes, you know, obviously has to do all the evenings, five evenings a week. But I think that's it, it's teamwork, isn't it? And you have to compromise and I think we work well with that. And the boys, as I've said, you know, we're so transparent and the boys,

Kim: ⁓ yeah, of course.

Jax: understand as much as they can. But we look forward to holidays and we look forward to our time together. But I think regardless of whether you're working in an office, you know, if I was working in an office, I'd be leaving at six in the morning. So I'd miss the mornings, whereas I can get the mornings with them. also, the holidays, they, you know, like next week's half term, and I know I'll get to spend all my days with them.

Kim: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.

Jax: I don't have to worry about going to work a book in time off work. It's just from three o'clock onwards or whatever. it works. think every family, whatever is thrown your way, you make it work for you and your family.

Kim: Yeah, exactly. you're absolutely right. Once the works, like the routine works for everybody, there's nothing wrong with it.

Jax: Yeah. and when I'm not performing, I'm usually teaching, which again, is I've made it in the evening. So the boys' schedule never changes. It is the same person picking them up on the Monday. I would do the Tuesday. Granny does the Wednesday, Thursday. Do you know what mean? So it's everything is consistent for them. And that was my main thing. you know, I'd be coaching in the evenings or during the day or whatever, but it works for now.

Kim: Right, yeah. Totally.

Jax: might change but at the minute that's working and of course it would change as they get older and else but that's seven and four. ⁓

Kim: How old are they now? ⁓ great, yeah, nice, good. So do you have a career highlight?

Jax: Gosh, mean Elphaba was huge. I think because I'd spent so long with Wicked and worked on a second cover to begin with and then they went off as standby and then to be offered the role was just absolutely life-changing and actually if I'm really honest I can't quite believe it happened. But it did. And it was magic. But I think, I know this sounds really... But I feel so lucky to still be doing what I'm doing being a parent and to still do something that fulfills me and that I feel so passionate about. Despite it being hard, but regardless, everything is hard, know. Every job for me is a highlight and I know that probably sounds really low. But like last year working in Chichester, that was huge. Working at the Old Vic, that was a huge thing. Working on a brand new British musical in London, in the West End. I so very lucky to still have these opportunities ⁓ and investing ⁓ in and in me and ⁓ my you know. I feel so inspired by so many other parents working in performing arts as well. You we have quite a few on Paddington and it's amazing. You feel so supported and watching yourself and so many others just absolutely smashing it out. And having to make these decisions and going, gosh, ⁓ yeah, can make this work. We're going to do it. Let's do it.

Kim: Yeah, well talking of who you're working with, I always remember seeing Victoria Hamilton Barrett in The Heights years ago and she was so heavily pregnant and I remember then, you know, it wasn't even on my radar being pregnant or anything like that and just thinking, oh my, she had that tight red dress and I was like, that is iconic. And yeah, and then I remember thinking, God, I'd love to do a show pregnant and then I did and you know,

Jax: connect. like women ⁓ amazing.

Kim: Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? ⁓ But okay, and do have, there a parenting highlight? This is such a vague question, like but ⁓ is there a moment where you're like, actually, this was, this was a really nice moment.

Jax: Yeah. Yeah. For me, a highlight, like just waking up in the morning and having them running and give you a cuddle or, Mummy! You know, I think that's it. That's the highlight. It's every day. It's just saying, Mummy, I love you. That's it. Yeah, just it's so simple and, you know, watching them play and watching them just, you know, and argue. Not quite the highlight, but it's, you know, just...

Kim: Yeah, all the small things. You

Jax: Yeah, I think just the littlest things of I love you, Mummy. I love you, Daddy. And then feeling safe. That's safe and loved. That's all I want, Yeah.

Kim: That's all you need, yeah, totally. So, I mean, it sounds like you had a really positive experience, particularly in Mary Poppins, but is there anything that you think, ⁓ support-wise, you could get more from the industry, or have there been jobs

Jax: Yeah, it's, I think, as I was saying, the five day week when we were down in Chichester was, that was the ideal for me. You know, having the two days off, three nights. It was, that was the perfect setup. Not ideal having to be away from home. But I think it's more just the pre-rehearsal schedules. So knowing maybe a few weeks in advance what you're going to be doing rather than the week before, because it's for childcare or if, you know, It just gives you a little bit more breathing space. ⁓ But I've never, touch wood so far, been met with any problems really. If I've had, you if the kid's sick and I've had to take a day off, ⁓ I've been very lucky. And I think honesty is, you know, on our part. not hiding it and just go, look, I do have caring responsibilities. I am a mum. ⁓ And I need some time. When we started, Paddington Murray was starting school and I was like, is there any chance I could have just the morning off to, I'll be in. And they were like, yeah, absolutely, no stress. You can't miss these things. So I got the first three mornings of him starting school. I went in a bit later, but everyone has been so accommodating ⁓ and understanding. It's hard with the schedules, show schedules, weekends, but. got friends who work in retail that work weekends. There's no ideal, you just have to make it work.

Kim: And ultimately we're used to it, know, like that's been our setup for a long time. it's, yeah.

Jax: It's no different to the, you know, the boys don't know any different. You know, when I was younger, my dad worked in Israel for three years and I'd only seen him in the school holidays. But that was fine. That was normal. You know, ⁓ as I said, every family is so different and you do what works for you. You know, I know a lot of friends that obviously the job share, which is fantastic if you can make it work. Brilliant. Gosh, how incredible.

Kim: Yeah.

Jax: But I've not experienced that yet.

Kim: Yeah, but you know, you're right. I think the happy medium in a way, because also job share is great, but then, you know, it's half the time, the pay and all that kind of thing, trying to make that work. Whereas, yeah, the five days and the two days off, that's when you're like, you know what, this is.

Jax: It's not there yet. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that would be, that would be absolute luxury. Yeah. ⁓ some companies are doing that, you know, which is fantastic. And also gives it, regardless of whether you have caring responsibilities or not, still gives you as a performer two days to recoup and to rest vocally. But again, know, gosh, I just think it was just so lucky to do.

Kim: really nice, you know? Yeah, great. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Jax: as I said, to still do what we do with these extra bundles, you know, to... So lucky.

Kim: Yeah, so lucky. Great. Well, thank, I mean, it's so nice that you're so positive anyway, but it's so good to hear good stuff ⁓ about the industry and ⁓ your experience and parenting you know, doing it alongside. Because it is, it's amazing.

Jax: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, there are days when we're like, ⁓ my gosh, what are we doing? This is hard and the boys are feeling a bit, you know, bit under the weather. you know, but I'm so lucky and of course the support of grandparents as well. Often when I start a rehearsal process, my mum and dad come down from Scotland and they help, you know, they cook the dinners. They've got my lunch and the boys are fed and the washing's done. you know, it just takes that and Mark's parents as well.

Kim: need to get me some of them.

Jax: Gosh, I'm so lucky and Mark's parents are the same. Everyone kind of chips in. So I feel kind of I'm very lucky to have that support network. Otherwise, I don't think I could make it work. ⁓ But again, it gets easier as the boys get older. They're both in school now. So again, the cost of childcare ⁓ as high because that's ⁓ whole different story. ⁓ That's extortionate.

Kim: Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much. It's so random, but I just feel like it's, I do just like knowing what people do. Do you know what I mean? Like seeing how it works,

Jax: Hello? Hi, she's a habanito. Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's challenging. Yeah, because I mean, everyone is totally different. Totally different. And especially, you know, friends of mine that are both in performing arts, think, my God, how do you make that work? Like, it's incredible. People that do make it work and they're, you know, the choices and loads of dads that I'm working with as well. Like, it's, you know, when you see them, like, God, I've just been swimming this morning. I think, oh, geez, you know, the Brad Spencer as they put on that, oh, rather you than me, you know.

Kim: Mm-mm. Yeah. Yeah

Jax: But yeah, it's amazing and I think, you know, it's people that are managing to do it. Absolute hats off to them. It's a different, it's a whole different beast. Right there. Right there. Nobody's. I will. Thank you.

Kim: for sure. No, brilliant. Thank you so much, Jackie. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Right, have a good night off. There we go. Enjoy.